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Trapped in a Broken System: How to Take Control When Culture Is Working Against You | Tom Bilyeu Q&A (Fan Fav) - Tom Bilyeu's Impact Theory | Wave AI Podcast Notes

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Trapped in a Broken System: How to Take Control When Culture Is Working Against You | Tom Bilyeu Q&A (Fan Fav)

Tom Bilyeu's Impact Theory

Sat Apr 26 2025

Summary

Podcast Summary

Impact Theory with Tom Bilyeu

Episode: Trapped in a Broken System: How to Take Control When Culture Is Working Against You | Tom Bilyeu Q&A (Fan Fav)
Date: April 26, 2025
Host: Tom Bilyeu
Co-host: Allie

Episode Overview

This episode of Impact Theory features a live Q&A with host Tom Bilyeu, focusing on audience-submitted questions around mindset, productivity, habits, culture, and navigating environments that hold you back. Tom brings practical advice on building momentum, setting goals, leveraging behavior, and staying energized—even in the face of systemic or cultural obstacles. The tone is energetic, honest, sometimes playful, and always focused on actionable insights for thriving in a complex world.

Major Themes

Taking control in unsupportive environments and cultures
The power of mindset in overcoming obstacles and achieving goals
Tactical approaches to productivity, focus, and goal setting
The role of habit formation, self-reinforcement, and environment design
Leveraging narrative and community for empowerment

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Momentum, Overthinking, and Avoiding Paralysis

[06:08]

Question: Should you act before you can overthink, a la Mel Robbins’ 5 Second Rule?
Tom: Momentum is key—train yourself to act fast and not fear failure or looking stupid. Overthinking isn’t his Achilles’ heel anymore because he’s developed constructs to keep moving forward.
- Quote: “Momentum matters. And I'm not embarrassed by failure. And I'm never afraid to look stupid.” — Tom [06:26]

2. Energy, Fatigue, and Using Physicality to Boost Mindset

[07:39, 51:53]

Tom: Fatigue can undermine identity and resolve (“Fatigue makes cowards of us all."). Uses physical cues—like standing tall, speaking loudly, and moving energy—to push through tiredness.
- Quote: "What I call pushing your personality. So right now, if you...say ‘hey everybody!’...I do that to become high energy and lower my anxiety.” — Tom [52:28]

3. Supplements, Nootropics, and the Science Skepticism

[09:29, 14:15]

Question: Thoughts on brain supplements like Lion’s Mane?
Tom: Skeptical most legal supplements actually work—if something is effective, it’s regulated. He prefers natural methods (diet, exercise) before layering supplements, and is mindful about potential imbalances.

4. Tackling Multiple Ideas & The Power of Sequencing

[16:35]

Question: How to deal with multiple simultaneous good ideas.
Tom: Do things sequentially—focus is essential. Find the “lead domino” (Tim Ferriss concept): the first task that triggers progress in others.
- Quote: “Getting something over the finish line is the key...Find those things that are the lead dominoes.” — Tom [17:02]

5. Goal Setting Process

[21:26]

Question: Walk-through of Tom’s personal goal setting.
Tom: Always starts with “chasing my bliss” (Joseph Campbell). Find what makes you come alive, even if dismissed as impractical. Work backward from your passion to practical execution, focusing on empowering others and leveraging narrative.
- Quote: “What the world really needs is people who've come alive.” — Tom [22:04]
- On Mindset: “That keystone [of life well lived] is mindset...if you have a mindset that’s empowering... you can do so much more than you would otherwise.” — Tom [24:41]

6. Culture, Friend Groups & Outgrowing Resistance

[31:58, 34:50]

Questions: Friends/colleagues don’t share my mindset; the work culture is fixed or toxic.
Tom: Lead by example, but don’t waste energy on those not ready to change. Sometimes, you must leave environments that are fundamentally opposed to your growth.
- Quote: “Get out while you can. Like, if truly the company has a cultural fixed mindset... it will drag you down.” — Tom [35:08]

7. Belief, Visualization, and Expecting Success

[35:59]

Question: Did you expect Quest Nutrition’s growth?
Tom: Yes, but not that fast. It’s essential to visualize and believe in your future success; it shapes your willingness and persistence to take action.
- Quote: “If you’re able to conceptualize it...and allow yourself to be filled by belief in a thing that other people just think is impossible... that really, really matters.” — Tom [36:12]

8. Gamifying Productive Action & Leveraging Natural Behavior

[46:36]

Question: How to inspire youth and students to take productive action?
Tom: Don’t try to change intrinsic behavior; leverage it (e.g., gamification, collectibles, digital incentives). Empowering behavior must be addictive and rewarding.
- Quote: “Don't try to change behavior, try to leverage it.” — Tom [46:36]

9. The Role of Narrative in Change

[58:09]

Tom: The biggest societal problem is the “pandemic of the mind.” To address grand challenges or empower people, we must “change the metaphor” (Joseph Campbell)—which Tom operationalizes as leveraging narrative, comics, and storytelling to shift mindset at scale.
- Quote: “If you want to change the world, you have to change the metaphor.” — Tom [59:46]

10. Positive & Negative Reinforcement (Self-Discipline)

[63:04]

Question: Using negative reinforcement for behavior change.
Tom: Once you’re fundamentally focused and empowered, targeted negative reinforcement (for failing personal standards) can be powerful—but warns it’s not for everyone and requires self-awareness. Use “bright lines” (strict rules, clear boundaries) for behaviors and rewards.
- Quote: “Once you can effectively do the like praise and punishment, that's when you're gonna get effective.” — Tom [65:12]

11. Constructing Happiness (Instead of Waiting for It)

[71:28]

Question: Is happiness a choice or something you design?
Tom: It’s constructed through habits, rituals, and physical action. Force yourself to smile, express gratitude, and use bodily cues to shift mindset.
- Quote: “There is a connection between the mind and body. When the mind isn't feeling it, you can get to it through the body.” — Tom [71:30]
- On Gratitude Practice: “If you're in a bad mood, force yourself to say three things you're grateful for. But, like, really try to feel the gratitude.” — Tom [71:45]

Memorable Moments & Quotes

Fatigue Makes Cowards of Us All: On how tiredness tests willpower and identity, and how Tom counters it with physical action. [06:36]
Lead Domino: Importance of identifying actions that can trigger a cascade of progress in other areas. [17:02]
Chasing My Bliss: Tom’s foundation for setting major life goals, inspired by Joseph Campbell. [21:26]
On Toxic Culture: “Get out while you can...it will drag you down.” [35:08]
The Matrix Analogy for Mindset: “People don’t understand what the real world is. They don’t realize they're trapped...That’s a mindset.” [58:19]
Change the Metaphor: The need to reframe collective thinking to really shift society. [59:46]
Bright Lines: Tom’s use of strict, clear personal rules for accountability. [69:46]
Constructed Happiness: The simple rituals and shifts—like laughter or gratitude—that create happiness. [71:28]

Timestamps of Key Segments

| Topic | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------------------|----------------| | Show Kickoff / X Prize & Entrepreneurship | 01:05–02:29 | | Momentum and Overcoming Overthinking | 05:55–08:22 | | Supplements Skepticism / Nootropics | 09:29–14:15 | | Sequencing & The Lead Domino | 16:35–19:38 | | Goal Setting & Chasing Bliss | 21:26–29:10 | | Handling Poor Work/Friend Cultures | 31:58–35:47 | | Baked-In Belief & Expectation of Success | 35:59–38:19 | | Reading Habits | 38:22–41:24 | | Gamifying Youth Empowerment | 46:36–51:47 | | Staying Energized: Using Physicality | 51:53–53:47 | | Audiobooks & Focus | 53:58–56:44 | | Narrative as Societal Change | 58:09–62:37 | | Bright Lines, Negative Reinforcement | 63:04–70:42 | | Constructing Happiness | 71:28–73:51 |

Final Notes for Listeners

Takeaway: Focus relentlessly on what energizes and empowers you, set up systems that leverage your own behavior, and use narrative—both internal and external—to change mindset and culture.
Tom’s Energy Ritual: Use ritualized high-energy greetings, gratitude, and physical action to “push your personality” and mood forward.
Constructed Success: Both happiness and success are built deliberately—through belief, systems, “bright lines,” and engineering your environment.

If you want more actionable strategies and to interact with Tom, he encourages engaging on YouTube and other social platforms, noting every thoughtful comment is read and often replied to.

Be legendary.

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Transcript

Tom Bilyeu (0:00)

All right, remember, the machine knows if you're lying. First statement. Carvana will give you a real offer on your car. All online. False. True. Actually, you can sell your car in minutes. False. That's gotta be true again. Carvana will pick up your car from your door. Or you can drop it off at one of their car vending machines.

Allie (0:17)

Sounds too good to be true.

Tom Bilyeu (0:18)

So true. Finally caught on. Nice job. Honesty isn't just their policy, it's their entire model. Sell your car today too, Carvana. Pickup fees may apply. From Curtis, 50 Cent, Jackson, Tommy back. Yeah, I am. And the executive producers of Power. There's levels to this game. Comes the final season of Force, we gonna have to be careful about our next move. We get what we can now and take the rest later. This is gonna be the battle of our life. It's go time.

Allie (0:50)

This is a dangerous life that I.

Tom Bilyeu (0:52)

Choose to be in with you. Force never bet against me because I'm always winning. Premieres November 7th only on Starz and the Starz app. You're listening to the Impact Theory podcast, your source of empowering ideas and actionable techniques from the world's highest achievers. Join host Tom Bilyeu, serial entrepreneur and co founder of the billion dollar brand Quest Nutrition, on a journey to unlock your potential and realize your vision of success. Welcome to Impact Theory. Yeah, let's. Let's get started. So welcome to the party. Here we go. It is early morning, by the way. The reason that we're recording this one at an unusually early time is because of the X Prize, if any of you guys don't know about it. It's a really amazing organization. I'm on the board and they are all about trying to help usher in a new and better future, which is. I love that. So they're not futurists that just sort of dream empty dreams, but it's a group of people that are actually trying to put prizes together to incentivize people to attack some of the world's grandest challenges, from education to cleaning up the ocean to getting us into space. So it's. That's why. And we're flying today to NASA Moffett Field at the NASA Ames Research Center. So I had to wear the NASA T shirt in honor.

Allie (2:18)

So. And for those of us who don't know. Where is that.

Tom Bilyeu (2:22)

Hey. Very good question. That is up north in the Bay Area.

Allie (2:27)

Got it. Cool. That should be a lot of fun.

Tom Bilyeu (2:29)

Tom Bilyeu (6:08)

Let me see, let me interpret that question. So do I. Do I go out of my way to act before I can get caught in a loop of overthinking? Yeah. And I. Look, I think we all have like the thing that we struggle with. For me, overthinking isn't the one I've really, at this point. God, did I used to. Maybe. But I've so trained myself now that momentum matters. And I'm always thinking about momentum and I'm not embarrassed by failure. And I'm never afraid to look stupid. So it's like I don't get stuck in that. Like the thing that messes with me is hot showers. Hot showers, hot showers. Like there, there's this quote. All right, there's this quote. I love. I can't. I don't remember who said it. So forgive me, but fatigue makes cowards of us all. And there is something to when you're just exhausted that all of a sudden like Your identity begins to fray at the edges. Because it's like, I don't know that I can. Yeah, I don't know that I can bear to, like, push forward. So I totally get that quote. And a lot of my identity is about fighting through that. Like, today I found myself in the gym, like, sighing constantly. I just have no energy today. So literally everything that you see me doing now is, like, using all of my constructs to stay high energy, physical things pushing my personality forward, things to overcome the fact that today, for whatever reason, I have no sort of natural energy. I'm having to, like, push it all. So hot showers, like, has that, like, thing for me where I get in the shower and I have all these intentions I'm going to do. I'm going to change the world. It's going to be amazing. And then I get in the shower and I'm like, dude, I just want to stand here so that literally I have to be careful about showers. Because if it weren't, like, if water conservation weren't a thing, I would still be in, like, my first shower ever. Like, I just. It literally. I don't know. It's so weird. It is so comforting. And so it puts me in, like, this super alpha brainwave state. So it's like meditating. It's the same reason that I can't just let myself meditate all day, because it feels so good.

Tom Bilyeu (16:41)

Good. Nice. Sweet. So that's the thing that. Baby, we can't hear you at all. We gotta get you like a mic or something so that you're in our ears so we can tell you're trying to communicate something. But what that would be, we're not entirely sure. Um, so things have to be done sequentially and that, yeah, that's a huge pain. But really focusing on one thing at a time is super critical to getting things over the finish line. And this is something that not enough people think about. Getting something over the finish line is. Is the key. So it gets really boring and there's just an innate boredom to. Especially when I conceptualize it as being an entrepreneur. One of the things that every now and then, just sort of tongue in cheek and for fun I'll document is when we're doing something really boring or stupid. Like this morning, I should have filmed it. Lisa spent like an hour wrangling cables. And it's like, that shit is so dull. But it has to be done. Like, otherwise you. You get right up to it. Like, you've got all these grand ideas. You're going to change the world. You can do this amazing stuff and then cables are the thing that stop you. Right. And so that's one of the things that makes Amazon so amazing, is they get it, like, on a tactical level, just from a. How do you improve the customer experience? Blocking and tackling. Blocking and tackling. Right. It's not sexy, but you've got to do it, the blocking and tackling. So it's the same thing with doing things sequentially. You'll get these great ideas. You want to do them all and you can do them all. There's so much time in life, but you just can't do them all at the same time. So breaking them into. And if they stack and that. Like this concept that Tim Ferriss has of the lead domino, like, finding that what is the. So if you've got these five things that you want to do, the order that you do them in can be really critical. And then I know that in saying that I'm paralyzing people because then they're like, well, I don't know what the order is. And yes, that's one of the things you have to get good at is really identifying what is the sequence in which things are optimally done. And the only way to do that is to stop and think through it and think, okay, what's the lead domino? If I do this, then what are the other things that fall? So take for me, speed reading or the way I do it audible. That was like the lead domino. If I can train myself to assimilate information faster, then I can get a skill faster. And if I can get a skill faster than I can execute faster. So I actually put a lot of early energy into learning to listen to audible books at 3x. Right. So people always think that, like, I'm crazy. And part of me is always hoping, like, someone will say, show me your audible right now. I want to see that it's actually at 3x because it's like, I put so much energy and effort into, like, being able to do that. And people think that, oh, well, you just have some lucky skill. It's not that it like anything. You just push yourself to do it. And I'm absolutely horrific at speed reading. So if I hadn't gotten into audible, I would have really, really had to force myself to do that, because it's a lead domino. So find those things that. That are the lead dominoes and just ask, like, what's gonna. If I do this thing, what's the one that gives me the exponential result on the other stuff?

Tom Bilyeu (21:26)

Okay, so normally it starts with chasing my bliss. So if you have read Joseph Campbell, he talks a lot about this and this is really powerful. And I think that's something people don't think a lot about. There is something in your life, and this is sort of my secret. Not secret, because I've talked a lot about it. But it's like the thing. I don't think people are hearing me. It's like in you right now, I promise, is something that you love to do. And most people dismiss it. And they dismiss it probably because they don't know how to monetize it. They don't think it could be a job. They don't think it can be a business. Their family and friends have told them, you know, that that's silly or stupid or whatever. And so they never realize, like, they're. They literally have a blinder to the fact that there is something in their life that's a raging interest. It may not be quite a passion, but it's like a raging interest. And so I'm always trying to start there. So the example that I always give to people of a raging interest is video games. So a lot of people like to play video games or they like to read or whatever, right? So it's like the thing that they go and do when they're sort of, you know, contracting into themselves. They've had a rough day or whatever, or even. Jesus. Food, like, people really retreat into food, right? And so imagine becoming a food blogger, right? It's like food is that thing that gives you comfort. It's that thing that you think you have this negative relationship with. You've got this really unstable thing where you eat and you feel guilty, whatever. Like, if you could recognize that, okay, this is something that I love. There is a way to find a healthy relationship with this. I'm gonna do that. And then I want to talk about it and I'm gonna, you know, connect with other people. And even if in the beginning you don't know how to make money at it, like, do it because it will make you feel alive, right? And there's a great quote. And again, wow, I'm really forgetting my quotes today of who said it. But it was like, don't worry about what you could be great at. Do the thing that makes you feel most alive. Because what the world really needs is people who've come alive. And so like, if you tap into that thing that makes you feel alive, like that to me is the juice. So turn inward, don't dismiss it, no matter how silly or stupid it might be. Like, what is that thing that makes you feel most alive? So that's always where I'm starting. So when you think about what we were doing at Quest or now what we're doing with Impact Theory, those were both moments where I turned inside and said, okay, what are like, what's me following my bliss? And I'm, I am just, I've. I feel like I am naturally wired to be very empathetic. So I actually enjoy seeing other people win. And while that, I get it from an evolutionary standpoint, because if you know the whole selfish gene theory, it actually goes into, it's not so important that you survive. It is only important that your genes survive, which is why family's so big, which is why tribe is so big. You know that we have this natural resonance with those groups because in them usually are contained. Certainly in families contained our genes. So helping your niece or nephew from a gene perspective is just as useful as protecting yourself and your own offspring. So like, I'm, I just have like, maybe that dialed up a little more than most people. So I really, really enjoy seeing other people succeed. And then on top of that, like, I love my family. And so I saw them really, really struggling with food. And my business partner was really good, is really good at nutrition. And so it was like, wow, this could be a really awesome opportunity for me to help my family. And then I wasn't stupid. I knew that there were, you know, hundreds of millions, maybe a billion or more people that struggled with food in the exact same way that my family does. So it was like, okay, we could do that and I could be really, really passionate about it. And then Impact Theory is, to me, Wellness is this 360 degree thing. It wasn't. The body was just a way to get to the mind for me. And that's really how I think about it. And, you know, so much change for me. So without really belaboring that point, I think that that's relatively clear. Um, so I identify that thing that is Me chasing my bliss, and then I start working backwards and all the way to where you get to the tactical. Right. So if we're going to do impact theory, here's how it went. All right, what do I really want to do? I want to. I want to empower people mentally. I think that there's a massive struggle going on right now with anxiety, depression. The second leading cause of death in the US for young men is suicide. Like, that's just crazy, crazy to me. And it's the number one leading cause of death, death in. In other countries. And so just, you know, looking at that and looking at. Even if, like, somebody's not in danger of committing suicide, like the, you know, the. The question I used to ask at the end of every Inside Quest episode was, what is the definition of a life well lived? Because I'm really obsessed with that concept of, you know, what does it mean to fully express a human life? To. To live it to its fullest, to. And to me, it. It all comes down to mindset. Like, that's it. Like, that's the linchpin. That's the keystone, right? And if you know what a keystone is in a. In like an arch, there's one stone that's actually holding everything together, and that's why it doesn't fall. And if you move that keystone, then literally it would just crumble that one thing. And so, you know, that that is in. In. In a life well lived, that keystone is mindset. And if you have a mindset that's empowering and it's really just these sort of basic beliefs that you choose to believe, then you can do so much more than you would otherwise. So if that's what we're trying to give to the world and we're really trying to help people, what's the no BS answer of how to do that? And I believe that the answer is narrative. And so, okay, if the answer is narrative and we're going to. And it's narrative and it's businesses, right? Because that's the way that we really interact with the world and we create these. Sorry, baby. If you can shut the doors, the sun is like blinding. And I keep trying to use the camera to block. No, no, no. It's coming in through the kitchen. Thank you.

Tom Bilyeu (27:03)

We started, it was still dark. So, yeah, just looking at narrative, looking at the importance of narrative and how you're. How you would execute against that. So it's like, okay, how do you get people to listen to narrative? Because the hardest part is getting that out into the world. And why? Because you're guessing at what's good for people. So, wow, wouldn't it be great if the community, like you could do something that's sort of low barrier to entry and then the community would choose from this massive array and then they would say, these are the five ideas that we like. And then you only have to back those five ideas, right? So that's the idea behind Impact Theory is, okay, we're going to start in written and comics because they're very cheap, but you can imagine a gigantic universe. It's also stuff that people can submit. And so we become the technology layer where. So phase one, build the community, right, then layer technology over it, and then ask the community to submit ideas and then have the community upvote them essentially. And then you get to the very limited number of things that we're going to push and promote. Now the one thing that has to be inherent in all that, and that's why it probably seems like we're talking primarily about mindset and business, because we need that ethos. So going back to the earlier thing that we were talking about with Disney is Disney had a brand and you knew what to expect from a Disney film. We need people to understand what to expect from an Impact Theory company and an Impact Theory piece of content. It needs to be making the world a better place. It needs to be empowering. Like, those are just things that have to be. So I don't want to keep walking through the nitty gritty of it, but that's my process, right? So I'm just walking back and saying, what? What is the no BS answer to how you do this? And if you're like, it's not always going to be pretty. It may not even be something you want to be involved in. But if you're willing to say, that really would work. Like, I know our three step plan will work. I don't know if we can execute against it. I just know that it's real. So because it goes down to what Elon Musk refers to as getting to the physics of a problem. So we've boiled down our grand desire to make sure that.

Tom Bilyeu (32:21)

Every day. Every day. So, I mean, this is where most people live. And I actually get asked the question a lot, like, how do you help somebody who you love get the empowering mindset right when they're resistant? And the answer is, you don't. So don't spend your energy on the people who aren't ready to change yet. And also, the great thing that people say about kids, I don't have kids, but this just sounds like the greatest advice ever to me because it's certainly true of employees. Don't try to tell people what to do, because you can't always count on them to listen, but you can always, always, always count on them to watch. And so if you're leading by example, if you're just doing it all the time, all the time, all the time, like, then it really begins to seep into the culture. And that's why I struggled. As Quest got bigger and bigger, it was like, Jesus, not a lot of people can see what I'm doing. So that becomes difficult because now you only know what I say. But I know that people aren't listening all the time. So that. That's really tricky. And that's why you have to really empower your leadership as you get bigger and bigger, because everyone needs someone that they see every day, all day. They need to see them living what you're talking about versus just repeating it. So, man, live, live the empowering mindset. Your band mates are going to be watching you. Maybe some will, you know, get into that and they'll see, like, that your life is improving. And honestly, you may have to ditch them. Like, I hate to say that, but, dude, you can't let people drag you down. And I can't think of anything more like a family than a band, especially if you guys are touring or anything. So there are people out there that will respond to the mindset, that won't heckle you as you're trying to grow. And here's the thing, if they're heckling you, it's going to slow you down. It may not stop you, but it will slow you down. Just because they're not giving you ideas you're having to come up with all the ideas yourself. So I highly encourage people to be very selective about who they hang out with.

Tom Bilyeu (35:59)

Yes. Just did not expect it to grow that fast. So, you know, going into anything, like, right now, Impact Theory, I believe one day that people are gonna look back on this and be. And be like, whoa. Impact Theory used to be small, but you have to do that. Like, you have to really think about it. You have to allow yourself to see that. So I was at 20th Century Fox last night, and by the way, if you guys aren't following me on Instagram, get on that IG game doing that live. Not live feed, but IG story last night, walking around 20th Century Fox and just thinking, oh, it's going to be really cool when we've got, you know, a future studio is going to look very different. But just the scale, right? So I was walking around thinking about the scale and how we're going to get there and like the making sure that we're taking the right steps. And I thought this moment right here is actually why we're going to get there. Because I'm thinking about it and not like I was believing it, right? So if you're able to conceptualize it and you're able to really allow yourself to be filled by belief in the thing that other people just think that's impossible and understand the only thing that separates most people, I mean, look, there's a high degree of execution. I'm well aware of that. But the real thing that stops people is they never learn how to execute because they don't allow themselves to believe that they could actually do it. And therefore they never get started. And getting started being, being willing to learn from your mistakes, like making it in your mind inevitable that you'll be successful, like, that really, really matters, right? That really matters. And then you just have to take the steps to continue to like, you'll feel it like when you have this vision of inevitability in your mind and you're walking in a path that doesn't feel like it takes you to your inevitable outcome. That's like one of the things that lets you know, like, listen to your instincts and adjust course. But if you don't believe it's inevitable, then walking towards failure feels right because the failure seems inevitable. And so now every step feels in accordance with the inevitability of the failure. And so the steps will actually feel right. Wow, that's like, I'm actually thinking about that in real time. That is what happens is you don't feel out of alignment with the thing that you really believe, which is that you're going to fail. And so it's very easy to keep going. Direction True. Beware of failure.

Tom Bilyeu (42:48)

Look, I. I'm not like, morally opposed to it. Yeah, I'm. I am literally. What am I worried about? It's identity. Right? So I'm the guy that doesn't do drugs. And I really have to think. I really have to think about that. Because if microdosing of psychedelics is as. So here, this is literally the thing that's weighing on my mind. So if microdosing does not make you feel like you're on drugs, which is what I'm told. So you're not like tripping out, Right? But makes it so that you can make connections in your brain, like far flung connections. So it's basically creativity on tap. When you're trying to solve a business problem, what you're looking for is always creativity. You're always looking for that moment of inspiration. So that's one of the reasons the whole idea of thinkitating. So before I heard about microdosing or anything like that, that's why I was thinkitating. So I would meditate and I would realize, like, whoa. I would be stopping myself from thinking about things that were utterly fascinating and that I was making these connections. And so then I started, like, keeping a computer by me because I was like. Like, while I'm meditating, I have, like, these really awesome insights. And so then I thought, I'm, like, in this, you know, where if you set an AC to turn on and off at the same temperature, it's, like, it freaks out. So I felt like that, like, I'm trying to tell myself not to think, to just breathe. But I'm having, like, these amazing thoughts. So I'm like, okay, there's got to be a solution to this. So then I just started sequentially. I would meditate, tell myself, just get into that alpha wave state. And then, okay, now I'm here. Let the, you know, flood begin, and really start thinking through some of these problems. So if that's, like, a minor form of what happens when you're microdosing, then it's like, is it just the stigma? And then if. Yeah, but obviously I have issues with longevity, and I don't like to do things that mess with my brain. And so it just gets. It gets. It gets tough. It gets tough.

Tom Bilyeu (46:36)

Don't try to change behavior, try to leverage it. Right. So that's always where I start. So I would try to back into, like, what do. So, like, the reason that reverse psychology works is one of the things that nature ensures that kids of a certain age do is they rebel. Why? Because they need to establish their own identity. They need to come out from under you. They need to become their own person. I mean, that's, that's otherwise, like, mothers literally have the impulse to hold on, and so that would be it. And the mother would end up having to take care of the child forever. So there is this, you know, one of the results of the hormonal craze that is puberty pushes people to really step out. So you get people trying to leverage that behavior by being reverse psychology. Right. Telling them not to do something that you actually want them to do because they do it by rebelling. I mean, they're too clever for it to really work. But, like, that's the concept. So if you're finding things that they. That they're already doing, like how can you sneak in messaging? So one of the things that. I actually haven't talked about this inside impact theory yet, but I'm beginning to think that one of the ways that we reach youth is by going into the inner cities is my particular fascination, because I think they're the people that are sort of farthest from where they need to get to. But going into the inner cities and leveraging things like the desire to collect. So this whole notion of digital baseball cards, which empowering ideas, so making things only become valuable when they're actually scarce. So there's this whole thing called the blockchain. I won't derail us now, but it's utterly fascinating. The blockchain can actually make Digital things, limited edition. So that's why bitcoin works, because that quarter, I know they're not called quarters, but that bitcoin or whatever, like a real life quarter, it is physical and therefore it is limited. The same is true of a digital bitcoin. It actually is limited. And the way that it all works, A, I don't understand well enough to explain and B, I don't think it matters, but it, you know, that you have something that's limited. So if we could go in knowing that humans and kids especially, really get into collecting things, if we could find a way to incept them with empowering ideas on some sort of collectible card that they can play with, I don't know, we have to figure that out. But leveraging that desire to collect, to have something that other people don't have, but then transmits some empowering ideology. But it, like a lot of this stuff revolves around play gamification. So my short answer as I sort of process this out loud is gamify it. You have to find a way to gamify it. So that's why video games work. Video game companies employ psychologists and neurologists, quite frankly, to. They watch people play video games while they're, while they're in an FMRI machine so that they can see, like, is the game essentially addictive? And so you have to make the empowering behavior addictive so that they're going to come back to it so that they want to do it. Things become addictive because you're leveraging natural impulses, the reward system in the brain. You just have to find a way to do that. If it's not intrinsically rewarding, they're not going to do it. Right. So why am I so obsessed with empowering behavior? Because. Because it feels good. And why do I like to read so much? Because those ideas and in fact, I was thinking about this this morning. Why don't I like working out? Because it takes away from my time to read. And that's really the frustration that I have is it isn't the physical effort, it's that I could be doing something else. And I'm. I feel so constrained in my time in any one day that I resent that working out is so effective at supercharging my mind, right? So it's not intrinsically pleasurable for me in the way that reading is. Like when I come across something in a book that, like, I think, oh my gosh, I can use this, that like, gives me a dopamine rush, right? And I Want to turn the page to get to the next thing that I'm going to be able to use. I don't get that same thing in working out. I have to remind myself that to be where I'm at cognitively, I have to do this because the brain, body connection, it's just a reality. If I didn't believe that, I would never work out. So gamify, huh?

Tom Bilyeu (54:01)

Never. Ever? Oh, I listen to music. Yeah. Yeah. So when people tell me, oh, when I work out, when people tell me that, oh, I listen to podcasts while I work out, I think, how do you work out? Like, I can't. I can't pay attention to two things at once, Man. If people out there can, like, kudos to you. I used to try to practice my Greek while working out because I thought the same thing. I thought, okay, the time is my frustration, so I'll read a book, I'll practice my Greek. And then I found, like, the time between sets would be, like two and three minutes. And then all of a sudden, I was in the gym for two hours, but I was only doing an hour worth of work. And I thought, this is dumb. I'm not getting, like, mentally I'm not fully present, and physically, I'm not fully present. So instead, I just had to accept that when I listen to music, music puts me into a certain, like, energetic state. And then I use that energetic state to do the complimentary thing. Of working out. The only time I read is if I'm doing cardio because I need a mental distraction. And I don't do. I don't usually do hit cardio. So high intensity interval training. I don't normally do that. So I'm doing slow, steady state, boring cardio because. Because it's what I can convince myself to do because I hate cardio. So that's just that. Truth. It's just truth. I'm not saying it's good. I'm just saying it is so that I can get myself to do. Because I allow myself to read. And the greatest example of this is when I was reading Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl, which is about a true story autobiography of Viktor Frankl, who was. I can't ever remember if he was a neuroscientist or a neurosurgeon. He was one of the two, but he survived, I think, five concentration camps, including Auschwitz. And he just details why some people die in a concentration camp, like, just die versus obviously if the. The guards shoot somebody. But he was saying, like, so many people, they would just give up. And he said three days later they'd be dead. And he said you could see it. And it was people that didn't find meaning in their suffering. And so literally, the guy's talking about that. And how can you not, like, crush your cardio? Because it's like, all right, this is easy compared to. Yeah, what this guy went through. And that book, by the way, is just incredible. It's so incredible. I actually, I think it is. It is shame, shame, shame on any high school that lets somebody graduate without them reading Search for Meaning. Literally. Shame.

Tom Bilyeu (59:46)

If you want to change the world, you have to change the metaphor. If you want to change the world. If you want to change the world, you have to change the metaphor. So that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to change the metaphor. So that, to me, is like, the biggest problem that's. We're trying to solve. And then how do you disseminate that ideology? So I am obsessed. There's. I'm literally. I'm trying to make it happen so that I can fly to Denmark. So imagine, literally within. Within 12 minutes of meeting this guy two days ago, I. I just start asking him questions, right? I love asking people questions. So I'm asking him questions, and he, like, starts talking about the things that he's doing, and he. So he works at Lowe's. What do you do at Lowe's? Oh, I'm in the. I forget the exact name of it, but it's. It's essentially their innovation department. Oh, wow, that's cool. Like, what is Lowe's doing from an innovation perspective? Oh, we actually have this narrative innovation department. Stop. What? We have a narrative innovation department. What does that mean? We actually disseminate comic books. Why do you disseminate comic books? I'm literally, like, freaking out, right? I start texting the team here. I'm like, you're never going to believe who I just met. So I'm like, what? You have a comic? I don't understand that. Like, why do you have that? Oh, well, I did my doctoral thesis on how people assess, assimilate, truly assimilate disruptive information. So I'm thinking, okay, wait a second. That's literally, like, what we are about. So I was like, tell me more. And he said, oh, I'm a neuroscientist by training, and I've looked at so many people and their brain in FMRI machines and how they assimilate all this information. And I've come to one very simple, overarching conclusion. The only way that human beings are able to assimilate truly disruptive information is narrow. And I was just like, oh, my God. So within 12 minutes of meeting this guy, I said, I want to come. Like, where is your headquarters. I have to see this. And he's like, denmark? Like, what do you mean, Denmark? I still don't even know why it's in Denmark. But I was like, dude, I'm coming to Denmark. When can I come? Literally, like, next. Can we go next week? And he was like, oh, funny enough, I'm actually going to be there in, like, it was a week and a half. So I said, awesome. I'm pinging the team. Hey, we got to find a way to get me on a flight to Denmark, because I really, really believe to the core of my being that Joseph Campbell was right. The only way to change the world is to change the metaphor. And this guy has the scientific evidence to why that's true, that we assimilate truly disruptive information through narrative. And that's it. Like, that's our Trojan horse. And it comes back to, don't try to change people's behavior. Try to leverage it right. Try to leverage what they're doing. Use that behavior. And that's why. Why are we making all this social content? Because it's what people do. They consume this content. Like, 247 people are on their phones. They are looking at the social content. So I want to incept them. I want to meet them where they are to give them what they need to empower themselves to do what they want to do. Church.

Tom Bilyeu (71:28)

Yeah, for sure. So here it is. It's just like the question about how do you become high energy when you're low energy? There is. And I'm so, so thankful that this is a truth. There is a connection between the mind and the body. And when the mind isn't feeling it, you can get to it through the body. So if I'm not feeling happy, then I will literally force myself to laugh out loud. Like that's a real thing I do that. I don't have to do it as much anymore. Just because you really will come to see how true it is that there's a connection. Think about things you're grateful for. If you're in a bad mood, force yourself to say three things you're grateful for. But, like, really try to feel the gratitude. I do. Too big, and then one little. Or if I'm struggling, if I can't think of big things that I'm grateful for, then think of small things, man. Like, sunshine is awesome. Right? I'm grateful for. I'm literally looking out the window right now and thinking about sunsets and like, or sun rises. Like, I love. That's so beautiful. And I'm grateful that I get to experience that. I think about my wife's smile a lot. I love my. My wife has this, like, smile that eats her whole face. Oh, God. Like, I just can't be in a bed. In fact, right now, it is putting me in a good mood just to tell you guys how much I love that smile that she has. So. And sometimes I drive her nuts because I'm like, I want to take a picture of her. And I'm like, I want your really big smile. And she's like, you know, okay, so I'll do that one. So, you know, just. It is so, like, as I'm explaining this, it is happening to me. Just telling somebody what to do to get in a good mood is putting me in a good mood. So it works. That's what I do. That's how you construct it. Use the body to get to the mind. Use the mind to get to the body. Like, it is this self reinforcing cycle. So the days that my mind is there and my body's not, then, you know, I'm using identity, I'm using that. I push through things narrative. Like, I've got the will. Like, come on, do this. Prove something to myself. And on the days where, like, my mind is just not there, I know that I have this repertoire of tricks of using my body to get there. Smiling, Raise your eyebrows. It works. It works. Do you know that Botox can actually impact depression because they can't frown. How fucking weird is that?