← Tom Bilyeu's Impact Theory
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- [00:00]
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- [01:00]
Tom Bilyeu
I'm Tom Bilyeu and this is Impact Theory. If you're a denizen of the Internet, my guest today needs no introduction. Since departing the Daily Wire, she has established herself as one of the most listened to independent voices in the world. Her name is Candice Owens. She's controversial, but whether you love her or hate her, her popularity makes it clear that a lot of people want to hear what she has to say. For me, I want to understand what makes her believe what she believes. I want to understand the base assumptions that drive her worldview. I felt like I needed more time with this one to really understand her views. But nonetheless, I'm eager to hear what you guys think of my time with Candice Owens.
- [01:42]
Candace Owens
When you have power, obviously you're looking to solidify your power. One of the things that I always say is know capitalists make the best socialists, for example, right? Once you've climbed the ladder and like you've via capitalism, like say you're Jeff Bezos. I'm just using him as an example. I'm not pointing him out for anything. But if you're Jeff Bezos and you're the, you're like the richest man in the world and you become the richest man in the world because you built Amazon well, you don't want the next big guy to come around and make something bigger than Amazon, right? So you're looking at how you can make sure there is no competition. Like the very thing that let you into the markets is like you don't want the markets to be so free anymore. And it's why so so many people Even in the past, this is why we. We initially had to pass laws against monopolies, because powerful people were just like, I'll just buy up all the smaller guys and become more and more powerful. That's like, the instinct is to just maintain your power if you're. Whether you're a business, whether you're the government, or whether you've realized that a. A relationship between businesses and the government is the best way to maintain your power. And I'm speaking about the vaccine industry. It's a perfect marriage between the manufacturers who don't allow any competitions. There's very few. You got, you know, Pfizer, you've got Merck. There's a couple other ones I'm forgetting, but there's very small group of people, and they're in lockstep with the fda, and you've got sort of this perfect marriage. And they have a lot of power. And in my view, they've become a drug cartel because of those reasons. So, yeah, I mean, that would be, I think, my answer to that question of who is trying to control things. It's people that have power that don't want to let go of it and don't want their power threatened.
- [03:24]
Tom Bilyeu
Now, I heard you say something when I was researching you that it gave me pause. So I'm very curious to hear. You and I share a fear of authoritarian rule, but when you were talking to Andrew Tate, you said that maybe Putin wouldn't be the worst. You were being a little tongue in cheek. But I'm curious, do you actually think that the way that Putin runs his government is better than what's happening here?
- [03:53]
Candace Owens
I think America is running the government exactly like Putin, that we just have an illusion of freedom. I don't see, like, there was actually this notorious point. I want to say two things about that, because I actually do recognize that the way Putin is running his government and China is running their government is obviously going to take America out, because there's not a society that can survive without strong men. And we're now encouraging weak men. So if you're. If you're betting on a horse, go. Go with the strong one, not the weak one. Right. And that was kind of one of the things that me and Tate were talking about was like, Operation Globo Homo, Right? And we were saying that, obviously, you're just giving a funny name to it, but there is this increase in, like, transgender, be a lesbian, you know, get kids, pharmaceuticals. We are now a society of weak men. So when you say objectively which government is Running their country better. Well, how do you run a country? You want your country to survive, right? The next generation to be able survive and to be in a position of power. America is not doing that right now. Where we're, we are, we are making our country weaker and weaker and weaker. And that's why I say this isn't my granddaddy's America, right? This is not. The men are way too effeminate and it's just, it's. The culture is, is raw in. But to an. To go back to my first point I was going to make, there was this point when Joe Biden said something he called Putin a killer, right? A cold blooded killer. And Putin responded because I'm, I'm interested enough that I go read his speeches because I don't, I know the media lies about everything. They lied about what was causing the Ukraine war. You gotta, you have to read everyone's speeches and try to discern for yourself what's true. But Putin said it takes one to know one. What, what, what mirage are we existing in that you think Putin is a cold blooded killer and not America who's been at war overseas bombing. We bombed a million Iraqi civilians, 1 million innocent people we bombed. We've been bombing the Middle east, we've been bombing like non stop. Look what we did in Afghanistan. So it's like we just have this illusion because it's not happening on our soil and the media is telling us that every time we're stomping out terrorists. I mean do yourself a favor and obviously Wikipedia is not a great source for anything but you should just go up and look up caller revolutions and just look at the list of how many times we overthrew governments. Who are we to do that? Could you imagine? And then you have our media going. Russia spent a million dollars trying to influence our election. And I think it's just, it's hilarious how people can be so plugged in that they don't even realize we specialize in overthrowing countries in their elections and installing people. We did this in Ukraine. This is the reason that this whole, this whole conflict didn't be two years ago. This whole conflict began when John McCain went over there and in this something Dave Smith and I spoke about and was protesting in the streets. They overthrew a duly elected government in Ukraine and installed a puppet for the West. That's going to create tension in various areas. And so to think at what we did to Gaddafi. I mean horrific. So to what I don't accept. Once you learn about not Even history. You're talking about actual present and what America has done to other countries. I no longer accept the Putin boogeyman theory. Like, it takes one to know one. These are how governments are run. He's open about what he is. We are still making people think, well, we passed gay marriage. So I guess it means like, we're not like bopping, dropping bombs on children everywhere, all across the world and staging elections around the world and overthrowing, meaning, you know, people's duly elected elections and making countries worse. After we're there, as we tell our public that we're spreading democracy, go check out a list of all the countries that we've said that we're spreading democracy. We're bombing them into oblivion.
- [07:45]
Tom Bilyeu
Yeah, there, there is no doubt in my mind that realpolitik the movements of people to establish power internationally and keep that power is, is a bloody and horrifying game that America has certainly been very involved in. But going back to the idea of. So right now I have the belief that the American system is far better than the Russian system. So I want to understand. So the reason I believe that is while I believe that democracy is very fragile, that it is certainly under assault, that we for sure should be very worried about some of the authoritarian moves, we at least have had the transition of power. I am very aware of how people feel about recent events in terms of it not being as peaceful as it ought to have been. But in Russia, they've had the same leader for whatever, 16 years or something. That to me is an indicator of an underlying authoritarian rule that is a step farther down the road than where we are now. Is that your read on the situation or are you like, if we could literally one for one swap, we'd be better off. America would be tougher. We wouldn't be raising weak men. Do you, you think that would be better than what we have now?
- [09:06]
Candace Owens
I don't think that what we have now is what we believe we have now. So I'm, I've, I've recognized that America is just a Hollywood production. I mean, I don't think, or at least I would hope that most people recognize that Joe Biden has not been running the nation for four years. Right. I think we kind all acknowledged that he's not been running the nation for four years. The question is, who has been? And this gets into the shadow government. You know, the media completely panicked and went into a tailspin when Tucker Carlson went over there to interview Vladimir Putin. Why? Right. Why would you be in a complete tailspin? This is what journalism journalists are supposed to do. Like, since the beginning of time, journalists are supposed to go and speak to other leaders of countries to get information. And they freaked out about this. And one of the most compelling parts of that conversation was when Tucker asked him a meaningful question. I think it might have been about President Clinton. And he said, like, you know, when you and President Clinton. Clinton spoke about this, did. Maybe it was about him joining NATO, because he said, I've tried to join NATO several times. Like, I've tried to work with the West. Which is true, by the way. That's a fact. He. He has, but they've not wanted to do that for whatever reason. And he almost looked at Tucker like he was a child. He's just like, you know, I don't deal with your presidents. I deal with the CIA. You know. You know, it's like, nobody cares about your president. I know it's like a fun thing and democracy wins and we all get to applaud and yay, it's the first black president. At the end of the day, like, my belief is that this is an oligarchy and the CIA is running things. And the. And so, yeah, if we're. They're doing things without even having to come to the American people for permission. I mean, I thought Congress had to prove us going to war. How are we sending all of these packages, billions of dollars overseas? The state tells us, Pentagon tells us, oh, couldn't figure out the accounting. We lost all that money. We can't tell you where it went. Meanwhile, they're sending 550,000 more IRS agents to make sure you paid that extra 100 bucks. So to me, it's just. It's all an illusion. And I thought that was. That was honest like, that. That was actually. What I appreciated was just Vladimir Putin being like, what kind of a non. Obviously, I deal. I deal with the CIA, you know, like. And so I, in that way, kind of think it's a little bit of the Truman show here in America. And people are invested in believing that there's going to be change. But when you really take a look into it, nothing ever really does change.
- [11:31]
Tom Bilyeu
I have a big belief that it doesn't matter what you look at. It matters what you see. And my look, I am very open to that. The. In the final analysis, I'm the one that's delusional. And I look at something and I'm not seeing what's really there. And obviously, you do not know me, but my whole thing is, is beliefs have utility and they either help you do the things you're trying to do. And I'll assume that somebody has an honorable goal. And so my thing is, hey, you should only do and believe that which moves you towards that honorable goal. Now, I look at Russia versus America, and I go, okay, we. If. As a business guy, I'm just always looking at KPIs, all right, so we have a way better economy and compared to Russia. So I look at Russia and I say, all right, one guy in charge. Make him happy. You can do what you want. Don't make him happy. You can't. America is, hey, I get it. There's a lot of bs, There's a lot of narrative, There's a lot of convincing people that we are something that we're really not. But at the same time, the structure that we have created has attracted and produced some of the most extraordinary innovators the world has ever seen. And so I look at that, and I'm the guy for whom the system worked. I grew up middle class, maybe even lower middle class, and I have succeeded tremendously. And so I look at the system and I'm like, hey, I don't want this system to fall apart. I look at Russia and I say that that is a fundamentally different belief system. That is the collective over the individual. That is.
- [13:02]
Candace Owens
Have you been to Russia?
- [13:03]
Tom Bilyeu
I have not.
- [13:05]
Candace Owens
Interesting. Yeah, so I couldn't tell you because I had not been to Russia. But it's. I always think it's interesting when people speak passionately about a place they've never seen. Maybe you know Russians. I mean, I. I can only say I know Russians. And it. It's just interesting. It's interesting to hear. And that's one thing that I always do, too, is I. I try not to speak about places that I don't feel like I have a leg in because I've been so blown away by what I thought was true. And then what kind of was the situation when I arrived somewhere? You know, you go to American cities and they're in ruin, and there's homeless people on the streets, there's homeless encampments. You know, you and I both got ahead. Not coming from much, but the circumstance when you look at the filth that surrounds these cities, it's so shocking to step outside of that and go somewhere. And you're kind of constantly being told, like, america is the greatest place in the world. America is the greatest place in the world. And you just wonder why it is. And I think actually Tucker did the segment when he went out there. How he was so shocked by how clean everything was and, like, how. I don't. I think he. He did this thing where he got made fun of in. He got made fun of in the media because he went to the grocery store and spoke about how cheap the prices were versus what he had expected in his American mindset before going out there. So that's the only reason I'm asking you. I don't actually know the answer. I've never been there either. But I'm wondering if you're relying upon not the church of science, but the church of media to inform what you believe to be about Russia. Like, do you think they all hate him and he's an evil dictator, or do you think the Russians love him?
- [14:44]
Tom Bilyeu
I don't have any knowledge of that. I am. I'm surprised that you said you thought I was speaking passionately about Russia. I'm speaking passionately about America. So look.
- [14:53]
Candace Owens
No, I meant passion, as in, like, not positive passion, just like, you know, you have it. You have a very formed opinion of Russia. Right? You're kind of like Russia compared to the America.
- [15:04]
Tom Bilyeu
What do you think? Yeah, but I'm talking about a KPI, so I'm looking at economics. So you look at the economic output of the two countries. We are way ahead of Russia. And then the next question is, okay, why? Maybe the punchline is Western interference. Okay, that's possible. I'm very open to whatever the punchline ends up being. But in trying to. I am trying to leverage you as somebody who looks at the narratives that we're being told, identifies that many of them are not true, and then offers a way forward. And so I'm trying to figure out how you judge. Like, the Putin thing was the one where I was like, whoa, I didn't see that one coming. I couldn't map it to what I thought of as your world view. And so I'm just trying to understand from your perspective what that represents so far. What I've taken away. And if this is missing or inaccurate, let me know. But what I've taken away so far is a. Some very substantive portion of why that feels at least intuitively right to you, is that America is generating weak men. And I've heard you talk a lot about the roles between the sexes. The way that we're raising men and women has a high level of dysfunction. But I didn't know if there was more to it. If it's like just that's you grappling with feeling like there is a cultural problem that we have here in the west that they have solved better than us. Or if, like, you've really done a deep dive and you're like, yo, we'd be better off with that style of government.
- [16:39]
Candace Owens
Well, no, I have not. And what I would say is the social aspects really matter to me. So I was covering on my show this story where they were presenting it like, Russia was this terrible place because they were hunting down a woman who, in protest, like, took her top off in. In front of this sacred cathedral. And they're like, look at this unfree country. Like, you know, they're putting her on a list and the cops are searching for her. Then I asked my audience a question, like, do you think you couldn't survive in a place that said, like, you couldn't take, like, we. We've gone the. We're just the other extreme. Do you know what I mean? We're the other extreme where people can defecate on a cathedral or people can. Women are naked all the time. We have slut walks and we go, oh, this is freedom. This is not freedom. This is not freedom at all. We have no respect for anything in this country. And so it's. It's not that Russia is better than America. It's that Russia in May in America, if you think about it, are just opposite sides. It's like. It's like, you know, it's like the horseshoe theory. It's really. It's like, this is the other extreme. And it's awful. It's absolutely awful. We should. San Francisco should not have hoop police. You know what I mean? And you're like, well, at least you can take your top off in a cathedral. I'm like, yeah, but I don't want to do that. Like, I have enough respect for me and my community, my neighbors, that I'd be totally fine if there was a law that if you took your top off at a cathedral, you get arrested. I'm actually okay with that. Like, if we have to regulate, like, having common decency and respect because we somehow have had our brains rinsed into believing that that's. This is what freedom is. No, it's. This is not freedom. And. And so, of course, one of the things also is that it's a tremendous. It's a very Christian society. And obviously, if that's a bias that I could lay down, you know, it's got an orthodox Christian society. And, yeah, it matters to me that there are strong men. I think it's important to have strong men. And so one of the things, yeah, I. It's not even. It's more of a commentary that the opposite thing is not good. Right? Like you're, like, you can't swing the pendulum to the exact opposite side and go, so this must be good. No, this is very bad. America's in a very bad state socially.
- [18:56]
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- [19:26]
Tom Bilyeu
All right. Is what we have not freedom, or do you have a value that supersedes freedom that you want to see as our primary, even if it's just culturally aspired to value?
- [19:42]
Candace Owens
Well, I would say that if you don't have bodily autonomy, you definitely can't purport to be a free society. So that for me was a like, wow, like force vaccine people to go to work is. That's enslavement. That's crazy. You know, you cannot say we live in a free society when the government attempted to implement force like you, you can't work. You're going to get fired if you don't get this vaccine that we created. That's not a free society. The tax burden and the way that it's increased, not even being able to know where your taxes. This is just not the, this is not the vision that our founding fathers had. We are very far removed from that. And we're inching closer and closer to socialism. You know, the money that is being spent on welfare isn't actually increasing people's welfare. Right? You, you got trillions of dollars spent on the welfare system since it was implemented. And the people that received the recipients are poorer today than they were when it began. So this seems like, it seems like they're encouraging a sort of neo slavery. It's like an illusion of freedom, but in fact, it's like neo slavery where they kind of want everyone to be a welfare recipient. They want everyone to be relying on the government for something. And a big piece of that is also the pharmaceutical industry, which is creating addicts. The opioid crisis. No one ever gets into trouble. And you see more and more kids that are being put on very serious drugs at a young age. And I, I don't think the government has our Best interest at heart. Now you add that in addition to that, look at the education system. We're creating the Department of Education. They said in, what was it? Which president was that? The Jimmy Carter in 1970 who created the Department of Education. And it's because every child deserves to have an access to, to education. What have been the results? It is a fact. Kids are getting dumber and dumber and dumber. It has been an abject failure or it's been a success because the goal is to create the illusion of education while all you're actually doing is creating a bunch of brats who are so convinced that they're smart, but they can't do a basic math problem. They don't understand. They cannot even write an English paper. They can't even speak English. And then you weigh that against. And this is something that Matt Walsh brought into the foray. Go read a letter written by a Civil War soldier who had no formal education. And it sounds like poetry. We're systematically being dumbed down. I believe that we're systematically being poisoned. I believe that we're systematically being made sicker via the things that are allowed in our food that are not allowed in the food in Europe. When I go and stay in even London for months at a time because my husband's from the uk, I feel better. Like we're, they're like allowed to poison us here. Because of course, like I said, the FDA is colluding with these people, the Monsanto. Everything that is happening in America right now does not feel like freedom. It feels like a very slow darkening, a very slow diminishing of the human mind and the human body.
- [22:46]
Tom Bilyeu
Would you want to see more freedom and a return to that or to capture it for the first time? Or would you value decency above freedom?
- [22:58]
Candace Owens
Well, I don't think it violates my freedom in any way to say, like, hey, you can't defecate on the streets. Like, you know, I think that, you know, I, I would, I would be totally fine with that, actually. What I would like to see, and I think the only way to attain your freedom is on a household to household basis and making those decisions to step outside of the quote unquote matrix or the system that's been created for you. That's why I encourage homeschooling. And the homeschool students are excelling right now, you know, and there's a reason for that because they're not being put in a classroom that's just trying to marry them to various social causes. I mean, trying to Pass like CRT and like race training above making sure kids can be mathematically competitive. Like, do you really think like China's not going to stomp on America in a generation? Their kids are like this on the calculator when they're three, when they're three years old. So I, I think that the best way to achieve freedom is to achieve freedom within your own household. You know, and that's what I encourage to parents. I say, you can always control what happens in your own household. You can always be the person that stands up and says, like, this is my bottom line. Like, my kids are not doing this and we're not doing this. And also making yourself more self sufficient. Like something that I did because I wanted to achieve freedom was I learned how to grow food. People don't even realize that that has even created welfare recipients. Like if, if something happened in New York City, like people think that food grows in a grocery store. And it was shocking to me to realize that this wisdom that our grandparents all had, they knew how to farm the land. They all knew. Even today, girls, women, don't even know how to cook. Forget, like to grow the food. They're like, oh, I don't cook. Like I'm achieving like a career. And I'm like, so we're all just a bunch of welfare recipients. You don't even know what agricultural zone you're in. You don't even know what grows in your soil outside. So these are the things that I encourage with my work, like get off of welfare. Like we're all on welfare in some regard, right? Learn how to grow food so that if something happens, you know what to do. Actually make sure that you're gathering books with true knowledge that you can pass down to, to your children. Like your parents could go out and just like grab a plant. My granddad used to do this when I had like a cut or a burn. He knew, he knew the plants that were around that could fix something. And I think that's, that truly is the only way that you can achieve freedom. Rather than trying to solve the world's problems, try to solve the problems in your own household.
- [25:28]
Tom Bilyeu
And when you say something like learn how to make your own food or grow your own food hunt, what are the odds that you think something so catastrophic happens that that becomes necessary?
- [25:43]
Candace Owens
I think the odds are always high. I mean, that's the problem is we don't have a memory of hard times. Our grandparents did, you know, a couple generations ago. These are things that your grandparents would have never allowed to Happen because they lived through hard times. You know, you had grandparents that never even put cash in a bank because they. They've lived through a time where there was a collapse. And you've had the grandparents who always kept canned foods and stashed up on food because they. They know that that can happen. And so, yeah, I would say I have an apocalyptic mind. It was definitely a reason that I married my husband, because I liked that my husband could hunt. Talking about that traditional masculinity, right? Like, can you go outside and fish and hunt? If the answer is no, what are you doing if there's no food? Like, are you. Like, what's your plan here? I get that you have, like, a nice Rico Suave suit and you work on Wall street, but, like, you're pathetic. I always say I evaluate my friends. I'm like, would they be in our apocalyptic tribe? What could they bring to the table? Sorry, that. That dice Wall street suit isn't going to cut it. We actually don't need you here in the forest. You know, do you have a science mind? And the answer for most people is no. They know nothing about anything because they just were relying on the experts. They don't know basic science. So it's. It has been a very empowering process for me to realize how little I knew. Despite the fact that I achieved two college degrees, I know not. I knew nothing. And I made an effort to learn things that actually matter, like how to survive on your own. Women don't know how to sew. Stitch nothing. The Amish have got it all figured out. You got to need some Amish neighbors.
- [27:26]
Tom Bilyeu
I assume the things that you say, you say because you believe that they are accurate and oftentimes even just common sense. So why do you think it is that people find you, or so many people find you controversial?
- [27:39]
Candace Owens
I think I am controversial because I think it's controversial to think now. Like, to have an opinion, to ask questions, is really controversial. I was actually just speaking about this on my podcast. Even if you look at old media pieces from, let's call it, 20 years ago, you were allowed to think. People were allowed to present theories like, go watch the old Oprah shows. It's incredible. The people that she would have on today, she would be called Alex Jones. Like, she could never host those same shows. Today, we've grown increasingly authoritarian as a society, and there's sort of been this implicit nod that, you know, you should only let the experts do the thinking and you should just do the remembering. And I've never been wired that way, like I've always been, I wouldn't even say contrarian. But I don't like arbitrary authority, which is to say you need to actually give me an explanation. And I would like to process your explanation and see if I accept that explanation before I just mandate that into my life.
- [28:44]
Tom Bilyeu
Now, you've warned people against taking a black pill and not believing anything. So what, what process do you use to figure out what is true?
- [28:57]
Candace Owens
Well, it depends on what the subject is sometimes. I am not necessarily saying this person is completely wrong. I always just say to people, even when you hear something from me, you should go conduct your own research. It's very rare, actually. I don't think I've ever said to someone, like, definitely believe me, like, I. Probably the most controversial thing I do is I did a series called the Shot in the Dark, which is about vaccines. And that was just a big no go before COVID I was doing this before COVID hit and people really did sort of just trust the doctors because they're doctors. I give them the information, I give them the links, I show them where I'm learning and I always invite them to learn with me, you know, so I'm, you know, for that particular series, just to jump into that, it was actually quite stunning how much money it cost me to be able to access the studies and the medical information. Like there's an entire cartel where if you want to access a study that's been published, you've got to pay like 20 bucks to even access it. Which is an absolute nonsense. If you're going to mandate that everybody take this shot. The information should be free. And so I did that because that was something that I was extremely passionate about and I paid for all of those studies. And I, you know, lined it up and said, here are the studies that were actually done. Here are the actual numbers. You can do this math yourself so you can at least assess the risk and not just make a decision for your child based on, well, if your child doesn't do this, she's going to die or your child's going to get polio if you don't do this. That's, that's just manipulating people by tactics of fear and not logic.
- [30:30]
Tom Bilyeu
So one of the things you and I share, a deep and abiding fear of authoritarian rule. One of the things though, that I worry about is the reason manipulation works is humans are manipulatable. They are always looking for shortcuts. There's too much information coming at them and so they have to have a rubric for parsing things. And right now we're living in the age of influence influencers where it's like, okay, I'm going to pick Candace or I'm going to pick, I mean, fill in the blank. And they're going to be the person that I trust to do the thinking for me. How in a world where there are so many narratives to think through, what are the base assumptions that you would have somebody use if they had to formulate their own opinions knowing that they're not going to have time to do the research that you do?
- [31:20]
Candace Owens
Yeah. So going back to the Shot in the Dark series because that's kind of probably, like I said, the most controversial. One of the first things that I say to them is just your, your gut instinct actually matters. It matters. You have a gut instinct for a reason. I call that the God instinct. Right. There's something that tells you when there's somebody across the street that looks like they're up to no good and you kind of cross the street and you, you, there's just something that comes online, I think as a parent where you're like, I don't think I should be doing this. And it's incredible for the mothers and fathers who have followed this series how they kept saying, like, I wasn't comfortable with the amount of shots that my children were getting, but then I had a doctor kind of doing this. I say don't ignore that. You know, if you want to miss this next appointment for your child to get a shot because you, you're not sure, take a second and try to figure out why you're feeling that. So I very much believe in us all having a basic instinct when it comes to danger. And I always say to them, sort of the second thing is when you raise the fact that you're not sure how are you being spoken to and you find within the vaccine industry it is not, it's nasty. I mean they speak to parents like they're stupid. They. It's completely authoritarian. It's not. Oh yeah, no, I totally understand what you're saying here. Let me give you the information so you can read it. I want you to. Here's an easy access page where you can, you can see the studies that were done. I completely understand. You're a first time parent. Parent. It's in many times it's anger and it's actually the majority of the times the doctors will, will say to a parent, well, you know, if he's not going to get the vaccines, your child can't go here and that then leads you to the nut, the next gut instinct, which is, wait a second, didn't you take the Hippocratic oath? Aren't you supposed to be, like, wanting to. To save lives? You're telling me that if I don't do this according to your schedule, and you're telling me every child is supposed to be the exact same, like, one size fits all, and if I don't do it according to your schedule, you won't even let my child go? Here I'm talking about parents that don't want to do the vaccines. I'm talking about parents are like, I'd like to do this on a slower schedule because, you know, I don't feel comfortable about this many toxins at once. So I would say that those things, for me, I always say that really matters, right? Because if information is real and what they're telling you is honest, you. You're not treated like you're an imbecile. You're not treated like you're a slave who's speaking to a master. And that process of sharing information is collaborative. And so that, for me, is kind of what I would say. I think that's what I always highlight and underscore to them, is that when something is real and it actually exists, it doesn't feel threatened by you asking a question, a basic question. Can I see a study? How many kids die of this? How many? You know, when did we start giving this shot? Why did we start? What is the history of this shot? And the truth is, is that a lot of times the pediatricians react that way because they don't know the answer either. They don't learn. And I have friends that are doctors, and they say, we don't actually learn this in school. We just learn. This is what you give the child. And here's what you say if the parents try to defy it.
- [34:17]
Grainger Announcer
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- [34:49]
Tom Bilyeu
And when you're thinking through something like that, that has huge consequences. Is there a. You have the gut instinct. You feel like something is wrong. You present the data, you're getting feedback from them. That doesn't feel right. Is it, Go seek a Second opinion, is it go do research. Do you have a set of follow along questions that you encourage people to ask so that they can solve a novel problem that they've never encountered before?
- [35:19]
Candace Owens
Yes. So to go back into how I got into the vaccine thing, I was actually injured from a vaccine and I thank God for that. I was injured from the Gardasil vaccine when I was about 19 or 20 years old. I had a seizure in the office with the doctor. Dr. Shore freaked out. Yeah, it was a mini seizure. So it was nothing. Thankfully, it was nothing that had long lasting effects. Passed out in the office. And I share that on my first episode. I share them. I want you to even know why I'm saying this to you because I always like to lay out my biases, which the media never does. They never say I'm getting paid from big Pharma or a doctor never says, hey, actually we get kickbacks for every child that completes the vaccine schedule on time. I get a $40,000 check that's also real. Nobody talks about their incentives. So I always, I always want to lay out mine right away. I was vaccine injured. Here's how I ended up on this journey. I trusted the doctor blindly. They said this was going to stop me from getting ovarian cancer from HPV I knew nothing about. I had never even heard of hpv. That was a very new STD at the time. It wasn't one of the ones that we learned about in high school. And I got this shot, had this reaction, got up and realized I knew nothing and I just trusted a doctor. And when I did my research and I learned first and foremost that HPV clears up 97% of the time all by itself. And then I researched the rates of, I can't remember if it's ovarian or cervical cancer. I think it's ovarian cancer that they say that it leads to. And I researched the rates of ovarian cancer. Extremely low. Like it's actually like a rarer form of cancer that has a very high, that has a high, a higher survival rate. And then I researched to see since they started mandating this HPV vaccine, you know, have we dealt with this particular type of cancer? No, actually, that type of cancer has increased. And so I just did the math on all of it. And I wasn't using any shady websites. I was, I was using, you know, cancer.org, whatever the main websites are. And I just presented them with those statistics and realized I made a decision where if the doctor had given me all this information, as opposed to you're this will stop you from getting cancer, which wasn't even an honest portrayal of the facts. He probably was getting some sort of a kickback that was a new vaccine. I would have made a different decision. I just didn't have the information. So when I present that, I tell them my backstory, I show them all of these websites. My. One of the things that I always swear on that particular series, like my promise to the followers is I'm never. I'm not going to use a shady website. I'm not going to find this on the Reddit feed, I'm not going to find it on a back channel. I'm going to show you the statistics that are being presented on the CDC website and I'm going to show you how to realize when they're manipulating these statistics, like when they're applying it globally versus in America. That stuff matters, right? Obviously. Because if you live in a place that doesn't have basic sanitation, well, it's not a big shock that you're going to have certain diseases. Like sanitation wipes out certain diseases. Basic. Like being able to flush a toilet and wash your hands can change circumstances. And I'll show them the index, like the OECD index. Like, these are countries that actually live like us and so we could. This is actually a fairer comparative analysis. And I always say, like, I'm not telling you what to do. I just don't want you to be like me and make a decision without having information. And once you have that information, you feel like you can actually have a conversation with your doctor. Right. So then you can actually go to the quote unquote expert and say, you know, actually the cervical cancer rates have gone up since the shot was and 97% of HPV clears up on its own. And, and then you're having a conversation, you don't feel like you're being, you know, bullied into the situation and or feel like you're being left out of the conversation. So I'm not into, I'm not in the business of trying to compete with the medical industry. I'm just trying to provide parents, like an entryway so they can ask basic questions and, or know basic facts before they introduce something into their body, which I think is a right.
- [39:16]
Tom Bilyeu
So when I look at how complicated the world is, the, the thing underlying the questions that I'm asking now are I people need. When I was growing up, for instance, you just believed that the experts knew what they were talking about, that they had your best interests at heart, that they had done the research. Covid happens, and their Covid plus social media, plus the Twitter files, all of that begins to break this sense of, I can trust what people are telling me, that they do have my best interests at heart. And it starts fragmenting into things like, the government is lying to you because they want to control you. They're censoring you through social media, but not being honest about it. There's all of these base assumptions about the way that the world is that begin to fall apart. And do you think that the world has. Has always been like that and nobody ever had our best interests at heart, or has something actually changed recently and that's why it's. It's just we're now seeing it because it's only happening now?
- [40:22]
Candace Owens
Well, again, that would. That answer would depend on what. What topic we're talking about. If you're talking about the medical industry, on the basis of the research that I have done, I would say it has always been. And I'm talking about vaccines. There's always been an industry of lies that relies on fear. I believe that from the bottom of my heart. And the fact that I say, okay, I'm just a parent for a doctor that writes a piece and says, this is dangerous misinformation, and I offer them the opportunity to come on my show and debate everything I'm saying. Like, I'm not here to say I don't believe in not having conversation. It's the exact opposite. In fact, I think that a big reason why my audience trusts me so much is because I have the humility to admit when I'm wrong. I've many times pivoted on positions and said, okay, I reported on this yesterday. And then actually, this person showed this, and this was. This was actually wrong. So I want to update that. When it comes to the medical industry, and obviously you saw this during COVID but I was doing this series before COVID when Joe Rogan said, hey, let's. I'll have you on the podcast. You're saying that I'm spreading Covid misinformation, and you're a doctor. Why don't you speak to this guy who you're saying has gone fringe, Dr. Robert Malone. And their answer is, no, this is the science. The science is settled. Well, that should let you know that it's. It's not science, right? Because, like, if you're telling me that we can't challenge it and we can't. You can't explain it and sit next to somebody and Say, hey, let me tell you why that's inaccurate. Or I see that, that study that you pulled up, maybe you're reading it wrong. They don't want to do that. And there's a reason for that, because in my, in my viewpoint, particularly on the vaccine injury industry, it has been about profits from the very beginning. And there are so many lies and misrepresentations and cover ups. You know, some of it is the government made a mistake. I mean, as an example, one of the biggest things that people believe is that, you know, we eradicated polio because of vaccines. That is objectively false. When we had the huge polio outbreak, and I don't have my notes in front of me, I want to say this was in the 1930s or 40s. 1940s, I believe the second huge polio outbreak. Actually what it was was that diagnostically they were counting anything, even if it was temporary paralysis as polio. What was causing so many kids to have temporary paralysis is that they were spraying them with DDT poisoning. If you go and you look at what they didn't know, obviously at the time that ddt, they were spraying everything from the apples to the animals. They were also becoming paralyzed to the children were spraying them with ddt. And then what they did was they stopped spraying kids with ddt and then they diagnostically changed definition of polio. They got way more specific, as they did with COVID Right. And the numbers completely plummeted. They re. Re categorized it into many different things, one of it being Guillain Bar syndrome. And they don't tell you this stuff. And I just show people the videos. Hey, here are the videos. Here's what ddt, DDT poisoning does. Here are the actual. Because Daily Mail did a whole piece showing they just were spraying children in pools and it's, it's just dishonesty, you know, when you can control the definitions. And I'll show them an actual book of a person who exposed that and doctors and I'll give them all of the books. I always provide links so they can learn about this themselves. If you eradicated polio and vaccines really did it, and you're a doctor and Canis is spreading dangerous misinformation. Wouldn't. The first thing you'd want to do would be to come on this show when I give you an open invitation, you know, I don't want to harm people. And it's also the instinct that tells me as well when. And that was something that I said to parents. As a mother, you would do anything for Your kids. You have, I mean, hundreds of thousands of mothers that are taking to the streets from different backgrounds, right? You've got different races, different backgrounds, different socioeconomic classes all saying the same thing. My kid was fine until this. What incentive does does a mother have to join a protest? You're treated like a pariah when you're anti vaxx. You're talking, they just doing this for attention, holding photos of their children who they say were injured children who they say who they said died. And then, you know, people personally who went through this, whose children were advancing and then got a shot and then were never the same. And so it's the, the tremendous gaslighting on top of it. Now that I am a parent, it's, it's. It's insane to say to a parent, well, your child was always like that. And then. And I know they were laughing and giggling and making eye contact, and suddenly they're not. But that was just like something genetically that went off. And that is why it's even more important to me that parents get educated about these decisions that they're making. Because Big Pharma will hold your hand to get you to take the thing, but if something happens to your child, they'll just stop answering your phone calls. They'll totally gaslight you and tell you that they had nothing to do with it, that the nine shots that you brought them in for has nothing to do with it. So, I mean, that's where I come from. And again, if I was shutting down speech and I was saying, don't speak to your doctors, and I was saying don't ever have a debate about it, then I would recommend my audience stop listening to me.
- [45:33]
Tom Bilyeu
So when I hear stuff like that, the thing that makes me nervous is you're taking something I think you prize gut instinct in a way that I, for instance, don't. I'm just one guy, so whatever. But, but you have said I left the mega church of science behind. What do you replace that with, though? Because the thing that scares me is going like, I get it. I think people should be able to ask questions. And what freaked me out during COVID was when they were shutting people down, they were asking questions. And my thing is, hey, assume that the vast majority of the people asking questions are wrong and dumb, but you still need to let these ideas be challenged. Otherwise we're never actually going to be able to find out what's true. But what I worry about is that we'll start playing fast and loose with this feels right. And because the science has lied, has tried to silence people, that now we're just what I'll call shooting from the hip with. My gut tells me something's wrong. My gut tells me that vaccines don't work. But what do you replace? Like, if you don't have faith in science, how do we validate our instincts?
- [46:44]
Candace Owens
Yeah. So I want to be clear when I say that I've left the megachurch of science. What I mean by that is for many people, it has become a blind faith, and they will disregard everything that they're seeing and just go, okay, well, Dr. Fauci said it, so it must be true. That's a faith. I mean, that to me, that's a part of the humanist agenda. And I'm. I am just not wired that way. Regarding saying, go with your gut instinct. I don't say just go with your gut instinct. I say, don't ignore your gut instinct.
- [47:14]
Grainger Announcer
Right.
- [47:15]
Candace Owens
And so if you're not ignoring your gut instinct and something says to you, I don't feel comfortable with my child, who has just been out of the womb for three seconds, and I'm being told by a doctor that he needs the Hep B vaccine, which Hep B is in an std. That just doesn't. That right there. You should instantly go, if my child's going to get hep B in his hospital, I'm in the. I'm in the wrong hospital. Right. And that is the instinct. You hear so many moms say that, like, they're just telling you now your child is born wrong. Like, they need vitamin K 3 seconds out. They need Hep B, they need this, they need that. The circumcision, whatever it is, your. If your gut is telling you that doesn't feel right, listen to that gut and then find the information. Like, learn the information and know that what they're selling you in the hospital, like, you shouldn't be making these sorts of decisions under fire and under duress, because that's what it is. You are under duress when you have someone that is saying to you, as the pediatrician in the hospital said to me, that my daughter would die if I didn't get the shot. This shot. And I, I, obviously, she had no idea who I was. She was messing with the complete wrong parent. And I, I gave her a lecture. I said, you know, how dare you? How dare you? I mean, I'm lucky, but I'm married. I'm lucky that I'm not a woman that is vulnerable enough to respond to that. And then said, I get very angry And I walked out of the hospital with my baby and my beautiful, non vaxxed 2 year old daughter, my non packed 3 year old son, perfectly healthy. I mean the girl, I think she didn't even get so much as the sniffles for the first year of life, I think just despite the pediatrician. But I mean, how dare you, how dare you use that language to a mother. She's gonna die if you don't do this. That's, that's not science, that's a threat. And I understand and I explained to the parents the financial metrics as well, because there are financial incentives, they do get bonuses on the basis of whether or not they complete your child. Getting vaccines on time from the insurance companies, that's problematic. And so like I said, I'm not a person that says just go with your gut at all times, but I do say do not ignore your gut. And I do believe, because I, I come from the church of God, that your gut instinct is divine. Especially for mothers. There is, there is a spiritual bond and a, and it's a spiritual women's intuition. You hear people talk about the women's intuition all the time and that comes into hyper focus when you become a mom. Like when they say moms have eyes in the back of their heads. It's like a thing like your child is always connected to the umbilical cord. And I will say to my husband, I just get a vibe from that person. He's like, what are you talking about? I only, it's the vibe. I don't want my kid around them. It's against anything, bad vibe, vibe, right. So you could say, well, that's completely illogical. The person, it's a vibe. And then typically now, now my husband and I have been married for five years. He's amazed, he's like, at how right those inclinations, those first inclinations tend to be when it comes to my children. And so like I said, just don't, don't discount it. You don't have to say, fully rely on this. And then don't go pursue any information because that would be ridiculous too. But don't throw away your gut. And I think that the big pharma industry is trying to persuade people to ignore every single one of their gut instincts and to just submit themselves to the church of science, or as C.S. lewis termed it, scientism.
- [50:33]
Tom Bilyeu
I love the idea of using your gut instinct as an alarm. What I tell people is your gut is the subconscious way of your body speaking to you. So the body's pulling God knows how many data points your literal microbiome is speaking to you, your past experience is speaking to you. Whatever evolutionary systems that we have, all of those things are, are trying to say something in a rapid language which is the language of emotion. So you feel something. I think that's very wise. What I'm trying to track down. And you are a fascinating individual because you talk about gut instinct and being a parent and how that changes you. But you're also extremely rhetorically gifted and you can put things into logical arguments and you can attack things point by point. So what I'm trying to get people when they look at you, because I look at you and I see somebody, that your popularity signals to me that you are saying something that people believes needs to be said and has not been said. And so now I'm trying to figure out what is that thing that you're saying that people aren't reading. I come to, I think you have a worldview, something I call frame of reference that gives you a path that you can walk down when something seems wrong to then come back from emotion and give people a rhetorical argument that they can use as a shortcut to live their life. Okay, so put a pin in that. That's, that's how I see you. But now I want to know when you say something like, hey, you need to trust your gut, I'm on board. But what you'll then, what I hear you saying is then go do research. Gut tells you alarm, it's a move away alarm. But now you need to do something. So you're going to need to move towards something. What is that thing? Go do research. But now when you're doing the research, you have to trust some data. So how do, how do people know what data to trust?
- [52:35]
Candace Owens
Well, so again, it depends on the subject. And so to make the data that
- [52:39]
Tom Bilyeu
I just let me rather. Because you've said that now a couple times, I want to make sure I zoom in on that. So it, what if you were to step back and say, regardless of subject, here is how I approach into this at a foundational level. So for me, I'll say it's. I look at your frame of reference is beliefs and values. Biology is thrown in there. But that'll confuse this moment. So what you believe to be true about the world world is going to inform every piece of data that you read. So for instance, I think you tell me if this is wrong. I think you have a belief that the government lies to you, that they have an agenda to rule over you and they need to keep you dumb shorthand. So please, by all means, if that doesn't feel accurate, chime in.
- [53:26]
Candace Owens
That's right.
- [53:28]
Tom Bilyeu
So that belief then is going to guide where you go for sources of data. So for instance, I think you're going to rely on spirituality a lot. You're going to point people to the Bible for help in these kinds of decisions. And that sequence of how you approach those problems is the thing I'm trying to tease out. Because people will often shut you down in their own minds because they hear a controversial headline and then they shut off. But if my hope is that I can figure out what those bricks are that you use to build the foundation of your worldview that allows you to not be trapped by a narrative that you think is BS in a way that so many people get trapped.
- [54:11]
Candace Owens
Actually, no. So I don't actually go straight to the Bible. We actually live in a society where people don't implicitly trust the Bible, right? That to them, if I, if I went down that path, I don't think that I would have had the following that I have today. I always end up at the Bible. That's, that's definitely not the first step that I take. Actually, what I do to make sure that the information that I have is, quote unquote, foolproof is I intentionally go pursue the experts. So like I said to you my entire series of A Shot in the Dark, I'm pulling data from the cdc. I'm, I'm getting files from the CDC from when they back from when they had to scan everything in. I'm buying the. I'm like, they're telling you to trust the experts. They're just not showing you what the experts said. So I'll give you a perfect example. The tetanus shot. That's one parent's like, oh, what about the tetanus shot? My husband, even when I came to him and said, I don't want to backster our children, he was like, but at least the tetanus shot, that's a big one. And so I went and found the information and you know, they, the big, they know that most people don't read beyond the first paragraph. You need a tetanus shot, because blah, blah, and buried in is the data. So every child in America has to get tetanus shot. And then I found this remarkable statistic. And this is from a CDC website. So I'll ask you the question, how many people do you think when tetanus was at its peak in America? Okay, we were Being infected with tetanus at its peak, before they rolled out the vaccine, how many people do you think in America were getting tetanus? And I'll give you, just so you know, just to give you their life getting tetanus per year. So there were approximately 150 million Americans at that time. How many people do you think were getting tetanus, not dying from it, but getting it?
- [55:56]
Tom Bilyeu
3%?
- [56:01]
Candace Owens
550Americans.
- [56:05]
Tom Bilyeu
That's low.
- [56:07]
Candace Owens
It's shocking. It's absolutely shocking. And it's on the CDC website. So it's not. There's nothing that can be disputed. And then you look into tetanus and you learn more about it. And what was going on around World War II was people were not just not cleaning wounds accurately. And guess what? Still not people that were getting it, not even dying of it. Like, I mean, it's like, it's such a nonsense. And still people who are drug users get tetanus, right? That's still, it's still, I think about 15 people a year die from tetanus, whatever it is. And they're drug abusers because their, their wounds are infect, are becoming infected and festering and, and you can die from tetanus. And so the fact that it's a shocking thing for a parent to learn that because you assume everyone must have just been dropping dead in order for your child to be mandated to get this shot 12 times. And it's a combo shot, it's TDAP or D tap, depending on the age of the person. But you would just assume that more people had to have been dying during the peak. Now where did I get that information from? I got that from the ama. Right? So that's. This is the cdc, the ama. I show them the charts which show people the peak incidents in the United States. Like the most people that died in what year, the most people that were infected in what year. And the chart is stunning because even looking at that, measles, chickenpox, you just assume that it had to have been everybody for them to mandate this. And that just isn't so. So I start with this instinct that, okay, yeah, I don't know, these shots are getting a little crazy. I say, when I was a kid, like, and you can, and you can use, by the way, also your own reference. For example, when I grew up, we just had chickenpox parties. They just threw us all in the room. You got chickenpox, right? And I don't remember a single kid. And that's why I say to parents, don't forget your common sense here, right? Do you remember a single kid going around and being like, johnny died last night? No. You just remember that somebody got happy when you heard so much chickenpox and it meant that you were all getting in a room together. Talk to kids today about chickenpox. They think it's like, like polio. They're just like, we're all gonna die. Like, no, we have to get the varicella because there's a vaccine for that now, which they rolled out, I think, in 2005. And you speak to that generation and they literally think they're all going to die from varicella. So you apply that logic to how we know that chickenpox was not that big of a deal. And you go, okay, have they just been like, continually doing this, like, scaring the next generation into thinking that this was like some horrible illness everybody was dying from and that just wasn't so? And then I go and I look at the statistics of how people were dying and you're just like, what is this? And then I tell people, here was your chance of dying when there was no vaccine at all from chickenpox. And it always works out to like, you had a zero percent chance. Chance, right? If we re round it, it's a zero percent. And that chart and the CDC chart and the AMH are genuinely shocks parents and that, they never dispute it because it's real. They can't take it away. It's like it exists. And so you realize that so much of this is fear. And then I take them through what would happen if you actually got chickenpox, right? And I explained to them, like, we got it. Like you promise you, like, it was like it was itchy, but really everyone got it and you kind of just like, like dealt with that. And of course there's always something that can go wrong. It's, it's. The world is weird. Can there be a person who gets chickenpox and they die? Yeah, sure. But generally speaking, kids are pretty robust. It's the older people that you kind of, kind of have to worry about, right? Kids have the best immune systems. They, they bounce back from things the most. And then there's like the scary things that nobody speaks about, but I speak about my podcast, which is that. And, and of course you're going to say, and it is true to say that, you know, you can't necessarily say that it's, it's correlation, but the explosion of childhood cancer directly coincides with the explosion of childhood vaccines. And I show them that all of these kids getting leukemia. I mean, what is leukemia? Childhood leukemia? It's, it's. All of these autoimmune type diseases are. It's a huge question mark that I have. And of course I cannot verify that. I am not a person that can verify that, but I can say that I don't think it's normal for three year olds to get leukemia. And the fact that we. They won't even discuss this data. The fact, the fact that they won't even discuss this perfectly paralleled incidence of childhood cancers and the explosion of vaccines after Reagan removed the ability to sue for reactions. Right. Just makes me. And that's the explosion of vaccines like coincides with, oh, we can no longer get sued for them. Right. It just leads you to asking a lot of questions because then we are America, we are the West. Then it becomes a market. People are selling these drugs because they're making money. And I don't think that they're doing this because they are trying to make children healthier. That's another thing. That's common sense. I look around today and I'm like, okay, so like when I was a kid, we got eight vaccines. Like when my mom was a kid, they got two vaccines. Kids today are getting 75 vaccines. Where are the results? Do these kids look healthier to you? Everybody's kid is allergic to tree nuts and peanuts and, and walls and air. And my child can't go outside because oxygen. And I'm like, these kids, they've never been more sick. I look at my grandfather's generation, I'm like, they just, they weren't this sick. So some of that is common sense. Yes. And these are the. What I do. In my first episode, I was like, here are my like common sense questions as a mom that I just like to know. And here's the thing that happened to me. Here's the event. And then I put all that and I look at the data and I just go, okay, my children are not gonna get vaccines. And I now have three children and none of them are vaccine. All of them are healthy. And I don't worry about them dying in a cot of sudden infant death syndrome, which I believe is attributable to vaccines. And based on the research that was done about the DTaP vaccine. And within a couple of days, these children dying. And then suddenly big pharma goes, oh, it's because kids are sleeping on their stomachs. I mean, kids have been sleeping on their stomachs since the beginning of time. I think that's. That's the kind of stuff where they've created a problem and then they blame the parents for the problem that they created.
- [62:09]
Tom Bilyeu
What do you attribute the dramatic increase in lifespan to the though
- [62:16]
Candace Owens
basic sanitation. I mean when you look at kill one, what you say? One shot, one kill.
- [62:27]
Tom Bilyeu
Yeah. So sanitation. Cuz I. So I'm running everything you're saying I. When I say I am not a vaccine guy, I am not a vaccine guy, but meaning I know nothing about it. So in still trying to parse how you view the world and how you sift through something, obviously hearing this, I know a lot of people are going to say all the points she's making, they're easy to debunk and Tom just doesn't know enough to push back on this stuff. So I want to be clear about. I'm trying to get to the underlying decision making process here. So I look at the world and I say, okay, at some point in the not too distant past, we solved for something because we have dramatically increased lifespan. But at some point in the even more recent past, something has happened because lifespan is now going in the wrong direction. My thing is, I don't think we know the answer. I don't think the studies have been done. I very much doubt that we have the data. So I worry. I think this is our, our big problem in society. Everybody is looking for a rule of thumb by which they can live their life. This is why I think religion has worked so well. It is a book of rules of thumb of what to do in certain circumstances and all told to you by God. And so therefore nothing to question. Just do it and you'll be better off. And they had so much wisdom, right, that it lasted. And now we're at a point where we're, we're seeing all of these narratives begin to break down. People, even myself. I, I legitimately just wanted my podcast to be something that helped people, people. When Covet hit, I started doing financial content to be able to help people because I thought they were going to get obliterated. Then I realized we're doing something called money printing. And I'm like, what's money printing? And so I start looking at that and I realized, whoa, like, this is money in and of itself is not what I thought it was. The government is not dealing honestly with the people. And then I was like, do they even understand, like how all of this stuff works? Some of them probably, but some of them probably not.
- [64:30]
Grainger Announcer 2
Not.
- [64:31]
Tom Bilyeu
And so now it's like, okay, hold on. We live in this very complicated world. And people want very simple rules of thumb that they can follow. And we're living in a moment where all of the old rules of thumb are falling apart and probably for good reason, because something is going wrong. But I worry that, to quote you, like, don't become so black pilled that you buy into every conspiracy. And so whether it's Roe vaccination is a conspiracy, fine, like I don't care. But what I'm saying is what do we do in this moment where everything is thrown up into the air? Do you not worry that this, the destabilization of people's worldviews is more dangerous than an incorrect but useful worldview?
- [65:27]
Candace Owens
Yeah, I mean, you're asking the question, is it better for us to have a matrix established for us which people plug into and they kind of really don't ask further questions because it's easier than dealing with the plausibility that, you know, everything's kind of a lie and there's kind of just people that understand that. I mean, we're talking about the finance and the money markets and things of that nature. Yeah, I mean, we could ask some very big questions about that. But yeah, when you learn, the more you learn about history and you learn about things that we were lied about or intentionally omitted from the historical script, then you start to realize that public education actually exists to insert you into, and I'm obviously using this colloquially, the matrix. Yeah, you do start to go, okay, is it good to. To, so to speak, fall down the rabbit hole and, and to recognize that a lot of this is illusory. And that's a question I think people have to ask themselves. You know, I think for me and mine started really kind of with something small, ended up being big, which was me realizing that as a black person, I was kind of being inserted into a certain political narrative and that I was intentionally lied to a lot and that those lies were meant to make me intentionally hate white people.
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Grainger Announcer
Right.
- [66:42]
Candace Owens
That was kind of the first drop where I went, okay, this is a lot of this is lies. Now, I researched things and realized that I was lied to systematically. Like textbooks were even kind of training me to believe a certain thing. I mean, schools exist to plug you into the financial system. Right. And if you don't do research beyond what you learn in school, you're going to plug yourself in one way or the other. And you do, I think, suffer from a period of cognitive dissonance. I certainly did. And especially because I was so. There aren't many people in America that were speaking out Against Black Lives Matter as a black person. Right. And you're dealing with an onslaught of people who are calling you names. Again, that authoritarian approach where they're not actually answering the questions or the data that you're bringing up, they're just kind of saying like you're a self hating black person or you're anti vax or you're transphobe. There's always a name for everything when you start asking meaningful questions. And I think for a lot of people, they don't want to do that. You don't want to step out. Because there is a, there's a safety in just going along with the script. There is. I think that, that for a lot of people is not something they're willing to do when it comes to their children. And so that's a part of the reason why we're seeing so much fraying because we're arriving at concepts that have very serious implications in terms of COVID Maybe people were happy to do it for themselves. Then when they started talking about giving the COVID shot to children and then that fractured relationships between parents in the state right there when they felt like they had to like fight for their kids. Depending on where you live. Where do you live, Tom?
- [68:15]
Tom Bilyeu
La.
- [68:16]
Candace Owens
I was gonna say California. Huge state. Tons of moms emailing me from there. You know, in la, he's just signed a bill like they can transition your child and you can't do anything about it. Maybe you support transgenderism, that's fine. But if you don't and the state decides to take your child away, that's a very big, it's a very big deal, right? If you go, no, no, I don't think my child is transgendered. So yeah, I think we're arriving at a moment right now where the state has sort of made enough incursions into people's lives that that question of whether or not you're going to keep just going along with the narrative or if you're going to accept that maybe not everything is as you thought it was. Is now. And that truly is going to be an individual decision.
- [69:03]
Tom Bilyeu
Yes. Who is lying to us and why?
- [69:09]
Candace Owens
Well, I mean, the government's lying to you, obviously, because the government wants to make sure that they can control society. I mean, that's, that's a no brainer that the government has an interest in controlling you. Of course. That's how you, how they feel that they can maintain things and also accomplish whatever their goals are as a state. And this is when you get into what people think can Think is a conspiracy when you're talking about an elite class of people. And I have recently been doing deep dives into American history because some. My husband's British and I was speaking to some priests in the UK and they sort of looked at me like I was a complete idiot. And he was like, man, Americans just don't know anything about history. They don't even know that their country was founded by Freemasons. And then I started reading all these books, all these Freemason groups, and I just realized I know nothing about history, nothing about how America was established.
- [70:03]
Tom Bilyeu
So put it all together for everybody. What for people that follow you, listen to you, to make sense of the world. What is your 30 second button on how to move forward? Well,
- [70:15]
Candace Owens
first and foremost, follow your intuition. Like, believe like that. That means something. I do believe that the intuition is God. Don't be a person that accepts the idea that you should ignore it at all times in favor of someone else's command or demand. Let that be your guide as you pursue information. Remember that you have the right to think, you have the right to question, you have the right to change. Your mind is almost the thing that I want to say is most important. You have the right to have been in one place before and examined intuition plus facts and come out the other side of it and you can change your mind. That's something that people are very scared to do all the time. And, you know, I guess the last thing that I would say is to really cherish, to realize that the best guard that you have against a lot of this stuff is a strong family. I really do believe that every blessing that is in my life today is because I have realized how sacred and how important having a strong, functional family unit is in a family unit and with faith at the center is almost unshakable. And a lot of these concerns and worries and anxieties that you have really do subside because you know that despite all of the outside noise, what you cultivate on the inside is what actually matters.
- [71:40]
Tom Bilyeu
I love it. Candace Owens, thank you very much for joining me. Where can people follow along with you?
- [71:45]
Candace Owens
Oh, I guess you can find me anywhere. Don't believe what they say about me on Wikipedia. It's all lies. You can find me on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, wherever you listen. It's called the Candace show, and we dive into so many different topics, you'll never get bored. I think somebody once wrote in a hit piece about me and I really appreciated it. They called it Conservative Gumbo. I quite liked that. Nice you never know what you're going to get.
- [72:09]
Tom Bilyeu
Too true. All right, everybody. If you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care. Peace.
- [72:17]
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