Temple Grandiin: Unleasing the Power of Autistic Minds in Society and Industry

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Tony Mantor: Why Not Me?

Episode: Temple Grandin – Unleashing the Power of Autistic Minds in Society and Industry

Release Date: December 24, 2025
Host: Tony Mantor
Guest: Dr. Temple Grandin

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Episode Overview

This episode features Dr. Temple Grandin, one of the world’s leading advocates for autism awareness and renowned figure in animal science. The conversation offers an insightful journey through Temple’s early diagnosis, her childhood challenges, education, career milestones, and her advocacy for practical approaches to harnessing autistic talents in society and industry. The episode serves as inspiration and practical guidance for autistic individuals, caregivers, employers, and broader society, focusing on breaking stigmas and maximizing the contributions of neurodiverse minds.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Childhood & Communication Challenges

• Diagnosis and Frustration:
  Temple discusses not speaking until age four and the deep frustration that came from being unable to communicate basic needs, leading to tantrums.

  “I can remember the absolute frustration of not being able to communicate...I would pitch a big tantrum because I couldn't tell people how I...if I wanted something.”
  (Temple Grandin, 03:47)

• First Solutions:
  She stresses the importance of giving nonverbal children ways to communicate, even with simple picture boards.

  “The first thing you gotta do is give these little kids a way to communicate.”
  (Temple Grandin, 04:06)

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2. School Experiences and the Power of Shared Interests

• Elementary School Success:
  Temple thrived in a small classroom with coordinated support from her mother and teacher. She excelled in art, which her mother encouraged her to diversify.

  “If a kid is fixated...let's...broaden it and develop the area of strength.”
  (Temple Grandin, 05:15)

• Bullying in High School:
  She describes high school as “the worst part” of her life due to bullying, noting that shared interests (clubs, sports) provided respite.

  “The only places I was not bullied was where there was a shared interest.”
  (Temple Grandin, 06:17)

• Advocacy for Shared Interests:
  Emphasizes clubs (model rockets, robotics, art) as vital spaces for acceptance and belonging for autistic teens.

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3. Developing Life and Work Skills

• Importance of Practical Work:
  Temple highlights early work experiences, such as caring for a horse barn, as crucial for her growth. She laments that many autistic youth today lack vital life and work skills (shopping, banking, ordering food).

  “A lot of autistic kids aren't learning work skills....They've got to learn these skills.”
  (Temple Grandin, 07:58)

• Mentorship’s Impact:
  Throughout her education, mentors and supportive teachers played a key role in her trajectory.

  “I can’t emphasize how important these mentors are.”
  (Temple Grandin, 10:30)

• Seeking Help Early:
  Temple underscores asking for help as soon as difficulty arises, rather than waiting until failing, sharing her own need for tutoring in math.

  “Too many students today wait until they're failing the end of the course before they ask for help.”
  (Temple Grandin, 10:59)

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4. Finding and Focusing on Her Calling

• Transition to Animal Science:
  A pivotal move to animal science (encouraged by Professor Philip Stiles) helped Temple discover her passion for humane livestock handling.

  “He let me go on field trips...He was one of these professors...where teaching was his primary thing, and he helped me make the switch.”
  (Temple Grandin, 10:13)

• Importance of Showing Work:
  Temple credits her confidence and success to showing examples of her work (drawings, designs) rather than focusing on personal interviews.

  “I learned to sell my work rather than myself.”
  (Temple Grandin, 19:37)

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5. Public Recognition, Advocacy & the HBO Movie

• Portrayal in Media:
  Temple affirms the accuracy of her HBO biopic, especially in depicting her visual thinking and life story.

  “It shows visual thinking absolutely accurately...Claire Danes perfectly imitated my voice and mannerisms.”
  (Temple Grandin, 12:40 & 13:04)

• Impact of Fame:
  The film and her books led to a significant increase in public speaking opportunities and parent outreach.

  “It got a whole lot busier with speaking engagements.”
  (Temple Grandin, 13:37)

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6. Addressing Employment and Skill Gaps

• Autistic Employment Crisis:
  Temple and Tony discuss the alarming 70–80% unemployment/underemployment rate for autistic adults. She outlines strengths of the three main types of autistic thinkers:

  • Object Visualizers (mechanical, artistic)
  • Mathematical Pattern Thinkers (technical, programming)
  • Word Thinkers (facts, specialized sales)

• Loss of Hands-On Learning:
  Temple worries vocational classes are vanishing, limiting opportunities for practical minds.

  “One of the worst things they did in some of the schools was taking out hands on classes.”
  (Temple Grandin, 17:30)

• Need for Early and Ongoing Job Experience:
  Advocates two summer jobs before graduation and alternatives to traditional interviews for job placement.

  “Let’s just get rid of all the interviews...and work on back doors into jobs.”
  (Temple Grandin, 19:28)

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7. Practical Accommodations at Work

• Checklist Approach:
  For roles requiring sequences, Temple recommends written instructions (“pilot’s checklist”) for clarity.

  “Written bullet point directions save a lot of jobs.”
  (Temple Grandin, 15:40)

• Matching Talent With Industry Needs:
  Describes ideal jobs for visual thinkers (mechanics, maintenance) and pattern thinkers (engineering), highlighting that many crucial trades and high-tech roles suit autistic strengths.

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8. Mental Health and Suicide Risk

• Lifelong Management of Anxiety:
  Temple openly discusses her experience with biological anxiety and the transformative effect of appropriate medication.

  “I don’t think I’d even be alive today if I hadn’t gone on the right medication.”
  (Temple Grandin, 23:32)

• Value of Good Careers:
  Having meaningful work is identified as a buffer against despair and suicide among autistic adults.

  “This is one of the reasons why we need to get people into...really good careers.”
  (Temple Grandin, 25:29)

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9. Broader Societal and Structural Barriers

• Housing Crisis:
  The lack of affordable housing, especially after aging out of support systems, is a critical barrier for autistic individuals.

  “There [is] a big problem with enough low income housing.”
  (Temple Grandin, 21:35)

• Late Diagnosis & Acceptance:
  Temple emphasizes that diagnosis in adulthood can be transformative, especially in relationships, and references her book Different, Not Less featuring firsthand accounts.

  “Their relationships became a whole lot easier.”
  (Temple Grandin, 22:50)

• Aging Infrastructure and Workforce Loss:
  She notes the risk of losing skilled autistic older workers in technical infrastructure, highlighting how systems are breaking down as specialists retire.

  “You've got old systems on top of old systems...and they're starting to fall apart now because the people who made the old systems [are] retiring.”
  (Temple Grandin, 29:08)

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10. Changing Perceptions and Fostering Understanding

• Destigmatization Progress:
  Early misconceptions, like blaming mothers for autism, are disappearing, replaced by better early interventions, though high-school-to-work transitions lag behind.

  “A big thing when I was a young child is that they blamed mothers for it. That's absolute rubbish. That's gone away.”
  (Temple Grandin, 27:45)

• Not a ‘Death Sentence’—A Different Operating System:
  Temple reframes autism as “a different operating system,” noting historical figures likely on the spectrum.

  “Einstein didn't speak till age 3. He'd be labeled autistic today. Michelangelo was really autistic. Steve Jobs. Elon Musk has come out that he was autistic.”
  (Temple Grandin, 30:22)

• Concrete Advice for Employers and Society:
  Temple shares practical suggestions: avoid rapid-multitask jobs for autistic people, provide non-flickering lighting, focus on structured guidance.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The only places I was not bullied was where there was a shared interest.”
  (Temple Grandin, 06:17)

• “I learned to sell my work rather than myself.”
  (Temple Grandin, 19:37)

• “Common sense is visual thinking. But we have a school system now. It's screening out visual thinkers.”
  (Temple Grandin, 21:02)

• “I take a very practical approach. And there’s no theory in my talks.”
  (Temple Grandin, 31:57)

• “It's a different operating system. Might be a good way of putting it.”
  (Temple Grandin, 30:22)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Segment | Timestamps | |----------------------------------------------|---------------| | Early diagnosis and communication | 03:18–04:24 | | School experiences, bullying, and art | 04:24–07:11 | | Work skills and teenage years | 07:11–08:18 | | Transition to college and career mentors | 08:18–10:59 | | Animal science, career discovery | 11:00–12:34 | | The HBO movie and its accuracy | 12:34–13:24 | | Impact of public exposure and speaking | 13:24–14:23 | | Employment issues and strengths of autism | 15:40–20:12 | | The urgent need for job skills | 19:09–21:05 | | Housing crisis and adulthood challenges | 21:05–22:41 | | Adult diagnosis and impact on relationships | 22:41–23:06 | | Anxiety, medication, and suicide risk | 23:17–25:29 | | Societal progress and awareness | 27:34–29:46 | | Changing perceptions and advice to society | 30:00–32:00 |

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Takeaways

• Shared interests and practical skills are critical for autistic success and social integration.
• Employers and educators should match autistic strengths with job roles, foster hands-on learning, and provide structured tools (like checklists).
• Destigmatization and understanding autism as “a different operating system” can unlock the hidden talents of millions.
• Ensuring practical work opportunities and basic life skills can profoundly improve the wellbeing of autistic people—and benefit society at large.

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Next Episode: Part two of the Temple Grandin interview continues next week, building on these foundational insights.

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Transcript

[ON3 College Football Announcer]

College football never stops. When college football news breaks, it breaks on on three. From the transfer portal to the playoff race, to coaching changes, the sport is moving every single day. That's why college football fans turn to ON3, a trusted authority with real reporters and real communities built around the teams you care about. Find all of your favorite teams and join the community. Get the full [e-mail] that's on and the number3.com.

[Believe Podcast Host]

Happy Holidays. Want to give your host a gift? Consider subscribing, rating and reviewing the show this holiday season. It really helps the show grow. From all of us at Believe, have a Merry Christmas, everyone and a happy holiday.

[Tony Mantour]

Welcome to why Not Me Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide. Hosted by Tony Mantour, broadcasting from the heart of Music City, usa, Nashville, Tennessee. Join us as our guests share their raw, powerful stories. Some will spark laughter, others will move you to tears. These real life journeys inspire, connect, and remind you that you're never alone. We're igniting a global movement to empower everyone to make a lasting difference by fostering deep awareness, unwavering acceptance, and profound understanding of autism and mental health. Tune in, be inspired and join us in transforming the world one story at a time. Hi, I'm Tony Mantour. Welcome to why not me? Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide. We're taking a break over the holidays and want to share some of our favorite moments from the past couple of years. With that said, I want to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and Happy holidays. One of my favorite episodes was with Temple Grandin, the first of a two part series that launched my second year of podcasting. It's a true standout and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. As many of you know, Temple is one of the world's most renowned autistic women with a remarkable list of achievements. We don't have time to cover them all here, but it's an honor to feature her on this show. So before we dive into our episode, we'll be back with an uninterrupted show right after a word from our sponsors.

[ON3 College Football Announcer]

College football never stops. When college football news breaks, it breaks on on three. From the transfer portal to the playoff race to coaching changes, the sport is moving every single day. That's why college football fans turn to ON three. A trusted authority with real reporters and real communities built around the teams you care about. Find all of your favorite teams and join the community. Get the full [e-mail] that's on and the number3.com.

[Tony Mantour]

Thanks for joining us today.

[Temple Grandin]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Tony Mantour]

Oh, the pleasure's all mine. So one of my first questions I'd like to ask is, you was diagnosed at an early age and it was about, I think, three years before you could start talking. What's one of your first childhood memories and what does it mean to you?

[Temple Grandin]

No, I actually got into therapy by two and a half years old. Okay. And I didn't get full speech until 4.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

Now slow to respond and slow in my speech until about age five.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

And I can remember the absolute frustration of not being able to communicate.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

And I would pitch a big tantrum because I couldn't tell people how I if I wanted something.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

And I remember over the day I didn't want to wear a hat and I just was screaming and throwing it out the car window and we were driving to the speech therapy school.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

And the first thing you gotta do is give these little kids a way to communicate.

[Tony Mantour]

Sure.

[Temple Grandin]

You know, it's just a picture port, but something so they communicate some needs. Like they need to use a toilet.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

They're hungry, they're cold, you know, just basic things like that.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay, so now you just mentioned school. Once you have the ability to speak and communicate the way that you wanted to, then you transition to school. So how was your school experience?

[Temple Grandin]

I transitioned into a small local school, into a normal first kindergarten class at age 5 and went for half a day. It was very small and that was important. I would not have worked in a 30 kid classroom. I would have had to have had an aide and mother and the teacher worked together.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

The rules were the same at Holman School. Really, really good. I had a tantrum like in first or second grade on there would be no television that night, whether it happened at school or it happened at home. And I was very good at art.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

And my mother always encouraged my ability in art.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

And I'd draw the same horse's head over and over again. And mother's always draw the whole horse. Then she'd encourage using other media than pencil, like maybe watercolor paints. Doing different. Always a broadening. You know, if a kid is fixated on a certain type of truck, then let's. There's other kinds of trucks, there's other trains other than Thomas the Tank Engine. Sure, you want to broaden it and you can tap into that fixation, but broaden it and develop the area of strength. And so I had a good time in elementary school. High school was a disaster of bullying and teasing. Just a disaster. And the reason I got through primary school or elementary school without bullying is Mrs. Teach, the head teacher told the other students that I had a disability that was not visible like a wheelchair.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

They explained that to the other children.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

So I managed to get through sixth grade, up to 12 years old.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

Not being bullied.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

And high school was just horrible. And the only places I was not bullied was where there was a shared interest. I was. I played just pick up volleyball. And then I got kicked out of a regular school for throwing a book at a girl.

[Tony Mantour]

I was actually going to ask you about that.

[Temple Grandin]

Went to special high school. I was a terrible student. So they put me to work on taking care of the horse barn, cleaning stalls every day. But if I went riding with my friend, then I was not bullied. Friends who shared interests, I cannot emphasize enough. My science teacher had a model rocket club.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

Today it's going to be robotics club. Sure. But those are the kind of places where a child would not be bullied. Friends who shared interests. Super important.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay. You brought up your teen years and being in high school. So that's one of the toughest times, is during the high school years and especially for females.

[Temple Grandin]

It's a worst part of my life. Absolute worst part of my life. I've had reporters ask me, what would you tell your younger self? I tell my teenage self, oh, after your teenage years, things will get a lot better.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay, so during your formative years, did anything happen or what did that do to help you become what you are today?

[Temple Grandin]

When you say formative years, you mean younger school years?

[Tony Mantour]

Probably your teen years between 13 and 19.

[Temple Grandin]

Well, I, I was very good at building things. I did a lot of that kind of activity.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

One thing I learned, I was at the boarding school to learn how to work. A lot of autistic kids today are not learning work skills, okay. Out of the fact that basically I was in charge of the school's horse barn.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

I cleaned stalls, I put them in and out, I fed them.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

I. A lot of autistic kids aren't learning work skills. I'm seeing too many fully verbal, smart autistic teenagers who have never gone shopping, they've never ordered food in a restaurant, they don't have a bank account.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

They've got to learn these skills.

[Tony Mantour]

Sure.

[Temple Grandin]

And they're not being taught. Okay.

[Tony Mantour]

So you managed to get through your high school years, then after that you found your way going to college.

[Temple Grandin]

Yes.

[Tony Mantour]

So how was the transition from high school to college? How did that work out?

[Temple Grandin]

Oh, way much better. My science teacher when I was in high school got me motivated to study. Now I couldn't do higher math. I'm one of these visual thinkers. Can't do higher math. I failed the SAT in algebra. I went into college on probation. But at this point I had decided to turn it around and study. I was motivated now to study.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

And when I failed my first math quiz, I got tutoring. And I managed to get through it with a ton of tutoring. And then I majored in psychology to avoid the math classes. And I had some bullying even in college.

[Tony Mantour]

Wow.

[Temple Grandin]

And one of the things that helped me was, I think it was my junior year. So there was a big variety show that my college put on. I went to small college, only had 500, few hundred students. And I went and it's variety show that they had and I made scenery for it and I sung a silly song that helped my social life a whole lot.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

Again, that's a shared interest. I can't emphasize that enough. And then I went out to my aunt's ranch. That got me up. But I was going out there even when I was in high school. But I can't emphasize enough exposing these kids to enough different things so they can get interested in the things that could become a career.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

My cattle exposure all started as teenager.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay, so you learned by being around cattle on farms while you was a teenager. And then that grew and you went to college. When did you decide that this was going to be your calling and how did that happen?

[Temple Grandin]

Well, I've then started to the year towards a master's degree in experimental psychology that did not work out.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

So I went over to the animal science department and ran into a professor named Philip Stiles.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

I gotta thank Philip for getting me into that. He let me go on field trips with his food technology class even though I wasn't enrolled in the class. He was one of these professors that where teaching was his primary thing, right. And he helped me make the switch. I got to really thank him for doing that.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

I got to thank Mr. Carlock, my science teacher. I can't emphasize how important these mentors are. And you see, by this time I got decent grades. I was serious, right. And I had got AC in statistics, had to be tutored. I had another graduate student tutor me. And one of the things I did right is when I failed my first quiz, I got help. Too many students today wait until they're failing the end of the course before they ask for help.

[Tony Mantour]

Right?

[Temple Grandin]

I asked for help when I failed the first quiz.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay, so now you've made the transition into the cattle. When did you start to realize that this just may be your calling to help change the way people thought about treating cattle humanely?

[Temple Grandin]

First of all, I just was interested in designing equipment and I went out to every feed yard and I worked cattle and I saw good things in the designs, bad things in the designs, and I kind of thought I could design a self managing cattle handling system.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

And then another thing I did from a job standpoint, that was really good. There's a scene in the Temple Brandon HBO movie where I get the editor's card from our local state farm magazine.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

And I start writing for that magazine. That was very important for my career. And I had the guts to go up and get the card.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

A lot of people wouldn't have had. And you know why I had the guts? Because in the 50s, right. Oh. Elementary school kids had self candy for charity.

[Tony Mantour]

Yes.

[Temple Grandin]

You had to talk to people. Elementary kids. And they're seven or eight years old. In my generation, when the parents had a party, you put your good clothes on and you greeted the guests. And you're a little hosted hostess.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

That taught going up to people and talking to them.

[Tony Mantour]

That's so good. I'm really glad that you brought up your HBO movie. Hollywood has a reputation at some times of putting some things in that that just embellished the facts a little bit. Was you happy with the HBO movie they did and was it pretty true what really happened during your life?

[Temple Grandin]

Let's talk about the stuff that's absolutely accurate.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

It shows visual thinking absolutely accurately. Also discussed visual thinking in my book, early autobiography, Thinking in pictures. I've got another book that just came out on visual thinking. My visual thinking is shown accurately in that movie. And the projects I designed are all accurate. Those two things are really accurate. The main people and at the ranch, Mr. Carlock and my mother are shown very nicely.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

That's on the most important stuff. Yeah. They had a wild horse and now it was kind of excessively crazy, but the things that were really important were accurate. Also. Claire Danes perfectly imitated my voice and mannerisms. I gave her every ancient VHS tape I could find for her to study.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay. So once they did the movie and it was out there, your life got exposed more to the world. How did that change your life and what happened after the movie came out?

[Temple Grandin]

Well, it got a whole lot busier with speaking engagements.

[Tony Mantour]

Sure.

[Temple Grandin]

And I have. I was just out in Illinois. I had some parents come up to Me, I have people come to me.

[Tony Mantour]

In the airport, right?

[Temple Grandin]

Tell me that they heard one of my talks 10 years ago or read one of my books 10 years ago, and their kid is doing really well in their job, and they thank me. One of the problems I'm seeing on the fully verbal end of the autism spectrum is parents do too much for their kids. Overprotective. They aren't learning enough basic skills.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay, like.

[Temple Grandin]

Okay, like, ask their question at the conference. Mom will start to ask the question. And I go, give the mic to your son. Yeah, not yet. That son. To talk to the whole room.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

Ask his question.

[Tony Mantour]

Yeah. That's awesome. That's building upon the person.

[Temple Grandin]

Yeah.

[Tony Mantour]

Yes. And I'm so glad that you brought that up. I've spoken with so many parents over the last year, and the common statement that I get is that they have to love their kids unconditionally and show them that they can have a decent life. I think you're the perfect example to show this. You've written books, you've gone to college. You're one of the top 10 professors in the country. You do public speaking around the world. You changed the complete industry of cattle, and you had the documentary about your life. People look at you as such an inspiration. I had one autistic woman tell me that you're her hero because of all the things that you do. So I think what you've done shows all these people that may have gone through or are going through some of the same things that you have, you give them hope because you did it so they feel they can.

[Temple Grandin]

Well, that. That. That's true. And the thing is, there's some accommodations you do need.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

And one of the things at work that's really important, I cannot remember long verbal sequences of information.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

So if I have to work at Walmart and I have to close out the cash register, please give me a pilot's checklist.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

With the steps to close out the cash register.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

Written bullet point directions save a lot of jobs.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay, that's great. So now I'm really glad that you brought up the topic about jobs. I was speaking to a person just last week, and he was telling me that in the autistic world, at least 70 to 80% are either unemployed or. Or underemployed.

[Temple Grandin]

That's true.

[Tony Mantour]

So what can we as a society do to help them integrate into the workforce and show these people that are actually hiring that autistic people can contribute to their bottom line?

[Temple Grandin]

Well, autism comes in three types, Right. The Fully verbal, the object visualizer, like me who thinks in photorealistic pictures which are shown in the movie. We're good at mechanical things, anything mechanical, art, photography and animals. Then you have a mathematical type that thinks in patterns. And then you have a word thinker that's very, very good with facts about their favorite subject. Now I worked with a lot of people that were definitely autistic, owned metal fabrication shops and they were inventing mechanical equipment. But these are people my age, my generation and I have granddads and grandmoms come up to me all the time where they were employed in good jobs because they learned how to work at an early age. They had paper routes and we got to find substitutes for paper routes where they're working for somebody outside the family, like maybe a church volunteer job or walking the neighbor's dog or helping out at the farmer's market. Something that some. Because a lot of the fully verbal ones were employed. I think one of the worst things they did in some of the schools was taking out hands on classes.

[Tony Mantour]

Yeah, I agree. That taught a lot of people a lot of good trades.

[Temple Grandin]

And I discussed that in visual thinking. That's for my kind of thinker.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

But then half the people that build computers and all that kind of stuff are probably on the spectrum.

[Tony Mantour]

Yeah.

[Temple Grandin]

And program computers, they are the mathematical side of it. And then you have the word thinker. And where those people can be really good. And there's been some real successes is specialized retail because they'll memorize every car on the lot and help somebody buy the right car. Not the most expensive car, the right car.

[Tony Mantour]

Sure.

[Temple Grandin]

And there's been some big successes in auto dealerships. Really big successes. Selling sporting goods, selling specialized business insurance, selling specialized banking products. I did a talk with a bank and. And something that's highly specialized and their knowledge is appreciated by the customer.

[Tony Mantour]

Yes, that's so true. Now that is one thing that I have talked with with numerous people and that is about people that are so focused and how they will dig in and learn everything they can about that particular subject.

[Temple Grandin]

That's right.

[Tony Mantour]

So what can we do as a society to help people that are that focused and are willing to put the time in to learn and make that transition into the workforce.

[Temple Grandin]

Well, we need to be where we're really falling down is on the job front. I'm seeing students graduating with honors from college and not handle the workplace right. Because they never had any working skills. Now ideally I'd like to have two summer jobs under that belt before they graduate. My School.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

But I want to emphasize it's never too late to start, but a sudden, you know, okay, all of a sudden we throw them into the workplace. That's not going to work. The other thing we need to be doing is let's just get rid of all the interviews and things like that and work on back doors into jobs.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay?

[Temple Grandin]

Because the way I sold jobs, I learned to sell my work. Here's one of my drawings right here. It's in thinking in pictures.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

I would show off my work. I learned to sell my work rather than myself.

[Tony Mantour]

Sure. Well, that makes perfect sense.

[Temple Grandin]

That's what I did. And the thing is we need the skills, right? Right. Now we've got a huge skill loss situation in people that can fix mechanical equipment and invent mechanical equipment. Like for example, you want to build a chicken processing plant, you've got to buy the equipment from Holland.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

Goes back to ninth grade. A kid can pick university or pick tech. We stick our nose up at tech.

[Tony Mantour]

Yeah, unfortunately that's so true.

[Temple Grandin]

And there's a lot of stuff we're not building. Lots of food processing equipment comes out of Italy.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

And for the visual type of person like me, those are perfect jobs.

[Tony Mantour]

Sure.

[Temple Grandin]

Then you have the Silicon Valley computer type jobs. Good for the mathematicians, right. Now I've seen some bad stuff just recently. Elementary school, fourth grader, third grader, make them do baby math over and over again. They get bored and they turn into behavior problem.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

That kid that's a brainiac in math needs to be moved ahead in math, right?

[Tony Mantour]

Absolutely.

[Temple Grandin]

I'll make them do boring baby math. Move them ahead.

[Tony Mantour]

Yes, yes.

[Temple Grandin]

They might need help in reading, but move them ahead in math, Right.

[Tony Mantour]

It comes down to common sense.

[Temple Grandin]

I think we're losing common sense.

[Tony Mantour]

Yes, I totally agree.

[Temple Grandin]

And I think common sense is visual thinking.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

But we have a school system now. It's screening out visual thinkers, Right. I don't some states I couldn't graduate high school because I can't pass Albert. Never have.

[Tony Mantour]

Yeah, right. That totally makes sense. So once we get past that, we have another big issue for autistic people and that's housing. Everyone I talk with in just about every state says that housing for autistic people is so slim. And it's a real big issue for everyone.

[Temple Grandin]

Well, there a big problem with enough low income housing. That's a huge problem. Like in the fancy ski resorts, right. People run the lifts and stuff like that. They can't afford the housing.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

These are non autistic people. Can't Afford the house.

[Tony Mantour]

Yeah, exactly.

[Temple Grandin]

And then I read a hideous article just the other day about these investors buy up a whole bunch of apartment buildings and using computerized systems to evict tenants. I was just about very angry when I read this. Just stealing it. Yeah.

[Tony Mantour]

Different states have different ages, but usually between 18 and 21, they age out for being able to get help.

[Temple Grandin]

That's right.

[Tony Mantour]

So how can we help those that are diagnosed at a later time in life to learn? Because. Because I had one lady that, she said she was diagnosed like around 45 and she said I lost four decades of my life because it took me three to five years to figure it out. And then 50s was, was great. And she just turned 16. She's had a great, great 10 years. So how do we help those that feel alone and feel. Feel kind of cast out?

[Temple Grandin]

Well, those ones that are diagnosed later in life. I have a book called different not less where 18 and people diagnosed later in life tell about their experiences.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

These all had jobs, all different kinds of jobs. Yes. Helped with relationships. That's where the diagnosis really, really made a difference. Their relationships became a whole lot easier.

[Tony Mantour]

Sure.

[Temple Grandin]

And that, that's something that's really important.

[Tony Mantour]

Yeah, I think that's very important because I think one of the things they need to learn is that they don't need to be forced into society. They can fit into it all by themselves.

[Temple Grandin]

Well, that's right. And is. I had horrible issues with anxiety, which I discussed in my earlier book, Thinking in Pictures.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

And I've been on antidepressant medication for 40 years.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

And all the stress related health issues I had colitis and stuff cleared up. And I would recommend if you have a lot of anxiety, to read the chapter and hear about the medication, because I don't think I'd even be alive today if I hadn't gone on the right medication. Now way too many drugs are given out to little kids. It's disgusting.

[Tony Mantour]

Absolutely.

[Temple Grandin]

But a little bit of the right thing can sometimes really make a difference because my problem with the constant anxiety was biological.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

And my fear system was just turned on for no reason.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

Biological.

[Tony Mantour]

Right. So now I'm really glad that you brought up the anxiety because that kind of leads me into my next question for you. This concerns a very serious issue and unfortunately affects a lot of autistic people around the world. The numbers are staggering on this and we have to do something about it because if we don't change this, then everything we've talked about doesn't matter. I have read that autistic people make up 1% of the total population in the world. An alarming 66% of the people have thought about this, with 11% actually following through with it, which makes it the second most leading cause of death among autistic people in the world. And that's, unfortunately, suicide. How can we as a society help them so that they can change everything and look at life a little differently so they can have a better life without all the anxiety?

[Temple Grandin]

Well, getting them into decent jobs because when I. I worked 25 years in heavy construction, okay. This would have been 70s, 80s and 90s, I was out on construction projects supervising installation of equipment that I had designed.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

Working with people that owned shops that were autistic.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

And they had decent jobs. And I'm not going to say their lives were totally, you know, stress free. They weren't.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

But they were definitely not committing suicide.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

I mean, this is one of the reasons why we need to get people into. Into really good careers.

[Tony Mantour]

Yes.

[Temple Grandin]

And I tell business people we need their skills. I have been on very questionable elevators lately.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

I found an elevator the other day in a hotel, brand name hotel. Piece of white paper in there for the inspection certificate.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

It's not getting serviced. Elevators making weird screeching noises.

[Tony Mantour]

Wow.

[Temple Grandin]

And for the visual thinkers like me, who can't do math.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

Elevator mechanic would be a perfect job. Airplane mechanic.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

There's all this trouble with Boeing.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

Who do you want assembling your rudder bolts?

[Tony Mantour]

Yeah.

[Temple Grandin]

I'd rather have somebody autistic putting together the rudder pedal mechanism. The pilot goes to land the plane and the rudder pedals don't work. Yeah. I wanted to steer the plane.

[Tony Mantour]

Absolutely.

[Temple Grandin]

And what I learned in working in construction is that I worked with a lot of mechanical people that were definitely autistic. And they were the best people you had.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

For building things, figuring out mechanical stuff, taking care of it.

[Tony Mantour]

Yeah.

[Temple Grandin]

We need skills. And then you have the mathematicians. Let's go back to the food processing plant. The mathematicians will design the boilers and refrigeration, and the visual thinkers like me build and invent mechanical devices for food processing.

[Tony Mantour]

Yeah, exactly. I spoke with one person and he said that if you walk into a pharmaceutical lab, chances are if you throw a dart, you'll hit someone that's working there that is definitely autistic.

[Temple Grandin]

Well, exactly. We need the skills.

[Tony Mantour]

Yes.

[Temple Grandin]

Mystic mind gets really interested in the stuff they do. Right. I mean, I just love. I sat on a plane one time next to a lady and we talked about tilt up warehouse construction for the entire flight now. That's a good flight.

[Tony Mantour]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Temple Grandin]

That's just some interesting.

[Tony Mantour]

Right, right.

[Temple Grandin]

It's just so interesting.

[Tony Mantour]

Right. So now you've seen the best of autistic world, and you've seen the worst of the autistic world.

[Temple Grandin]

Yes, I have.

[Tony Mantour]

How have you seen it change since you as a young child to now? Because I know that it's changed dramatically, but we still got a long ways to go.

[Temple Grandin]

Well, a big thing when I was a young child is that they blamed mothers for it. That's absolute rubbish. That's gone away.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

And we're doing a better job now with little kids. You know, you're on certain states. Some states have very good programs for early intervention with little children that are not speed. Yeah, but where we're falling down is a transition to the work world.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

They're not doing any life skills in the high schools. It's all, you know, academics.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

What good is having a magna cum laude Debris. If you just end up in your bedroom playing video games.

[Tony Mantour]

Exactly.

[Temple Grandin]

That's not very good.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

And these kids are not becoming video game designers.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

Tell you how to get them off the video games. Something that's been very successful. Auto mechanics.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Temple Grandin]

It's actually been very successful. And they've gotten good jobs. And I tell business people, we need these people. You live in a fancy apartment building. Would you like the water system to work in that building?

[Tony Mantour]

Right, right, exactly.

[Temple Grandin]

But to have somebody that cares about the water system.

[Tony Mantour]

Absolutely.

[Temple Grandin]

Right now we have computer systems failing in weird ways.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

AT&T broke down before ours and it broke my United messaging thing for United Airlines in a very strange way.

[Tony Mantour]

Wow.

[Temple Grandin]

Perfectly. In Minneapolis, I only get one text message. In Denver went to another city, I got half the text messages.

[Tony Mantour]

Wow.

[Temple Grandin]

That's very weird.

[Tony Mantour]

Yeah. Yeah, it is.

[Temple Grandin]

It breaks it differently in different places. Well, I can tell you why. Because you've got old systems on top of old systems on top of old systems.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

And they're starting to fall apart now because the people who made the old systems retiring.

[Tony Mantour]

Right, right, exactly.

[Temple Grandin]

There they can. They can remember. Well, we used some Fortran to do this. And I can't believe some of the antique equipment I've seen. I was at the airport recently and watched this file drawer open up behind one of the gate desks. There was an antique teletype machine in there.

[Tony Mantour]

Wow.

[Temple Grandin]

Wow. Yeah. I'm going. I looked at that. I'm going. You're using that antique. You've got to be Kidding. Yeah. Major airline.

[Tony Mantour]

Yeah.

[Temple Grandin]

I don't even remember which airport it was. It was not Denver, my home airport. Yeah. But I just saw. I just now look at this figure of this drawer opening, like a filing cabinet, this antique in it, like something I used in the late 70s and early 80s.

[Tony Mantour]

Right. I think one of the things that we absolutely have to get out there is for people like me, a year ago, I knew nothing about autism. And I think that people need to get a better understanding because I think they have this perception that if you are diagnosed autistic, then it's a death sentence. And it's so far from that in the real world.

[Temple Grandin]

Well, it's a different operating system might be a good way of putting it. Einstein didn't speak until age 3. He'd be labeled autistic today.

[Tony Mantour]

Exactly.

[Temple Grandin]

Michelangelo was really autistic. Steve Jobs. Elon Musk has come out that he was autistic.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

He was also very badly bullied as a child and thrown down the stairs and has face smashed.

[Tony Mantour]

Yeah, yeah. There's just no reason for that.

[Temple Grandin]

No.

[Tony Mantour]

So how do we take and get there? As a society, we need to figure this out because everyone needs to learn and understand more. I've always said that you can accept something because you're aware of it. But just because you're aware of it doesn't mean that you understand. And that's the biggest problem. Because if you don't understand, you can't relate to it. So how do we bridge that gap for understanding?

[Temple Grandin]

Well, that's what I've tried to do in my books. I was write a lot of practical stuff like, okay, don't burden the autistic person with long strings of verbal sequential information. Make pilots checklists.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

Let's keep them out of the rapid multitasking chaos. Jobs at a takeout window.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

Some things like that get rid of LED lights that flicker. See, those are very, very basic things that you can do.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

Having been somebody that worked in very high end skilled trades.

[Tony Mantour]

Sure.

[Temple Grandin]

Best people they had were autistic.

[Tony Mantour]

Yeah.

[Temple Grandin]

And what's happening now, like you take meat plants for example, now.

[Tony Mantour]

Right.

[Temple Grandin]

They don't have anybody there that can fix anything.

[Tony Mantour]

Well, everything you said certainly does make a lot of great sense.

[Temple Grandin]

I take a very practical approach. And there's no theory in my talks.

[Tony Mantour]

Absolutely. And this has been a great conversation. I hope that everyone listening has enjoyed it as much as I've enjoyed bringing it to you. So with that said, remember next week is the second part of the interview with Temple and mark it down on your calendar because we're going to be covering more great topics. Thanks again for coming on to the first episode of my second year of podcasting, and I look forward to having you for even more. Thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule to listen to our show today. We hope you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. If you know someone who has a story to share, tell them to contact us at WhyNotMe World. One last thing, spread the word about why not me. Our conversations are inspiring guests that show you are not alone in this world.

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