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[00:00]
Vivgard Patient
I like things my way. My coffee, my schedule and my treatment.
[00:05]
So I talked to my doctor about self injecting with the Vivgard Hytrulo pre filled syringe which contains fgartigamide alpha and hyaluronidase qvfc. It's injected under your skin subcutaneously.
[00:16]
It means I can inject in my space on my time. It's my treatment, my way. Visit vivgardmyway.com that's V-Y-V-G-A-R-T myway.com and talk.
[00:27]
To your doctor about Vivgart Hytrulo. Brought to you by Argenxx Reggie, I.
[00:32]
Carvana Customer
Just sold my car online.
[00:34]
Grandchild
Let's go, Grandpa. Wait, you did?
[00:36]
Curt Smith
Yep.
[00:36]
Carvana Customer
On Carvana. Just put in the license plate, answered a few questions, got an offer in minutes. Easier than setting up that new digital picture frame.
[00:44]
Grandchild
You don't say.
[00:45]
Carvana Customer
Yeah, they're even picking it up tomorrow. Talk about fast.
[00:48]
Grainger Narrator
Wow.
[00:49]
Grandchild
Way to go. So about that picture frame.
[00:51]
Carvana Customer
Ah, forget about it. Until Carvana makes one, I'm not interested.
[00:55]
Curt Smith
Car selling made easy on Carvana.
[00:59]
Grainger Narrator
Pick up fees may apply. This is the story of the one as an H Vac technician, he and his digital multimeter are in high demand. So when a noisy office H Vac turns out to be a failing blower motor, he doesn't break a sweat. With Grainger's easy to use website and product information, he selects the product he needs to keep everything humming right along. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickranger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.
[01:45]
Tony Mantour
My career in the entertainment industry has enabled me to work with a diverse range of talent. Through my years of experience, I've recognized two essential aspects. Industry professionals, whether famous stars or behind the scenes staff, have fascinating stories to tell. Secondly, audiences are eager to listen to these stories which offer a glimpse into their lives and the evolution of their life stories. This podcast aims to share these narratives, providing information on how they evolve into their chosen career. We will delve into their journey to stardom, discuss their struggles and successes, and hear from people who help them achieve their goals. Get ready for intriguing behind the scenes stories and insights into the fascinating world of entertainment. Hi, I'm Tony Mantour. Welcome to Almost Live Nashville. Joining us today is Kurt Smith of Tears for Fears. His music has defined generations. From chart topping hits that everyone knows to deeper personal songs that continue to resonate decades later, his music has inspired generations and left an unforgettable mark on the world. Over the years he's not only created some of the most memorable songs of our time, he's also inspired countless artists and continues to push the boundaries of what music can be. Today, we'll explore his creative process, we'll talk about his creative journey and get a glimpse of what it's like to keep evolving as an artist while connecting with fans all over the world. So before we dive into our episode, we'll be back with an uninterrupted show right after a word from our sponsors.
[03:27]
Vivgard Patient
I like things my way. My coffee, my schedule and my treatment.
[03:32]
So I talked to my doctor about self injecting with the Vivgard Hyrulo pre filled syringe which contains fgartegamide alpha and hyaluronidase qvfc. It's injected under your skin subcutaneously.
[03:43]
It means I can inject in my space on my time. It's my treatment, my way. Visit vivgardmyway.com that's V-Y-V-G-A-R-T myway.com and talk.
[03:54]
To your doctor about Vivgart Hyrulo. Brought to you by Argenics Reggie, I.
[03:59]
Carvana Customer
Just sold my car online.
[04:00]
Grandchild
Let's go, Grandpa. Wait, you did?
[04:03]
Tony Mantour
Yep.
[04:03]
Carvana Customer
On Carvana. Just put in the license plate, answered a few questions, got an offer in minutes. Easier than setting up that new digital picture frame.
[04:11]
Grandchild
You don't say.
[04:12]
Carvana Customer
Yeah, they're even picking it up tomorrow. Talk about fast.
[04:15]
Curt Smith
Wow.
[04:16]
Grandchild
Way to go. So about that picture frame.
[04:18]
Carvana Customer
Ah, forget about it. Until Carvana makes one, I'm not interested.
[04:22]
Curt Smith
Car selling made easy on Carvana Pick up.
[04:27]
Grainger Narrator
These may apply if you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant. You know, having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why hands down, you count on Grainger for auto reordering. With on time restocks, your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift and you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.
[04:57]
Tony Mantour
Thanks for joining us today.
[04:59]
Curt Smith
Oh, it's my pleasure.
[05:00]
Tony Mantour
I'm always interested in how band names are formed. So how did you come up with Tears for Fears?
[05:06]
Curt Smith
It's a longish story, but I can give you the Cliff Note version. It was from a book by Arthur Janoff called the Prisoners of Pain. We were heavily into Primal theory at the time and big fans of Arthur Janoff. It was a specifically I was reading a book about children's nightmares. So. Sounds quite heavy. The premise was that if children were allowed to be natural, because the nightmares they have normally are invented monsters because they can't really admit to what they're really scared of, which tends to be peers, parents, whatever it may be. But if they allowed to be more natural, if they were allowed to cry, as opposed to told to shut up when they're crying, be quiet or calm down, you know, then they wouldn't have these nightmares. So tears as a replacement for fears. Tears for fears. That's how it came about.
[05:50]
Tony Mantour
I like it. It's very interesting and a great story on how you came up with the name. Now, once you started it, you got it. Going forward, you had success that not many get, as, you know, many people work their way up the ladder, so to speak, and it can take years and years and years. Your first album that you started out with in England, it went to number one. That must have been really satisfying for you.
[06:15]
Curt Smith
Yeah, it was. I mean, we'd worked for a bunch of years since then. I mean, we turned. We signed our first record when we were 18 with a band called Graduate. We had a number one single in Spain and no one else anywhere had heard of us. And we toured all through Europe. And we did this sort of weeks of touring in two vans with us lugging our own gear and playing tiny clubs and doing all this kind of stuff. And Roland and I, at the end of it, we kind of sat down and we decided that this life was not for us. I mean, it became obvious kind of early on where that the other members of the band were kind of into the live playing, they were into the partying, they were into picking up girls. I mean, the reason you get into a band in the first place. And we were really interested in production and all those kind of things, and Arthur Janov and, you know, we were different, basically. And so we decided to, you know, leave that band and stay as a duo. And we then proceeded to sort of start demoing stuff on our own.
[07:10]
Tony Mantour
That's interesting because a lot of people never actually looked at you as a complete duo. They looked to you as a full band.
[07:17]
Curt Smith
Yeah.
[07:17]
Tony Mantour
Did you kind of roll with that perception, or did you eventually get it out there so people could understand that you were indeed a duo?
[07:25]
Curt Smith
Yeah, some people thought we were kind of an entire band because, you know, there were pictures of the band and suddenly in the tour merchandise. But actually when we did press, it was only ever the two of us and the two of us were the only people signed to A record deal. So we were a duo from the beginning. I think there was during songs from the Big Chair, especially because we kind of took off and we were playing live a lot. The programs for the, for the tour had pictures of the whole band. Cause you want to see who the band are. So I think that's where the misconception came from. But we've always just been a duo. I mean, getting the two of us to agree is hard enough without including other people.
[08:00]
Tony Mantour
I get that, Believe me, I totally get that. It's always interesting dealing with one single artist, but when you have two or more people, it can get much tougher. For sure, when you first start working on a contract, there's a lot of give and take going on. How did that work out for you in the beginning? Were you both on board with label and management and what they were thinking or were there a lot of twists and turns between everybody until you finally all came together and got on the same page?
[08:30]
Curt Smith
Well, it definitely took twists and turns. I mean, we were very young, you know, we were 19 with maybe 20 when we signed Deal as Tears for Fears that may not have been 20 yet. And we had an incredibly opinionated A and R man who I'm still friends with and actually when I was back in Bath, saw him a few weeks ago. But we've become friendlier because we don't work together anymore. Yeah, but it was, it was definitely a fight because you know, when you're young and opinionated and kind of know what you want to be surrounded by record company people who are older, more experienced and producers as well. I mean, I would include Chris Hughes in there who think, and in some cases I'll write that they better. And we're young, so we are 100% convinced that we know better because what 19 and 20 year olds do.
[09:14]
Tony Mantour
Exactly.
[09:15]
Curt Smith
So it did lead to some friction without question, you know, but we're eternally grateful to Dave because, you know, we did. We were signed to a publishing deal when we were in graduate. So that publishing deal continued on for a bit. And they're the people that shopped us to record companies. And we went and met with all these record companies. We did play, went in and played the demos. All we had at that point were, I think Pal Shelter and Suffer the Children were the two songs.
[09:40]
Tony Mantour
I think I've been here in Nashville for about 30 something years now working with some of the more well known people. I find that they have many things in common in their travels and journeys to get where they are. One of the very similar things that they have in common is they are not prepared for the success they get overnight, so to speak, with you. Even though you traveled some, when the label signed you, within a very short period of time, you had a number one hit record out there. Then your next record not only does big in the uk, but in the US as well. How did you handle that impact that came to you from that success?
[10:19]
Curt Smith
I mean, in retrospect, it was a bit of a blur. I don't think we handled it that well. I think when we got older we handled it better, which is why it took us so long between records, you know, because we just needed time alone. I mean, Roland and myself, we're not people that like to be in the spotlight, particularly, even though we chose this as a profession, I find it very uncomfortable because people have a preconceived idea about who you're going to be and what you're going to be like. So I find that all kind of weird. I mean, you don't think of this when you're doing it, you think. Because when you first start, or I'm speaking personally, when I first started, it was just a desire to be heard, you know, like, this is my voice, I want people to hear me. And I think that's the same for Roland because we both came from, you know, broken families and middle of three sons and no one really listened to us that much. You know, there were two. I mean, we both had working mothers, so we kind of looked after ourselves. So the desire was to be heard. And then all of a sudden you're kind of a pop idol, especially at that age of 20. So our first shows, which is weird, giving the content of the material, which was the hurting, which was basically an album, a concept album about primal theory, pretty much, yet we were playing to audiences of screaming girls. We were, you know, we were pop idols at that point. We had Smash Hits and all those kind of English magazines putting us on covers because we were good looking young men or boys, I would consider us at that point in time. So the juxtaposition was very strange, especially for me, because I didn't understand why anyone would scream and want to marry you or just you were their idol when they'd never met you. So I found all of that very hard to take. And it became harder when we became big in America. Very hard.
[11:57]
Tony Mantour
Sure, that's very understandable. Now, you brought up an interesting topic and that's perception. What did you think your perception was to what you were putting out versus what People were perceiving you to be a mixture.
[12:12]
Curt Smith
You know, what I didn't understand was. Was primarily a female audience when we first started, because in England you go on Top of the Pops, which is the biggest TV show, and then you become the latest, you know, Cube guy they're looking at, and they're not really listening to the content of the music yet. Having said that, you know, there were. There's certainly a large portion of our audience really did understand what we were trying to say. And they're the ones that have stuck with us all through the years and continue to reinvent. You know, for instance, we play shows now and there'll be 19, 20 year old kids at our shows. And they all relate to the Hurting. That's the album they relate to. And I'm talking about America. And the Hurting wasn't particularly big in America, but it makes sense because the album was written when we were that age.
[12:56]
Tony Mantour
Sure.
[12:57]
Curt Smith
So the amount of times we've had people come up and said, you've got me through my college years, you know, when that album came out. So actually, I think, interestingly, because it was a big college album in America and it was a big op hit in England, the reaction in the two different countries was different. The US audience for the Hurting was a more thinking audience, I think, than the British audience was.
[13:18]
Tony Mantour
I find it interesting when people come up to you or email you and say, you helped me get through this tough situation or you helped me get through college or whatever it might be. The great thing about music is it can be very therapeutic. So what song or songs were people telling you help them get through their trying times?
[13:39]
Curt Smith
Well, certainly most. Most songs on the Hurting specifically, I mean, I think that it became more general by songs from the big chair. So songs like Mad World, which people still today completely relate to, and it may take on different meanings, you know, because other people have covered it. I mean, the Gary Jaws and Michael Andrews version really put it in a completely different light. And then, you know, I'd move on to when Covid happened and Lockdown happened and I did that version with my daughter. That version suddenly went viral out of nowhere because it was. There was something about everyone being locked at home and a father and daughter singing Mad Wild together. That was very moving and touching. So it took on a different meaning then.
[14:22]
Tony Mantour
Yeah, that's absolutely fantastic. With every song a songwriter will have, this song will put their heart and soul into it. Did you put your heart and soul into any songs? And you put it out there knowing what you meant and then the listener, for whatever reason, did not get the message that you were trying to put across.
[14:40]
Curt Smith
Yeah, I mean, they do. And we have had people that just really get the wrong end of the stick completely. But it doesn't really matter that much to us. What matters to us is we've said our piece. I mean, I find the weirdest, weirdest one is, you know, prior to the last election in America, they may have people online and there was an article in National Review, I think whatever the very conservative is that National Review, the very conservative paper here magazine that thought it was like an anthem for, you know, not for the, for the right wing, but, but for capitalism, that everyone should pull up their bootstraps and help themselves. And that was so not what the song was about. The song was about the insane desire for power. And it was a song against Reagan and Margaret Thatcher at the time, you know, because they were choosing to go to war really, to keep their popularity going.
[15:33]
Tony Mantour
Yeah. Now, earlier you said that you was into the production side of it and the studio. When you went in the studio, sometimes you go into it thinking there's going to be a certain way, and then all of a sudden the magic happens and you get a production that you never expected would happen. Did that happen to you at all?
[15:51]
Curt Smith
Well, yeah. I mean, for us, the magic generally doesn't just happen, it's got to be said. Although, you know, one exception would be Everybody Wants to Rule the World, which literally took like two weeks because we thought it was such a light hearted kind of giveaway track. Who knew it would become our biggest song out of anything we wrote? And that was the easiest to do and the easiest to record. But most of the time it was never ending. Arguments, I mean, arguments sort of like discussions and debates about what should be done. And these were the kind of people we worked with. Chris Hughes, our producer early on, Ian Stanley, who played keyboards with us, who was in the studio with us, and Ross Cullum, who also co produced with Chris Hughes. The Hurting. We would have debates about things before even doing anything. You know, in retrospect, when I look back on it, we wasted so much time. Why didn't we just try it and see if it worked or not? But we didn't. We'd have to have the argument to decide who was right or wrong first.
[16:43]
Tony Mantour
Yeah, I get that. I've seen that happen before now. I've been in the studio many times and all of a sudden a guitar player or another musician just does something that takes the song a completely different direction than you ever thought. Did you ever have anything like that happen where something took a completely different direction than you planned? And then when you hear in the end, you go, yeah, that works.
[17:07]
Curt Smith
Yeah. I don't really know because I think that I don't believe that we ever kind of went in. I mean, the hurting. We certainly went in with a game plan. We wanted this album that was effectively a concept album. Songs in the big chair and with. And with Seeds of Love and albums after that. I think that we kind of went in and just kind of wanted to see what would happen. I think that the biggest, you know, the biggest surprise to this day would be everybody wants to rule the world. You know, we wouldn't consider it a particularly great track. The time, you know, it wasn't really over. You know, we were known for big production, or at least we were getting into big production at that point in time. And it's not big production. It is very simple. There's, you know, there's kind of a few parts on it. They just happen to work well off each other. Different tempos and different time signatures that just came together. And because it was so easy to do, we never really thought it was that it couldn't be that great. Of course, it goes on to do what it did, you know.
[18:02]
Tony Mantour
Yeah. Sometimes things just work. Now, when you look back, is there anything that you look back and say, you know, I think I would change this, I would change that. Anything that comes to mind.
[18:15]
Curt Smith
Well, you've worked with artists. You know what the answer to that's going to be. I'd change most things, probably. You know, I mean, the thing is, you have to get to a point where you're like, okay, this is good enough, because otherwise you could keep going forever. Because we are incredibly fussy and we keep trying to attain more as far as standard of recording goes. So at some point you've got to say, yeah, that's really good. And if we get to a point where we say, that's really good, then we're okay. We've never got to the point where we went, that's brilliant. Because we don't think we're that good, which is why we continue to do it, because, you know, you continue to struggle to be better. And, you know, I listen to albums now and I'll listen to a Bon Iver record and go, that's better than anything I've ever done, but that's what keeps me going.
[19:03]
Tony Mantour
Yeah, I totally get that. What's up for the future? What are your plans for 2026.
[19:09]
Curt Smith
We don't make long term plans, particularly because we've been doing this long enough that they tend to some, you know, life happens and something can come up and change it. All right now we get the last week in January. In three weeks we go into the studio and start recording again. And we'll see where that takes us. We have a bunch of songs, but some of them may stick, some of them may not. And we'll work together on fresh new material and then if it all works out, we'll take it out live. But that's, you know, that's for the future. Once we've kind of got the. Some of the recording process going.
[19:41]
Tony Mantour
Any touring plans locked in for this year yet?
[19:44]
Curt Smith
Nothing. Locked in is just sort of on the horizon, you know, I think we're. For us, we want to wait to see how the recording goes first and foremost, you know, because that could, that could happen quickly. That could take us a year, two years, who knows, you know, that's kind of what we're concentrating on right now.
[20:02]
Tony Mantour
Yeah, that totally makes sense. You've got a show coming up here where you're working with a chair called Joey Song.
[20:08]
Curt Smith
Right.
[20:08]
Tony Mantour
Can you tell us how that came to happen?
[20:10]
Curt Smith
My friend Butch Fig is very convincing.
[20:14]
Tony Mantour
Yeah, he's been on talking about it as well.
[20:16]
Curt Smith
Yeah, we toured with Garbage a couple of years ago. And Butch is, you know, who's a wonderful guy. In fact, the whole band. It was probably the most enjoyable tour we've done. The whole band are such nice people that it was, it was a wonderful experience. And Butch approached me, really wasn't until, you know, a month ago and said, I've been meaning to ask you. This was after I went to see them play at the Palladium here and needing to ask you, we do this charity event every year. Would you come do it with us? Because we were talking about actually playing Everybody Wants to Rule the World. Then suddenly I thought, well, maybe you should be there and singing it. I said, yeah, whatever I can do, absolutely. And then he told me about the charity, about Joey's song, and it sounded like a good cause. And I'm not in the studio until the end of the month, so I have the time and I'm very happy to do it and be a part of it. And this sounds like a fun event. I mean, from all the people I've talked to, it sounds like they have a good time.
[21:07]
Tony Mantour
Yeah, that seems to be what everyone is saying. It's just a great time. An acoustic night on Friday where the audience Gets questions and answers. Then Saturday night is a full blown band situation where everybody gets to rock out.
[21:21]
Curt Smith
Yeah. And I've decided not to play bass, just sing. So it makes it easier for me, you know, I mean, to be honest, there could only be one. So I would be playing bass and it would seem pointless to take a bass all that way when you have these incredibly capable musicians that could stand in for you. And I could just concentrate on singing. And I'll bring a special guest along with me.
[21:39]
Tony Mantour
Yeah, that'll be great.
[21:41]
Curt Smith
I think I can give that away. My. My eldest child will be accompanying me.
[21:44]
Tony Mantour
Oh, that's perfect. It's always great to have that kind of connection on stage with you.
[21:50]
Curt Smith
Yeah. So, you know, Mad World and things like that, we can, you know, will be those versions and acoustically she'll play her own stuff as well. She's an artist as well. And she'll join me the next night probably as well and be a part of the all girl band and do all that. I think she'll have.
[22:05]
Tony Mantour
Yeah, I think that's going to be great. And it's going to be a lot of fun. Not just for her, but for both of you. Now this is a short segment I like to call between the Notes. No right or wrong answers, no gimmicks. Just a few thoughtful questions about music influence and the stories in between. Okay, the first one is what is the first song that you hated but later on grew to love it?
[22:27]
Curt Smith
First song I hated. And what was the next bit?
[22:30]
Tony Mantour
Then later on you grew to love it.
[22:32]
Curt Smith
Oh, and couldn't love. Oh, there's a Million probably. You know, I mean, it's all those songs when you heard. When you were younger and you're like. And then, you know, you can't do without them later. It's like, put it this way, I was like, never a big still. I'm not Wham. Fan or anything like that. And then, you know, of course, every Christmas you want to hear Last Christmas.
[22:50]
Tony Mantour
Yeah.
[22:51]
Curt Smith
You know, kind of things. It's like it becomes sort of part of your life when the first time you heard it you thought, oh, that's cheesy.
[22:57]
Tony Mantour
Yeah, I get that now. Second question. If you could steal one skill from any musician, which skill would that be?
[23:06]
Curt Smith
Improvisation.
[23:07]
Tony Mantour
Okay.
[23:08]
Curt Smith
I'm really not good at that. I really have to think things through, you know.
[23:12]
Tony Mantour
I'm totally with you there. I went to Berklee College of Music and just for improv.
[23:18]
Curt Smith
Right.
[23:19]
Tony Mantour
That was my weakness too. Next one, which Tears for Fears lyric do you wish Secretly. That you had written differently.
[23:28]
Curt Smith
Wow. Yeah.
[23:31]
Tony Mantour
I don't.
[23:31]
Curt Smith
I don't know if there is one, you know, because we spend so long.
[23:34]
Tony Mantour
Okay.
[23:35]
Curt Smith
Doing them. But the one that kind of does get me a bit actually there. I. I've now picked one, of course, because I have to think. But watch me bleed. I. I think that's a little on the intense side. And that was off the Hurting. It's just me. It's. It was a bit too obvious and near the knuckles, though.
[23:51]
Tony Mantour
Okay, that totally makes sense. Now, is there a song that you wish you never performed live? And why.
[24:01]
Curt Smith
That'S a good one I want to think of. Because we've performed a lot of songs live. I don't know. They all had their part, you know, I mean, they're ones that have fallen by the wayside since then. Oh, yeah. Okay, I've got it. Yes. There was a song between albums, between the Hurting and Songs of the Big Chair. There's a song called the Way youy Are that we released just as a standalone single that we ended up despising. And we did play it live, and it was horrible.
[24:32]
Tony Mantour
Oh, that's funny. That's good. If you woke up tomorrow, you had to make a change in the music and style that you play. What would you turn to for style?
[24:42]
Curt Smith
Oh, interesting. It would be a lot. And this is really. Because it would be a complete contradiction, I guess. It would be a lot emptier. You know, I mean, you're going back to sort of folk, acoustic. Not folk as such, but acoustic. Something where the song stands alone and you don't really have to get into the big production thing. Even though I obviously, given our body of work, thoroughly enjoy that. It would be nice to do something that was simple.
[25:08]
Tony Mantour
Yeah, simple music is great. It speaks without trying too hard. It leaves space for feeling, honesty and connecting with the music. Now the final question. Which fan interpretation of your music has made you laugh? And then on the other side of that, which interpretation has made you cringe?
[25:27]
Curt Smith
Oh, fan interpretation of music. And wow. I'm trying to think of anyone's that have. Trying to think of any interpretations of our music, because they're all. They're generally good. I mean, I guess, you know, the Disturbed version of Shout was a little horrifying to start with, but I've kind of. Of come to appreciate it, you know, it turning into a kind of metal song. I was a little disappointed, I have to say, in Patti Smith's version of Everybody Wants To Rule the World. And. And I say that as a Huge Patti Smith fan because she did it the way we do it, and I wanted it to be her, you know?
[26:03]
Tony Mantour
Yeah, absolutely.
[26:04]
Curt Smith
So that kind of disappointed me a bit.
[26:06]
Tony Mantour
Now, how do people find you? How do they follow you? Get to know where you're going to be, listen to your music? How do they keep up with you so they can know what you're up to?
[26:15]
Curt Smith
I personally, my partner is not a big fan of the social media. We do have tears for fears on Instagram and Facebook. And Kurt Smith, just under Curt Smith. I'm on Facebook and Instagram and occasionally on Twitter. But I kind of gave that up for quite a while after the last election because I couldn't take it anymore.
[26:34]
Tony Mantour
You have a website as well, the tearsforfears.com?
[26:37]
Curt Smith
Yeah.
[26:38]
Tony Mantour
Okay, good. That gives them a place to start looking and following what you're doing now, what is important for the listener to understand about what you're doing, your journey on, how you got there and what the future holds for you.
[26:53]
Curt Smith
Well, I can't tell them what they can look forward to because I have no idea what we're going to come up with. Sure. Which is the joy of it.
[26:59]
Tony Mantour
It is.
[27:00]
Curt Smith
You know, I would say, and I say this to my daughter who's in music, and I say this to both my daughters. My younger daughter is in art artist. She's a graphic artist, illustrator. And it's. It's really, you know, they get very kind of uptight about the fact that it's really hard. My answer there is, is this is your passion. You have to pursue it. Because if you can end up making a living doing something you're passionate about, nothing in the world beats that. So take it as far as you can take it before you decide to make any rash decisions.
[27:31]
Tony Mantour
Yes, absolutely. That's so true. On a side note, you mentioned your daughter has performed with you. What's it like having her on stage with you? You must be incredibly proud. And I'm sure it must be a great feeling seeing all that she's accomplished.
[27:46]
Curt Smith
It's interesting. I don't get pride because I don't take credit for it. I think it's just a given she has this talent. In fact, she's probably technically. Not probably technically, she's a much better singer than me and she's a better guitarist, but I'm a bass player. It so she can play actual acoustic guitar much better than I can. The joy I get is the amusement it gives me. Because when I see videos of us back and even that one of us doing Mad One on YouTube. I'm like, oh my God, it's mini me. As we look alike, we kind of act alike. We both sing, you know, a lot of the time with our eyes closed and it's just kind of like looking in this mirror. It's, it's fascinating.
[28:23]
Tony Mantour
Yeah. And the reason why I bring this up, I produce Glen Campbell's daughter Debbie and the joy she got from traveling with her father for 25 years was just so good. So I thought it would be a great take to hear from your side as a father traveling and performing with his daughter.
[28:40]
Curt Smith
Yeah, I find it incredibly easy, you know, I mean, it's one of those things where parent and child, they just. I mean if you're close and we are very. I'm very close with both my kids just know each other. You know, there's a sort of unspoken thing that you go through when you play together that you just kind of know. I mean, I think Roland and I have come to, to do that over the years. It's kind of different for us, but same kind of thing to the extent that we know each other so well that we know what the other person's thinking.
[29:08]
Tony Mantour
Absolutely. Well, this has been fantastic. Great conversation, great information. I really appreciate you taking the time to join us today.
[29:17]
Curt Smith
Oh, it's been my pleasure.
[29:18]
Tony Mantour
The pleasure's all mine. Thanks again. Thanks for joining us today. We hope you enjoyed the show. This has been a Tony Mantour production. For more information contact media.com.
[29:48]
Vivgard Patient
I like things my way. My coffee, my schedule and my treatment.
[29:53]
So I talked to my doctor about self injecting with the Vivgard Hytrulo pre filled syringe which contains fgartigamide alpha and hyaluronidase qvfc. It's injected under your skin subcutaneously.
[30:04]
It means I can inject in my space on my time. It's my treatment my way. Visit vivgardmyway.com that's V Y V G-A-T.
[30:14]
Myway.Com and talk to your doctor about Vivgard Hytrulo brought to you by Argenics.
[30:19]
If you like the show, please take.
[30:21]
Curt Smith
A moment to rate, review and subscribe. It really does help the show to grow.
[30:27]
Vivgard Patient
Thank you for listening.

Summary7 min read

Podcast Summary: Tony Mantor’s "Almost Live… Nashville"

Episode: Curt Smith – Still Making Music with Tears for Fears

Host: Tony Mantor
Guest: Curt Smith (Tears for Fears)
Release Date: January 9, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth conversation between veteran Nashville producer and host Tony Mantor and Curt Smith, co-founder and longtime member of Tears for Fears. The discussion explores the origins and creative evolution of Tears for Fears, the unexpected impacts of fame, the power of music to heal, and life lessons from decades in the music business. Curt also reveals candid thoughts on songwriting, fan interpretations, and future plans, while reflecting on collaborating with family and charity work. The episode is filled with honest insights, behind-the-scenes anecdotes, and advice for aspiring artists.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Origins of Tears for Fears and Musical Journey

[05:00-07:09]

The band name came from Arthur Janov’s Primal Theory (author of Prisoners of Pain):

“Tears as a replacement for fears. Tears for Fears. That’s how it came about.” – Curt Smith [05:46]
Curt and Roland Orzabal started in the band Graduate, but split due to a deeper interest in music production and theory rather than live performance and partying:

"We were different, basically… so we decided to leave that band and stay as a duo." – Curt Smith [06:43]
Despite being marketed with a full band image (especially during live tours), Tears for Fears was always a duo at its creative core.

Early Success, Industry Dynamics, and the Burden of Fame

[07:09-11:56]

Early success didn’t mean an easy ride; label and management involved lots of “twists and turns,” clashes of ideas with producers and A&R men:

"It definitely took twists and turns. …we are 100% convinced that we know better, because what 19 and 20 year olds do." – Curt Smith [08:41]
Unexpected and rapid popularity, especially after their first album hit number one in the UK, led to a surreal disconnect — especially as their dark, introspective material met screaming pop-idol adulation:

“The juxtaposition was very strange… I didn’t understand why anyone would scream and want to marry you or… idolize you when they’d never met you.” – Curt Smith [11:24]
Both Curt and Roland, coming from working-class, broken families, initially just wanted “to be heard.”

Audience Perception and the Generational Impact of Music

[11:57-14:21]

The band immediately attracted a young, female, pop-centric audience in the UK, but their college-aged American fans related more to the content of the music, particularly The Hurting:

“The reaction in the two countries was different. The US audience for The Hurting was a more thinking audience.” – Curt Smith [12:57]
Songs like "Mad World" have remained deeply resonant, shifting meaning over time and throughout cover versions and world events (notably, Curt’s own viral lockdown duet with his daughter during COVID-19).

Interpretation and Misinterpretation of Songs

[14:21-15:31]

Listeners sometimes completely misinterpret their intentions. For example, “Everybody Wants to Rule the World” was read as a pro-capitalism anthem in some conservative circles, when it was actually a critique of power and political leadership in the Reagan-Thatcher era:

“That was so not what the song was about. The song was about the insane desire for power.” – Curt Smith [14:59]

Studio Stories: Production, Magic, and Creative Process

[15:32-18:01]

The recording process was usually meticulous, full of disputes and lengthy debates—except “Everybody Wants to Rule the World,” which came together in two weeks as a "light-hearted giveaway track":

"Who knew it would become our biggest song out of anything we wrote?" – Curt Smith [15:59]
Looking back, Curt admits he’d change most things if he could due to their extreme fussiness:

“You have to get to a point where you’re like, okay, this is good enough, because otherwise you could keep going forever.” – Curt Smith [18:15]

The Future of Tears for Fears

[19:03-19:44]

No long-term plans: The band heads into the studio in late January 2026 to record new material; touring will be determined after the new music takes shape:

“We have a bunch of songs, but some of them may stick, some of them may not. … If it all works out, we’ll take it out live.” – Curt Smith [19:19]

Charity Work and Family Collaboration

[20:01-22:05]

Curt is participating in the Joey's Song charity event, thanks to the encouragement of friend and Garbage drummer Butch Vig. He’ll perform with his eldest daughter, who is also a talented musician:

“She’ll play her own stuff as well. She’s an artist as well… and be a part of the all girl band.” – Curt Smith [21:50]

Quick-Fire "Between the Notes" Segment

[22:05-26:06]

First song you hated but grew to love?

“Never a big Wham! fan or anything like that. And then, of course, every Christmas you want to hear 'Last Christmas.'” – Curt Smith [22:31]
If you could steal any skill from a musician?

“Improvisation. I’m really not good at that.” – Curt Smith [23:05]
Tears for Fears lyric you wish you’d written differently?

"'Watch Me Bleed'... off The Hurting… a bit too obvious and near the knuckles, though." – Curt Smith [23:49]
Wish you never performed live?

"'The Way You Are'—that we released just as a standalone single... we ended up despising. We did play it live, and it was horrible." – Curt Smith [24:17]
If you had to change your music style?

"Something where the song stands alone… simple, acoustic." – Curt Smith [24:41]
Most surprising fan interpretation (laughed or cringed)?

“The Disturbed version of 'Shout' was a little horrifying to start with… I was a little disappointed, I have to say, in Patti Smith’s version of 'Everybody Wants To Rule the World.' I wanted it to be her.” – Curt Smith [25:26]

Father-Daughter Collaboration Reflections

[27:30-29:39]

Curt is proud (if not exactly "prideful") performing with his daughter and sees a musical and physical reflection of himself:

"When I see videos… I’m like, oh my God, it’s mini me… we look alike, we kind of act alike, we both sing… it’s fascinating." – Curt Smith [28:07]

Advice to Aspiring Artists

[26:59-27:30]

On finding success:

“If you can end up making a living doing something you’re passionate about, nothing in the world beats that. So take it as far as you can take it before you decide to make any rash decisions.” – Curt Smith [27:25]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On overnight success:

"Our first shows… we were playing to audiences of screaming girls. …The juxtaposition was very strange…" – Curt Smith [11:24]
On song misinterpretation by political ideologies:

"The song was about the insane desire for power… that was so not what the song was about…" – Curt Smith [14:59]
On their biggest hit:

"'Everybody Wants to Rule the World'... the easiest to do and the easiest to record." – Curt Smith [15:59]
On artistic dissatisfaction:

"We’ve never got to the point where we went, 'that's brilliant.' Because we don’t think we’re that good, which is why we continue to do it…" – Curt Smith [18:34]
On advice to creative people:

“You have to pursue [your passion]… If you can end up making a living doing something you’re passionate about, nothing in the world beats that.” – Curt Smith [27:25]

Timestamps for Key Segments

Curt Smith explains the band name: [05:00–05:49]
Touring as a duo and band perception: [07:09–07:59]
Record deal and industry friction: [08:29–09:39]
On coping with sudden fame: [10:18–11:56]
UK vs. US audience response: [12:11–12:57]
Songs as therapy and fan feedback: [13:17–13:39]
Story behind "Everybody Wants to Rule the World": [15:51–16:42]
Would you change anything?: [18:01–18:34]
Upcoming studio and touring plans: [19:08–19:44]
Involvement in Joey’s Song charity: [20:08–21:50]
"Between the Notes" quickfire answers: [22:05–26:06]
Father-daughter musical reflections: [27:30–29:39]
Curt’s advice to aspiring artists: [26:59–27:30]

Where to Follow and Listen

Web/social:
- tearsforfears.com
- Instagram/Facebook: @tearsforfears, @curtsmith
- Occasional updates on Twitter by Curt, but less frequent post-election.

Final Thoughts

This episode is a candid masterclass in the inner workings of long-term artistic success and the paradoxes of popular music stardom. Curt Smith’s journey with Tears for Fears encapsulates resilience, creative curiosity, and balance between past achievements and future ambitions. Aspiring musicians and fans alike will find wisdom, humor, and inspiration throughout the conversation.

Loading summary

Transcript125 lines

[00:00]
Vivgard Patient
I like things my way. My coffee, my schedule and my treatment.
[00:05]
So I talked to my doctor about self injecting with the Vivgard Hytrulo pre filled syringe which contains fgartigamide alpha and hyaluronidase qvfc. It's injected under your skin subcutaneously.
[00:16]
It means I can inject in my space on my time. It's my treatment, my way. Visit vivgardmyway.com that's V-Y-V-G-A-R-T myway.com and talk.
[00:27]
To your doctor about Vivgart Hytrulo. Brought to you by Argenxx Reggie, I.
[00:32]
Carvana Customer
Just sold my car online.
[00:34]
Grandchild
Let's go, Grandpa. Wait, you did?
[00:36]
Curt Smith
Yep.
[00:36]
Carvana Customer
On Carvana. Just put in the license plate, answered a few questions, got an offer in minutes. Easier than setting up that new digital picture frame.
[00:44]
Grandchild
You don't say.
[00:45]
Carvana Customer
Yeah, they're even picking it up tomorrow. Talk about fast.
[00:48]
Grainger Narrator
Wow.
[00:49]
Grandchild
Way to go. So about that picture frame.
[00:51]
Carvana Customer
Ah, forget about it. Until Carvana makes one, I'm not interested.
[00:55]
Curt Smith
Car selling made easy on Carvana.
[00:59]
Grainger Narrator
Pick up fees may apply. This is the story of the one as an H Vac technician, he and his digital multimeter are in high demand. So when a noisy office H Vac turns out to be a failing blower motor, he doesn't break a sweat. With Grainger's easy to use website and product information, he selects the product he needs to keep everything humming right along. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickranger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.
[01:45]
Tony Mantour
My career in the entertainment industry has enabled me to work with a diverse range of talent. Through my years of experience, I've recognized two essential aspects. Industry professionals, whether famous stars or behind the scenes staff, have fascinating stories to tell. Secondly, audiences are eager to listen to these stories which offer a glimpse into their lives and the evolution of their life stories. This podcast aims to share these narratives, providing information on how they evolve into their chosen career. We will delve into their journey to stardom, discuss their struggles and successes, and hear from people who help them achieve their goals. Get ready for intriguing behind the scenes stories and insights into the fascinating world of entertainment. Hi, I'm Tony Mantour. Welcome to Almost Live Nashville. Joining us today is Kurt Smith of Tears for Fears. His music has defined generations. From chart topping hits that everyone knows to deeper personal songs that continue to resonate decades later, his music has inspired generations and left an unforgettable mark on the world. Over the years he's not only created some of the most memorable songs of our time, he's also inspired countless artists and continues to push the boundaries of what music can be. Today, we'll explore his creative process, we'll talk about his creative journey and get a glimpse of what it's like to keep evolving as an artist while connecting with fans all over the world. So before we dive into our episode, we'll be back with an uninterrupted show right after a word from our sponsors.
[03:27]
Vivgard Patient
I like things my way. My coffee, my schedule and my treatment.
[03:32]
So I talked to my doctor about self injecting with the Vivgard Hyrulo pre filled syringe which contains fgartegamide alpha and hyaluronidase qvfc. It's injected under your skin subcutaneously.
[03:43]
It means I can inject in my space on my time. It's my treatment, my way. Visit vivgardmyway.com that's V-Y-V-G-A-R-T myway.com and talk.
[03:54]
To your doctor about Vivgart Hyrulo. Brought to you by Argenics Reggie, I.
[03:59]
Carvana Customer
Just sold my car online.
[04:00]
Grandchild
Let's go, Grandpa. Wait, you did?
[04:03]
Tony Mantour
Yep.
[04:03]
Carvana Customer
On Carvana. Just put in the license plate, answered a few questions, got an offer in minutes. Easier than setting up that new digital picture frame.
[04:11]
Grandchild
You don't say.
[04:12]
Carvana Customer
Yeah, they're even picking it up tomorrow. Talk about fast.
[04:15]
Curt Smith
Wow.
[04:16]
Grandchild
Way to go. So about that picture frame.
[04:18]
Carvana Customer
Ah, forget about it. Until Carvana makes one, I'm not interested.
[04:22]
Curt Smith
Car selling made easy on Carvana Pick up.
[04:27]
Grainger Narrator
These may apply if you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant. You know, having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why hands down, you count on Grainger for auto reordering. With on time restocks, your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift and you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.
[04:57]
Tony Mantour
Thanks for joining us today.
[04:59]
Curt Smith
Oh, it's my pleasure.
[05:00]
Tony Mantour
I'm always interested in how band names are formed. So how did you come up with Tears for Fears?
[05:06]
Curt Smith
It's a longish story, but I can give you the Cliff Note version. It was from a book by Arthur Janoff called the Prisoners of Pain. We were heavily into Primal theory at the time and big fans of Arthur Janoff. It was a specifically I was reading a book about children's nightmares. So. Sounds quite heavy. The premise was that if children were allowed to be natural, because the nightmares they have normally are invented monsters because they can't really admit to what they're really scared of, which tends to be peers, parents, whatever it may be. But if they allowed to be more natural, if they were allowed to cry, as opposed to told to shut up when they're crying, be quiet or calm down, you know, then they wouldn't have these nightmares. So tears as a replacement for fears. Tears for fears. That's how it came about.
[05:50]
Tony Mantour
I like it. It's very interesting and a great story on how you came up with the name. Now, once you started it, you got it. Going forward, you had success that not many get, as, you know, many people work their way up the ladder, so to speak, and it can take years and years and years. Your first album that you started out with in England, it went to number one. That must have been really satisfying for you.
[06:15]
Curt Smith
Yeah, it was. I mean, we'd worked for a bunch of years since then. I mean, we turned. We signed our first record when we were 18 with a band called Graduate. We had a number one single in Spain and no one else anywhere had heard of us. And we toured all through Europe. And we did this sort of weeks of touring in two vans with us lugging our own gear and playing tiny clubs and doing all this kind of stuff. And Roland and I, at the end of it, we kind of sat down and we decided that this life was not for us. I mean, it became obvious kind of early on where that the other members of the band were kind of into the live playing, they were into the partying, they were into picking up girls. I mean, the reason you get into a band in the first place. And we were really interested in production and all those kind of things, and Arthur Janov and, you know, we were different, basically. And so we decided to, you know, leave that band and stay as a duo. And we then proceeded to sort of start demoing stuff on our own.
[07:10]
Tony Mantour
That's interesting because a lot of people never actually looked at you as a complete duo. They looked to you as a full band.
[07:17]
Curt Smith
Yeah.
[07:17]
Tony Mantour
Did you kind of roll with that perception, or did you eventually get it out there so people could understand that you were indeed a duo?
[07:25]
Curt Smith
Yeah, some people thought we were kind of an entire band because, you know, there were pictures of the band and suddenly in the tour merchandise. But actually when we did press, it was only ever the two of us and the two of us were the only people signed to A record deal. So we were a duo from the beginning. I think there was during songs from the Big Chair, especially because we kind of took off and we were playing live a lot. The programs for the, for the tour had pictures of the whole band. Cause you want to see who the band are. So I think that's where the misconception came from. But we've always just been a duo. I mean, getting the two of us to agree is hard enough without including other people.
[08:00]
Tony Mantour
I get that, Believe me, I totally get that. It's always interesting dealing with one single artist, but when you have two or more people, it can get much tougher. For sure, when you first start working on a contract, there's a lot of give and take going on. How did that work out for you in the beginning? Were you both on board with label and management and what they were thinking or were there a lot of twists and turns between everybody until you finally all came together and got on the same page?
[08:30]
Curt Smith
Well, it definitely took twists and turns. I mean, we were very young, you know, we were 19 with maybe 20 when we signed Deal as Tears for Fears that may not have been 20 yet. And we had an incredibly opinionated A and R man who I'm still friends with and actually when I was back in Bath, saw him a few weeks ago. But we've become friendlier because we don't work together anymore. Yeah, but it was, it was definitely a fight because you know, when you're young and opinionated and kind of know what you want to be surrounded by record company people who are older, more experienced and producers as well. I mean, I would include Chris Hughes in there who think, and in some cases I'll write that they better. And we're young, so we are 100% convinced that we know better because what 19 and 20 year olds do.
[09:14]
Tony Mantour
Exactly.
[09:15]
Curt Smith
So it did lead to some friction without question, you know, but we're eternally grateful to Dave because, you know, we did. We were signed to a publishing deal when we were in graduate. So that publishing deal continued on for a bit. And they're the people that shopped us to record companies. And we went and met with all these record companies. We did play, went in and played the demos. All we had at that point were, I think Pal Shelter and Suffer the Children were the two songs.
[09:40]
Tony Mantour
I think I've been here in Nashville for about 30 something years now working with some of the more well known people. I find that they have many things in common in their travels and journeys to get where they are. One of the very similar things that they have in common is they are not prepared for the success they get overnight, so to speak, with you. Even though you traveled some, when the label signed you, within a very short period of time, you had a number one hit record out there. Then your next record not only does big in the uk, but in the US as well. How did you handle that impact that came to you from that success?
[10:19]
Curt Smith
I mean, in retrospect, it was a bit of a blur. I don't think we handled it that well. I think when we got older we handled it better, which is why it took us so long between records, you know, because we just needed time alone. I mean, Roland and myself, we're not people that like to be in the spotlight, particularly, even though we chose this as a profession, I find it very uncomfortable because people have a preconceived idea about who you're going to be and what you're going to be like. So I find that all kind of weird. I mean, you don't think of this when you're doing it, you think. Because when you first start, or I'm speaking personally, when I first started, it was just a desire to be heard, you know, like, this is my voice, I want people to hear me. And I think that's the same for Roland because we both came from, you know, broken families and middle of three sons and no one really listened to us that much. You know, there were two. I mean, we both had working mothers, so we kind of looked after ourselves. So the desire was to be heard. And then all of a sudden you're kind of a pop idol, especially at that age of 20. So our first shows, which is weird, giving the content of the material, which was the hurting, which was basically an album, a concept album about primal theory, pretty much, yet we were playing to audiences of screaming girls. We were, you know, we were pop idols at that point. We had Smash Hits and all those kind of English magazines putting us on covers because we were good looking young men or boys, I would consider us at that point in time. So the juxtaposition was very strange, especially for me, because I didn't understand why anyone would scream and want to marry you or just you were their idol when they'd never met you. So I found all of that very hard to take. And it became harder when we became big in America. Very hard.
[11:57]
Tony Mantour
Sure, that's very understandable. Now, you brought up an interesting topic and that's perception. What did you think your perception was to what you were putting out versus what People were perceiving you to be a mixture.
[12:12]
Curt Smith
You know, what I didn't understand was. Was primarily a female audience when we first started, because in England you go on Top of the Pops, which is the biggest TV show, and then you become the latest, you know, Cube guy they're looking at, and they're not really listening to the content of the music yet. Having said that, you know, there were. There's certainly a large portion of our audience really did understand what we were trying to say. And they're the ones that have stuck with us all through the years and continue to reinvent. You know, for instance, we play shows now and there'll be 19, 20 year old kids at our shows. And they all relate to the Hurting. That's the album they relate to. And I'm talking about America. And the Hurting wasn't particularly big in America, but it makes sense because the album was written when we were that age.
[12:56]
Tony Mantour
Sure.
[12:57]
Curt Smith
So the amount of times we've had people come up and said, you've got me through my college years, you know, when that album came out. So actually, I think, interestingly, because it was a big college album in America and it was a big op hit in England, the reaction in the two different countries was different. The US audience for the Hurting was a more thinking audience, I think, than the British audience was.
[13:18]
Tony Mantour
I find it interesting when people come up to you or email you and say, you helped me get through this tough situation or you helped me get through college or whatever it might be. The great thing about music is it can be very therapeutic. So what song or songs were people telling you help them get through their trying times?
[13:39]
Curt Smith
Well, certainly most. Most songs on the Hurting specifically, I mean, I think that it became more general by songs from the big chair. So songs like Mad World, which people still today completely relate to, and it may take on different meanings, you know, because other people have covered it. I mean, the Gary Jaws and Michael Andrews version really put it in a completely different light. And then, you know, I'd move on to when Covid happened and Lockdown happened and I did that version with my daughter. That version suddenly went viral out of nowhere because it was. There was something about everyone being locked at home and a father and daughter singing Mad Wild together. That was very moving and touching. So it took on a different meaning then.
[14:22]
Tony Mantour
Yeah, that's absolutely fantastic. With every song a songwriter will have, this song will put their heart and soul into it. Did you put your heart and soul into any songs? And you put it out there knowing what you meant and then the listener, for whatever reason, did not get the message that you were trying to put across.
[14:40]
Curt Smith
Yeah, I mean, they do. And we have had people that just really get the wrong end of the stick completely. But it doesn't really matter that much to us. What matters to us is we've said our piece. I mean, I find the weirdest, weirdest one is, you know, prior to the last election in America, they may have people online and there was an article in National Review, I think whatever the very conservative is that National Review, the very conservative paper here magazine that thought it was like an anthem for, you know, not for the, for the right wing, but, but for capitalism, that everyone should pull up their bootstraps and help themselves. And that was so not what the song was about. The song was about the insane desire for power. And it was a song against Reagan and Margaret Thatcher at the time, you know, because they were choosing to go to war really, to keep their popularity going.
[15:33]
Tony Mantour
Yeah. Now, earlier you said that you was into the production side of it and the studio. When you went in the studio, sometimes you go into it thinking there's going to be a certain way, and then all of a sudden the magic happens and you get a production that you never expected would happen. Did that happen to you at all?
[15:51]
Curt Smith
Well, yeah. I mean, for us, the magic generally doesn't just happen, it's got to be said. Although, you know, one exception would be Everybody Wants to Rule the World, which literally took like two weeks because we thought it was such a light hearted kind of giveaway track. Who knew it would become our biggest song out of anything we wrote? And that was the easiest to do and the easiest to record. But most of the time it was never ending. Arguments, I mean, arguments sort of like discussions and debates about what should be done. And these were the kind of people we worked with. Chris Hughes, our producer early on, Ian Stanley, who played keyboards with us, who was in the studio with us, and Ross Cullum, who also co produced with Chris Hughes. The Hurting. We would have debates about things before even doing anything. You know, in retrospect, when I look back on it, we wasted so much time. Why didn't we just try it and see if it worked or not? But we didn't. We'd have to have the argument to decide who was right or wrong first.
[16:43]
Tony Mantour
Yeah, I get that. I've seen that happen before now. I've been in the studio many times and all of a sudden a guitar player or another musician just does something that takes the song a completely different direction than you ever thought. Did you ever have anything like that happen where something took a completely different direction than you planned? And then when you hear in the end, you go, yeah, that works.
[17:07]
Curt Smith
Yeah. I don't really know because I think that I don't believe that we ever kind of went in. I mean, the hurting. We certainly went in with a game plan. We wanted this album that was effectively a concept album. Songs in the big chair and with. And with Seeds of Love and albums after that. I think that we kind of went in and just kind of wanted to see what would happen. I think that the biggest, you know, the biggest surprise to this day would be everybody wants to rule the world. You know, we wouldn't consider it a particularly great track. The time, you know, it wasn't really over. You know, we were known for big production, or at least we were getting into big production at that point in time. And it's not big production. It is very simple. There's, you know, there's kind of a few parts on it. They just happen to work well off each other. Different tempos and different time signatures that just came together. And because it was so easy to do, we never really thought it was that it couldn't be that great. Of course, it goes on to do what it did, you know.
[18:02]
Tony Mantour
Yeah. Sometimes things just work. Now, when you look back, is there anything that you look back and say, you know, I think I would change this, I would change that. Anything that comes to mind.
[18:15]
Curt Smith
Well, you've worked with artists. You know what the answer to that's going to be. I'd change most things, probably. You know, I mean, the thing is, you have to get to a point where you're like, okay, this is good enough, because otherwise you could keep going forever. Because we are incredibly fussy and we keep trying to attain more as far as standard of recording goes. So at some point you've got to say, yeah, that's really good. And if we get to a point where we say, that's really good, then we're okay. We've never got to the point where we went, that's brilliant. Because we don't think we're that good, which is why we continue to do it, because, you know, you continue to struggle to be better. And, you know, I listen to albums now and I'll listen to a Bon Iver record and go, that's better than anything I've ever done, but that's what keeps me going.
[19:03]
Tony Mantour
Yeah, I totally get that. What's up for the future? What are your plans for 2026.
[19:09]
Curt Smith
We don't make long term plans, particularly because we've been doing this long enough that they tend to some, you know, life happens and something can come up and change it. All right now we get the last week in January. In three weeks we go into the studio and start recording again. And we'll see where that takes us. We have a bunch of songs, but some of them may stick, some of them may not. And we'll work together on fresh new material and then if it all works out, we'll take it out live. But that's, you know, that's for the future. Once we've kind of got the. Some of the recording process going.
[19:41]
Tony Mantour
Any touring plans locked in for this year yet?
[19:44]
Curt Smith
Nothing. Locked in is just sort of on the horizon, you know, I think we're. For us, we want to wait to see how the recording goes first and foremost, you know, because that could, that could happen quickly. That could take us a year, two years, who knows, you know, that's kind of what we're concentrating on right now.
[20:02]
Tony Mantour
Yeah, that totally makes sense. You've got a show coming up here where you're working with a chair called Joey Song.
[20:08]
Curt Smith
Right.
[20:08]
Tony Mantour
Can you tell us how that came to happen?
[20:10]
Curt Smith
My friend Butch Fig is very convincing.
[20:14]
Tony Mantour
Yeah, he's been on talking about it as well.
[20:16]
Curt Smith
Yeah, we toured with Garbage a couple of years ago. And Butch is, you know, who's a wonderful guy. In fact, the whole band. It was probably the most enjoyable tour we've done. The whole band are such nice people that it was, it was a wonderful experience. And Butch approached me, really wasn't until, you know, a month ago and said, I've been meaning to ask you. This was after I went to see them play at the Palladium here and needing to ask you, we do this charity event every year. Would you come do it with us? Because we were talking about actually playing Everybody Wants to Rule the World. Then suddenly I thought, well, maybe you should be there and singing it. I said, yeah, whatever I can do, absolutely. And then he told me about the charity, about Joey's song, and it sounded like a good cause. And I'm not in the studio until the end of the month, so I have the time and I'm very happy to do it and be a part of it. And this sounds like a fun event. I mean, from all the people I've talked to, it sounds like they have a good time.
[21:07]
Tony Mantour
Yeah, that seems to be what everyone is saying. It's just a great time. An acoustic night on Friday where the audience Gets questions and answers. Then Saturday night is a full blown band situation where everybody gets to rock out.
[21:21]
Curt Smith
Yeah. And I've decided not to play bass, just sing. So it makes it easier for me, you know, I mean, to be honest, there could only be one. So I would be playing bass and it would seem pointless to take a bass all that way when you have these incredibly capable musicians that could stand in for you. And I could just concentrate on singing. And I'll bring a special guest along with me.
[21:39]
Tony Mantour
Yeah, that'll be great.
[21:41]
Curt Smith
I think I can give that away. My. My eldest child will be accompanying me.
[21:44]
Tony Mantour
Oh, that's perfect. It's always great to have that kind of connection on stage with you.
[21:50]
Curt Smith
Yeah. So, you know, Mad World and things like that, we can, you know, will be those versions and acoustically she'll play her own stuff as well. She's an artist as well. And she'll join me the next night probably as well and be a part of the all girl band and do all that. I think she'll have.
[22:05]
Tony Mantour
Yeah, I think that's going to be great. And it's going to be a lot of fun. Not just for her, but for both of you. Now this is a short segment I like to call between the Notes. No right or wrong answers, no gimmicks. Just a few thoughtful questions about music influence and the stories in between. Okay, the first one is what is the first song that you hated but later on grew to love it?
[22:27]
Curt Smith
First song I hated. And what was the next bit?
[22:30]
Tony Mantour
Then later on you grew to love it.
[22:32]
Curt Smith
Oh, and couldn't love. Oh, there's a Million probably. You know, I mean, it's all those songs when you heard. When you were younger and you're like. And then, you know, you can't do without them later. It's like, put it this way, I was like, never a big still. I'm not Wham. Fan or anything like that. And then, you know, of course, every Christmas you want to hear Last Christmas.
[22:50]
Tony Mantour
Yeah.
[22:51]
Curt Smith
You know, kind of things. It's like it becomes sort of part of your life when the first time you heard it you thought, oh, that's cheesy.
[22:57]
Tony Mantour
Yeah, I get that now. Second question. If you could steal one skill from any musician, which skill would that be?
[23:06]
Curt Smith
Improvisation.
[23:07]
Tony Mantour
Okay.
[23:08]
Curt Smith
I'm really not good at that. I really have to think things through, you know.
[23:12]
Tony Mantour
I'm totally with you there. I went to Berklee College of Music and just for improv.
[23:18]
Curt Smith
Right.
[23:19]
Tony Mantour
That was my weakness too. Next one, which Tears for Fears lyric do you wish Secretly. That you had written differently.
[23:28]
Curt Smith
Wow. Yeah.
[23:31]
Tony Mantour
I don't.
[23:31]
Curt Smith
I don't know if there is one, you know, because we spend so long.
[23:34]
Tony Mantour
Okay.
[23:35]
Curt Smith
Doing them. But the one that kind of does get me a bit actually there. I. I've now picked one, of course, because I have to think. But watch me bleed. I. I think that's a little on the intense side. And that was off the Hurting. It's just me. It's. It was a bit too obvious and near the knuckles, though.
[23:51]
Tony Mantour
Okay, that totally makes sense. Now, is there a song that you wish you never performed live? And why.
[24:01]
Curt Smith
That'S a good one I want to think of. Because we've performed a lot of songs live. I don't know. They all had their part, you know, I mean, they're ones that have fallen by the wayside since then. Oh, yeah. Okay, I've got it. Yes. There was a song between albums, between the Hurting and Songs of the Big Chair. There's a song called the Way youy Are that we released just as a standalone single that we ended up despising. And we did play it live, and it was horrible.
[24:32]
Tony Mantour
Oh, that's funny. That's good. If you woke up tomorrow, you had to make a change in the music and style that you play. What would you turn to for style?
[24:42]
Curt Smith
Oh, interesting. It would be a lot. And this is really. Because it would be a complete contradiction, I guess. It would be a lot emptier. You know, I mean, you're going back to sort of folk, acoustic. Not folk as such, but acoustic. Something where the song stands alone and you don't really have to get into the big production thing. Even though I obviously, given our body of work, thoroughly enjoy that. It would be nice to do something that was simple.
[25:08]
Tony Mantour
Yeah, simple music is great. It speaks without trying too hard. It leaves space for feeling, honesty and connecting with the music. Now the final question. Which fan interpretation of your music has made you laugh? And then on the other side of that, which interpretation has made you cringe?
[25:27]
Curt Smith
Oh, fan interpretation of music. And wow. I'm trying to think of anyone's that have. Trying to think of any interpretations of our music, because they're all. They're generally good. I mean, I guess, you know, the Disturbed version of Shout was a little horrifying to start with, but I've kind of. Of come to appreciate it, you know, it turning into a kind of metal song. I was a little disappointed, I have to say, in Patti Smith's version of Everybody Wants To Rule the World. And. And I say that as a Huge Patti Smith fan because she did it the way we do it, and I wanted it to be her, you know?
[26:03]
Tony Mantour
Yeah, absolutely.
[26:04]
Curt Smith
So that kind of disappointed me a bit.
[26:06]
Tony Mantour
Now, how do people find you? How do they follow you? Get to know where you're going to be, listen to your music? How do they keep up with you so they can know what you're up to?
[26:15]
Curt Smith
I personally, my partner is not a big fan of the social media. We do have tears for fears on Instagram and Facebook. And Kurt Smith, just under Curt Smith. I'm on Facebook and Instagram and occasionally on Twitter. But I kind of gave that up for quite a while after the last election because I couldn't take it anymore.
[26:34]
Tony Mantour
You have a website as well, the tearsforfears.com?
[26:37]
Curt Smith
Yeah.
[26:38]
Tony Mantour
Okay, good. That gives them a place to start looking and following what you're doing now, what is important for the listener to understand about what you're doing, your journey on, how you got there and what the future holds for you.
[26:53]
Curt Smith
Well, I can't tell them what they can look forward to because I have no idea what we're going to come up with. Sure. Which is the joy of it.
[26:59]
Tony Mantour
It is.
[27:00]
Curt Smith
You know, I would say, and I say this to my daughter who's in music, and I say this to both my daughters. My younger daughter is in art artist. She's a graphic artist, illustrator. And it's. It's really, you know, they get very kind of uptight about the fact that it's really hard. My answer there is, is this is your passion. You have to pursue it. Because if you can end up making a living doing something you're passionate about, nothing in the world beats that. So take it as far as you can take it before you decide to make any rash decisions.
[27:31]
Tony Mantour
Yes, absolutely. That's so true. On a side note, you mentioned your daughter has performed with you. What's it like having her on stage with you? You must be incredibly proud. And I'm sure it must be a great feeling seeing all that she's accomplished.
[27:46]
Curt Smith
It's interesting. I don't get pride because I don't take credit for it. I think it's just a given she has this talent. In fact, she's probably technically. Not probably technically, she's a much better singer than me and she's a better guitarist, but I'm a bass player. It so she can play actual acoustic guitar much better than I can. The joy I get is the amusement it gives me. Because when I see videos of us back and even that one of us doing Mad One on YouTube. I'm like, oh my God, it's mini me. As we look alike, we kind of act alike. We both sing, you know, a lot of the time with our eyes closed and it's just kind of like looking in this mirror. It's, it's fascinating.
[28:23]
Tony Mantour
Yeah. And the reason why I bring this up, I produce Glen Campbell's daughter Debbie and the joy she got from traveling with her father for 25 years was just so good. So I thought it would be a great take to hear from your side as a father traveling and performing with his daughter.
[28:40]
Curt Smith
Yeah, I find it incredibly easy, you know, I mean, it's one of those things where parent and child, they just. I mean if you're close and we are very. I'm very close with both my kids just know each other. You know, there's a sort of unspoken thing that you go through when you play together that you just kind of know. I mean, I think Roland and I have come to, to do that over the years. It's kind of different for us, but same kind of thing to the extent that we know each other so well that we know what the other person's thinking.
[29:08]
Tony Mantour
Absolutely. Well, this has been fantastic. Great conversation, great information. I really appreciate you taking the time to join us today.
[29:17]
Curt Smith
Oh, it's been my pleasure.
[29:18]
Tony Mantour
The pleasure's all mine. Thanks again. Thanks for joining us today. We hope you enjoyed the show. This has been a Tony Mantour production. For more information contact media.com.
[29:48]
Vivgard Patient
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[29:53]
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[30:04]
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[30:14]
Myway.Com and talk to your doctor about Vivgard Hytrulo brought to you by Argenics.
[30:19]
If you like the show, please take.
[30:21]
Curt Smith
A moment to rate, review and subscribe. It really does help the show to grow.
[30:27]
Vivgard Patient
Thank you for listening.

Curt Smith: Still making Music with Tears for Fears

Curt Smith: Still making Music with Tears for Fears

Podcast Summary: Tony Mantor’s "Almost Live… Nashville"

Episode: Curt Smith – Still Making Music with Tears for Fears

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Origins of Tears for Fears and Musical Journey

Early Success, Industry Dynamics, and the Burden of Fame

Audience Perception and the Generational Impact of Music

Interpretation and Misinterpretation of Songs

Studio Stories: Production, Magic, and Creative Process

The Future of Tears for Fears

Charity Work and Family Collaboration

Quick-Fire "Between the Notes" Segment

Father-Daughter Collaboration Reflections

Advice to Aspiring Artists

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Key Segments

Where to Follow and Listen

Final Thoughts

Podcast Summary: Tony Mantor’s "Almost Live… Nashville"

Episode: Curt Smith – Still Making Music with Tears for Fears

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Origins of Tears for Fears and Musical Journey

Early Success, Industry Dynamics, and the Burden of Fame

Audience Perception and the Generational Impact of Music

Interpretation and Misinterpretation of Songs

Studio Stories: Production, Magic, and Creative Process

The Future of Tears for Fears

Charity Work and Family Collaboration

Quick-Fire "Between the Notes" Segment

Father-Daughter Collaboration Reflections

Advice to Aspiring Artists

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Key Segments

Where to Follow and Listen

Final Thoughts