A (4:08)

What were some of the acts that you were working with at that time

B (4:11)

at the EDM festival or back in the day?

A (4:14)

Well, let's just give the audience a little bit of both that you've worked with.

B (4:18)

Absolutely. So over time, I did everything from Snoop Dogg, the Kardashians, Kid Cudi, Tiesto. Number one DJ in the world at the time, Chris Brown, Pink. Go on and keep going. Long list, you name it, that's a great list.

A (4:31)

Now what happened? You said that you had this contract. What led up to Live Nation creating this issue for you that you couldn't get past?

B (4:41)

Yeah, absolutely. So I didn't even know who Live Nation was for 15 years in the business, in the house music that I was involved in. Live Nation wasn't involved in it. So I got a call from the owner of the State Fair Meadowlands, right at this time. We had our talent in place, we had our staging in place, contract in place, everything set up. It was a turnkey operation. And I got a call from him, Al Dorso, great guy. And he told me that Live Nation just came in and met with him blocking Tiasto. That was the number one DJ in the world that I was bringing aboard, blocking all our talent from the William Morris Agency. That was their exclusive agency badmouthing us to the New Jersey Sports Authority. That's his landlord, the owner to Meadowlands, to get us kicked out and that they were going to block our tickets from Ticketmaster.

A (5:21)

Okay, what happened next?

B (5:22)

After that, he was super nervous. He was the nicest guy in the world. He was screaming and yelling at me. I don't blame him. After I found out what happened. So he asked us to go meet Live Nation because they were threatened to block the whole festival. They said to him if there was an event of 10,000 people, they had to be involved, and if they weren't involved, my festival was over. So I went into the Live Nation headquarters, met with their president, Jason Miller, and their vice president of talent, John the Esposito.

A (5:47)

How did that go for you in that meeting?

B (5:50)

They came in attacked like wild animals, said, we're going to get you kicked out. There's loopholes in your contract. We're getting you knocked out of your knocked out of the festival. William Morris Agency is our exclusive talent agency. We're blocking all the artists, dates, the DJs and artists you're booking worldwide if they perform for you. So they're not going to perform for you. We're going to go to the sports authority that we own, the Meadowlands. That's our turf. We're going to get you kicked out from them. I tried to defend us, defend my partner's reputations, like Fiesta at the time, my one partner, John Di Matteo. It was like back in the day, if you, like, wanted Mike Tyson, you'd call Don King. Do you Fiesta, you call Di Mateo. I tried to, you know, I stuck up for my partners. They then said if I kicked my two partners out, John Di Matteo and Vito Bruno, kicked them out of the contract, they would come into the contract, fund the whole thing, give me 50% of the festival. I only had a handshake deal at the time with John D. Mateo and Vito Bruno. But I've always honored my word. My dad taught me that as a kid. I told them, I'm not kicking these guys out of a contract because you tell tell me to do so. And they then said they would block tickets from Ticketmaster. I said, how are you going to block tickets from Ticketmaster? I've done tickets with Ticketmaster all the time. They said, we own them. I thought they were lying until after I left their headquarters and I googled. Live Nation, bought Ticketmaster, and they had just bought them. Then I realized I was in a lot of trouble.

A (7:05)

Did you talk it over with your partners? What did they have to say? What did they think?

B (7:09)

My partners were super Fearful of it. One of the partners had actually booked Tiesto, did business with Live Nation and he said, like they have a lot of power, obviously they're huge, the 800 pound gorill. And he said, they're not in EDM though. You know, they said they've only done an event with me. They're not in this business. But everybody was very fearful after their involvement. They even met with the Live Nation executives and Live Nation told them that they weren't part of the show. They were just going to push a button and cancel it in two seconds. That's what ended up happening.

A (7:36)

Okay, that's tough. Now this is just me speaking out loud. Why didn't you take the deal? Give the perception you kicked out your partners, then have a side deal where you still pay them and it turns out a win win for everyone. Live Nation gets what they. And at least you're making some money on shows that you had.

B (7:56)

Well, I grew up in New Jersey and I came from nothing. I built myself to the top. And in New Jersey I had the mafia threaten me many times and mafia literally put guns in my mouth, threaten, you know, take me out. If I didn't pay him, I didn't pay them and they let me do business. So I wasn't going to let this bully sit there and tell me, take your partners out and have to cut some shady side deal with these guys because this billion dollar company wants a festival when they're nothing to do with edm. They were behind the game. Me and my partners were the pioneers of the industry.

A (8:23)

Yeah, ok, I certainly understand that and I totally get it. But the worst case scenario did happen and you totally lost your shows. But if you'd made the deal, kept your shows, you all would be making money, even though not the same amount that you probably were used to doing. I totally respect how you handled this. So what led you down that path when other people might have gone for the deal to make the money?

B (8:52)

Well, Tony, just going back to my upbringing. My dad passed away at a young age, but my dad always told me, you had a handshake deal, you never break it.

A (8:59)

Yeah, I get that. That was the way I was raised with my dad as well as I

B (9:04)

got older in life. He was in construction and I ran into people that saw him, you know, ran into me and they were like, I had like a $50,000 deal with your dad to pave the driveway and no contract, nothing. And you know what? He just shook my hand and I always got my money. So at the time I Never thought of that. I just thought at the point, I'm not going to kick my partners out. These people that are threatening, attacking, screaming like maniacs and wild animals to block all my talent and block on my ticketing. Why do I want to partner with them? I want to partner with them in the first place. From that, why would I want to partner with these people?

A (9:32)

Yeah, everything you say makes perfect sense. So what happened next after that, the

B (9:39)

town agencies, we were at, as you know from the industry, how it works. We were booking flights. We were right at that stage. All went dark. We had millions of dollars. It doesn't seem like much these days, but back then, in the EDM world, there's a lot of money. It all went dark. No phone calls were answered. The festival, we couldn't secure talent, and our contract was terminated by Al d' Orso because we were unable to perform the contract. After that, I lost my career, I allege and I will prove a trial. I get a trial day soon. I was nominated at the time as the number one promoter by the New Jersey Star Ledger, by the fans. Live Nation had my name removed after they wiped me out of the festival from being the number one promoter from the award. My reputation then was destroyed in the industry. Agents wouldn't pick up my call anymore. Club owners wouldn't talk. And then I was blacklisted and out of the industry.

A (10:26)

Okay, so that's a whirlwind of things to happen when all the dust settled. They seem like they've won that battle. You decided not to give up. What was your next step? To take this to the next level.

B (10:43)

Yeah, I ended up. Ended up going homeless from this for about a month. Then after this had all transpired, then I decided to get an attorney and take them to court. My goal at the time, probably being naive, was I have tape recordings of their top executives confessing to everything I'm saying right now. Everything I say, I have the receipts. So I assumed that Live Nation with the tape recordings would apologize, give me some money to get back my festival going and give me my festival back. They promoted the people they did it to VP of talent, to president of talent, and the guy that they call crazy in a scene, John d', Esposito, they produced a huge documentary promoting how crazy and a scene it was on the Bamboozle Festival. So it was not how I anticipated it. And we anticipated a trial, if anything, within one year. It's been on 15 years now.

A (11:28)

Wow, that's unbelievable. What has been happening over the last 15 years? What's been going on.

B (11:37)

Well, when the case first started off, Live Nation was ordered by a federal judge, Judge Mannion, to turn over discovery within 30 days. Live Nation defied that court order for over, I believe, three to four years. My lawyers kept going back to the court, asking. Finally the lawyer, his name was David at the time, said, we know we're like wearing out of our welcome the plaintiffs, but we're entitled to this discovery. Live Nation's only turned over 5% of discovery to this day, which doesn't surprise me because recently in recent times, the Senate subpoenaed them and for information, I don't think they ever turned that over. So we finally ran out of money to be able to fighting over the discovery. So we had to continue the case after that with only 5% of the discovery.

A (12:14)

Unfortunately, that's what these big companies do. They rely on their big pockets to wear down the opposition, hoping that you'll either give in or settle. The fact that you've lasted 15 years is a testament to you seeing this all the way through to the end. Do you have the same lawyer or has anything changed there?

B (12:37)

Yeah, I have a new lawyer for a long period of time, Andrew Smith, really good attorney. But it's only one attorney versus 2,000 attorneys of Live Nation from Greenberg Troy in 2000 and paralegals. So, you know, it's a tough fight. I've continued the fight and I'm continuing to fight now for the scene, for the fans, for the independent promoters. And it's been a long time, though. It's 15 years.

A (12:55)

15 years is a very long time. Do you have a trial date set yet? What's happening?

B (13:01)

I had a firm trial date of March was a 2024. And then Live Nation wanted another mediation for the 15th time. So respectfully, the court did so, and I respect the court now it's. I'm set up for November 18th for oral arguments where Live Nation is trying to eliminate. I have 500 trial exhibits, plenty of witnesses. Live Nation has zero exhibits and zero witnesses. They're trying to eliminate 497 of those 500 documents. It was October, the hearing, it got moved. So it's November 18th, New Jersey federal court.

A (13:33)

Is that this year?

B (13:34)

Yes, this year.

A (13:35)

Coming up with all this happening, what does your lawyer say? I mean, he's entrenched in this just as much as you are now. Has he given you any thoughts? What is his outlook for the future of this case?

B (13:49)

My lawyer, seeing information, seeing my case, knows my case is really good, knows I have a ton of evidence in my case supporting me. He respects that I want to take the case to trial. He respects that I don't want to be acquired or hired or just take a payout like everybody else. And he respects that I want to take this to a jury and that I want the evidence to be exposed to the public. And a lot of evidence I have that was uncovered by expert report, that was suppressed by the late Congressman Bill Pascrel out of New Jersey that he sent to the DOJ in the United States Senate, which I allege Live Nation runs a fraudulent. Basically a racket of a business with two sets of bucks. He understands that I'm fighting this now for a greater cause for fans, high ticket prices. That I believe, with my information exposed, that overnight the ticket prices would lower in the United States, 30 to 40%. So he respects my cause, that I'm. I'm fighting this for independent promoters, artist, and really for fans. I was an early victim of the Live Nation Ticketmaster merger, but there's victims every day, and the fans are the biggest victim that sit on a queue line every day, and all of a sudden the ticket's $850 for a nosebleed seat. He respects my cause, and he's going with me all the way with it, and I really appreciate that.

A (14:59)

With all the years, with all the people you've talked with, with all the artists you've talked with, have you got any support from people within the business that say, hey, I want to help you beat them?

B (15:14)

No, I have people come up to me all the time on the side. Tommy, I really appreciate what you're doing. I really respect what you're doing. Like, you're awesome. Like, you've taught this for 15 years. Nobody would do this. And they're like, I'd love to come out and publicly support you, but I can't. And I said, I totally understand. Because if you're an artist and you come out and support me, you're not gonna have a show. If you're an independent promoter, then you don't work for them already. You're gonna end up exactly where I am, selling cable, and I don't want to. You know, that's just what it is. So I. I don'. The artist for not coming out and saying it publicly. I know Kid Rock recently just came out, but he has some politics. I help him, I believe. You know, I don't. I don't blame the artists, and I don't blame the independent promoters for not speaking out publicly for me. A few have but most, and, but behind the scenes, they're all supporting for me and rooting for me. They just, you know, and I tell them, I understand, I don't want you to come speak out for me because I don't want you to be. Have no money, you know, no shows.

A (16:04)

What about others that have had issues with them? It seems that if everyone got together, there could be a class action lawsuit against them and it would be a bigger situation than just one person against a big giant like them.

B (16:20)

Yeah, I'm not a lawyer. I don't know on that side with class action stuff. I just knew my, my resources were limited. I didn't have the money of a Live Nation, obviously.

A (16:29)

Yeah, right, right.

B (16:30)

So I didn't join with any. Nobody's joined. It joined in my suit.

A (16:35)

So it's basically you against the world.

B (16:39)

Yeah, it's me against Live Nation, which is as powerful as the world, I guess you can say these days.

A (16:45)

Yeah, pretty much when you're against a huge company like that. Now, are you okay with everything you're saying here? Hopefully what you're doing is putting more information out there. But the last thing I want is this to hurt you in any way with the suit that you've got going.

B (17:04)

Well, everything I'm saying, I'm saying of public information, okay. It's either on pacer, put out by a congressman. That report which alleges that Live Nation runs an illegal business in the billions of dollars put out by a congressman when Lab Nation's attorneys accidentally uploaded it on pacer. So everything I'm saying is the truth and everything that I'm saying has been public. I have all the receipts to back that up. But anything else private, I'm not sharing that out in the public, public domain. That's for trial.

A (17:32)

Right, right. That makes great sense. Now, what are the expectations that you have for the first court appearance that you have coming up very, very soon?

B (17:44)

I know the courts are very busy. I respect that and I respect the courts, but I'm hoping to get a trial date. I didn't speak to the press just so, you know, until like in the last year. I was quiet. Not a peep out of me. My fear is my witnesses are getting old. You know, the club industry, you know how it works and not veget. And you know, a lot of people party a lot. You know, they were, some of them were old at the time. You're 15 years later. So I decided to come out and speak publicly because my fear if my witnesses get older, you know, unable to testify Then lab Nation, their delay, delay, pressure, confused. It wins. And that's the only way I lose a trial. Otherwise, I guarantee I'll win the trial at 100%.

A (18:23)

I would think that you could get their testimony in writing, almost like a dying declaration in case the worst case was to happen. At least that way you're covered. This way the evidence is there for people to see.

B (18:39)

Yeah, absolutely. Even like someone asked me that question before. It's really good one. Depositions you can use. But trial strategy from my attorneys, where you don't want to ask everybody every single question or they're in front of a jury, you want to ask the very minimal. Then when you get in front of a jury, you want to ask them a real question because you know what they said? People tell the truth when they're sitting in front of a drawer. So that was. That's my. That's been the strategy of my legal team, and I'll leave that in their hands. But I respect it.

A (19:04)

Sure, Absolutely. Now you're hoping to get a trial date very soon. What is your lawyer telling you now? What is he thinking? I mean, you've got your wishes and then you've got your reality. What's the reality of what he's telling you and what he's hoping will happen?

B (19:23)

He says, my case is overwhelming in strength and trial date. We know the courts are busy and we respect it, but nobody could tell on a trial date. It's been 15 years, so it's hard to say.

A (19:32)

Yeah, 15 years is a long time. You think they would want to get this off the dockets now just because of the length of time it's been sitting there? The one thing they can say about you is you have been consistent and stuck with the whole program.

B (19:47)

Yeah, I've looked it up. I know. Versus Live Nation. I'm the longest lawsuit against Live Nation in the United States. Not being on appeal because I'm not on appeal. I can't even find on a Google search a case older than mine in the United States that's not on appeal. Not saying it's not out there. Again, we respect the courts. I blame Live Nation, not the court. Live Nation's gone. Just delay, delay, confused. You know, continuance. You know, I've been discovery. They turned 5% over. We gave everything. Some of. We gave emails with my business partners, like talking to their moms. We gave everything over. Nothing to hide. And got massive amount of trial exhibits and really want to just bring it in front of a jury and want to have it out there for the public to see. And so it can really help the fans and I believe it's going to really help lower the ticket price is my evidence from my case.

A (20:31)

Yeah, you stuck with it probably longer than anyone would even think about doing it. Now, for the listeners that are listening to this, where can they find more information about what you're doing, what you've been through, so they can get a better idea of what you've actually been through over the last 15 years in fighting this?

B (20:56)

Yeah, they can go on my website, tommydjuice entertainment.com they can go on there. Tommydjuice entertainment.com and I just asked, just ask for their support. If you want lower ticket prices, you want a fair scene where independent promoters can thrive. I ask for the support and artists can pick where they want to perform, not just one monopoly, that which there is right now.

A (21:15)

Do you have links on your site where they can go to find out more information and a lot of things that you're saying? I know a true. But they need to see it in other areas so that way they can follow you.

B (21:29)

Yeah, there's some links on there. It goes to my TikTok other ones on there. But that's a great point, Tony. I'll actually update it a little bit more on a little bit more of the background history of myself. I'll update it a little bit more.

A (21:39)

Yeah, I think that it is very important for them to hear and see what you've been through. This music business has a lot of things in it over the past 50 years or so that have not been good. It's been taking a lot of research for people to figure this out. So I think that this is a great thing for you to put out there so they can follow you. Not only can they follow you, but they can also follow any links that you might have on there that will give them the information that they need to know too.

B (22:12)

Yeah, I have links on there where Congressman Pascrell found my expert report that was suppressed by Live Nation and accidentally uploaded to the court where he sent it to the DOJ in the Senate. Those links are all on my website. There's a lot of articles that were written about my case on there. Links are on my website and they can also Google my name out. There's a pretty decent amount of information.

A (22:32)

Yeah, that's great. I think the more information that people have, the better it is for everyone. Now, what do you think is important? What is important for the listeners to take away from everything that you've been through? Everything that you're going through right now, what's important for them to gain for knowledge so that they will follow this all the way to the end right along with you.

B (22:59)

I think the most important thing that they can take away from this is I'm sticking up and I've fought this for 15 years. In the beginning it was an economic dispute. I did it to get my money and get my festival back. Over time now I thought I had a moral obligation. After the information that I believe I'm one of the only people that have Live Nation's backset of books that I allege is a racket. I've decided that I'm going to fight this and continue this. And I'm continuing it because of the fans, the artists, independent promoters. I believe the scene that Live nations killed in the ever increasing ticket prices, Live Nation inflation, it's artificially and created and the evidence that I have off their cookbooks, I know is the reason, I believe why allege and I'll prove it at trial is the reason. So. So I'm fighting it for now for fans to be able to get lower ticket prices. Look, their CEO just went out on national TV and said, let's raise ticket prices. How many of your listeners are real happy or in a stadium if he jumps out of MetLife Stadium now Michael Rapinoe says let's raise ticket prices. I don't think fans are going to be really happy about that. So I'm fighting this for the fans now and I'm fighting this for other independent promoters. I'm fighting, I have kids, 11 year old who wants to run concerts. I'm telling them, go to college. I didn't go to college, but you can't run the scene that I did. He's like, yeah, you're chilling with Snoop Dogg at those pictures over there. I said, yeah, I went from chilling with Snoop Dogg drinking champagne to being homeless within a within a year. I said, so you know what? You can't do that. You're not able to do that in this industry unless something happens with your dad's case or the Department of Justice. So I'm fighting this for other people's kids too, not just my own. And I'm really fighting this for the fans and for the industry that I love and music that I love and at a fair industry again. So artists can pick which promoter they want to play for instead of like, you know, how nice would it be if there's 10 different promoters and you can pick who has better production, who has better Cost. Who has better, safer safety, Secure, safer security, you know, astral tragedy. But they can't do so. And I don't blame the artist. You have one choice. You want a worldwide stadium tour, you gotta be with Live Nation at Ticketmaster. There's no one else for the scene that I love and that created me, who I became. I'm fighting it for that as well.

A (25:00)

Yeah, I think that's awesome. Now, you say you have a lot of people backing you. Have you had the opposite? Have you had people going, hey, what the hell are you doing? You're out there making noise. You're disrupting everything. You're putting yourself in danger. Have you had that happen to you?

B (25:20)

Well, I've definitely had people tell me, hey, you're putting yourself in danger doing this with a $36 billion company. That's for sure. Just even family members. I've had people from the. That deal with the secondary market. Now, actually, some of them are rallying around my side after they've realize what I stand for and learned a little bit more about my case because I believe the secondary market needs to be fixed as well. But I feel like the way I mentioned, I break it down to them and now they respect my cause. I'm like, look, to me, it's like a bank robbery. And the one I allege is robbing the bank is Live Nation. The guy that's holding the van door open, that's the scalper. He should be prosecuted. He should go to jail. So I'm. I am support of changes in the secondary market that need to be made. Some of those ones had stood up against me. Now a lot of them are actually understanding what I stand for and that I don't support scalpers because I don't like scalper. They're now actually starting to rally behind me.

A (26:10)

Well, that's good. It's always nice to have people within the industry supporting you on what you're trying to do because ultimately, if you win, then everyone else will win right along with you. Needless to say, I am definitely wishing you all the best and hoping that this can get over for you very soon. So I really appreciate you taking the time to join us today and tell us your story.

B (26:35)

Yeah, thank you. Thank you very much for having me on and it's a pleasure and congratulations on how well your show's doing.

A (26:41)

Oh, it's been my pleasure. Thanks again. Thanks for joining us today. We hope you enjoyed the show. This has been a Tony Mantour production. For more information, contact medialatomusic.com.