Caroline Calloway: A Captioned History | Too Many Tabs Podcast - Too Many Tabs with Pearlmania500

Summary6 min read

Too Many Tabs Podcast: Caroline Calloway: A Captioned History

Episode: Caroline Calloway: A Captioned History | Too Many Tabs Podcast
Release Date: December 8, 2024
Hosts: Pearlmania500 (Pearl) and Mrs. P

Introduction

In this compelling episode of Too Many Tabs, hosts Pearlmania500 and Mrs. P delve deep into the enigmatic rise and controversial fall of Caroline Calloway, an Instagram influencer turned literary figure. Stripping away the glitz and glamour of social media fame, the duo unpacks the intricate web of ambition, deception, and the quest for authenticity that defined Calloway's public persona.

Caroline Calloway's Rise as an Instagram Influencer

Pearl (Host 1) begins by tracing Calloway's early endeavors on Instagram. Starting her account in June 2012, Calloway sought to carve a niche by coining the hashtag #AdventureGrams, sharing curated images of her travels and social exploits.

[19:22] Pearl: "She created hashtag #AdventureGrams. That's so cool. This is only 12 years ago."

Calloway's strategy was multifaceted:

Buying Followers: In 2012, she admitted to purchasing 40,000 followers for just $4.99, a tactic that smiles back in today’s influencer economy.

[16:40] Mrs. P: "She bought her first 40,000 followers for $4.99."
Targeted Advertising: She invested in Instagram ads, specifically targeting Harry Potter and young adult (YA) novel fan accounts, effectively expanding her follower base to over 500,000 by 2015.

[26:17] Mrs. P: "She targeted almost every post towards users that followed Harry Potter or YA novel fan accounts."

Calloway meticulously crafted her online image, blending romanticized British aesthetics with American charm, reminiscent of shows like Emily in Paris.

Securing a Book Deal and Withdrawal

With a substantial following, Calloway aimed to transition from social media to publishing. In 2015, she secured a $375,000 book deal with Flat Iron Books, intending to capitalize on her online fame.

[31:54] Pearl: "In 2015, Caroline Calloway signed a book deal with Flat Iron books for $375,000."

However, Calloway's ambitions were overshadowed by personal struggles:

Forged Transcripts: To gain admission into Cambridge, she falsified her school transcripts, manipulating grades to present herself as an exceptional student.

[29:04] Pearl: "She forged her transcripts...getting a book deal under false pretenses."
Adderall Addiction: Reports emerged of her deepening Adderall addiction, which compounded her inability to deliver on her literary promises.

[32:00] Mrs. P: "While this was happening, Calloway was reportedly descending into a deep Adderall addiction."

As deadlines loomed, Calloway's inability to produce the promised manuscript led to turmoil, ultimately resulting in her pulling out of the book deal in 2017. This decision not only left her owing $100,000 to Flat Iron Books but also tarnished her reputation among her followers.

The Workshop Debacle

In 2018, Calloway attempted to reinvent herself by launching a series of personal workshops aimed at teaching writing, personal branding, and wellness. Leveraging her Instagram following, she sold out multiple events through Eventbrite without adequate planning or resources.

[34:09] Pearl: "She collected money for tickets and quickly sold out many of the US tour dates. But she hadn't booked event spaces or hired photographers."

The execution was disastrous:

Massive Overestimation: Booking 1,200 mason jars for mini gardens overwhelmed her West Village apartment.
Culinary Failures: Promising homemade salads, she found herself unable to cater for 50 people the night before each event.
Broken Promises:
- Handwritten Letters: She abandoned the idea, citing delays.
- Orchid Crowns: Replaced with clip-in flowers due to time constraints.

[36:15] Pearl: "She promised homemade salads but realized cooking for 50 people the night before an event was impossible."

The resulting chaos led to widespread online backlash, drawing comparisons to infamous scams like Fyre Fest.

Media Scrutiny and Falling Out

Calloway's missteps didn't go unnoticed. Natalie Beach, a former friend and collaborator, penned a revealing essay in The Cut detailing their tumultuous relationship and exposing Calloway's manipulative tendencies.

[54:06] Mrs. P: "Natalie Beach wrote in The Cut, 'When I first met Carolyn Calloway, all I saw was the beginning of something extraordinary.'"

Key revelations from the essay included:

Emotional Manipulation: Calloway often demanded attention and assistance without reciprocating.
Deceptive Practices: Instances like stolen Yale plates were questioned for their authenticity.
Ghostwriting: Beach acted as Calloway's ghostwriter, highlighting the uneven dynamic in their collaboration.

This exposé ignited a viral discussion online, leading to a swift decline in Calloway's fanbase and the defunding of dedicated fan accounts.

[59:52] Pearl: "Everyone on the Internet was talking about the plates along with all the other stuff, but the plates really did get memeified."

Subsequent Ventures and Attempts at Redemption

Undeterred by the backlash, Calloway sought alternative revenue streams:

Art Sales: She began crafting and selling replicas of Matisse's "Blue Nudes", branding them as interpretative art pieces.

[67:04] Mrs. P: "She starts crafting this art and selling it to her followers for a couple of hundred bucks a piece."
OnlyFans Account: Named "Only Scams", she offered "cerebral softcore porn" dressed as characters from Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged".

[72:02] Pearl: "She's selling bottles of facial oil...and then she creates an OnlyFans account, which she calls 'Only Scams,' featuring photos of her topless cosplaying as Dagny Taggart."
Hurricane Diary: In October 2024, during Hurricane Milton, Calloway decided to document her experience rather than evacuate, further blurring the lines between personal crisis and performative content.

[86:23] Pearl: "In October 2024, Carolyn Calloway made news again because she decided to ride out Hurricane Milton rather than evacuate."

Despite these efforts, her ventures were met with skepticism, with critics labeling them as desperate attempts to regain lost ground rather than genuine initiatives.

Final Thoughts and Conclusions

Throughout the episode, Pearl and Mrs. P grapple with the complexities of Calloway's actions:

Intent vs. Mental Health: They ponder whether Calloway's failures were deliberate scams or symptoms of a deeper mental health crisis.

[45:00] Pearl: "I don't think it was a scam. I think she's just having a mental health crisis situation and didn't understand the heavy lift that it is."
Impact on Followers: The duo underscores the detrimental effects of Calloway's actions on her audience, who invested time and money into her perceived authenticity.
Reflection on Social Media Fame: The episode serves as a critique of the influencer-driven attention economy, highlighting how visibility can be manipulated and the fragility of online personas.

[80:17] Pearl: "It's stealing time and attention from you... that's just as bad as other scams."

In closing, Pearl emphasizes the importance of critical engagement with online personalities, urging listeners to discern genuine content from performative deception.

[90:12] Pearl: "She is a reflection of the Internet and the times. An embodiment of the BuzzFeed-esque scammer."

Notable Quotes

[19:22] Pearl: "She created hashtag #AdventureGrams. That's so cool. This is only 12 years ago."
[16:40] Mrs. P: "She bought her first 40,000 followers for $4.99."
[31:54] Pearl: "In 2015, Caroline Calloway signed a book deal with Flat Iron books for $375,000."
[45:00] Pearl: "I don't think it was a scam. I think she's just having a mental health crisis situation and didn't understand the heavy lift that it is."
[80:17] Pearl: "It's stealing time and attention from you... that's just as bad as other scams."

Conclusion

This episode of Too Many Tabs offers a thorough examination of Caroline Calloway's journey through the treacherous waters of social media fame, ambition, and personal unraveling. Through detailed analysis and poignant reflections, Pearl and Mrs. P shed light on the broader implications of influencer culture and the vulnerabilities it exposes in both creators and audiences.

For listeners keen on understanding the dynamics of digital personas and their real-world repercussions, this episode serves as a cautionary tale and a call for more authentic engagement in the ever-evolving online landscape.

Loading summary

Transcript1,143 lines

[00:01]
T-Mobile Representative
At T Mobile, we'll give you four free 5G phones and four lines for only $25 per line per month with eligible trade ins. And no, it's not a contest. It's every day for a limited time. Everyone's a winner on America's largest 5G network.
[00:13]
Minimum of 4 lines for $25 per line per month with autopay discount using debit or bank account. $5 more per line without autopay. Up to $830 off each phone via 24 monthly bill credits plus taxes, fees and $10 device connection charge for well qualified customers. Contact us before canceling entire account to continue bill credits or credit stop and balance on required finance agreement due bill credits end if you pay off devices early. CT mobile.com.
[00:32]
Host 1
Welcome to Too Many Tabs, a podcast where a husband and wife duo sit across from each other at a desk. That's right. If you ran all of these intros back to back to back, you would notice that they're the same every single time. But this time is different. How is this time different? Because this time I'm going to actually explain to you what this podcast is about. You see, on this podcast, one of the member of this married pair does research on a topic. They collect all that information, they click on all the hyperlinks, they open up so many different tabs, and then they take those tabs and they slowly put them together into a document. What does that document do? That document becomes this podcast. That podcast is that marital partner reading that document back to their spouse as their spouse reacts in live time. And that is designed in a way that will fit advertising perfectly in between the breaks. Unless you're a Patreon member, in which case you will only get advertising if I forget to cut it out. So with that, Mrs. P, are you ready?
[01:33]
Host 2
Yep, I'm ready.
[01:33]
Host 1
I think I'm ready too. For too many tabs, too many frauds and too many scammers that we wish weren't real. Too many cons and too many spammers. And we're starting to feel like we've got too many tabs.
[01:51]
Host 2
Open it.
[01:54]
Host 1
Too many tabs. Remember to smile. We're back here. We're back here for another episode.
[02:05]
Host 2
Listen.
[02:05]
Host 1
It's a barn burner.
[02:06]
Host 2
We're in the final countdown of this year.
[02:08]
Host 1
We are in the final countdown of not only this year, but also of season two of two.
[02:12]
Host 2
I can't believe it.
[02:13]
Host 1
It's been a full season.
[02:14]
Host 2
Believe we did a whole second season.
[02:16]
Host 1
It's crazy.
[02:17]
Host 2
We sit down generally and talk about a season three.
[02:20]
Host 1
I know. And we're, we're really, we're really looking at a lot of different ideas for what season.
[02:23]
Host 2
We got a lot of ideas.
[02:25]
Host 1
Season one, for those of you guys who don't know. Season one, A lot of experimentation. The show originally was called Pearl Mania 500. Somebody pointed out that, hey, you can't find that because if you type in Pearlmania 500, just you show up.
[02:36]
Host 2
Yeah, just you.
[02:37]
Host 1
They're like, you should probably come up with a different name. So we came up with Too many tabs. Yeah, A lot of assistants there. And I've been since been told that there is a German podcast called Too Many Tabs. Well, sucks to be German. Anyway, we're.
[02:50]
Host 2
What's their podcast about? Don't answer it.
[02:52]
Host 1
Listen. It's about how they can't get a good bagel. Now this podcast though, has been doing gangbusters. We've been having such a good time and just we, we love not only our fan base, but the listeners so much because our podcast has this cool thing where people are like, oh, I just found your podcast. I'm listening to. I'm like, oh, cool. What do you think of most recent episode? They're like, I'm two years back and.
[03:16]
Host 2
It'S so funny because people inboxing me like, I just listened to your Hilaria Baldwin episode and I'm like, number one, I know it's crazy because she has a fake tum tum.
[03:23]
Host 1
Yeah.
[03:24]
Host 2
Number two, I don't remember anything we said. Tell me everything.
[03:26]
Host 1
And then meanwhile I'm over here like we were a blue Snowball plug in USB mic that's before the board. So there's a couple things we're gonna do is is we're gonna do this episode and then next week you have a book club. A book club episode. I know it feels like book club on book club, but this is special.
[03:45]
Host 2
This is a literary podcast. No, I'm just kidding.
[03:47]
Host 1
Yeah, but it just happened that way. It's a Christmas book club because.
[03:50]
Host 2
Wait, you're telling them the secrets about the Christmas book club?
[03:52]
Host 1
No, I'm not telling them all the secrets. I'm just saying it's, it's. It's Christmas. Okay, calm down. Now, with that being said, we have decided and kind of in general, we started last year, but it's kind of what we're going to stick with. Yeah, typically after the 15th, we're going to take a break. We're going to take a little break, Holiday break. It's a Combination. It's our kid's birthday, it's the holidays, People are in and out. But we don't want to leave you guys hanging. So what we're going to do is we are going to go find two of our favorite episodes. Maybe from season one, maybe from season two. We're going to look through and kind of pick one and we're going to re upload them. Yeah, Maybe with a new intro, but that'll be kind of like our little breaky and what we want you guys to do during that time or even when you're listening to this podcast right now. This is the call to action section. Just so you guys know, we've been.
[04:34]
Host 2
Told we need to do a call to action.
[04:35]
Host 1
Yeah, Call to action.
[04:36]
Host 2
We are bad about it, apparently.
[04:37]
Host 1
Yeah. And by the way, if you're wondering who we keep referencing is who we have been telling us. It's George Soros. It's George Soros and Elon Musk at the same time.
[04:46]
Host 2
They have our number and we've been calling.
[04:49]
Host 1
But basically, if you could like review, comment, anything, leave a comment on YouTube.
[04:55]
Host 2
Subscribe, ring the bell.
[04:56]
Host 1
Ring that bell. Icon.
[04:59]
Host 2
A five star review on Spotify or itunes.
[05:02]
Host 1
Yeah. On Apple, Apple podcast, wherever you listen. Just because the more you tell the algorithms and the more you tell our great overlords that are the tech bros that now actually own our government, the more you tell them super cool and.
[05:13]
Host 2
Have a lot of hair and big penises. I've been saying that. I've been saying, I just want to.
[05:17]
Host 1
Say Jeff Bezos, very viral, very, very handsome man. Not divorced at all. Now, Elon Musk just, I want to just say, never went to Turkey. He never went to Turkey.
[05:28]
Host 2
Never did.
[05:29]
Host 1
Genetically superior to everyone else because look at his hairline. It's so natural.
[05:33]
Host 2
It's so good.
[05:34]
Host 1
Now please, you know, give us a, like, give us a subscribe or wherever you listen to podcasts, all those different things. Obviously to the Patreon members, you guys keep doing what you're going to do. This is for all. This is for all that. Yeah.
[05:47]
Host 2
You ready to get in this house now?
[05:48]
Host 1
I am ready to get in this episode.
[05:49]
Host 2
Do we have anything else on our little opening list?
[05:51]
Host 1
No. One last thing I would say I am. I got picked up for a show where I might be recording a mini special.
[05:58]
Host 2
Oh, yeah.
[05:58]
Host 1
For doing Stand up. I'm gonna be opening for my friend Doogie Horner in Philadelphia at Underground Arts.
[06:03]
Host 2
I'll put the link. Let me tell you something about Doogie Horner. When Alex And I first met, you know, he was a stand up comedian.
[06:10]
Host 1
Yeah.
[06:11]
Host 2
And I got introduced to many of the comedians of the Philadelphia, New York area. And. And when I saw Doogie Horner, I said, I know that guy. I've seen that guy on the tv.
[06:20]
Host 1
Yeah.
[06:21]
Host 2
And you were like, what? Because he was on America's Got Talent.
[06:24]
Host 1
Yes.
[06:25]
Host 2
And it was the most Philly fucking thing I'd ever seen. I was like, doogie Horner, which again, if you look at, look up his comedy, he has this little squeaky nerd voice. It's so funny. And he got up on America's Got Talent and he was, he was bombing. He was not doing well.
[06:39]
Host 1
He's not doing well.
[06:40]
Host 2
He was crashing out, as the kids say these days. And the crowd started booing him.
[06:45]
Host 1
Yes.
[06:45]
Host 2
And that does not happen in comedy very often.
[06:47]
Host 1
It also doesn't happen to Dookie. Like, Doogie is a very, very, very good comedian and he's a very. He has a very special, like, type of way. Hi, I'm Doogie Horner.
[06:57]
Host 2
So his name matches. And. But so he started fighting the crowd.
[07:03]
Host 1
Yes.
[07:04]
Host 2
And he fought the crowd so hard that he brought them back around and by the end they were all laughing. And he got a standing ovation at the end.
[07:10]
Host 1
Yes.
[07:10]
Host 2
It was incredible. And so when I. I've met so many of your comedian friends. When we first started dating, I was like, that guy's a scumbag. That guy's not allowed in our house. That guy's weird. That guy's. That guy's funny. I like that guy. And then you're like, I hate that guy. And then I met. Do you know, like, I know that guy. He told the crowd to fudge off. I love that.
[07:26]
Host 1
Yeah. And that was like 2010.
[07:28]
Host 2
Yeah.
[07:28]
Host 1
So it's 14 years later, Doogie Horner is recording another album.
[07:32]
Host 2
Yeah.
[07:33]
Host 1
And he was like, hey, do you want to open for me? And I said, yeah, sure. So I'm going to be doing like a 20, 25 minute set, and since they're already going to have all the recording equipment set up, we might record it.
[07:40]
Host 2
That sounds cool.
[07:41]
Host 1
So there might be like a weird little fun special.
[07:43]
Host 2
I might be able to see your comedy.
[07:44]
Host 1
You might actually be able to hear the jokes that are about you, about your medical situation. Yeah, yeah. I don't know if I'm gonna do just 20 minutes. 25 minutes on your C section.
[07:55]
Host 2
I mean, it kills.
[07:56]
Host 1
It crushes it. Really. No, here's the good news, is that it didn't kill because that is a reference in the set. But anyway, for those of you guys who've heard me do stand up. That was all very funny to you. For those of you who haven't come and check out and to everyone else, we are still trying to figure out what we are gonna do for next year.
[08:12]
Host 2
Come up with plans. We got ideas.
[08:13]
Host 1
We're coming up with a lot of plans. So with that. This has been our longest intro in a while.
[08:17]
Host 2
Yeah, well, the people need it.
[08:18]
Host 1
People needed it. You know what? We're all gonna stretch a little bit. Let's take a big stretch and then we're gonna take a little break because then we are gonna come back and we're gonna do this episode, which is on Carolyn Calloway. I still don't know who that is.
[08:29]
Host 2
I know.
[08:31]
T-Mobile Representative
If you love your phone but not your carrier, just switch to T Mobile. You can keep your phone, keep your number and we'll help pay it off up to $800 per line. You can also use our savings calculator to compare our plans and streaming benefits against Verizon and AT&T. So switch and keep your phone, keep your number and keep more of your moolah. @t mobile.com up to four lines via virtual prepaid card.
[08:53]
Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device credit service port in 90 plus days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card has no cash access and expires in six months.
[09:01]
Talkspace Representative
This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. You know when you're really stressed or not feeling so great about your life or about yourself, talking to someone who understands can really help. But who is that person? How do you find them? Where do you even start Talkspace? Talkspace makes it easy to get the support you need. With Talkspace, you can go online, answer a few questions about your preferences, and be matched with a therapist. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule wherever you feel most at ease. If you're depressed, stressed, struggling with a relationship, or if you want some counseling for you and your partner or just need a little extra one on one support, Talkspace is here for you. Plus, Talkspace works with most major insurers and most insured members have a $0 copay. No insurance, no problem. Now get $80 off of your first month with promo code space80 when you go to talkspace.com, match with a licensed therapist. Today at talkspace.com save $80 with code space80 at talk.
[10:11]
Host 1
We'Re back. Here we are.
[10:12]
Host 2
We're here. You ready?
[10:13]
Host 1
Let's get right into it because that intro was super long.
[10:16]
Host 2
So listen, here's what happened. I've been thinking about. I love a Closer. We talk about this in comedy. We talk about this in. In books, you know, I love a Closer.
[10:25]
Host 1
Yeah.
[10:25]
Host 2
And I was thinking when we were talking about how we might bring some of our favorite episodes and pull them up for December while we go on our break. Some of my favorite episodes are the OG Internet gossip drama lore.
[10:39]
Host 1
Yeah.
[10:40]
Host 2
Scammerama, Ding Dongs.
[10:41]
Host 1
Like, hilarious. Baldwin.
[10:42]
Host 2
Like Hilary Bone, one of my faves. Fake Tommy, Hilarious. So I was thinking about deep Internet lore, and someone popped in my mind. And we'll get into how she got there.
[10:54]
Host 1
Okay.
[10:54]
Host 2
And this woman is named Carolyn Calloway.
[10:57]
Host 1
Okay.
[10:57]
Host 2
And I knew because I said it out loud and you looked at me like I said a whole different language and I said, there's no way you don't know who she is.
[11:06]
Host 1
I'm gonna tell you right now, every time you say her name, Caroline Calloway, I. First thing I think is Cab Calloway, an amazing musician from back in, like, the 30s. Incredible. No, not that I know. There's no relation there.
[11:18]
Host 2
No.
[11:19]
Host 1
Because she already feels like a white devil.
[11:21]
Host 2
Yep. Okay.
[11:22]
Host 1
Okay. And number two, I think a Callaway. Golf clubs.
[11:24]
Host 2
Okay.
[11:25]
Host 1
I don't know that is exactly.
[11:26]
Host 2
Sure.
[11:26]
Host 1
White devilry.
[11:27]
Host 2
Okay.
[11:28]
Host 1
So she might be related there, but that's where I. That's where I feel where my brain is with this.
[11:34]
Host 2
Okay. So Caroline Calloway is Internet famous in the deep niches of what is probably. If I was going to look at gender. Ladies. The gals. The gals know about this. Lord.
[11:47]
Host 1
Okay.
[11:47]
Host 2
There's a high percentage they know.
[11:49]
Host 1
So this is. This is a. A female focused. Yeah. Lore.
[11:54]
Host 2
It's very specific and niche, but it's so weird and it's. It lives in a little slice of my brain because again, during this time period where this was all happening, I wasn't of the Internet.
[12:07]
Host 1
Okay.
[12:08]
Host 2
I might have just gotten an Instagram. Like a personal Instagram.
[12:10]
Host 1
Okay.
[12:11]
Host 2
And that was back when we were still putting filters on food. You know, like, we were at night.
[12:15]
Host 1
Like, Instagram didn't have video.
[12:17]
Host 2
Yeah. Like, it was like a picture of me dancing at the barberry.
[12:20]
Host 1
Yeah.
[12:20]
Host 2
Right. And like, it was all filters. And, like, it was. It was that.
[12:23]
Host 1
Okay.
[12:24]
Host 2
And so I. This is drama. I knew about.
[12:27]
Host 1
You knew about this back then?
[12:28]
Host 2
Yes.
[12:29]
Host 1
That still got to you?
[12:30]
Host 2
Yeah.
[12:31]
Host 1
Okay. That's crazy.
[12:34]
Host 2
Yeah.
[12:34]
Host 1
Because you're talking about, like, 2011, 2010. And, like, you around then I would come to you with being like, I saw this thing on the thing on the Internet. You're like, fuck the Internet. We're out here eating food. We're going outside.
[12:47]
Host 2
I'm going to go ride my bike. Have you ever heard of Brooklyn?
[12:50]
Host 1
Have you ever heard of apple picking, bitch?
[12:53]
Host 2
I don't know if I went apple picking.
[12:55]
Host 1
You took me apple picking. I did, Yeah. I hated it.
[12:57]
Host 2
Oh, that's right.
[12:58]
Host 1
We nearly broke up.
[12:59]
Host 2
Yeah, you did.
[13:00]
Host 1
Because I was like, this is fucking sick.
[13:01]
Host 2
I think every adventure we went on, the beginning of our relationship, we almost broke up.
[13:04]
Host 1
Yeah.
[13:05]
Host 2
Because you're like, oh, I hate this.
[13:06]
Host 1
Yeah. And then one day I was like, oh, you're right. I should just enjoy this. Or like, just get, like, just shut up.
[13:11]
Host 2
Just shut up about it. I'm not gonna stop.
[13:13]
Host 1
No, you didn't. And then the thing is, is, like, actually over time, once I gave in, then you just like, well, now it's not fun.
[13:19]
Host 2
Just like acotar.
[13:20]
Host 1
Yeah. Once I was like, I actually enjoy it a little bit.
[13:23]
Host 2
Like, well, never mind. It's not fun.
[13:24]
Host 1
I just. Listen, I know it's like a trope for men to hate apple picking.
[13:28]
Host 2
Yeah.
[13:28]
Host 1
I feel like it's a trope because it is. It's just like, it just drives. Like, I don't mind going. I don't mind going to a farm.
[13:34]
Host 2
Yeah.
[13:34]
Host 1
I don't mind going to Orchard. But, like, the idea that this is somehow, like, getting 15 pounds of apples for $75 when I know.
[13:44]
Host 2
When I did the labor.
[13:45]
Host 1
Yeah. First thing, I did the labor. But then the second thing, though is like, I know our household. Like, I know our apple intake. Like, we can't have more heavy apple intake. Listen, we actually do have a heavy apple intake, comparatively. And by we, I mean you. I have, like, one a month. But, like, you. You don't like more than six is crazy. So to have, like, all these apples that are ripe, that aren't going to sit, they're not going to keep. We're not going to can them.
[14:11]
Host 2
Got to make some apple.
[14:12]
Host 1
That's what I'm saying is, like, you immediately have to convert all these things. I'm like, we don't have to do any of this.
[14:16]
Host 2
You're like, we.
[14:17]
Host 1
We live in a global economy right now.
[14:19]
Host 2
Right now. So anyway, for now, who is Carolyn Calloway?
[14:22]
Host 1
Who is she?
[14:23]
Host 2
Okay, so Carolyn Calloway grew up in Virginia. She described herself.
[14:27]
Host 1
I don't like it just from that.
[14:28]
Host 2
Okay. People in Virginia are very nice.
[14:30]
Host 1
Someone from Virginia stole my bong and when I was in college, and I've never forgiven the entire state of Virginia for it. And he was from Charlottesville, Virginia. Yeah, that's right. That Charlottesville. The one that brought us the Dave Matthews Band. I know most people, when they think Charlottesville, they think of Nazis with tiki torches. Not me. I think of a guy who really likes the fucking Dave Matthews Band who stole my fucking bong when I lived in college.
[14:53]
Host 2
All right, so her real name is Carolyn Gottshaw.
[14:58]
Host 1
G. Calloway's not even her real last name.
[15:00]
Host 2
So it's her last name, but her. Her. I think her last name was Gottschall and she changed it to Calloway.
[15:05]
Host 1
Okay.
[15:05]
Host 2
Is G O T S E C H A L L. Okay. So she decided she wanted Callaway because she felt it would look better on book covers someday.
[15:15]
Host 1
She wants to be an author.
[15:16]
Host 2
She wants to be an author.
[15:16]
Host 1
Okay, Writer. So do we know what type of writer she wants to be? If she just wants to be a.
[15:20]
Host 2
Writer, she doesn't be a writer. And she changed her name at 17.
[15:23]
Host 1
Oh, wow.
[15:24]
Host 2
So she knew out the gate.
[15:26]
Host 1
Okay.
[15:26]
Host 2
She was like, I need.
[15:27]
Host 1
So she's always been annoying.
[15:28]
Host 2
Yeah.
[15:29]
Host 1
Because, like, 17 is a wild time to do that. I mean, like, that's just like, crazy 18. I'd be like, all right, fine. But, like, 17. I'm like, you did paperwork.
[15:36]
Host 2
A lot of people.
[15:37]
Host 1
That's a lot of paperwork.
[15:39]
Host 2
So here's the thing. Caroline Calloway is, at her core, a white gallon on Instagram. She's just a pretty, blondish white girl on Instagram. Okay. And that's. That's basically the whole thing. What? Also, she is. Is a bit of a scammer. She's a scammer, but a bit of a liar, maybe.
[16:03]
Host 1
Do I hit the allegedly button?
[16:04]
Host 2
No, you don't have to. So the thing is, in 2015, she had. Or 2012. Let's start 2012, she had a lot of Instagram followers. Right. Okay. For then. Yeah, for 2012.
[16:21]
Host 1
Yeah. That's back when, like, having, like, 50,000 Instagram followers. People like, you're a God.
[16:25]
Host 2
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So the thing is, she acknowledged. Maybe she didn't. Again, she is such a pathological liar that she acknowledged, but then she didn't. You know what I mean? That she bought her first 40,000 followers for $4.99.
[16:41]
Host 1
Oh.
[16:43]
Host 2
So, like, she was big, but she was also buying Instagram followers.
[16:48]
Host 1
You know, that reminds me of Newt Gingrich. What do you know Newt Gingrich is.
[16:53]
Host 2
I mean, I know who he is.
[16:54]
Host 1
Yeah. Former speaker of the House from like the 90s and, and led the Clinton impeachment.
[16:58]
Host 2
Okay.
[16:59]
Host 1
Newt Gingrich, when he was on Twitter, it was like, this was. Again, this is around the same time as Caroline Calloway.
[17:04]
Host 2
Okay.
[17:05]
Host 1
Newt Gingrich. Gingrich was, was caught buying followers because people were like, your follower to engagement count is crazy broken. Yeah, it's crazy cuz it's like he had like 200,000 or whatever. I don't know the exact number. He had like a, a shit ton of followers on Twitter.
[17:21]
Host 2
Yeah.
[17:21]
Host 1
But then like his tweets were getting like five likes. Yeah, like that just doesn't happen.
[17:26]
Host 2
Yeah, it doesn't make sense.
[17:27]
Host 1
It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
[17:29]
Host 2
So Carolyn's a student at nyu.
[17:31]
Host 1
Okay.
[17:31]
Host 2
And so she's in nyu, she's changed her name, she wants to be an author. And she's. She started this Instagram account and she wants to get followers because she has this idea in her head that if she can get enough followers, she can get a book deal. If she can become enough famous on Instagram, she can get a book deal.
[17:48]
Host 1
Okay. So she's ahead of the curve.
[17:49]
Host 2
She's way ahead of the fucking curve. Yeah, she's ahead of the curve so much you could buy followers and they wouldn't know. Yeah, there was no. Nothing. Tracking it the way it does now.
[17:57]
Host 1
Yeah. Yeah. Cuz I actually get a thing all the time when I open up my Instagram, I'll check my followers and it's. It'll actually be like, hey, just so you know, there's like 900 bots trying to follow you. Do you want to hit this button and delete them? And I'm like, oh, yeah, I hit delete. And then. Or it'll tell me like, hey, these, a bunch of these accounts have been abandoned. Oh, you're about to see your numbers go down. Like it tells me now. Yeah, it's like we know these aren't.
[18:15]
Host 2
Companies that would, let's say, publish a book.
[18:17]
Host 1
Yeah.
[18:18]
Host 2
They look at engagement versus followers.
[18:20]
Host 1
Yeah.
[18:20]
Host 2
And also you can look on the back end and see what a purchase looks like, because it goes from like 50,000 to 100,000 if they all follow in one day.
[18:28]
Host 1
Yeah.
[18:28]
Host 2
They know it's bots.
[18:29]
Host 1
Yeah.
[18:30]
Host 2
It's not even natural stuff now.
[18:32]
Host 1
Yeah. And that's.
[18:33]
Host 2
Back then in 2012, they didn't know.
[18:34]
Host 1
Exactly. And that's actually a big thing because Again, when we're in, like when I'm doing short form videos on instagram or on TikTok and I do do a brand deal, they always talk about. I'm always like, well, you know, my followers are here. So I guess that's going to mean. That's like. No, no. Is your consistency on how much engagement you get?
[18:48]
Host 2
Yeah.
[18:49]
Host 1
So if you make a post and you have 3 million followers, but your post is only seen by fucking 15 people, why the fuck are they going to pay for that?
[18:55]
Host 2
Yeah, they're not.
[18:55]
Host 1
And so. Exactly. Yeah.
[18:57]
Host 2
Before then, she is ahead of the curve. She has this idea that if she can get a popular social media, she can get a book deal.
[19:03]
Host 1
Yeah.
[19:03]
Host 2
And she is way ahead of it. Right?
[19:05]
Host 1
Yeah.
[19:05]
Host 2
So she pours all this effort into her Instagram to try to get this book deal. Her first post was on June 5th of 2012. She mostly posts about traveling and doing fun things. And she created a hashtag which was adventure Grams. Okay. Hashtag adventure.
[19:23]
Host 1
She created hashtag adventure.
[19:24]
Host 2
She created hashtag adventure Grams.
[19:26]
Host 1
That's so cool. This is. This is only. This is only 12 years ago.
[19:31]
Host 2
Yeah.
[19:32]
Host 1
And we're talking about inventing the hashtag Adventure Grams.
[19:35]
Host 2
Yeah.
[19:37]
Host 1
We've lived so long.
[19:39]
Host 2
We've been alive for too long.
[19:40]
Host 1
We've been alive for.
[19:41]
Host 2
On the Internet.
[19:42]
Host 1
I cannot stress to you. I've been reading more and more about like older times and like reading more into that stuff. And it was like. Yeah. And then there's nothing happened for six months.
[19:50]
Host 2
What was that like?
[19:51]
Host 1
Oh, God, you fucks.
[19:52]
Host 2
Can you imagine?
[19:54]
Host 1
Then they invented time.
[19:55]
Host 2
So after she was at NYU and she decides to leave NYU and goes to Cambridge in England. She gets into Cambridge.
[20:05]
Host 1
Oh, wow. Okay.
[20:06]
Host 2
Okay.
[20:07]
Host 1
I thought you were gonna say Cambridge, Massachusetts.
[20:08]
Host 2
Nope.
[20:09]
Host 1
She goes across the pond.
[20:10]
Host 2
She has an idea in her mind that American women and girls would love to watch the adventures of a young woman in the storied halls of England's oldest institution. After all, she had grown up obsessed with Harry Potter and she knew many Americans loved learning about British culture. So she set. So she decides she's gonna go to Cambridge.
[20:30]
Host 1
I'm already mad. Hold on, just time out. I'm already mad. Yeah, just give me a minute.
[20:35]
Host 2
Okay.
[20:35]
Host 1
You gotta give me a minute.
[20:36]
Host 2
I'm giving you time.
[20:37]
Host 1
I'm so mad because first thing, the line of she grew up with Harry Potter. And we're talking about 2012. I just wanna let you guys know, I didn't know about Harry Potter until I was an adult working at a Borders Books.
[20:49]
Host 2
Yeah.
[20:50]
Host 1
I was working at a bookstore, and I think, like, the second or third book was just coming out.
[20:54]
Host 2
Yeah.
[20:55]
Host 1
And they were like, the second or third book, I was like, okay, whatever. What is this shit? And, like, I just had no context for it. I didn't care. And I was like, I find whatever. Whatever gets people reading. Yeah, but just every little line, like, now, when somebody in the 2020 would be like, yeah, I grew up with Harry Potter. I'm like, sure, okay. Yeah, that's fine. But the fact is, in 2012, and she. I grew up with Harry Potter.
[21:14]
Host 2
Yeah.
[21:15]
Host 1
But.
[21:15]
Host 2
But also, she's so right.
[21:17]
Host 1
Yes, she's completely right. She's 100%.
[21:19]
Host 2
There was an obsession, specifically in 2012, with that. Oh, that esthetic.
[21:23]
Host 1
Yeah.
[21:24]
Host 2
And, like, so she.
[21:26]
Host 1
I remember people having the Harry Potter. The thing with you where you chase the golden thing.
[21:31]
Host 2
Snitch.
[21:31]
Host 1
The golden snitch.
[21:32]
Host 2
Stitch.
[21:33]
Host 1
Yeah. Yeah. What. What's the umbrella. Not the umbrella game. The fucking. The. The broom game with the snitch. They run around. Quidditch.
[21:42]
Host 2
Quidditch. Okay.
[21:43]
Host 1
I remember people playing Quidditch in Philadelphia wearing scarves, like, in public parks.
[21:48]
Host 2
Oh, God.
[21:48]
Host 1
And I remember staying there, and I was hammered. I was so drunk, and I was there with, like, another comedian, and I saw it, and they were like, we should make fun of this. And I was like, why? And, like, what? And I'm like, don't engage with this. We're just gonna walk away.
[22:03]
Host 2
We're just having their own drink.
[22:03]
Host 1
They're happy. It's fine.
[22:06]
Host 2
Yeah.
[22:06]
Host 1
But, like, also, let's just ignore this, and it'll go away. And then, you know what happened? J.K. rowling bought a castle full of mold. And it turfed her brain.
[22:16]
Host 2
It turfed her brain. Mold will do that. Get your mold checked out.
[22:18]
Host 1
Yep. Get your mold checked.
[22:20]
Host 2
So, real quick, can we take a break?
[22:22]
Host 1
We barely said anything.
[22:23]
Host 2
I know. Well, we had a really long opening. Okay, so I need to take a break because I need to get. Pull up her Instagram and so I can show you some pictures.
[22:30]
Host 1
Okay.
[22:30]
Host 2
Okay.
[22:31]
Host 1
We'll take a break, and then we come right back. We'll go into that.
[22:33]
Host 2
Yeah.
[22:35]
T-Mobile Representative
If you love your phone but not your carrier, just switch to T Mobile. You can keep your phone, keep your number, and we'll help pay it off. Up to $800 per line. You can also use our savings calculator to compare our plans and streaming benefits against Verizon and AT&T. So switch and keep your phone, keep your number, and keep more of your moolah. @t mobile.com up to 4 lines via virtual prepaid card.
[22:57]
Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service port in 90 plus days with device ineligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card has no cash access and expires in six months.
[23:07]
Host 1
When it comes to phone service, Mint Mobile has hit the jackpot. Save tons of money with premium wireless that only costs $15 a month. All plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text. It's all delivered in the nation's largest 5G network too.
[23:23]
Host 2
Yeah, my dad and brother both use Mint Mobile and they both love it.
[23:27]
Host 1
Yeah, it's been pretty great. And honestly, they've had it for years and from what they told us about it, I've actually been looking at it because I've been very unhappy with our current provider and what they're paying. I don't want to say their name, but yeah, I'm actually getting very close to, to trying this out myself. So. Keep your same phone, keep your same number and keep all of your contacts. The only thing that's gonna change is the extra money in your pocket to get this new customer offer and your new 3 month premium wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month. Go to mintmobile.com tabs that's mintmobile.com tabs to cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com tabs $45 upfront payment required, equivalent to a $15 a month plan. New customers on first 3 month plan only. Speed slower above 40gb on unlimited plan. Additional taxes, fees and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details. We're back.
[24:34]
Host 2
We're back. Okay, so I want to show you some pictures of what she's posting on Instagram at Cambridge.
[24:39]
Host 1
Okay.
[24:39]
Host 2
Okay, so this is some highlight reels. So you can see. He's showing the iPad to the camera.
[24:47]
Host 1
The iPad to the camera.
[24:48]
Host 2
So you can see. It's like her out front of, you know, British estates, her at parties.
[24:53]
Host 1
Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's very, it's very just. Yeah, you know what? It's giving me Emily in Paris. Except it's Cambridge.
[24:59]
Host 2
She invented Emily in Paris.
[25:01]
Host 1
Okay.
[25:02]
Host 2
This is. She was the one that came up with that.
[25:03]
Host 1
Gotcha. And then she has British boys and bow ties. I'm assuming they're British boys because. Yeah. And then those like Venice down here in the corner. Yeah, it's very much that Instagram. This is just Girl Abroad.
[25:17]
Host 2
Girl Abroad. Instagram, yeah. Now she set herself apart from the other gals on Instagram because she would write these really detailed and Intimate captions.
[25:27]
Host 1
Okay, she's using that writer credit.
[25:29]
Host 2
Exactly. So this is one. This is a beginning. Because this is like this much long. I'm not going to read.
[25:34]
Host 1
Oh, my God. But.
[25:35]
Host 2
So I'm going to read you just the beginning. Much like ring pops and disposable razors, memories deteriorate with use. According to a study by Northwestern University, every time we access a memory, we tamper with it. Editing the past with our feelings in the present. Or to put it like this, the only way to preserve our most precious memories is to forget them. And then it goes on to talk about her memories at Cambridge, this guy named Josh. Ba Ba, ba.
[26:01]
Host 1
She writes like Sex in the City.
[26:03]
Host 2
Yes. She writes like Carrie Bradshaw.
[26:05]
Host 1
That it's 100 a Carrie Bradshaw opening.
[26:08]
Host 2
Yep.
[26:08]
Host 1
Memories are like ring pops or disposable razors. I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about?
[26:14]
Host 2
So. But people loved it. That was.
[26:17]
Host 1
That is the most surface level garbage I've ever heard.
[26:22]
Host 2
The teen girls loved it.
[26:24]
Host 1
I understand that. No, I understand. I understand that there's a market for this. I can also make fun of it. You're getting mad. I can see you getting mad because you liked it.
[26:31]
Host 2
I didn't like it.
[26:32]
Host 1
You did know you loved it. Memories are like ring pops at the baseline is plastic.
[26:38]
Host 2
So she also bought ads.
[26:42]
Host 1
Okay.
[26:42]
Host 2
And put promo ed all of her posts. And the ads were super cheap back then. And so she targeted almost every post towards users that followed Harry Potter or YA novel fan accounts.
[26:54]
Host 1
She's a genius.
[26:55]
Host 2
And it worked, of course. And by 2015, she had more than 500,000 followers.
[27:00]
Host 1
Okay.
[27:00]
Host 2
Which is a ton.
[27:02]
Host 1
Yeah.
[27:02]
Host 2
Considering she bought the baseline of 40K.
[27:04]
Host 1
Yeah.
[27:05]
Host 2
Everything else she's making is because she's actually just really popular at this point.
[27:08]
Host 1
Well, at this point it makes sense. Right? So if I got an ad and every now and then I will, I'll get an ad for somebody. Because I've seen this, especially on TikTok, where somebody will promote a horrible TikTok and it's like just to get more people to, like, look at their page.
[27:22]
Host 2
Yeah.
[27:22]
Host 1
But then you go to their page. I'm like, you have six followers. Like, you have no natural base whatsoever. So when people saw her and they're like, Harry Potter fan, they went. And she saw that she had 44,000 and like 100 likes. They're like, oh, this is a pretty big page.
[27:37]
Host 2
Yeah.
[27:37]
Host 1
People assume celebrity because you put on their heirs of celebrity.
[27:40]
Host 2
So she quickly fashioned herself as, quote, the gats of Cambridge.
[27:45]
Host 1
I Hate her.
[27:46]
Host 2
She was a party girl and introduced her followers to her new life by writing welcome to Cambridge Instagram. It's time to party like it's Downton Abbey seasons one through four and ain't nothing. Not even World War I or Lady Mary's attitude problem. It's going to rain on our Insta parade. Today begins an exciting new chapter of collegiate adventure Sausage One filled with Harry Potter like castles. Jane Austen like balls. And very mixed references of pop culture. She says that she doubled down on her Americanism and she wrote that she would use very British style images on purpose, obviously. Yeah. And she hosted parties at Manors. She also was known to like break into parties. Like she was. She didn't do any schoolwork is what I'm getting at.
[28:39]
Host 1
Yeah. She's a party crasher.
[28:40]
Host 2
She's a party crasher. She's meeting as many people as she can. The whole thing though, this whole Cambridge storyline she built is what you would call House of Cards. Because she got into Cambridge but she wasn't really there. You know what I mean? She wasn't really in school.
[28:58]
Host 1
Yeah.
[28:59]
Host 2
Also she had forged her school transcripts.
[29:04]
Host 1
What?
[29:05]
Host 2
To get into Cambridge.
[29:06]
Host 1
Cuz I was still stuck on how good she is at SEO.
[29:08]
Host 2
Yeah.
[29:09]
Host 1
That was the thing is her search engine optimization to target as many people as possible with that awful fucking piece of copy you just read me.
[29:17]
Host 2
Yeah.
[29:17]
Host 1
Was so crazy by saying like, just like Downton Abbey seasons one through three. I'm like. Because. Right. I think they're probably right around when Downton Season 4 was going in.
[29:26]
Host 2
Yeah.
[29:26]
Host 1
All that different stuff. And then you're just like. By the way, she forged her transit. Like girl.
[29:31]
Host 2
Yep.
[29:32]
Host 1
Because today. Today she would just be a social media marketing major and she'd be killing it.
[29:37]
Host 2
Crushing it.
[29:38]
Host 1
Oh my God.
[29:40]
Host 2
So she forged her school transcript much like Kanye.
[29:42]
Host 1
She was just two years too early.
[29:44]
Host 2
Oh, no, not like Kanye. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Changing. She changed a D plus in ancient Greek to an A minus. She. This is a quote from her book. That class was at the same time Andy and I had a free period during which he liked to fuck me on his top bunk.
[30:01]
Host 1
What?
[30:01]
Host 2
I began photoshopping my Exeter transcript. It was difficult with the complex visual watermark. But I'm an art historian and an artist.
[30:11]
Host 1
Wait, she admitted it.
[30:13]
Host 2
Yeah.
[30:15]
Host 1
What this feels like again. I already. So, okay, again. We're now here in 2024 looking back on. But the point is this like 2015.
[30:25]
Host 2
2015. Yeah.
[30:26]
Host 1
Looking back nine years and now because of people like Carolyn Calloway, like, you can't get away with it this easily.
[30:32]
Host 2
Yeah.
[30:33]
Host 1
But, like, there was a time where you're like, oh, fuck. Anytime you look back a decade, you're like, it was so much easier.
[30:37]
Host 2
It was so much easier back then.
[30:38]
Host 1
She was like, it had a complex watermark. Oh, you bitch. But also, like, that's the other thing too. Like, with transcript being sent, I feel like it's office to office.
[30:48]
Host 2
Yeah.
[30:48]
Host 1
Like, it shouldn't have come from. Like, where's it coming from? Harvard? Gmail?
[30:53]
Host 2
Yep. Whoops. Like what whoops? Caroling told buzzfeed in an article they wrote with her quote, I think in ways it's unfair that I'm categorized as a rich girl, but I also have a lot of compassion for why people see me that way, because our culture really fetishizes that. I, of all people, really cashed in on that fetishation. So I don't begrudge anyone for not taking the time to look into my story more.
[31:19]
Host 1
Wait, so she claiming she's not rich?
[31:21]
Host 2
No, she is.
[31:22]
Host 1
Oh, okay.
[31:22]
Host 2
She just feels that, like, you like that she's rich. And she acknowledges that, and she's playing into it and she capitalized on it.
[31:30]
Host 1
Okay. She's parasailing it.
[31:31]
Host 2
Yeah, she's parasulting it.
[31:32]
Host 1
Okay, that's fine.
[31:33]
Host 2
So here's another scam. Yeah, right. So that's happening. Cambridge, blah, blah.
[31:37]
Host 1
Yeah, but she's scamming British people, so it doesn't count.
[31:40]
Host 2
Well, she's scamming American girls.
[31:42]
Host 1
She's gaming American girls, but at the same exact time, she's forging documents in. In England, so that doesn't count.
[31:50]
Host 2
Carolyn. In 2015, Caroline Calloway signed a book deal with Flat Iron books.
[31:54]
Host 1
Okay.
[31:55]
Host 2
For $375,000.
[31:58]
Host 1
Wow.
[31:59]
Host 2
So her. Her idea worked.
[32:00]
Host 1
Yeah, it did.
[32:01]
Host 2
She proved that if she could get a big enough social media following, she could get a book deal.
[32:06]
Host 1
Yep.
[32:06]
Host 2
And she did.
[32:06]
Host 1
And she got a big deal.
[32:08]
Host 2
And the book was supposed to be titled. And then we were like. And then we were like, okay, because that's how girls talk. And then we were like, yeah, I hate it.
[32:18]
Host 1
I hate it.
[32:19]
Host 2
The first title was actually proposed by her friend Natalie beach, and that was going to be called Schoolgirl, but it never happened because people felt it was, like, sexualizing children.
[32:30]
Host 1
Yeah.
[32:31]
Host 2
So we were like. And then we were like. Was what it was supposed to be said.
[32:34]
Host 1
I like how you keep saying supposed to be so excited.
[32:39]
Host 2
This book never came to fruition because while this happening, Calloway was reportedly descending into a Deep Adderall addiction.
[32:49]
Host 1
Oh, they were going to say madness. No, well, descending into like, descending into a deep Adderall is just like a different. But like, whenever you hear the word descending in a person, they're either descending into a cave network or madness.
[33:05]
Host 2
So the whole thing is she's also on her Instagram promoting the hell out of this book that she's never gonna write. I. You guys, it's gonna be the. I'm gonna do this and this and like every other post, she's talking about this big book deal she got. She's so excited. All of her followers are chomping at the bit to buy this book. They want to know every one of Karen Kellogg's secrets.
[33:22]
Host 1
Yeah, she's doing good promo and so much good rushing barbitur.
[33:25]
Host 2
Just having the time of her Life. Yeah. In 2017, she pulls out of the book deal. And it was very contentious. It was all over media. Everyone buzzfeed and all them were reporting on this book deal falling through. And she owed flatiron books the 30. 30% of the advance she'd been given. So she owed them $100,000.
[33:46]
Host 1
Okay.
[33:48]
Host 2
To try to salvage some funds, she put the book proposal on Etsy and signed the pages and sold it.
[33:56]
Host 1
Okay.
[33:59]
Host 2
Then. Okay, so this book deals happening, this Adderall addiction's happening. Yeah, it's all falling apart. She owes them money. All the fans are upset because all the fans wanted to buy the book.
[34:09]
Host 1
Is she still in England?
[34:10]
Host 2
No, she's back in New York. Okay. Now this all happens and then in 2018. So we've had a few years, there's a little calm down. She's still posting. People are still following her, but they're like, she's kind of a mess.
[34:23]
Host 1
Yeah, yeah.
[34:23]
Host 2
She's kind of a.
[34:24]
Host 1
You know, the story's turned.
[34:26]
Host 2
The story's turn.
[34:27]
Host 1
Yeah.
[34:27]
Host 2
She's not just this young girl in college in Cambridge. She's like this girl that lives in United States and is like just a little weird and artistic and writes these crazy captions. Right. So in 2018, she decides that she is going to throw workshops in person. Workshops where you could meet with her and do crafts. Crafts and eat salad.
[34:56]
Host 1
What?
[34:56]
Host 2
Here we go. I'm pull this CBS outline.
[34:58]
Host 1
Okay.
[34:59]
Host 2
The saga saga began in December of 2018 when Callaway first debuted the idea of her workshops on her Instagram stories. She said she wanted to share her knowledge about writing, getting over heartbreak and building a personal brand and general wellness. The idea quickly snowballed. She collected money for tickets from her fans through an event planning website, Eventbrite, and quickly sold out many of the US tour dates. @ that point, Callaway had not booked event spaces, hired photographers, put together care packages, or ordered any of the required supplies. Attendees were meant to get a four hour seminar comprised of a session for attendees to meet for coffee and tea with oat milk without Calloway's presence, a homemade salad for lunch, lectures by Calloway, orchid crowns, handwritten letters, and care packages filled with things like notebooks, crystals and mason jar gardens. Having almost no event planning knowledge, Calloway made error after error. She ordered 1,200 mason jars to be filled with mini gardens for attendees to her West Village apartment, quickly overwhelming the space. She promised homemade salads, but realized cooking for 50 people the night before an event was an impossible task. She tried to hire freelance photographers and videographers for free, only offering to pay them after receiving backlash. She told her followers they wouldn't be receiving the handwritten letters she'd promised because they were taking too long to write, and she ditched the idea of orchid crowns, bringing a few clip in flowers instead. Calloway admitted she felt overwhelmed. She canceled many dates and also toyed with the idea of moving every workshop to New York City. After online backlash spurred from a thread from a news reporter, Calloway canceled the tour altogether. She documented the entire process process on Instagram stories quote Someday I'm going to earn enough money so I can travel to you with my team, my care packages and my gifts and create the night of fucking quality event I want to create, Calloway wrote on her Instagram stories. She said she would refund everyone who had purchased the ticket. However the damage was done, it didn't matter. Caroline Calloway, now frequently referred to as a grifter and a scammer, usually mentioned in the same breath as Anna Delvey, Elizabeth holmes and Billy McFarland. This pisses her off. As she would tell Buzzfeed later, she never stole money from anyone and those people are going to jail.
[37:23]
Host 1
I I will say it's okay to cancel events. Yeah now. But no, I what I will say is that it's incredible to me. Like making a promise before of an event before booking it before booking the venue is crazy. Yeah, pre selling tickets on a date or any of that. Like it always makes me so wary when I see people do this. And also like the things like she could have just booked a comedy club to be like I'm going to be on stage for an hour and we're going to do Something that isn't stand up. But I'm going to use that venue. Yeah, done. We're going to do this or like a black box theater or I'm going to. Or a workshop space. Like you could find these spaces. You don't have to feed people. You don't have to give them a handmade salad. Is crazy. Once you got to orchid crown, I'm like, girl, what movie had just come out? Yeah. Was Midsommar. Was it Midsommar? And you decided that you're like, oh, everyone needs an orchid crown.
[38:30]
Host 2
I can say. Because I saw some of these posts when they came out. I remember when this happened.
[38:35]
Host 1
Do you still follow her or were you following her at the time or you just saw her on like a snark subreddit?
[38:39]
Host 2
No, I think in 2018, I. I just know that I saw the stories coming out about this.
[38:45]
Host 1
Okay.
[38:46]
Host 2
Because she was posting on her stories. But it was like very. She's very impulsive. We'll get. We'll see as this happens plays out. She's super impulsive. And so she just says like she made a story and she's like, I want to do a workshop. And then the next day she's like, I made an eventbrite website. Let's buy tickets. I'm gonna figure it out. I'm gonna make orchid crowns. Like, and it's like, it feels like a manic.
[39:06]
Host 1
It feels like a manic episode.
[39:08]
Host 2
Maybe still an Adderall.
[39:09]
Host 1
Yeah.
[39:09]
Host 2
And like, just like. And I'm gonna do this. And so she just flies by the seat of her pants with everything. And so she was building out and selling these workshops as it was happening. But she documented it live.
[39:21]
Host 1
Yeah.
[39:22]
Host 2
Here's me on a speakerphone with a videographer. Here's me ordering 1200 Mason jars and they all get delivered. And people. She's showing people her apartment is full of mason jars.
[39:31]
Host 1
Yeah.
[39:31]
Host 2
And she has nothing to do with them. Like it was in. It was. I don't say insane, but it was insane. Incredible to witness because it was so chaotic.
[39:40]
Host 1
Yeah.
[39:41]
Host 2
And the whole time I remember looking at these stories when they were live and being like, this is gonna crash and burn. Because I. I remember in my brain I couldn't find a picture of it. No. I couldn't find a screenshot of the story. But I remember, I remember Instagram story of her with a big metal bowl or wooden bowl making a salad and being like, I'm making a salad for tomorrow's event. And it was like 150 person event and she's in her apartment in New York making a salad in her little tiny kitchen.
[40:13]
Host 1
Yeah.
[40:14]
Host 2
That she is then gonna take on a train because I think she was going to like, Philadelphia or something. Like, I was like, yo, this is so chaotic.
[40:20]
Host 1
Yeah.
[40:21]
Host 2
And it was. You couldn't look away from it because it was just like, this is not gonna end well.
[40:25]
Host 1
Yeah, I. It's. It's just like. Also then lying and saying you have a team while doing all this is crazy. But I just. I just. It drives me insane because, like, I. One of the worst shows I ever did.
[40:38]
Host 2
Yeah.
[40:38]
Host 1
Was shortly after, like, that, my TikTok started blowing up. And this guy. I was like, reaching out to people. I'm like, hey, you know, I don't know what to do now. The TikTok's blowing up. I think I should get back into stand up. And I got booked on a 4:20 show and this guy was like, yeah, we're doing this show. It's 4:20. It's in a bar that's in the basement of an old church. Like, it's. It's no longer a church, it's now like a bar and there's a basement bar, but it's a 420 show. It's in Philly and we're giving away weed. And I was like, what? I don't care. I just need the stage time. Like, I don't care what you're doing on the show. I'm just going to go do it. And I got there and no part of the show made sense. None. Like, they would have somebody go up and do stand up and then they'd play a game and then he'd give away weed. And then half the audience, they weren't allowed to smoke weed in the bar. So half the audience would then get up and leave and go outside and get high for 25 minutes. And then they'd come back visibly stoned and it's like, well, now, then they'd be like, okay, now you go up and tell them jokes. And I'm like, about what? Like how. Yeah, like you had them just play like sex dice on stage in front of each other and then they went outside and got high. And now I'm supposed to talk about my dog? Like, what the fuck are we talking about here? And like that moment I was like, okay, I'm never doing shows like this again. Because I used to do shows like that, like all the time. Which is like, whatever, we'll do it. I'll fucking get on stage. And it's just so crazy that she has like this presence and she has this following and all this different stuff and is just having what to me reads as a very clearly manic episode. And it's just like. And then we're going to get an orchid crown and people are just like, fuck it, I'm buying. Yeah, I'm buying in. But like, but it's also one of those ones where like the number one thing that people, when you're putting on an event, what they want to see is the person they want to see.
[42:22]
Host 2
Yeah.
[42:22]
Host 1
And then anything else is a nice little bonus.
[42:25]
Host 2
Yeah.
[42:25]
Host 1
What they would want to see. If I was a Carolyn Calloway fan, I've been following her since the Harry Potter days, I would have just wanted to see her in person to be like, oh, she's real. And I got a picture with her. That's it.
[42:36]
Host 2
Yeah.
[42:36]
Host 1
That's why I do a photo line. It's just so crazy. It's just so crazy. To me, as a, as a professional performer and now as a social media personality, this upsets me greatly.
[42:47]
Host 2
So there's also this reporter who. Or I want a journalist, I'll say journalist named Kaylee Donaldson.
[42:56]
Host 1
Okay.
[42:56]
Host 2
Who was posting on Twitter and Instagram while this was happening because she's, she made this one. It says that, that Instagram follower, that Instagram influencer I occasionally check in on because she's the worst, is now charging 165 for a four hour seminar on how to be yourself.
[43:16]
Host 1
And she posts 165.
[43:19]
Host 2
And it says it's a scam.
[43:21]
Host 1
$165.
[43:24]
Host 2
Right. And so Kaylee, this Kaylee Donaldson journalist was live tweeting and posting Instagram the whole time that this is happening. Right. Kind of calling out that like, hey, this is a scam.
[43:36]
Host 1
That is. Hold on. If she had 150 people at one of her things, that is $24,750.
[43:43]
Host 2
She refunded it.
[43:44]
Host 1
No, I know. I'm saying though is like, that's what she's. She's expecting to make 20, almost $25,000 gross.
[43:52]
Host 2
Yeah.
[43:53]
Host 1
Now that's before, but also just gross. But like that's all before expenses.
[43:58]
Host 2
Yeah. So that tweet goes viral.
[44:03]
Host 1
Yeah.
[44:03]
Host 2
Right. And this snowballed because all of this was happening. Like all of her workshop stuff is happening at the same time that the Fyre Fest documentaries came out.
[44:16]
Host 1
Oh.
[44:19]
Host 2
So people were like, this is an event scam. Right. So like she had, she had just really bad timing. And this devastated Calloway's image. Right. Yeah.
[44:31]
Host 1
Here's the thing. I don't think I. Honestly from the little bit of information you gave me.
[44:35]
Host 2
Yeah.
[44:35]
Host 1
I really don't think it was a scam. I think she's just.
[44:39]
Host 2
I also don't think she was a scam. I think that she was having in a mental health crisis situation and didn't understand the. The heavy lift that it is.
[44:48]
Host 1
Yeah.
[44:49]
Host 2
She. Because she doesn't know what logistics.
[44:51]
Host 1
The fact that she didn't have a venue booked from the get go.
[44:54]
Host 2
Yeah.
[44:55]
Host 1
And is because like that's the downside of it. If you. Okay, I have a venue. How big is the venue? The venue seats 100 people. Cool. Then you can have anywhere from 1 to 100 people at that event.
[45:05]
Host 2
Yeah.
[45:06]
Host 1
Oh, I have. I've sold tickets. How many tickets you saw? I've sold 150. Okay, well then you need to at least find a venue that can fit capacity of 200.
[45:13]
Host 2
Yeah.
[45:14]
Host 1
But people don't understand that. And like that's harder. It's harder to find a 200 seat place than it is to find 100. And like trying to fit this and different, different cities and all this different stuff. It's just wild to me. That's why I don't actually believe it's a scam. I think she's just. What you said.
[45:28]
Host 2
Yeah. So after this burned her image. Right. Two of Calloway's. Okay. Carolyn Kelly has a lot of dedicated fan accounts. Just like maybe Muppets have fan accounts. There are Caroline Calloway fan accounts and two of her biggest fan accounts changed their handle handles and stated they no longer wanted to affiliate themselves with a brand we no longer trust or believe in.
[45:55]
Host 1
Wow.
[45:56]
Host 2
So she lost her fan accounts. Her two biggest ones.
[46:00]
Host 1
Okay. It's so again the I. Yeah. The Internet's such a crazy place.
[46:07]
Host 2
Yeah.
[46:07]
Host 1
Like the fact that you can be a fan account of some random person, like that's just wild. I mean, do I imperill mania fan accounts?
[46:18]
Host 2
I don't know. Don't ask. Don't even bring that.
[46:21]
Host 1
I never even thought to look. I know there's people who pose as me on Facebook.
[46:25]
Host 2
So that journalist, Kaylee Donaldson, I told you she worked for. I forgot who she worked for. But she basically made this idea and she said the empty Mason jar of the influencer economy. So she wrote this whole article, or I think it was an article or a tweet, I don't even remember anymore. But basically she made a post. Kaylee made a post basically comparing the influencer economy to the empty Mason jars in Carolyn Calloway's apartment.
[46:59]
Host 1
Okay.
[46:59]
Host 2
Right. And I was like, honestly, fair.
[47:01]
Host 1
It's a good metaphor.
[47:02]
Host 2
Yeah. But Carolyn Calloway, after reading this, began selling T shirts that read, Stop hate following me, Kaylee.
[47:13]
Host 1
Okay. Get it, get them. Drop ship shirts.
[47:18]
Host 2
Oh, my God.
[47:19]
Host 1
Where were the shirts on? Were they on Teespring?
[47:21]
Host 2
They probably on Teespring. Stop hate following me, Kaylee. That is so agony. Also need to note that Kaylee's name is spelled K, A, Y, L, E, I, G, H. So that. That's just so funny.
[47:34]
Host 1
Yeah.
[47:34]
Host 2
There's something about Kaylee spelled that way that Stop hate following me, Kaylee.
[47:38]
Host 1
Yeah.
[47:38]
Host 2
I'd wear that shirt.
[47:40]
Host 1
Honestly. Yeah, that is such a. That's transcendent. It's.
[47:47]
Host 2
Yeah.
[47:47]
Host 1
It actually leaves the Carolyn Calloway situation and just becomes a. For the girls.
[47:52]
Host 2
For the gals.
[47:52]
Host 1
It's just for the gals. At that point, everyone has a Kaylee. That's hate following them.
[47:56]
Host 2
Yeah, exactly.
[47:57]
Host 1
Welcome to the Internet. Here's your Kelly.
[47:59]
Host 2
Everyone gets a. Kaylee Calloway tried to embrace the scammer title. Right. So now she's just going to take the scammer title. She hosted a New York workshop that she called the Scam. Oh, and she invited attendees to, quote, come make friends. Hang out with me. Work on your art. Laugh about art. Eat salad on the floor. Drink oat milk. Take photos with flowers in her hair. Consider pain. Discuss self, love and be scammed.
[48:29]
Host 1
Consider pain. Being dropped in near the end is killing me. I also. What's with her and oat milk?
[48:37]
Host 2
I don't know. I think she wrote oat milk in the first one, so she's just referencing it. I know she's self referential at all times.
[48:43]
Host 1
I could tell that. But it's just very funny. I'm surprised she didn't write down since Abby. Watch down Abby, Seasons one through three, consider pain. But Consider pain. But it's just very. Because, honestly, again, you said this is like 2018, right? Yeah, the. The whole oat milk was on its way up then too. It was like a trending thing. Yeah, that's just very funny. It's just, oh, I'm starting to like, like her now. You've taken me from, like. At first I was like, cringe, whatever. Not for me. And then I'm like, oh, she sounds like a bad person. And now I'm like, stop hating me. Consider pain.
[49:19]
Host 2
I'm like, be scammed. Yeah.
[49:22]
Host 1
You know what this feels like? It feels like that moment. Okay. Do you Remember how everyone hated Courtney Love?
[49:28]
Host 2
I remember when all of you guys hated Courtney.
[49:31]
Host 1
Sure. And then Kurt Cobain died and then she released that album, Hole. Yep, yep. Hole had that album. And then there was a bit there where, like, people liked Courtney Love. Yeah, I'm in that middle part there. I feel like. I feel like she found Kurt's notebook.
[49:43]
Host 2
And she said, I think I told this in this podcast before. I have one of Courtney Love's bras. I think it's in the attic.
[49:48]
Host 1
What?
[49:49]
Host 2
Yeah. One of my friends in high school, her sister moved LA to like, be famous or whatever, but she ended up being a personal assistant for a few years. And she was Courtney Love's personal assistant. And she was doing, like a closet clean out for Courtney. And she mailed her sister back home some of Courtney's bras because she knew that, like, me and her sister and our other friend were all, like, big fans.
[50:12]
Host 1
Yeah.
[50:12]
Host 2
And so we all each got, like, a Courtney Love bra. So I have one.
[50:18]
Host 1
Okay, we're gonna take a break.
[50:20]
Host 2
That feels like.
[50:21]
Host 1
That feels like I need a break.
[50:23]
Host 2
You need a break.
[50:23]
Host 1
I need a break now from this reality. So we'll be right back with more about Carolyn Calloway AT T Mobile.
[50:31]
T-Mobile Representative
We'll give you four free 5G phones and four lines for only $25 per line per month with eligible trade ins. And no, it's not a contest. It's every day for a limited time. Everyone's a winner on America's largest 5G network.
[50:43]
Minimum of 4 lines for $25 per line per month with autopay discount using debit or bank account. $5 more per line without autopay. Up to $830 off each phone via 24 monthly bill credits plus taxes, fees and $10 device connection charge for well qualified customers. Contact us before canceling entire account to continue bill credits or credit stop and balance on required finance agreement to bill credits. And if you pay off devices early, CT mobile.com.
[51:02]
Host 1
Time to man up and grow some hair. Start seeing your hair grow back in as little as three to six months with hims. HIMS gets you access to a huge range of hair loss treatments, all without having to leave your house with clinically proven ingredients. Get ready to have a head of hair you love. You don't have to break the bank to have amazing hair with hims. You don't need insurance and one low price covers everything from treatments to ongoing care. Start your free online Visit today@hims.com tabs that's H I M S.com tabs for your personalized hair loss treatment options. Hims.com tabs results vary based on studies of topical and oral minoxidil and finasteride. Prescription products require an online consultation with a healthcare provider who will determine if a prescription is appropriate. Restrictions apply. See website and full details and important safety information.
[52:04]
Host 2
All right, we're back.
[52:05]
Host 1
I'm gonna say real quick, though, I am disturbed enough that somebody knew you well enough to think you would want a stranger's underwear.
[52:12]
Host 2
Yeah.
[52:13]
Host 1
I'm just. I'm gonna throw that. Also, while I'm not a Courtney Love fan.
[52:17]
Host 2
Yeah.
[52:17]
Host 1
It has to be insane to be at the level where you're just like, yeah, I hired this person and they're helping me. And then the person's like, I'm gonna send stuff to people who want their underwear. And you trust. You have to intrinsically trust this person, or else you're gonna seem insane.
[52:31]
Host 2
Yeah.
[52:31]
Host 1
And this is how we get tragic stories.
[52:34]
Host 2
Okay, well, I'm just a fun antidote from, like, the early 2000s.
[52:38]
Host 1
Yeah.
[52:40]
Host 2
Was it fun for Courtney Love? No, because she came out against Harvey Weinstein and she got blacklisted forever.
[52:45]
Host 1
Yeah.
[52:46]
Host 2
And that's why people hate her, is because he created negative content around her on purpose. Because she called out the fact that he is who he is and he does what he does.
[52:53]
Host 1
No, no, I understand that. I really understand that part. I do understand that part.
[52:57]
Host 2
Yeah.
[52:57]
Host 1
But also, I've just never been a fan.
[52:59]
Host 2
So. 2019.
[53:00]
Host 1
Okay.
[53:00]
Host 2
We're one year after the workshops.
[53:02]
Host 1
Okay.
[53:03]
Host 2
Okay. The Cut. You know what the Cut is?
[53:06]
Host 1
I feel like I remember the name.
[53:07]
Host 2
It's. It was like an Internet journal, journalistic website.
[53:11]
Host 1
Okay. It was a website.
[53:12]
Host 2
It was a website.
[53:14]
Host 1
Oh, this is back. Back when you could have, like, a quote unquote news site that was basically just a blog that could then get sold off to a major paper. Yeah. So like, the ringer.
[53:23]
Host 2
Is it the feminista?
[53:24]
Host 1
Yeah, yeah, a lot of those. Because a lot of them end up going to places like Gawker or other places, and they started to, like, put them all together.
[53:31]
Host 2
So the Cut was one for the gals.
[53:33]
Host 1
I remember the Cut now.
[53:34]
Host 2
The she's and the they's and the gals. Right. And it was very popular. Okay. It must be said that it was very popular. The Cut was very popular.
[53:43]
Host 1
Yeah, I remember it.
[53:45]
Host 2
In 2019, the Cut published a long and infamous now infamous essay by Natalie Beach. Do you know who Natalie beach is?
[53:53]
Host 1
I do not know who Natalie beach is.
[53:55]
Host 2
Natalie beach wrote this article and it was titled I was Carolyn Calloway. Seven years after I met the infamous Instagram star, I am ready to tell my side of the story.
[54:06]
Host 1
I was Caroline Calloway.
[54:07]
Host 2
I was Caroline Calloway. Okay, so in it Natalie gets right to the point. This is the first paragraph. When I was a sophomore in college, I took a creative non fiction workshop and met a girl who was everything I wasn't. The point of the class was to learn to write your own story. But from the moment we met, I focused instead on helping her tell her own. First in notes after workshop, then later editing her Instagram captions and co writing a book proposal she sold for hundreds of thousands of dollars. It seems obvious now the way the story would end, but when I first met Carolyn Calloway, all I saw was the beginning of something extraordinary.
[54:46]
Host 1
So she was her ghostwriter.
[54:47]
Host 2
She was her ghostwriter and she gets into it in this story, in this article she wrote. But they were like bff.
[54:56]
Host 1
Okay.
[54:57]
Host 2
In college. Okay. But it was a little one sided, as sometimes happens.
[55:02]
Host 1
Yeah.
[55:03]
Host 2
Quote Carolyn first took an interest in me after I wrote an essay about growing up in New Haven. Yale was an obsession of hers. She'd been rejected and never got over it. The fact that I was a Yale townie won me an invitation to her West Village apartment. A studio painted Tiffany's turquoise blue and filled with fresh orchids and hardcovers. This is my Yale box, she told me, sitting on her white loveseat and showing me a shoebox of Handsome Dan and by necky library memorabilia. It was the same day we split a joint that Carolyn informed me was she told me I was beautiful, which no, no one outside my family had ever said.
[55:43]
Host 1
Oh.
[55:45]
Host 2
So this article goes on, on and on. I can't, I don't have enough time to read the whole thing. If you want to read it. It's an incredible read. Y'all just put in Natalie Beach, Carolyn Calloway, the cut. But so she goes into this whole article and she talks about how during her whole college life, even when Carolyn leaves NYU because they go to NYU together, when Carolyn leaves to go to Cambridge, she, she is still helping her and like Natalie is clearly in a one sided friendship and Carolyn is just taking advantage the whole time.
[56:19]
Host 1
Yeah.
[56:20]
Host 2
And basically doesn't even pretend like she doesn't even know she exists. And she puts Natalie in dangerous situations over and over again. She does that thing where like if they go out drinking with like guys that she doesn't know, Natalie doesn't know Ken will disappear and leave her with these people.
[56:35]
Host 1
Yeah.
[56:35]
Host 2
And then won't answer her phone till the next day. And so, like, just puts her at risk and danger over and over again. And also, like, she is writing the captions and she. So this girl Natalie wrote all those crazy captions?
[56:49]
Host 1
Yeah, yeah.
[56:49]
Host 2
She's doing the adventure.
[56:51]
Host 1
She's doing the SEO. She's the one who invented. Hashtag adventure Graham.
[56:54]
Host 2
Yeah, Adventure Graham. She's the one that did it. So she, like, goes into all this and basically this.
[57:02]
Host 1
She got Frankenstein monstered.
[57:03]
Host 2
Yep. She got Frankenstein monstered.
[57:05]
Host 1
Yeah. Because her monster has, like, gone crazy on her.
[57:08]
Host 2
Yeah.
[57:09]
Host 1
That's so wild.
[57:11]
Host 2
Further in the article, she writes they're at a tavern. And I told her that her fantasy of going out with our professor was dangerous and predictable. It's like a movie, I said between lettuce wraps. This is act one. Soon he'll invite you over to his bachelor pad. You and five. In five months, you'll read all about it in the New Yorker. Go on, she said. What happens to me next? For the next two hours, I ad libbed the movie of her life. She bought me a pesto, ministrone soup and pork belly. You're a genius, she said, and I had no reason to question her. She was building a second version of herself in front of me. And how could I compete with that? That December, for her 21st birthday, I gave Carolyn a gift. Three dinner plates stamped with the Yale crest that my mom had found outside a campus building. I took a Sharpie and wrote it on their backs. When Carolyn unwrapped the gift, she broke into tears. Real tears. I paused. Was this really that excellent a gift? Had she never received something stupid and personal before? Which is why I was surprised that later that winter, she nonchalantly informed me that the Yale plates had been stolen out of her apartment. Quote. What do you mean they were stolen? I remember asking. Quote. They're worthless and you live in an apartment filled with Apple products and antique furniture. She told me it was just plates. And she insisted that her Exeter ring had also been stolen, too. It just didn't make sense. Who would steal a bunch of used plates scrawled with permanent marker? It was the first time I felt sure she was lying to me. But I didn't call her out on it. What was I going to do? Torch everything we had over a gag gift? And if she was lying about the stolen plates, then maybe she was lying about the extent of our friendship. Or me being a beautiful genius. Even a few weeks later, when I saw her once again, Wearing her Exeter ring. I didn't say anything.
[58:53]
Host 1
Oh, right. So she starts. She's slowly putting together that Carolyn's a pathological liar.
[58:59]
Host 2
Yes.
[58:59]
Host 1
Okay.
[59:00]
Host 2
And okay, so here, after this article comes out. Right.
[59:03]
Host 1
Real quick. Hold on, just pause.
[59:04]
Host 2
Okay.
[59:05]
Host 1
Because I do want to just because we're in the middle of the fact that there's a ghostwriter and that that ghostwriter has never been acknowledged.
[59:11]
Host 2
Yeah.
[59:12]
Host 1
We had a researcher for this episode. Right.
[59:14]
Host 2
Yeah.
[59:15]
Host 1
Okay. And that researcher was sad beige. Yes. And who we are is a great person.
[59:20]
Host 2
Yeah.
[59:21]
Host 1
And who I just want to be very clear.
[59:23]
Host 2
Yeah.
[59:24]
Host 1
Is just like. Because, I mean, it's just one of those weird things where you see this a lot in now. Well, not. You see this. I see this a lot now that I've been moving into, like, these content creator influencer spaces. So, like, when I went to vidcon, I ended up talking to more of the producers and, like, the people who work behind the scenes, because they're literally like, I don't want to be on camera.
[59:45]
Host 2
Yeah.
[59:46]
Host 1
I don't want to be a person who is actually, like, known. I want to be able to go to the grocery store, all those different things. And so, like, there is a place for that. But you just acknowledge that that person exists is enough. Like, I think with us and what we do where, like, I'm making content, like, I've made it clear to a lot of people, and I hope that it's been clear to the people who at least gobble up, like, at least 50% of our content is that it's our content.
[60:12]
Host 2
Yeah.
[60:13]
Host 1
Is that, like, there is very few things that get posted where I don't run it past you first.
[60:17]
Host 2
Yeah. And those ones that make it through, they're only when I'm at the grocery store.
[60:21]
Host 1
They're only when you're not home.
[60:22]
Host 2
Yeah. I come home. When I go, what did you do?
[60:24]
Host 1
What did you do? And then you look, and usually it's like within like a half hour, you're like, what did. I saw you fucking posted. But there is. But, like, you know, you're. You do. We do videos and you're off camera.
[60:34]
Host 2
Yeah.
[60:35]
Host 1
The fact that she has this person in her life for seven fucking years, she's lying to her constantly.
[60:40]
Host 2
Yeah.
[60:41]
Host 1
And then on top of that, like, denying her existence and, like, just hiding it. It's that lie of omission. That's so wild. Yeah, that's fucking. But then also, like, if this girl is the one writing everything, how come the book didn't get done?
[60:56]
Host 2
Okay. She gets in that.
[60:57]
Host 1
In the article, does she?
[60:58]
Host 2
Yeah, but I'm not gonna read the whole thing. But real quick, I just have to tell you something. So when this article came out, this article was a hit.
[61:05]
Host 1
Yeah.
[61:06]
Host 2
This article went viral for the time.
[61:07]
Host 1
Yeah.
[61:08]
Host 2
Not because of. Just because Carolyn Calloway. People came into it for Carolyn Calloway. But when you read this article, I would say 80% of young women have experienced this. Where you have this one friend who's like the manic pixie dream girl.
[61:25]
Host 1
Yeah.
[61:26]
Host 2
She has everything at her fingertips. She has money, access, and she. And you want to be her friend.
[61:33]
Host 1
Yeah.
[61:33]
Host 2
And you want to be a part of her circle. And she barely acknowledges your existence unless she needs you.
[61:39]
Host 1
Yeah.
[61:39]
Host 2
And, like, the. The inherent abusive nature of that relationship, but still wanting it. And, like, the way this woman wrote it, almost every woman that read it was like, I remember being this girl. I remember being this young woman. I had a friend like Carolyn. I. I felt this experience. So, like, this whole article went viral because it was just so relatable of.
[61:59]
Host 1
People who read about articles.
[62:00]
Host 2
Yes.
[62:01]
Host 1
That's the other thing, too, is like, then we did. Yeah. Same, though. But also, like, it's a very. You're saying it's a very long article.
[62:06]
Host 2
Yeah.
[62:07]
Host 1
There's a certain group of people who will read a very long article.
[62:09]
Host 2
Yeah.
[62:10]
Host 1
Who, like, it's. This is a 80 of them.
[62:14]
Host 2
Yeah.
[62:14]
Host 1
It's weird because it's like, slivers within slivers within slivers. But it's so. Yeah. That's so crazy because I'm picturing, like, when you said the line of, she's the first person to ever say I was beautiful.
[62:25]
Host 2
Yeah.
[62:25]
Host 1
I was like, yo, but she's beautiful. I know. But it's also just outside of my family. That is such a wild thing. And, like, thinking about that, because I was. I think about that sometimes. Like when you. When I was. When we were first dating, you're like, yeah. You're like, really? You're, like, really handsome. And I'm like, no. I just denied it.
[62:46]
Host 2
Shut up.
[62:47]
Host 1
I was like, no, that's a lie.
[62:48]
Host 2
Stop lying.
[62:49]
Host 1
I expect that. I expect to hear that from my mom. Not from you. Not from a pretty.
[62:52]
Host 2
She doesn't say that anymore now. She just says, baby's handsome.
[62:55]
Host 1
Yeah. She said, give me the baby. She walks in, door goes, give me my grandson.
[62:58]
Host 2
Don't even live here anymore.
[62:59]
Host 1
No.
[63:01]
Host 2
So here's what happened, though. This article goes viral. Like I was saying.
[63:03]
Host 1
Yeah.
[63:04]
Host 2
The Yale plates became a meme. It became A whole meme. I found an Eater article. You know, eater people still look at that. I don't know.
[63:13]
Host 1
I don't know what that is.
[63:14]
Host 2
Eater was Buzzfeed for food.
[63:17]
Host 1
Okay.
[63:20]
Host 2
So this article is from September 13, 2019. It's titled it. Here's a post about Carolyn Calloway's Yale plates.
[63:28]
Host 1
Okay.
[63:29]
Host 2
Okay. And so the, the thing that went. Got memeified was the plates got it and people were just like, what the fuck? Why did she say they got stolen? Everybody on the Internet was talking about the plates along with all the other stuff that was happening, but the plates really did got the meme. Okay, you just need to know that the plates got the meme.
[63:53]
Host 1
Yeah.
[63:53]
Host 2
So further in the article, she talks about how they went to Italy together and she missed this flight and then she didn't have any money because Carolyn, of course always assumed that everybody has much money as she did. So when Natalie couldn't afford to take the next flight, she was stranded and, and Natalie had to go home because she couldn't go to Milan. She didn't have enough money to get the rest of the way. It was like so weird. But again, like Carolyn didn't think outside of her own means and then was like, yeah, okay, just go home.
[64:23]
Host 1
Yeah, it's not, it doesn't sound like Carolyn Calloway has this thing called empathy.
[64:26]
Host 2
Yeah, that's a thing. Yeah. So she, Carolyn ends up paying for her to get back home. She doesn't have any money to go back home, but she knows she can't afford to go to Italy. So Carolyn uses her parents credit card and pays for her to get back to America. In order to repay her, beach offers to spend the summer editing Carolyn's Instagram post and helping write the book more. There is a point where they have a verbal agreement that beach is going to help write the book and she will get 35% of the money.
[64:58]
Host 1
Okay.
[64:59]
Host 2
Right. But she, Carolyn keeps blowing through the proposal deadline. Right. They keep, she keeps writing. Carolyn hates it all. Carolyn's giving her post it notes with scribbles on it being like, I want it to be about this. I needed to be about fairies. You need to add in this context. So like Natalie's trying to write this thing, but it's, it's not, she's not able to put together the post it notes in a. Right. A good way to make a book. And also she is at Kylan's apartment with her every once in a while doing this. And she is, it's becoming very, very Clear that Carolyn Calloway is in the throes of an Adderall addiction. Yeah, she's up all night ordering antique furniture off ebay. She's like, she, she wrote in the article that at a certain point she opened a desk drawer to find a pen and an empty, empty Adderall capsule skittered around like cockroaches exposed in light. The manuscript was due in six months and my notes were just lists of funny British foods. I began to worry. So, like, also, Carolyn Calloway admitted to buying followers to beach, which worried her that the book deal was made under false pretenses and that they were going to be. So all this stuff happens. The manuscript, the book doesn't go through. And at the end of the day, everybody just is like, Carolyn Cal is a scammer and not a nice lady. But also the Yale plates.
[66:23]
Host 1
Yeah.
[66:25]
Host 2
And I. What was the other one? I had Eater. And also. Oh, this is not that funny. But somebody else had the. Okay, so there's another scam that happens here in after all this comes out. Carolyn Calloway, like, posts about it on Instagram, of course, has response videos, of course. She doesn't really do long form content. So again, it's always Instagram stories.
[66:46]
Host 1
Yeah, I like that. Like, she'll have like, the posts are like the real things. And then she's like, I need to acknowledge some fuck up little story. You have 24 hours to hear my apology.
[66:55]
Host 2
Yeah, I'm not gonna pin it. And so then Carolyn Calloway at a certain point starts making art. Right. And I have a picture of it. She starts crafting this art in her home that she's selling to her Instagram followers. Okay. And you can pay, I don't know, a couple hundred bucks. I didn't even look up the pricing for this art piece. Pieces. She's making them at home. Crafting them.
[67:20]
Host 1
Yeah.
[67:21]
Host 2
Glue and paper while.
[67:22]
Host 1
While railing Adderall.
[67:24]
Host 2
Who hasn't been there?
[67:25]
Host 1
Yeah.
[67:26]
Host 2
So I like how.
[67:27]
Host 1
Because now I know that she's snorting it. Because you said empty capsule.
[67:30]
Host 2
Yeah.
[67:30]
Host 1
Not empty bottle. Yeah, she's just railing them.
[67:33]
Host 2
Well, as one does. Yeah. Do you know who Matisse is?
[67:38]
Host 1
I know the name.
[67:39]
Host 2
Okay, so this is the art she was selling. Okay, okay, okay. This is the art of Matisse.
[67:48]
Host 1
Oh, oh. She's straight up Henri Matisse. Henri Matisse, Yeah.
[67:53]
Host 2
Okay, so this is the Blue Nudes by Henri Matisse.
[67:57]
Host 1
Yep.
[67:58]
Host 2
And that was what she was selling. And so she's copying, she's cutting out these shapes and then gluing. Them on the paper and sending them out for. And that she's going to pay cash. The fun, fun fact is, if you look at the names of the. The type. The names of the art pieces. This one's called Yale Plates.
[68:20]
Host 1
Okay. That's funny.
[68:22]
Host 2
Oh, this one's called Cashmere Sweater, no Bra. Because in the article, she talks about how she was to wear cashmere sweaters with no bra.
[68:29]
Host 1
Yeah. I just. Okay, turn it to me. So that's amazing. That's taking back the SEO. Much like naming an episode of our show Pearl Mania. 500 controversy.
[68:39]
Host 2
Yeah.
[68:39]
Host 1
Just to make sure that it's the top reply. That's very, very funny. But also. Yeah, this is so fucking good. Oh, my God.
[68:46]
Host 2
But I want to tell you something also that I found very interesting. Carolyn Calloway starts making these, right?
[68:52]
Host 1
Yeah.
[68:52]
Host 2
And everybody's just like, yo, that's just Matisse. Like, you're just making Matisse. And she's like, I'm an art historian and I'm referencing. Referencing. Like, she knows what she's doing.
[69:02]
Host 1
Yeah.
[69:02]
Host 2
But she's saying it's referential art, so that makes it a whole new type of art. Okay. Duh. The thing is, though, because of Carolyn Calloway, Matisse had a resurgence.
[69:13]
Host 1
Yeah.
[69:14]
Host 2
And to the point where, like, the blue nudes were getting sold in, like, Urban Outfitters, and every Instagram person, every YouTuber had a blue nude in their background for, like, a whole year because people. She had brought it back to the zeitgeist. She brought the piece back to the zeitgeist by copying it, which I just thought was so crazy.
[69:33]
Host 1
She's Girl Trump. Sorry, what? Is that too much? Was that too on the nose? Oh, because that's how. That's how Trump works. Girl Trump.
[69:43]
Host 2
Girl Trump. Here's a quote from a buzzfeed article about this art. The entire time we're talking, Carolyn was working on this artwork, gluing the pieces together, and making bookmarks to go in packages. Is Carolyn Calloway actually selling this art, which is either inspired or ripped off from Matisse, depending on your view? She makes on her floor with materials from the craft store. It seems she is. There are at least 20 paintings packaged up for sale at the end of the day. Carolyn proudly showed me they were headed all over the world. Amsterdam, Norway, Oklahoma City, and right down the street in nyc. She told me she is currently selling enough of her artwork to support herself, but not making her rich, as she told me she can afford right now to. She can't afford. Right now to fix her air conditioner. So she's just hoping the fall weather comes soon.
[70:25]
Host 1
Okay, sure, sure. I believe that.
[70:28]
Host 2
Well, she has to play that. She is like a starving artist.
[70:32]
Host 1
I know that. It's just like, I can picture right now that she just goes over and she's like, I'll just turn the air conditioner off. It doesn't work.
[70:38]
Host 2
It doesn't work.
[70:39]
Host 1
I just feel like that's such a lie from her.
[70:41]
Host 2
I love it.
[70:42]
Host 1
It's incredible.
[70:44]
Host 2
Do you want to take a break?
[70:45]
Host 1
No, we're actually.
[70:46]
Host 2
Oh, okay.
[70:46]
Host 1
Yeah.
[70:47]
Host 2
I didn't know. So. Okay, let me see. She ends up saying she's gonna write another book. Okay.
[70:57]
Host 1
She's gonna write another book. Okay.
[71:00]
Host 2
This one she is gonna call Scammer.
[71:04]
Host 1
She's gonna call the book Scammer.
[71:05]
Host 2
She's gonna call the book Scammer.
[71:06]
Host 1
She's leaning in.
[71:07]
Host 2
She's like, hey, I'm gonna call this book Scammer.
[71:09]
Host 1
Okay?
[71:09]
Host 2
It's.
[71:13]
Host 1
I would never give her money for anything that wasn't already pre order.
[71:17]
Host 2
Don't do it.
[71:17]
Host 1
No, no. It's just. It's also one of those things where, like, you know when they're. They're holding a hostage.
[71:21]
Host 2
Yeah.
[71:22]
Host 1
And they're like, give me the money and I'll release the girl. It's like, no, you release the girl and I'll give you the money.
[71:25]
Host 2
Oh, wait, I forgot something. Oh, my God.
[71:27]
Host 1
Yeah.
[71:27]
Host 2
Before. Okay. While she's telling everybody she's gonna write this book called Scammer about her life.
[71:32]
Host 1
Yeah.
[71:32]
Host 2
A biography. Autobiography about her life. She also start selling bottles of homemade facial oil.
[71:40]
Host 1
Oh, no.
[71:41]
Host 2
Yeah.
[71:41]
Host 1
Don't.
[71:42]
Host 2
Snake oiling. Snake oiling it up on our Instagram. She's selling bottles of facial oil for 75 a bottle. Okay. But then also, she's. She's hustling. She's making money. She's selling some snake oil. She also creates an only fans account. No, in her words, she calls it only scams.
[72:02]
Host 1
Okay.
[72:03]
Host 2
Where people could pay $50 to access her, quote, cerebral softcore porn. Which were photos of her topless cosplaying as Dagny Taggart from Atlas Shrugged.
[72:17]
Host 1
What? Wait, she's an Ayn Randian. She's a fucking. She's into Ayn Rand. She's an objectivist. Why is every fucking psychopath into these goddamn books? Hold on. No, you gotta give me a minute. You gotta admit, you can't just fucking drop Softcore only scams and Rand on me.
[72:41]
Host 2
Mm, say that again?
[72:43]
Host 1
Softcore only scams and Rand. It's fucking. What the fuck? I hate you. I'm so mad.
[72:54]
Host 2
Okay, guess what though. I got great news using her only scams account where she did a cerebral softcore porn dressed as Atlas Shrugged characters, which is cosplay for the gods. Honestly, she made enough money that she paid her publisher back for that book advance.
[73:11]
Host 1
No.
[73:12]
Host 2
Because this whole time she has been getting let's. The. The books people were being really litigious and trying to get their money back because she.
[73:20]
Host 1
They need a $100,000 plus interest.
[73:23]
Host 2
So she made the. The an Rand only scams to pay back the book publisher so that she could get another publishing deal to try to make a different book.
[73:31]
Host 1
I am so furious right now. I. Oh my God. Just self publish an ebook, you psycho.
[73:40]
Host 2
No, it doesn't count.
[73:41]
Host 1
Oh my God.
[73:43]
Host 2
Okay, imagine.
[73:46]
Host 1
Imagine going with a literary agent. Yeah. When I publish my book. What's it called? Scammer. What's it about? How I scammed my last book publisher. I love it.
[73:58]
Host 2
A lot of pitch. I love it. So she announced also.
[74:02]
Host 1
I can tell you I like that. I went. I actually not knowing who this lady is, I followed the exact same timeline of all of her fans. Where there's a minute there I was like, oh, it's not really for me. Honestly, that's kind of interesting. You know what? Honestly, I think she's pretty cool. Cool. Yo, this lady, she did what? How is she still? She's the president now.
[74:25]
Host 2
Yeah. So she announces the book club. The book is gonna be shipping in spring of 2020. Okay.
[74:32]
Host 1
Oh, yeah. Famously, things got shipped during spring of 2020.
[74:36]
Host 2
That date got bumped several times.
[74:38]
Host 1
Okay. But she had an excuse.
[74:40]
Host 2
Yeah. There was a whole panorama.
[74:41]
Host 1
Yeah. The plan demic.
[74:43]
Host 2
So there's a glimmer of hope in October of 2021 when customers received an email saying that their copies of the book had shipped. But Calloway informed them that the notification was an accident and her assistant had, quote, hit the wrong button.
[74:57]
Host 1
Oh, her assistant. Yeah, I love it.
[74:59]
Host 2
So.
[74:59]
Host 1
I love that she should just be a congressperson.
[75:01]
Host 2
Literally.
[75:02]
Host 1
She's so good at blaming an unnamed staffer.
[75:05]
Host 2
I'm gonna pull up my other Google document real quick.
[75:09]
Host 1
Okay.
[75:09]
Host 2
I'm gonna show you an image.
[75:11]
Host 1
Okay.
[75:11]
Host 2
It might not be appropriate to show the camera. You let me know.
[75:14]
Host 1
Okay. You show me.
[75:15]
Host 2
Okay. What do you think of this?
[75:18]
Host 1
Okay. That is.
[75:20]
Host 2
Describe it.
[75:20]
Host 1
That is a person in a bikini.
[75:23]
Host 2
It's a bikini shot.
[75:24]
Host 1
Yeah.
[75:24]
Host 2
It's a very neck down. Neck to knees.
[75:27]
Host 1
Neck to knees.
[75:27]
Host 2
No head.
[75:28]
Host 1
Yeah.
[75:28]
Host 2
Nectones no head. String bikini?
[75:31]
Host 1
Yeah.
[75:31]
Host 2
That's a very, very specific type of bikini. A string bikini?
[75:33]
Host 1
Yes.
[75:34]
Host 2
Is it, would you say scandalous? It's a little scandalous, right?
[75:36]
Host 1
I mean, I'm not going to show it on camera just because it just feels. I don't want to be. I don't want a screenshot of me holding up a headless bikini picture.
[75:43]
Host 2
Yeah, that makes sense. I want to read you the caption. This is her Instagram. She's good at Instagram. Caption.
[75:47]
Host 1
Oh, this is her Instagram.
[75:48]
Host 2
This is a picture of Carolyn Calloway she posted to her Instagram.
[75:51]
Host 1
Oh.
[75:54]
Host 2
This says four weeks ago to the day I found out my dad died. Five days ago I found out that he committed suicide.
[76:01]
Host 1
Wait time.
[76:01]
Host 2
I am sexy. Sexy and sensual and grief stricken and shrewd and zany and romantic and generous and imaginative and manipulative and reckless and ambitious and good. I have generalized anxiety disorder and chronic depression and I used to be addicted to Adderall. I'm fantastic with words and I refuse to let the world force me into being any smaller than the messy hole of a who I am just because some parts of me seem confusing or contradicting or inconvenient. They are. Humans are. Period.
[76:33]
Host 1
I tried. I asked you to stop.
[76:35]
Host 2
No, I. You had to have the whole thing.
[76:37]
Host 1
I asked you.
[76:39]
Host 2
4000 likes.
[76:42]
Host 1
Okay. How many followers does she have now?
[76:45]
Host 2
I don't know. I did not check.
[76:47]
Host 1
I'll pull it up, but I just like. My dad killed himself a month ago.
[76:50]
Host 2
This is how she announced her father had passed away via suicide with bikini picture.
[76:56]
Host 1
It's okay.
[76:57]
Host 2
And that was in 2022.
[77:01]
Host 1
Oh, she has a check mark.
[77:03]
Host 2
Of course she does.
[77:04]
Host 1
God damn. 675, 000?
[77:07]
Host 2
Yeah, ebbs and flows. Don't watch any of her stories.
[77:11]
Host 1
This is incredible. No, not that. Her bio says writer. No, not that one. The other writer. The one you love. And then it's just a series of emojis. I'm obsessed.
[77:24]
Host 2
So that. That's how she announced to the world that her dad had committed suicide? Yeah, was with a sexy bikini picture with her face not in it. Okay.
[77:33]
Host 1
Okay.
[77:34]
Host 2
And I had to read it to you that way.
[77:36]
Host 1
You did. You really. You really boomed me. You boom me pretty hard.
[77:40]
Host 2
By the spring of 2023, the memoir was still nowhere to be seen, but the price had increased.6 to $65.
[77:48]
Host 1
65 for her book?
[77:50]
Host 2
Yeah. It was unclear whether Callaway's customers believe that they were paying to get the book or participate in some type of.
[77:56]
Host 1
Performance art I feel like it's performance art.
[78:00]
Host 2
One of my friends pre ordered scammer several months ago. I asked him why, quote, my deep fascination with Carolyn often transcends my financial instincts. He said.
[78:11]
Host 1
There'S something very odd here. I'm noticing.
[78:14]
Host 2
Well, we're on audio podcast.
[78:16]
Host 1
I know. I'm telling you, though, I'm saying I'm noticing this. Very odd. What's so odd in her thing? There's a jump here.
[78:23]
Host 2
Yeah.
[78:24]
Host 1
On her Instagram.
[78:24]
Host 2
I'll tell you why. Stop looking at it.
[78:26]
Host 1
Okay, I'm sorry, you're.
[78:27]
Host 2
You're jumping ahead.
[78:28]
Host 1
Okay, I'm sorry. I jumped ahead in the.
[78:31]
Host 2
Okay. She starts promoting her book because the book's gonna come out.
[78:35]
Host 1
Okay.
[78:35]
Host 2
Okay. She does a follow up piece that gets published in the cut.
[78:42]
Host 1
Okay.
[78:42]
Host 2
In 2023.
[78:43]
Host 1
Okay.
[78:43]
Host 2
The place where she got burned. Right.
[78:45]
Host 1
Yeah.
[78:47]
Host 2
To promote her upcoming book. Actually. Natalie noted that after the initial publication of her essay, things got weird and flattened online. Quote, are you a caroling Carolyn or Natalie asked a buzzfeed quiz. They mean buzzfeed quizzes. Are you Natalie or are you. Are you Carolyn?
[79:05]
Host 1
Yeah. Yeah.
[79:05]
Host 2
Which is why I think that the thing says that writer, know the one you like, not Natalie Beach. You know what I mean? Natalie says she took the quiz and was relieved to learn that she was still herself.
[79:19]
Host 1
That's amazing. But also it's. That's insane that they took that and then made it into one number one, a buzzfeed quiz, which of course they did. But also that it becomes just an archetype.
[79:29]
Host 2
Yeah.
[79:29]
Host 1
It's not that this is a story of a bad person. It's like this is an arc. This is a possibility. You're allowed to pick it.
[79:35]
Host 2
Yeah.
[79:35]
Host 1
Being this type of hard monster.
[79:38]
Host 2
Also, the book got published, right?
[79:40]
Host 1
It did, yeah. Okay.
[79:41]
Host 2
She self published.
[79:43]
Host 1
Yeah. Yeah.
[79:47]
Host 2
In an article published by the Harvard Crimson in March 2024. I'm going to show you the picture. And this is the caption. It says, carolyn is a scammer, at least in narrative. But she's no Elizabeth Holmes or Anna Delvey. What? She. She isn't stealing money or any other exhaustible resource. She's stealing attention. And. Are you not entertained?
[80:10]
Host 1
See, the thing is, actually, I would argue that that is bad too, because she's stealing time.
[80:16]
Host 2
Yeah, she's stealing time.
[80:17]
Host 1
She's stealing time and we live in an attention economy.
[80:20]
Host 2
Yep.
[80:20]
Host 1
And like, that's the thing is, like, a few people have pointed out we were talking about before, about the blue sky bots that show up who just all it does. Is just say whatever you say. The opposite of yep. And starts to try to fight. It's stealing time and attention from you so you don't put it elsewhere. And I. I would argue that this. That her scam. Her attention scam is just as bad.
[80:43]
Host 2
Yeah.
[80:45]
Host 1
As. Not me. Not in the grand scheme of things. Not as bad as, like, Holmes.
[80:48]
Host 2
Yeah.
[80:49]
Host 1
I don't remember what Anna Delvey did. I just knew it was a bunch of scams. I just don't remember.
[80:53]
Host 2
Like, stole from rich people. Right. I don't really know.
[80:56]
Host 1
How is that a crime?
[80:57]
Host 2
I don't know. But they're shooting them in the street these days. Look out.
[81:00]
Host 1
Listen. Watch out. But the United Healthcare CEO.
[81:05]
Host 2
Okay. No.
[81:06]
Host 1
Just in case people wonder what the hell we're talking about. It happened, like, a couple hours before we started recording.
[81:11]
Host 2
Yeah.
[81:11]
Host 1
The. You know, listen. People could be listening to this three years from now, and they'll be like, what?
[81:15]
Host 2
What?
[81:15]
Host 1
Rich people are being shot in the street? CEOs, CEO, United Healthcare. And they still had the meeting.
[81:22]
Host 2
They still had the meeting. That's how little y'all.
[81:23]
Host 1
That's how little anybody matters to. The CEO of the company got shot in front of the building. They were gonna hold the meeting at.
[81:29]
Host 2
Yeah.
[81:30]
Host 1
And they still held. They just. They just cut an hour from the meeting. They still started at 8. But anyway. But no, she's taking time and attention for people that should be focused elsewhere. There was an article I read years and years ago talking about how human brain can only remember, like, 150 people at a time.
[81:46]
Host 2
Yeah.
[81:47]
Host 1
That's about as big as we. Our brain can handle for the, like, clans and villages and the primordial amount that we could grow up with. And now as television appeared, we stopped caring more about our neighbors because we had to care about, like, oh, the Kennedys or, oh, Dick Van Dyke or, oh, these different characters on the TV started to fill a slot.
[82:09]
Host 2
Yeah.
[82:10]
Host 1
And now with social media, there are all these people.
[82:12]
Host 2
My brain is just full of Carolyn Calloway.
[82:14]
Host 1
And that's why I want to thank all of our listeners who have allowed us to fill one of those slots.
[82:18]
Host 2
We're excited to be one of the little notches.
[82:20]
Host 1
Just a little notches in your brain curve. Yep. Thank you so much for having a parasocial relationship with two voices that sit in your brain and say, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You don't need to remember your aunt's name. It's. That's your uncle's wife.
[82:34]
Host 2
Yeah, uncle, wife. I don't know yeah. So then the other note I have here is a really weird rabbit hole. And if you're. If you are a listener who already knew about Carolyn Calloway, this could be really interesting for you to go to this rabbit hole. We don't have time to go deep into it, but there's like this whole Reddit because she has a Snark page, as does everyone.
[82:54]
Host 1
Anyone.
[82:55]
Host 2
And so she has this Reddit snark page, and people have been tracking it for a long time and writing on it. And there was a certain point where she did a video with Vice, no Vice, and she made like a I'm post on her own Snark subreddit and was like, I'm Carolyn Calloway, ama. Here's my cell phone number. Or like, or yeah, text me. Text me on my thing. And she just did that. And then on this Vice episode of, like, YouTube, she got people started texting her on her phone and she started calling them everybody that text her. She called them and said, hi, this is Carolyn. Why don't you like me?
[83:36]
Host 1
Me?
[83:37]
Host 2
Please explain.
[83:38]
Host 1
Honestly, Art. That's art.
[83:40]
Host 2
It's crazy.
[83:40]
Host 1
That's art.
[83:41]
Host 2
It was crazy.
[83:42]
Host 1
That's performance art.
[83:43]
Host 2
Performance art. But the other thing on Reddit that was crazy is somebody found what I'm sure are sock puppets that were created by her so that, like, she's commenting on Reddit or whatever.
[83:53]
Host 1
Sock puppet accounts, sock puppet accounts.
[83:55]
Host 2
And some. There's somebody on the Internet here that's under Internet. The Reddit Internet mysteries. That's done, like a huge breakdown of this. What they believe is a sock puppet that she created or three sock puppets that she created and how they interact with each other. And the one that's so funny, one of these alleged sock puppets went on to a snark called small bean Snark and started posting over the course of a long time, all of these random articles. Right. Like just like posted on the Snark page, different articles. One was like, cruise ship worker reveals what it's like in isolation at sea. The other was, I can't answer my daughter's questions about COVID 19. Right. And somebody put. Somebody started to sort them by new. And it spells out Carolyn from each post.
[84:54]
Host 1
Okay.
[84:55]
Host 2
Yeah. So there's. There's definitely a deep rabbit hole that exists. If you have time to go down the Reddit rabbit hole. That. Yeah, because she's engaging with it.
[85:04]
Host 1
Yeah.
[85:04]
Host 2
And it's weird.
[85:06]
Host 1
It's also one of those things where. And I've actually thought about this. I've thought about this, because there was. I think it was an Australian prime minister or Canadian prime minister. There's one of them. Who was his own enemy.
[85:15]
Host 2
Yeah. You know, have an enemy.
[85:17]
Host 1
No, I'm saying. But he used to write under a pen name about him. I think it was, like, in the 1800s.
[85:22]
Host 2
Yeah.
[85:22]
Host 1
Or early 1990s. He would write in a pen name, op eds about how he was a terrible prime minister and it was himself.
[85:29]
Host 2
Yeah.
[85:30]
Host 1
And like, that's.
[85:30]
Host 2
So I write all the mean things in your comment section about you.
[85:33]
Host 1
I know that's.
[85:34]
Host 2
And I'm like, your hair is not that shiny and luxurious.
[85:36]
Host 1
Okay, we're going to end the episode.
[85:38]
Host 2
It absolutely is. But to be clear, what I'm saying is the articles, when they're put in order, said cruise ship worker reveals what it's like to isolation. Anteater mammal review. Orville Redenbacher's classic popcorn. So the first letter spelled out Carolyn.
[85:52]
Host 1
Right.
[85:52]
Host 2
So, like, there's. There's something here. We don't have a lot of time for it.
[85:55]
Host 1
Yeah.
[85:55]
Host 2
But if you are interested in going down a weird little rabbit hole. It exists. A bizarre rabbit hole. Really. Okay, I'm gonna close it out with this.
[86:02]
Host 1
Okay.
[86:03]
Host 2
We're in the present day. We've made it 2024. Somehow, we've all made it here, and I'm gonna tell you why. Something is probably missing from her grid, because In October of 2024, Carolyn Calloway made news again because she had left New York. She moved out of New York a long time ago. She moved to where?
[86:23]
Host 1
Florida, of course.
[86:24]
Host 2
She had what? A condo. A beachside condo.
[86:28]
Host 1
Okay.
[86:28]
Host 2
It's beautiful. In October of 2024, she decided that she was going to ride out Hurricane Milton rather than evacuate with a Category 5 hurricane. You know, the one where meteorologists were crying on tv. Yeah. So she decided, no, I'm gonna stick it out. And she just. She felt it was an opportunity to cash in. Right. So she started a hurricane diary on her Instagram stories and regular posts. And it began, quote, I promise I'll get to the hurricane stuff, but first, I just want to take a moment to appreciate how rare it is that I'm even writing this and how special it is that we can gather together like this inside my sentences in the Spectator, a place that is famously way more boring and, well, more respected than my social media or my books. Although the Washington Post did call Scammer a masterpiece, and the New Yorker did say that, quote, scammer is funny, engaging, and full of genuine insights, which it is what I would like my tombstones to say. My tombstone to say when it's finally my time to go. If I actually die in the storm, my books are gonna go way up in price. So order now.
[87:43]
Host 1
That's incredible. Oh, girl. Okay, Promo call to action. Got it. Yes.
[87:50]
Host 2
That's what I'm saying. There are people that are promoing and calling action.
[87:54]
Host 1
Yes. And you can promo and call action.
[87:56]
Host 2
This is. This is the posts. She put that on this. You can see the condo. Because she's like, yeah. Oh, Oceanside condo.
[88:04]
Host 1
Yeah.
[88:04]
Host 2
It's her holding her book in front.
[88:06]
Host 1
Of a big glass door window. Yeah, yeah.
[88:11]
Host 2
On the afternoon of October 10th, Carolyn Calloway texted a journalist from Vox. Quote, I lived.
[88:23]
Host 1
Okay, I'll give her that.
[88:25]
Host 2
She posted a screenshot of the same Proof of Life selfie, a message on her Instagram story the morning after Hurricane Milton made landfall. We'd spoken one day earlier about Callaway's decision to not evacuate for the monster of a storm, as well as to post about it. That's her choice on social media. And at one point I asked her if she thought she was going to die, and her response was, someday we all are.
[88:49]
Host 1
Okay. I'll give her that.
[88:53]
Host 2
It was a really hard choice to stay or to go, and I didn't make it lightly. She told me, but, you know, if I can be of service in terms of entertainment for. On the Internet, so be it.
[89:04]
Host 1
Incredible. Incredible.
[89:07]
Host 2
That's. That's where we are right now.
[89:08]
Host 1
That's. That brought us up to today.
[89:10]
Host 2
Today.
[89:11]
Host 1
Oh, my God. How many times do you think she voted for Trump? All of them, I think. Yeah. Every possible chance.
[89:18]
Host 2
All of the times.
[89:19]
Host 1
Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised. Or actually, I don't think she did.
[89:22]
Host 2
She had to.
[89:22]
Host 1
I feel like she didn't. Yeah, she just doesn't vote. She just doesn't vote. Oh, my God. All right.
[89:28]
Host 2
That's who Carolyn Calloway is.
[89:30]
Host 1
Well, I hate everything about this.
[89:31]
Host 2
Are you sure? Because it seemed like you had a great time.
[89:33]
Host 1
I did have a good time.
[89:33]
Host 2
There are ups or downs.
[89:35]
Host 1
There were. There were. There are movies. There were definitely movements.
[89:38]
Host 2
There are movements.
[89:39]
Host 1
There are definitely movements. I. You know what? I will say that she is the Internet.
[89:47]
Host 2
She is the Internet. She's a reflection of us.
[89:51]
Host 1
She's a reflection of the Internet and the times. Yeah, I think that there are some people who are just like, they are an embodiment of the times. She definitely nailed a very specific type of BuzzFeed esque scammer. And that's the thing. And again, I don't really know how much of a true scammer she is. I think she's a bad person. Person.
[90:13]
Host 2
Yeah.
[90:13]
Host 1
I will say that I think she's a bad person, but I don't know how much of a true scammer or grifter I would lean into. Rather than the fact that, like, everything, for the most part, most of what she's done has been like, legal and the terms of service. I think it's more along the lines that there's no rule that says a dog can't play basketball. And then she's like, we'll try.
[90:38]
Host 2
Yeah.
[90:39]
Host 1
And she just does it. And it makes just enough that then they're like, well, now we banned it. And like, well, now we can't do it. And then everyone else gets mad like, well, now we can't do it because of Caroline. Yeah, that's kind of where I feel she's at.
[90:49]
Host 2
Yeah.
[90:49]
Host 1
Does that make sense?
[90:50]
Host 2
Yeah, of course.
[90:50]
Host 1
Yeah. But yeah, okay. With that and her call to actions to buy her book, I want to give a little call to action to all our patreons who are already members because we have a lot who just joined.
[91:01]
Host 2
Yeah.
[91:01]
Host 1
Especially a lot who joined because of ACOTAR, ACOWAR and all and ACOMUM 4 and all of them together. So we're gonna greet a lot of our new listeners after this quick break.
[91:10]
Host 2
Give them shout outs.
[91:11]
Host 1
We give them shout outs. We're gonna drop some more lore in there. And just remember, if you're in the Philadelphia region, you can see me open for Dookie Horner on 12 19. Remember to Instagram for more information, like review, subscribe. All those different things hit us down there in the bottom and we'll be right back with our shout out outs.
[91:33]
T-Mobile Representative
If you have a locked AT&T phone, we're here with bolt cutters. T Mobile will help pay off your locked phone and give you a new 5G phone for free. All on America's largest 5G network. Visit t mobile.com CarrierFreedom via virtual prepaid.
[91:48]
MasterCard in 15 days. Free phone up to 830 via 24 monthly bill credits plus tax and a 10 device connection charge. Qualifying port and trade in service on Go5G next. And credit required contract. Contact us before canceling entire account to continue bill credits or credit stop and balance on required finance agreements. Do you have no credits? And if you pay off devices early.
[92:15]
Host 1
Here we are. We haven't done some shout outs in a very long time.
[92:20]
Host 2
Well, we had a lot of Books to get through a lot of fairies, a lot of horny action, a lot of war.
[92:25]
Host 1
There was a lot of. A lot of. A lot of things that you were just describing.
[92:28]
Host 2
Yep.
[92:29]
Host 1
And a lot happened with all of them. And so I'm really glad. I'm really glad just to be here again with you and to be here with our 35 shout outs that we have.
[92:39]
Host 2
There's a lot of shout outs, which is great.
[92:40]
Host 1
It's been really cool. It's been honestly seeing the growth over on Patreon and seeing everybody who's been enjoying stuff and more ideas that we have coming for future stuff and future tiers.
[92:49]
Host 2
Yeah, it's fun.
[92:50]
Host 1
Has been really cool. So let's go ahead and start off with Lindsay McCargo.
[92:54]
Host 2
Hey, hon.
[92:55]
Host 1
After that we have Prawl Dog with a star.
[92:58]
Host 2
Hey on.
[92:59]
Host 1
After that we have Masterpiece or Menace. Masterpiece or Menace.
[93:04]
Host 2
It was all one word. Nice. Hey, hon.
[93:06]
Host 1
After that we have Madamus.
[93:07]
Host 2
Madamus.
[93:08]
Host 1
Madamus.
[93:09]
Host 2
That's a pretty cool roller derby girl name.
[93:11]
Host 1
After that we have. For more content. Welcome. Welcome to the content.
[93:20]
Host 2
Welcome to the content farm.
[93:21]
Host 1
After that we have to get milked.
[93:24]
Host 2
Got him.
[93:25]
Host 1
You did get that message?
[93:26]
Host 2
Got him.
[93:26]
Host 1
We got to bring mcquarious.
[93:27]
Host 2
Now we gotta bring milk. Various back.
[93:29]
Host 1
Yeah, milk. Where he says to come back to explain. Pasteurization is just boiling.
[93:32]
Host 2
If I have to be the spokesperson for Big Milk, you know we're fucking.
[93:37]
Host 1
If you listen, I don't care about that. I think just being the spokesperson for fucking boiling. Why this it. I.
[93:46]
Host 2
But why should I?
[93:47]
Host 1
Because then they can jump. No, because it can jump.
[93:49]
Host 2
It can jump.
[93:50]
Host 1
Yeah. So like somebody gets a bacterial infection from raw milk, right, that can then, you know, mutate inside them and then become a bigger issue for the rest of us.
[93:59]
Host 2
So we gotta stop them from drinking this guy.
[94:01]
Host 1
It's not so much. We just have to. We have to try.
[94:04]
Host 2
Fine.
[94:05]
Host 1
But not too hard.
[94:06]
Host 2
People listen to our podcast, know to drink pasteurized milk products, right?
[94:10]
Host 1
Well, I mean, listen, anyone who loves us or Carolyn Calloway knows oat milk is the way.
[94:14]
Host 2
I can't drink oat milk. Gives me tummy.
[94:16]
Host 1
I know. So thank you, slut. For more content after that, we have Mint the Doggo.
[94:20]
Host 2
Hey, hon.
[94:21]
Host 1
After Mint the Doggo, we have Sarah Prescott.
[94:23]
Host 2
Hey, hon.
[94:24]
Host 1
Then we have Bill Weiss.
[94:25]
Host 2
Hey, Bill.
[94:28]
Host 1
Hey, Bill. Then we have White Tigress.
[94:31]
Host 2
Hey, hun.
[94:32]
Host 1
Then we have Bedelia. Hey, on just Bedelia.
[94:35]
Host 2
I like that.
[94:36]
Host 1
Next we have our first underscore.
[94:37]
Host 2
Oh, let's go.
[94:39]
Host 1
Hobasar. Underscore of underscore the underscore north Hobosaur. Hobosaur. Hobosaur. It's like a hobo. That's a dinosaur. A hobo sore Hobosaur. After that we have Molly Bailey.
[94:51]
Host 2
Hey, Molly Bailey.
[94:52]
Host 1
This one has some heart emojis.
[94:54]
Host 2
Love that.
[94:54]
Host 1
And then it says Idaho. Underscore potato. Underscore puppy. Underscore love.
[94:58]
Host 2
I love puppies and potatoes.
[95:00]
Host 1
Yeah, that's. That's their whole thing.
[95:01]
Host 2
That's like my whole thing.
[95:02]
Host 1
That is your whole thing. After that we have Nicole. Hi. After that we have Chelsea Westenberger. Let's try that again. Chelsea Westenberger.
[95:12]
Host 2
That's very good.
[95:13]
Host 1
After that we have James Duffy.
[95:14]
Host 2
Hey, hon.
[95:15]
Host 1
Then we have Chris Matherly.
[95:17]
Host 2
Hey, hon.
[95:17]
Host 1
Okay, this next one has like Russian letters in it.
[95:21]
Host 2
Perfect. I love that for you.
[95:22]
Host 1
So you're just gonna get Beppa cap because it looks like Beppa Kappahoba.
[95:29]
Host 2
Nice.
[95:29]
Host 1
But there's. I know that.
[95:31]
Host 2
That just say Beppa.
[95:32]
Host 1
Beppa. Beppa Beppa B E P A like.
[95:35]
Host 2
Bupa the becko Boopa di Beppo.
[95:37]
Host 1
My favorite place on earth.
[95:39]
Host 2
Big me ball buga di beppo. No more of that for you.
[95:43]
Host 1
No. All right, next we have guess underscore my underscore anonymous underscore uniform.
[95:48]
Host 2
Guess my anonymous uniform. I like a one piece jumpsuit. Like a janitor jumpsuit.
[95:53]
Host 1
Oh, that's a good one with that hard. I like that one too. That's a pretty good one. I never had to wear one of those. I was always had to wear polyester pants and then a button down shirt with a clip on tie. Because I was a mall security guard.
[96:06]
Host 2
I had to wear a mini dress for like five years. Got it.
[96:12]
Host 1
Up next we have dots underscore pretzel Underscore queen.
[96:16]
Host 2
Pretzel queen. Hey hon.
[96:17]
Host 1
And then we know this.
[96:18]
Host 2
I see a long one coming up.
[96:20]
Host 1
That's for the pretzel queen.
[96:21]
Host 2
Yeah.
[96:21]
Host 1
Up next. This is a very long with a lot of underscores.
[96:23]
Host 2
Got it.
[96:24]
Host 1
Are you ready for it? Joining underscore at underscore the underscore Hun underscore tier underscore as underscore a underscore fed underscore because underscore Elon's underscore Dumbass Underscore Doge underscore will underscore probably underscore. Get underscore rid underscore of underscore the underscore Archaeology underscore department Underscore for underscore the underscore forest.
[96:48]
Host 2
Yeah, yeah. Doge isn't Great. Doge isn't great.
[96:52]
Host 1
Yeah. The department. It's not even a department, first thing. It's a blue ribbon committee.
[96:56]
Host 2
Yeah.
[96:57]
Host 1
Because to be a department, you then have to have Senate oversight according to our constitution. So it is just going to be an annoying thing that's going to annoy people, hopefully create a bunch of infighting. Yeah. And it's just going to be super annoying. So to anybody who is currently a federal employee, we love you. We.
[97:19]
Host 2
We are grateful for your service.
[97:20]
Host 1
Thank you for your service. All that being said, if you feel like you have to walk away, we understand. Yeah, we do understand, of course. But if you can stick out, I want to just point you to the malicious compliance subreddit.
[97:33]
Host 2
Oh, my God.
[97:34]
Host 1
And just. Because. Just. I would just. I would point that way. Point you in that direction. Talk to your union reps. If you are in a union. If you work for, like, the Department of Labor or maybe, you know, somebody in the Department of Labor, learn what it takes to get you fired.
[97:48]
Host 2
Yeah.
[97:48]
Host 1
And I would just really lean into it, buddy. Yeah, really lean in. Really lean. Just feel the DMV of it all.
[97:55]
Host 2
The P. The pgw. That's the Philadelphia Gas Works.
[97:57]
Host 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just lean in. Be like, you can't fire me. You have the wrong form. And then just stare through them.
[98:03]
Host 2
Yeah.
[98:04]
Host 1
So big. A big shout out to our friend at the Archaeology Department of the forest.
[98:08]
Host 2
Honestly, that sounds incredibly cool.
[98:10]
Host 1
After that, we have the underscore Wyverary. Hey, honey, a few people said that I say Wyvern. It's Wyvern. Okay, whatever.
[98:20]
Host 2
I am in no place to talk about pronunciation, so I don't.
[98:23]
Host 1
After the wife, Ray, we have Caleb.
[98:26]
Host 2
Hey, Caleb.
[98:27]
Host 1
After that, we have every underscore single underscore ad. Underscore was underscore. Betterhelp, underscore, save, underscore me.
[98:34]
Host 2
Okay. See, this is why you join the Patreon. So you don't get ads, because your ads are likely gonna be better help.
[98:39]
Host 1
Yeah. And you know, we never really mentioned it a while ago, we did actually switch our carrier for who the podcast is carried on for the non Patreon members. So you, like, you actually might be getting wilder ads that you used to.
[98:50]
Host 2
Yeah.
[98:51]
Host 1
So that's. That's totally a possibility. Yeah. So the ads are just gonna get worse. Join the Patreon.
[98:58]
Host 2
Oh, my God.
[98:59]
Host 1
After that, we have abs.
[99:01]
Host 2
Abs.
[99:01]
Host 1
Just abs.
[99:02]
Host 2
Don't have those.
[99:03]
Host 1
But you can get ABS with Stacker 2. Remember Stacker 2?
[99:08]
Host 2
Yeah, of course.
[99:09]
Host 1
Yeah. Anna Nicole Smith. After that, we Have Samantha Griffin.
[99:12]
Host 2
Hey.
[99:12]
Host 1
Honor that. We have just. Julie.
[99:15]
Host 2
Hey, Julie.
[99:15]
Host 1
After that we have Joe Bauer. Now, Joe Bauer sent me a message.
[99:19]
Host 2
All right.
[99:20]
Host 1
Because Joe Bauer actually sent us a PO Box item almost a year ago.
[99:23]
Host 2
Oh, really?
[99:24]
Host 1
They were the one who sent us the pouches. And one was Sonic and one was like a galaxy. Really nice.
[99:29]
Host 2
Yeah.
[99:29]
Host 1
And so they are. They're. They're. Their actual Internet name is Sewing Nerd Studios. I look them up. They have an Etsy store that's currently on break. However, Sewing Nerd Studios is on Instagram. It's a fun little page. Go check it out.
[99:42]
Host 2
Yeah.
[99:42]
Host 1
And then maybe when they reopen their Etsy store, if you see something there you like, you can either message them or whatever. You know, that's just kind of. I just want to point you in.
[99:48]
Host 2
There direction bag for all of my nail polishes.
[99:50]
Host 1
Yes, you do.
[99:51]
Host 2
I appreciate that.
[99:52]
Host 1
Yeah. And I have. The Sonic bag is over there. And my sonic shrine.
[99:55]
Host 2
The Sonic shrine. We don't speak of that.
[99:56]
Host 1
We don't speak of the Sonic shrine. After Joe Bauer with Sewing Nerd Studios, we have Cat Mafia leader. It's like a mafia leader.
[100:06]
Host 2
Okay, here's Meow. Cat Mafia leader.
[100:09]
Host 1
Hear me out.
[100:10]
Host 2
Okay.
[100:11]
Host 1
Hear me out.
[100:12]
Host 2
Meow.
[100:13]
Host 1
Hear me out.
[100:15]
Host 2
It would be impossible to be a cat mafia leader because you'd be hurting cats.
[100:19]
Host 1
How are you gonna lead cats?
[100:20]
Host 2
Come on. You come to me on this day, my daughter's wedding.
[100:25]
Host 1
After Cat Mafia leader, we have Melody. Or really.
[100:29]
Host 2
Hey, hon.
[100:30]
Host 1
After that we have Samantha Evans.
[100:32]
Host 2
Hey, hon.
[100:32]
Host 1
Then we have Emma McGill.
[100:34]
Host 2
Emma McGill. Hey, hon.
[100:35]
Host 1
How you doing? Emma McGill. Then we have here. Underscore Four. Underscore Horny. Underscore fairy. Underscore book. Underscore. All underscore about. Underscore Nesta. Please and thank you. Oh, I say because again, I'm being bullied. They really want me to read more. I know I looked. It's been about there. But I'm going to go give you guys a hint. They've been about six months apart. Yeah, it's been about six months apart for each of the books. Kind of how. That's how. Because it usually takes me about three months to mentally get over heel. And then it's about three months of be like I'll get it. And then I look at it and then I'm like. And I'll start and I stop. And then eventually I make a declaration to Mrs. P. And then somehow we've hit the six month mark. Yeah, we have two left. Let's hear it for Ashley Blakemore.
[101:14]
Host 2
Hey, hon.
[101:15]
Host 1
And finally closing it out. Closing it out, we have Sam Mabry.
[101:21]
Host 2
Hey, Sam.
[101:21]
Host 1
Hey, Sam. And that's been all of our new Patreon members.
[101:24]
Host 2
Thank you all so much for your support. We appreciate it and we hope you enjoy all the content we make for Patreon.
[101:30]
Host 1
Yeah. And thank you for everybody who's been following us as well on YouTube. I forgot to even mention I did a live stream stream.
[101:35]
Host 2
Oh, my God. He's a live streamer now, y'all.
[101:38]
Host 1
I'm not doing it all the time live streamer, but if you subscribe to the YouTube, you could get it and hit that bell notification.
[101:44]
Host 2
Yeah.
[101:44]
Host 1
You could get a heads up of when I'm actually live streaming. So then you can hop in the chat and I try to interact with it.
[101:50]
Host 2
Yeah.
[101:50]
Host 1
And I've been having fun. I'm learning. I'm figuring out more stuff. We're trying to figure out future content to bring to you guys. Again, this is our penultimate episode before the season finale.
[102:00]
Host 2
Yeah.
[102:00]
Host 1
Not the series. And so, Mrs. P, what should they put in the comments? Oh, what's our comment this week, Mrs. P?
[102:10]
Host 2
Is it Yale plates?
[102:11]
Host 1
Yale plates.
[102:12]
Host 2
Yeah.
[102:13]
Host 1
I think Yale plates is correct. Y, A, L, E plates. Yale plates. Let's hear it. This has been an episode we've all learned about a terrible person and we're all better for it, right, Mrs.
[102:26]
Host 2
Pink? I feel better.
[102:27]
Host 1
I feel better. You feel better. We all feel better. And with that, thank you to all of our listeners. We will see you next week.
[102:33]
Host 2
Have a great week, y'all.
[102:34]
Host 1
For another episode of Too many tabs, Too many frauds and too many scammers.
[102:41]
Host 2
That we wish weren't real.
[102:44]
Host 1
Too many cons and too many spammers and we're starting to feel like we've got too many times a week open it too many times. Remember to smile.
[103:06]
T-Mobile Representative
At T Mobile, we'll give you four free 5G phones and four lines for only $25 per line per month with eligible trade ins. And no, it's not a contest. It's every day for a limited time. Everyone's a winner on America's largest 5G network.
[103:18]
Minimum of 4 lines for $25 per line per month with autopay discount using debit or bank account. $5 more per line without autopay. Up to $830 off each phone via 24 monthly bill credits plus taxes, fees and $10 device connection charge for well qualified customers. Contact us before canceling entire account to continue build credits or credit, stop and balance on required finance agreement too. Bill credits end if you pay up devices early. Ctmobile.
[103:35]
Host 1
Com.