STARBUCKS: America's Cultural Battleground | TMT 147

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "STARBUCKS: America's Cultural Battleground" | Too Many Tabs with Pearlmania500 | TMT 147

Date: September 28, 2025
Host(s): Pearlmania500 (Craig and Mrs. Pearl Mania)

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Overview

In this lively, research-driven episode, Craig and Mrs. Pearl Mania dive into the chaotic world of Starbucks as a uniquely American cultural battlefield. What should be a neutral space for coffee and mild conversation has become, in their eyes, the front lines of everything from the “War on Christmas” to unionization struggles, viral outrage, and third space dynamics. Using a recent viral boycott incident as their entry point, the duo traces the history of Starbucks' corporate and cultural controversies—covering labor rights, queer politics, hostile architecture, the company’s complicated position on Israel/Palestine, and the evolution of the coffee shop as America’s “third place.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Starbucks? Coffee Shops as Cultural Battlefields

Timestamps: [00:00–02:53]

• Starbucks has become the battleground for American culture wars because "coffee shops have always been revolutionary third spaces."
• Quote:

  "If you go all the way back to Europe in like the 1800s and even America in the 1900s, coffee shops are called a third place... where revolutions have begun." — Craig [01:29]

• Starbucks’ ubiquity and status as a familiar, reliable space makes it the ideal venue for modern social and political skirmishes.
• The hosts joke about Starbucks’ role as a public bathroom and its transformation into the "Walmart of coffee."

2. The Viral "Charlie Kirk Tea" Incident

Timestamps: [03:18–10:15]

• A conservative activist alleged her mother-in-law was given a Starbucks cup labeled "LOSER" instead of "Charlie Kirk" (right-wing podcaster), sparking an online storm.
• The incident was revealed by Starbucks to be a likely fabrication—the slur was not written by a Starbucks employee.
• The episode draws parallels to other conservative-driven "false flag" incidents, including the infamous 2008 “Obama B-Girl” case.
• Quote (Satirizing the outrage):

  "Almost as if it's a false flag, ladies and gentlemen. We've got a Charlie Kirk loser false flag Starbucks cup out here." — Craig [09:42]

3. Virtue Signaling at Starbucks and the Conservative "Flag Plant"

Timestamps: [15:04–18:57]

• The "Charlie Kirk Tea" is just the latest example of conservatives (and their critics) using Starbucks as a setting for very public, performative activism.
• Conservative customers are "virtue signaling" by ordering the "Charlie Kirk Tea" and encouraging others to do so.
• Quote:

  "They're also announcing to everyone... 'I am the hot tea for Charlie Kirk. I am Charlie Kirk. It's I am Spartacus.'" — Craig [15:04]

• The famous Starbucks “honey blend” isn’t just honey and baristas resent having to prepare these time-consuming, customized drinks.

4. Starbucks as Symbol: Liberal, Elite (and Now, Everyone)

Timestamps: [19:54–24:40]

• Starbucks’ expansion turned what was once a countercultural, bohemian space into a “McDonald’s of coffee,” inviting corporate sterility and new cultural coding.
• Coffee orders themselves have become signifiers—ordering a latte once signaled you'd “gone coastal elite.”
• The hosts reflect on the old days of indie coffee shops—places to “plot” revolutions or simply hang out for hours.

5. Controversies over Corporate Speech and Cup Messaging

Timestamps: [30:15–42:25]

• Starbucks' history of printing provocative quotes on cups ("The Way I See It" campaign, 2005) sparked right-wing outrage, especially over pro-LGBTQ+ and pro-science messages.
• Example:
  • Armistead Maupin's quote on being openly gay.
  • David Quammen's quote supporting evolution over "intelligent design."
• These longform, nuanced cup quotes would never be green-lit today, a sign of how risk-averse brands have become.
• Quote:

  "Great quote—a number one quote—they would never print that on a fucking cup today. Absolutely not." — Craig [32:24]

6. Unionization and Labor Struggles

Timestamps: [44:14–48:44], [83:29–87:43]

• Starbucks baristas have been organizing since 2004, with national and international strikes over low pay and anti-union retaliation.
• Aggressive union-busting tactics ramped up in the 2020s, including mandatory anti-union meetings and thinly veiled threats to workers’ benefits.
• Howard Schultz (CEO) notoriously used his Holocaust survivor family background in anti-union speeches—an analogy the podcast calls out as wildly inappropriate:
• Quote:

  "Bro what? ...They're like we want a little more money and better healthcare and he's like bro—the Holocaust." — Craig [87:27]

7. Guns, Race, and Customer Base Divisions

Timestamps: [46:55–54:05], [61:03–69:41]

• Starbucks has been the target of both gun-control and gun-rights activists, with dueling boycotts and appreciation days (symbolized by a flurry of unwelcome $2 bills).
• The infamous "Race Together" campaign (2015), which asked baristas to initiate conversations on race with customers, was poorly conceived and quickly abandoned after public backlash.
• The show highlights a high-profile case (2018) where two Black men were arrested at a Philly Starbucks while waiting for a business meeting, prompting bias training and policy changes.
• Quote:

  "You're telling me it's up to the barista... to hand someone a hot beverage and then tell them my hot takes on race?!" — Craig [62:09]

8. The War on Christmas—and on Starbucks Cups

Timestamps: [70:25–78:20]

• The “red cup” outrage (2015) is dissected, with the hosts noting how right-wing commentators weaponized the plain red Starbucks cup as evidence of a “war on Christmas.”
• Customers were encouraged to give "Merry Christmas" as their name for Starbucks orders, ensuring the phrase would be called out in stores—a direct precursor to the current “Charlie Kirk Tea” ploy.
• Quote:

  "Do you see how this is exactly like the Charlie Kirk thing? ...They've been fighting the same war in the same lobby of different places." — Craig [74:05]

9. Starbucks' Complicated Israel/Palestine Controversies and Boycotts

Timestamps: [88:04–94:48]

• The ongoing international boycott over Starbucks’ perceived support for Israel vs. Palestine began with viral misinformation but deepened after Starbucks sued its union for using a similar logo when supporting Palestinian solidarity.
• The revelation: Starbucks has no stores in Israel or the Palestinian territories as of 2003.
• After the union’s social media solidarity post (Oct 2023), Starbucks sued the union for trademark infringement; the union countersued for defamation. The resulting left-wing boycott cost Starbucks an estimated $11 billion in market value.
• Quote:

  "The consumer boycott is actually... around solidarity with the union, and the union was having solidarity with Palestine... Starbucks was using this moment that they could weaponize as attack against the union organizers." — Craig [92:50]

10. Loss of the “Third Place”: Hostile Architecture and Market Capture

Timestamps: [96:26–98:42]

• The hosts lament the death of the independent coffee shop "third space" and point out how Starbucks, while marketing inclusiveness, is designed to usher customers in and out quickly, similar to airports or train stations.
• Quote:

  "They're using hostile architecture while marketing inclusion—and you can't have both." — Pearl Mania [98:42]

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Notable Quotes & Moments (w/ Timestamps)

• "If you go all the way back to Europe in ... coffee shops historically have been places where revolutions have begun." — Craig [01:29]
• "Almost as if it's a false flag, ladies and gentlemen. We've got a Charlie Kirk loser false flag Starbucks cup out here." — Craig [09:42]
• "They're signaling their virtue signaling to everyone in the third space... 'I am the hot tea for Charlie Kirk. I am Charlie Kirk. It's I am Spartacus.'" — Craig [15:04]
• "Bro what? ...They're like we want a little more money and better healthcare and he's like bro—the holocaust." — Craig (re: Howard Schultz’s union-busting speech) [87:27]
• "You're telling me it's up to the barista... to hand someone a hot beverage and then tell them my hot takes on race?!" — Craig [62:09]
• "Do you see how this is exactly like the Charlie Kirk thing? ...They've been fighting the same war in the same lobby of different places." — Craig [74:05]
• "They're using hostile architecture while marketing inclusion—and you can't have both." — Pearl Mania [98:42]

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Structure & Key Segments (with Timestamps)

• [00:00–03:18] — Setting the context: Starbucks, coffee shops, and American culture wars.
• [03:18–10:15] — The viral “Charlie Kirk Tea” event; conservative outrage and false flags.
• [15:04–18:57] — Conservatives’ performative activism at Starbucks; "flag planting."
• [19:54–24:40] — Coffee orders as virtue signals; evolution of coffee shop culture.
• [30:15–42:25] — Corporate speech on cups; Starbucks, LGBTQ rights, and "The Way I See It" campaign.
• [44:14–48:44], [83:29–87:43] — Unionization; labor activism; Schultz's anti-union rhetoric.
• [46:55–54:05], [61:03–69:41] — Guns at Starbucks, "Race Together" campaign, and policing/anti-Black bias incident.
• [70:25–78:20] — Red cup "War on Christmas"; conservative outrage tactics circa 2015.
• [88:04–94:48] — The modern Starbucks boycott: Israel/Palestine, union solidarity, and brand politics.
• [96:26–98:42] — Hostile architecture and the loss of true “third spaces.”
• [101:08–end] — Reflection and wrap-up.

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Tone & Style

The episode mixes sharp-edged, irreverent humor (a blend of sarcasm and biting commentary), personal anecdotes, and well-researched critical insights. The hosts play off each other's personalities—Craig the acerbic cynic, Mrs. Pearl Mania the research-obsessed detail-deliverer.

Major moments of laughter include riffing on "virtue signaling," the logistics of honey in tea, exploiting marketing gaffes, and comparing historic and modern boycotts. The deeper underlying theme: a frustration with both “culture war” antagonists using Starbucks as a proxy, and the corporatization and political co-option of what were once genuine social spaces.

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Conclusion

This episode provides a thorough, entertaining deep dive into why Starbucks has become a magnet for America's never-ending culture wars. Through a blend of history, viral moments, and biting social critique, the podcast reveals the contradictions and absurdities of both right- and left-leaning boycotts, the dilution of the third space, and the ceaseless march of corporate branding into every nook of modern life.

If you want a sweeping, funny, and revealing tour of 21st-century American culture through a single coffee chain’s rise and controversies — this one is unmissable.

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Transcript

[Craig]

Starbucks you thought you were going for coffee but you ended up in the middle of a culture war because every starbucks on every corner in america has turned into a battlefield a cultural battlefield where liberals and conservatives stare across a gulf and that gulf is actually just the ordering window where you pick up your coffee i thought it was gonna.

[Pearl Mania]

Be the gulf of america no it.

[Craig]

Is not the gulf of america it is the gulf of coffee and across that gulf there are so many controversies controversies that you've been doing your research on this week right misses b so.

[Pearl Mania]

Many okay listen there's demons the logo has demonic roots a war on christmas.

[Craig]

Maybe we should boycott starbucks this gets.

[Pearl Mania]

Really weird honestly for a coffee shop.

[Craig]

We'Re going to cover all of this and more because we opened how many tabs too many tabs remember to smile welcome to too many tabs a podcast where a husband and wife duo sit next to each other at a table and what do they have here at the table do they have delightful coffee no no no no instead they have stories and lore and they want to bring all of it to you and misses pearl mania is sitting right here.

[Pearl Mania]

To my right yes here i am.

[Craig]

And she has done her research on the many controversies around starbucks yeah because.

[Pearl Mania]

Here'S what happened starbucks is always in the news always people always boycotting it or boycotting it and i'm like why is starbucks the place why do americans love to go into this middle coffee shop with burnt coffee beans and somehow scream their politics it doesn't make any.

[Craig]

Sense you know it doesn't at first but then you have to really start taking a look at like the history of cafes and coffee shops right if you go all the way back to europe in like the eighteen hundreds and even america in the nineteen hundreds coffee shops are what's called a third place it's not your home it's not your job it's a third place where people congregate and they meet and they have conversations and coffee shops historically have been places where revolutions have begun boo i.

[Pearl Mania]

Like to go to a coffee shop look at my phone i like to.

[Craig]

Go to a coffee shop and drink an overpriced latte while paying too much for a nora jones cd remember remember back in the day starbucks we got really big on pushing their special cd's and it was always come on starbucks and listen to norah jones i mean she's jazzy but before starbucks used to have cafes and coffee shops all over the world where where people would sit and have conversations they would drink an espresso smoke a cigarette talk about how banks and their jobs and the capitalists and more were fucking them and slowly over time that would turn into a movement whether it be a revolution or a union movement or maybe a new way to look at religion it became a place for people to congregate and also for people to find out community in a way that was different than i don't know twitter and facebook seems super lame it does seem super lame.

[Pearl Mania]

I don't like that at all i don't like talking to people or third spaces i want my coffee like i like my other things boring and bland i want the budweiser of coffee the.

[Craig]

Walmart of coffee the starbucks of coffee one hundred percent that's exactly what starbucks is turned into just like mcdonald's starbucks is on every corner to the point where when we look to the skyline and we see that green siren yes it's a siren it is not a mermaid when we see it in the sky we know hey i know exactly what i'm going to get in here poop oh yeah cause most people drink coffee to poop i had to wake.

[Pearl Mania]

Up a little well no i was gonna say well i meant it more than like whenever you're in a city there's never any like bathrooms to use oh yeah so starbucks is always a bathroom and it's a real experience anyway can i tell you how i got into this sure tell me how you got into it so starbucks is in the news right now well because a viral social media video last week claimed that the employee one of the baristas at a chicago starbucks wrote loser on a cup you know how they use sharpie and write your name yes yes.

[Craig]

Yeah yeah but there's stickers too though.

[Pearl Mania]

Right yeah like they do the printout stickers but like some still do the sharpie name right okay and so there this person said that they ordered a charlie kirk tea do you know about the tea the charlie kirk t i.

[Craig]

Think i've heard about this but explain it to me flavor the people who.

[Pearl Mania]

Are listening the people that are listening here you go so a bunch of people that love charlie kirk favorite podcaster yeah they decided to honor charlie kirk's memory they were going to go order his favorite drink and then request his name be written on their cup and then say that they're not in a cult got it but so this drink is a mint majesty tea with two honeys okay i need to tell you something it's caffeine free what's the fucking point i don't what's i'm sorry if i'm in a place that sells caffeine i need the caffeine anyway this lady goes in and she orders this drink and she says write charlie kirk on there okay and then they didn't write that they just wrote loser across the cup really okay now the whole controversy gets started because this lady jacqueline garrettson who according to her x bio that's twitter for those of you who are have a good brain that wrinkles twitter okay is the illinois illinois state director of the conservative caucus and previously worked as a staffer for failed republican attorney general candidate thomas devore okay so so.

[Craig]

A republican stooge goes to a chicago specifically chicago because that's important a chicago starbucks yeah they order a drink and then tell the person their name is charlie but this way you see you.

[Pearl Mania]

Said it's a woman but here's the thing yeah it wasn't her oh she states it was a relative whom she later identified as her mother in law okay so she says that her mother in law went to the starbs and got the mint majesty tea with two honeys known as kirk's favorite drink okay and that when the order was completed she saw on her cup that it said loser now but this thing is garrison's like on twitter she's like you all she starts encouraging her followers to call starbucks and report the incident and she later posted two videos of her and an unidentified man confronting workers at that starbucks location i guess it's norwood park location okay and this is quotes i'm talking five pm today i want some form of action from the employee that represents this business that wrote loser on my mother's cup the man who is not seen on camera can be heard saying to the video quote we're we're looking for we're not looking for a corporate bureaucracy i want immediate accountability and if not i will have the whole intersection this whole intersection lined with patriots today i'm not even joking the man told a starbucks employee okay so.

[Craig]

But like it's an okay that's this is very i now i want to speak to the ceo it's beyond i want to speak to the manager yeah they're immediately going into howard scholes well.

[Pearl Mania]

He'S not anymore he's not he's not.

[Craig]

The ceo yeah yeah but but they want to they want they want retribution now yeah they are mad but also they i don't what the video received.

[Pearl Mania]

More than forty thousand likes on twitter and when that doesn't mean much on.

[Craig]

Twitter that could just can just be bots from india like i hate to say that but that's twitter by the way we're going to keep calling it twitter i also would like to just call it the nazi propaganda machine because twitter that's a real mouthful it is it is a real big mouth gotta gargle that one yeah but i hate saying x because we're like on their ex profile i mean it was like our ex husband ex boyfriend like i hear x and i think lonely and on ketamine like elon the thing about.

[Pearl Mania]

Ketamine is you shouldn't be alone when you do it no you shouldn't that's why they call it a party drug you should be at a party with.

[Craig]

Friends back in the day the first time i ever saw something on ketamine in front of a local coffee shop i'm dead serious there was a guy i used to know he used to take a lot of cad he was just in front of a coffee shop i was like rich what are you doing he was like i was like what are you doing he's like and.

[Pearl Mania]

I was like okay all right buddy okay buddy do you need a water so the video gets all these likes but not that many honestly garrettson posted that she went back to the norwood park starbucks at five pm and found a sign that said the business was temporarily closed because yeah the staff was tired of getting fucking yelled at yeah cuz you threaten put a sign on the door and went home yeah you.

[Craig]

Threatened you said we're gonna be back.

[Pearl Mania]

Here with a few hours that day from their paycheck they're not gonna make rent because you but but also more.

[Craig]

Importantly you said you're gonna come back with a mob yeah we're gonna come back here with patriots i don't get paid enough for that yeah and these are these are starbucks employee i don't know what the minimum wage is in illinois i know it's higher than pennsylvania much higher than pennsylvania because what's our minimum wage in penny seven dollars twenty five cents seven dollars twenty five cents an hour here in pennsylvania that's one.

[Pearl Mania]

Coffee at starbucks that is yeah yeah that is you don't even get a.

[Craig]

Cake pop with that no not at all you want a cake pop you got to work a second hour but the more importantly is these people these are just customer service reps yeah but this is so did they catch who.

[Pearl Mania]

So yeah okay here we are ready so five years she finds the sign that says the business is temporarily closed she makes another video thank you to everybody that called and stopped in to order charlie kirk's drink and put in complaints with corporate over the past twenty four hours we have shut them down garrison wrote in text over the video in an email the starbucks starbucks spokesperson confirmed that the norwood park location was closed only for a portion of the day however the spokesperson said that the company reviewed timestamped in store video footage and found the note was not written by a starbucks employee the note appears to have been added after the beverage was handed off by somebody else oh.

[Craig]

Almost as if it's a false flag ladies and gentlemen we got a we got a charlie kirk loser false flag starbucks cup out here i just want to let you guys know right now that we're looking deeply into this oh yeah i should do it in the candace owens voice yeah maybe it was israel oh my god i'm not saying it was but maybe it was maybe benjamin netanyahu was standing in the background with a sharpie cup writing loser on your charlie kirk drink so that way you'll stay mad and that way it'll be a left right issue instead of.

[Pearl Mania]

An up down one and i know it's weird that you think you're agreeing with me but you're not i know.

[Craig]

You don't know who i am because i i've only recently entered into your.

[Pearl Mania]

Midwestern algorithm anyway the norwood park starbucks was open the next day of course it was and then garretson has not yet responded to requests for comment about.

[Craig]

This of course it wasn't because number one she's an op and number two this is a false flag yeah false flag and this is you know what this reminds me of what b girl and what b girl from the obama campaign in two thousand eight i don't know a lot of people forget about b girl there was this woman i want to say she was in detroit or somewhere i think the upper midwest and she was a mccain volunteer got it working for john mccain who was running against barack obama in two thousand.

[Pearl Mania]

Eight john mccain a john mccain republican.

[Craig]

Normal i can't say something else i hated john mccain i still do yeah mainly because you gave us that daughter.

[Pearl Mania]

I was going to say it's the.

[Craig]

Fucking daughter we need anyway this john mccain volunteer she was a young woman i want to say she was in her early twenties she claimed that she was assaulted by a black man okay who robbed her and then pulled out a nut knife when she saw that she was a john mccain fan and carved a b the letter b in her face into her cheek why would they do that because she claimed that he did it for barack obama he was stamping her for barack obama now feels fake this went viral for like i want to say like eight hours on like the conservative side of of like you know areas on the internet okay until somebody looked at it was like why is the bee backwards.

[Pearl Mania]

Oh because she did it herself she did.

[Craig]

It herself in the mirror she false flagged herself oh my god but she doesn't she didn't much like oftentimes whenever.

[Pearl Mania]

You see a consent honestly can i tell you okay okay this a dirty bitch in a scumbag i don't like her right that's a dirty bitch move fuck that bitch forever however if you were going to do it if you were going to do this yeah you don't do b for barack you do o for obama and then o is never backwards because it's an okay yeah.

[Craig]

One hundred percent you would think that is exactly what she would do you.

[Pearl Mania]

Were such a scummy dumb bitch not.

[Craig]

Well dumb her name was ashley todd what's she doing now i don't have anything now but she later confessed to having invented the story after surveillance photos and a polygraph test were presented she was charged with filing a false police report and entered a probation program for first time offenders mint is still dollar fifteen a month for premium wireless and if you haven't made the switch yet here are fifteen reasons why you should one it's fifteen dollars a month two seriously it's fifteen dollars a month three no big contracts four i use it five my mom uses it are you are you playing me off that's what's happening right okay give it a try at mintmobile dot com switch upfront payment.

[Pearl Mania]

Of dollar forty five per three month plan dollar fifteen per month equivalent required new customer offer first three months only then full price plan options available taxes and fees extra see mintmobile dot com.

[Craig]

From the cascades to pdx to your kitchen we recycle like we live here that's why governments brands and recycling companies are all joining together to bring change to make recycling better as in trusting that your recyclables end up in the right places to be made into new things and having brands help fund the cost of recycling you can find the latest updates at recycleon dot org oregon from mount hood to the bin under your desk together we can do this this is conservatives planting their flag and saying the same way they did in target yeah the same way they've done in walmart the same thing they did to budweiser and saying you need to care about our dollar first yeah our dollar the conservative dollar is the most important dollar is what they're doing in this and they're trying to show but.

[Pearl Mania]

They don't tip so i don't even.

[Craig]

Get a dollar i know it's a very fair point they don't tip i know you know how i know that how i know that i've worked i've worked a lot of sunday brunches next to churches i watch all those in their sunday best cross the street after hearing that sermon they're being told about you know a rich man a camel going through a needle eye of a needle versus a rich man getting into heaven and they went that's about a gate and they walked across the street.

[Pearl Mania]

Ten top deep ten top deep ten waters with lemon oh god hot tea but anyway they are ordering hot tea.

[Craig]

They are holy shit but stop okay.

[Pearl Mania]

My thing is that i hated when i had to work those events those brunches post church brunches where they were all really really really really really rude and mean and then they never tipped yeah is like at least six out of the ten top water water hot tea and hot tea hot tea is so fucking annoying to make it a restaurant it takes so much time and you got so many other tables well here we got this hot tea but now the charlie kirk drink is hot.

[Craig]

Tea yes oh but here's here's the thing is is the other reason they're doing this is to plant the flag i said they're planting their flag and they're also announcing to everyone in the room yeah that they're and they're going i am the hot tea for charlie kirk i am charlie kirk it's i am spartacus yeah you know anybody's ever seen the movie sparty i am spartacus i am also this person i believe the same thing and they're signaling their virtue signaling to everyone in the third space and listen there's a thing about starbucks versus the rest of everywhere else right starbucks is one of the few places where liberals and conservatives definitely know they're in the same room yeah people who are coded though visually coded as liberal and visually coded as conservative across the country so you'll have a construction worker with his american flag bandana yup yup next to however whatever you think of leftist looks like today i mean.

[Pearl Mania]

It really depends i'd say septum ring.

[Craig]

Septum piercing purple hair whatever performative male whatever you know what i mean like it doesn't fucking matter like it's just but everyone who's in there knows that they're in there because why are they in there i need i need a coffee to wake up i might maybe i need a croissant and and i probably got to poop yeah because everybody poops in a starbucks because it's coffee and coffee makes you poop coffee is.

[Pearl Mania]

A laxative well this is the thing is i think they're constipated because this charlie which is why they're so grumpy the charlie kirk tea is actually a caffeine free tea it's an herbal mint tea with two things of honey yeah that's it so you're paying like five bucks and for caffeine free herbal tea.

[Craig]

At that point at that point you're paying for hot water but the reason why charlie kirk would have ordered that with the two honeys i know this because i've done it what performing stand up comedy oh it's good for your throat it's good for your throat it's it's for your throat because you build up on phlegm but guess what what.

[Pearl Mania]

It'S not this is a sidebar i went on a little tab okay is that it's not even honey so here's the thing well it is honey but like it's diluted so basically when okay so i ended up on the reddit for starbucks baristas where they were like.

[Craig]

Wait starbucks baristas have their own reddit.

[Pearl Mania]

Yeah don't go there leave them alone they have enough going on okay but they were just talking about like stuff they hate their work and i was like yeah i get that do you.

[Craig]

Think half of is just like starbuck it's like weird starbucks psyops to try to convince them to not unionize the background hey guys have you noticed how much we love our starbucks benefits and.

[Pearl Mania]

I moderators are all fudgeing paid ops.

[Craig]

Yeah be anti union listen we don't know this is a joke real fast real fast reality we don't want we don't want the starbucks employee subreddit coming after us but but i says i'm suspicious of anyone who is a reddit moderator for free yeah every single reddit moderator is actually a paid shill and well it's probably tied back to israel.

[Pearl Mania]

All right go ahead okay they were saying that when they get these orders not just these orders but like any order with tea and honey okay people will be like can i have two packets of honey in there and then they have to hand open the little packets of honey and they fudgeing hate it because it's such a time suck.

[Craig]

Wait who when you say they don't don't don't do what they they did this they shot this who is they.

[Pearl Mania]

The baristas when they get an order.

[Craig]

What do you mean the barista has to open the honey there it's if.

[Pearl Mania]

The order says two honey in it they have to put the two honey packets in it what the fuck what we talking about i know what you're thinking i know that you hand them the two pack i know they put the two that's what you would think but no i guess starbucks corporate says you gotta open the packets and put them in for them unless they say on the side unless they say on the side anyway oh they were all talking about how they hate the fucking time suck that it is to open these packets and sometimes they're saying they have to put them in hot water because they're so like hard like one of your soy sauce package ones so they gotta like soften them up it's like it's a time suck so anyway.

[Craig]

What the fuck hold on hold on wait just real fast real fast from a corporate perspective they gotta sit there and tear these little packets and then do the goop sit there and work it every set on two packets yeah that is at least a full minute you're slowing down your drink times i have been a barista yeah i have worked in coffee shops yeah i've been a cafe man you're slowing down the turnover of the drinks if you're slowing the turn that means you're not pushing more drinks that means you're slowing down your sales that means you're having a build up there around that little area where people are waiting yep and you're probably slowing down your drive thru line at the same time you're definitely slowing down your drive through line what the fuck are we doing you want to pack if you want two packets of honey packets on the side packets on.

[Pearl Mania]

The side i don't understand but starbucks did come up with a solution or they have a solution ingrained in the way they work which is they have a thing called honey blend okay which is like you know their sauce syrups like you like caramel you always get caramels in your coffee we go to.

[Craig]

The donkeys we get the donkeys we go to donkeys we don't go to starbucks if we had if there was a local coffee shop to us that was that was good or easy to access close we would go to no but it's there because real fast we're we're anti starbucks because we're pro local coffee shops yeah but also we end up just the closest thing to us is a dunkin donuts yeah but so.

[Pearl Mania]

They have like the pumps and they have a pump called honey blender so most people when they get their mint majesty with two honeys they're getting two pumps of the honey blend got it but then i was like what the fuck is honey blend okay i looked it up and it's a pump mix that they use that's like sixty four percent honey so it's like honey water natural flavors preservatives wait wait potassium sorbate zany gum and citric acid zani gum there's any gum in there zanny is it doing zanny bars that nope no.

[Craig]

No xanthum gum oh see i'm thinking back i'm thinking back to the cafe i used to hang out back in.

[Pearl Mania]

The day perks perks it was perks.

[Craig]

And zany i mean the first time i heard of a zany bar was a guy being like you want a tombstone and i was like a pizza but now now everybody's like deep philly lore deep philly lore you try to get a tombstone buddy but okay first thing i'm already caught off guard that you said honey blend and it's only sixty four percent honey i know because honey is one hundred honey it is one hundred honey oh my god oh.

[Pearl Mania]

My god but i like that it has all these weird preservatives in it.

[Craig]

Oh yeah we gotta get rfk because.

[Pearl Mania]

Rfk would be like they're talking about they don't want to take tylenol for their headaches but you're drinking honey blend you don't know it's in honey if.

[Craig]

You don't give listen if you don't give these pregnant women tylenol how are we gonna have more starbucks baristas okay how are we gonna have more starbucks baristas okay okay but real fast real fast i just want to get back into this whole i am the charlie kirk label and all these things because it's a signifier we're virtue signaling to everyone there in the room but also again it's been a flag plant so that way when people view starbucks starbucks has always been viewed as like this liberal coastal elite you know what i mean college no no college educated when people look at coffee yeah they especially coffee shops it's always been latte i remember in the nineties when starbucks was first getting popular in america we drank coffee drip coffee folgers it went through a process it was machined we used to not even buy our own like whole grain coffee beans relatively in america that's like a new thing you would get pre ground coffee from a tin right it was shit and that's what it was and then in the nineties as coffee culture started getting big and starbucks started spreading places i remember the first time people were like oh i got a latte and be like a latte you got a latte oh i got a mopa frappucci everybody oh mopa for mocha frappuccino everyone if you told somebody if you were a if you were a man if you were a man in america and you turned to your buddies after a hard day of playing rollerblade street hockey and you said you know i could go for right now fellas go for me a nice i'd go for me a nice latte a caramel latte they'd be looking to go how long when you when did you come out craig you go you're gonna you pro gay marriage now too craig there was a thing of there's this coding around coffee shops where if you went there having a latte itself was its own virtue signal if you had a latte we could assume you were a clinton voter you know what i mean like that was kind of what part of it was like cappuccino was a little bit different because cappuccino is italian oh but lattes that was.

[Pearl Mania]

But also i have to just say with the educated thing like every i've worked at quite a few coffee shops yeah yeah yeah and every person i knew that worked in the coffee shops with me always had like a master's degree or a phd so they were the most educated people in the world.

[Craig]

Yeah because also being a barista doing those things typically you was a place you hung out at typically at a college because there's a lot of coffee shops in colleges and especially in small.

[Pearl Mania]

Colleges got to be awake to study.

[Craig]

You got to be awake to study adderall baby but again and going back to it being a third space this is a place where students would go that wasn't the library it wasn't a bar it wasn't their job it wasn't their dorm room it's a place to go and so you'd sit there i can't tell you how often in the late nineties early two thousands you'd see people just reading a book in a coffee shop what am i doing just reading a book in a coffee shop what is reading book at a coffee shop actually do i'm showing people that i'm reading a book the same way if i order a coffee and i force that barista to say charlie kirk i got a hot tea for charlie kirk then everyone there is being signaled yeah that there is a charlie kirk supporter here the same way they were being signaled that somebody is reading a dan brown novel and hoping that a woman will think that makes him smart.

[Pearl Mania]

Oh my god dan brown yeah the da vinci code the curse upon the.

[Craig]

Libraries but but the the this is this is part of all of that you know this is this is part of where all that comes together back.

[Pearl Mania]

In the day when we had coffee shops or tea shops independent ones independent ones never starbucks i would go to them to read a book but it was mostly because like you said like i don't have an espresso machine at home yes so if i want a latte i shall go to the place where they can make me my nice.

[Craig]

And i want to drink a latte while i sit in a comfy chair.

[Pearl Mania]

I used to have comfy chairs well.

[Craig]

It depends on the place well the one thing is so i worked in a lot of independent cafes as a barista and as other and you know other things like cashier and stuff like that and like the difference between a starbucks starbucks is designed like a mcdonald's there's booths there's tables there's chairs it's set up to get to flow you in and to flow you out there's an area for you to sit but they're always going to make sure it's a little too cold so you don't want to hang out there they're always going to make sure the chair isn't that comfortable so you don't stay too long but like old cafes back in the day the ones where you could feel like you go where you could plot a cafe was a place to.

[Pearl Mania]

Plot yeah plot the overthought or the.

[Craig]

Government or just plot your evening what are we going to do later we're going to plot this weekend it's a place for the two of us to go sit and it was always that like they always had too many chairs and too many tables right they were always a little too tight and there would always be the one area where there would be like like in friends yeah they hang out at they hang out was at the central perk like that style coffee shop is a nineties thing and that was the type originally when starbucks first was rolling out everywhere that was the esthetic they were kind of pushing everywhere that then got corporatized more and more and more that turned into the mcdonald's feel yeah and the thing is is once you start turning the mcdonald's feel then you need to be turning in the conservative feel because now your whole job is to be non offensive to everyone and that's been that's one of the big changes no.

[Pearl Mania]

I there is a coffee shop on south street it was like a ninth and south that i used to love actually i think they filmed an episode of it's always sunny in there i think the waitress the first time you meet the waitress is in that coffee shop i think it's called gleaners now but i forget it used to have a different name but it's like really tiny there's a back room that's so small everybody's hips were touching when you were in there yeah just like touching back like our hips are touching we're all in our tiny little tables and we just sit there and they had board games and a two small bathroom.

[Craig]

A two small let me guess you.

[Pearl Mania]

Could smoke in there i don't know.

[Craig]

If you because the coffee shops i used to hang out in used to be able to smoke in them back in my day kids you could smoke in a coffee shop those it was a great place you could you could drink you get there you drink your coffee you smoke two cigarettes you destroy that bathroom the one place i used to hang out in westchester is a place called finerio yeah i'll never forget i would sit there i would drink coffee i'd chain smoke and then i'd blow this bathroom up and i'll never forget that bathroom cause they had this painting on the wall so you're sitting on the toilet and you're looking at this painting and it was a painting of the american flag and it said the american dream and that too became another faded lie and i was i'd be just sitting there in two thousand three i'm just sweating oh my god i should eat real food and it's just this is in between like miller lights and jaeger yeah so it's like miller light and jaeger evening coffee and cigarette morning yeah and i'm just sitting there like the american dream is dead george w bush is the worst president.

[Pearl Mania]

We'Ll ever have yeah we are getting worse than this we are currently living.

[Craig]

Through a fascist takeover america in two thousand three due to the actions of clear channel communications and their silencing of liberal thought like bill maher ah hey.

[Pearl Mania]

Listen why don't we take a quick break and when we come back i want to talk to you about intelligent.

[Craig]

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[Pearl Mania]

Extra cost i love hellofresh because it makes you cook me dinner it's very.

[Craig]

True i am not a confident cooker i don't have the power and the ability of misses pearl mania when it comes to making a tasty delicious meal but when i have a hellofresh card there and i have the ingredients already pre portioned for me it makes me feel better and more confident in what i'm about to make and i know that not only you but the baby is going to enjoy it and guess what they have even bigger portions now and that'll keep everyone satisfied the best way to cook just got better go to hellofresh dot com tabs ten fm now to get ten free meals plus a free item for life one per box with active subscription free meals applied at six discount on first box new subscribers only varies by plan that's hellofresh dot com tabs ten fm to get ten free meals plus a free item for life as always like subscribe comment give us those five stars on apple on spotify hit that hype button and.

[Pearl Mania]

If you want to listen ad free join our patreon at promania five hundred.

[Craig]

Net yeah promania five hundred net where you can join us and now we are now putting in the description of the patreons a link to an ad free viewing experience of this very podcast.

[Pearl Mania]

Upgrading your lifestyle we are listen this.

[Craig]

Is that's what we do with the money we get over to patreon we take it and we put it back into the show we buy we buy lighting we buy a wallpaper i sometimes put it on correctly it looks great i think it looks amazing i'm ignoring.

[Pearl Mania]

Any comments that don't say that please.

[Craig]

Comment that i did a good job with the wallpaper or i will repaint these walls with my own brain hey.

[Pearl Mania]

What hey what okay so listen the one thing i want to say across the board is the ceo of starbucks was howard scholz right yes he was the ceo till twenty eighteen and then he left but then he came back and joined the board of directors and then he left the board of directors in twenty twenty three okay so i'm going to start back in two thousand five where like my research kind of.

[Craig]

Begins you left out a little thing about howard scholz was that in twenty twenty he ran for president of the united states of america as a democrat in the primary larry he did yeah he ran for president against like joe biden bernie sanders elizabeth warren and it was pretty clear his whole thing was and even when he dropped out and he didn't endorse biden until like september of twenty twenty okay he was like we need a centrist we do there's things are getting a little bit too things are getting a little bit too uniony it was very it was always money it was always union stuff but he was very much he's very much a coastal elite lib where it's like hey guys gay marriage right like these things right oh you want union and more money we're all in this together.

[Pearl Mania]

Yeah okay you so you see you have that thing where you can see ahead that that magic forethought thing oh.

[Craig]

No that's just called reading history and understanding context clues oh okay that's a curse also a gift in two thousand.

[Pearl Mania]

Five okay howard schultz and his team decided they wanted to add quotes by artists writers scientists and others on the starbucks cups in two thousand five yeah okay and they're printed on the side of the cup so this isn't handwritten sharpie stuff this is printed on the cup got it and the campaign was called the way i see it okay.

[Craig]

So this is just different quotes from different people about the way they see.

[Pearl Mania]

The world the world okay so one of the quotes was by writer armistead malpin okay and it said i know him the quote itself said my only regret regret about being gay is that i repressed it for so long i surrendered my youth to the people i feared when i could have been out there loving someone don't make that mistake yourself life's too damn short okay that's.

[Craig]

A hell of a quote it's a.

[Pearl Mania]

Great quote it's a hell of a.

[Craig]

You know i'm gonna say something real fast yeah co saying that quote great work great quote a number one quote they would never print that on a fucking cup today absolutely not they would never put that on a cup today if you are wondering how i know that go check out the pride section.

[Pearl Mania]

In target there is none so that made the christians man okay what does it i know shock okay so i.

[Craig]

Thought but this but this is before facebook twitter and all those different things so they were just kind of doing.

[Pearl Mania]

They had to know they had to it was in the newspaper yeah called.

[Craig]

The newspaper man yeah they would have to write they had to write a letter yeah buy a stamp i miss those days i miss the days when people were mad about something they had to go buy a stamp you had to put thirty three thirty two cents.

[Pearl Mania]

This is why the postal service is getting defunded we don't have to write angry letters anymore we just type i.

[Craig]

Hold on real fast real fast i.

[Pearl Mania]

Was mad about something yeah that literally just reenacted every day all day no.

[Craig]

You said no but i usually don't do it my thumbs usually i'm like this you know what i can't stand right now the government also capitalism yeah.

[Pearl Mania]

Then they they're going to bury that.

[Craig]

One don't yeah no it's fine so.

[Pearl Mania]

Here'S another quote that was also on the side of a cup okay also.

[Craig]

Can i tell it real fast because you threw up the image on the screen these are incredibly long quotes i know this is a lot of ink and ink costs money so like they they're making a financial decision not only to take a stance alongside of somebody who's like i shouldn't have ever been in the closet i'm happy i'm gay i'm out there each letter yeah in a print costs money yeah like there's times like when we made when we made our shirts that we rolled out with they were like hey just so you know like if the size and the placement if you want to do doubles yeah front back like that's that's twice as much i was like makes sense but it's like when you get into the print job of things yeah like this is a lot a lot.

[Pearl Mania]

Of cups that's a lot of sources.

[Craig]

There are yeah and also somebody's gonna be mad because i bet you some guy kept getting in there be like i why do i keep getting the.

[Pearl Mania]

Gay cup the gay cup well that's because they get a huge box that's got probably fifty sleeves of one hundred cups and they're all the same cup yeah so like there's probably just like one starbucks that for one week was just giving out the gay pride cup.

[Craig]

No not me you know if i work there i would have been if todd chrisley came in if todd chrisley came in i'd have a i'd have a sleeve of twenty five cups set aside with that quote and every time todd kirstley came in i would make sure i'd be like mocha mocha latte.

[Pearl Mania]

You'Re talking about todd chrisley the prison reform advocate yes prison reform advocate todd.

[Craig]

Chrisley i would make sure he would be like how he would this this is literally his direction goes hey i don't want to make a big deal but how come every time i come in here i get the gay they don't even do quotes on cups anymore they haven't done this in years why do you keep giving me the gay.

[Pearl Mania]

Why do you have vintage two thousand eight cups you've been holding on it's.

[Craig]

Every time every time are you trying to say something you'd get in big.

[Pearl Mania]

Trouble for that i remember a million years ago probably around two thousand eight honestly or twenty ten do you know who mary kate and ashley are mary.

[Craig]

Olsen the olsen twins do i know who the olsen twins are i don't.

[Pearl Mania]

Know about you okay so mary kate and ashley olsen in the early aughts were famous starbucks drinkers okay those girls always had a huge cup of coffee in their hands every paparazzi picture of them is in an oversized sweater with a giant scarf and a big floppy hat and like the biggest starbucks venti.

[Craig]

And they were and they were real.

[Pearl Mania]

Thin yeah real thin real thin and so there they were very thin and i guess some barista at some starbucks somebody came in and interviewed them they were like trying to figure out what their starbucks order and i'm pretty sure let me know in the comments if i'm wrong i'm pretty sure it was a skinny vanilla latte that is my brain on internet culture from the early aughts okay we all knew mary kate.

[Craig]

And ashley's order what's skinny mean skinny.

[Pearl Mania]

Means that the syrup the flavor syrup is calorie free oh okay it's just low cal okay calorie in a skim.

[Craig]

Latte yeah i know a few people gonna be like i thought you said you were barista i thought you know i was like i didn't really i was just you told me we would speak in a different language yeah no.

[Pearl Mania]

The person who came up language is.

[Craig]

Completely different yeah i know there's that but also it's just the way when people walk up like they tell the cashier one thing and i literally my job was hungover guy who just moved the things i used to listen i was told i was told i made a really good cappuccino and i had never had one i just knew the foam yeah and it was same thing with a lot my the the owner of the cafe i worked at this one cafe he was super he's like you got to get an olate art dude dude you would be so good at latte i never could get i could never do the leaf yeah i could never do it i can't do them i try i tried with the with the little with a little with.

[Pearl Mania]

A pot you just made a metal.

[Craig]

Pot blobby ghost and now we don't do it now we don't even do.

[Pearl Mania]

It anymore well why would you nobody puts their cool food pictures on instagram anymore no fun filter on it no.

[Craig]

Instead they just write i am charlie.

[Pearl Mania]

Kirk millennials are we're too busy we don't have time to take cool pictures of our food like we used to.

[Craig]

On instagram well it's also because we don't be tracked by palantir that's really what it comes down to we hit a weird wall where one day we were like oh my god this is so fun to share with my friends and apparently the shareholders of an ai.

[Pearl Mania]

Company oh my god i'm being scraped oh so anyway what i was saying about the mary kate is that they so some i think it was some magazine went to this starbucks in new york city and they were like what's their order we want to print what their order is because everybody wants to know what mary kate and ashley's starbucks order is because they're iconic starbucks drink and this barista admitted to crimes and was like yeah they get you know this this vanilla latte with the skinny syrup but but i think they're too thin so i don't give them skim milk i give them whole milk and then the new the reporter journalist put it in there that this person's doing and i'm pretty sure they got fired.

[Craig]

Of course they did do you want to admit your crime now what was my crime let's just say natalie portman.

[Pearl Mania]

I forgot about that crime that wasn't.

[Craig]

A crime she requested an organic apple okay did you give her an organic.

[Pearl Mania]

Apple okay hear me was the apple organic it had an organic sticker on.

[Craig]

It with enough said move back on to the controversies i'm not admitting crimes.

[Pearl Mania]

I'M not admitting crimes so one of the other cups that's kind of the.

[Craig]

Lore people are gonna be like what does that even fucking mean.

[Pearl Mania]

Leave a comment about that and then i'll remember it when we record the after party which is our patreon exclusive episode in which we respond to comments behind a paywall and if you write a comment about that i will tell the story of the natalie portman non organic organic.

[Craig]

Apple and don't you dare don't you dare make a compilation of these for tiktok and post them and tag us yeah don't you dare you monsters all right so back to the controversy we.

[Pearl Mania]

Got another cup so one of the other quotes i want to tell you.

[Craig]

Oh there's two well there was like.

[Pearl Mania]

Two hundred quotes okay but i this other one was the other one that like started a whole thing okay so david quammen they used his quote and it said evolution as described by charles darwin is a scientific theory abundantly reconfirmed explaining physical phenomena by physical causes intelligent design is a faith based initiative in rhetorical argument should we teach intelligent design in america's public schools yes let's do it not a science but alongside other spiritual beliefs such as islam what's that say zoroastrianism sure and the hindu idea that the earth rests on a giant turtle now so we have this one about intelligent design not being real okay.

[Craig]

So actually so here's what's fun about that okay that is such a nuanced quote that is such a new that is such a both sides perfect this is evolution should be taught in science and intelligent design should be taught in comparative religion studies or maybe like a debate argument class right like that's what this person is saying yeah it also took them an entire cup oh my god that's a big old that's a.

[Pearl Mania]

Thing thick em quote only but but.

[Craig]

Again we are now we're so twitter brain now yeah that like a layer of this could never make it because we could only think in headlines and bumper stickers at this point as a people yeah except for the listeners of this podcast you guys know how to deal with nuance and long quotes and.

[Pearl Mania]

Thoughts and long form content yeah amazing.

[Craig]

Long form content like this which is why you're going to give us five stars right now on apple podcast i want i want a thousand i want a thousand reviews hit the hype button oh hit the hype button silence whatever whatever we need to say just what it listen whatever we need to whatever we need to say okay whatever we're gonna get you there because think about we want to get you back to a time where starbucks would put apparently six paragraphs worth of a quote onto.

[Pearl Mania]

A cup a doctor bronner's bottle that's.

[Craig]

Insane oh what a what a great poll we did our episode episode about that too yeah but this is such a this is this is such a good quote this is such a what.

[Pearl Mania]

Was the reaction to it the christians and cause they just lost their fucking mind of course they did they just they just got mad yeah because like oh we're boycotting and they kind of.

[Craig]

Didn'T though intelligent design is he's right though it's a rhetorical device that was created to try to put a counterbalance against evolution because they don't have a second theory intelligent design just says somebody had to have made it all yeah and i think i i don't really love neil degrasse tyson a lot because more recent years i think he both sides certain political things too often but one of my favorite quotes from him was about if we were intelligently designed why did you put a playground next to a waste treatment plant i was just like that's a fair point why why does my dangle also dingle you know what i mean like a lot.

[Pearl Mania]

Of things are next to things they.

[Craig]

Shouldn'T be next they shouldn't be next to and also like yeah and and like if you've if you think that we're intelligently designed then you're dumb that's that's the thing that's just the thing.

[Pearl Mania]

I know let me tell you something about intelligent design okay we have to brush our mouth bones every day every day you gotta brush your mouth but these are bones from your skeleton that are out that's crazy if we were.

[Craig]

Intelligently designed we would have these would be shark teeth because they have a lot and they can replace themselves a certain amount yeah they turn they turn.

[Pearl Mania]

Around yeah we don't have intelligence design that's intelligent close when they eat my eyeballs close when i eat too when i eat my hello fresh meals anyway.

[Craig]

We don't even have an intelligently designed.

[Pearl Mania]

Infrastructure i didn't learn about intelligent design in school because you're catholic i know.

[Craig]

They didn't do they don't do that.

[Pearl Mania]

Over there yeah shout out we got a lot of problems in the catholic church yeah but they didn't teach us intelligent design they got mad scientists well.

[Craig]

Because intelligent design was also designed it literally was designed to be shoved into public schools schools it was it's a cudgel to be used at public schools it feels almost quaint now because this was such an old culture war thing but it's one of those things that comes back you know you have the scopes monkey trial from all the way back in the the nineteen twenties and then it's an evolutionary trial about a teacher that got tried and found guilty of teaching evolution in school that went against like some local law okay and he was found guilty but it was like a big flash point yeah and then good schools taught people about it later and goes and this is why we've gotten intelligent as a species to the point where now no one questions evolution.

[Pearl Mania]

More controversies go ahead okay here's one thing i just want to put a pinpoint in our timeline here the starbucks workers started their first starbucks union in two thousand four okay okay that's when the first i think it was seven stores okay started in two thousand four the unionization of certain starbucks locations.

[Craig]

Right okay got it got it got.

[Pearl Mania]

It in two thousand six the starbucks union had to go up against starbucks they did a big boycott they were picketing outside of different locations in australia canada germany in major cities all over america because five starbucks workers had had their hours cut their wages not withheld from them and two people were fired so there was this big boycott and protest by starbucks staff to have these people reinstated and their back wages paid.

[Craig]

Which they did do which what you just heard right there is two things number one on behalf of starbucks that was retaliation that was illegal retaliation well it used to be illegal i don't.

[Pearl Mania]

Know about any of that laws aren't.

[Craig]

Real baby who knows these days right am i right folks am i right folks you know who wants to pay a contractor folks but that first thing was retaliation and what you heard from the starbucks employees is what's called solidarity yeah because if you take out one of us you got to take out all of us and as they know that they nobody without a barista there is no latte yeah without a barista there is no one for a karen to scream at at seven thirty in the morning for some fucking reason just so angry without a barista there is no one to ask where the wi fi password is is which was also a great thing with the cafe i worked in two thousand six ironically two thousand six i worked at an independent cafe again we had a lot of really tables really close together but we didn't have wi fi and i remember asking the owner like why don't we.

[Pearl Mania]

Have wi fi he's like so we'll.

[Craig]

Leave no that was actually it was part of it one was because of turnover but also he said we actually have a lot of writers and people who come in here and they like that we don't have wi fi because then they actually get stuff done because they'd come in with their laptops they'd sit down they'd open up microsoft word back in the day when you used to have to pay for it once because it wasn't a subscription service and they would log into microsoft word and they would go type up their articles or write their book or whatever and then they could get things done for a certain amount of time while they drink their coffee yeah and then they'd leave but he's like now i went back there a few years ago now they have wi fi he's like we couldn't beat it anymore but if starbucks opened down the street and we actually used to use it we would point customers over there like people would come in be like i want you to cheat me like you go to starbucks it was very empire records it was very like oh you want that go down the starbucks is right down the street the starbucks go ask them for a venti yeah you're over here we.

[Pearl Mania]

Have medium all right one size medium one size i like a coffee shop with one size i do like a.

[Craig]

One size coffee shop but i don't like it when it's a weird like like what's a twelve ounce sixteen and then there's twenty yeah i've been to a place at eighteen i was like i don't trust you no i don't.

[Pearl Mania]

Trust okay so listen in twenty twelve the national gun victims action council published an open letter to starbucks asking them to revise their policy about allowing firearms to be carried in starbucks so starbucks basically had the policy that if a state or county had the had the laws written that you could open carry then you could open carry in a.

[Craig]

Starbucks for those of you guys who don't know open carry means everyone can see your gun yeah because there's open carry and there's concealed carry concealed carry you often need a license a permit or a license i wonder who has.

[Pearl Mania]

That.

[Craig]

Because that way because you need to be cleared so that way no one knows you have it yeah right and there's there's like sign offs there's all these really weird ways to do it some states they have like especially in the midwest open carry and that's where you can really wear it like.

[Pearl Mania]

A gunslinger yeah and you look like a real dork inside of starbucks and a giant ass firearm yeah when some.

[Craig]

People have like a you know they have an ar fifteen over there you've seen guys like the ar fifteen the.

[Pearl Mania]

Subway penises in the world but but.

[Craig]

That'S part of it and there's been some states again in the culture war when when there's been discussions about gun regulations especially around school shootings and other things like that that their reaction has been we need more guns and in fact everyone should see how many guns there have and often unless you have restrictions against you owning firearms and in how many states is it i think it's forty three okay so except for seven states in america and i believe i think it's seven states in the and the district of columbia yeah you can legally just carry a gun if you're allowed to own a gun yeah you just have to make sure that everybody knows you have it and it should be i believe it's supposed to be holstered so it was either holstered or like on a strap i don't know i think i'm not a lawyer whatever we just have community college degrees.

[Pearl Mania]

Yeah listen we're just making a comedy podcast here history comedy podcast that's exactly.

[Craig]

What we do and we have a couple of guns and a big dog.

[Pearl Mania]

Whoa what whoa okay and a big security system council this gun victims action council made this open letter to starbucks asking them to revise their policy and say asking them to say that people couldn't open carry yeah even if it was an open carry state right yeah they called this they called for a boycott called the brew not bullets boycott and they wanted valentine's day to be the particular day that everybody boycotted the chain got it they picked one day and they're like this is the day we're all going to boycott for bruise not bullets so that they they'll change.

[Craig]

Their policy and i'm guessing that their hope was that we'll show that on valentine's day how many people do don't want to see guns or be in the presence of guns in our store yeah and it'll show how many people we have in our movement yeah and all those different things because they'll see a dip in their sales on valentine's day which is probably a big day because people are coming in picking up coffee for their wife or they have treats and all the different they have valentine's day stuff little snacks yeah in.

[Pearl Mania]

Response gun rights activists started a counter boycott not boycott called starbucks appreciation day to support starbucks stance and the people running it suggested that everybody pay for their products using two dollars bills as a sign of second amendment support to.

[Craig]

Fuck you dude i can't stress to you guys how i cannot stress to you guys that i can tell now that these guns rights people have never had real jobs yeah they've never been a cashier they've never had a real job if you have ever worked anywhere that that you receive money and you have to put it into a till you know as i know there is no slot for a two dollars bill there is no slot for a two dollars bill there is no slot for a two dollars bill you are now stuck with a bill that you don't know what to do with you have a slot for a one a five a ten a twenty maybe you have a slot for a fifty hundreds are definitely going to go underneath if you guys even accept them but a two dollars bill what do i even do with this what do you you have to hope that there's some weirdo that comes in be like by the way when i make change you cool with a two and then that person oh i collect two dollars bills you have to hope for those fucking people listen and if it's like the dollar coin send it with the dollar coins the sacagawea coins the sacagawea or any of the different dollar coins when we had those come in oftentimes those old tills don't have the slots for them depending on where you're at and so you're just stuck with these extra fucking coins through god forbid if it's a shift or if you work at a bank when i worked at a bank when i had my till that was my till until i checked it out so i'd be every single day i'd be stuck there with the four two dollar bills i can't get rid of hoping until some pop pop comes in who has four grandkids oh you know it would be a great idea for the birthday maybe you should give them each a dollar two bill they'll like that oh that'll make me a cool pop pop they don't care they just want fortnite gift cards they want to go on discord and get radicalized hey why.

[Pearl Mania]

Don'T we take a break and when we come back we're going to talk about gay marriage hey i like gay.

[Craig]

Marriage foreign you know how taking care of your headspace means tackling the stuff that stresses you out well for me that's money finances can weigh heavy on your mental health that's why experian is my bff my big financial friend the experian app helps me check my fico score shows me ways to save and matches me with credit cards and here's the best part cards labeled no ding decline won't hurt your credit scores if you're not initially approved it feels good knowing my finances are finally under control and honestly that's peace of mind you can't put a price on download the experian app today for free applying for no ding decline cards won't hurt your credit scores if you aren't initially approved initial approval will result in a hard inquiry which may impact your credit scores.

[Pearl Mania]

Experian.

[Craig]

And now for everyone's favorite thing gay marriage that's right i'm hitting the hype button for gay marriage because honestly it's been ten years it's been legalized for ten years everyone forgets that it was only ten years ago that it wasn't legal in a large part of the united states hmm and it was.

[Pearl Mania]

A big deal it was a big deal i remember how big a deal was yeah in january twenty twelve a starbucks executive stated that the company supports the legalization of same sex marriage the.

[Craig]

Company the company that's crazy for somebody to step forward and say every place i've ever worked they're like you don't speak on behalf of the company we have no state stance on anything until.

[Pearl Mania]

Us we say otherwise so this resulted in a boycott by the national organization for marriage a political organization that opposes same sex marriage and then they got like twenty thousand signatures or more in favor of their boycott which honestly isn't.

[Craig]

That many that's not twenty thousand i mean that's that's like not even a full day of sales for them at.

[Pearl Mania]

Like two locations yeah exactly i mean.

[Craig]

That'S the thing about when we're looking at numbers like we you have to deal with major numbers yeah and you know oh my we got we got two twenty thousand people signed okay that's i mean all right i guess we won't we won't open a starbucks in.

[Pearl Mania]

Boise oh blah blah so there was a shareholder holder meeting after this happened after this boycott started okay and one of the shareholders who actually believed agreed with the national organization for marriage so he was anti gay marriage this one shareholder he was like well you know our recent earnings have been pretty disappointing since the boycott kind of like trying to press the button that like they should come out against same sex because.

[Craig]

Financially financially this isn't good for us.

[Pearl Mania]

To be financially yeah and ceo howard schultz received responded this is a quote if you feel respectfully that you can get a higher return than the thirty eight percent you got last year it's a free country you can sell your shares of starbucks and buy shares in another company thank you very much wow.

[Craig]

I will say that is can i say that say hey howard that is a very good very cunty i was.

[Pearl Mania]

Gonna say it's so country that's very.

[Craig]

If you think you can do better than thirty eight percent last year then why don't you go walk across that is exactly how i talked to the people when i was working at the independent cafe about how that you know starbucks is go right down the street.

[Pearl Mania]

Go right down that street why don't you go to duncan d's yeah yep yep howard schultz is not a good character in any of this story no.

[Craig]

No but this is a great pool.

[Pearl Mania]

Quote but it's just a really good.

[Craig]

Pool it's a very good pool the same listen i feel about howard schultz schultz similar the same way like the same way i feel about like winston churchill right like good quote michelle got a good quote that's a good quote.

[Pearl Mania]

Scumbag you know what fuck you a.

[Craig]

Lot of the times buddy a lot of the time fuck you a lot of the times but that's a good.

[Pearl Mania]

Quote right there okay so here's the thing here's what happened yeah i started looking up the national organization for marriage because i'm like who are these people because what happened after gay marriage passed like now you get a whole organization and you're lost well you know what's.

[Craig]

Crazy is that on the opposite side there's organizations that were pro gay marriage once gay marriage was legalized like what do they do party no no i'm saying a lot of them like they lost a lot of funding because people are like oh well that the only reason i was giving was for that mission and we completed that mission so now we're done and now look where.

[Pearl Mania]

We'Re at oh boy so anyway the national organization for marriage i found the funniest story and yet more proof that conservatives are so bad at fucking marketing okay okay on april eighth of two thousand nine the national organization for marriage i'm going to call them nom as in nom nom nom nom nom nom began a new initiative called the two million for marriage initiative okay with the intention of organ organizing two million people nationwide to go against gay marriage can.

[Craig]

I tell you something real fast yeah go ahead two million is not a lot we are a nation i think now we're at three hundred fifty million people in this country yeah two million isn't even one percent like that's i just want to just remind people giving.

[Pearl Mania]

Themselves a low bar i mean it's.

[Craig]

It'S still pretty high because still getting two million people together is craz crazy it's a it's a it's a large amount of people but like you could do that and just have that cover.

[Pearl Mania]

Southern baptist i saw a woman who had two million followers on tiktok that doesn't have that anymore oh yeah hannah brown she's very her she was very red yeah she's very red i don't know if her blood pressure is higher she got sunburn at the charlie kirk.

[Craig]

Thing i think it's a sunburn i think it's a sunburn i think she didn't set up her good lighting but we're not here to talk about her we're not talking about her all right.

[Pearl Mania]

So two million for marriage okay so they they come up with this campaign and here's the thing they wanted to abbreviate it instead of just saying it so they called it two m four m shut the fuck up i swear to god guys listen i know that some of you are young i know that you're young and maybe you didn't have craigslist when you were a teen or older wait wait okay wait on craigslist we used to have personal ads where i mean it's still there you can go look at them and on the personal ads there was all these different coded language for things and two m four m means two men seeking a third male sexual partner so you would go into craigslist in the personal ad section and you'd write two m four m and then maybe include a picture right and that's how people found each other on the internet back then and so nam didn't know that they didn't google that they didn't check the.

[Craig]

Seo they didn't check they didn't check the seo the search engine optimization they.

[Pearl Mania]

Didn'T they didn't know what two m four m meant which is so funny.

[Craig]

This would be like saying this would be like saying like we're tired of being pushed down we're down here at the bottom but we have the power where are the power bottoms like what are we doing yeah oh my god yeah you literally were setting up they were like we're standing up for marriage because we're proud eiffel towering a dude.

[Pearl Mania]

Yeah what the fuck i i love.

[Craig]

And i love that the best part is the best part is right i know how this goes with all these conservative groups especially ones that are anti gay that always been there because there's been so many there was there was an amazing website i don't know if it's still open up there anymore called gay homophobe but it was it was all these different guys who got caught being very anti gay and then being caught in gay affairs okay which means you'd be in a situation where there had to have been at least one guy in the meeting that just happened.

[Pearl Mania]

To that guy you were talking about last week what the betty johnson guy.

[Craig]

Oh yeah yeah yeah betty johnson yeah people are saying that he's been caught in another gay affair because he's bisexual but the the one of the big things though is like you know when they're in this nom meeting yeah they're all sitting around no no i hate lesbians i hate gay people no no no two million four marriage okay great we should put it oh we should shorten it so we can put them in short bumper stickers maybe we can get a hashtag yeah and there's one guy there's one guy and he's like he's like well and they're like what's the matter charlie you have some thoughts about that no he's like no no no no no i have no idea i have no no thought about that not whatsoever no no no no no.

[Pearl Mania]

So nom didn't secure the domain name or any other internet resources that used to m four m so this guy christopher ambler a consultant in rapid web development who categorizes himself as quote a happily married straight guy who purchased the domain two m four m dot org and branded it for two men for marriage hell yeah completely counter to noms.

[Craig]

Aims we love this we love this.

[Pearl Mania]

They ran a tv ad campaign during the same time for the two m four m campaign called gathering storm and it was actors primarily mormons from arizona standing against a dramatic storm cloud background of the oncoming clouds of gays that are going to get married oh they're going to we're going to stop dogs.

[Craig]

And babies oh no two women can sign up to the same subaru lease.

[Pearl Mania]

Oh dink stinks dink stinks we used.

[Craig]

To be dinks dual income no kids yeah you know it's also now we.

[Pearl Mania]

Got to spend all our money on blueberries and you know what happens to people that have got to spend money.

[Craig]

On blueberries enough about that we're moving on to another joke that's going to be a deep cut that no one.

[Pearl Mania]

Will understand in six months on march sixteenth twenty fifteen starbucks launched a marketing campaign to promote conversations about race between customers and employees wait wait wait wait.

[Craig]

Wait hold on hold on i'm sorry.

[Pearl Mania]

What.

[Craig]

You gotta give me a second here you gotta give me a second you you we just went hard from we're pro gay marriage to you just said that they want customers and employees to talk about race what could go.

[Pearl Mania]

Wrong race what could go wrong in america america loves talking about its history.

[Craig]

During a business setting at a at.

[Pearl Mania]

Ostensibly a restaurant morning right before work.

[Craig]

Getting into it okay okay so whose idea was this was this howard schultz.

[Pearl Mania]

It'S somebody up top okay but howard.

[Craig]

Schultz was the ceo so he signed.

[Pearl Mania]

Off on he signed off on it the marketing campaign called asked baristas to write the hashtag race together on customers cups what hashtagging this is because again this is when hashtagging is really popping so they were hashtag race together hold.

[Craig]

On when was this twenty fifteen okay so this is around ferguson this is around that time where we're seeing we're seeing some racial strife early on it's the beginning like the black lives matter movement all those different things and howard howard schultz and the the executives at starbucks thought well i know how to bring down the temperature yeah hot i want to i want to hand someone a hot beverage and then tell them my hot takes on race yep anyway.

[Pearl Mania]

It went really poorly duh doy categorized as a fiasco by many media outlets yeah and the thing that i felt was really kind of funny and ironic in this is that again this was all about opening a dialogue right but the starbucks vice president of public relations ended up deleting his twitter account because he didn't want to respond to people anymore about racetogether which is not a great way to open a dialogue but.

[Craig]

That'S the thing is like these things need to happen organically like if there's going to be a national conversation right about anything yeah it can't come from a corporate hashtag on the side of a cup but also yeah you're telling me that it's up to the barista to write hashtag race together and then have the conversation which means it's up to the barista to to choose who they're gonna do think about this i'm not getting paid think about this it is ten thirty in the morning right yeah on a thursday yeah guy walks in and you're like this one hashtag race together and he's just like you could tell he's being handicapped no no not me no not me why do you want to talk to me what do you think about what what imagine if you hand it to bill burr i mean jesus christ like you know what i mean like there's so many.

[Pearl Mania]

Things that would be incredible i mean.

[Craig]

He wouldn't it would be strange because he'd be in riyadh at the time.

[Pearl Mania]

Hey oh anyway so i told you that started on march sixteenth on march twenty second the ceo advises employees to stop writing hashtag race that is less.

[Craig]

Than a week yeah that is that is that is under we had a dialog we discovered it's bad and we.

[Pearl Mania]

Moved on we're not doing it you know when they did have a dialog they couldn't get away from when was that in twenty eighteen okay so three years later years later at a philadelphia location at the starbucks in rittenhouse square two black men were arrested because of the store manager oh do you remember this i this was all over the.

[Craig]

News i do remember something i remember there being you say it was a.

[Pearl Mania]

Written house yeah it was in written.

[Craig]

House okay yeah i remember a little.

[Pearl Mania]

Bit so these two guys dante robinson and rashawn nelson okay were at a starbucks in written house square which for people outside of philly is like the nicest area in center city philippines it's.

[Craig]

A very very high fluent area it's nice it's a high end area it's very rich rittenhouse square park itself is a private park that is surrounded on all sides by is the barnes and noble still there or they moved no they moved it but there's like very high end restaurants there there's a lot of very high end old money i.

[Pearl Mania]

Worked at all of those restaurants yeah.

[Craig]

But the people in the apartment buildings it's old money and there's apartment buildings and stuff like that so like this is a very lives there yeah very we're talking about pricey money money neighborhood.

[Pearl Mania]

Money okay okay so these guys are at the starbucks they're sitting at a table they go up and they ask if they can have the key to.

[Craig]

The bathroom okay because again it's it's the middle of a city so they don't they're open to the public but they're probably have it locked because they don't want somebody to shoot up in.

[Pearl Mania]

The bathroom so the the manager refuses to let them use the bathroom because they haven't purchased anything okay and so the two guys are like listen we're waiting for we're waiting for a business associate to come waiting for a third a third because they were having they're like entrepreneurs that's their whole thing is like they were having a real estate meeting so they were waiting for their friend to get there to have to all order coffee and then sit down and talk which makes complete sense that's.

[Craig]

How that's how you want to order.

[Pearl Mania]

My drink and then somebody shows up and i'm already halfway done it but.

[Craig]

Also even more importantly you're sitting there with the coffee the person shows up then they're like oh let me go get my coffee and now you're delaying you can start the meeting while you're waiting in line exactly and while you're waiting for coffee or at least get the icebreakers done yeah that's how most.

[Pearl Mania]

People operate that's how it works in the real world yeah anyway this manager was so mad that they wanted to use the restroom and hadn't purchased anything and we're sitting at a table waiting for their other person yeah they called the police and reported them for trespassing and then the police came and arrested them that's for trespassing and so this incident obviously sparked widespread outrage all over the philadelphia area but also it became a national story yeah and it led to company wide racial bias training and changed the policy that anyone is considered a customer regarding regardless of purchase when it comes to using the restroom right gotcha the coffee chain had to close eight thousand stores on on may twenty ninth to do a racial bias training for every employee right and then dante and rashawn obviously sued them they reached a confidential financial settlement with starbucks we don't know how much they got but they also went up against the philadelphia police because why the did you arrest these guys because that my whole thing is listen i know the philly cops they don't want to do paperwork they're any any time i've had to talk to a cop and there's like a situation like where something like this is going on they're like just leave let me just hold the door open just leave we're going to calm them down.

[Craig]

We'Re not saying listen we're not saying that philly cops are good at de escalation what we are saying is that philly cops are incredibly lazy and they want to just get through the shift.

[Pearl Mania]

Strike for like a decade yeah they've.

[Craig]

Been on soft strike for a very long time but also it's been it's been one it's one of those things when they're looking around they're like just get out just fucking just beat it.

[Pearl Mania]

Just beat it yeah that's what they would do yeah that's i feel like that's what they would do i've been.

[Craig]

A situation i worked as a i've had a lot of jobs when i worked as a bouncer and we had to call you know the police showed up half the time they were turning to the drunk and just being like fucking just get out of here if you don't leave now i'm arresting you.

[Pearl Mania]

Yeah it's usually what would happen it's not correct it's not right no they should not have been asked to leave they should have never called the police.

[Craig]

It should never have escalated this situation.

[Pearl Mania]

That the police even put handcuffs on these guys yes so then the dante and rashawn were going to sue the city obviously and but they ended up with a separate settlement with the city in which philadelphia our tax dollars paid a symbolic one dollar payment to dante and rashawn but then what they did is the dante and rashawn's idea was that they wanted to start a fund kind of like a grant for an entrepreneurship program for inner city youth to get into being entrepreneurs so the city agreed to fund a two hundred thousand dollars a year granted to fund youth initiatives to help young men become entrepreneurs.

[Craig]

Yeah these are so so what you're saying dante and rashawn are amazing guys yeah who were there to meet somebody else to talk about and then could have sued they could have sued the shit shit out of the city for wrongful arrest yeah but instead we're like no we want young men in our city to have a shot and you guys aren't using that properly anyway so they use the power of that moment to create a fund to help more people yeah yeah this is fucking insane yeah it's insane listen let's take a.

[Pearl Mania]

Quick break okay and when we come back we're gonna talk about the war on christmas christmas.

[Craig]

High interest debt is one of the toughest opponents you'll face unless you power up with a sofi personal loan a sofi personal loan could repackage your bad debt into one low fixed rate monthly payment it's even got super super speed since you could get the funds as soon as the same day you sign visit sofi dot com power to learn more that's sofi dot com p o w e r loans originated by sofi bank na member fdic terms and conditions apply nmls six nine six eight nine one all right we're about to hear about christmas misses p's one of your favorite times of the.

[Pearl Mania]

Year it's in the top three it's.

[Craig]

Literally what's top one thanksgiving oh yeah.

[Pearl Mania]

I forgot everybody knows thanksgiving all right.

[Craig]

Good was it thanksgiving then what halloween.

[Pearl Mania]

Thanksgiving then christmas you just then easter then halloween okay it's really about how many deviled eggs am i getting gotcha gotcha and halloween you don't get any.

[Craig]

Devil eggs you don't get any deviled eggs but you do get goose goops ghosts and goblins ghosts and goblins yeah.

[Pearl Mania]

Also you get the little ghost peeps.

[Craig]

I like those i do like a.

[Pearl Mania]

Ghost peep okay so november twenty fifteen.

[Craig]

November twentieth we're right around the time.

[Pearl Mania]

Of november twenty fifteen you and i had been married for a month two.

[Craig]

Months we've been married for two months.

[Pearl Mania]

At that point fine okay married for two months at that time yeah no.

[Craig]

We'Ve been married for two months at that point in time because we got married in september that's right okay listen.

[Pearl Mania]

Some of us are really good at stuff i can tell remembering anniversary well.

[Craig]

You'Re really good at research so go ahead and keep that tell me about.

[Pearl Mania]

The war on christmas november twenty fifteen starbucks introduced a solid red seasonal cup.

[Craig]

I remember i rem oh this is i remember this one this is the stupidest controversy i can't believe it's been.

[Pearl Mania]

Ten years it's been ten it's been.

[Craig]

A decade it's been a decade since the red cup of doom so unlike.

[Pearl Mania]

Previous holiday cups which were decorated with winter or christmas oriented imagery such as reindeer ornaments the cup design was just red okay for the holidays it was just flat red just flat red with the white lid yeah and then you get like a little brown or green cover yeah and if it's like the green starbucks cover then you're red and.

[Craig]

Green yeah that you're ready but also like in general i remember seeing the images of it it was the red starbucks cup right yeah sitting in front of like the green starbucks logo with the siren on it right and so those two things are sitting together and that's red and green because red and green are christmas especially like it was like a almost like a cranberry red.

[Pearl Mania]

Right yeah it's like yeah it's like.

[Craig]

A poinsettia red yeah it's a red.

[Pearl Mania]

It'S a deep red anyway this what people started citing this as yet another example of the war on christmas calling it cupcake cupcakes cupcakes more these please.

[Craig]

Cupcakes fucking chill out because like here's the thing is this is very similar to when they get mad if you say happy holidays yeah instead of saying merry christmas but it's always driven me nuts because happy holidays is not is not erasing christmas yeah it is being inclusive of christmas and other things now some people immediately sit there and they think happy holidays christmas and they also must mean hanukkah maybe they mean tet maybe they mean diwali maybe they mean ramadan they all these other different things that could depending on the way these calendars work fall around the same time right but to me happy holidays is including the entire winter break because in america we view that that time not only as christmas but more importantly it's when school is on break and school is on break for the holidays two of them they're on break for christmas and new year's and so you want something that is you want something that's going to encapsulate both because there's nothing weirder than having a christmas cup in january yeah and so i want something that i can it can it can go over a little bit but i'm not immediately like weirded out by it.

[Pearl Mania]

I think if they were going to do it they should do like like a lemay silver because lemay silver is very new year's eve and it also.

[Craig]

Like the ball but also it has that like silver like an old christmas.

[Pearl Mania]

One yeah silver and gold but and.

[Craig]

It would probably be cheaper than putting a four paragraph quote on it definitely.

[Pearl Mania]

Yeah anyway an evangelical internet personality named joshua fierstein made a video suggesting that customers tell baristas that their name was merry christmas so that the baristas are forced to write on the cups and then shout across the room merry christmas oh my god they all do you.

[Craig]

See how this is exactly like the charlie kirk thing yes this is they've been doing the same thing they've been fighting the same war in the same lobby yeah of different places that used to be banks yeah because most of.

[Pearl Mania]

The time chipotle yeah most of the time the only starbucks near us became.

[Craig]

A chipotle that's just how it goes it's just hey if the starbucks there fails they're gonna put something else in.

[Pearl Mania]

There i wish it was something cool.

[Craig]

Though it would be great if we put in something i just i just want i just like independent coffee shops better because you know what is the thing about independent coffee shop you come in there you're like you better say merry christmas the owner literally is like out get the out get the out of here because again this is also just like going back to what the thing with the cup before where they showed up like we don't want no corporate bureaucracy well no if you don't want corporate bureaucracy don't go to starbucks yeah starbucks is built on corporate bureaucracy and wall street and paying shareholder dividends further enough down the line you're buying a cup of coffee there is the ends to someone getting a dividend payment yeah it is not if you go to a small place i don't want to say mom and pop because a lot of times it's single people who are running it with like a small local staff yeah but if you go to one of those places you got a fucking problem the owner will talk to you you want to talk to the owner yeah you're not talking to a ceo yeah you're never talking to.

[Pearl Mania]

A ceo not worried about dividends they're worried about paying for soccer practice if.

[Craig]

You want to talk to a ceo of a big major corporation you got to have mar a lago money okay you gotta have king of england dinner money all right that's how you're gonna fucking talk to it all right because you don't even talk to your fucking state rep you want to talk to the ceo of starbucks get the fuck.

[Pearl Mania]

Out of here so this guy fierstein appears on cnn keeps talking about how starbucks is trying to remove christ out of christmas and then i so i i started opening more tabs because i'm like who is this this guy capitalism.

[Craig]

Removed christ out of christmas by the way that was capitalism yeah that was.

[Pearl Mania]

The mall that was the mall fuck.

[Craig]

Out of here but when they were.

[Pearl Mania]

All running and pushing each other over to get teddy rock spins i do.

[Craig]

Miss i miss those days though i do i do miss a day i miss seeing people people don't fist fight for goods anymore no they will soon.

[Pearl Mania]

Yeah during the famine hey so i opened a bunch of tabs trying to figure out who this joshua fierstein guy is okay and then i realized this is he his whole thing is this this is his shtick right okay he posted a video once where he went to like a bakery in florida and asked them to write an anti gay marriage message on it in twenty fifteen and then when the bakery refused he got on facebook and demanded that people bully the bakery and leave one star reviews like this is his whole thing.

[Craig]

His whole thing is yelp bombs yeah he's a yelp bomber and but also also famously though you're going after like you want an anti gay cake the supreme court actually had a ruling on this yeah you can't be forced to make a gay cake therefore you shouldn't be forced to make an anti gig but we there again we live in a hypocritical fascistic times where laws don't matter for anything except for what the.

[Pearl Mania]

President is the most frustrating part it.

[Craig]

Is the tab i wish you would.

[Pearl Mania]

Close yeah the one thing is that he did have to remove that video and stated he only done it as part of a social experiment on religious.

[Craig]

Freedom oh there we go when the.

[Pearl Mania]

Bakery almost got shut down it was just like a social experiment on my.

[Craig]

Religious freedom so basically you're telling me that this guy is libs of tiktok yeah he lives of tiktoking places i'm not saying for you guys to do anything but this school at this address.

[Pearl Mania]

And phone number what's that called stochastic.

[Craig]

Terrorism yeah it is one hundred percent called stochastic terrorism right you did you were so you're you know what i'm glad that after three years things are.

[Pearl Mania]

Starting to seep in yeah name name all of the kardashians okay chloe yep.

[Craig]

Now what are we talking about with this guy rob is the sock mogul yeah rob does he still make socks.

[Pearl Mania]

I don't know what he does who knows him she's like the most famous.

[Craig]

I didn't forget i banished her from my memory what about chris kris jenner yes i know that she's the most honestly when you're like name all the kardashians kris jenner kris jenner and then the rest are doing whatever she wants.

[Pearl Mania]

Yeah i'm every woman that's her inside and she's got that new face on like cassandra moisturize me real fast though.

[Craig]

But this guy what you're describing by the way you were describing marjorie taylor greene on facebook in twenty sixteen twenty.

[Pearl Mania]

Seventeen you're gonna need to elaborate this.

[Craig]

Is exactly the type like marjorie taylor greene famously like chased david hogg parkland survivor like down the street for a facebook live stream like she would just sit there be like y' all we gotta stop this evil thing and she had like a facebook following and she pivoted her facebook following into running for.

[Pearl Mania]

Congress congress do you know that you just started your facebook page i did is this because you're going to pivot.

[Craig]

I am not pivoting please follow alex i have an official permanent five hundred facebook because someone else was posing as me for a very long time and we used to ignore it i didn't care that they were making a lot of money but then i was recently told by my own father yeah hey when did you change your mind on rfk junior and i said what the fuck are you talking about then he showed me his facebook app on his phone where there is my a quote official pearl mania five hundred page was supporting rfk junior maha russell brand and more and i said oh no no no no no no we're gonna deal.

[Pearl Mania]

With this we took it down yeah.

[Craig]

Well we've we're trying to we're in the works of pushing back on it and i've highlighted and reached out to meta reps after paying for meta verified yeah because even though i have a check mark on instagram tick tock and more that does not for some reason translate to facebook because they need the money because they want they don't know they don't need the money they want the money they have enough money to go build data centers all over america that are sucking up all of our precious precious fresh water that they need so they can make a llamas suck each other off or something i don't know tell me about this asshole and.

[Pearl Mania]

His stupid stuff well so he did all that stuff and then you know what he did of course storm the.

[Craig]

Capitol the way the red cup guy stormed the capitol of course he did so there was one day where he.

[Pearl Mania]

Cup equals red hat boom nailed it.

[Craig]

Yep don no you're right you're right.

[Pearl Mania]

You'Re right and then he he did get investigated by the fbi i don't think he got arrested but he got.

[Craig]

Investigated he get investigated because he livestreamed.

[Pearl Mania]

It he did he livestream himself that was a guess and he talked a lot about mike pence being little he called him a little coward a little swamp monster and a little slime ball.

[Craig]

Okay he was he was just doing a little mike pence threatening yeah you know anyway my favorite thing about january six but besides just the vibes yeah they were definitely not definitely not definitely not the ramifications no because there were none but the the vibes because i love how so many of them were like how'd they get me it's like bro you live stream they literally were like we're we're in here right now.

[Pearl Mania]

We'Re doing some crimes yeah here's a.

[Craig]

List of crimes we're going to do now i will never face repercussions about this and then they spent four years facing repercussions and then immediately they're like like i'm free again where's my free.

[Pearl Mania]

Money they keep getting arrested again they do keep getting arrested for the wild because well listen they all went back.

[Craig]

To florida well it's because of you know once you're in it's recidivism oh.

[Pearl Mania]

Yep you're right yep so and he does that and then obviously there were no repercussions like you said so what did he do he ran for state representative in texas oh but fun fact he did get clobbered by the incumbent because he ran as a republican and the incumbent got seventy five percent of the votes and he only got twenty.

[Craig]

Four yeah because i think people don't realize about this especially the low like state rep races especially that truly is about still who you know in real life yeah oftentimes it's once you get to the bigger and bigger ones then the then the social media side might work for you yeah but every time i see somebody who's like a social media firebrand who tries to get involved politically unless they've made deep connections like in the party in local organizing any of those different things people would be like oh that guy is a fucking psycho yeah he's weird i've never seen it before also also sprinkle in a little bit of money on top sending out some flyers yeah and those those mailers do a lot more than your.

[Pearl Mania]

Weirdo facebook yeah because you don't want to read what they wrote on there.

[Craig]

Yeah but also but also if you're having but also if you you know if you have a big instagram or a social media presence that doesn't mean it's in your narrow district it yeah like it has to be very narrowly targeted to your district of like ten or fifteen twenty thousand people like oh yeah you're really oh yeah you're insanely popular okay i know where my analytics are it's philadelphia chicago new york and la so i'm looking at those analytics and i'm like i'm going to go run for pennsylvania i'm not i'm not mate i'm not charting in pittsburgh no i'm not charting in centralia so if i'm going to go run for senate against john fetterman that coward if i'm going to do that i need to go and get deeper into pennsylvania politics in general at a statewide level or if i'm going to do it or a state rep or a state senate at my local county level yeah and these guys just don't do that instead they just show up they act like and then they go like and subscribe like but you better like and subscribe this this video please but they do that in person and then people in regular life are like that guy's weird.

[Pearl Mania]

That guy's a weirdo what was his.

[Craig]

Name again i'm going to vote for.

[Pearl Mania]

Whoever isn't him yeah okay so listen let's jump ahead a little okay twenty nineteen twenty nineteen to twenty twenty one okay let's talk about unionizing again we talked about it a little bit we did but let's get back in you foreshadowed it i am a story writer.

[Craig]

You are you are and you do story reports i do story reports which just for those who watch us on youtube you subscribe to us on the audio side of things and then you can get the wonderful stories that misses p reads books about yeah we do once a month we do once a month she reads a book and then she explains it to me but you can only get it on audio because.

[Pearl Mania]

He doesn't know how to read because you went to public school that's no.

[Craig]

I know how to read living the.

[Pearl Mania]

Script on you you always make a funny catholic school but guess what i know a lot about angels i just.

[Craig]

Took a lot of tylenol and i don't have an attention span okay go.

[Pearl Mania]

Ahead so in twenty nineteen starbucks was found by the nlrb that's the national labor relations board oh yeah that they had illegally retaliated against workers at the philadelphia store who were engaging in attempts to unionize then in twenty twenty one forty nine baristas in buffalo new york announced their intention to file a formation for three unions backed by the workers united and the nlrb so in november that was in august and then so that november starbucks began what some refer to as aggressive union busting campaigns ah they amazon against workers against including mandatory listening sessions which is they got all the staff together in all these meetings and then they had to like listen to the leaders in starbucks talk to them about like how great working at starbucks was and yeah yeah this one guy will westlake a barista at one of the stores said that the meetings quote started off by going around and saying that they wanted me to vote no for the union and then they went back and forth talking about how great all the benefits at starbucks are and if we vote in union we may not have any of those benefits anymore and then they never allowed any feedback that might be considered pro union.

[Craig]

Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah well because there's all these crazy things when it comes to like union organizing of like what is allowed and what's forced and all these different things and with the nlrb you know we have been building a stronger and stronger one we we just went through a very major like big union push over the last few years yeah anyway that was a fun time right we'll talk about that in our history section later because it's it's looking a little opposite right now pretty.

[Pearl Mania]

Cool but anyway you know what else happened at this same like listening sessions they had a speaker come in guess who they had who'd they have former ceo and now i think at this point in time board member or just like trusted person within the company the former ceo schultz howard schultz howard schultz.

[Craig]

Oh because this is after he ran for president yes yeah because in twenty twenty he ran for president he famously spent a whole time being like we need somebody who's a centrist there's a lot of unionizing going around we need somebody who's a centrist there's a very there's a very funny comedian who made a lot of fun of howard schultz by pretending he was very pro is his campaign yeah by constantly showing up with head wounds he got hit in the head he just loves howard schultz yeah but so he shows up and he so this guy who was a who thought he was going to be the democratic nominee yeah came out as.

[Pearl Mania]

Anti union yeah so he shows up at one of these listening sessions listening to talk to the workers these were happening at a buffalo hotel they had rented out like the corporate area oh.

[Craig]

That'S right because it's the forty nine.

[Pearl Mania]

Buffalo gotcha gotcha gotcha and later he's he's going to give a little speech okay okay and this speech was posted on youtube on the starbucks corporate account but it got removed and i'll tell you why schultz presented to workers the case against unionizing okay included using his jewish heritage and the holocaust to describe the company's mission saying that they were trying to quote share their blanket with employees referring to holocaust prisoners in poland that had used the survival tactic of sharing limited resources like blankets with each other the narrative was of course met with widespread criticism.

[Craig]

Bro what bro what they're like we want a little more money and better health care and he's like bro the holocaust yeah what yeah bro what i gotta take a break we're gonna take a break a break.

[Pearl Mania]

We'Ll come back we'll talk about something oh my god more chill more chill that's a lie the next thing on my list is israel why.

[Craig]

And we are now going to somehow pivot from the holocaust to israel while discussing starbucks.

[Pearl Mania]

Coffee yeah okay okay so here's we have to talk about this okay because there is a current boycott on starbucks.

[Craig]

Happening right now there has been for.

[Pearl Mania]

About two years yes yes and so but when i opened i was talking about how conservatives are going to starbucks to go get their watered down honey.

[Craig]

Mint tea yeah in a boycott in.

[Pearl Mania]

A in a boycott but the other side of the political spectrum is currently boycotting as part of an anti genocide activism right yes so i wanted to look into how that started real quick.

[Craig]

Real quick i think we shouldn't call it boycotts they should call it girl cots because if boycott is not getting something then you do the opposite and that's a girl cot because i would.

[Pearl Mania]

I would love to is this about me going to home goods is that what this is about about going to.

[Craig]

Home goods just getting a little thing that's a little nice for you nice.

[Pearl Mania]

Little things nice little thing a nice.

[Craig]

Scented candle no but i also just want to look at conservative in the eye be like oh you're doing a girl cot and just have them be like i'm not a girl that would work okay also i'm trying to bring levity in between the holocaust and israel okay that's what i'm trying to do.

[Pearl Mania]

Right now you think gender politics is levity is this a joke to you.

[Craig]

Okay well we're at the end of the we're near we're getting near the end of the episode over here so i'm getting a little bit loopy so.

[Pearl Mania]

Okay here's what's happening yeah now there are no starbucks stores in israel there haven't been any since two thousand three.

[Craig]

Okay there's so there's none and that's.

[Pearl Mania]

One thing we need to know are.

[Craig]

There any in gaza or the west.

[Pearl Mania]

Bank no okay okay so a conspiracy theory exploded though about starbucks in two thousand six six when a fake letter allegedly written by the ceo and founder of starbucks schultz was thanking guests for supporting the company's supporting the company financially because the company was actively supporting the state of israel and so this letter went viral on the internet and people were like oh my god fuck starbucks blah blah blah but it turned out it was a satirical letter written by andrew winkler the jewish editor of an anti zionist website called ziopedia got it so this is the first like flag in the ground right because i was like where did this start when i was looking it up but then in twenty twenty three there was another call to boycott starbucks because so okay it's kind of weird because it of kind the starbucks workers united group the coalition the union that's yeah but the starbucks workers united is a coalition of twelve thousand baristas who work to help unionize starbucks stores across the country okay they're not just a union they're they're more than that but the starbucks workers united they have a social media page right and their social media logo looks very similar to the starbucks logo okay got.

[Craig]

It because they are starbucks workers so they want something that's going so it's.

[Pearl Mania]

Got green it's got the white cup it kind of looks like it but it's not right yeah so on october ninth the starbucks workers united social media page reposted an image that was solidarity.

[Craig]

With palestine got it so they posted that on october ninth yes twenty twenty three after after october seventh all right got it just to get the timeline.

[Pearl Mania]

Straight yeah and so the post was removed shortly after that because starbucks the actual starbucks was like you need to take this down we're receiving thousands and thousands of complaints and threats against employees from customers who believe that starbucks just endorsed this message and starbucks was saying that that message was a message of.

[Craig]

Terrorism so the word solidary with palestine from starbucks union workers yes was what triggered triggered not harassment what's the word i'm looking for feedback pushback and then starbucks said by doing this people think that starbucks is supporting terrorism yes basically.

[Pearl Mania]

Okay and so they're like we're getting all these threats and they what they really wanted was for the union to stop using a logo that looked like.

[Craig]

Theirs ah there it is there it.

[Pearl Mania]

Is there it is so they they sued them for trademark infringement starbucks sued the union yes okay to get them to change the logo because their whole thing is like if your logo didn't look like ours people wouldn't have thought.

[Craig]

We posted that got it okay right.

[Pearl Mania]

The union refused to stop using the company name and the similar logo and starbucks workers united united countersued starbucks alleging that the company had defamed it by implying that it supported terrorism yes huh okay and this is where consumer boycotts.

[Craig]

Start got it yeah so so the consumer boycott is actually was began because we watched it kind of spiral from there yeah it's become kind of a greater thing but it began around solidarity with the union and the union was having solidarity with palestine yes and starbucks was using this moment that they could weaponize as attack against the union organizers yeah because they as you know there's only limited resources so you have limited resources of things you can deal with whether or not you're supporting the employees and the general unionization efforts or you're in court filing a copyright challenge yeah and so starbucks is like oh this is great i can also make the unions look like that they're in the media's view and in the general public's view like they're supporting something that the general public wouldn't or be or make them afraid of that yeah right even though we've now seen such huge shifts when it comes to the public especially around palestine especially around the people of gaza and the genocide that's been happening.

[Pearl Mania]

There yeah so the consumer boycott starts and the company reportedly lost eleven billion dollars in market value as a partial result of the boycotts and i saw.

[Craig]

I saw so many different people who were like trying to figure out how to get rid of a lot of people had like on the starbucks app because you've talked about this with dunkin donuts and others where you want they want us to preload money no and they want us to get stuff already on there and then that's money that they can borrow against kind of they can have it set to the side it's a liability but it's also an asset at the same exact time because they know it'll be eventually spent a lot of people who used to get starbucks gift cards would tell their parents stop giving me starbucks gift cards i'm going to go find a different cafe yeah and all those different things and what's what's wild is this amount of money that they lost has not really moved starbucks to do much more than put things on their website trying to counter messaging yeah because before we recorded this episode when you told me about this i was like well when was because i i had thought like maybe this dunkin donuts have you know location.

[Pearl Mania]

Pointed over there because there's absolutely a.

[Craig]

Dunkin donuts yes there's we don't have a there isn't a local independent coffee shop near us that we can hit at the same time i wish there was but like dunkin' donuts last year had a controversy actually what was it they had a franchise that made donuts with the star david on them and the franchisee said we stand with israel and dunkin donuts corporate had to be like that is a franchisee decision yeah the same way mcdonald's has had issues.

[Pearl Mania]

As well because the franchisee that had.

[Craig]

Trump serve french fries but also mcdonald's has locations in israel oh and the mcdonald's locations in israel gave free meals.

[Pearl Mania]

To the idf oh see i'm not boycotting mcdonald's because i've never really eaten.

[Craig]

Because you have celiacs you can't eat.

[Pearl Mania]

Anything and there's nothing you gluten in the french fries yes it's a potato why would you need to add gluten.

[Craig]

To it because i got to put a little pinch of something terrible in there but in general with all of with all of this stuff we've had this ongoing boycott that's why i find that starbucks in general has been such a battleground with this and the reason the conservatives keep giving them more money yeah has been an issue with it and we're not telling you to go to starbucks i'm just saying look at look at the tactics look at how things are happening right now right now you have one group who's going there and loudly giving them money and making sure that you know that their group is supporting them financially then you have another side of things where like we don't fuck with you whatsoever yeah and so it's like which one is going to go i think a lot about subaru i do because the reason why subarus and gay people have been interlocked for so long was a marketing choice by subaru yeah subaru chose to do ads with gay couples they're incredible by.

[Pearl Mania]

The way yes look up the original subaru ads from the nineties right where they they it was very lesbian culture and i love them it's just like the two bumper stickers it's like the the kayaks it's it's so cute it's so subtle yeah but love it but.

[Craig]

The thing is is is in all of this and we've been kind of talking about this throughout the entire show it's a been about market share as starbucks has gotten bigger and actually right now smaller because they're about to close i think on a bunch of hundred stores across america and lay off thousands of employees in a big restructuring as this has gone on they have been reaching to a wider and wider and wider audience so they are trying to be less offensive less targeted and less coded to any one group so in twenty twelve they cared about they wanted to make sure that libs who should be going to independent coffee shops and having conversations with strangers they wanted to make sure that those libs would still go over to their stores they wanted to make sure that in the blue dot cities in red states yeah they would be just as comfortable going there as people in austin texas keep austin weird right back in the day you went there it was a lot of independent stuff and then slowly it became all corporatized slowly things turned into strip malls and slowly those strip malls are then getting hollowed out from the inside we're seeing this happen across the country and these types of in these types of ways but it's also really really really financially co opted our third spaces to a point where people don't feel comfortable yeah to go sit in a starbucks for four hours it's not designed it's purposely designed like an airport an.

[Pearl Mania]

Airport lobby it reminds me of the what what is it called when they have the benches that aren't comfortable oh.

[Craig]

Yeah it's that type of architecture yeah it's something but the ant it's anti homeless design homeless design it's that same sort of way that the way they design the booth the way they design these different things they want the aesthetic of inviting people but they want the push back when you actually start using things to not want to be hostile.

[Pearl Mania]

Architecture hostile that's what it feels like in there it's like i i know like the chairs are okay it's like it's all spaced out whatever but it there's just something like leave but there's.

[Craig]

Also that exactly they're using hostile architecture while marketing inclusion yeah and you can't have both no you can't you either are solely like that's the thing i always think back when i think back to atlantic city when i was a young man i had friends of mine who really got into texas hold' em poker okay all right they were super into texas holding poker it was two thousand seven shut the fuck up i'm gonna tell you where it's gonna go we went to two casinos one was the borgata brand new casino right and the borgata was very much oh my god every hour on the hour we have a a chinese new year's parade with a dragon and everything was about you you you we love you money money money money money oh my god you're so everything's about how you're so special and we love you and all these different things and i hated it yeah it was the worst experience of my life because i knew they were lying to my face i knew they were pretending to give a about me and then i went down the street to the sands casino which is now i believe now it's is gone it's not even there i walked into the sands and i i like walked in i'm kind of standing there looking around trying to figure out what i'm going to do and one of the security guards walked up to me goes do you have money and i said what he goes are you gonna gamble or are you gonna fucking stand there do you have money or are you just here looking for a free ride and i was like huh and he then he's like no they turn they grabbed like a homeless guy like pushed him out and i was like oh this place is honest they're just like we don't put your money on the table lose it get the fuck out yeah goodbye and i was like that's that's honest and that's been my issue with starbucks for one of many issues but a big issue i've had with them for a very long time yeah has been the fakeness of it on top of the fact that they are a corporate bureaucracy whose end goal is to transfer money from our pockets eventually to a end line investor somewhere connected to wall street yeah that's their end goal it's not like an independent coffee shop in your neighborhood whose goal is yes to make money but also to be a meeting place also to be a place for poetry and open mics and a place and art on the wall a cool art of local artists and of having local roasted coffee and maybe they secretly sell lucy's on the side and maybe they let a young comedian get up on stage and host their open mic for a few years so he gets a little bit better at his craft so eventually he ends up in the back room of a bar across from a dilapidated prison where he meets some crazy bitch sitting in the front row and then eventually he screams into his phone until he gets invited to the white house and then slowly pivots that into a podcast and hunter biden tells him he's a special boy.

[Pearl Mania]

We'Re not getting invited back to that white house though that was the one.

[Craig]

And only thing oh baby we're getting invited to a camp well misses p that was an amazing episode i had.

[Pearl Mania]

A fun time it was a really weird journey okay i want to be i want you to know that i started at like they wrote loser on my cup and then ended up all the way back in the early aughts learning a lot about a lot of.

[Craig]

Weird stuff yeah it was definitely it was definitely experience you also took me kind of through like a little time machine yeah you know what i mean.

[Pearl Mania]

Remembered when we were young and baristas.

[Craig]

Remember that song we were young and i set the world on fire anyway do you listen to the podcast how.

[Pearl Mania]

Old you are that song is so.

[Craig]

Old shut up that song is new it's still in the hot one hundred anyway please you know give us five stars wherever you listen to you're listening.

[Pearl Mania]

To us on audio please give us five stars leave a nice review yep check out our patreon to see all the extra content we put over there.

[Craig]

Five hundred net we want to thank all of our supporters everybody who ever listens to us and more and we'll be back with you for another episode that we release every sunday at noon too many frauds and too many scammers that we wish weren't real too many cons and too many spammers and we're starting to feel like we've got too many times open it too many times remember to smile.