The Food Pyramid Scheme | Too Many Tabs Podcast

Summary

Too Many Tabs with Pearlmania500
Episode: The Food Pyramid Scheme
Release Date: November 24, 2024

---

Introduction

In this episode of Too Many Tabs with Pearlmania500, hosts Pearlmania500 (Host 1) and her spouse (Host 2) delve deep into the intricate history and controversies surrounding the Food Pyramid, a longstanding symbol of American dietary guidelines. Through engaging discussions, personal anecdotes, and thorough research, the duo unpacks how various lobbying groups have influenced nutritional policies over the decades, leading to the eventual rebranding of the pyramid into MyPlate.

---

Historical Background of Dietary Guidelines

The conversation kicks off with the origins of dietary guidance in the United States. Host 2 references the 1894 USDA publication by Wilbur Allen Atwater, which laid the foundational framework for understanding macronutrients and their role in human health.

Host 2: "Wilbur Allen Atwater's research on food composition and nutritional needs set the stage for the development of a food guide."
[14:39]

Moving forward, Host 1 reminisces about the early 20th-century dietary guides, particularly the 1916 USDA publication titled Food for Young Children. This guide categorized food into five groups: milk and meat, cereals, vegetables and fruit, fats and fatty foods, and sugar—an organization that would later face significant pushback.

---

Lobbying Influence on Nutritional Policies

A significant portion of the episode focuses on how meat, dairy, and egg industries exerted pressure on the USDA to shape dietary recommendations favorably towards their products. The hosts emphasize that this influence often led to the dilution or alteration of nutritional guidelines.

Host 2: "The reversal of the pyramid highlights the dual role of the Agricultural Department, the federal agency in charge of educating the public about nutrition, as well as the agency representing the food industries."
[46:14]

Host 1 shares insights from Dr. Marion Nestle, a renowned nutritionist, highlighting how lobbying groups have historically manipulated dietary guidelines to safeguard their economic interests.

Host 2: "A National Cattlemen's association representative lobbyist... the term, 'decrease with respect to meat consumption' should be considered, 'a bad word.'"
[38:23]

---

Development and Challenges of the Food Pyramid

By the 1980s, the USDA aimed to create a more visually intuitive guide—the Food Pyramid—to convey the principles of variety, proportionality, and moderation in diets. However, as Host 2 explains, meat and dairy lobbyists were adamant about the placement and recommendations within the pyramid, leading to significant revisions and delays.

Host 2: "In 1980, the USDA puts out a publication called Food the Hassle Free Guide to a Better Diet, emphasizing reduced fat intake and placing grains at the base."
[32:00]

The hosts discuss the 1992 release of the Food Pyramid, which was heavily influenced by industry stakeholders, thereby compromising its integrity and effectiveness as a public health tool.

---

Transition to MyPlate

Fast forward to 2011, the USDA introduced MyPlate, a revamped version of the Food Pyramid designed to resonate better with millennials and the modern lifestyle. Host 1 critiques the design and color choices of MyPlate, suggesting that it lacks the clear hierarchical guidance that the pyramid once offered.

Host 2: "MyPlate doesn't show that whole grains are better for you than refined rapidly digested grains... it doesn't give any guidance that eating more unsaturated fats and omega threes is good for health."
[62:33]

In contrast, Host 2 mentions Harvard's Healthy Eating Plate as a more scientifically grounded alternative, free from industry lobbying influences.

---

Modern Implications and Criticisms

The episode underscores ongoing skepticism regarding government dietary guidelines, pointing out instances where misinformation and lobbying continue to shape public perception and nutritional advice. The hosts draw parallels between historical lobbying efforts and contemporary issues, such as Coca-Cola's influence on obesity research and public health policies.

Host 1: "Coca Cola funded a nonprofit to do research to try to prove that sodas and bad diets don't cause obesity."
[70:51]

They also touch upon the evolution of the term "special interest groups," noting its shift from primarily referring to industry lobbyists to encompassing a broader range of advocacy groups, thereby diluting its original intent.

---

Conclusion

In wrapping up, Pearlmania500 and her co-host reflect on the pervasive impact of corporate lobbying on nutritional guidelines and the challenges in establishing unbiased, scientifically sound dietary recommendations. They advocate for increased transparency and integrity within governmental health agencies to ensure that public health remains a priority over industry profits.

Host 2: "The Harvard School of Public Health launched the Healthy Eating Plate, which was aimed to correct what Harvard deemed key flaws in MyPlate."
[65:01]

The episode serves as a critical examination of the Food Pyramid Scheme, urging listeners to remain informed and discerning about the sources and motivations behind dietary guidelines.

---

Notable Quotes

• Host 2: "The reversal of the pyramid highlights the dual role of the Agricultural Department..."
  [46:14]

• Host 2: "The term, 'decrease with respect to meat consumption' should be considered, 'a bad word.'"
  [38:23]

• Host 1: "Coca Cola funded a nonprofit to do research to try to prove that sodas and bad diets don't cause obesity."
  [70:51]

---

Closing Remarks

Pearlmania500 and her co-host concluded the episode with a call to action for listeners to stay vigilant and question the integrity of nutritional guidelines. They encouraged audience engagement through reviews and participation in their Patreon community, emphasizing the importance of informed and critical consumption of dietary advice.

---

Note: This summary excludes all advertisements and non-content-related segments to focus solely on the informative aspects of the episode.

Transcript

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[Host 1]

Welcome to Too Many Tabs, a podcast where a husband and wife sit across from each other in a country that's slowly falling apart. Come on.

[Host 2]

Come on.

[Host 1]

What? Be nice at the beginning. Yes.

[Host 2]

Okay, we're not gonna do this today. We're gonna. We're gonna have good vibes.

[Host 1]

Good vibes. Yeah. Okay, well, then let's have some good vibes, because you have done a lot of research on a topic, and then you bring that research back to me.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And then you open up all the individual tabs that you did during that research, and then you slowly close them as you go. And talk about this, I have seven.

[Host 2]

Tabs open right now.

[Host 1]

Seven tabs open right now. You know how many tabs that is, Mrs. P? How many that is? Too many tabs, too many frauds and too many scammers that we wish weren't real. Too many cons and too many spammers, and we're starting to feel like we've got too many tabs. Open it. Too many tabs. Remember to smile. We're back for another episode, and this is what, a week of episodes?

[Host 2]

Oh, my God, we are crushing it.

[Host 1]

Let me tell you, when it comes.

[Host 2]

To podcasting, we are podcasters.

[Host 1]

We are podcasters. For those of y'all out there who don't know on our Patreon, Mrs. P. This is her favorite. Mrs. Pearl Mania's absolute favorite time of year.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

November is the best. November is the Thursday of the calendar.

[Host 1]

That is true. That is very true. And Thursday is the best day of the week if it is in the weekend.

[Guest]

Yes.

[Host 1]

So with that being said, I think.

[Host 2]

Thursdays are better than the weekend, because the weekend, when you go do stuff, everybody's out. So many people. If I go to the mall on a Thursday, if I go to the grocery store on a Thursday, lovely experience.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

I go to the mall or grocery store on a Saturday, end it all gotcha.

[Host 1]

No, that's true. Yeah. No, it is. You're right. No, you're right. You're completely right. But what I will say though is that speaking of Thursdays, Thanksgiving is coming up, which is why we just shared on our Patreon, we shared your deviled egg recipe.

[Host 2]

Yes.

[Host 1]

And this was one that your grandmother inspired.

[Guest]

Yep.

[Host 1]

And so we are sharing it two different ways.

[Host 2]

Yes.

[Host 1]

For everyone. You can go to Pearlmania500.net and they can get the PDF.

[Guest]

Yep.

[Host 2]

Print it out.

[Host 1]

It's right there.

[Host 2]

Laminate it so it doesn't get any stuff on it.

[Host 1]

It's completely. That's free.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

However, we also did a special bonus. A bonus episode, which is we recorded a podcast that is only available on Patreon through the Patreon app. That is you going step by step through the recipe to me. And that podcast is called Vibing out with the Food Moron. Now, we need to explain that I don't understand how to cook. I have no concept of cooking. I'm bad at cooking if it isn't in a can that you just pour and then heat or. No.

[Host 2]

Also, you're good at the macaroni in the cup where you just add the hot water.

[Host 1]

I was about to say microwaving. When it came to. There were steps in here, like how to boil an egg.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

How to make a hard boiled egg. How to remove the shell properly. A difference between a whisk and a food processor.

[Host 2]

Yep.

[Host 1]

There's so many things. And I want to let you guys know, it was a really fun episode to make.

[Host 2]

Yeah, it was fun.

[Host 1]

I'm sure it's fun to listen to because I feel like I tried to cover every dumb question possible.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And you were actually shocked.

[Host 2]

This thing is a dumb question.

[Host 1]

I know. Exactly. And that's the reason why I want to make people not feel embarrassed. Because sometimes, you know when the. You have like a presentation and someone's like, is there any questions? And everyone's like, well, I don't want to be the one. And I'll be. I'm always like, I'll be the one. I have a question. How many eggs is this? And you're like, it says on the paper. I'm like, well, you gotta say it out loud. I am an audio. I'm an audio learner. So that podcast, audio only, is available on our. On the Patreon app.

[Host 2]

And I think it'd be really fun if you were in the kitchen and you were getting all the stuff and listening while you're making the deviled eggs.

[Host 1]

Yes, 100%. And it's. And we released it on Thursday, a week before.

[Host 2]

Yeah, I made sure that we schedul for the Thursday. So there's exactly one week before Thanksgiving.

[Host 1]

Y.

[Host 2]

So theoretically you can get two pass. You can get a pass or two in Y. You can get the ingredients and then you can do make one first round. Just make three eggs in the first round. Cuz three whole eggs is six deviled eggs. Bs that's great.

[Host 1]

And we said repeatedly during the entire thing. This is a trial and error process. And Mrs. P. Is really great during this entire explanation. And the reason why we wanted to remind you guys, let you guys all know that is because this whole month has been about food.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

I don't know if you guys.

[Host 2]

I'm on my shit. You know, I love a theme.

[Host 1]

You love a theme. You love a theme month. And we're gonna cover today. The food pyramid.

[Host 2]

Yes.

[Host 1]

And soon, very soon. I'm getting very close to the end of it. We're all gonna eat together.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And what are we gonna eat? We're gonna eat Horny Fairy 3. That's right. It is imminent.

[Host 2]

It's happening.

[Host 1]

It's gonna happen very soon.

[Host 2]

Can I say what we're aiming for?

[Host 1]

Sure. What are we aiming for?

[Host 2]

The goal is. So this episode is dropping on Sunday before Thanksgiving.

[Host 1]

Yes.

[Host 2]

Right. We are going to record again before Thanksgiving.

[Host 1]

Yes.

[Host 2]

And we are going to record this Horny Fairy book because we want you to have this episode to listen to if you're driving home, if you're. If you're sitting in the den and your family's being full of bullshit.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

You can put your earbuds in.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Listen to our episode.

[Host 1]

But here's.

[Host 2]

I want to have this out to help people in what could be a stressful time. If your Thanksgiving isn't something you really are a fond of.

[Host 1]

Yeah. And. And listen, if it doesn't happen, there's two old episodes we're gonna try. No, we're really. We're really, really trying. We're really, really, really trying. But every time I start getting into it, it's the worst book I've ever read. And then life happens and the baby screams and all this other different stuff. So I am close. I'm getting very, very, very close. And I want to make sure she said they don't. Okay. I need you to understand that every time they can't figure out what to do with the plot, they finger each other. Okay. That's how this book goes. Now, with that being said, we might have just gotten demonetized on YouTube for me saying that. No, I'm kidding. With that being said, though, we have a barn burner of an episode for you with a lot of fun things and a lot of sponsorships. So if you don't want to hear any of those, join [e-mail] for all of our ad free shows and all the other free bonus content that you get with your membership. Now, now, Mrs. P. Anything else you want to say before we go?

[Host 2]

No. Let's go.

[Host 1]

Let's go.

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[Host 1]

I am so excited for this month's sponsorship from Delete me. Yes, DeleteMe is a subscription service that helps you protect your private data. Because everyone on the Internet is just dropping private data everywhere they surf. It's imagine if you were to go surf on the ocean and and your pockets were just full of things like your home address, your mother's maiden name and other information. These are the type of things that you're dropping all over the Internet. And there's people called data brokers who run around and they gobble it up. They package it together in a file and that file is available for anyone to purchase. But Delete Me helps you opt out of having your information sold by these data brokers. Which is why we have a special offer for all of our listeners. For too many tabs today, you can take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Deleteme now at a special discount for our listeners. You can get 20% off your Delete Me plan when you join DeleteMe.com PearlMania 20 and use promo code PearlMania 20 at checkout. The only way to get this 20% off is to go to JoinDeleteMe.com PerlMania 20 and enter PerlMania 20 at checkout. This is a process I've gone through. It is a subscription service they give you a dashboard and they show you all the different places that they're opting you out and they're saving you time and potentially money in the long run. So again, to get that 20% off, that's JoinDeleteMe.com PearlMania20. Code word PearlMania20.

[Host 2]

We're back.

[Host 1]

We're back.

[Host 2]

We're ready.

[Host 1]

We're here.

[Host 2]

We're gonna learn more about food.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

A month of food.

[Host 1]

I know, I know.

[Host 2]

Best month.

[Host 1]

I'm really excited because the last episode we did about food fortification and GMOs.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And before that was cheesecake, and before.

[Host 1]

That was cheese caves. But the food fortification, when we had some people reach out who worked in food sciences and stuff like that and said, thank you for not being weird about it.

[Host 2]

Thanks. We tried really hard. Because again, there's so much nuance and gray area and misinformation.

[Host 1]

And misinformation.

[Host 2]

Exactly. And so it's. It's hard to have those conversations, but I want to have them.

[Host 1]

Yeah. And, you know, honestly, guys, just remember we're doing our own research, and we're just asking questions. We're just asking questions.

[Host 2]

We're doing our own research, and we're not scientists. Yeah.

[Host 1]

We're just. We're just two people, which is Two people, which is. I want you to remember that about most of the Internet.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Not all people. Just. We're just people. All right.

[Host 2]

Okay. So listen, I want to talk to you about the food pyramid and Very famous. The food pyramid. We grew up with it.

[Host 1]

Yeah. I grew up with it.

[Host 2]

And then now it's called my plate. And I don't know if you know that.

[Host 1]

I don't know that because I. Listen, the last time I saw a food pyramid. School nurses office.

[Guest]

Yep.

[Host 1]

On the wall. And I just remember being like, that's a lot of grain at the bottom.

[Guest]

Yep.

[Host 1]

And then the very top was sugar, I think.

[Host 2]

Oils and fats, I believe.

[Host 1]

Okay. I just remember seeing that. And I just remember as a kid being like, that's too much bread.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

So what? You're right. I looked at it. The top of the pyramid is fat, oils, and sweets.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

The next tier down is milk, yogurt, and cheese group. And next to the milk, yogurt, and cheese group is meat, poultry, fish, beans, eggs, and nuts.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

Right below that we have veggie group. And next to that, fruit. And at the very bottom, bread, cereal, rice, and pasta.

[Host 1]

Yeah. And so. So it was. It was a weird cut because the middles are all cut in half.

[Guest]

Yes.

[Host 1]

They're like, yeah, these are equal. Like, a vegetable is the same as a fruit.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Like you. It was. I always hated the food. I just remember thinking like, that. That can't be right.

[Host 2]

Well, I've got. I want to talk about it because, again, I also grew up with the nurse's office where you had the food pyramid and was, like, taught. I. I don't know if you. I don't think you had this. So when I was in school, Catholic school. Catholic school.

[Host 1]

Philadelphia Catholic school.

[Host 2]

Catholic school. I had home EC classes. I went to all girls Catholic school.

[Host 1]

No, I had home ec. I had home EC in middle school. So. So what they had for us is they split home ec. And. What's the other one? Wood shop.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

So we had, like. But I was in the middle of a changing time.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

So, like, Home EC was like, like, very, very basic cooking. Like how to boil pasta.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And then they were like. There was, I think there was, like, one day where they started to teach us how to balance a checkbook. And then somebody walked in. Like, people have debit cards now. And then they just cut that. They cut that lesson in front of us.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And then the other side of it.

[Host 2]

They didn't teach you what to write in the memo. Huh?

[Host 1]

They did not. They did not te. And then on the opposite side of it, for when it came to. Not Home ec, but it was like the wood shop and metal shop, it was, you know, that type of, like, handicraft stuff.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

That changed.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

And then when I was in, like, six, seventh grade, they're like, you're going to do wood shop in sixth grade, seventh grade, you're going to do metal work. And then. But, like, halfway through seventh grade, like, it's robots now. I was like, what? And then in eighth grade, like, it's computers now, and, like, I watched the metal shop teacher have to, like, teach us how to do an Excel spreadsheet.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And I was like, what is happening here?

[Host 2]

This guy done that.

[Host 1]

This guy's out of his depth.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And then, like, it was. Teachers were retiring because, again, we're a very transitional year. We weren't allowed to use Wikipedia in any of our sources. We weren't allowed to use the Internet.

[Host 2]

On this podcast, we'd be using Wikipedia. I'd be following them links.

[Host 1]

Yeah. But on top of that, though, in general, like, in life, we were taught, like, you can't trust anything on the Internet.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And so because of that, we're always a little bit hesitant about it.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

So we'll look at something on the Internet, and then we go, like, okay, well, let me go find a source. Let me go fucking look at the resource.

[Host 2]

Um, but the people in front of us didn't get that lesson.

[Host 1]

Yeah, the people on either. On end of us didn't get it.

[Host 2]

But, yeah, no, it sucks that all the. The good, useful skills weren't taught in schools. And then we learned, like, sell spreadsheets.

[Host 1]

Yeah, no, exactly. They're like, this is how you become a good drone.

[Host 2]

In home ec, we learned cooking and sewing.

[Host 1]

Oh, you had a little bit of sewing.

[Host 2]

I had sewing. I remember making a lot of. So I remember sewing a lot of clothes.

[Host 1]

I made a whale pillow.

[Host 2]

That sounds cute. I made boxers.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

And pajama pants.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

And I remember we made little stuffed animals. And at the time. I still love them. I was in high school, I was obsessed with the little Scottish terriers, the little black dogs.

[Host 1]

Yeah, I know.

[Host 2]

And I made. I made little Scottish terrier stuffed animals, which is very fun because you have to sew them inside out.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And then you pop them through and foam stuff, and they're very cute.

[Host 1]

I. I didn't mind.

[Host 2]

Still love those dogs.

[Host 1]

I didn't mind sewing so much. I hated sewing machines because every time the thread fell out of the sewing machine needle, it was. I could. I never figured out the right technique.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

To get it in. And it was, like, once it was good. Like, so I had a kid in that class. I think it was seventh grade.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

His name was Anthony. Anthony could get the string in easy. He was right in. And I was like, okay. As long as Anthony was there, I had a good class.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

But. Yeah, you.

[Host 2]

What? You would be on RuPaul's Drag Race and. And be, like, trying to find the drag queen that knows how to sew. And while you have a hot glue gun.

[Host 1]

Yes, 100%. Because I think, listen, I like being creative. I like making stuff, but if there's a part of it that is difficult, that one step might just shut me down. So. Okay.

[Host 2]

Okay. So in order to talk about the food pyramid, we have to go a little bit ahead of what moment's gonna start to 1894, way prior to when the table was invented.

[Host 1]

Okay, so that's a very long time ago.

[Host 2]

Yeah, super long time ago. Okay, so in 1894 was when the first dietary guidance was published by the usda, United States Department of Agriculture.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

And it was a farmer's bulletin written by Wilbur Allen Atwater. No relation.

[Host 1]

No relation to Lee Atwater. Okay, good.

[Host 2]

Checked.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

As soon as I saw the name, I was like, let me check.

[Host 1]

And if those of you guys don't know who Lee Atwater is, you should.

[Host 2]

Do a fucking episode.

[Host 1]

Listen. Just one of the worst people to ever live. Yeah, he caused a lot of issues. Glad he's dead.

[Host 2]

Cheers. Yeah. Sir. So Wilbur Allen Atwater, no relation, served as the agency's first director of the Office of Experiment Stations. Atwater suggested diets for American men based on protein, carbohydrates, fat, and, quote, mineral matter. Because according to the usda, specific minerals and vitamins had not been identified yet at that time.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

So they knew that we needed mineral matter, but they didn't have the terminology at the time yet.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Okay. So it sounds like he's saying eat rocks, but in reality he's saying that certain minerals and stuff like that gets pulled into vegetables. They get pulled into stuff. So we're talking about, like, vitamin E.

[Host 2]

The way that mineral water has minerals in it. Or if you cook in a cast iron skillet, you get iron from it.

[Host 1]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

So Atwood's research on food composition and nutritional needs set the stage for the development of a food guide.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

Um, a food guide translates nutrient intake and which foods together provide a nutritionally satisfactorial diet.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Host 2]

So, like, this is. This idea Atwater's getting together, and he's, like, conceptualizing this framework. And nobody had done this before in America.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

Of like, hey, we need to eat spinach and potatoes and protein. And maybe you need to get minerals because they seem to be useful.

[Host 1]

Okay. So the fact that's wild, though, went to 1894.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Before it was just like, what do we got?

[Host 2]

Put that lead in the bread.

[Host 1]

Yeah, well, Jesus. But, yeah, coming back. No, no, but I'm saying in general, it was like you just kind of ate what you had.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Instead of trying to put together a plate to, like, he's kind of. He's trying to maximize the stats.

[Host 2]

Exactly.

[Host 1]

Other people were like, oh, yeah, you just put together. You just roll.

[Host 2]

Yeah, whatever you got.

[Host 1]

Yeah, whatever you got. Roll the dice.

[Host 2]

What's running around the floor?

[Host 1]

Instead he was like, no, no, no, no. You need to have some spinach next to that. Yeah, you get some spinach. You get some red meat.

[Host 2]

You eat a carrot, guys. Yeah. So the first official USDA food guide was. The title was Food for Young Children was released in 1916. In this guide, nutritionist Carolyn Hunt characterized food into five groups. Milk and meat, cereals, vegetables and fruit, fat and fatty foods and sugar. And sugary foods. These are her food groups.

[Host 1]

Those are. That is the craziest food groups. Okay, let's go down them again. So first thing, milk and meat.

[Host 2]

Milk and meat.

[Host 1]

Off the fucking bat. We're not kosher. Like, you can tell that this is like some like, Iowa German shit, like right here. Because immediately it's like, milk and meat's the same. You're like. No, it's really. Wow.

[Host 2]

Milk and meat.

[Host 1]

I've only ever heard that from vegans.

[Host 2]

Like milk and meat.

[Host 1]

Milk and meat is its own. Okay.

[Host 2]

Cereals.

[Host 1]

Just cereals.

[Host 2]

Just cereals. Now I'm saying it's probably not Lucky Charms. It's oatmeal. It's a hot buckwheat. Another huge.

[Host 1]

Yeah, it probably also means grains.

[Host 2]

Yeah, exactly. Cereal grains.

[Host 1]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

Cream of wheat, things like that. So that's what we're talking about. Cereals. Okay. Vegetables and fruits again. Sequester again.

[Host 1]

They just lump them together. Just. It grows out of the dirt and it's not a grass.

[Host 2]

Don't get me started on the word vegetables and produce.

[Host 1]

Okay?

[Host 2]

Because, you know, I know it doesn't mean anything.

[Host 1]

You'll get into a whole thing.

[Host 2]

Fats and fatty foods. So funny. They're like oil, but also pork skin, I guess. I don't know what the fatty foods.

[Host 1]

But it's like fats and fatty foods. But you have milk and meat, like, right up there. Okay.

[Host 2]

So according to USDA, in 1917, a new food guide targeted to the general public was issued called how to Select Foods. It was based on the five food groups characterized by hunt. So again, they. They create one for everybody using the same exact ideals. Then in 1921, another guide was released that suggested the amounts of food to purchase each week for the average American family, and then was modified again in 1924 to include households that were different than the average household, which was five members.

[Host 1]

Oh, spy back.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

So then it was five members in a household.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And so they had to change it to modify it so that it wasn't just based on a five person household.

[Host 1]

Because people couldn't do fractions.

[Host 2]

They couldn't do fractions.

[Host 1]

I'm going to assume that's what it was because it was. People couldn't do fractions. I do. You blew my mind, though, that the average household was. I mean, it would make sense, Right? You have mom, dad.

[Guest]

Yep.

[Host 1]

Maybe 2.5 kids. A half kid doesn't. Yeah, maybe grandma. That's what I'm saying is like, there's probably an older parent There.

[Host 2]

It's always a grandma.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Men don't live as long. Sorry.

[Host 1]

Okay, well, because they don't follow the pyramid or they don't go to one of our sponsors, like four hymns. You'll hear it soon.

[Host 2]

During the Great Depression, the USDA said economic constraints and restraints on time influence the agency's guidance again. So they're going to change it again for the. During the Depression, like, everybody's broke.

[Host 1]

You have them have. Eating how much cereal. They're broke. They're eating cereal for dinner. That's sad.

[Host 2]

Hey, I've had oatmeal for dinner. It's delicious.

[Host 1]

Yeah, I know, but sometimes. Listen, there is a thing when you choose to have cereal for dinner. Fine.

[Host 2]

Oh, it's better.

[Host 1]

But.

[Host 2]

But you're like, let me have a little Cap'n Crunch for dinner. Come on.

[Host 1]

Listen, I'm. Some Frosted Flakes rip up the roof of my mouth. Frosted flakes at 6pm I'm right there. OK. Me tell you, but you're an Apple Jack guy. I am an Apple Jack guy. But also, I like a Frosted Flake. But let me tell you something. As long as it's my choice.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

If I open the cabinets and there's nothing there. And then eventually I'm like, all I have is this box of Froot Loops.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

We're in a bad place. We're spiraling.

[Host 2]

I don't think you had a Special K mom growing up.

[Host 1]

I did not have a Special K.

[Host 2]

Mom growing up because let me tell you, when every meal is a special K, you get bummed.

[Host 1]

Okay, well, you know, where I grew up, Special K was something you took and then you stared off into the sidewalk for a while.

[Host 2]

Oh, we were doing K holes out here.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Well, yeah, there's. Are you kidding? Out here. Out here in the suburbs. Yeah. Kids out here popping Kalanapan. I know. I had a kid I knew whose name was Kalanapan. Rich.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

Yeah. You know what's funny about it? He loved cocaine. I was like, I never.

[Host 2]

I love that when a really big guy's name is Tiny.

[Host 1]

Yeah. So I know. I was like, oh, good old Klonopin.

[Host 2]

Rich.

[Host 1]

I was like, he had never. Quiet.

[Host 2]

So the USDA's food economist, Hazel. I'm not gonna ruin this.

[Host 1]

Go ahead.

[Host 2]

Her name's Hazel. Develop food plans in 1933 at four cost levels to help people shop for food. The plans were outlined in terms of 12 major food groups to buy and use each week to meet nutritional needs. So they're doing a Food plan.

[Host 1]

Yeah, Right.

[Host 2]

It's like a grocery list. This is what you're gonna try to buy. And these are the meals for the week you're gonna try to make so that everyone in the household meets their nutritional needs.

[Host 1]

And she's breaking up economically, too. So it's like, hey, if you're really, really tight, here's the bare minimum. Yeah, so they have. They have a low, a medium, a high.

[Host 2]

Exactly.

[Host 1]

And then they have hunting people on an island.

[Host 2]

Well, yeah, they're eating delicious, delicious people.

[Host 1]

Yeah. I'm just.

[Host 2]

I'm just saying. I don't know what that is on the food pyramid.

[Host 1]

I. You know what it is?

[Host 2]

Milk and me.

[Host 1]

No. It's the eye that floats above the food pyramid. The pride of Providence. Looking down.

[Host 2]

Conspiracy theory.

[Host 1]

There it is.

[Host 2]

So, okay, Dr. Marion Nestle.

[Host 1]

No.

[Host 2]

No relations.

[Host 1]

Shut up.

[Host 2]

No relations.

[Host 1]

So I'm gonna tell you. I thought you did it again.

[Host 2]

I know.

[Host 1]

I thought you did it again because I was like, wait, do you mean Nestle's involved?

[Host 2]

So Dr. Marion Nestle.

[Host 1]

Okay. No relation to the Nestle.

[Host 2]

No relation. Nestle.

[Host 1]

Not buying up all the water. We're not the chocolate people.

[Host 2]

Actually, her name is not pronounced Nestle. It's spelled Nestle like the way we think.

[Host 1]

N, E, S, T, L, E. Yes.

[Host 2]

But it's pronounced Nestle. It's a Jewish name.

[Host 1]

Got it.

[Host 2]

But it looks like Nestle when you read it. And here's what I want to tell you.

[Host 1]

You're not, by the way, you're not calming me down with the conspiracy stuff by telling me it's a Jewish name.

[Host 2]

Okay, hear me out. This is my thing. I did as I was doing, you know, my research on this stuff. I was, of course, I was like, nestle. Holy.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

So then I was following back to try to figure out who she is. Right. She is gonna be the fishbine of this story.

[Host 1]

Oh, really?

[Host 2]

I'm not gonna get too much into her because I really want to talk about the food pyramid itself. But everything I found about this woman is incredible. She was born in 1936. She is a molecular biologist, nutritionist and public health advocate. She had. She's an award winning. She has sold award winning books about food nutrition policy and food education. She's won so many awards. Her wikipedia page has 10 paragraphs of awards.

[Host 1]

Wow.

[Host 2]

Trailblazer award from the International association of Culinary Professionals. Distinguished public service award from Bard College. Public health hero from the University of California. Forbes magazine listed her as the number two of the seven most powerful foodies. An honorary Doctor of Science degree. Like, this woman is pivotal in holding people's accountable for when it comes to food and nutrition. And so, like, she. When it comes to, like, people like, talking, she is, like, the queen of it.

[Host 1]

Okay, so I have a question.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

That is born 1936.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

I'm assuming she's no longer with us. That she's passed.

[Host 2]

I mean, I didn't see she had passed. No, she left American.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

Age 88, lives in New York.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

Of Jewish descent.

[Host 1]

Okay. I. Man, this is. I'm just thinking about, like, today, and I'm like, everything she did, and I'm just looking at today, I'm like, ah, damn it. I was hoping she wouldn't know. No, I was hoping that she wasn't, like, seeing cabinet appointees coming through.

[Host 2]

Oh, no.

[Host 1]

You know what I mean? Like, USDA just being like, we're putting who in charge of what doctor. That's great. Yeah. I didn't. I didn't strive my entire life with 10 paragraphs of fucking awards for who is doing it. He ate a. What, Dead bear worm in his brain. Okay.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

He's gonna. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Colloidal silver, you say? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Add that to the pyramid. That sounds great.

[Host 2]

Fluoride in the water. We don't need it.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

So Dr. Marion Nasul, a retired professor of nutrition, food studies, and public health at New York University, discussed a big problem in the early part of the 20th century was people weren't eating a wide enough variety of foods.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

So again, people are kind of localized.

[Host 1]

In what they're eating because that's also. Refrigeration is just starting to grow.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And so is food transport in that sort of way. So unless it could hold and be preserved well enough to go some other place.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Like strawberries. Like, I know from my family in North Carolina, like, we had. There was a strawberry festival in the town.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Because that's when the strawberries were in.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

We live kind of near a mushroom festival.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

There's so many mushrooms.

[Host 1]

Yeah. And so there's. There's.

[Host 2]

It smells there. There's.

[Host 1]

But I'm saying there is certain areas, these things are really, really good to grow, and they come into season at very specific times. The idea of going to a grocery store today and being able to get any food from around the world because we're using every continent to grow and transport and do all these different things. A globalized food economy is a new idea.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

That didn't exist.

[Host 1]

It's been here our entire lives. But it's very, very new in the world. And so there was a point in time where it's like, you could only get a strawberry in, like, May.

[Host 2]

Yeah, exactly. My great grandma, she, of course, was older, so she grew up in a time where that wasn't the case. So, like, when the different fruits came in, she was, of course, jarring and, like, preserving things. So I, like, I learned how to make pickles from her. I learned how to make jam. She was the queen of apple butter.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Also, my great grandmom was meaner than cat piss, and God rest her soul, but she was so mean. So, like, she. She would teach me how to make these things, but it was not pleasant. It's not a great memory, but, like, I knew that every season, whatever thing was, she was going to be in the basement canning and jarring things. Well, no, she would do it in the kitchen, but then in her basement, she had rows and rows and shelves of shelves of different jarred and preserved things because it was like, this is the time to get it. You're not gonna get it again. And like, she just wasn't a grocery store kind of person.

[Host 1]

Yeah, yeah. I'm saying is. But.

[Host 2]

And that's how it was.

[Host 1]

But it's. Yeah, exactly. And that's. But this is what they're trying to break through.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Is because everybody who lived in wherever. This place, like, fucking Nebraska, it's like, oh, we eat corn. It's like, well, you gotta eat more than corn and beef. Like, all right, well, as long as we have chicken. No, you need a Brussels sprout.

[Host 2]

Oh, my God. Okay. So it became incredible. Oh, this is A quote from Dr. Nasul. This became incredibly obvious during the Second World War when the army had a great deal of difficulty recruiting conscripts because they were so poorly nourished. And the poor nourishment came from a lack of variety of diet. They weren't eating enough vegetables. They weren't getting enough meat or dairy products. The early food guides were designed to encourage people to eat more of a full variety of American agricultural products. So the first real food pyramid was created in Sweden in the 1970s to help people navigate food shortages, specifically, grain.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

Rather than plan a healthy, balanced diet during the time of plenty, the National Board of Health and Welfare was tasked with tackling rising food costs. It came up with two food groups titled basic and Supplementary. This was nutritionally problematic. However, the supplementary foods. Well, no, not, however, because supplementary foods included fruits, vegetables, meat, and fish. But the basics was all the grains. You know, what I mean, so they're like, oh, you only need to supplement fruits and vegetables. Yeah.

[Host 1]

If you only need a little bit of those, you're really just leaning in again. Again. Leaning on grains and cereals and those. Exactly, yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

So the Swedish government also relied on a dietary circle that resembled a cake divided into seven pieces. It did not tell the reader how much to consume of each piece. The important thing to remember here is that it was a guide designed around dealing with scarcity rather than guiding people on nutritional value. You know what I mean?

[Host 1]

You gotcha.

[Host 2]

So this all starts in Sweden.

[Guest]

That's what we need to know.

[Host 1]

Okay, so this is everything is the Swedes faults.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

Well, listen, before we get into 1980, because that's where we're going. Do you want to take a little break?

[Host 1]

Yeah, let's take a little break. And then we will get deeper into the 80s and then we'll slide down.

[Host 2]

You didn't know this on the food pyramid. Cocaine. No, I'm just kidding.

[Host 1]

Okay. I was about to make my cocaine 80s joke.

[Host 2]

I beat you to it.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Hold on. We're gonna take a quick break and we'll hear from some sponsors. Unless you're listening on the Patreon, which you're gonna hear nothing. Which congratulations to you. But yeah, we're about to go to the 80s and we're gonna slide down the slopes of this pyramid as we do a little skiing.

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[Host 1]

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[Host 2]

Okay, so it's the 80s.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

Big hair baby.

[Host 1]

Yep.

[Host 2]

So in 1980, the USDA puts out a publication called Food the hassle free guide to a better diet.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

And it displayed the vegetable, fruit, bread, cereal groups above the dairy and meat groups. Okay.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

So they're more important. Right. It emphasized that it was important to reduce fat intake, singling out red meat as being especially high in fat. The publication was not reprinted and the efforts to produce follow up pamphlets were squashed under the pressure from the meat, dairy and egg industries.

[Host 1]

Okay. Yeah, that sounds about right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You talking about. You talking about big meat?

[Host 2]

Big meat.

[Host 1]

Big meat showed up. Was like, you talking about my red boys.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

You're trying to say that they're not as healthy as fruits and vegetables.

[Host 1]

You know what's very funny is I remember. Do you remember the. The Brady Bunch movie?

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

The one that came out. I think it was like the late 90s. Yeah. In that one there's a whole scene where Alice, the, like the home. I almost call her home health aide.

[Host 2]

No, she wasn't. She was like their.

[Host 1]

She's like, they're. Yeah. She's like the cook and the cleaner and all that. She's basically their maid, but they don't call her a maid. Alice goes to the butcher and she's buying like all this red meat and she's like, it's good for you. And I'm like. And they all looking at it like, you're insane.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And I just remember like that was the first time the joke about not eating that much red meat.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Was I was like, wait, is it bad for you? Like, I didn't. Because again, we weren't given anything being like, no, don't eat that much.

[Host 2]

Don't eat too much red meat.

[Host 1]

Which is the reason why so many people today are triggered of like, especially conservatives.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

If you're just like, anytime. We're like, hey, maybe we should just cut back a little bit. Like, we cut back on 2% on cows.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

They'll lose their mind. And then immediately. And they're like, all right, I'm gonna post 15 videos of myself eating a steak alone on Instagram while smoking a cigar.

[Host 2]

Your oat milk.

[Host 1]

Yeah. I'm just like, okay.

[Host 2]

And I'm like, maybe we just have it once in a while. It's once in a while treat.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Like, I.

[Host 2]

Except for when I was pregnant, then I was, like, deep in the red meat stuff.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

But.

[Host 1]

But the thing is, though, but it's one of those things where it's like, they didn't grow up on Cookie Monster saying it's a sometimes snack.

[Host 2]

It's true. He didn't used to talk about sometimes snacks.

[Host 1]

No, But I'm saying, like, that's the thing, is our personalities were. This is my one thing. And you can't tell me I can't have my one thing.

[Host 2]

Oh.

[Host 1]

And so for some of these guys, they got into red meat. But it's the same thing, too, with those industries. If you're telling people, hey, this isn't good for you, then they're going to cut back on it. And then I can't buy a congressman.

[Host 2]

See, But I have already.

[Host 1]

I've already bought a senator, and I'm going to tell him to tell the USDA to shut the fuck up.

[Host 2]

Shut the Fuck up. By 1988, the USDA began working to develop a graphic presentation of the food guide that conveyed the key concepts variety, proportionality, and moderation. After years of consumer research was conducted, the USDA was poised to release a new guide in 1991. However, Meat and dairy lobbies balked at the way their products were being displayed and demanded that it be withdrawn. The USDA catapulted and withdrew the publication. And after revising it, the Food Guide Pyramid was released in 1992. But, yeah.

[Host 1]

Really? Yeah, it was 92. I felt. I mean, I guess I was. I was little.

[Host 2]

Started in 1988, and it took them from 88 to 91 to get it all done because they were doing consumer research.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Yeah. And then. And then the food and meat lobby came in and was like. The meat and dairy lobby came in. In and was like, fuck you.

[Host 2]

Yeah, exactly.

[Host 1]

Whatever you. Whatever smart idea you had. Nerds. No, but I think I'm more. I'm more stunned.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Because again, it was there in my mind. It was there my entire childhood. I guess I was like 7 and 92. So that would be about 7 or 8. So I guess I was young enough to not remember a time when the food pyramid wasn't there.

[Host 2]

Exactly.

[Host 1]

But also I felt like when my teachers were teaching it, like they had been teaching it for like 20 years.

[Host 2]

Exactly. Man, they were just super good at teaching.

[Host 1]

But. Or. Or they were just really good at just taking propaganda.

[Host 2]

I love propagandizing a kid.

[Host 1]

They're like, whatever the book says out loud. I mean, anyway, we're still allowed to smoke on campus. We're teachers as long as we stay in the teacher's lounge.

[Host 2]

And if you say anything about it, you're standing in the garbage can in.

[Host 1]

The G. That is. What.

[Host 2]

What?

[Host 1]

You're standing in the what?

[Host 2]

Yeah. Like, if you acted up, they would. They would take you. There was a garbage can next to the front of the teacher's desk. Like a little one, kind of. And then if you were bad, you had to go stand in it during class.

[Host 1]

You were abused.

[Host 2]

That was okay.

[Host 1]

That is. Baby.

[Host 2]

I guess that was.

[Host 1]

Look at me.

[Host 2]

Look at me.

[Host 1]

That's not normal.

[Host 2]

Oh, no.

[Host 1]

What you just told me is not normal or acceptable.

[Host 2]

I'm sure they don't do it anymore.

[Host 1]

Your parents paid money to have that happen to you.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

So because you went to a private Catholic school, I went to public school. Have you acted up? They're like, we're gonna have you talk to a therapist.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And work out your feelings.

[Host 2]

Oh. Have you ever stood in a trash can with your feelings?

[Host 1]

No.

[Host 2]

Well. Well, why do you think I'm so funny? Anyway, in her paper, Food Lobbies the Food Pyramid and US Nutrition Policy, author Marion Nesoul writes on how lobbyists began pushing back against the dietary recommendations of the usda. This is all quotes from this paper she wrote. Okay. In February 1977, the committee advised an increase in the consumption of fruits, eggs, whole grains, poultry and fish and decrease the consumption of meat, eggs, butter, fat and foods high in fat, and substitute whole milk with non fat milk. Many groups objected to one or another of these recommendations. But the advice to decrease intake of specific high fat foods brought immediate protests from groups. Most affected cattlemen and the dairy and egg farmers. Meat and egg producers demanded and obtained additional hearings to express their views. These hearings were notable for their explicit statement of self interest. A National Cattlemen's association representative lobbyist, for example, stated that the term, quote, decrease with respect to meat consumption should be considered, quote, a bad word. Representatives of the meat, dairy and egg industries offer to fund research to counter what was perceived as a growing scientific threat to the economic security of their industries.

[Host 1]

Wow.

[Host 2]

Also, I have to say this, like, I don't understand why egg is in here. Because, like, I guess back then they thought eggs were high in fat and cholesterol.

[Host 1]

No. Remember, you got to remember, especially in the 90s, every other week a different part of the egg was bad for you.

[Host 2]

Exactly.

[Host 1]

One week they were like, the egg yolk is gonna murder you. And the next week, like, egg white omelets are fine.

[Host 2]

High in sodium.

[Host 1]

But now there's. It was. Every other week there was an issue with the eggs. But also on top of that, the egg industry is inexplicably linked with the meat industry because of chickens.

[Guest]

Yeah, I know.

[Host 1]

So it's just gonna be.

[Host 2]

I get it. But I'm also like, guys, the eggs are good. Leave the eggs.

[Host 1]

I know. Because you're a big egg person.

[Host 2]

A big egg person.

[Host 1]

You're over here. You should run big eggs.

[Host 2]

I am big.

[Host 1]

There is. There is an egg cartel, and it runs through Mrs. Pearlmania. No, it is very crazy because they just straight up admitted it a bunch of times. So today it's wild, because I can tell that this was all aired on, like, C Span and then was in an article on page nine of the Washington Post because no one ever touched it. But like, a lobbyist straight up being like, give us time. We'll. We'll. We'll. We'll fund research that shows the opposite.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Like, this is cigarette lobby shit. This is what big tobacco did. Yeah. Of just sitting there. But also the thing to keep in mind.

[Host 2]

No, also decrease is a bad word. Is a crazy.

[Host 1]

It's a crazy statement. But this is how lobbyists talk. Because a lot of lobbyists are lawyers and they know that, you know, it's either they work in PR and they're looking at, like, how we're going to manage the brand of it all, or they're like, if we can change this one word right here, then the document means complete opposite.

[Host 2]

Yeah, exactly.

[Host 1]

Put a comma in the front.

[Guest]

Yes.

[Host 1]

Put a comma before, decrease. And that means it's an option. Like weird shit like that. The thing that I keep thinking about, though, and this might be, again, for international listeners, something to keep in mind is that when we're talking about some of these industries, we're also talking about whole states.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Which will mean an entire congressional lobbying group.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Like Texas. Cattle.

[Host 1]

Cattle.

[Host 2]

Just all cattle.

[Host 1]

Oklahoma. Like, I remember the first time I drove. I drove through Oklahoma in 2006. And it was hot. It was like June or July and it was hot. The smell. We had a car that didn't have air conditioning, and the. We had the windows open. And driving through cattle country, you could just smell the manure for. So. And I was like, this is just how it is here. Yeah, but like, corn. Whenever they're talking about, like, doing something with ethanol, which is corn base, that you're going to upset Iowa, and you're going to Nebraska, and a lot of the middle of the state. And guess what? Every state we just mentioned, they got two fucking senators, motherfucker. And those two senators, they go to the same goddamn cafeteria as everybody else. And they go to the same country clubs as all these other motherfuckers. And they all get together and they all slap each other on the back. And eventually the scientists don't get listened to.

[Host 2]

Near hear me out. New idea, new plan. What if we crowdfund me a membership to this country club in D.C. okay. And then I go in there and I start schmoozing.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And then I become a spy for smart people.

[Host 1]

Okay, well, you just described exactly what the Russians did with the NRA. Oh, that's exactly what the Russians did with the NRA. Like, down to the letter. That's 100% what the Russians did with the NRA.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

So it's genetic?

[Host 1]

The National Rifle Association. No, no.

[Host 2]

So you're saying it's genetic.

[Host 1]

It's genetic. You immediately came up with, like, all right, well, if I was an Eastern European psychopath, how would I do some corruption? I'm like, the exact thing you just described, which they've done.

[Host 2]

But I want to do it for good.

[Host 1]

Okay, Sure.

[Host 2]

I want to do it for good.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

Okay, so wait, let's.

[Host 1]

So let me get this right. Let me get this right. You want to be the liberal Joe Rogan?

[Host 2]

I'm trying. I'm trying. Just asking questions.

[Host 1]

We're in hell. So we're in an eternal hell. And it's just. Oh, God.

[Host 2]

So the rest of her quotes from this paper says, members of select committee representing states of large meat, dairy and egg producers, their constituencies, demanded changes to the dietary goals. And a senator named Senator McGovern was quoted as saying, quote, he did not want to disrupt the economic situation of the meat industry and engage in a battle with the industry that he could not win. Therefore, the committee revised the report and published a second edition, in which, among other changes, the original statement to, quote, decrease consumption of meat and increased consumption of poultry and fish was altered to read Quote, decrease consumption of animal fat and choose meats, poultry and fish, which will reduce saturated fat intake.

[Host 1]

I don't even understand what that second level means of, like, it puts it on the consumer. I know, I understand that. But I'm saying is, like, it's crazy. They wrote it in a way. They wrote that the same way they write constitutional amendments that get voted on.

[Host 2]

Yeah, they wrote it very poorly. So it's confusing.

[Host 1]

Yeah, yeah. You know, like, there's. That. There's ones always happen all the time where people are like, oh, I have to go vote on, like, this amendment. And like, the local election. And then you're reading it, you're like, does this ban slavery or does this bring it back twice? Yeah, like, I don't. What. There's so many double knots, double negatives, and, like, other things. You're like, wait, let me cancel this. I don't even know what I'm signing on here.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And then eventually some person shows up, like, vote no on 12. You're like, okay, sure, sure.

[Host 2]

Tell me why.

[Host 1]

Like, I feel smart, right? Like, I think I'm smart. And I can't tell you how many times whenever I've gotten to a ballot measure, that's where I'm looking for ballot measure measurements. Whenever I got into a local ballot measure and I, like. I was like, I have no idea what the fuck I'm reading right here. And I'm like, I thought I've. I know everything on my ballot, usually. And then they're like, oh, yeah, there's ballot measures. I'm like, what? And I just. I turned to the. There's. We have an old lady in our town. I just turned to her and I'm like, what do we do? And she's like, this one and this one. Like, thanks. Sure, she could listen. She's a great person. But if she wanted to, she could break this town.

[Host 2]

I know she can walk around with two. The last part of this quote from this paper she wrote. Under pressure from representatives of the meat, dairy and egg industries, who objected both to the advice to reduce fat and cholesterol and to the placement of their products below. Fruits, vegetables and grains. USDA officials decided to delete the chapter on fat and cholesterol from what was expected to be the second publication in the series. And they decided against proceeding with the series and instead gave the completed page boards to the American Dietetic association, who published them as two separate booklets. And Food became the last federal publication to use the phrase cut down in reference to meat.

[Host 1]

Oh. So they Straight up. Were like the government. The United States federal government is not allowed to say, eat less meat.

[Host 2]

Yeah, it's not allowed.

[Host 1]

They're not allowed to do it because.

[Host 2]

You can't cut down, you can't decrease.

[Host 1]

Can't decrease.

[Host 2]

Keep consuming, Keep going.

[Host 1]

Eat, eat, eat, eat, eat.

[Host 2]

In April 1981, the US Department of Agriculture, led by Secretary Edward Madigan, halted publication of its Eating Right Pyramid due to objections raised by meat and dairy lobbying. Like we said. But this is the quote. Mr. Madigan has denied succumbing to the pressure from commodity groups. But the reversal of the pyramid highlights the dual role of the Agricultural Department, the federal agency in charge of educating the public about nutrition, as well as the agency representing the food industries. Critics say that the department surrenders to producer interest on matters of nutrition education and withdraws a well researched teaching tool like the pyramid. Why should the public believe anything it says about nutrition? Right. So people are like, intelligent people are like, we see what you're doing. Usda, you're playing both sides. You can't be in charge of nutrition education and still be listening to what the commodity groups are saying.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And I love saying commodity groups because it just makes me think of orange commodities.

[Host 1]

Yeah. It just makes you thinks of Trading Places. Yeah, the, the. Right.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

You're just thinking Eddie Murphy, that Jamie Lee Curtis movie.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Somebody commented a while ago, last time we talked about Trading Places and I said it was an Eddie Murphy movie.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And they're like, it's clearly not an Eddie Murphy movie. It's a Dan Aykroyd Dan Akron movie. And I was like, it's a Jamie Lee Curtis movie.

[Host 1]

I know it's.

[Host 2]

I like do not remember. He's in it.

[Host 1]

Yeah, well, he's one of the main characters.

[Host 2]

He probably wrote it. And I'm like, I don't know.

[Host 1]

Probably. But no, but listen, it's. It's very same commodity makes so much. Because once you say commodity, immediately it stops being cattle ranchers.

[Host 2]

Exactly.

[Host 1]

That's the thing. People. I don't think people often wrap their heads around once you start looking them at commodities, you're not thinking about farmers anymore. You're not thinking about ranchers. You're not thinking about the chicken plucker.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

You start thinking about it as the dude with the Excel spreadsheet who's sitting somewhere being like, if they write decrease, we're going to lose 15 cents a pound.

[Guest]

Yep.

[Host 1]

And if I lose 15 cents a pound, then I can't afford a second yacht.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And that's all the growth forever.

[Host 1]

The line goes up. PP goes hard line. Green line goes up. PP go hard. Red line go down. PP go down. PP go sad. Sad pp. That's where we are. Private equity bought Jersey Mics.

[Host 2]

Oh, my God. No. I can't talk about it. I have not emotionally processed the fact that we're going to lose Jersey, Mike.

[Host 1]

I know. I am sorry. I just needed to.

[Host 2]

I don't know. International centers. We have a hoagie store. Hoagie is a type of sandwich.

[Host 1]

Yeah. It's a long roll. Some people call it a sub.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

They're idiots. It's called a hoagie.

[Host 2]

And there's this chain restaurant and it's. They're not the best hoagies in the world.

[Host 1]

They're fine.

[Host 2]

They're okay.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

But they do have gluten free rolls.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And they do have gluten free meats and cheeses. This and their whole team will take time to wipe down the whole counter and the knives and the machinery. And it's the only safe hoagie that I don't have to make at home.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And it got bought by private equity, which means they're gonna have shittier bread, shittier food, bigger prices, and they'll go.

[Host 1]

Under in seven years.

[Host 2]

And they're gonna. They have good pickles. God, they give good picks.

[Host 1]

Yeah. That's the thing is like. Like every. When you go there, it's like, is it. Is it the most reasonably priced? No.

[Host 2]

No.

[Host 1]

But is it good? And is every time we've been in there.

[Host 2]

And buddy can agree on it. So when you're in that moment of like, where should we get some people? Beach house. And you're like, oh, what should we get for lunch? I'm like, oh, let's get Jersey.

[Host 1]

Let's get Jersey.

[Host 2]

All agree that we'll just get a bunch of sandwiches.

[Host 1]

Yeah. And now Blackstone bought it.

[Host 2]

God damn it.

[Host 1]

Not black Rock. I don't know why they keep naming themselves. They got us after Obsidian. Well, like, why. Why do you keep naming yourself after evil rocks?

[Host 2]

They know why. So the agency.

[Host 1]

Because you know what? It's the dark crystal.

[Guest]

Yes.

[Host 1]

Our whole world is just being bought up by the vultures from the dark crystal.

[Host 2]

Jim Henson tried to warn us.

[Host 1]

He did try to listen. And he drank some apple cider vinegar.

[Host 2]

So agency officials started to fear they're losing credibility. Right. So the people at the USA are like, we're losing credibility. And I'm like, yeah, yeah.

[Host 1]

And that's how RFK Jr begins his.

[Host 2]

Rise yeah, so you don't. One of the quotes I have from one of the officials says, quote, you don't need nutrition education from the USDA if it's going to be controlled by special interest group. So they know what's going on. When it is finally published. Even the guide's graphic design was altered to appease the industry concerns. So now we're talking about the pyramid itself. Like when they made the pyramid, the lobbyists came in again, because originally we're just talking about pamphlets and booklets that they're being sent that are being given out and schools and stuff like that, and hospitals. So then when they get the pyramid going, they're like, we don't like our placement. We don't. We don't like the way we look.

[Host 1]

Which is so funny. Can I tell you what's very funny about this? It reminds me of like the fights over movie posters.

[Host 2]

Mm.

[Host 1]

Cuz like in movie posters there's like a whole thing about, you know how like now for the listeners, you know, like the, the Avengers poster where they have a big cast on it and it'll be like, all right, well, Robert Downey junior's head has to be in the middle. And then Chris Evans, he has to be in the left and all this different stuff. But then when you look at the top, their names never line up with their heads, which you would think would make sense, but it's like, no, Robert Downey Jr's name has to come first because he's the biggest star. And then it goes biggest to lowest, but then they're like, even there, there's like a little fight. Everything is. Because everyone's brand managing. Yeah, everyone's brand managing. So of course meat and dairy want to be separate now, but they neither of them want to be subbed to vegetables. Yeah, fuck vegetables.

[Host 2]

You don't even know the name of vegetables.

[Host 1]

Yeah, it doesn't matter. So that's, that's what I mean. It's like, that's where this weirdness where.

[Host 2]

So when it's okay. So I want to tell you about this guy, John Block.

[Host 1]

Okay?

[Host 2]

John Block, an Illinois hog farmer.

[Host 1]

Yes, there it is.

[Host 2]

Illinois hog farmer. I wouldn't give him an air horn yet. Oh, who was Secretary of Agriculture during the first four years of the Reagan administration?

[Host 1]

Ah, wait, was he the cheese guy? This is the block. No, this is.

[Host 2]

Oh wait, it might be.

[Host 1]

I think this is the cheese guy, babe. Remember, it was Block. He carried a block of cheese.

[Host 2]

Oh my God, you're right.

[Host 1]

Fucking.

[Host 2]

I didn't even put it together.

[Host 1]

How have you. Okay. The baby is stolen. Your brain.

[Host 2]

I used to be so smart.

[Host 1]

You used to be able to draw so many lines.

[Host 2]

I know. So he said that the agency gets pressured by all kinds of special interest groups and that as secretary, he relied on nutrition professionals at the agency to form his own opinion when making decisions. Among Block's opinions as Secretary of Agriculture was a comment he made at his confirmation hearing. Quote, I'm not sure government should get into telling people what they should or shouldn't eat. Even pigs, given a free choice, will do a reasonably good job of balancing their rations.

[Host 1]

Okay. Jesus Christ. So we had to put salt and a horse. Salt licks to horses or they will eat until they die. Yeah. There's so many times where animals get into the grain and into the feed and they.

[Host 2]

One time, our dog ate a bunch of menthol cough drops.

[Host 1]

Yep.

[Host 2]

I had a different dog who ate a bunch of ant traps one time.

[Host 1]

Yep.

[Host 2]

Just went around to all the corners.

[Host 1]

We had a dog eat a door until her intestine exploded.

[Host 2]

Oh, my God.

[Host 1]

And that cost us $9,000. It is one of the foundational blocks of our marriage.

[Host 2]

I was just thinking that moment for us was that Tiger King moment when he's like, we're never gonna financially recover from this outside of an emergency.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Jesus Christ. And they're like, well, there's no APR for the first six months. I was like, jesus, fucking kill me. What if he dies on the table? Well, you still.

[Host 2]

We still tried.

[Host 1]

Yeah. It'll still be nine grand real quick. Oh, my God. Yeah, I am. You keep saying special interest groups. And I find it very interesting because when they were talking back then, in the early 80s, whenever they meant special interest groups, they literally meant industry lobbyists.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And people had special interest into the financial side of this. That has changed. Now, when people say special interest groups in the media, they mean race.

[Host 2]

Oh, yeah, okay. I see what you're saying.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Because they'll be like, oh, because they're talking about the race card. Or they're talking about, you know, like, these different groups or women's things. And then they'll be like, these are all. Because they're doing identity politics. It's special interest that. It's so interesting to me on how over that decade plus, they were mutated the word to not mean corporate lobbyists fucking us and being able to have private equity buy up Jersey Mike's.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

By the way, this all comes down to the food pyramid. Should have just been Mrs. P putting 2, 3 Jersey Mike's gluten free hoagies together.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And creating a triangle and then eating them. Food pyramid.

[Host 1]

I will say it was one of the first brands we did try to get a deal with. I. We actually, like, when I was like, let me figure out.

[Host 2]

Oh, yeah. Because when we had the Tick tock go viral when I was pregnant.

[Host 1]

Yeah. About eating, getting a hoagie. And we're like, come on, Jersey Mike.

[Host 2]

Because I didn't eat any hoagies.

[Host 1]

Because you were pregnant.

[Host 2]

Pregnant. And you're supposed to eat lunch meat. Because some people call it deli meat. Because listeria. And so I was really excited to have one. But now they keep having listeria outbreak. So I don't know if I'm ever going to eat lunch meat again.

[Host 1]

Yeah. But also on top of that is because they didn't. They were like, yeah, here's a $50 gift card. We're like, you. And then like, we just. We just released like a multi million dollar deal with Danny DeVito.

[Host 2]

And I was like, we lost out to Danny DeVito. Which is fair.

[Host 1]

Okay, fine. That was the only reason. I was like, I'm never bringing it up again. But also, I'm never giving you another free promo. I can't tell you how often I've been in a Jersey Mike's eating. And I know. Shut up. I know right now it sounds like we're giving away free promo, but this is true. I'll be in there and I'll be eating a hoagie and I'll come up with a good idea. I'm like, I want to record something. I'm like, wait, no. I don't want people knowing I'm in a Jersey night. Not for free, you fucks.

[Host 2]

You are a special interest group.

[Host 1]

I am now my special interest.

[Host 2]

You're a lobbyist for yourself.

[Host 1]

My special interest is my family. That's where. That's where we are. That's where we are now. Okay. There was a time where I would have had special interest for people that weren't my family. Guess what? That ended on November 5, 2024.

[Host 2]

I told you, villain era over here.

[Host 1]

Yep.

[Host 2]

Listen. So what else was this? Quote. He block also said quote. It's easy for some people to say, yes, the Cattlemen and the pork producers have a special interest. But I promise you, those who are doing the criticizing have a special interest too. They're promoting the faction or wing of the food critic masses they represent. And that's fine. That's their role. But to suggest that they are even handed or have no axe to grind or no direct personal interest. That's just not true.

[Host 1]

Oh, he's blaming vegans. Yeah, he's straight up. He's just, he. That, that was a code. Just so you know, what she just said is code for these fucking hippies.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

These fucking hippies want to go out here and hug our cows.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And that is. That, that's amazing because that is exactly how it turned into special interest groups.

[Guest]

Exactly.

[Host 1]

Special interest groups. Not only in the racial thing, but it also would be like college professors. And they always love to be like college people.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Once they go to college, suddenly they have all these ideas. So that's. It's so fucking funny.

[Host 2]

Do you want to take a little.

[Host 1]

Break before we go? We should, we should take a quick one right here. And when we come back, we will keep going a little bit more into the food pyramid and I think you're finally gonna tell me about the plate, right?

[Host 2]

No, we're getting there. We're getting there.

[Host 1]

Okay.

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[Host 1]

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[Host 2]

I personally have talked about this before, but I love the smoked Gouda chicken with the little cubey potatoes and the green beans. It is my favorite. And every time I get to microwave that two minute meal, not only is it fast and convenient, I'm always so excited.

[Host 1]

Yeah, it's just, it's so filling and it's just like, you know, you can get right back to your regular routine.

[Host 2]

Exactly.

[Host 1]

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[Host 2]

Okay, so listen, we're gonna shoot ahead a little.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

We're gonna leave Reagan and John Block behind. Thank God we're going to 2011.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

A great year.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Honestly, a great year.

[Host 1]

It was. It was. It wasn't bad. It was right before I met you. Yeah, I was doing pretty good. I had an apartment by myself and a bucket of pretzels.

[Guest]

Yep.

[Host 2]

I don't remember what I was doing. I was probably having a good time. So in 2011, the USDA decides to rebrand the pyramid. We're rebranding, okay. It's for the millennials. And they're going to do this thing called My plate.

[Host 1]

My plate, My plate.

[Host 2]

And so it's a revamped version of the food pyramid, but instead of it being a pyramid, it's a picture of a plate. And it's divided into four segments. Green for vegetables, red for fruits, orange for grains, and purple for protein. And then dairy has a prominent place sitting to the side of the plate where, like, a glass of milk would be.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

And so this hope was that Americans would look at the plate and then put it in their brain. Like, this is how you do it. So I'm gonna show you a picture real quick.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

This is what my plate is. This is MyPlate.gov, by the way.

[Host 1]

Okay. MyPlate.gov Got it.

[Host 2]

So you can see the portion sizing there of what they're suggesting.

[Host 1]

Yeah, but that's the thing is, like, when I'm looking at they. I mean, I understand that. Turn to me a little bit. Fruits and protein are a little bit smaller. Grains and vegetable a little bit bigger.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

But just. Just very slightly.

[Host 2]

You know what's interesting? Fruits is red. And I didn't talk about it. I guess I didn't write it down. But the meat lobbyists lobbied to make sure that meat wasn't ever labeled in red because red is bad. Like, it means stop, and red meat is unhealthy or something. Like, so they had all this, like, we don't ever want to be labeled as red. And so you can see that me, which I would make red in my.

[Host 1]

Mind because of blood.

[Host 2]

Because. Well, I was gonna say that.

[Host 1]

But blood and muscle. I mean, that's like. That's red.

[Host 2]

But so they picked.

[Host 1]

The tearing and gnashing of flesh is red.

[Host 2]

Let's chill out, man.

[Host 1]

All right. So they pick purple.

[Host 2]

They pick purple. But then they put fruit in red.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And I was like, that's weird.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Because they don't eat fruits.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

They're like.

[Host 1]

Well, also. But it's also like. I mean, I could understand red fruits just because of, like, apples and, like, the inside of watermelon and cranberries inside the Brussels sprouts. Yeah. No, I'm saying, like, all those different things, like, vegetables being green makes total sense. Grains being orange. Ish. Yellow. That actually kind of works.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Dairy being light blue, though. That's Star wars shit. That's blue milk. That's the blue milk that Luke Skywalker drinks at the beginning of Star Wars. If you're gonna be dairy, then it needs to be white.

[Host 2]

Yeah, true. And it was. It's. Oh, in the thing. It's white. It's a. It looks like milk in the cup.

[Host 1]

No, no, turn it back around. It was like. It's a light blue.

[Host 2]

Is it? Oh, you're right. It is. It's blue.

[Host 1]

There's a light blue. Yeah.

[Host 2]

It should be white.

[Host 1]

Because I was looking at. The reason why I noticed it is because I was looking at. Once you started mentioning the colors, I looked at dairy, and I said, dairy's blue. So what color is protein? Yeah, because protein is like, almost a purple to a dark navy when looking at this chart.

[Host 2]

So here's something that happened. Harvard actually created their own plate called Healthy Eating Plate.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

So Harvard was like, this. Myplate is bad, right?

[Host 1]

It is bad. I can look at it. I can look at that. I'm like, this is. This is bullshit.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Myplate.gov that like, that looks like shit.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

I don't trust it. The pyramid, at least in some weird ways, because I think we didn't really go too much detail about the pyramid itself. The pyramid was supposed to be like, this is what you're supposed to eat. Not like in a day, but I think like in like a week or something like that. But it would be like, you're supposed to have so much bread, you're supposed to have so much meat, you're supposed to have so much vegetables, fruits and vegetables and dairy and this stuff that Idea. Kind of like that idea of like, oh, you need to drink like a gallon of water. Eight glasses of water a day, I have a feeling. But it was like, this is. This is two. One size fits all. And it was also.

[Host 2]

I can't even describe how crazy it would be to drink a glass of milk with dinner.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

What a thing to suggest.

[Host 1]

It's so weird behavior. But it's also like, unless you like that. But here's the thing though, is like, you also could have just like put it in the middle.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

They could have. Again, a designer. But you can tell that, like put some sour cream. No, because I can. I can feel cottage cheese in the eggs.

[Host 2]

I don't know.

[Host 1]

I can just feel a thousand lobbyists.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

On that picture, that was literally too many cooks.

[Host 2]

Too many cooks. So the Harvard School of Public Health. That's who did this.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

The Harvard School of Public Health launched the healthy eating plate, which was aimed to correct what Harvard deemed key flaws in my plate. Yeah. So quote, my plate doesn't show that whole grains are better for you than refined rapidly digested grains or that fish and beans are better protein choices than red meat. It doesn't give any guidance that eating more unsaturated fats and omega threes is good for health as. And cutting back on saturated fats from meat and dairy is important. One thing missing from this place mat is a garbage or compost can for the sugary baked goods, breakfast cereals and drinks, and the salty processed foods and snacks that make up a big chunk of Americans daily caloric intake.

[Host 1]

Yeah, yo.

[Host 2]

Facts on the healthy eating plate. You can see this note. It's on there. It says the healthy eating plate is based exclusively on the best available science and was not subjected to political or commercial pressure from food industry lobbyists. I'm going to show you the healthy eating plate and you can tell me the. Well, you can tell us all the differences of the healthy eating plate from the. My plate.

[Host 1]

Oh, wow. Okay. So first thing, it's wildly different. I still don't love it. I still don't like this as a design in general. First thing, dairy isn't even there. No, there is literally a glass of water.

[Host 2]

They're like, you need to drink water.

[Host 1]

Drink water. They have whole grains.

[Host 2]

That's important because the other one just says grains. Right. So that could be like a slice of white bread which is not as good for you as maybe white rice or white or brown rice or a potato, stuff like that.

[Host 1]

100%. So there's that. It says it shows that next to. So there's a glass of water where the dairy should be. There's also a little bottle that says healthy oils.

[Guest]

Yep.

[Host 1]

And so oils, like almost like. Like a balsamic vinaigrette bottle you would get at a restaurant.

[Host 2]

Exactly.

[Host 1]

Which is great. The biggest pie. It's a four slice pie in the middle of this plate. The biggest one in green vegetables.

[Host 2]

Biggest one vegetables.

[Host 1]

The biggest one is vegetables. And I would say. I'm gonna say that's about a third of the plate. It's like, eat a lot of veggies. There is a smaller slice directly above. Below veggies for fruits. And it's in red.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

But it's like a dark red. I would say more almost like a pomegranate red. Then there's whole grains and healthy proteins on the other side of the plate. They're equal. Healthy proteins and whole grains. And then around the outside of the plate, there is a ring with a stick figure of a person running. And it says in giant letters, stay active.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Which is a hundred. Yes, 100%. Because that's the thing is again, I think we talked about in the last episode, this one food scientist we keep. That keeps popping up on my TikTok. And I think I'm slowly falling in love with her.

[Host 2]

We are married.

[Host 1]

No, I don't mean in that way.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

I just mean in the way that, like, she's not stopping.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And one of the things she keeps pointing out is all these different people who are like, oh, you know, these different food dyes and this stuff. And it's this stuff. Because a lot of people want there to be one thing to be the problem.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

This one magic bullet, which is what's been driving me crazy with the fallout autopsies of the election. Everyone's like, oh, the reason why he won and she lost is because of this. I'm like, there's no one thing. But it's the same thing with food. There is no one thing.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

But one thing she constantly points out. Because they'll be like, oh, well, in Europe they do it different. In Europe, they do it different. Everybody's healthy. And she's like, yeah, they walk everywhere and they have universal health care as well. Yeah. Why is that? Not even in the conversation. And I think about that a lot as I drive everywhere in the suburbs. But, like, we felt healthier in the city.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

With the exception of the exhaust.

[Host 2]

The exhaust and the heat.

[Host 1]

The exhaust and the heat.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Because it's a heat sink in the city. But the fact that we could walk everywhere made such a major difference. Or ride your bike or any of these different things, which isn't as big of an option out here. So you have to join a gym.

[Host 2]

I would never ride my bike bike out here. I've seen people riding their bikes out here. It's crazy. You're wild. Taking, lifting your hands out here.

[Host 1]

It's crazy. But you have to pay to go to a place to be able to find time and schedule activity.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Versus when you're in Europe or some other places that are designed specifically for a healthy walking lifestyle.

[Host 2]

I used to walk to work. We used to walk to work.

[Host 1]

There was literally a movement that started during COVID Right. It actually a little bit before that of city planners where they're like, when we're designing places, we should design what's called a 15 minute city, which is the idea of every need that you have should be within a 15 minute walk of a residential area. So that way you could walk to a grocery store if you choose to. You could walk to a library, a religious center, a hospital. Any of these different places. Any of these places you shouldn't have to default to a car. And you know what happened? A bunch of people probably being funneled with money from the car lobby came out and said that this shit, 15 minute cities are evil. In fact, they're gulags. In fact, these are going to be concentration camps that are going to be used to pin all of us inside of an area where they can control us anyway. All those people just voted for literal concentration camps in this country.

[Host 2]

And also if you think your the car lobby wouldn't do that, I want to tell you about Broad Street.

[Host 1]

Yeah. The Broad street line in Philadelphia.

[Host 2]

Yeah. There in Philadelphia specifically, we have public transportation. And there was going to be a lot more public transportation. But Ford, as in Henry Ford, lobbied the government of Philadelphia to not build enough infrastructure for all of the public transit. We were going to have really good trolley, subway, subways all across the city. Because Ford wanted to sell more cars.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And so he disrupted our public transit. And it's irreparable at this point.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

It's crazy. So I'm still, I'm staying mad about it.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

So listen, in 2023, January 2023 Good Ranchers published an article entitled, quote, new government funded food pyramid says lucky charms are healthier than steak. The article was a bar chart that showed lucky charms with a higher healthfulness score than ground beef. They people tried to verify whether or not the headline was Accurate. And it was not the new US Government funded food pyramid chart that promotes the general public idea that children's breakfast cereal Lucky Charms is healthier than steak. That's not actually what was put together. Right. It was this chart that they were kind of talking about wasn't really the food pyramid. They were trying to demonstrate shortcomings in the system when it comes to healthfulness and how we rank the foods. But this, of course, random blogger, Good Ranchers.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Decided to publish this thing that's saying that, oh, the government is saying that Lucky Charms are more healthy than steak because again, we have this uptick in people thinking that processed foods are really bad for you and it's the government's fault, you know?

[Host 1]

So I just googled Good Ranchers. They have an American Meat subscription box.

[Host 2]

There it is.

[Host 1]

Okay, that's Good ranchers dot com.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

So wait, I want to close with a little bit of a little rabbit hole that happened.

[Host 1]

Okay, that's.

[Host 2]

It's. It's related to this. But it happens, right? Yeah. So Coca Cola.

[Host 1]

Oh, God.

[Host 2]

Coca Cola funded scientists who they were paying allegedly to deny that obesity was caused by bad diets.

[Host 1]

So how would they else be caused? So how would they be caused? Coca Cola? How do you become obese if not via bad diet?

[Host 2]

Well, there's a lot of ways, actually. But let's say.

[Host 1]

No, I know. I know that there's thyroids and I know that big bone things. And there's like, oh, there's all this different stuff, but for what they're talking about, for mother. Coca Cola.

[Host 2]

For Coca Cola.

[Host 1]

For Coca Cola.

[Host 2]

So Coca Cola's sales are slipping and there's this huge public backlash against soda and political backlash with a lot of major cities trying to do something and curbing consumption. Soda tax.

[Host 1]

Yeah. The only thing the mayor of Philadelphia got through, fucking Jim Kenny showed up, was like, we're going to make soda more expensive. That'll teach you.

[Host 2]

And nobody stopped drinking.

[Host 1]

No.

[Host 2]

And everybody's just pissed.

[Host 1]

It didn't curb that much. And now more people, like, I do know more people that drink. All they did is they just changed a lot of the formulas. Yeah, they just. They just tweaked the formulas a little bit.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And then they were like, seltzer's more popular.

[Host 2]

Exactly. So what happened is that Coke made a substantial investment in a new nonprofit. Basically, this nonprofit was part of two universities that employed leaders at the Global Energy Balance Network. And Coke donated $1.5 million to start this organization within this nonprofit.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

So the company also provided 4 million in funding to various projects to the organization's founding members. Dr. Blair, a professor at University of South Carolina who researched over the past 25 years, has formed much of the basis of federal guidelines for physical activity. Gregory Hand, dean of West Virginia University School of Public Health, records show that the network's website, gebn.org is registered to Coca Cola headquarters in Atlanta, and the company is also listed as the site's administrator. The nonprofit group's president, James Hill, a professor at the University of Colorado School of Medicine, said Koch had registered the website because the network's members did not know how. They're not running the show. We're running the show.

[Host 1]

Okay. Oh, all right. This feels okay. I don't want to mention her.

[Host 2]

The group.

[Host 1]

This feels very Jill stuff.

[Host 2]

The group's website also omitted mention of Coke's backing until Dr. Yoni Friedhoff, an obesity expert at the University of Ottawa, wrote to the organization to inquire about its funding. Dr. Blair said this was an oversight that was quickly corrected. As soon as we discovered that we didn't not have Coca Cola as one of our funding sources on the website, we put it there, said Dr. Blair. Does that make us totally corrupt in everything we do?

[Host 1]

It's incredible.

[Host 2]

So, yeah, basically, Coca Cola funded a nonprofit to do research to try to prove. Using these scientists and trusted professors in health to prove that sodas and bad diets don't cause obesity. And then they got caught spending, what, about $5.5 million trying to get this so that they could then go to places like the usda.gov and say, like, hey, this isn't nutritionally bad.

[Host 1]

They could just also, like, oh, my God, So crazy. Because they could have just, you know, not put as much evil stuff in the bottle.

[Host 2]

I mean, listen, like, that's.

[Host 1]

I mean, I. I know. It's just. But here's the thing, though, is because these fuckers are so evil. Because these fuckers are so evil, and so many people have been driven insane fighting these lobbying groups over the years. Right. That slowly you go insane yourself.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And slowly you're pushed further and further out because you try the right things. And that's how you end up falling into the arms of somebody like RFK Jr. Like, a lot of the things that RFK Jr. Has been saying over the years, like, started out as reasonable.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And then the money starts making it crazy.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And so now we're at a point where he's just washing through. Now he's sitting on that plane eating McDonald's.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

As part of his humiliation ritual. So that way he won't touch McDonald's.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Like, it's, it's so.

[Host 2]

Oh, it's crazy.

[Host 1]

I.

[Host 2]

So yeah. Food pyramid was basically created by lobbyists.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

It wasn't created with maybe our best health and interests. And then the follow up, my plate, which is when they rebranded the pyramid.

[Host 1]

It's terrible.

[Host 2]

Not great.

[Host 1]

Sucks.

[Host 2]

The Harvard version. Pretty cool. We're going to give it to him on that one.

[Host 1]

I'm going to still say I don't like the plate. I don't like.

[Host 2]

I think you don't like the plate because it's not aesthetically pleasing. I think the plate is good because it's a good model.

[Host 1]

No, because when I look at the plate, here's the thing. What I don't like.

[Host 2]

Okay, go.

[Host 1]

When I looked at the pyramid, I kind of understood.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Like, like the hierarchy of it.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

When I look at the plate, I don't see number one. There's not a hierarchy to it of like, hey, if. What you should be aiming for more than anything else.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

If you could only eat one thing, what should you eat?

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And like when I look at the plate, it's like it feels like that could be vegetable. But like, it's not clear to me.

[Host 2]

I think it's cool. I. Not cool. That's not.

[Host 1]

You're talking about the healthy place.

[Host 2]

The healthy, the healthy eating plate. I think it's useful as someone when I'm putting together a plate. Like if I'm making our dinner and I. When I picture this grid, right. It's like a huge chunk of Brussels sprouts to the left.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Some potatoes on the top corner there. And then like chicken or fish.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Host 2]

I don't usually put fruits on our dinner plate unless it's like apples in a salad or cranberry fruits for us as a snack.

[Host 1]

I mean, we'll. We eat fruits in between.

[Host 2]

Let me tell you about these apples we got right now.

[Host 1]

That's a honeycrisp baby.

[Host 2]

Fucking good ass apples in our house right now. But so for me, it's like, it's a good guide of like half the plate is veggies, the other two pie slices are meats and starch. Boom. Because again, I'm thinking, like, I'm making dinner really quick.

[Host 1]

Yeah. But that's. That thing is to me, it's like that's. That's always been what you're supposed to be doing.

[Host 2]

Like, I always know that.

[Host 1]

I know that. But like, I don't know. I just Feel weird about it. I just. I just don't. I don't love it.

[Host 2]

You don't want people telling you what to do.

[Host 1]

I love my liquors.

[Host 2]

You don't want the government telling you how to eat. And what you should eat is that.

[Host 1]

Let me hit Freedom by Beyonce real fast.

[Host 2]

Don't step on this snake.

[Host 1]

Mrs. P. Before we go greet our new Patreon.

[Guest]

Yes.

[Host 1]

Is there anything else you want to say before we get going?

[Host 2]

Thank you, everybody, for being here.

[Host 1]

Yep.

[Host 2]

I hope your week is going great. Yep. Remember that we're just two people and I'm not a food scientist or a nutritionist or a dietitian. I don't know. I didn't go to school for this.

[Host 1]

Yep. And now we will come back with not only a greeting of some. Some new members and obviously always some deep lore about ourselves that always gets sprinkled in.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

But also the secret word that we want everybody to say in the comments at the end of the episode.

[Host 2]

I didn't even think of it.

[Host 1]

We are going to.

[Host 2]

God damn it. How do I never. I should think of it while I'm writing them. Right?

[Host 1]

You should. You could do that or you could think about it right during this quick little break.

[T-Mobile Representative]

If you have a locked AT&T phone, we're here with bolt cutters. T Mobile will help pay off your locked phone and give you a new 5G phone for free. All on America's largest 5G network. Visit t mobile.com carrierfreedom via virtual prepaid.

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[Host 1]

To join our Patreon and become one of the 900 people that we now have as team leaders, as feds, and as a new $10 tier that. We haven't decided what that means, but it exists.

[Host 2]

I thought we came up with a name.

[Host 1]

We came up with a name. It is the. Hold on. Now. I got to look at it because I don't know.

[Host 2]

Literally yesterday.

[Host 1]

It was yesterday. We were doing the. We were doing the Deviled Eggs episode and I was like, we should add a tier. Let's say what I call upline Ambassador.

[Host 2]

That's right. I remember coming up with that.

[Host 1]

Yeah. We're trying to think of something. We're trying to Think of something like what the difference would be.

[Host 2]

Like the food pyramid.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

The pyramid scheme that we're currently running.

[Host 1]

Yeah. And this has been a good episode about food pyramid schemes.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Food pyramid schemes.

[Host 1]

So we have.

[Host 2]

Wait, we didn't go with the word. Are we telling at the end of this.

[Host 1]

At the end of the episode. That way they listen to everybody's names. Okay, this is. Again, this is. Okay.

[Host 2]

I can't believe.

[Host 1]

Look at me. Look me in the eye.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

We've been doing this for months.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

This the word at the end of the episode.

[Host 2]

Okay, but the thing is. Thought about it.

[Host 1]

Okay, but stop. Look at me. I know. You seem really excited about it now look at me again. Eyes up here. Stop looking away. You're looking away. Don't do it. What I want you to do is remember this is like at the end of the movie.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

When you get the bonus scene and you remember how like Marvel movies that used to wait and like some people had to pee, then they started putting them after there was like the pre credits.

[Host 2]

Oh, my God.

[Host 1]

And the. These are the full credit endings.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Samuel L. Jackson walks out.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Okay. I have a thing called the Avengers Protocol.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

All right.

[Host 2]

I don't know what that means.

[Host 1]

We got 15 people we're gonna introduce and say hello to today. And we're gonna start off with Khadijah Ketera Carbon.

[Host 2]

Hey, Khadijah. Hey, Hud.

[Host 1]

After that we have Tyrannosaurus Bex of Highland Cartoons podcast.

[Host 2]

Hey, hon.

[Host 1]

Hey. I feel like that's one of those pod. I don't know. I haven't listened to the podcast. I haven't checked it yet. We're gonna check it out. But Tyrannosaurus Bex of High Owned cartoons podcast. Welcome. After that we have Maggie Stowe.

[Host 2]

Hey, hun.

[Host 1]

After that we have Librarian who's here for horny fairy book 3.

[Host 2]

Yeah, librarians know what's up now.

[Host 1]

I'm gonna do that again with the underscores I forgot to do.

[Host 2]

Oh, no.

[Host 1]

Librarianwhose underscore. Horny Underscore. Fairy. Underscore book. Underscore 3.

[Host 2]

Did you just forget the underscores after making me hold eye contact? Because I forgot the timeline of how we do these things.

[Host 1]

After that, we have disquieted high school history teacher.

[Host 2]

A hard day to be a history teacher.

[Host 1]

My apologies. Just look, the kids.

[Host 2]

Apologies.

[Host 1]

Let me tell you something. Don't tell the kids that we learned from history anymore. Just call it spoilers.

[Host 2]

Spoiler alert.

[Host 1]

Just be like, oh, just so you Know, like, when you start getting in, like, the fall of Rome, or, like, maybe you're calling, like, the rise of a fascist government somewhere in the world, just be like, oh, by the way, guys, spoilers.

[Host 2]

Spoiler alert.

[Host 1]

You know, if you're covering anything from the Gilded Age, just yell spoilers the whole time. Trust me, the kids will love it.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

After disquieted high school history teacher, we have Jeremy P. Hey, Jeremy. After that, we have Cass Creates action.

[Host 2]

Hey, hon.

[Host 1]

After that, we have Chronically underscore. Ill. Underscore. Casey.

[Host 2]

Hey, Casey.

[Host 1]

How you doing?

[Host 2]

Hey, hon.

[Host 1]

I'm sorry. After that, we have. It's.it's.it's.

[Host 2]

Hey, hon.

[Host 1]

That's. It. Just. It's dot. I love that. After that, we have Mrs.— Peas. Underscore. Biggest Underscore fan.

[Host 2]

Hell, yeah, dude. Hey, hon, what's good? Fan club.

[Host 1]

Okay. I think one of my favorite things is, like, when people come with, like, really cool, interesting names, right? Is that I have their emails listed here. Because it gives me their emails, and like, half the time, their emails, just their name. So it's like this really cool thing. I'm like, oh, my God, they're so anonymous. And I just throw it. Look, I'm like, I know your real name.

[Host 2]

Why'd you say it so menacingly?

[Host 1]

I don't want to say it menacingly. I'm just. Just to let people know I know I have you.

[Guest]

Oh, my God.

[Host 2]

I'm gonna take over this.

[Host 1]

Which is why you need to. Which is why you need to use DeleteMe. Join delete me.com Pearlmania20. No, but in general, I just want to let everyone know, after that, we have Dos. Dustin.

[Host 2]

Dustin.

[Host 1]

For Dugan Fadugan. Dustin Fadugan. No, I think you said it right.

[Host 2]

Fadugan.

[Host 1]

Dustin Fadugan. Hey. Honor X Dash Duggan. Dugan.

[Host 2]

I think we're right.

[Host 1]

I think we're right. You know what? I feel like they'll message me and tell me otherwise, let us know. You let us know in the messages on Patreon. After that, we have CEO. Wait. I'm actually just going back to Mrs. P's biggest fan. I did kind of sound really threatening on that.

[Host 2]

You really did.

[Host 1]

I just wanted to. I've been looking at him for forever. I pull everything to an Excel spreadsheet every single time. Pull to Excel spreadsheet because some people don't know how to update their name properly or whatever.

[Host 2]

So we help.

[Host 1]

So we help. And so we always go update them on this Spreadsheet. But the spreadsheet always brings over the emails and statuses and all this extra information I don't need.

[Guest]

Yep.

[Host 1]

And I'm just looking at just the left column, and I'm just like, look. I was like, well, your name's right there. I know everything. After that, we have CEO of Strategic Planning.

[Host 2]

Strategic Planning?

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Oh, my God. Incredible. 10 out of 10.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Icon.

[Host 1]

CEO of strategic planning. Strategic.

[Host 2]

That's who my cousin is for Thanksgiving.

[Host 1]

Oh, yeah. That's true. Because she has to bring the cheese. After that, we have CNS.

[Host 2]

CNS.

[Host 1]

CNS. Hey.

[Host 2]

On.

[Host 1]

And after that, we have muddy knees 82 18.

[Host 2]

Muddy knees.

[Host 1]

Muddy knees 82. 18.

[Host 2]

Okay. I don't know what's happening.

[Host 1]

Well, I know her real name.

[Host 2]

Stop saying that.

[Host 1]

I'm telling people. I just want people to know. Maybe get a better, you know, email address.

[Host 2]

No, no. Oh, my God. I use my name on my email.

[Host 1]

I know. So do I. I'd say so do you. No. It's just funny with your middle initial. I know. Anyway, don't give out that much information. Now I have to make sure that I Never lose my JoinDeleteMe.com Promania20 subscriptions. Stop putting ads after muddy knees 82. You know what I like about money? Knees 82. 18.

[Host 2]

What?

[Host 1]

It reminds me like, a classic AOL instant messenger name. You know what I mean? Like, you had a name. It's like, oh, it's already taken it. And it just gives you random numbers.

[Host 2]

And I was born in 18. 1982.

[Host 1]

Yeah, 1982. And I was 18 today when I'm making this. And then you've just stuck with it ever since. And finally, our last one. You ready for it?

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

You have your finger on a button.

[Host 1]

I have my finger on a button.

[Host 2]

I know. I'm excited.

[Host 1]

Okay. Our last person. And again, I don't choose these lists. We just go with however they come in. I read them top to bottom. Last person. The dope dude. Yeah, he's the dope dude.

[Host 2]

No. Yeah. Like, we didn't mean like that.

[Host 1]

We don't know.

[Host 2]

He could be.

[Host 1]

No, he might be pretty cool. I mean, I'm gonna say something.

[Host 2]

Dope dude.

[Host 1]

Can I tell you something about the dope dude? I don't know his real name. Yeah, he's got a cool email address.

[Host 2]

The dope dude. @gmail.com.

[Host 1]

No, but it's pretty close. It's pretty close.

[Host 2]

He kept that branding.

[Host 1]

He was like, listen, I'm the dope dude.

[Host 2]

And I'm like, okay, the Dope dude dot net.

[Host 1]

I wonder if the dope dude answers his phone sometimes. Like, I don't know who this is. Wrong number, wrong number. And just hangs up.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Like in that movie.

[Host 2]

I want him when he gets a new job. Does he introduce himself? Like, people call me the dope dude.

[Host 1]

Yeah. I wonder if he's just like, yeah, I'm pretty dope.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And if you say that, you probably are.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Honestly, anyone who I've ever seen who's called himself dope.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Has been.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Like just the coolest. Like there's something to be putting out. Like, that guy's a dope. That's different.

[Host 2]

Different.

[Host 1]

But when some guys like, yeah, I'm dope. Yeah.

[Host 2]

He is pretty dope guy.

[Host 1]

Yeah. I think a lot. We have a couple of our friends who are like, just. Dudes are like, yeah, I'm dope.

[Host 2]

You're like, yeah, yeah. I can I immediately picture two of them.

[Host 1]

Well, we reach the end of the episode.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

And now you get to premiere for the first time ever.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

An actual thought out secret password for people to put in the comments.

[Host 2]

I went through my notes, I went through the document, the Google Doc I'm on right now. And I think the best word, it's two words, would be Big Meat. Because that's who the lobbyists were. Big Meat.

[Host 1]

All right, listen, y'all. I don't care where you're watching this. I don't care if you're watching this on YouTube or if you're listening to us on Patreon. I don't care if you're. Honestly, if you're just on Spotify or on itunes, give us a review. We keep forgetting actually tell people to review us.

[Host 2]

Try Big Meat, please.

[Host 1]

If you, if there's a space, if there's a way that you can interact with our content, get in the comments and type Big Meat. Because that is what this show is bringing to you. Some big, big Meat. Too many frauds and too many scammers that we wish weren't real. Too many comments and too many spammers and we're starting to feel like we've got too many tabs open. It's too many times. Remember to smile.

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[T-Mobile Terms Representative]

Minimum of 4 lines for 25 per line per month with auto pay discount using debit or bank account $5 more per line without autopay. Up to 830 off each phone via 24 monthly bill credits plus taxes, fees and 10 device connection charge. 4 well qualified customers contact us before canceling entire account to continue bill credits or credit stop and balance on required finance agreement to bill credits and if you pay off devices early. CT mobile dot com.