#79 Do You and Your Clients Need a Money Detox? with Tammy Lally

Summary

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Top Advisor Podcast #79: Do You and Your Clients Need a Money Detox?

Guest: Tammy Lally, Money Coach & Author
Host: Bill Cates
Date: December 18, 2024

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Bill Cates sits down with Tammy Lally—certified money coach, TED speaker, and author of "Money Detox"—to unpack the complex emotional and psychological undercurrents around money that impact both advisors and their clients. Tammy openly shares personal experiences and deep insights on "money shame," emotional immaturity with finances, and the process (and necessity) of a money detox. The conversation is both vulnerable and practical, offering actionable strategies for advisors to foster healthier relationships with money—for themselves and their clients.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Tammy's Personal Story & Motivation (04:08 – 11:10)

• Impact of Family Tragedy:
  Tammy shares a deeply personal story about her brother’s financial struggles during the 2007 housing crash, culminating in his suicide due to financial stress.
  • "He took his life by suicide... I did not see how that was possible. I didn't know that people could get that close to hopeless despair, that that would be a solution." — Tammy Lally, (06:15)
• Her Own Money Crisis:
  Within a year after her brother’s death, Tammy’s own business collapsed and she filed for bankruptcy, experiencing profound shame and secrecy.
• Key Insight:
  Money struggles are emotional, generational, and often invisible even to those closest to us.

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Emotional Immaturity & Money Behaviors (07:40 – 11:10)

• What Is "Immature Behavior" Around Money?
  • Emotional underdevelopment and impulsivity, often inherited from family patterns.
  • "Money is very practical... but if you can't get there, there's an emotional deregulation. You're not able to get out of your emotional state to be able to discern." — Tammy Lally, (09:09)
• Universal Nature:
  Most clients (and many advisors) operate from places of fear, shame, and anger, not logic.

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The "Money Detox" Concept (11:10 – 15:06)

• Origin:
  Tammy connected her experience in 12-step recovery with the idea of detoxing from unhealthy money beliefs.
• Purpose of the Book:
  To help readers emotionally develop and spiritually connect with themselves, decoupling self-worth from net worth.
  • "This book is about how to emotionally develop and understand that you're beyond your belief around how much you have and living in this well, this well of money shame." — Tammy Lally, (12:37)
• Not a Traditional Finance Book:
  Focuses on “money shame,” codependency, coping mechanisms, and the hidden forces that drive financial decision-making.

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Tammy's Coaching Approach (15:06 – 18:21)

• Role as Coach—Not Financial Advisor:
  No longer sells insurance or products. Strictly focuses on behavioral coaching, working as a fiduciary in close concert with clients' other professionals.
• Where She Starts:
  Always begins with present challenges—personal finances, spending, debt.
  • "Everybody's having a disruption in their personal finances... fear, shame, and the past... is contributing to their inability to make the right choices." — Tammy Lally, (17:53)

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Unintentional Client Shaming by Advisors (18:21 – 22:33)

• Common Pitfall:
  Advisors often give "cut the Starbucks" advice, but clients hear “you’re not good enough”—fueling shame.
• Alternative Approach:
  • Practice curiosity over judgment; ask open questions about clients’ childhood, family patterns, and emotional triggers.
  • "It's not because people want to shame. It's because we just don't know what else to do. So the what else to do is to be curious." — Tammy Lally, (19:37)
• The Role of Empathy:
  Advisors benefit from working on their own money issues—“Financial advisors can't coach themselves. They need coaches. They need to look at their own money beliefs and biases to be more effective.” — Tammy Lally, (21:28)
• Realness & Shared Humanity:
  When an advisor shares their own mistakes or shame, it opens the door for clients to do the same.

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Practical Exercise: Host’s Money Story (27:13 – 34:16)

• Bill candidly reveals his own anxiety around money despite being financially secure:
  • "I have anxiety around money. I have enough... But I still have anxiety around money." — Bill Cates, (27:13)
• Tammy’s Advice:
  • Examine the facts: Do you actually have enough?
  • Define what “enough” means personally.
  • Chronic money anxiety often signals deeper issues, not always about actual finances, which calls for a “money detox.”
• Deeper Roots:
  Chronic scarcity thinking and “not enough” feelings may be rooted beyond money—in self-worth or family history.

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The Scarcity Mindset Is Culturally Ingrained (34:16 – 37:47)

• Bill’s Observation:
  • Scarcity thinking may be baked into our evolutionary psychology.
• Tammy’s Response:
  • Culture, media, and capitalism reinforce the not-enough narrative.
  • Transformation requires stepping back from social programming and returning to a sense of intrinsic “enough-ness.”
  • "This is about returning to yourself... If you stay there [in scarcity], you're going to be a follower, you're going to do what they say. And that doesn't work for the human experience." — Tammy Lally, (36:52)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Money Shame:
  "You're not having a money problem, you're having a maturity problem. And I mean that with a lot of respect." — Tammy Lally, (10:33)

• On Curiosity with Clients:
  "Ask a question of curiosity. It's only about curiosity... The financial advisor isn't going to be comfortable asking that question if they can't ask themselves the question." — Tammy Lally, (20:12)

• On Scarcity Mindset:
  "We live in a fear culture... but if you did a money detox and you started looking at yourself and how resourceful you are... you will learn that you are enough." — Tammy Lally, (36:07)

• Practical Empathy:
  "I've had a personal bankruptcy. I've owned 200 pairs of shoes ... I've done it. So because I've done it, I can hold space for people..." — Tammy Lally, (21:08)

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Important Timestamps

• 04:08 — Tammy Lally’s personal wake-up call and her brother’s story
• 07:59 — Explanation of “emotionally immature” financial behaviors
• 11:24 — Origins and intent of Money Detox and the book’s scope
• 15:28 — How Tammy’s money coaching practice works in tandem with advisors/CPAs
• 18:38 — How financial advisors inadvertently shame clients
• 22:33 — Curiosity and empathy as antidotes
• 27:11 — Bill Cates opens up about his own money anxieties
• 34:16 — The roots and cultural reality of scarcity thinking
• 36:52 — Returning to a sense of enough-ness; unplug from cultural programming

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Actionable Takeaways for Advisors

• Cultivate Self-Awareness:
  Address your own money beliefs to better empathize with and serve clients.
• Practice Radical Curiosity:
  Ask clients about their emotional history with money before offering solutions.
• Lead with Empathy (Not Willpower):
  Avoid shaming clients. Instead, validate their experiences and meet them “on the same plane.”
• Support Money Detox:
  Encourage clients (and yourself) to reflect on the stories, family messages, and societal beliefs that drive money behaviors.
• Remember “Enough-ness”:
  True wealth starts with believing "I am enough" and "I have enough," not just with numbers on a spreadsheet.

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For More Resources

• Tammy Lally’s TED Talk: [TED.com – Search “Tammy Lally” or “money shame”]
• Website: tammylally.com
• Money Detox (Book): Available via her website or major book retailers.

Contact Tammy directly: 904-536-7944

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This episode moves beyond spreadsheets, asking advisors and clients alike to examine the emotional roots of their money lives—and encouraging everyone to embark on a money detox for deeper freedom and peace.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the Top Advisor podcast, brought to you by Proudmouth's Pod Rocket Academy. I'm your host, Bill Cates, creator of the Cates Academy for Relationship Marketing. In each episode, I interview one of our industry's top performers, getting them to pass on their secrets to success to you so that you can impact more lives and generate more income. Now onto the show. Welcome. Welcome. Our guest today has delivered a TED talk that at last count has garnered over 2.2 million views. Now that's a whole lot of people influenced by her message. Today, we're going to discuss the unproductive and often limiting beliefs that most people have around money, including financial advisors. The goal of this discussion is to help you gain some clarity around your beliefs and how they impact your work with your clients, and how you can also help your clients develop more productive and healthier beliefs for themselves. But before we dive into this meaty discussion with our guest, I want to let you know about some free resources that I invite you to retrieve. After you've listened to today's interview, you'll find checklists, guides, videos and other tools. Simply go to referralcoach.com resources. Now write this down unless you're [e-mail] resources. It's also in the show notes. And while you're there, make sure you sign up for our weekly tips. We're always sharing best practices and we'll notify you of our newest podcast interviews as they go live. And while these are free to you, I think you'll find them quite valuable. Now, on with today's show. To say that people have stuff around money would be an understatement. It's believed that for most people, our primary thoughts, feelings, beliefs about money are ingrained. By around age 7, we get messages from our parents, siblings, friends, and of course, the media. Now, you may be an expert with investments, insurance and or comprehensive financial planning, but you too bring your beliefs and emotions to your clients and to your team members. Some are healthy and helpful, I'm sure, and some maybe not so much. And I certainly don't have to tell you that your clients bring all their money stuff when they work with you. Over the 30 plus years I've been in this business, I've met advisors who are very comfortable talking with their clients about their beliefs and emotions. And I've met too many advisors who either don't feel comfortable conversing with their clients about their relationship with money, or they just don't realize the importance. Wherever you are on the spectrum, I think you'll find today's conversation both interesting and helpful for your clients and for yourself. To discuss this important topic with me today is our featured guest, Tammy Ulali, CMC lutcf. Tammy is a certified money coach, financial planner, TED speaker, and author of the book Money Detox, which I'm holding right here in front of me. Great book, Money Detox. As I mentioned previously, as of this accounting Tammy's TED Talk has received are you ready? 2,297,477 views Tammy's coaching and planning has been effective with a wide range of folks from individuals and couples, entrepreneurs and business owners, executives and professionals, all the way to other coaches and therapists. Her clients learn how to recognize their fears and barriers, focus on new strategies and tools, and then take clear action to bring more money, meaning and happiness into all parts of their lives. Tammy Lally zooming in from near Washington, D.C. not too far from me. Welcome to Top Advisor Podcast.

[B]

Thank you. Great to be here.

[A]

Great to have you. All right, so you've influenced well over 2 million people with your TED Talk, which is amazing. How did this come about, what's the story behind it and what prompted you to take this big stage?

[B]

Well, as we all get motivated by our own life and our own past, I had my own wake up around money in 2007. It was coupled by the housing market crashing and I had it was a very personal relationship that I had with my brother. And my brother was somebody that really struggled with managing his personal finances with his wife and a very effective, not even saying it didn't even need to be that effective. They just weren't on the same page and they had a very immature approach to managing money. And during that time in 2007 where a lot of folks were upside down in their mortgages and they had to refinance and they pulled too much money out, he was one of those people. They were one of those people. And you know, we had a meeting and they came kind of reached out for help and you know, I quickly recognized that they were in a very immature, you know, a lot of immature behavior. Nobody was taking responsibility. And some of the real practical advice I gave them didn't land. And it did not only land, but kind of later on, not in that, not in that particular meeting, but later on it kind of unraveled where my brother and his wife were quite hopeless in the situation and my brother made a decision based on the financial stress he was under, based on how he was coping with his financial stress. He was behind the eight Ball, his house went into foreclosure. He took his life by suicide. And it was that coupled by a lot of, you know, in hindsight, a lot of my own behaviors, a lot of my own looking back at family, that it pushed me into looking at. Oh, my God, you know, I was very close with him. I did not see how that was possible. I didn't know that people could get that close to hopeless despair, that that would be a solution. And he left behind children and a wife, and he was really beloved, and it was very tragic. So it had me looking at myself. It had me looking at my role in his, you know, me rescuing him and my approach to money, which was very, very practical. But in hindsight, I was doing my own shenanigans. You know, I was shopping more than I was saving, and, you know, I had my own pieces going on. And within a year after he died, I owned a small mortgage company in Florida, overextended, and I had to close that company due to the market. And I also had to file personal bankruptcy. So that was probably the biggest shameful crisis of my life that I was very secret about and didn't tell anybody for years until I had to. And so I really just get it. I mean, it's just a lot. We. We go through a lot in our lives, and money is something that is very complicated for a lot of us, and there's a lot of emotion attached to it. There's a lot of anxiety attached to it. There's fear, there's shame, but there's a lot of not understanding how.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so it just took me to really going deeper into how can I really help more effectively using it.

[A]

Sorry. And.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You use an expression that I haven't heard much and I can kind of guess what it means, but I wouldn't mind you defining a little bit. You said that your brother and his wife had a lot of immature behavior around money. Is that living beyond their means? More to it than that. What would it. How did that show up?

[B]

Yeah, I would say that, and this was true for them, and it's true for most people, is that we are a lot. Most of us are emotionally underdeveloped. You know, we didn't get a lot of emotional development.

[A]

Well, my wife would agree with you on me on that.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

I say that that's probably a mass majority of people. And then you take people out of their family of origins, and my brother got married and had a child when they were young. I mean, they were in their early 20s, so they now don't really have any skills around money because they weren't taught any. And they were personality types that they didn't want to know either. So both of them were happy. Go Luckies. Life of the parties, very outgoing. You know, it was more important to take a Disney cruise than it was to make sure, you know, the bills were caught up. That was just the way that they lived. They were very much in the moment. So they didn't mature. They had a child and then they had, you know, life and, and they had, were always heavily reliant on family to help them financially. So they had jobs but they overspent on the things they liked hunting, he was into hunting, she was into kind of shopping, crafts, that kind of stuff. But going out, eating out, I mean just. But no emotional discernment. So here's what I mean by emotionally underdeveloped. Money is very practical. I mean, it's very practical. I mean, one plus one equals two. If you have $100 and you spend 110, you're going to have to borrow 10. I mean it's very logical. But if you can't get there, there's an emotional deregulation. You're not able to get out of your emotional state to be able to discern. Okay, let me think this through both sides, what's best, what's not. Let's, let's be a little bit more thoughtful and strategic. Most people, my brother and sister in law were very impulsive and they led by fear, shame and anger, resentment. Like which is everybody, Everybody. If you look at the Enneagram, which a lot of people probably listening to this have done, know their number. You know those, that's the trifector, you know, that's the emotional hotspot which most of us are operating from at any given moment. If you take that and you're only operating emotionally with money, it's going to be dysfunctional, it's not going to work. So there has to be a willingness to grow up. I say this to clients all the time. You're not having a money problem, you're having a maturity problem. And I mean that with a lot of respect. You know, I was emotionally immature. I grew up in a dysfunctional home. You know, who didn't? But there was a lot of my parents were very dysfunctional and emotionally immature. So it was just kind of passed on. And unless we take it on, we lean on our family and we lean in a way that is detrimental to everybody in the family. We give you Know, so that's what I mean by that.

[A]

Gotcha. Talk. Talk to me about the, the book Money Detox just for a minute. Did that come about before? After ted, during ted, same time. Tell me a little bit about the book itself and, and, and the development of that.

[B]

Sure. Money Detox is something that I have been saying since I was in my early 20s, that we all needed, you know, I, I grew up in 12 step recovery. So detoxing from unhealthy beliefs and behaviors was very near and dear to my life. Being able to thrive so deed, the concept of detoxing was just, it was just second language to me. And so as I professionally kept moving, you know, first through the. My first professional was 10 years of corporate and then I went to, went into finance for the next. I've been in finance like about 25 years now. You know, everybody's got stuff. I mean the way that we deal with money, the way that, the way that I was, I was a sales professional in corporate and told to go right out and get a Mercedes, told right out to get, you know, buy a house. Mean, this was in the early 90s. And I did, and I didn't realize they did it so that I'd keep busting my butt, you know, and I'd have to work really hard. So culturally I got caught up in a lot of the, you know, the detox, the, the, the mindset of more is better, more money, more money, more money, more stuff. So as I kept growing up and as I kept learning more about myself, I have, I'm a very deep self reflector and it just made sense that this was necessary and needed. And it came, the book just went pop. When my brother died, I went through my personal experience, but the book was already there. It just wasn't put together. So the, so when all that popped, I, I put it out there. I wanted to do the TED talk. I got an invitation to do it. It was just very, you know, universally lined up. And then I just did both at the same time because it was there, it was the same message. The book is really about how to emotionally develop and how to spiritually connect with yourself and take away that money's your worth, you know, debunking, you know, money is my worth to know I'm enough now let me, you know, find out who I really am and how I can engage in life and be of maximum, you know, service to whomever and myself. And that's what the book is about. It is not a financial book for you to go and you know, Susie Orman is your girl if you want to understand a Roth and all of that. But this book is about how to emotionally develop and understand that you're beyond, you know, your belief around how much you have and living in this well, this well of money shame. The book deep dives into that concept of money shame, codependency, addiction, how we cope as a result of money shame. Growing up feeling like we're not enough, we don't have enough, we're not better, you know, that person's doing better than we are and how that impacts your choices and decisions in your life. You will make a choice on who you marry, what job you take and where you live and what car you drive and blah, blah, blah, based on your money beliefs. And if you have shame, feeling like you're not good enough are going to measure up, that'll drive your entire life without you even knowing it. So the book will pop you open, it'll just help you see what you can't see. And it's great, it's fast in many cases. It's funny because it's. Because it's ridiculously painful.

[A]

So I know that you were a coach, I think before you came a financial advisor per se. So tell us a little bit about your advisory practice. I think you told me you kind of do the coaching and money thing first before you even work with the money per se. Am I getting that right? Just describe that please.

[B]

Yeah, it's actually at the same time, so. So I do not, I am not a fee based financial advisor or planner and I do not sell insurance products or anything like that anymore. That is something I used to do. I am strictly hired as a coach, as a fiduciary for my clients to help them not only understand themselves, but also to get their hands around their personal finances that then allows them to, to build a financial plan. I work as a third party. I work with the CPAs of my clients, the financial advisors of my clients. Some of my clients, I work with their therapists. So I'm plopped into somebody's life to help them have the best possible, highest quality of life they can have. So I will insert myself anywhere. So everybody that I work with is having a personal finances issue there. The struggle is in their personal finances, which is impacting their businesses and their bigger plan and their kids, you know, how they're saving for whatever they're, you know, for children's retirement or for children's college or for their own retirement or business owners selling companies, merging, getting these Big amounts of money, not knowing what to do. So everybody's having a disruption in their personal finances. So we always start there. You have to start there because the emergency is the emergency. Some people don't have an emergency, but they're so sick and tired of feeling stressed and worried and that's emergency enough. So the approach is what's going on in your finances? Let's look at that immediately. So I look at the whole picture, right down to bank statements, credit card statements, everything, all the detail, the stuff that financial advisors and planners don't do because they don't have time to do that. It's just not what they're trained to do. It's not the expertise. The expertise is to meet them when they're ready to save. I'm trying to help people be able to keep the plan in place. So the approach, if I have somebody come that has a trust fund, if I have somebody that comes that is just a hard worker and has saved a lot in their 401k, but they can't seem to rein in the spending, you know, we just get into the details of what's happening and then build from there. Everybody's different. Everybody's different in terms of what they need from a planning perspective. But everybody is the same in that fear, shame, and you know, the past, the resentments of the past is contributing to their inability to make the right choices for themselves.

[A]

You had mentioned that when we were preparing for this program that financial advisors often unconsciously shame their clients about money. How does that show up and what's the alternative?

[B]

Yeah, that's great of you to bring that up. So in the financial industry, if you were to go and watch my TED Talk, what I did with my brother and my sister in law when I met with them was hey, you gotta cut back on your spending. Cut out Starbucks, you're spending too much over there. You need to earn more money. I mean that is the approach. That is the tried and true. Our parents said that. Their parents said that. Unfortunately, because people have a lot of competing problems, emotionally anxieties, depressions, all this plays into how people manage money. Past traumas, they can't hear that without hearing that they're not good enough. Like that's what they hear. So they hear that they're not good enough. Like they're really falling short. They're not measuring up because they're, they're in the question of why can't I do that? Like why can I not control what I'm spending? Why can't I? You Know, pay off my credit card and stop using it. Why can't I manage my cash flow? Why can't, you know? So when the only solution is spend less, save more, earn more, cut it out. It's willpower, it's shaming. I mean, it's just shameful. So, so it's not because people want to shame. It's because we just don't know what else to do. So the what else to do is to be curious. Ask a question of curiosity. It's only about curiosity. Hey, I would imagine that this has been really hard for you. This has been really painful for you to see, you know, going up and down, you're working hard, you know, can you tell me a little bit about, you know, what it was like when you were growing up? Like, did you, was there stability when you were at home? Did one of your parents, you know, did you go shopping on a regular basis? Did your father drink or gamble? I mean, this is all people's individual money stories is in. The financial advisor isn't going to be comfortable asking that question if they can't ask themselves the question question. And financial advisors can't coach themselves. Financial advisors need coaches. They need to look at their own money beliefs and biases to be more effective. So nobody's asking the financial advisor or the planner to be a therapist. Nobody's doing that. What's necessary is to be more curious and to see yourself in your client versus making them different and you superior. Because that's bullshit. That's bullshit. Every financial advisor, including yourself, including me, everybody has their own financial issues, has their own personal financial story and problems and has had mishaps. And when we can meet each other in this on the same plane and say, hey, I get it, I've done it too. If a financial advisor were to say that to a client, that is why it goes so far. That's why I'm so successful and sought after. Because I say, listen, I get it. I've had a personal bankruptcy. I've owned 200 pairs of shoes, you know, like, I've owned three cars in the driveway as a single person. You know, these were things I did in my 20s and my 30s that were insane in hindsight, but I was attached to worth and money and, you know, I want. That was the symbol and that was the, you know, how I was raised up in corporate is, you have, you know, this, this, this and this. So I've done it. So because I've done it, I can hold space for people that can share that story too. And not judge them. So that's what's needed.

[A]

Just, just say empathy, curiosity and empathy.

[B]

That is, people don't often know what that is. So that's why I say you got to be curious. Like, hey, what's going on? Versus, hey, what's wrong? Like, hey, buck up.

[A]

You know, it's hard to have empathy without being curious about yourself. Well, initially about yourself. Yeah. And then the other people, like you said.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

By the way, real quick to find your TED talk, I think, should they just go to Ted.com and look up Tammy Lally?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

All right, so everyone Ted t dashed.com and t a Tammy money shame. It's right L A, L, L, Y. You'll see.

[B]

Also go to my website, which is my name, Tammy Lally. It's. There's a link to it there.

[A]

Yep. And we have that in the, in the show notes. Tell me about 90 seconds. We're going to continue this conversation. We're going to explore this relationship with money concept a little bit more. I'm going to allow myself to be a little vulnerable. This should be interesting. And have you helped me learn about my relationship with money? And so as we're going to make this real as we can make it, but first, let's take a brief pause to listen to a word from our sponsor, Pod Rocket Influence Academy, brought to you by Proudmouth. First, they make this podcast possible, and their core business is helping financial advisors accelerate their influence through marketing activities like podcasting. This podcast is sponsored by Proudmouth, the Influence Accelerators. It's tough to be seen as an expert if you're spending most of your time as a salesperson. That's why we help industry experts like you spend less time selling and more time advising. By turning you into a trusted subject matter authority, we help amplify your influence over a growing audience of magnetically attracted fans who will chase you down. Instead, visit proudmouth.com to learn more. I'd be remiss if I didn't at least mention the three ways I work with financial advisors. First, I have my Katz Academy for relationship marketing. Some advisors go through the academy all on their own and some add a bit of coaching with me to make sure they maximize their results. To learn more, go to the katesacademy.com that's thekatesacademy.com in the show notes. Second, yes, I have several coaching programs designed to help you acquire more right fit clients through more relevant messaging, attracting ideal clients through reputation marketing, and multiplying your best clients, referrals and personal Introductions. To learn more, go to coachcates.com and third, I love sharing my proven strategies and methods in live forums such as speaking at conferences and virtual presentations. If you're part of an organization that brings in experts such as myself, I'd love to hear from you. Shoot me an email@bill catesferralcoach coach.com that's bill catesferralcoach.com now back to my conversation with my featured guest, Tammy Lally, CMC L U T C F. Tammy is a certified money coach, financial planner, Ted speaker, and author of the book Money Detox. So, Tammy, if any of our listeners would like to learn more about the work you do and how you even help other advisors help their clients, what would be the best way for them to proceed?

[B]

Give me a call.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That's easy, right?

[A]

And want you to read your phone number out to us and we'll have it and we'll put in the show notes.

[B]

Sure. 904-536-7944.

[A]

And I have to say, you're the first guest who's actually shared their phone number, which is cool, though. But that, that's the best connection. That's where people share.

[B]

It's on the Internet. I mean, it's on my website. I encourage people to call, Listen, we.

[A]

Know where to call.

[B]

I'm in the, I'm in the business of people need help right away. So, you know, having a phone number and having somebody to call, you know, that's the, that's the personal touch that I, I like people to know is that there's somebody here.

[A]

So as promised, let's talk more about the fact that everyone has a relationship with money. We know that. We know that money intersects every aspects of one's life. So whatever your relationship with money is, also intertwines with every aspect in your life. It's complicated. Let's talk about that a little bit. You know, some people have a sense of their relationship to money. Some are clueless, some are introspective, some aren't. Put a little more meat on that bone for us.

[B]

Say more.

[A]

Well, okay, so I'll tell you my relationship. Let's, let's get to it. I have anxiety around money. I have enough money. I have plenty of money. I got started late. No one taught me about compounding and all the neat things that you should be doing with money to have plenty when you retire. But I did catch up and I maximized at one point, I had a divine benefit plan, certainly 401. You know, Ria, you know, profit sharing, you name it, had it all. So I was able to catch up nicely. And I still have anxiety around money. I also know that I have a little bit of esteem around it. I can't say that it's a huge amount of who I am, but I, but I do sense it. I am aware of the house I live in. I am aware of the car that I drive and, and how my ego is invested in that a little bit. Again, I think I have a pretty healthy perspective on it because at least I'm aware of it. And I, and I try not to let it, you know, ruled me. I don't overspend. I don't have, you know, a Rolls Royce instead of a Cadillac or Lexus. Nonetheless, I know that that's there. So maybe there's a little meat for you to chew on.

[B]

So what's the anxiety say?

[A]

Yeah, I, I think it's wondering. It's, it's probably classic worrying. Do, do I have enough?

[B]

I would just put a period right there because I, I think that's, to keep it very simple, is we are just telling ourselves a story that's on repeat about that creates the feelings that we experience and which then causes us to go out and, you know, take action and behaviors around what we're saying to ourselves, what we're thinking about ourselves. Right? So the most powerful thing anybody could do is just ask themselves, what am I saying about myself? So if I feel anxious, okay, what you're saying is, do I have enough? So an easy way into that is, well, let's look. Do you have enough? Right. So if the worry is I don't have enough, then you go to the facts. So what are the facts? So if you were to look at your retirement accounts, if you were to look at your bank account, if you were to look at what you liquid cash earnings you have, savings you have, do you have enough to cover your current lifestyle on a month to month basis for the next, you know, number of years?

[A]

Yes, I do.

[B]

So then, so if you keep it simple, right? If you just keep it super simple so the facts are true. Yeah, I do. So sometimes checking the facts will help people relax. Like. Okay, all right, so now what is it? Now what is it? If the facts are the facts and the money is there, now what is it?

[A]

Oh, what, what occurs to me actually as you talk about this is what is enough mean? Okay, enough for what? Enough to cover all my basic costs for as long as I live? Yes. Enough to do other things. I would like to do in life, but maybe don't have enough money to do. No, probably don't. You know, there's, there's a limit to what I can do.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You know, and, and maybe, you know, a psychologist might say, well, that comes into other feelings of not enoughness. Right. I'm. I'm projecting. I'm projecting it onto money. And maybe there's a deeper not enoughness going on. I don't know. I don't know how deep you want to get with this. But.

[B]

Yeah, well, I think you're. I think you're totally. That's the track, right? That's the track. So if you feel that you, you know, I don't have enough, and you check, check the facts. The facts say, oh, there's enough money. But then if you define what's enough. So if it's, I want to be able to do xyz. Xyz, and you decide and you determine, hey, well, I don't have enough to do this, this and this, then okay, how do I solve that problem? Right. Then you can go into the. Solve around it. But if it's a feeling of a worry, that's a constant companion, like wearing, Wearing a sweater. Yes. You know, it's a constant companion that sits on your shoulder and asks you on a regular basis, you know, if we're going to be okay. Are we going to be okay? Are we going to be okay? Well, then it's. Then it's more part of the, the psyche nervous system that requires deeper introspection. Yeah. And that's what a money detox is. So if you go back to the book, the money detox helps you go into, what is that like? What's that? And then looking at, what did I hear as a kid? What am I attaching to the money? You know, what's the attachment? Did I grow up, you know, where there was a lot of pressure for money with my parents or in the community or whatever? Did we have a lot and am I embarrassed? And when people didn't have enough? But the worry can also be. Here's the great thing about where we are today with mental health is we now talk about, oh, well, maybe there's some genetic anxiety disorder. So we know that we have a nervous system that is largely indicative of genetics, family genetics. And then we also have traumas in life that can be placed on top with added stress, chronic stress. Living in the United States and you've lived a while. You know, there's a lot of stress. You've had a lot of life, and you've gone through a lot of change in one lifetime. I mean, we've gone through a tremendous amount of change in one lifetime in terms of, with, with money in society. You know, we used to have like a handful of millionaires. Now we have over a thousand billionaires in the United States. You know, millionaire is nothing anymore. Like if you're not a millionaire, you got, you know, people think, oh my God, there's, if I don't have a million dollars, I have nothing. So, you know, I do think that that's the, that's the money detox piece of this is that chronic worry is unhealthy, unhealthy, unhealthy. And it will lead us to have a little bit more to drink, have a little bit more to eat, do a little bit more this or depression or sleep longer, whatever it is. So it's something to just keep for everybody. Anybody listening? Not you particularly, Bill, but it's, you know, when there's something that is a companion, you got to look at it deeper.

[A]

Yeah, there's something I want, we're almost out of time here, but there's one thing I want to run by quickly because I, I'm, I think I mentioned to you I'm writing a book about money around beliefs around money. And one thing I've learned about is this concept of scarcity. And I, I believe that as humans we are actually born into scarcity thinking. And what I mean by that is that our reptilian brain, our amygdala, you know, the, the prehistoric human, if you will, and our brain hasn't changed a whole lot since then. Is, is there going to be enough food? Is there going to be enough heat or, or water? And so it's kind of like baked in and doesn't mean we can't overcome that over time, but it's a bit of a battle because it's kind of baked in. And I know that a lot of people bring scarcity thinking to money. You know, do I have enough? Will I have enough? I don't have enough, yada, yada. I'm just curious your, your take your thoughts on that real quick.

[B]

I believe what you're saying is true for many people. I do believe that people do feel like there isn't enough, that they live in a not enough environment or mindset. And that's just because they for, have forgotten, you know, who they are and what they're capable of and they've bought into a belief system that our country relies on. You know, we do live in a capitalistic country. We live in a world where all the messaging that we receive everywhere you go is that you there isn't enough. There isn't enough. And we live in a fear culture. We live in a fear news media cycle. So sure, all of that's true. But if you did a money detox and you stepped back and you started looking at yourself and how resourceful you are and how extraordinary you can humans are that they can rise to the occasion, you will learn and you will be out of demonstration of what you are capable of doing, that you have enough and you are enough. And that is the essence of the work that I am putting out there and that I've done myself. I just want that to be really clear, is that this is about returning to yourself. This is getting out of the programming that the culture of the United States of America has created and coming back to yourself. And if you don't know who that person is, no problem. You just keep going inward. You get quieter and stiller and stop buying and stop extroverting and go in and do meditate and do nature and do all the unplugged things that you hear about on social media. Do those, they work and find yourself and get out of that thinking. Because if you stay there, you're, you're, you're going to be a follower, you're going to do what they say. You're, you know, you're just going to look for the leader. And that doesn't work for the human experience, the human soul. So I absolutely do not believe that. I do believe that I am enough, have enough and, and that comes from knowing who I am, being connected to myself, you know, and that's, that's the money detox that we all need.

[A]

Yeah. In some form or another. I, I would agree. Very wise. Thank you. A little different than our other interviews, but also still extremely, incredibly practical and important. My featured guest today's show has been Tammy Lally, CMC LUTCF Certified Money Coach, Financial Planner, TEDx speaker with a humongous. Over 2 million folks have watched her video, author of the book Money Detox. Tammy, thank you for the value you provided today to your giving nature and for the important work that you're doing with your clients. Thank you.

[B]

Oh, you're welcome. And thank you for the work that you're doing.

[A]

You bet. To you, the listener of this podcast may ask a small favor. If you like this episode or like the podcast in general, please leave a five star review on the platform you're listening to now. Not all platforms have a place for reviews, but if yours does, I'd be grateful. Thank you. If you haven't already, there are four places I want you to visit in addition to Tammy's ted [e-mail] Language of referrals for my latest book, Language of Referrals referralcoach.com forward/resources I met at the mentioned at the top of the show referralcoach.com forward/resources the Kate's Academy for our comprehensive relationship marketing, coaching and training and Coach Kate's coachkates.com for our new coaching programs. This is Bill Cates reminding you that ideas do not make you more successful. Only acting on those ideas will bring you the success you desire. Thanks for stopping by. Thank you for listening to the Top Advisor podcast brought to you by Proud Mouse Pot Rocket Academy. I encourage you to Visit my website, referralcoach.com for links to my books, online courses, and to register for the Katz Academy.