Top Advisor Podcast | Episode #80

"Building Strong Strategic Partnerships with Duncan MacPherson"
Host: Bill Cates | Guest: Duncan MacPherson
Date: January 8, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of the Top Advisor Podcast with Bill Cates features Duncan MacPherson, CEO of Pareto Systems and renowned thought leader in the financial services industry. The conversation centers on a transformative approach to building valuable, strategic partnerships—not just traditional “centers of influence” (COIs)—to drive referrals, deepen client relationships, and achieve sustainable business growth for advisors. The two discuss why language and mindset matter, how to develop a high-impact support network, and tactical steps for cultivating authentic, mutually beneficial relationships.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Duncan's Background and Mission

• [03:54–08:25]
  • Duncan’s entry into financial services “accidentally” via marketing.
  • Appreciation of entrepreneurialism within financial advice: “The entrepreneur is such a noble position in the community.”
  • His guiding principle: balancing purpose (why) and process (how)—enlightened advisors blend both for business sustainability and client impact.

Rethinking “Centers of Influence” (COIs)

• [09:09–12:33]
  • Duncan strongly advocates retiring the term “center of influence” in favor of “strategic partner” or “Value Added Support Team (VAST).”
  • Quote:
    “The words matter. The industry has shifted so dramatically… the winner [with COI] is ‘I’m engaging in this relationship for referrals.’ That’s the effect, not the cause.”
    — Duncan, [09:19]
  • The focus must be on creating a network that’s proprietary, integrated, and client-centric—“referring in, not out.”

The "Empty Chair" Analogy & Professionalism

• [09:19–13:48]
  • Advisors should operate as though their clients are always present and listening (“open kitchen” transparency).
  • “Are you proud of how you talk about what you do, even when a client isn't there?”
  • The language you use internally shapes your client-facing professionalism and referability.

Who Makes the Best Strategic Partners?

• [15:08–17:07]
  • Beyond the usual (CPAs, attorneys), Duncan suggests entrepreneurial business owners as powerful partners—those who “operate without a safety net.”
  • Key Insight: The best advocates refer because not doing so would be a disservice to the client, not merely to benefit the advisor.

Strategic Partners vs. Advocates: The Distinction

• [17:07–25:46]
  • Duncan distinguishes:
    • Strategic partners / VAST members: Collaborate on client service as an integrated team.
    • Advocates/influencers: Spread your reputation and facilitate introductions due to deep trust.
  • Advisors should “narrow your focus, widen your scope”—clearly define ideal clients but expand your value’s reach.

Using AI and “Perspective-Taking” for Preparation

• [21:02–22:12]
  • Duncan recommends using tools like ChatGPT:
    “Go onto ChatGPT and just simply say, ‘I'm a high net worth investor, just sold my business—what should I ask a financial professional?’ ...Then look at the feedback—it's incredible.”
    — Duncan, [19:06]
  • Advisors should be ready to answer deeper client questions on service model, alternative investments, and team collaboration.

Practical Scenario: Building Out the VAST

• [31:06–36:19]

  • Begin with client needs and elevating their experience; immerse in serving, not selling.

  • Blueprint Steps:

    1. Inform clients that you’re enhancing your process and want to review their other service providers.
    2. Ask for permission to connect with those providers to ensure integration for the client’s benefit.
    3. Introduce yourself to the partner—discuss only how to serve the client better, not referrals.
    4. Ask each partner, “If I ever have an opportunity to introduce you, how would you like me to describe you?”—opening reciprocity.
    5. Be prepared to articulate your own value succinctly: who you serve, what you help them achieve, and your unique process.

  • Quote:
    “There’s no conversation about referrals. It's, ‘Let’s get together and talk about how we can raise the bar.’ ...it’s an attract, not chase dynamic. I want advisors to think of themselves as farmers, not hunters.”
    — Duncan, [34:14], [35:55]

The “Work Optional” Lifestyle & Building Value

• [31:06–39:54]
  • Advisors should strive to liberate clients so they can “go to work because they want to, not because they have to.”
  • Building lasting relationships by integrating across service areas “competitor proofs” the firm, fostering multi-generational loyalty.
  • “Busy doesn’t mean productive... Productivity comes from having a plan and a process and the ability to communicate that to clients.”
    —Bill Cates, [37:53];
    Expanded on by Duncan with metaphors of sand in an hourglass (“Are you building something, or just trading time for money?”).

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On transparency and professionalism:
  “The best restaurants are an open kitchen... fully transparent. Would you say ‘I eat what I kill’ to a client? Of course not.” — Duncan, [09:19]

• On shifting from "centers of influence" to strategic partners:
  “I'm not referring someone out, I'm engaging them in for the purpose of what it does for a client.” — Duncan, [11:00]

• On advocacy:
  “An advocate doesn’t refer someone to you because they’re trying to help you grow your business. They feel they’re doing somebody a disservice by not introducing them to you.” — Duncan, [16:00]

• On integrative service:
  “If a financial professional fully builds out their value added support team… they're competitor proofing the relationship.” — Duncan, [24:18]

• On process and productivity:
  “Don’t major in minor things, don’t mistake movement for achievement. Everybody’s busy. Busy doing what? Are you trading your time for money or are you building something?” — Duncan, [38:30]

Important Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------------------|-------------| | Duncan's Background & Entrepreneurial Focus | 04:10–08:25 | | Language Matters: Strategic Partners, Not COI | 09:09–12:33 | | The "Empty Chair"/Transparency | 09:19–13:48 | | Who Makes Best Partners/Advocates | 15:08–17:07 | | Strategic Partners vs. Advocates | 17:07–25:46 | | Using AI for Perspective-Taking | 19:06–21:02 | | Building VAST, Step-by-Step | 31:06–36:19 | | Value Proposition in Strategic Partnerships | 34:14–35:55 | | Being Productive vs. Being Busy | 37:53–39:54 |

Final Takeaways

• Replace transactional, sales-focused mindsets with integrative, collaborative approaches that center on elevating the client experience.
• Language shapes perception: “Strategic partner” and “Value Added Support Team” communicate intention and value.
• Develop partnerships by focusing on client outcomes first and seeking to integrate professionals to serve, not just to gain referrals.
• Start relationship-building with “How do we serve our client in common better?” and be prepared to articulate your value succinctly and authentically.
• True productivity comes from process, planning, and purpose, not just busyness.

Further Resources:

• Connect with Duncan on LinkedIn and at paretosystems.com
• Books: The Advisor Playbook and The Blue Square Method by Duncan MacPherson
• For Bill Cates’ scripts, guides, and more: referralcoach.com/resources

Summary prepared for financial professionals seeking actionable insights and best practices from industry leaders. Perfect for those looking to deepen referral networks, enhance client experience, and build sustainable, impactful advisory businesses.