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Top Advisor Podcast
#83 Charging for Financial Planning Services with Steven Kaplan & Ben Skupp
00:43:56
What if you could cut through the noise and offer your clients true value beyond just product performance? In this episode, Referral Coach Bill Cates interviews co-founders of Holistic Financial Planners Steven Kaplan and Benjamin Skupp about charging ...
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- [00:04]
A
Welcome to the Top Advisor podcast, brought to you by Proudmouth's Pod Rocket Academy. I'm your host, Bill Cates, creator of the Cates Academy for Relationship Marketing. In each episode, I interview one of our industry's top performers, getting them to pass on their secrets to success to you so that you can impact more lives and generate more income. Now onto the show. Welcome.
- [00:29]
B
Welcome.
- [00:30]
A
Today's show is going to focus on charging for your advice. With my featured guests, Ben Scupp and Stephen Kaplan, we'll explore the nuts and bolts of charging for advice, showing how this approach might serve the highest good of both clients and advisors alike. But before we dive into this with our featured guest, I want to let you know about some free resources that I invite you to retrieve. After you've listened to today's interview, you'll find checklists, guides, videos and other tools. Simply go to referralcoach.com forward/resources. Now write this down unless you're driving. That's referralcoach.com forward/resources and it's also in the show notes. And while you're there, make sure you sign up for our free weekly tips. We're always sharing best practices and we'll notify you of our newest podcast interviews as they go live. And while these are free to you, I think you'll find them quite valuable. The Top Advisor podcast is sponsored by the folks at Proudmouth who bring you the Pod Rocket Influence Academy. And this episode is sponsored by Ironclad Family, who bring you Ivault X, a financial advisor enablement tool focused on upping your game as a holistic advisor, as well as Harbor Capital, an asset manager known for curating an intentionally selected suite of active ETFs from boutique managers. And now, on with today's show. My featured guests for today's show are Ben Scupp, CHFC and Stephen Kaplan, chfc, co founders of Holistic Financial Planners and Mindshift Financial Coaching. Ben and Steven understand the challenges advisors faced firsthand. They're in the trenches like you, and everything they teach and will share with you today has been vigorously tested in their own practice. Stephen and Ben have delivered over 500 financial plans and collected more than $2 million in planning fees. Equally important, they've created a more fulfilling business where, get this, they work a four day week enjoying Fridays off without sacrificing client experience. They each take five weeks of vacation without taking work with them. Now that appeals to me. They created the time to run a second business while generating seven figures in their financial planning practice. They Sleep well at night knowing their clients have clear expectations of what to expect from their planning practice. And they coach their kids sports teams. These guys have figured it out. And in their business model, they receive more thank yous and expressions of appreciation from clients than ever before. Committed to helping other advisors, Ben and Steven have shared their approach with over 500 advisors through their financial planning school, which we'll discuss during the course of the show. That's a long prelude. Ben Scupp and Steven Kaplan zooming in from greater Philadelphia. Welcome to Top Advisor podcast.
- [03:26]
C
Thank you for having us, Bill. Excited to be part of the group?
- [03:30]
A
Yeah, it's great to have you guys. I love the model that you've set up, how you've been able to create free time for yourself. Still do a great job for your clients. It's an inspiration. To be honest, I wish I could take that much time off. So, gentlemen, I think the most logical place to start would be for you to kind of walk us through your journey of transitioning to a model where you charge for advice, you charge for planning. What inspired the shift? What are some of the guiding principles or overarching beliefs that drove this decision and continue to drive your mission?
- [04:05]
B
Sure, I'll start with that. Bill, please. My. My story actually starts with my father. My father was an insurance producer for travelers in New England dating all the way back to the 70s, 80s and 90s, ultimately with with MetLife. But when I was a senior in high school, he came home from work one day and he said, my mom doesn't work. He goes, I'm not going into work tomorrow and I don't know when I'm going back now. I didn't really understand what was going on or anything at that time. All I knew was I was supposed to be going to college next year and all that. And how is this all going to work? But what was happening was my father was essentially going through a nervous breakdown and ended up going out on mental disability due to burnout from being an insurance producer. The hamster on a wheel, nature of it ultimately caught up with him. He was successful, one of the top disability producers in all New England. And obviously that, that stuck with me. And so as I started my career, I knew, well, I don't want to do that. Right? I don't, I don't. Whatever that was, I'm not too interested in. However, I got steered to the wealth management, the money management side of the equation. And so as I approach my 20th year here in business, I predominantly did the wealth management for those first 10 years. And what I found out was.
- [05:48]
A
The.
- [05:48]
B
Grass may always be greener, but it's just as hard to mow that it's fraught with. That business model is fraught with its own pitfalls and issues. So kind of at the halfway point made, we made the shift thank to getting introduced to one of the top financial planners in the country, changing how I looked at the business, changing my mind and, and I never looked back.
- [06:16]
A
I'm wondering before we ask Ben to, to share his story and, and what motivates him around this with your dad, have you ever reflected on the fact that maybe because it was a kind of a product driven business model. Right. You said he was a top di. I wonder if that's more common with a product driven approach to serving clients because you're always looking for the next sale in most cases. Correct?
- [06:45]
B
Yeah. Yeah. My father was one of those insurance producers that would help them though with, with everything that he could. So he's dealing with questions that are outside the scope of, of the insurance policy that he has and always went above and beyond. And just ultimately it all caught up with him because as great a person and producer he was, he was really lacking in the CEO mindset and running the business and setting up some boundaries and rules for himself and his clients and, and thinking with the end in mind, you know, and I'm grateful that he paved that path and stepped on all those landmines, you know, for all of us so we could figure out what not to do. But it cost him a lot. But yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Certainly without that with a product driven model, you know, I don't know how he made it that long.
- [07:46]
A
Right, right, right. Well, and some do, you know, it's not, there's as we know, not one way, but certainly that's an important lesson for you. Ben, how about yourself? What kind of drove you to the model that you're doing now? What's, what's a little bit of your story, if you don't mind?
- [08:02]
C
Yeah. So 20 years in business. First 10 years I say I did it the hard way, similar to Steve's father. And then I shifted the big keys for me that first 10 year, very, very successful financially. It just on the verge of burnout and it just. I needed a better way. And to your point, Bill, there's many different models. So I went from starting with doing the insurance, then I partnered with Steve where we'd offer insurance and investments. But I still felt as though we weren't running the business. I felt as though it was out of control. And we had very undefined rules with our clients. We really didn't know our role. And so when we were presented with the idea to charge for our time, that is charge for planning, it really, it was a step ago. What if this works? What if, what if we can define our role? What if we can define the client's role and we have the ability for them to opt in to planning or to be product driven? And what would that mean to us and our anxiety? So my why really came from I want to enjoy my journey of life and I wasn't. And I was on the verge of what Steve's father went through. So that's why I made the shift.
- [09:27]
A
So let's get to the nitty gritty here. Charging for planning. Now, this is not new. It's been around for a while. Some, some advisors wonder should I charge? Some don't charge. Right. And, and the, the type of planning that you see advisors doing is all over the map as well. Do I charge? Am I charging enough? I'm curious how this plays out day to day. What, what does the practice look like? And I know you have some benefits around this for that work in your favor as well as the client's favor. So if you could, you know, wax poetic on, on what this looks like on a day to day basis.
- [10:05]
C
Yeah, so, so, so old way, out of control. Old way, putting out fires, not knowing how often we're supposed to speak with the client, we'd actually ask them. The old way we go, how often do you want to talk? So they're running our business and our life, the new world. Now, as the CEO mindset, we set the rules. If we're doing planning, we're talking quarterly. Okay. We're also. The old way was performance based. How did the assets perform? So we were driven by performance. The new way is projection based. It's having enough for the client's journey and really defining that through the projections of the plan. So it's taken out a lot of anxiety by really setting the line of what our role is and what we're asking them to do. One of the big pieces that we've seen from doing this, there's a transfer that occurs that's. It's pretty special is a client will take their stress and anxiety and that will be transferred to us. We transfer confidence back. And when you do that.
- [11:26]
B
That'S what's.
- [11:27]
C
Extinguishing the fires because they know you're there overseeing anything that hits them financially. They know that you're going to Talk to him next quarter. So I don't need to call Ben and go. I'm losing sleep. We're going to address it in the quarterly. Certainly they're welcome to. But it reduces that.
- [11:46]
A
You mentioned transfer of anxiety, and here we. We found that you, Stephen especially, didn't want to have a business model based on anxiety. So I get that you're relieving their stress. They're kind of transferring it to you. But clearly, because of your mindset and your model, you're not really taking on their stress, are you? You're more on a removing it from them and displacing or something. I'm not sure what the right word is.
- [12:17]
C
I like that. That's a great way to put it, Bill. Certainly we're not ridden with. With all the stress, but through leading with the projections and the planning, we can see where they're headed. And so we can deliver that confidence back to them or tell them, here's what's needed to catch up if we're behind. Right.
- [12:37]
A
I mean, I think, if you think about it, one of the key benefits that any good financial advisor wants to bring to the table is relieving stress, reducing stress. Right. Creating clarity, creating confidence, creating peace of mind and less stress. All that. Those are the ultimate benefits I think, that we're all trying to achieve. So how do you ensure your clients perceive the value in paying a separate fee for advice distinct from an asset management fee? So there's two main fees. There could be a third. If they're not. I mean, what if there's a protection product? Is there a commission for that as well? So are there three places?
- [13:21]
B
Yeah, great question. And this is. This is where the rubber meets the road on this. Because of how advisors are trained and brought up in the industry, Ben and I were trained not to lead with charging for our time, expertise, and advice. We were trained to say the product is the value or the return is the value. And unfortunately, that is not the case. And we've got the cart before the horse. So what we had to do, the mindset that we have and that we instill in the people that come through our school is pretend for a moment that you couldn't make money by implementing a product or managing assets. Almost like pretend you didn't have your licenses for, like a moment and then go, okay, and me, I started this right out of college. I have no other skills. So this is very real for me. Real for me is I go, how would I provide for my family? What could I do? And I go, Well, I know an awful lot about personal finance and investing and insurance. I could help someone with all of that that's in their life. All decisions that impact them financially, everything in their life with a dollar sign and they could pay me just to help.
- [14:55]
A
Right.
- [14:55]
B
And that's the mindset. And if that becomes our initial offering, then everything else that comes after that is, is ancillary and just, just needed. It's like the medication, right? We have to do all the diagnostics, all of that. Okay, here, the medication, that, that, that's obvious, right? That if there's a product needs to be implemented, fine. They don't have to do it with us, by the way. We don't force them to. It's just most people like their life simpler, right? So less people involved the better. So that, number one was that mindset of that and then number two was making sure I had separate and distinct offerings. For those that want financial planning, which we lovingly call financial management oversight, or for those that go, I don't need all of that, or I don't want all of that right now, just help me with X or Y being X, I need, you know, I just had a baby, I need insurance. I can't deal with all that right now. Just, just protect my family. That's fine, we'll help you with that. But we may not be addressing everything in your life at that time.
- [16:12]
A
Right?
- [16:12]
B
Hey, I just left my employer. I can't like Mike. I can't leave my 401k there. I left on bad terms. I'm miserable. Just help me get this rolled over. We'll deal with everything else on the, we can deal with everything else at a later date. That's fine. And they get a very different version of Ben and Steve than those that are doing the financial management oversight. So we know that. And they're always welcome to join, they're always welcome to hop off as well. So the problem is most, most advisors, right, don't have separate distinct business models. They conflate them and therefore they're kind of stuck typically giving away some sort of informal planning for, for free. Just trying to hang on to the assets.
- [16:58]
A
So I have a few follow ups here. Obviously it's, it's, it's in how you frame it. I think this is always important. Even when I work with newer advisors who may be life insurance based, DI based, Medicare based, whatever. Right, whatever. They're leading with something, they do more that they make sure even if they're leading with a product, even their, you know, leads are getting Created whatever based on a product that they frame all that they do at the very beginning and say we're going to help with this now because this is your immediate pressing need and we want to relieve the stress around this. And here's how it fits into a larger frame of proper financial planning or profit, you know, management. Do you, do you do that or in some form, something like that.
- [17:52]
C
Can I give, Let me. Maybe it'll help if I give some clarity on the two offerings. Yes, please meet with, with a prospect. You know, what we coach doing what we live is our language and mindset has to be simple and it has to be transparent to the prospect so they can opt in to what Steve called financial management oversight. Here is the definition of it. We look at anything that hits our client financially, anything that has a dollar sign assigned to it, we're looking at. We take the academics of financial planning and we marry it with behavioral finance. If something's inefficient, we fix it and make it efficient. That's oversight. Okay, for. We charge by the year to do our work. Very intimate relationship. We make sure everything's covered, all I's are dotted, t's are crossed. If somebody just wants investment only, it's very simple. It's one sentence. We look to get the most return within your risk tolerance. Okay, so we have two. So if they go, hey, just one investment, that's fine. We don't solve enough. We don't solve all the life stuff that you may not need it. But if you do, that's oversight. If you just need help on the investment management, then that's it and that's that. I think that's the big problem we notice with coaching, you know, a few hundred advisors over the last five years, they're, they're insecure and don't really have a definition of what that investment only offering is. So they start throwing in everything and that's where, where it really gets muddy the water.
- [19:40]
A
Have you ever had a situation, I would think you have, where you're just doing investment management or you're helping someone with life insurance or you know, some narrower scope of what, what you offer. But in that relationship you realize they really would be better off with financial management oversight.
- [20:02]
C
Sure.
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A
Do you invite them into that model?
- [20:04]
C
We do. We, we allow them to choose. So this isn't a hard sale.
- [20:10]
A
But they're, but they're aware and you invite them in.
- [20:12]
C
Obviously, yeah, they can accept the invite or they can decline it, but we go see to us it's unfair to Them and us, if we try to back in the napkin, their life. Right. It's only their life we're talking about here. We want to make sure we get it right. If we do, they've got to commit to it and we've got to commit to it. Remember the old way I said there were no rules because there was no commitment.
- [20:39]
A
Right.
- [20:40]
C
This way they write a check, they're committing to the advisor, and they're committing to themselves, and then we accept that check, so we're committing to them.
- [20:52]
A
You know, there's something else that occurred to me as you were talking about, you know, the product. People get paid through a commission on a product. Yeah. And if that's all they're doing, if they're not thinking about financial management oversight, if they're not thinking about planning and overview, then just by the way they get paid, they probably mistakenly think, well, that's my value. Right. I'm getting paid by selling a product, so that's my value. It's kind of an almost an unconscious thing that I think inhibits some financial professionals. Is that making sense?
- [21:26]
C
It does. And it stops people from converting to this model because they've disconnected what the value is.
- [21:34]
A
Yeah.
- [21:34]
C
All the studies you look at Vanguard, all these studies say the advisor is the value, the behavioral is the value. But yet we've been trained and coached and connect the dots with the product, the dividend, the interest rate, whatever it is, is the value.
- [21:49]
A
Well, and that's. And all the companies are still training their people that way. I mean, you know, when I speak in an event, I'll be some. I'll be talking about practice management, building, you know, your business with referrals. All the various things I teach, and then most of the other speakers are product oriented. That part of it has to do with the fact that they're being sponsored. You know, the sessions are being sponsored by manufacturers of product, but they're inundated with that. And I think that consciously or unconsciously makes people believe that that's their value. Yeah. Now, obviously that's part of the value, isn't it? Because the product does the work, does the financial work, if you will. But without the advisor helping to direct and helping the decision process, all that other stuff is kind of mush and meaningless, I guess.
- [22:38]
C
I think if you connect it, just like Steve said, the doctor and the medication. The medication has value, but the doctors got to sort through the right medication for you.
- [22:47]
A
Right.
- [22:47]
C
That's. That's the real thing here.
- [22:49]
A
Yeah, I think. I think that's a great way to think about it. And there's money exchanged for both.
- [22:55]
C
Yeah.
- [22:57]
A
So Ben, Steven, a couple minutes. We're going to continue the conversation. I have several more questions, such as how you approach your clients with this fee for advice model and how they reacted. I also want to hear what advice you have for our listeners who are intrigued with this approach and how you work with other advisors to guide them into this possible transition. But first, let's take a brief pause to listen to a few words from our sponsors.
- [23:23]
B
This podcast is sponsored by Proudmouth, the Influence Accelerators. If you're like our clients, you want to spend more time educating people and less time selling. That's why we turn Main street experts like you into trusted mainstream authorities. We help you amplify your influence over a growing audience of magnetically attracted fans who will chase you down instead. Visit proudmouth.com to learn more.
- [23:49]
A
I want to take about 90 seconds to talk about one of the big trends in our industry that is holistic financial planning. Kind of fits the model we're talking about here today. As you know, holistic planning is not just about investments or insurance. As we're discussing, holistic planning is about creating a master plan where everything works together. Investments, insurance, taxes, estate planning, even your clients personal goals and values come into play. And many clients are loving this dynamic where their advisor connects all the dots for them, just as our guests do here today. The more comprehensive approach leads to clients gaining greater clarity, confidence, peace of mind, which is what all clients ultimately want. Now there's a platform that makes it easier for advisors to engage in true holistic planning. It's called the ivault X from the folks at Ironclad Family. Ivault X is a one stop digital vault for all your clients financial documents, personal records and even legacy plans. You help your clients get organized and secure for which they will love you. Your next step is to grab your free guide on how to make becoming a more holistic advisor easier for you and your team. Simply go to holisticadvisorguide.com to access this free guide. That's www.holisticadvisorguide.com. this link is also in the show notes. IVAultX may just be your key to bringing integrated financial guidance and the resulting peace of mind to your clients and their families. This episode is also brought to you by Harbor Capital Advisors. Let's Talk about Harbor's LinkedIn page for a minute because they're giving you direct access to some of the top minds from across the industry. Here are some facts about Harbor Capital's team, their CIO brings deep experience from his days at JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs. Their head of ETFs has worked on the launch of many ETFs around the world. One of their portfolio managers leverages his prior experience at the Fed to color his opinion on monetary policy and the macroeconomic environment. And their Capital Markets expert breaks down complex market structures and offers ETF101 insights with a side of unexpected musical references. He also just happened to interview me for Harbor's podcast the Active Advisor. You'll see my episode posted in their LinkedIn feed, but don't take my word for it. You can check out Harbor Capital Advisors on LinkedIn and listen to my podcast episode while you're there. The views expressed herein are those of Bill Case at the time of the comments were made. They may not be reflective of their current opinions, are subject to change without prior notice, and and should not be considered investment advice. All investments involve risk, including loss of capital. Harbor Capital Advisors, Inc. Is not affiliated with Referral Coach or the Top Advisor podcast. Foreside Fund Services, LLC is the distributor of the Harbor ETFs 3880661. And now back to my conversation with my featured guests, Stephen Kaplan and Ben Scupp, co founders of Holistic Financial Planners and and Mind Shift Financial Coaching. Gentlemen, as we get back to our discussion, quickly tell our listeners how you work with a select group of of advisors and how they can learn more about that part of your business.
- [27:16]
C
The piece of the business that Bill just the, the, the one thing that needs clarity is really like I said earlier, is on those simple offerings is to have the advisor equipped with the language and the mindset that hey, I have it in blue, meaning you could do oversight, look at everything that hit you financially, or I could just stay in my lane or I'm not a fit at all. We've got to give up front in the first minute the agenda to the prospect and what a potential outcome is and then give them what the offering is. And I think there needs to be clarity from the Advisor on those offerings is very important. And so at mindshift what we do is we use the language that we've that we've used in the field over the last 20 years that sets it up from meeting one where at meeting one here's how I work. You're going to tell me what's best for you though. So you're going to give that prospect the power to tell me what's best. If they choose oversight, what we do is we charge by the year to do that work. We have to give them clarity at the end of the year, what happens. There's really three outcomes at the end of the year. So we talk about this in the first meeting, the three outcomes at the end of the year, they decide, wow, this was phenomenal. The coaching, handholding, the oversight, it was great. But I don't need it next year. Maybe I just need oversight of the investments. If that's the case, we just meet once a year. No out of pocket, charge two, you go, wow, this was phenomenal. But I need this ongoing, the coaching and handholding and we charge the same as we do the first year unless it becomes more complex and or more difficult. Third outcome at the end of the year, client looks back and goes, this was horrible, I want to fire you. I've never had it happen. But that's the power that they have. But that's what we teach through the school is how to shift that mindset, how to get what language to use and then how to set up the systems and processes so you can build it.
- [29:39]
A
So it's, it's, it's strategic and tactical and sounds like very tactical when you get the language. I wrote a book called the Language of Referrals. Extremely tactical. But the language truly does make a difference, does it not? It I, I found and I'm curious your reaction that when I'm working with advisors and there may be a strategy that they don't have access to in their brain, their mindset can't act like asking for referrals for instance. But when I give them the language to go, oh, I never thought about saying it that way. Or I could say it that way. It sounds like that's similar to what you do that that language creates the mind shift sometimes, does it not?
- [30:20]
C
That's a great point. I really like that. It does. It does because there was, there's never really an A to B, C to D. Right. And a lot of times the what we're taught the A to B, C to D is is the advisor talking at the prospect. And the shift is that we teach to is hear them is people want to be heard. Right. And so a lot of the language is the great open ended questions or using terms that are an empty bucket. An empty bucket means the reason we don't call it financial planning. That bucket's been filled from commercials to, from previous experiences. I want to use an empty bucket where the prospect's filling it with their pain or what they need help with. So I Like that the language can shift. The mindset I think is. Yeah. Is powerful and very accurate.
- [31:19]
A
Yeah, it can go either way. I mean we could say, look, you got to shift your mindset before you can do this. Well, yeah, but if they don't have a vision or a sense of what that shift actually might look like, how it might play out, then there's resistance there. Before I go any further, I got tons of questions. How does someone, how's an advisor listening to this right now? Reach out to Mind Shift Financial Coaching is. So they. What's the website? I know it's in the, in the show notes, but people don't always go to the show notes, so.
- [31:50]
C
Sure. So. So yeah, so you can go to Mind Shift Financial Coaching and you can go into the financial planning school on the site and then you can schedule a time to meet with us and we'll be happy to talk about the program again. A six month program, it's one hour sessions. Everybody learns differently. So we have the sessions recorded, we have the sessions written down and then we have live sessions. So whichever way you learn best. The coaching in school is meant to be transformational. Okay. We've taken advisors from never charging to charging high five figures. We've charged taking advisors from, you know, charging, I would say dabbling in it up to six figure advisors in just the planning charges and our, the renewal rate that we have and what we Coach to is 80%. You don't get into this just to charge year one. It's too much work, too much of a headache and it's not what I would recommend you do this. So you do the renewals.
- [32:55]
A
Right? Makes sense. Looking ahead, how do you see this model evolving within the financial industry? What do you think that looks like, Steve?
- [33:07]
B
Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's the future because it's the present.
- [33:12]
A
Okay.
- [33:13]
B
It's here. Everyone is aware of it. We're seeing it at the enterprise level for the enterprises that we work with, both in the insurance space and the investment space, that there is a push towards planning. Big push, big financial coming down from the top push. And advisors just need to be equipped with the language and the business model to adapt and to adapt quickly to it. It's going to remain my belief, the present because people need additional bandwidth, plain and simple. The clients are going to gravitate towards this and there's plenty of these fish in the sea which are just people that simply can't get to all of these things. I'm living through it myself. Ben has lived through it himself or I'm 40 years old, two kids getting pulled in a million directions. Ben has three kids. Anyone that is offering me help, my ears perk up. And, and I think as long as we as advisors are leading with help and offering help and saying we are going to take things off your plate, we are going to be a pleasant pain in the butt to make sure you are getting these things done. We're going to, we are going to be the accountability and the follow up on all these things in your life. Financially, they're going to go, that has tremendous value. It has absolutely nothing to do with money management, by the way. It's just stands alone as having value in the eye of the, in the eye of the, of the consumer. And, and therefore, and it's something that I don't necessarily think that the robots can do, do well or that people are going to be comfortable with them doing for a long time. I'm not seeing it yet. I haven't had anyone come back and go, steve, I just found a robot that does what you do. It hasn't happened in 10 years yet. It might, but again, there's just also a level of people that aren't going to be comfortable with it.
- [35:22]
A
So AI has no soul yet eventually.
- [35:27]
B
They may figure that out.
- [35:29]
A
I know when you said people, you know, want help with the word. I heard every time you said that. I'm 40, I kids, I got other. Yeah, they want help, they want relief is what they want.
- [35:40]
B
Time.
- [35:41]
C
Yeah, but what if that relief you go, what if the model goes, I can deliver the relief, the help. And they go, what do you charge?
- [35:51]
A
Right?
- [35:52]
B
Nothing.
- [35:53]
C
What, how do they connect value with that? Well, I hope that you need insurance, I hope that you allow me to do the investments, but I'll do all this stuff for you. How does that connect the dots?
- [36:04]
A
Or it costs nothing. But I know you're going to try to sell me insurance later otherwise. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [36:10]
B
That's not very referable.
- [36:12]
A
No, no, I agree. It's, it's the. Generally speaking, I've seen exceptions, but generally speaking, it is not the product that makes you referable, it's the process. Let's get nitty gritty to the results. Give me a couple of examples of advisors who've been through your program, who've learned what you teach, have shifted their mindset, used the words and some of the results they produce for themselves and their clients, of course. Can you give me a couple examples?
- [36:42]
C
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So last five years that MindShift's been going, we've helped over 500 advisors convert, but one to me, and I know Steve has one on his side that really stands out because he used the language, changed his mindset, lives in a very affluent area, was a successful, successful advisor in the insurance and investment space, but wanted that better way. He went to one client and he charged $100,000 to help for one year. So he used the language of mind shift and he was able to successfully charge six figures. And then from that case, he captured 50 million in investment management, the same language. So to me, it shows. It works at that, that extreme level. Now our marketplace is the mass affluent. We don't deal in that marketplace. So it was great to see. And Steve, I think yours was at the other end of the spectrum of a younger advisor.
- [37:49]
B
Yeah, a young advisor right out of school, 22, 23 years old. Jake. It's funny, you know, we find in this industry, in the coaching with mind shift, it's easier to deal with a blank slate than a broken slate. Right. So it's harder to shift an existing advisor that's been doing it 15 years the hard way versus the, the kid right out of school who goes, it's so funny too. It's priceless because they're, they're so blissfully ignorant, they give the right answer. I go, I go, yeah, we're, we're hammering them on mindset, going, yeah. He goes, well, what else would you do? He goes, what? He. So he goes, you, like, why wouldn't you charge for all. It was so obvious to him that goes, yeah, you're helping him with all that stuff, the insurance. You don't know that they're going to do that. You don't know they're going to do that. Why would you go out there and waste your time hoping for all that without. And offer to help them with everything else without charging them for it. He was so matter of fact, he went, all right, he, so he just jumped right in with two feet. He's charging five figures in total, planning charges right from the jump. And it's the only way he knows how to do business, which is, which is a wonderful thing. It's so funny that, that, but it started right here, though, with, with the mindset that, that I have value, my time has value, my expertise, even if he doesn't, he goes, the team I have behind me has value and expertise.
- [39:19]
A
Right, Right.
- [39:20]
B
So it can, it can work for anyone. You just have to change your language there a little bit and add my team, if you're a 21 year old advisor.
- [39:27]
A
Yeah. Makes sense. And, and it sounds, you know, the way you do this or create this blank slate, I'm guessing, tell me if this is true. For advisors have been at this for a while is what you just did with me. Say, imagine you don't get paid a commission on insurance products. Imagine you don't get paid for invest assets under management now. Right. So you're bringing that blank slate in a way and you're still helping your clients. Is that kind of the same dynamic that, that, that Jay created or you created for Jay because he didn't know any better?
- [40:00]
B
Yeah.
- [40:01]
A
Yeah.
- [40:01]
B
When we try to rewiring someone's brain again, having I, I had, I had my own brain rewired. Someone had to present to me. It actually went like this, Bill. It was a quick story. This was the top guy, one of the, the top insurance and planning firms in the country comes down, he goes, calls me out in front of our whole agency. There's hundreds of people in the room. He goes, steve, tell me about your process. And I go, well, I go out and meet with them and I collect all their information and I put it together in a report. And I hope that they find so much value in that that let me, you know, try to help them with their insurance or, and move their money to me. And he goes, okay, great. It's like the same that I do, but what do you, what do you charge for the first part? He goes, I go, nothing. He goes, oh, I charge $3,000 for that. And I just went like, okay. I didn't, you know, I didn't know I could do that. Right. Like, it just was. I just needed to hear it though, from someone else in the trenches, someone else that's been there and done it. And for him to go, it's okay. It was really cathartic. I mean, we don't have enough time to get into the emotional side of this, which goes all the way back to my dad. But to hear from someone to go, you have value, Steve. You, you have value.
- [41:21]
A
You are the value.
- [41:22]
B
We have to like. Part of me considers mind shift as almost advisor advocate advocacy, but it's just as valuable for the client. But it's an advisor advocacy program as well. That's just saying, like, help yourself. I use the elf. We're around the holidays here, so it's the ELF acronym, the Emotional, logistical, Financial. If an advisor is struggling in any of these three areas, and typically it's at least one, and if they have all three perfect, great, then don't change a thing. But if you're struggling any of these areas, consider shifting to planning. It was a panacea. It cleared the board. I couldn't. I can't remember life before it. I've forgotten how to sell the old way. I can't do it. It's just, I can't, can't emphasize it and implore people enough to help themselves.
- [42:16]
A
That's what I call a metaphorical slap upside the head that changes one's awareness. And when our awareness changes, our life changes. Right? Because what we see in front of us changes and opportunities expand. They were always there, but we just didn't see them. My featured guests on today's show have been Steven Kaplan and Ben Scupp, co founders of Holistic Financial Planners. Is their planning practice and mind shift. Financial coaching is how they serve other advisors. Gentlemen, thank you for all the value provided. This has been a very interesting conversation and thanks for being guests on Top Advisor Podcast.
- [42:54]
C
Thank you Bill. Thank you.
- [42:56]
A
Great having you. To you, the listener of this podcast, may I ask a small favor? If you like this episode or the podcast in general, please leave a five star review on the platform you're listening to the show. Not all platforms have a place for reviews, but if yours does, be grateful. We also want to say thank you to our sponsors, Proudmouth, the folks at Ironclad Family who bring Ivault X and Harbor Capital. This is Bill Cates reminding you that ideas do not make you more successful. Only acting on those ideas will bring you the success you desire. Thanks for stopping by today. Thank you for listening to the Top Advisor Podcast brought to you by Proud Mouse Pot Rocket Academy. I encourage you to Visit my website referralcoach.com for links to my books, online courses and to register for the Cates Academy.