Top Advisor Podcast - Episode #84

EXACTLY What to Say (And Ask) with Phil M. Jones, CSP, CPAE

Host: Bill Cates
Guest: Phil M. Jones, CSP, CPAE
Date: March 5, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Bill Cates interviews Phil M. Jones, acclaimed author of "Exactly What to Say," about the art and science of asking the right questions. The conversation dives deep into how financial advisors can move from giving advice to unlocking client needs, using strategic curiosity, and stacking questions to create trust, context, and more robust client relationships. The discussion is practical, focusing on frameworks, tactical language, and actual roleplays that advisors can adopt immediately.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Power of Asking Rather Than Telling

• Question vs. Advice:

  • Phil emphasizes that advisors should ask rather than tell. "People should look to be able to discover the advice that they need for their circumstances through the questions that you ask." (05:00)
  • Advisors often jump too quickly to advice, missing the opportunity to build context and trust.

• Earning the Right to Advise:

  • You shouldn't give advice until you thoroughly understand the client. "If you insert your content before you've earned the other person's context, then what you've got is a noisy situation, got noisier in the mind of other people." (04:10)

Frameworks for Effective Questioning

• The Opening-Fact-Question (OFQ) Structure (16:31)

  • Polite opening, mutually agreeable fact, and easy-to-answer question.
  • Example for a life insurance inquiry:
    • Opening: "Great we got to be connected today..."
    • Fact: "It sounds like we're both aware you want to make sure your family is protected..."
    • Question: "Is there anything else on your agenda today for us to talk about?"

• Question Stacks / Trees

  • Stack questions like musical notes to build a fluid, effective conversation.
  • Sequence starts broad and gets more specific as context is earned.

Shifting Client Perspective Through Questions

• Perspective-shifting Questions (19:46)

  • Use questions to lead clients to new perspectives without being pushy.
  • Example: "What do you understand about all of your options when it comes to life insurance?" (20:04)
  • Follow-up: "What is your experience of working with other professional advisors?" (20:53)
  • This approach establishes expertise and gently guides the client to see where they have gaps.

• Empathy & Curiosity as Core Tools

  • "Curiosity earns you context, because what happens is you’re starting to see the world from the other person’s point of view." (06:55)
  • John Acuff's definition borrowed by Phil: "Empathy is caring about what the people you care about care about." (07:23)

Slowing Down to Speed Up

• Slowing The Process
  • "If you slow the process down, you speed the outcome up... How do you use questions to slow the process down?" (08:49)
  • Reference to the U.S. Marines: "Slow is smooth and smooth is fast." (34:31)

Tactical Language and Question Examples

Permission and Framework

• Avoid "Can I ask you a few questions?" as it may cool the conversation.
• Instead, OFQ structure is better for leading into deeper discussions.

Key Questions in The Stack

• Broad Understanding:

  • "What do you understand about your options?" (20:04)
  • "What is your experience with...?" (20:53)
  • "How certain are you that...?" (22:03)
  • "When was the last time you rushed into a decision and made the wrong choice?" (23:59)
  • "How important is it to you that you have control over your entire wealth plan?" (25:24)

• Perspective and Possibility:

  • "Could it be possible that life insurance is only one of the things to consider?" (25:42)
  • "Could it be possible that us working together would be the right solution?" (26:14)

• Emotion and Visualization:

  • "How would you feel if...?" — but make sure to avoid leading or obvious questions which could feel manipulative (29:53).
  • "Just imagine..." to help clients see positive outcomes (31:39).

• Closing the Loop:

  • Use "because of the fact that you said..." to tie recommendations to client-supplied context (34:33).

• Past, Present, Future Arc:

  • "Where are you invested right now?" (39:34)
  • "So how’s that all working out for you?" (40:18)
  • "Where are you hoping to go from here?" (40:24)

Handling Inertia

• Point out the cost of doing nothing without making the client feel judged.
• "What do you understand about the opportunity cost of not being properly invested?" (43:38)
• Use a scale: "On a scale of 1 to 10, how important is this?" (43:10)

Roleplay & Memorable Moments

• Roleplay around Life Insurance:

  • Phil demonstrates how to gently reframe a client's perception from a transaction to a long-term relationship starting at [19:46].

• On Not Giving Advice:

  • Phil recounts a personal story about holding back on giving advice to his daughter, letting her find her own solution. "No advice given, plenty of advice received." (06:56)

• Referrals and Referability:

  • "It's rarely the product. It's almost always the process that makes you more referable." (27:19)
  • Strong processes using these questions actually boost advisor referability.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• “The worst time to think about the thing you’re going to say is in the moment where you’re saying it.”
  — Phil M. Jones, (06:56)

• “Curiosity is the fuel to great conversation.”
  — Phil M. Jones, (06:55)

• “Selling is earning the right to make a recommendation.”
  — Phil M. Jones, (34:33)

• “Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.”
  — Phil M. Jones quoting U.S. Marines, (34:31)

• “It's rarely the product. It's almost always the process that makes you more referable.”
  — Bill Cates, (27:19)

• “Prescription before diagnosis is malpractice.”
  — Phil M. Jones, (27:25)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:10] – Should advice really be about asking, not telling?
• [05:49] – Building tactical question "stacks" like musical scales
• [16:31] – The OFQ (Opening-Fact-Question) structure
• [19:46] – Roleplay: Reframing client perspective with question stacking
• [23:58] – Using "when was the last time..." for client self-realization
• [25:42] – Introducing "could it be possible..." to spark further conversation
• [31:39] – Using "just imagine..." for client visualization
• [34:33] – Tying recommendations back to client input using "because of the fact that you said..."

Style & Approach Takeaways

• Phil’s conversational style is invitational not prescriptive—always inviting clients to see possibilities and participate in their own discovery.
• He advocates for slowing down: “If you slow the process down, you speed the outcome up.”
• Create new moments with clients, especially existing ones, using the same question structures for deeper engagement.

How to Apply These Lessons

• Build your own "question stacks" or "trees" for common client scenarios.
• Use the opening-fact-question structure to frame all substantive discussions.
• Focus on understanding before advising: gather context, use empathy, and lead clients to self-realization rather than quick fixes.
• Apply these methods not just with prospects but also with existing clients to "write new day ones" and uncover additional opportunities.

Connect with Phil M. Jones

• Website: philemjones.com
• Instagram: @philemjonesuk
• Books: “Exactly What to Say” and related resources

Closing Reminder from Host

“Ideas do not make you more successful. Only acting on those ideas will bring you the success you desire.”
— Bill Cates

This episode delivers a blueprint for advisors who want to differentiate through authentic, strategic questioning—unlocking greater client value, trust, and long-term relationships.