Top Advisor Podcast, Episode #85

“Helping Clients Sleep Well at Night with Financial Planning”

Guest: Pamela Sams, Founder of Jackson Sams Wealth Strategies
Host: Bill Cates
Date: March 19, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features Pamela Sams, BFA, CRPC, MBA, a seasoned financial advisor specializing in empowering women through financial planning. Pamela shares how her personal journey led her to focus on helping women—widows, divorcees, and singles—secure their financial future so they can “sleep well at night.” The discussion explores the origins of her unique "SWAN" concept, building a supportive client community, the importance of behavioral finance, and creative client engagement strategies. Bill and Pamela also discuss her ambassador program, effective branding, leveraging media, and working alongside her two sons.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Pamela’s Journey into Financial Services

• Background & Inspiration
  • Pamela initially intended to pursue investment banking. Her trajectory changed after her father’s illness and passing, prompting her to help her mother handle her finances ([03:11]).
  • Realized a gap for women like her mother, especially widows, needing help with financial planning:

    “I figured there were some other women in similar situations, like my mother, who really needed assistance and financial planning. So I went a whole different direction... decided to focus on financial planning specifically for women.” ([03:50])

The SWAN Concept: Sleep Well At Night

• Meaning & Symbolism
  • SWAN stands for “Sleep Well At Night,” reflecting Pamela’s core mission for clients ([05:01]).
  • Swans also symbolize transformation—from “ugly duckling” finances to empowered “swans”:

    “Having my clients develop their own unique swan story is really what I focus in on. You know, taking what I call maybe that ugly duckling situation... and then transforming them to beautiful financial swans.” ([05:35])

  • The SWAN story builds a strong sense of identity and belonging within her client community.
  • Engagement is high:

    “I have prospective clients reach out to me and say, hey, I want to be a swan.” ([06:08])

Building a Branded Community for Women

• Branding & Target Market
  • SWAN branding is intentional—website design, stories, and voice cater to professional women ([08:43]).
  • Self-selection: Those who resonate with SWAN join; others are filtered out, which Pamela sees as positive:

    “Basically it becomes a self-selection process at that point.” ([10:11])

The Role of Behavioral Finance (BFA) in Advising

• Going Beyond Numbers

  • Early on, Pamela noticed clients often got “stuck” due to past experiences or limiting beliefs, not for lack of planning ([10:42]).
  • She pursued the Behavioral Financial Advisor designation to help address these psychological barriers.
  • Starts every client engagement discussing money stories and values before moving into planning:

    “It’s really a different conversation... I start with what are your views about money? How did you grow up? And then we... build the financial plan.” ([11:45])

  • Quotes on the impact of “money gunk”

    “We kind of clean out all of the gunk or the money tracks that could be running that is not serving them anymore.” ([12:55])

• On Awareness and Change

  • Discusses whether you “get rid of the gunk” or just learn to manage it:

    “I think you're probably right, Bill. Never really truly get rid of the gunk... but at least you are aware of what could be the issue...” ([13:25])

  • Shares client stories—one who broke out in hives just thinking about money and another whose early associations made conversations difficult ([13:49]).

Fostering an Ambassador Community

• What It Looks Like in Practice

  • Annual events, team-building, and social gatherings (wine tastings, barbecues) are common ([19:06]).
  • During COVID, created shared Spotify playlists to keep spirits up—now a tradition ([19:37]).

• Business Impact

  • “Ambassador” program rewards those who refer others—exclusive events, VIP access ([19:06], [26:19]).
  • SWAN sense of community makes clients eager to invite friends and family, fueling referrals and growth.
  • Social media amplifies this effect, as clients and even non-clients (advocates) share the SWAN vision ([23:10]).

• Notable Moment

  • Pamela sends new clients a glass swan as a symbol and anchor for their progress:

    “I send that to them in the mail along with a little note... I encourage them to put it on their nightstand... If there's on their nightstand, they can take a look at it and say, hey, this is the work we're doing together... helping me sleep well at night.” ([24:46])

Distinguishing Advocates vs. Ambassadors

• Ambassadors are clients who refer regularly—invited to VIP events.
• Advocates may not be clients but promote Pamela in social and professional circles ([26:19]).

Education & Lead Generation Strategies

• Free Download: “Unlock Your Money Blocks”
  • Used at seminars and on her website as a conversation starter and lead magnet ([28:54]).
  • Generates referrals when attendees share the tool with others ([31:02]).

Leveraging Media

• Media Appearances: TV features and magazine covers contribute to visibility and credibility ([31:16], [31:45]).
  • Pamela notes the importance of social proof in gaining trust and legitimacy:

    “If the people see you either in the media or speaking somewhere or presenting, they're like, okay, maybe this person is a little bit legitimate...” ([31:45])

Working with Family

• Pamela’s two sons, Amman and Jaron, work for her, each managing their strengths—marketing/social media and client service/operations, respectively ([33:09]).
• Navigating roles was tricky at first.

  “So when we're in the office, I'm employer; when we're outside, I'm mom. So understanding that in the beginning was a little bit of a challenge.” ([33:52])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• The SWAN Community Appeal

  “How do I become a swan? ...Having people come to me and say, ‘how do I become a part of your community?’ has become a thing.”
  —Pamela Sams ([06:16])

• Behavioral Finance Insight

  “It was something maybe psychological or something in their past or their money story, that's what I call it, that may have been keeping them stuck...”
  —Pamela Sams ([10:42])

• Referral Generation through Community

  “Everybody wants to be the part of the party, right? So they feel a little bit left out if they're not part of the ambassador program...”
  —Pamela Sams ([19:43])

• Anchoring Client Achievement

  “I encourage them to put it on their nightstand... every time you see the swan, you know that you’ve done what you need to do to sleep well at night.”
  —Bill Cates ([25:49])

• Family Dynamics at Work

  “So when we're in the office, I'm employer; when we're outside, I'm mom. So understanding that in the beginning was a little bit of a challenge...”
  —Pamela Sams ([33:52])

Segment Timestamps

• 03:11 – Pamela’s origin story: caring for her mother after her father’s death
• 05:01 – Introduction and meaning of SWAN
• 06:16 – Prospective clients seeking SWAN community
• 08:43 – Website branding and the self-selection process
• 10:42 – The impact of Behavioral Financial Advisor (BFA) designation
• 13:25 – How awareness helps overcome behavioral “gunk”
• 19:06 – Building community: Ambassador program and social events
• 24:46 – Sending new clients a symbolic glass swan
• 26:19 – Difference between ambassadors and advocates
• 28:54 – Explain and use of "Unlock Your Money Blocks" tool
• 31:45 – The credibility boost from media appearances
• 33:09 – Working with and managing family members

Summary Takeaways

• Purposeful Niche Focus: Pamela’s business is built around helping women take charge of their finances, inspired by her personal life and mission-driven branding.
• Powerful Branding: Unique, consistent SWAN messaging creates community, resonance, and natural self-selection for ideal clients.
• Behavioral Finance: Addressing emotional and psychological blocks is essential for lasting client progress.
• Community as Business Engine: Regular client engagement, ambassador programs, and tangible symbols (glass swans) reinforce loyalty and boost referrals.
• Education & Visibility: Downloadable tools and media exposure both support credibility and funnel growth.
• Adaptability: Family integration in the practice requires clear role boundary setting and ongoing communication.

Listeners leave this episode inspired to consider the impact of focused, values-driven practice management, deeper client psychology, and creative approaches to client advocacy and community-building.