#85 Helping Clients Sleep Well at Night with Financial Planning with Pamela Sams

Summary

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Top Advisor Podcast, Episode #85

“Helping Clients Sleep Well at Night with Financial Planning”

Guest: Pamela Sams, Founder of Jackson Sams Wealth Strategies
Host: Bill Cates
Date: March 19, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode features Pamela Sams, BFA, CRPC, MBA, a seasoned financial advisor specializing in empowering women through financial planning. Pamela shares how her personal journey led her to focus on helping women—widows, divorcees, and singles—secure their financial future so they can “sleep well at night.” The discussion explores the origins of her unique "SWAN" concept, building a supportive client community, the importance of behavioral finance, and creative client engagement strategies. Bill and Pamela also discuss her ambassador program, effective branding, leveraging media, and working alongside her two sons.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Pamela’s Journey into Financial Services

• Background & Inspiration
  • Pamela initially intended to pursue investment banking. Her trajectory changed after her father’s illness and passing, prompting her to help her mother handle her finances ([03:11]).
  • Realized a gap for women like her mother, especially widows, needing help with financial planning:

    “I figured there were some other women in similar situations, like my mother, who really needed assistance and financial planning. So I went a whole different direction... decided to focus on financial planning specifically for women.” ([03:50])

The SWAN Concept: Sleep Well At Night

• Meaning & Symbolism
  • SWAN stands for “Sleep Well At Night,” reflecting Pamela’s core mission for clients ([05:01]).
  • Swans also symbolize transformation—from “ugly duckling” finances to empowered “swans”:

    “Having my clients develop their own unique swan story is really what I focus in on. You know, taking what I call maybe that ugly duckling situation... and then transforming them to beautiful financial swans.” ([05:35])

  • The SWAN story builds a strong sense of identity and belonging within her client community.
  • Engagement is high:

    “I have prospective clients reach out to me and say, hey, I want to be a swan.” ([06:08])

Building a Branded Community for Women

• Branding & Target Market
  • SWAN branding is intentional—website design, stories, and voice cater to professional women ([08:43]).
  • Self-selection: Those who resonate with SWAN join; others are filtered out, which Pamela sees as positive:

    “Basically it becomes a self-selection process at that point.” ([10:11])

The Role of Behavioral Finance (BFA) in Advising

• Going Beyond Numbers

  • Early on, Pamela noticed clients often got “stuck” due to past experiences or limiting beliefs, not for lack of planning ([10:42]).
  • She pursued the Behavioral Financial Advisor designation to help address these psychological barriers.
  • Starts every client engagement discussing money stories and values before moving into planning:

    “It’s really a different conversation... I start with what are your views about money? How did you grow up? And then we... build the financial plan.” ([11:45])

  • Quotes on the impact of “money gunk”

    “We kind of clean out all of the gunk or the money tracks that could be running that is not serving them anymore.” ([12:55])

• On Awareness and Change

  • Discusses whether you “get rid of the gunk” or just learn to manage it:

    “I think you're probably right, Bill. Never really truly get rid of the gunk... but at least you are aware of what could be the issue...” ([13:25])

  • Shares client stories—one who broke out in hives just thinking about money and another whose early associations made conversations difficult ([13:49]).

Fostering an Ambassador Community

• What It Looks Like in Practice

  • Annual events, team-building, and social gatherings (wine tastings, barbecues) are common ([19:06]).
  • During COVID, created shared Spotify playlists to keep spirits up—now a tradition ([19:37]).

• Business Impact

  • “Ambassador” program rewards those who refer others—exclusive events, VIP access ([19:06], [26:19]).
  • SWAN sense of community makes clients eager to invite friends and family, fueling referrals and growth.
  • Social media amplifies this effect, as clients and even non-clients (advocates) share the SWAN vision ([23:10]).

• Notable Moment

  • Pamela sends new clients a glass swan as a symbol and anchor for their progress:

    “I send that to them in the mail along with a little note... I encourage them to put it on their nightstand... If there's on their nightstand, they can take a look at it and say, hey, this is the work we're doing together... helping me sleep well at night.” ([24:46])

Distinguishing Advocates vs. Ambassadors

• Ambassadors are clients who refer regularly—invited to VIP events.
• Advocates may not be clients but promote Pamela in social and professional circles ([26:19]).

Education & Lead Generation Strategies

• Free Download: “Unlock Your Money Blocks”
  • Used at seminars and on her website as a conversation starter and lead magnet ([28:54]).
  • Generates referrals when attendees share the tool with others ([31:02]).

Leveraging Media

• Media Appearances: TV features and magazine covers contribute to visibility and credibility ([31:16], [31:45]).
  • Pamela notes the importance of social proof in gaining trust and legitimacy:

    “If the people see you either in the media or speaking somewhere or presenting, they're like, okay, maybe this person is a little bit legitimate...” ([31:45])

Working with Family

• Pamela’s two sons, Amman and Jaron, work for her, each managing their strengths—marketing/social media and client service/operations, respectively ([33:09]).
• Navigating roles was tricky at first.

  “So when we're in the office, I'm employer; when we're outside, I'm mom. So understanding that in the beginning was a little bit of a challenge.” ([33:52])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• The SWAN Community Appeal

  “How do I become a swan? ...Having people come to me and say, ‘how do I become a part of your community?’ has become a thing.”
  —Pamela Sams ([06:16])

• Behavioral Finance Insight

  “It was something maybe psychological or something in their past or their money story, that's what I call it, that may have been keeping them stuck...”
  —Pamela Sams ([10:42])

• Referral Generation through Community

  “Everybody wants to be the part of the party, right? So they feel a little bit left out if they're not part of the ambassador program...”
  —Pamela Sams ([19:43])

• Anchoring Client Achievement

  “I encourage them to put it on their nightstand... every time you see the swan, you know that you’ve done what you need to do to sleep well at night.”
  —Bill Cates ([25:49])

• Family Dynamics at Work

  “So when we're in the office, I'm employer; when we're outside, I'm mom. So understanding that in the beginning was a little bit of a challenge...”
  —Pamela Sams ([33:52])

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Segment Timestamps

• 03:11 – Pamela’s origin story: caring for her mother after her father’s death
• 05:01 – Introduction and meaning of SWAN
• 06:16 – Prospective clients seeking SWAN community
• 08:43 – Website branding and the self-selection process
• 10:42 – The impact of Behavioral Financial Advisor (BFA) designation
• 13:25 – How awareness helps overcome behavioral “gunk”
• 19:06 – Building community: Ambassador program and social events
• 24:46 – Sending new clients a symbolic glass swan
• 26:19 – Difference between ambassadors and advocates
• 28:54 – Explain and use of "Unlock Your Money Blocks" tool
• 31:45 – The credibility boost from media appearances
• 33:09 – Working with and managing family members

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Summary Takeaways

• Purposeful Niche Focus: Pamela’s business is built around helping women take charge of their finances, inspired by her personal life and mission-driven branding.
• Powerful Branding: Unique, consistent SWAN messaging creates community, resonance, and natural self-selection for ideal clients.
• Behavioral Finance: Addressing emotional and psychological blocks is essential for lasting client progress.
• Community as Business Engine: Regular client engagement, ambassador programs, and tangible symbols (glass swans) reinforce loyalty and boost referrals.
• Education & Visibility: Downloadable tools and media exposure both support credibility and funnel growth.
• Adaptability: Family integration in the practice requires clear role boundary setting and ongoing communication.

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Listeners leave this episode inspired to consider the impact of focused, values-driven practice management, deeper client psychology, and creative approaches to client advocacy and community-building.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the Top Advisor Podcast, brought to you by Proudmouth's Pod Rocket Academy. I'm your host, Bill Cates, creator of the Cates Academy for Relationship Marketing. In each episode, I interview one of our industry's top performers, getting them to pass on their secrets to success to you so that you can impact more lives and generate more income. Now onto the show. Foreign welcome. Today's show is going to delve into the business, building power that comes from having a clear mission, a clear target market, and the energy and talent necessary to create a community of advocates. That's what today's guest has done to build her highly successful advisory practice. And we're even going to spend a few minutes talking about swans. You heard me, swans. I think you'll find today's show interesting and impactful. But before we dive into this with our featured guest, I want to let you know about some free resources that I invite you to retrieve. After you've listened to today's interview, you'll find checklists, guides, videos and other tools. Simply go to referralcoach.com resources. Now write this down unless you're driving. That's referralcoach.com resources and it's also in the show Notes. While you're there, make sure you sign up for our free weekly tips. We're always sharing best practices and we'll notify you of our newest podcast interviews as they go live. And while these are free to you, I think you'll find them quite valuable. The Top Advisor Podcast is sponsored by the folks at Proudmouth who help advisors increase client engagement and attract more ideal clients. And this episode is sponsored by Harbor Capital, an asset manager known for curating an intentionally select suite of active ETFs for from boutique managers as well as ironclad family who bring you Ivault X, a financial advisor enablement tool focused on upping your game as a holistic advisor. And now on with Today's show. My featured guest for today's show is Pamela Sams, BFA, CRPC and MBA. Pam is the founder of Jackson Sam's Wealth Strategies and for 22 years, Pam has been helping women improve their personal and financial wealth through solid financial life planning. Pam holds a Behavioral Financial Advisor designation awarded to advisors who have undergone training to help clients make financial decisions using a rational values based approach. On her LinkedIn profile, she writes, I help professional women secure their financial future so they can sleep well at night. Pamela Sam zooming In from Ashburn, Virginia, a suburb of Washington, D.C. welcome to top Advisor Podcast.

[B]

Thank you very much for having me, Bill.

[A]

Well, it's great to have you been looking forward to this. I think you're doing some very interesting things that our folks can benefit from, hopefully apply to their business. So first of all, how did you find your way into this business? What are some of the circumstances and decisions that led you to where you are today?

[B]

Yes, it was quite a journey, Bill. I have a MBA in financial management and I thought I was going to go in a whole different direction, do investment banking. You know, the whole Wall street bit. You know, after seeing Wall street in the 80s, like, that's not something I want to do. Unfortunately, during that time period, my dad got, got ill, eventually passed away, leaving my mother a widow after 50 years of marriage. Then I was able to kind of step in with my financial management background and help her navigate her new life as a widow. And at that point I figured there were some other women in similar situations, like my mother, who really needed assistance and financial planning. So I went a whole different direction, not doing investment banking and really decided to focus on financial planning specifically for women. So most of my clients are women, single by choice, divorce and widow. That's my journey to, to financial services.

[A]

Very nice. And you know, I love it when folks come into this business with a story like this. Usually they're, they're more on a mission than some folks right. It, some people call this the founder story, the origin story, you know, the heartfelt why you do this. But I found that that's always a great, great thing to come into, even though it, you know, it's unfortunate with your father's dying that made you shift, shift gears. So I promised everyone we're going to talk a little bit about swans and what you call the swan story.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I know that this is a big part of what drives you to reach more clients and help them in their life's journey. So tell us more about the swan.

[B]

Yes. So the swan is, if anybody goes to my website, like you said before, you know, really thinking about swans, you'll see a lot of pictures of swans and people like, you know, what are the swans all about, Pam? But it's really to A twofold meaning. 1 is an acronym which is sleep well at night. So that's what I put on my LinkedIn is helping women secure their financial future so they can sleep well at night. And then the second one is really all about transformation because with your finances, some people may be in what I call an ugly duckling situation with their finances. So really transforming their lives or their finances the swan is always about transformation. So two meanings for the swan. Having my clients develop their own unique swan story is really what I focus in on. You know, taking what I call maybe that ugly duckling situation, eventually working together and then transforming them to beautiful financial swans. So that's what my swans are all about. So my community that I build is all about swans. And I call everybody who becomes a client one of my swans.

[A]

And I remember you telling me you've had prospective clients reach out to you and say, hey, I want to be a swan.

[B]

Yes, how do I become a swan? And, you know, we go through the process, of course, you know, with initial consultation and taking them all the way through that process, but having people come to me and say, hey, how do I become a part of your community? How do I become a swan? Is. Has. Has become a thing.

[A]

So this whole idea of creating a community and using the, not just an acronym, but the kind of the image or the idea of a swan.

[B]

How.

[A]

Did that occur to you? Do you remember the origin of that? Or what made, what made that enter into your brain to then bring it to your clients?

[B]

Well, I mean, I have at the time when I really wanted to focus in on financial wellness for women, I did work with a branding and a marketing team and just kind of put out what my story was all about and how I got into financial services and what I was trying to do as an advisor. And we kind of came together and said, okay, you know, what is the one thing that really keeps women up at night? And most of it was, you know, their finances. Earlier on in my business, I would see the next morning time stamp, set, timestamps on emails, 2 o' clock in the morning, 3 o' clock in the morning. So I figured people were up at night, worried about their finances. So with that tagline, it's really, it's like, okay, how do we help women sleep well at night? It's really all about financial wellness. And then we kind of talked about taking the transformation part of what people felt was kind of ugly with their finances. And that's kind of how it came about, really, with my marketing and my branding team on developing a strategy and really, marketing as a financial wellness as a swan's kind of swan story with an acronym and also a metaphor.

[A]

It seems to me that if one is thinking about creating this quote unquote, community of, we say like minded individuals, at least in certain areas, that having something like that probably helps. I mean, you don't hear this every day of an advisor having you Know an acronym like this or even, you know, an icon like a swan. So would it sounds like that that has helped with that sense of community, having that common verbiage of I want to be a swan. Swan story. I hope I'm asking that question if it makes sense.

[B]

Yeah, it does. Because you know, you are really speaking to that demographic on using the word. So if people go to my website, they'll see, they'll see the swans, they'll see the stories that I talk about. I, you know, the, the feminine voice as well. So I did redesigning my website, you know, several years ago with the intent to engage that demographic. And everything about my website is speaking to that demographic as well. So they see the icon and they see the story. You know, they will see, you know, my, my origin story is also there on my website as well. So it becomes like, you know, I want to be a part of this organization or this community and then where do I get started? So that's why people reach out to me.

[A]

That's a classic example of, you know, what this branding company helped you figuring out. Who do you want to attract? What's the story? What's going to attract them? And obviously, you know, having a little bit of a feminine look and having, you know, a story about swans and that's not going to appeal to everybody, is it?

[B]

No.

[A]

And so someone could come to your website or hear about you and pretty quickly they'll have a sense of is that attractive to me, is that relevant to me? And they'll be interested or they'll say consciously or unconsciously that's not for me and not be interested. And that's kind of the way you want it to work. True.

[B]

Yes. So it's more of a self selection process. So you know, once somebody comes there, they'll read the stories, they'll, you know, kind of get the feel of what my, my pract is all about and like I said, either want to be a part of it or not. And basically it becomes a self selection process at that point.

[A]

I'm curious about your BFA designation, Behavioral Financial Advisor. Tell us more about that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How it helps you help your clients better.

[B]

Exactly. So you know Bill, earlier on, of course in my career really focus on financial wellness for women. At some point during the financial planning process, there was always a, a stopping point. There was something, something that was having them stuck at some point and I wasn't able to get them past getting, being stuck and then taking them to take action on their financial plan. So it was something Maybe psychological or something in their past or their money story, that's what I call it, that may have been keeping them stuck and not wanting to move forward or take an action. So I heard about, well, I would have conversations earlier on, before my designation about these. You know, what's keeping you stuck? So really talking about how did you grow up with money? Was money talked about in your household? Did you get an allowance? What did you do with your first paycheck? Really getting an understanding of how they related to money is where I started the conversations. And then I found out there was a actual designation for financial advisors that did behavioral Financial advisor really talk about the emotions and the psychological and the behavioral part of how people deal with their money. So that's what my BFA is all about. So it's really a different conversation when people come to my practice. So I start with that. I start with what are your, your views about money? How did you grow up? And then we kind of transition to values based discussion. What do you value? I always say that people, what you spend money on is actually what you value. You can look up, you can look in somebody's checkbook and you can kind of see what they're spending money on, what they value. So we talk about a values conversation as well. And then from there we build the financial plan and then I move them forward from there. So it's not so much being stuck anymore because they know exactly what, what may be preventing them from moving forward. So we kind of what I call clean out all of the gunk or the money tracks that could be running that is not serving them anymore.

[A]

Now I'm curious about this because we all have that as you describe gunk. It's been estimated by some that most people form their beliefs and relationship to money around age 7. So it happens early and probably gets reinforced by other messages along the way. Um, but do people ever really get rid of the gunk or do they just become more aware of it and can make better choices in spite of it?

[B]

Yeah, I think you're probably right, Bill. Never really truly get rid of the gunk. You know, some things may resurface at some point in a conversation, but like you said, at least you are aware of what could be the issue or the problem with that. And so having somebody as a partner, because I always say I'm not, it's not a dictatorship and my practice is all about partnership and team framework is really. Okay, now that you've identified that, how do we take that and we move forward, you know, so for example, one particular client, it was something that, you know, every time that money was discussed in her household, there would be arguments with her, with her parents, so she didn't want to talk about money at some point that also unfortunately surfaced in her marriage and unfortunately ended in divorce. But at least she was aware of why it was occurring and what needed to happen moving forward. Identifying those triggers when she was dealing with money, another situation, same similar situation is another client. Every time money was talked about, she would literally, literally break out in hives because she just did not want to deal with it. So understanding why the hives are occurring, you know, working together at some point she was like Pam, now I don't have as many hives. Okay, so maybe less hives and then eventually no hives. So she knew exactly what her triggers were. And so, you know, having somebody that be able to engage with her, explain the process so she's not overwhelmed where it would cause physical manifestation of being irritated with money really helped.

[A]

Yeah, it starts with awareness, doesn't just being aware of it and then, and then of course the willingness and courage I suppose to face that and make adjustments. We'll be right back after a word from two of our show's sponsors. Stay with us because we have some very interesting things to discuss with our guests. I want to take about a minute to talk about one of the big trends in our industry that is holistic financial planning. As you may know, holistic planning is not just about investments or insurance. Holistic planning is about creating a master plan where everything works together. Investments, insurance, taxes, estate planning, even your clients personal goals and values come into play. Many clients are loving this approach where their advisor connects all the dots for them. This more comprehensive approach leads to clients gaining greater clarity, confidence and peace of mind. Now there's a platform that makes it easier for advisors to engage in true holistic planning. It's called the ivault X from the folks at Ironclad Family. Ivault X is a one stop digital vault for all your clients. Financial documents, personal records and even legacy plans. You help your clients get organized and secure for which they will love you. Your next step is to grab your free guide on how to make becoming a more holistic advisor easier for you and your team. Simply go to holisticadvisorguide.com to access this free guide. That's holisticadvisorguide.Com this link is also in the show notes. IVAultX may just be your key to bringing integrated financial guidance and the resulting peace of mind to your clients and their families. This ad is brought to you by Harbor Capital Advisors. Let's talk about Harbor's LinkedIn page for a second because they're giving you direct access to some of the top minds from across the industry. Here are some facts about their team. Their CIO brings deep experience from his days at JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs. Their head of ETFs has worked on the launch of many ETFs around the world. One of their portfolio managers leverages his prior experience at the Fed to color his opinion on monetary policy and the macroeconomic environment. And their capital markets expert breaks down complex market structures and offers ETF101 insights with a side of unexpected musical references. He also just happened to interview me for Harbor's podcast, the Active Advisor. You'll see my episode on their LinkedIn feed. Check out Harbor Capital Advisors on LinkedIn and listen to my episode of their podcast while you're there. The views expressed herein are those of Bill Cates at the time of the comments were made. They may not be reflective of their current opinions, are subject to change without prior notice, and should not be considered investment advice. All investing involves risk, including loss of principal. Harbor Capital Advisors, Inc. Is not affiliated with Referral Coach or Top Advisor podcast. Foreside Fund Services, LLC is a distributor of the Harbor ETFs 388-0661 Pam We've talked a little about this idea of a community and you've made a concerted effort to build a community of advocates with your clients. So I have a three part question related to this and if you forget one of the parts, just don't I'll remind you. But so what does building this community look like? What, what you talked a little bit about it, the branding on your website. I'm sure that's part of it. How has this been helpful to your clients, the sense of community? Because not everyone working with an advisor feels like they need that sense of community, but clearly some do and, and they enjoy it working with you and then ultimately I suppose, how has it helped you grow your business? So what does it look like building it? How do you how has it been helpful to the clients and how has it helped you grow your business?

[B]

Yeah, probably had to take that in stages. But what it looks like is really, you know, what I call the advocates but I also have an actual ambassador program so clients who generally refer friends and family. We have a basically an annual event. We do, you know, kind of building, team building type of things. We go to wine events, we, we hang out, we do things. Most of my clients eventually become friends, and we kind of hang out and do that. What it looks like as a community, I started, and I think I shared this with you before, is that during COVID and everybody was, you know, in the house maybe a little bit dejected. We can't go anywhere. We can't have fun. So with my. With my ambassadors and also my clients, I wanted to do something, you know, fairly with them. So I decided. And I love music. I'm, you know, kind of a audio file. Is that what they call them about music? And so I have tons of playlists on Spotify, so I thought it would be nice to cheer people up with music. So with my community, I engaged them to submit a song, and we put together a playlist. And I call it, you know, I called it Mac, which is my awesome clients. And, you know, just curate it, people's favorite songs, and then would give them out as playlists to. To my. To my community. And then it turned into hey, let's do one for Christmas and things like that. So I have at least two. One usually during the summer, kind of a summer fun playlist, and then I have one at Christmas as well. So it becomes a fun thing, you know, to do a community hangout. I get a chance to see Pam, but I also see, you know, some people that I've developed relationships and friendships with as well, because some people, of course, if they're clients, they referred friends and family. So we kind of get together as a community to have events, barbecues, wine tastings, things like that. So that's kind of what it has evolved into. It does take some time, you know, to build that. That community. But it is definitely helped my. Build my practice because people want to be. Basically everybody wants to be the part of the party, right? So they feel a little bit left out if they're not part of, you know, the ambassador program, where they get a chance to do these fun events. So in order to do that, they do have to, you know, send for referrals over. So they were like, send referrals. You be a part of the event. So it's an evolution eventually to become part of that community as well.

[A]

And how. How do they. How does that benefit them? Is it just really just the feeling of being part of something bigger? Is there anything more?

[B]

Yeah, I think it's a part of being something bigger. But, you know, also having, you know, somebody taking care of them financially, they get a chance to also be involved with kind of friends and family and one Big type of event or several events. You know, hey, are you going to go to, you know, Pam's wine tasting or you're going to go to, you know, Pam's barbecue? And then from there, of course, they bring friends and family, kind of what I call, you know, client bring a friend type of things, and eventually they become a part of the community as well. So I think it's more of a, you know, kind of a sense of bonding, but also being know that they're being taken care of financially.

[A]

Well, probably creates incredible loyalty among your clients, which is always good. Yes. You have bring a friend events, so they bring guests who. Some of whom are interested and I suppose become clients. And back to the. Some say, hey, I want to be a swan too. Right. It's just like my friend. Yeah. So it. It in terms of helping you grow your business, makes you more referable. It gives kind of a hook too, doesn't it? It gives people, your clients, kind of a way to describe what you do, I suppose, in a. Maybe a better or more interesting way. Would you agree with that?

[B]

Yes, I think it does. You know, I get a lot of, you know, I'm friends with a lot of my clients on, on social media, Facebook, Instagram. So it's a way to see where I'm engaged with my community as well as inside of what I do in my practice. I post regularly on things that I am doing, but also, of course, education, because I'm a big proponent of financial education. So it's very easy to kind of refer, hey, you know, follow Pam on social media. I get a lot of requests on Facebook for, hey, you know, I saw what you're doing. I want to become a swan. Somebody told me about you, whatever. So people are seeing me. I call it kind of omnipresent. So you're all over the place. Either somebody's talking about you in communities that you are not even a part of particular groups. Last year, I probably got several referrals from Facebook groups that I'm not even a part of. But people are talking about you even if you're not in the room. And that's what that community building that community really lends itself to, referrals because, you know, as soon as somebody says finances, like, you need to talk to Pam, that sort of thing.

[A]

Yep. You told me that you send them a swan.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What are you actually not a real swan. Obviously it'd be a little messy.

[B]

That would be really expensive and maybe.

[A]

Probably expensive and messy. And people will get bit by the swan. Exactly. What do you send them and when do they get the swan? When they're a prospect or they become a client? That kind of.

[B]

Yes, when they become a client. And I probably should have brought it to. To my session, but it is actually a little glass one that I tell them once they become a client, they. I send that to them in the mail along with a little note that says, hey, you know, now that you've become a client, here's your swan. I encourage them to put it on their nightstand. You know, again, back tying back to the sleep well at night, really. So if there's on their nightstand, they can take a look at it and say, hey, this is the work we're doing together and it's helping me sleep well at night. So that's what I encourage them to put that in on their nightstand once they become a client as well. Some have actually, when they get there, when they get their swan, have posted on Facebook, hey, now I'm a swan. Here's my financial advisor has sent this to me. Now I can sleep well at night. So I have this whole thing that people also kind of share their, hey, now that I've kind of made it or become a part of the community, really share that as well with their, with their group on Facebook or social media.

[A]

I like the way you help them anchor it, like put it on your nightstand, your dresser every time you see the swan. That you know that, that you know you've done what you need to do to sleep well at night. Right. So I think that's, that's. That's beautiful. We've kind of almost used the terms advocates and ambassadors interchangeably, but they're not really, to your mind, tell me the difference in your mind and in action, what an advocate is versus an ambassador.

[B]

Yeah, so explain a little bit about the ambassador. Like I said, I do have an ambassador program, so people who refer regularly are part of that. So, you know, they get kind of the VIP treatment so they get a chance to come to more exclusive dinners, perhaps, things like that. Advocates, on the other hand, are people who may not necessarily actually be clients, but they know what you do and really want to support you in your business, so they refer as well. So I have a lot of advocates and in my, in my LinkedIn groups and my Facebook and social media and, you know, friends and families and things like that. Advocates or those people who may not necessarily be clients. Ambassadors are actually a program that I have devised for people who generally refer. And so it's more of a VIP type of program.

[A]

Community within the community, if you will.

[B]

Exactly. Yes.

[A]

It's time for another quick break. I'll be back with Pam in just a minute. But first, let's hear from the folks that make this show possible. I have coached and interviewed many advisors who report significant success with their podcast. A podcast can create deeper engagement with your clients and attract more right fit clients to your practice. I've been working with the folks at Proudmouth since the inception of this show. Not only do they take care of the nuts and bolts of producing and hosting the episodes, but they've shown me how to increase my influence and attract more business. Proudmouth has a tool they call the Managed Influence Accelerator that creates a powerful content ecosystem that amplifies your voice, builds your influence, and drives real growth. And their sonic boom coaching program with podcast pro Matt Halloran will guide you through the entire process. They'll make sure you have the right strategies in place and then employ the exact right tactics for you. Podcasting isn't for everyone. And with that said, I think you owe yourself a look at how having a podcast can help you play bigger and build a better business. To book your free strategy session, go to proudmouth.com kates that's proudmouth.com forward/kates. Pam, on your website, you offer a tool you call unlock your money blocks. How women can break through these five barriers to experience financial empowerment. Now, I have to say it's a. It's a very well designed tool that visitors can download. Tell us more about how you use this tool, this, this guide that you've.

[B]

Created that goes back again to the behavioral part of it. So there are definitely money blocks and a lot of people's psyche. And so that particular tool is used to really get people to understand what some of those money blocks could be. So I use it, of course, as a download on my website, but when I'm out in the community where I'm giving presentations, seminars, things like that, I also have that as a QR code so they can download it, and then I usually follow up after they have read it. So, you know, you download it. Have you had a chance to read it? What did you get out of it? And then I offer them the complimentary meeting to talk about maybe some of the money blocks that, that they have identified for themselves inside of that particular tool. And then that's where I kind of take it from there and see if they're qualified, you know, to become part of my community from there. But so a little bit of a lead magnet that I use it for but really getting out again, some of the educational pieces on what people may be having, some of those money blocks that they're not aware of.

[A]

Well, it also, it gives them a sense of who you are and how you approach things. Right, Correct. Remind me, I don't remember. On your website, do they quote, unquote, pay for this with their email address so you know who's downloaded it?

[B]

Exactly, yes. So they put in there their name and their email address for the most part. And then like I said, I usually follow up or have a team member follow up to get a little bit more engagement on. Number one, why did you download it? Number two, what did you find out about yourself? So it is kind of a self identifier on some of the blocks they could have been experiencing. And then of course offering them a chance to, to chat with me for about 15, 20 minutes and then, you know, kind of a more of a pre qual type of situation and then maybe a formal meeting from there.

[A]

And do. Have you seen any of your clients forward that to others? I mean, is that. Because sometimes a tool like that can be very helpful in the referral introduction process. I'm wondering if you found that.

[B]

Yes, I usually have people who forward it over. I also have people who attend the seminar. And those people who may not have been able to attend the seminar, they also forward the QR code so they can download the tool as well.

[A]

Great, great. There's also a page on your website. I've spent a little time on your website, obviously devoted to your many appearances on television. You've been, you've even been featured on the COVID of a magazine. I love this. A magazine called Affluence.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Tell us a little more about the media activities. How does this activity play a role in your business? Is it mostly just that visibility you've. You've mentioned earlier or anything else?

[B]

Yeah, it's visibility. Of course, as you know, it's all about, you know, credibility in this business. So if the people see you either in the media or speaking somewhere or presenting, they're like, okay, maybe this person is a little bit legitimate that, that they're not going to, you know, take my money and run type of person. So a lot of the media activity, of course has been be due to my reputation, my knowledge in the industry, but also, you know, to build up credibility as well. And a lot of it just comes from, hey, I saw you here, can you come speak here? Can you be represented here? So it's been years, of course, as you know of really Kind of building your brand. And then from there, people resonate with your story and they invite you to come speak or be part of a magazine as a contributor or write articles from them.

[A]

Yeah, I think it does add to that credibility. And sometimes people call it social proof. Others have obviously found value in your message. And so that. That shows that and demonstrates that. I have one. One last question for you. I know that you have two sons. They both work for you. I'm curious because there's other folks listening that may have family members or thinking of having family members work with them.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What are their roles and what is it like having your sons work for you?

[B]

Yes, their roles. Both of them are. Have a set of clients that they're responsible for. So I have, you know, fairly large client base. So I kind of split it in half based on, you know, kind of personality. You know, my sons are. Have different personalities. So who are part of my clients that they resonate with. So I kind of have them follow up with that. My youngest is Amman. He does a lot of my social media. He has a BA in marketing. So he's really big on posting, helping me post on Instagram and all of my analytics there. And then Jaron, of course, with the client service, he's in charge of my, my database and my CRM. What type of activities do we have? What? Tracking appropriately, following up with clients as well with that, working with them, of course, has always been in the beginning. You know, it's always a challenge between, hey, I am mom, and then I'm also employer. So you have to kind of separate the two. So when we're in the office, I'm employer when we're outside of my mom. So understanding that in the beginning was a little bit of a challenge. So when there was a little bit of scolding or me as an employer on, you know, this needs to be done in timely fashion. You need to follow up. You didn't do what you're supposed to, whatever the case may be. There was a little bit of hurt feelings at first, and. And so we got over that. So now, you know, they're basically colleagues and we work together very efficiently with that. But yeah, in the beginning it was a little bit of a, some, some issues there on just making a distinction between the different roles on. On what I have as employer and mom.

[A]

I just had a visual and come into my silly head that you wear this kind of a sign around your neck that on one side it says boss, and then I'm on the other side it says mom and you flip it based on the conversation.

[B]

Maybe I should have that in the office. Bill.

[A]

That'S funny. My featured guest on today's show been Pamela Sams, founder of Jackson Sam's Wealth Strategies, headquartered in Ashburn, Virginia. Pam, thank you so much for the value and fun that you brought to our listeners today.

[B]

Thank you very much for having me, Bill, once again.

[A]

Yeah, you bet. To you, the listener of this podcast, may I ask a small favor? If you like this episode or like the podcast in general, please leave a five star review on the platform you're listening to the show. Not all platforms have a place for reviews, but if yours does, I'd be grateful. Thank you. I invite you to come Visit [e-mail] that's CoachCates.com and if you or any organization with which you're affiliated brings in speakers, I'd love to see if I can be a resource for you. You can learn more about my virtual and in person presentations by going to Bill katespeaking.com that's Bill Kates speaking.com this is Bill Cates reminding you that ideas do not make you more successful. Only acting on those ideas will bring you the success you desire. Thanks for stopping by. Thank you for listening to the Top Advisor podcast brought to you by Proud Mouse Pot Rocket Academy. I encourage you to Visit my website referralcoach.com for links to my books, online courses, and to register for the Katz Academy.