#86 Become a Million-Dollar-Advisor with Dave Mullen

Summary

Top Advisor Podcast – Episode #86 “Become a Million-Dollar-Advisor” with Dave Mullen
Host: Bill Cates
Guest: Dave Mullen, Founder of Altius Learning
Date: April 2, 2025

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Overview

In this high-impact episode, Bill Cates interviews Dave Mullen, longtime financial advisor coach, bestselling author, and founder of Altius Learning, on what it takes to become—and stay—a million-dollar advisor. Drawing on his four decades of experience, including hiring, training, and coaching top producers at Merrill Lynch and beyond, Dave shares tactical strategies and intrinsic qualities that set elite advisors apart. Listeners come away with an actionable blueprint that covers mindset, client segmentation, refining the client experience, onboarding, referrals, and developing strategic partnerships.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. What Drives Dave Mullen (03:17–05:00)

• Dave reflects on his 44-year career and what keeps him passionate about coaching advisors:
  • Enjoyment in Developing Others: Dave found greatest satisfaction in helping motivated advisors “have more productive practices and overall do better in their jobs.”
  • Intrinsic Fulfillment: “I really get a lot of intrinsic satisfaction in sharing that perspective and experience and best practices with advisors that are really motivated to grow.” (04:29)
  • Despite being 70, Dave expresses “no plans to retire anytime soon.” (05:00)

2. Common Denominators of Top Advisors (05:55–09:31)

• Dave names his “seven characteristics” of successful million-dollar advisors:
  1. Optimism – “They look at the cup half full. They realize there's a tremendous opportunity in terms of growing their practices.” (06:18)
  2. Confidence (without arrogance) – “A deep seated confidence that they're capable of making a positive difference in their clients’ lives.” (06:52)
  3. Empathy – Balancing achievement drive with genuine caring: “Clients feel…they care.” (07:20)
  4. Never Satisfied – “No matter how much they do, they want to do more…about being the very best they're capable of being.” (07:39)
  5. Effective Communicators – “They have the ability to take, you know, complicated…issues…and distill it so that people…can understand it.” (08:16)
  6. Process-Oriented – “Process is one of the most effective time management procedures.” (08:54)
  7. Good Time Managers – “They know what the most productive activities are and…build teams around them.” (09:18)

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3. Client Segmentation for Growth (10:18–12:26)

• The Case for Segmentation:
  • “70–80% of a [financial advisor]’s revenue is…generated by 50 clients.” (10:43)
  • Most advisors “over service their smaller clients at the expense of their larger ones,” harming business growth. (11:11)
• Dave’s Segmentation Model:
  • Tier 1: Top 50 clients (by revenue and assets)
  • Tier 2: Clients with potential to move up
  • Tier 3: Smaller clients with low growth potential; best handled by delegated team members.
• Actionable Tip: Senior advisors must focus on Tier 1, cultivate Tier 2, and delegate Tier 3 for scale.

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4. Service vs. Experience – Building Client Trust (16:04–18:52)

• Not Just Semantics: Dave distinguishes “client experience” from standard client service.
  • Three Levels of Trust:
    1. Ethical Behavior: “Table stakes…your actions and words always align.” (16:44)
    2. Professional Competence: “Client believes the advisor knows what they're doing at a high level.” (17:12)
    3. Stakeholding: “The client feels that the advisor cares about them and their family, not just managing their money…That’s being a shareholder in their life.” (17:39)
  • Client Experience Actions: “Go to funerals, visit the hospital, send flowers…random acts of kindness.” (18:00)
  • Bonus: True client experience “leads to the client having the highest level of trust. And when that occurs, they provide referrals…give the advisor all their assets, and they never leave.” (18:43)

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5. The Crucial First 90 Days: Client Onboarding (20:32–22:54)

• The Onboarding Opportunity:
  • “If you can exceed their expectations in that first 90 days, you really set the course for the entire relationship.” (20:52)
  • Onboarding Checklist Includes:
    • Introduce client to team members
    • Meaningful appreciation gift
    • Personally oversee asset transfer
    • Review statements in detail
    • Frequent touchpoints (check-ins every couple weeks)
  • Referral Readiness: “It really sets the stage for that first referral conversation.” (22:13)

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6. Systematic Referral Generation (24:53–30:30)

• Referral Mindset and Psychology:
  • “70–80% of highly satisfied, high-net-worth clients are willing to provide their advisor with a referral…only 10% had a referral conversation with their advisor in the last year.” (25:22)
  • Mindset shift: “It’s not an ask, it’s a gift.”
• Dave’s Four-Step Referral System:
  1. Right Mindset: You’re helping clients help people they care about.
  2. Process-Driven: “Process saves us from the poverty of our intentions.” (27:25)
     • Build it into the agenda for client meetings, making it a routine.
  3. Be Specific: “The more specific you are in your referral ask, the more likely you’re going to get a referral.” (28:59)
  4. Preparation: “If you’re only going to have 1 or 2 referral conversations a year, make it count. Don’t wing it.” (29:14)
• ROI: “30 clients × 1 referral conversation/year = 8 qualified referrals in 5 hours—a highly productive strategy.” (30:13)

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7. Centers of Influence vs. Strategic Partnerships (35:40–38:56)

• Building Referral Flow from Influencers:
  • Relationship-building comes first: trust and likability are prerequisites.
  • Advisors often fail by not “willing to invest the upfront time in building those trusting relationships.” (36:36)
  • Focus first on CPAs and attorneys who serve your clients: “starts out with getting to know them better…sharing the advisor’s value proposition…having CE courses…including them in events…engaging on a personal level.” (37:02)
• Adding Value: Move beyond relationship—demonstrate value through case studies so the COI sees exactly whom you can help.
• Client-Centric Motivation: “It’s to enhance the relationship that [COIs] have with their clients by providing value by introducing [you as] the advisor.” (38:49)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I really get a lot of intrinsic satisfaction in sharing that perspective and experience and best practices with advisors that are really motivated to grow.”
  — Dave Mullen (04:29)

• “Process saves us from the poverty of our intentions.”
  — Dave Mullen (27:25)

• “If you can exceed their expectations in that first 90 days, you really set the course for the entire relationship.”
  — Dave Mullen (20:52)

• “It’s not an ask, it’s a gift. If we can get advisors to think of it that way, then the psychology of referrals changes and the willingness increases.”
  — Dave Mullen (26:10)

• “One of the biggest fears I’ve seen from accountants, attorneys particularly, is they…want to protect their relationship with their clients. And the fear is that somehow this advisor may screw that up.”
  — Bill Cates (39:20)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Dave’s Motivation & Ongoing Drive: 02:52–05:00
• 7 Key Traits of Top Advisors: 05:55–09:31
• Client Segmentation Approach: 10:18–12:26
• From Service to Experience (Trust): 16:04–18:52
• First 90 Days Onboarding: 20:32–22:54
• Systematic Referrals (Mindset & Process): 24:53–30:30
• Centers of Influence/Strategic Partnerships: 35:40–38:56

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Useful Resources

• Altius Learning: altiuslearning.com
• Referral Coach: referralcoach.com/resources – free guides, checklists, and weekly tips from Bill Cates
• Books by Dave Mullen:
  • The Million Dollar Financial Services Practice
  • The Million Dollar Advisor
  • The Million Dollar Financial Advisor Team

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Final Thoughts

Dave Mullen’s hands-on, tactical advice is invaluable for advisors intent on breaking through to the million-dollar level or doubling it. From mindset to process rigor, client segmentation to referral mastery, his emphasis is always on delivering specific, implementable actions alongside the right attitude for sustained, client-focused growth.

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This summary was crafted to help both aspiring and veteran advisors put Dave Mullen’s proven frameworks into action—without needing to listen to the entire episode.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the Top Advisor Podcast, brought to you by Proudmouth's podrocket Academy. I'm your host, Bill Cates, creator of the Cates Academy for Relationship Marketing. In each episode, I interview one of our industry's top performers, getting them to pass on their secrets to success to you so that you can impact more lives and generate more income. Now onto the show.

[B]

Foreign.

[A]

Welcome. Are you generating $1 million or more in annual revenue? If you are, would you like to keep growing to maybe 2 million or more? Or do you aspire to become a million dollar advisor? If either is true for you, then you're going to love today's show. But before we dive into this great topic with our featured guest, I want to let you know about some free resources that I invite you to retrieve. After you've listened to today's interview, you'll find checklists, guides, videos, other tools. Simply go to referralcoach.com resources. Now write this down unless you're driving referralcoach.com resources and you'll also find it in the show notes. While you're there, make sure you sign up for our weekly tips. We're always sharing best practices and we'll notify you of our newest podcast interviews as they go live. And while these are free to you, I think you'll find them quite valuable. Now, Top Advisor Podcast is sponsored by the folks at Proudmouth who help advisors increase client engagement and attract more ideal clients. And this episode is sponsored by Harbor Capital, an asset manager known for curating an intentionally selected suite of active ETFs from boutique managers, as well as Ironclad Family, who bring you Ivault X, a financial advisor enablement tool focused on upping your game as a holistic advisor. And now on with today's show, our featured guest is Dave Mullen. Dave retired as a Managing Director at Merrill lynch in 2007, where he personally hired, trained and managed over 500 financial advisors. Dave has also worked individually with over $100 million and multimillion dollar advisors. Dave is the founder of Altius Learning, whose mission is developing million dollar plus advisors. He's the author of three bestselling books, the Million Dollar Financial Services Practice, the Million Dollar Advisor, Powerful Lessons and Proven Strategies from Top Producers, and his newest book, the Million Dollar Financial Advisor Team. On a personal note, Dave is an avid mountain biker, a skier. He and his wife Cynthia have four children and reside near Denver, Colorado. Dave Mullen, zooming in from Englewood, Colorado. Welcome to Top Advisor Podcast.

[B]

Thank you, Bill. Pleasure to be here.

[A]

It's great to have you here. I've been familiar with your books forever, and I'm glad I finally lassoed you in here. By my calculations, you've been growing financial advisors for over about 44 years, first as a leader in a firm, and then the last 18 years with your training and coaching company. I'm curious, what drives you these days? What keeps your motor running, so to speak?

[B]

Yeah, Bill, that's a good question. And, you know, in anticipation of this podcast, you shared the question in advance, and it caused me to do some deep thinking about what does motivate me. And I'll give you a little backstory, and that is that during the years that I was at Merrill lynch, most of which I was in a leadership role, I found that what I enjoyed the most, and frankly, what I was best at, was helping advisors that were motivated to grow their practices have more productive practices and overall do better in their jobs. And it's what I enjoyed the most. And frankly, it was what I was best at. And so when I retired from Merrill lynch after 30 years, or almost 30 years, and started this training and coaching firm, I was really able to do what I enjoyed most as a manager and take it to another level by being able to do it full time. And, you know, over the course of 44 years, as you reminded me, I've had the opportunity to work with some of the very, very best, top, highest producing advisors in the industry, thousands of them, and as a result of that, have learned so much in my journey, my professional journey, and really get a lot of intrinsic satisfaction in sharing that perspective and experience and best practices with advisors that are really motivated to grow. And it's a very fulfilling career as a professional coach and trainer, as you know. And that's what keeps me going. I'm 70 years old and no plans to retire anytime soon.

[A]

Well, I just figured something out. You can feel free to use this. By the time this comes out, I'm going to be very close to turning 74. But. But that's, that's Fahrenheit. I'm only going to be 23 in Celsius.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So I'm. I'm sticking with it.

[B]

Thank you. I'll remember that. Yeah.

[A]

How old are you, Bill? Well, 23 in Celsius. So. So your newest book, the Million Dollar Financial Team, Financial Advisor Team, provides a pretty comprehensive look into strategies tax advisors can use to reach Million Dollar advisor status and beyond. I've picked a few of those strategies that I want to ask you about today. But before we get to that strategic and even tactical level. Gosh. What do you see as the common denominators of successful advisors? Any 1, 2, 3 kind of common things that seem to stand out for you?

[B]

Yeah. So you know, again, you shared these questions with me in advance. I had some time to think about it and I came up with seven okay. Characteristics. They, it could be 15, but, but these are the seven that, that stand out to me. As I thought about your question and, and 1, 1, and this is not in order, it was just as I thought about it, is that the, the most successful advisors that I've worked with over the years are optimists by nature. They look at the cup half full, they realize there's a tremendous opportunity in terms of growing their practices. They're realistic about the fact that markets can go up and down, but overall their view is a positive outlook. And that is pervasive in the way they think, the way they communicate. It's a common characteristic of being optimistic in their view of life, of their jobs, of their clients and of everything. Actually. The other thing that I feel like the top advisors all share is they have a lot of confidence in their ability to make a positive difference in the lives of their clients. They really, it's not arrogance, it's not, you know, being conceited in any way. It's just a deep seated confidence that they're capable of making a positive difference in their clients lives and they communicate that in that high level of confidence. Another quality is empathy. I think the best advisors, while they are goal oriented for sure and achievement oriented at the same time they care. And clients feel, and prospective clients feel that they care. So it's kind of a combination of being driven on the one hand, but also being empathetic and caring that I find that that combination is characteristic of top advisors. Another characteristic that you probably won't be surprised about is they're never satisfied. No matter how much they do, they want to do more. And it isn't just about making more money or being at the top of the score sheet or whatever. It's about being the very best they're capable of being and they're driven to be their very best. And it's a characteristic that all top advisors have. They're effective communicators. And what I mean by that is that, you know, we can get into some pretty complex topics and issues and subjects in this business and they have the ability to take, you know, complicated and you know, oftentimes confusing numbers and distill it so that people that don't have that kind of background, can understand it. They're able to simplify complex, top complex topics and clients appreciate and can relate to that. They're process oriented. They understand that process is one of the most effective time management procedures they can have and they really establish process on most everything they do. And finally, they're good time managers. They're aware of their time, they know what the most productive activities are and they spend the majority of their time doing that and build teams around them so that they can spend the majority of their time doing the most productive things. So that's my relatively short list, Bill, of 7 characteristics of top advisors.

[A]

Well, I hope the listeners are kind of rating themselves in all those as you went. So let's dive into some specific strategies. I know in your book you talk about client segmentation. I know many advisors swear by the importance of this. You know, who are their A's, who are their B's, who are their C's? And I like to add who are their Y's, like why am I still doing business with this person? Right? And they tailor their service model accordingly. Others seem to resist segmentation. I've worked with some folks who just try to give everybody the same high level of service and I guess if you have 75 high level clients you can do that, but if you have 200, that's almost impossible. So I'm just curious where you stand on this idea of segmentation.

[B]

So Bill, I'm a big believer as you, as you referenced in segmentation, I think that advisors are much more productive when they're thoughtful about segmenting their practice. And you know, I can tell you as a general, just as a general rule, I can predict that 75 to 80% of a client of a FA's revenue is, is really generated by 50 clients. You know, there's some, there's some variations to that. But, but most advisors, you know, 70 to 80% of their revenue is their top 50 clients. And yet most advisors that I've worked with don't necessarily spend their time 70% of their time to 80% of the time with their top 50 clients. And what tends to happen is that they over service their smaller clients at the expense of their larger ones, which isn't a good business model. And so when we coach financial advisors, we tell them to really, you know, take some time and segment your, your, your, your practice into really three tiers. Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3. In, in the Tier 1 segment is your, your top 50. And people often say, well, what's your definition of top 50. And I said it's a combination of revenue generated and assets under management. And and then the second tier are are clients that aren't in the top 50 but have the potential to be. They, you know, are are individuals that, you know, do have the potential to grow their assets or revenue over time. And in the third segment are really the smaller clientele that really don't have the potential and really probably aren't capable in being in at least a top hundred. And then for the advisors to really focus on the senior advisors on the top 50 and cultivate the second tier and then delegate the third tier to a relationship manager or someone else on their team that can handle the coverage with them on a regular basis.

[A]

Yeah, I like that. I know that when I talk about it related to referrals, we know that people tend to refer lateral and down on the economic ladder there's always exceptions. So if we're going to be proactive, then who are going to be proactive with well, it's going to be the tier ones and maybe the tier twos. So we have to allocate our time appropriately that way for the referral process. So we'll be right back after a word from two of our show's sponsors.

[C]

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[A]

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[C]

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[A]

Welcome back Dave. One trend I've noticed over the last several years has been a shift from talking about client service to client experience to your thinking, is this just semantics or is there a tangible difference? And what do you teach your advisor clients about client service versus client experience?

[B]

Yeah, it's a great, it's a great point and I haven't heard it framed the way just framed it. But I like the terminology and I'm a proponent of what you termed as client experience. And I'll dig into this a little bit more. Essentially what financial advisors at the most basic level provide is trust. That's why people engage financial advisors. They trust that they'll take care of them and their families and their financial welfare. In my experience, there's really three levels of trust that an advisor has to have in order to really have that highest level of trust. The first is what I would call ethical behavior and that's table stakes. I mean you have to do that. And when I define ethical behavior, it's that your actions and your words always align. You do what you say you're going to do. The second level of trust is professional competence and that is that the client believes that the advisor knows what they're doing at a high level. They're really good at what they do. They have experience, they have knowledge, and the client trusts that. The third and the highest level of trust is what I call the advisor having a stake in the client's life. They're stakeholders. And what I mean by that is that the client feels that the advisor cares about them and their family, not just managing their money or not just being a client, but a person. And that they really have a high level of empathy and care for them and their families. That's being a shareholder in their life. And the way an advisor does that or accomplishes that is they really pay attention to the personal interactions that they have with the clients. They show they care about them and their families. They acknowledge special events in their life. They, you know, they ask about, you know, things that are personal. They reference their children and grandchildren. You know, they go to funerals, they visit the hospital, they send flowers. They, you know, send, you know, provide, you know, a bottle of wine. When a client goes on a trip, they take that extra effort. They do random acts of kindness. When they hear something is happening with the client's life, they act on it. And so that, to me, is providing a client experience.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Rather than just providing client service, being a shareholder in the client life, which, which then leads to the client having the highest level of trust. And when that accomplishes or when that occurs, they provide referrals, they give the, the advisor all their assets and they never leave. So that, that is the end game. Provider experience.

[A]

I mean, what you're talking about, I sometimes refer to that as building the quote, unquote, business friendship, where you start to know each other and care about each other in ways that go beyond the core work that you do. And to me, that's, that's the secret sauce to advocates is that business friendship. Those folks, not only do they want to share your value with others, but they don't mind helping you share your value with others. And that's how you create those advocates. Great way to think about the experience. I like that. Another, another, I think, overlooked aspect of the client experience is the onboarding process. Right. You've got the prospect experience. That's the courtship of deciding, you know, is it a match? And then you got the, the ongoing experience once they become a client. But then you have that in between, let's call it the first 90 days or so of the relationship. You know, know, some folks I've coached and interviewed for this podcast have very clear onboarding process. Ryan Sweet calls it the 90 day dazzle. Rod Gibbings calls it the transition navigator. They've kind of figured out their process. Others realize they're really missing a huge opportunity here. They're not. You know, they. They transfer the assets, they do a plan. There's all this flurry of activity, and then it's like dead silence for three months, six months, and the client's going, what happened to this relationship I was building? So I'm just curious where you stand on this idea of the onboarding in the first, let's say, 90 days of the relationship.

[B]

Well, it sounds like you and. You and I and your other guests are in agreement of the 90 day experience being so important. The way I like to frame it when I coach advisors on it, is that you want to build a reputation or your brand of under promising and over delivering. And that occurs in the first 90 days because when the client actually transfers their assets to you, it's a real act of trust and faith, because, frankly, you haven't done anything for them yet other than promise. And if you can exceed their expectations in that first 90 days, you really set the course for the entire relationship. And so I believe that the first 90 days is critically important, and having an onboarding checklist that you follow is a best practice. And that onboarding checklist could include introducing the client to the other members of your team. It could include sending them a small gift in appreciation that is meaningful. It's making sure that. That you pay particular attention to the transfer process and that there. There's no glitches in that. You really oversee that process to make sure that it's smooth and, you know, that there aren't any problems. You review their statements with them, you know, personally, so that they understand that you check in with them every couple of weeks. You know, just, hey, how's everything going? Is there anything we need to do? Is there any questions you have? I know this is a new experience for you working with us. We want to make sure you're okay and what that really does, and I know this is probably consistent with your approach, Bill, is it really sets the stage for, you know, the first referral conversation, because after 90 days, you check in with the client and you say, hey, Bill, you know, I feel really good about, you know, our work together so far, and I wanted to check in with you. How do you feel about things? Bill says, oh, gosh, Dave, I feel great. You know, you've really gone overboard and, you know, exceeded my expectations. And that's where you make the offer to help by saying, if there are some other people that you know that would appreciate our work, the way you've experienced it, we'd be happy to talk to them. So it really sets the stage for that first referral conversation. If you do that. Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Good.

[A]

Yeah. We are in agreement. It's a combination of what I'll call, you know, value oriented things like reviewing a statement, other educational things we can send to them, and then also the personal side, introducing them to other team members, taking them to lunch, whatever. So you brought up referrals, so in a minute, that's what I want to talk about next. But first, it's time for another quick break from the folks that make this show possible.

[C]

I have coached and interviewed many advisors who report significant success with their podcast. A podcast can create deeper engagement with your clients and attract more right, fit clients to your practice. I've been working with the folks at Proudmouth since the inception of this show. Not only do they take care of the nuts and bolts of producing and hosting the episodes, but they've shown me how to increase my influence and attract more business. Proudmouth has a tool they call the Managed Influence Accelerator that creates a powerful content ecosystem that amplifies your voice, builds your influence, and drives real growth. And their sonic boom coaching program with podcast pro Matt Halloran will guide you through the entire process. They'll make sure you have the right strategies in place and then employ the exact right tactics for you. Podcasting isn't for everyone. And with that said, I think you owe yourself a look at how having a podcast can help you play bigger and build a better business. To book your free strategy session, go to proudmouth.com Kate's that's proudmouth.com for forward/ Cates.

[A]

So let's talk about referrals. Now, on your website, you offer something you call the Referral Immersion system. So what is your take on how advisors can do a better job getting more referrals that turn into introductions that turn into new clients?

[B]

That's almost like a separate podcast.

[A]

Yeah, it could be. It's been my life's work for. It's been my Life's work for 30 years. But just give us a. Give us a little.

[B]

No, I will. I understand. I was just saying there's a lot to that question.

[A]

Yes, there is.

[B]

So I'll try to be again in preparation. This call, I tried to condense it to really, you know, four points that clearly could be expanded. But I'll jump into it. One is that the research all shows, and this is, you know, the industry research, all collaborate on this point. And that is if a high net worth client is highly satisfied, they're willing to provide referrals. I mean, 70 to 80% of highly satisfied, high net worth clients have said they're willing to provide their advisor with a referral. That's a fact. There's no dispute about that. And yet when these same clients are asked, have you had a referral conversation with your advisor in the last year? Only 10% respond that they have. And so there's this big disconnect between advisors on what clients are willing to provide and what, what they're, they're asking for. Because clearly, if only 10% are having referral conversations and 80% of clients, highly satisfied clients, are willing to provide a referral to make any sense logically. And so it really gets into the psychology of, of, of, of how advisors think and what they don't want to come, they don't want to come across as needy or pushy or you know, focusing on them. They want to focus on the client. And so what we tell advisors is that you really have to think about it as doing a favor for a client because you're helping people that they care about the way you've helped them and the clients are willing to have that conversation. You just have to go into it with the mindset that it's not an ask, it's a gift. If we can get advisors to think of it that way, then the psychology of referrals changes and the willingness increases. So I call that kind of the right mindset. So that's number one. Number two is, as I mentioned before, one of the characteristics of top advisors is that they are very process oriented. And I have a favorite quote that I'll share, and that is process saves us from the poverty of our intentions.

[A]

And with that, say that, say that again. I want to write that down. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Process saves us from the poverty of our intentions. And you know, just to translate that quickly is we all have good intentions that aren't often, aren't always acted upon. But, but if you have a process that you follow, then intentions are always done because you follow the process. And so we believe strongly that advisors should have a referral process that is part of their practice. And our referral process is, and I'm sure, Bill, there are common elements between what you share and what we do. And that is have it on an agenda during a review where you're face to face with the client and we call it offer to help, you know, and it's at the end of the agenda you've delivered, you know, you've spent time with the client, there's goodwill created. You come to that point on the agenda and you offer to help other people they care about. And our view is it's best done in person. The agenda commits the advisor to the process so that, you know, the client sees it, the advisor has to do it, saves them from the poverty of their intentions. And so we feel that's really important. And we also feel that having a formal referral conversation doesn't have to happen after every review. If you do it right, maybe once, twice a year is all you really have to do it. Because if you do it well, then you're going to get the results. Number three is specificity. The more specific you are in your referral ask, the more likely you're going to get a referral. And number four is prep, is preparation, and that is look, if you're only going to have one or two referral conversations a year, make it count, don't wing it. Think about names of people you can bring up. Think about what the client's response is likely to be. Kind of practice your verbiage so it comes across sincere rather than scripted or awkward. We find that if an advisor follows those basic four principles, and there is a lot more to it than I can describe just today, but those are the basics. Follow those four basic principles, then they're going to have a 30% success rate in terms of their referral success. And so if, if, if you have 30 clients, or let's just use 30 of your best clients that you have referral conversations with once a year, once a year could be more. But just say once a year and each referral conversation is 10 minutes, that's 300 minutes a year divided by 60 minutes for an hour, that's five hours a year to get eight qualified referrals. There's not a more productive strategy you could have than that. So that, in a NutShell, is my 40 years of experience in training advisors on referrals.

[A]

Well, yeah, we're definitely reading from the same playbook. I teach something similar, and I just want to emphasize one of the things you talked about is this is not about the old methodology that used to be taught, like how I get paid. I get paid in two ways or three ways or I'm trying to build my business. I could really use your help. It's, it's who's next, right? One guy I coached, I've been coaching him for 15 years. He now personally has Over a billion of assets under management. And you know how he has referrals, he goes, you know, he does a little value check. He says, yeah, I'm glad you're seeing value in work. I got, I got a happy client, you know, who's next. It's just so simple. But yeah, coming specific, it really makes a huge difference. That's one of the biggest mistakes I've seen folks make is they just kind of throw it open to the whole universe person. They go, can you think of anyone? And they don't think anyone. Right. And so we want to be specific. Yeah, good stuff. Before we go any further, Dave, because I do have another question. But sure. Tell us a little bit about Altius. Learning how, how can our listeners learn more about your firm?

[B]

Well, thanks for asking, Bill. You know, the best way to learn more about Altius is to go to our, our website, Altius A L T I U S Learning just like it sounds, learning.com and you know one, there, there, there's a lot of information on there, a lot, a lot of information that is available to anybody that, that, that goes to our website that you might find helpful. But you know, I just draw your attention to one of the tabs where it is, where, where it, where it says who are we? And it really talks about the bios of the Altius coaches. And something that we're all proud of is that we've all built successful practices ourselves. We've all been financial advisors, we built million dollar practices and we've all been managers of advisors where we've hired and trained hundreds, if not thousands of advisors. And we've all had at least 30 years of experience in being financial advisors. We don't know a lot about a lot of things, but we know a lot about this business. It's all we've ever done. We've sat in your chairs. We know your challenges firsthand, we know your fears, we know your motivation because we've all been there. And that's a value proposition that we feel is unique in the industry because of our depth of experience of doing exactly what you've done. And adding to that is the fact that we've worked with many, if not most of the top advisors in the industry. My books have all been based on interviews and experiences, not with me and what I've done, but with the most successful advisors in the industry. So we've been able to draw from people that have done it well and we share that with advisors that aspire to do it well. We've been in the business 18 years. I founded Altius Learning and 2007 and that was after a 30 year career with a 27 year career with Merrill Lynch. So the other thing I would say about Altius that is worth noting is that our approach is very tactical. We understand that advisors want to know where's the beef? They want to know the language, they want to know the scripting, they want to know exactly what to say. You know, theory is great, you know, but it's really about how and getting it done. And so understanding that's what advisors want. Our training and coaching is very tactically oriented. So, Bill, I hope that wasn't too much of a commercial, but you can tell I'm passionate about our value proposition. And I, I get, I get wired up when asked about it.

[A]

Yeah, I, I, that's great. And I agree with you around the tactical side. I, I mean, I think people need to know the principles, people need to know the strategies. And at the end of the day, you got to know how to implement them. Right.

[B]

And, Right.

[A]

That's why, that's where I wrote my book, the language of referrals. The language, right. People say, bill, so how do I say that? What does it sound like? And then if, if you give them the right language, you've seen this, right? If you tell them what it would look like, how you execute it, then all of a sudden that strategy that they resisted now opens up to them, doesn't it?

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Yeah. Good. So the, the last topic I'd like to address is, is that of centers of influence and strategic partnerships in my interview with Duncan McFerson, episode number 80, which I do recommend you listen to after you finish this one. So with Duncan, he, he encourages advisers to stop thinking in terms of centers of influence in favor of the term strategic partnerships. The former being what he considers kind of advisor centric and the latter being more client centric. So I'm curious where you come down on this and how advisors can do a better job forming more productive relationship with these influencers.

[B]

So it's an important question and I'll answer it by sharing some research that we've done interviewing centers of influence that are active referral sources for advisors. And we've asked them, you know, why do you provide referrals to advisors? You know, what, what, what has to accomplish for you to do that? And there's essentially two things that have to happen. One is that there has to be a relationship of trusting and liking the advisor. Because before that's accomplished, referrals aren't going to it's not going to happen. And so the advisors that want to build strategic relationships, or strategic partnerships as you've termed it, need to be willing to invest in investing in developing rather relationships of trust and like with centers of influence that they're going to have referral conversations with. And that takes time. And one of the reasons that advisors struggle with this strategy or don't have success with it is they're not willing to invest the upfront time in building those trusting relationships. And so we recommend that advisors start with their clients own CPAs and attorneys because they have a natural reason to get to know them because they have a joint mutual client relationship. And it starts out with getting to know them better and sharing the advisor's value proposition and then staying in touch with them, providing them information, you know, having continuing education courses for them, including them in client events, you know, learning about what they like to do for fun and you know, in engaging with them on that, you know, you know, providing lunches during tax time for their staff. I mean there's a hundred different ways of doing that. But the key is you got to build that relationship of like and trust. Well, once that's built, that's not enough. It has to go one step further. And that is the, the, once the like and trust relationship has been built, the COI has to understand how you provide client a value to their clients. Because just liking and trusting you isn't enough. It goes back to being specific. And we recommend it. We recommend a technique or tactic that we call, you know, that, that really is about case studies. And that's as the relationship of like and trust is being built, sharing with the center of influence, the CPA and attorney, examples of clients that you've helped and an offer to help clients that they have that you know they have that are like that. And so it's this combination of building relationships and then being strategic and sharing with them case studies of people you can help so that the CPA and attorney can be really clear on where you can provide the most value for their clientele. Because at the end of the day, that's their motivation. It's not to help you do more business, it's to enhance the relationship that they have with their clients by providing value by introducing you to the, introducing them to you or the advisor. So those are my high level thoughts about building strategic relationships.

[A]

Yeah, and I think it's similar in a way to what we do with our clients. We provide value and we build what I term business friendship. Well, same thing with These strategic partnerships. Absolutely right. They understand, they appreciate our value. We know one of the biggest fears I've seen from accountants, attorneys particularly, is they want to protect their relationship with their clients. And the fear is that somehow this advisor may screw that up. And, and so that's why they're very careful. So we have to do our job to become super referable in their eyes right before they're going to do that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Wonderful. My featured guest on today's show has been Dave Mullen, founder of Altius Learning, whose mission is developing million dollar plus advisors. Dave, you know, thank you for sharing your wisdom, for your great energy and I hope our listeners found a lot of value from this. Thank you.

[B]

It was my pleasure, Bill. Thanks for the opportunity to share my thoughts with your listeners and look forward to, you know, working with you again sometime.

[A]

Yeah, I appreciate it. Thank you to you. The listener of the podcast may ask you a small favor. If you like this episode or like the podcast in general, please leave a five star review on the platform you're listening to the show. Not all platforms have a place for reviews, but if yours does, like Apple podcasts, for instance, we're about 75% of our listeners listen. We, we'd love a review, we'd love a, a comment. So thank you for that. Top Advisor podcast is sponsored by the folks at Proudmouth who help advisors increase client engagement and attract more ideal clients. And I should also add, produce this podcast for me. Great folks at Proudmouth. And this episode is sponsored by Harbor Capital, an asset manager known for curating an intentionally selected suite of active ETFs from boutique managers as well as ironclad family who brings you I Vault X, a financial advisor enablement tool focused on upping your game as a holistic advisor. I invite you to come visit me@coach Kates.com that's Coach Kates.com and if you or any in your organization you're affiliated with, bring in speakers, I'd love to see if I can be a resource for you. Love speaking to groups. As we're recording this, I'm two days away from traveling to Brazil to speak to 600 advisors in Brazil. I don't know much Portuguese, but luckily it's being interpreted. So would love to learn an opportunity to speak to you and your group just go to Bill Kates speaking.com Bill Kates speaking.com so it's been Bill Cates reminding you that ideas do not make you more successful. Only acting on those ideas will bring you the success you desire. Thanks for stopping by. Thank you for listening to the Top Advisor Podcast brought to you by Proud Mouse Pod Rocket Academy. I encourage you to Visit my website, referralcoach.com for links to my books, online courses and to register for the Cates Academy.