Audrey Ingram (4:42)

Thank you so much for having me.

Zibby Owens (4:43)

I remember when this manuscript came in and we all read it and were obsessed. It was so good. And then we got the book and we were so excited. And now fast forward. Here it is. We have a galley in my hands and seeing the finished copies. So, so exciting.

Audrey Ingram (4:57)

It's been a joy. Start to finish.

Zibby Owens (4:59)

Yay. Okay, tell listeners what the summary Ran is about.

Audrey Ingram (5:03)

Sure. So it is about first loves turned political rivals and it follows Tess and Grant, who meet as teenagers and despite their very different backgrounds, fall deeply in love. But their summer romance ends in heartbreak and tragedy and unfortunate secrets they keep from one another. And then they don't see each other again until 25 years later when they are both running for governor of Virginia.

Zibby Owens (5:28)

Such a good plot. Like it's just such a great pitch. How did you come up with this idea?

Audrey Ingram (5:32)

I think I had the idea for the premise, an unlikely love story between two opposing political candidates. But I wanted to tell a story that really wove together both of their perspectives, which was a challenge for me to write a story both from the female and the male protagonist. And it was a winding path to get there. But I'm just so happy with how the story turned out.

Zibby Owens (5:56)

It's so good, the coming of age piece of it, right. That when you're so vulnerable and that love and open hearted and then brokenhearted feeling you capture so well, particularly because you frame it in sort of an illicit affair to begin with, so to speak. Talk about why this was an unlikely alliance to begin with.

Audrey Ingram (6:18)

I think there's this kind of unity, universal feeling of that first love that a lot of people can relate to, the kind of hope and uncomfortable feeling of yourself coming into who you are as you're falling in love with someone. And I really wanted to tap into those, those feelings that we all can relate to between two people who are very, very different. And throughout the story I was really trying to find themes where there are, where universally we can relate to these things and we can connect with these characters. And then it's just, it's fun. I grew up watching those shows like the West Wing and Scandal and now I love the Diplomat and that world of kind of political intrigue and scandal. It has this, this kind of you can't look away feeling to it. And I thought juxtaposing this young, innocent love with then these like high stakes of an election and all of the tension that that brought was a really fun way of telling a powerful love story.

Zibby Owens (7:22)

So true. So when Tess gets to this southern Virginia summer, right, she is the daughter of the cook who is hired at this beautiful home and Grant is the next door neighbor. How do they meet? Tell me about that. Talk about, like how you created that tension within the family, allegiance to her mom versus to her love. Because then we have that whole thing at the beginning.

Audrey Ingram (7:51)

Yeah. So I live in Virginia and I knew when I was starting to think about this story and the premise of Political Rivals, I wanted to set it here because in a lot of ways this is a love note to the state of Virginia that is my home now. And I just think it's one of the most beautiful places. And so I wanted to transport the reader to that area. So when Tess grows up in an area of southwest Virginia, a very modest upbringing, and she is thrust into this world of opulence, these you really Grand Estates. As you're driving through the countryside in this area of Virginia, it's one of these things where you see, like, a stone entrance and like, maybe a little peek, peekaboo view of this grand estate. And I. I wanted Tess to feel like that fish out of water coming into this area that she felt so uncomfortable, and yet she was falling for this boy next door who is very immersed in this world. And how does that make her feel? How can she kind of navigate this new world? Who are her guides in this world? And so she starts, you know, she has her mother who has very nervous ideas about them being in here, because it is a big deal to have this job, and it is this potential for a new life for them. And then you also have Grant's mother, who is really kind of taking Tess in under her wing. They have this shared love for gardening and how that relationship develops.

Zibby Owens (9:16)

I loved that gardening storyline, which, of course, with the COVID we were like, we needed there to be flowers. All about the gardening. It's so beautiful. You must know now about gardening. Tell me, do you. Are you into gardening? Like, because I loved that relationship and how it. It bloomed, let's just say.

Audrey Ingram (9:33)

Well, we. My husband and I, we lived in Washington, D.C. and wanted a change of pace. And so we moved to this area of Virginia that's about an hour outside the city, and it's a very rural area. And we bought a house that was on some acreage, and it ended up the original owners had owned a nursery at. At one point in time and had used their kind of home and their gardens as their testing ground. And so we have these beautiful trees and just like almost an acre of peony beds and boxwoods. And we were just in awe of it and had absolutely no idea what to do with it. And so I started learning. I started reading gardening books from my library, talking to people, going to the local gardening stores. And I'll never forget the first year we moved in. I planted a bunch of mint because I love mint. And it took over the entire bed. And so I've made every novice gardening mistake that everybody makes, but it is this trial and error, and it's something where you can really see the fruits of your labor. And I find it so rewarding. And it is something that really kind of transcends class. There's this theme of class and how you navigate different situations throughout the book. And in my experience, you go to a gardening shop and there are people who are growing their food. Then there are people who live at these beautiful Estates, and they do it as a hobby, and it really is something that is a connector. And everyone loves chatting at our gardening shop about whether you're going to plant before or after Mother's Day, when the first frost is going to come. It's a way to kind of connect people. And I think that was something I really wanted to. To explore in the story, those connections.

Zibby Owens (11:13)

Well, as we're talking, it's a little before the launch, and the daffodils have now peeked their heads out all over here in Central park and New York. And I always look and I'm like, oh, my gosh. They just lie dormant all year, and then they have their moment and then they go away. And it's something so reassuring that these beautiful things come back time and time again, no matter how much hard stuff comes in between the blooms.

Audrey Ingram (11:39)

Yeah.

Zibby Owens (11:40)

Deep thoughts for the morning. There you go. So it's not all roses at the estate and in this relationship. And there are some tough, very disturbing things that happen. We won't go into it because they become, you know, plot elements, but it's not always easy. Things are not always as beautiful as they seem. A big house does not mean things are perfect. Talk a little bit about that and sort of what we think about other people and what might be going on behind the scenes and how it feels adding this, like, sort of heaviness to something that could seem pretty idyllic.

Audrey Ingram (12:17)

Yeah, I think that's so true. And I think in my personal experience, I have lived some very heavy moments in my life. I think I've yet to meet someone who hasn't also lived some heavy moments in our lives. And a lot of times we try to just focus on the positive. And I think that that's a great mindset to have. We have to focus on the positive, but it doesn't negate the tragedy sometimes that we have had and how that has shaped who we become, how we view the world, and how we interact with others. And I think more than anything, this book is about the ways in which stories are bridges. We may be very, very different from someone. We may disagree with them fundamentally, but hearing their story creates a bridge to us understanding who they are. And oftentimes, it is those really hard, difficult moments, moments in life that give us an understanding into who someone is, why they feel some way, what their outlook is. And hearing those stories, I think, creates an empathy and an understanding and a connection in life that is so critical and, in my opinion, needed at this time.

Zibby Owens (13:28)

You're so right. We should do A prompt like tell me about your heaviest moments. Right. Because that will tell you so much about a person. Doesn't mean sad. I mean, heavy is such an interesting choice of words of yours. You know, I don't know. I think that will bring an instant closeness because we all, as you said, have these moments.

Audrey Ingram (13:45)

It does. And as a reader, you bond with a character who has been through something heavy because you hopefully want to see them come out of that. And I think that's so true in life as well. We crave stories of resilience and hope. And I think that comes from a heaviness so true.

Zibby Owens (14:01)

Then you fast forward well, you know, to you have another story, another timeline storyline with the election and all of that. How much research did you have to do? How much did you know before? I mean, maybe proximity to D.C. you know, like everything. Anyway, what did you. Were there surprising things you found along the way and just tell me a little bit about that.

Audrey Ingram (14:24)

Yeah, I was. I have my entire life been a political junkie. I thought it was fascinating. I worked on a gubernatorial campaign and so I was fascinated by it and then also fascinated by all the drama behind the scenes of the campaign. So I did have that background coming into it. And I for a long time thought maybe I'll get into politics. And it wasn't until I moved to D.C. and lived in D.C. that I, like a lot of the country, became totally disillusioned with the reality of politics. But that kind of background of an election and candidates I still find fascinating. And I still have hope for a different political dynamic at some point in the future.

Zibby Owens (15:06)

It's not too late. You could still run. The summer we ran could be about you this summer. You never know.

Audrey Ingram (15:13)

Plot twist.

Zibby Owens (15:14)

Audrey Ingram for District Whatever.

Audrey Ingram (15:17)

I think I like novelist a little bit better. Although I have lived a thousand lives, I've had many titles. This is my favorite by far.

Zibby Owens (15:25)

So you started as a lawyer. Tell us about your whole career.

Audrey Ingram (15:28)

Sure. So I was an attorney in Washington D.C. for many, many years. And then when the pandemic hit, like a lot of families was really struggling juggling childcare. I had three young kids at the time. My law firm was really wonderful and gave me a leave of absence. And I was one of these super commuters. I still, even though we lived out here in Virginia, I was commuting in D.C. so I was used to waking up very early in the morning. And I loved staying at home with my kids. I loved being a stay at home mom. But I found I needed a little something more something that was just of my own. And so I kind of couldn't turn my brain off from waking up those early morning when I started writing my first novel and I, you know, finished it and got an agent and got it published and it was really just a dream and never went back. Never went back to practicing law.

Zibby Owens (16:20)

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Audrey Ingram (21:52)

Yeah, so I wrote the first book, I guess, starting in 2021. And when that book, when I was querying it and trying to find an agent was when I wrote the SC Summer we ran because I needed something else to kind of put my brain to focus on because it is agony waiting. So it was not just a. I wrote my first book and got an agent, got a publisher. The way I said before, it was a lot of waiting, sending out emails, crossing your fingers and hoping. And so I was always kind of working on a different project, bouncing back and forth, which was great for my sanity, but it did take a while. So I, I guess it took took like six to nine months to get an agent. And then the publishing deal came quickly after getting the agent that, that was. I felt like very, very lucky for that to have happened so quickly. But it's been, you know, it was scary. It was scary to leave behind a very stable career, Especially when you have three kids. And I'm very grateful that I have, you know, a husband who has supported me through that, but it was not without risk. I'm very happy I did it.

Zibby Owens (22:54)

Wow. Do you miss the structure of, I mean, corporate attorney life is very much one thing. I mean, it's very different than the life of a novelist. Although I will say so many authors on this show have at one point been lawyers. I feel like if there's one career that leads more to writing, that is the most common path from a non traditional writing background.

Audrey Ingram (23:19)

Yeah, it's so fascinating. Lawyer and journalist, I hear those a lot. I feel like in a lot of ways I've had to rewire my brain because when you're an attorney and I worked at a big law firm, you, efficiency is king. You are literally accounting for your time in six minute increments. And as I'm sure you know, the process of writing a novel, at least for me, is so inefficient. There are days when I won't have written any words, but I will have figured out a plot point, But I won't see that kind of word count on the page jump up. And I had to really be kind to myself and say, this is efficiency in a creative concept. In writing a book, you are moving it forward. But it was a huge change for me and the timing of, you know, publishing a book takes A long time. There are a lot of moving pieces and I was used to things moving so much quicker. And so it was a big adjustment for me. It was such a necessary adjustment. I think I would have burned out at the pace I was going. It wasn't the, the law wasn't kind to who my kind of. I feel like my core. I like a slower pace. I've been. I'm enjoying this. I'm embracing it now. So it has been very good for me. But it took a while to get.

Zibby Owens (24:33)

There and we don't have to talk about this so we can change the subject, but I know you've gone through a big health hurdle recently yourself. How are you and what happened and how do you feel now? Even like doing publicity or we can skip it.

Audrey Ingram (24:47)

No, we don't have to skip it. It has been a doozy of a year. I this fall had a. A tear in the artery giving the blood flow into my brain and I developed a blood clot in my brain and talk about a mind shift because it was an inoperable blood clot. And so the treatment was really to take to be. I was hospitalized for a long time and then I was sent home and basically told, you know, don't lift anything heavier than a fork. Take your blood thinners every day and just wait, wait three months and hopefully the clot and the tear and everything will heal. And you will heal, but the way you heal is by doing nothing. Which for someone like me was really hard. I think at first I was like, oh, I can watch Netflix and lay in my bed for a little while. That certainly wasn't it. I was in a lot of pain. You have these really debilitating headaches and a lot of physical manifestations of this, but it was not feeling like a useful member of your family. Like I couldn't lift the laundry basket, I couldn't unload the dishwasher, I couldn't pick up my seven year old son. There was a lot that was really difficult. And the idea that to heal you have to rest was hard for me to grasp and because I'm always used to achieving something you need to be doing. But I did, I healed. I am every day getting a little bit better. I am feeling really good. I still struggle some days and I have to tell myself that that's okay, I can rest. My productivity is not where it used to be, but that's also okay too. I'm here and I think that's the most important thing is that I'm here and I think when you face something like that, where you're told time and time again by so many doctors that most people do not survive these. You are so lucky to have had it discovered and to be able to treat it. You are really confronted with what you want your life to be, how lucky you feel, the people that surround you. So there was a lot of. Still as challenging and terrible as it was, it was a. There was a lot that was really eye opening and an incredible learning experience for me.

Zibby Owens (26:55)

Audrey, I am so sorry. That is so hard. It's like you were on bed rest with no fun baby at the end, you know?

Audrey Ingram (27:03)

Yes. There was no baby at the end.

Zibby Owens (27:05)

Oh my gosh. And all the fear, I mean, how do you. How do you hold that lack of predictability too, right? That like. Cause the downside is so huge. How did you cope with that?

Audrey Ingram (27:19)

Yeah, I think that the fear and the anxiety is something I'm still really grappling with and learning how to trust your body because for so long, you know, I was told I really. This was all happening over the holidays. We couldn't travel because I couldn't ever be more than about 10 or 15 minutes away from a hospital because the stroke to death risk is so high and you have to get in so quickly and so you're constantly monitoring yourself. And it's very hard to turn that off, that fear. And I think when you're a mother as well, your mind very quickly starts spiraling to all the what if scenarios. And so I'm really having to start trusting myself again, figuring out what my physical limitations are, easing into things. I would love to go full speed back into the life I had before, but I know that's not possible. And really just being kind of. Of kind and gentle to myself. And I'm very lucky. I have people around me who are surrounding me with kindness and gentility. And so I'm very fortunate in that way. But it has been the eight year you hit the nail on the head. The constant worrying and anxiety was very difficult.

Zibby Owens (28:27)

Oh my gosh, I am so sorry. I mean, what a. I mean, from one day to the next, right? It's like, I mean, I guess that's how life works, right? It's not like anybody gets a warning.

Audrey Ingram (28:37)

It is, it is. But I will say this. I was in kind of the tail end of editing this story when all of this was happening. And it was so wonderful to be working with a publisher that was cared about me as a person and not just the book product. And it was just a joy to kind of be navigating the story and jumping in and out of these characters lives, they feel. So I don't think there's any characters that I've ever written for that I don't feel as connected to as these. And so their journey of love and healing was alongside my own, which was. I think I will always hold this story in a very special place in my heart because of that.

Zibby Owens (29:18)

That's beautiful. What do you think these characters are designed to teach us?

Audrey Ingram (29:23)

I think they're designed to teach us that we need to. We need to hear each other's stories. We really need to listen to one another and especially the people we disagree with. We need to hear them and hear their journeys. Stories really are bridges. I think it's. As a mother, it's why I want my kids to read stories about different people. It's the way you develop empathy. And a love story, I think is the best way to share that.

Zibby Owens (29:51)

The political climate is so divisive. Just when I think it can't get any more, it does. Like it's just so heightened right now. And I'm sure by the time this book comes out even more so. How do you respond to that? People are like, I don't care about stories. I will never change my mind. There are people who are firmly on when opposing camps all believe themselves to be right, that there is a right answer versus not. And both these candidates, Grant and Test, putting stakes in the ground and what they believe is right and yet finding the common ground between them. Talk about that.

Audrey Ingram (30:28)

Yeah. And I will say I feel all of those things. I have my own political beliefs and I hold them fiercely. And sometimes I think I don't want to hear that. But I will say more than anything, this book is not about politics. It is not about one side of one political issue. It's about the people behind that. And I think sometimes we lose sight of that. We see an identifying term of Democrat or Republican and that tells us everything we need to know. When really that isn't the case, we are ignoring the people behind that. And I think this book is really about two individuals and their love story. And I think it will. Hopefully people will see that there's a lot more than just a label that we give someone.

Zibby Owens (31:15)

I hope that's enough.

Audrey Ingram (31:19)

It's a small thing, but.

Zibby Owens (31:21)

No, it's not a small thing. It's a big thing. It's wonderful. Stories. Of course. I love how you said stories are bridges. You know, I'm always talking about stories, connecting people, but it Is true. It is a bridge, you know, from heart to heart, really. Right. We're climbing across and trying to get in there and find the common humanity in it all. So, yeah. Beautiful. Would there ever be a continuation? Have you ever thought like, where are they now? Type of thing?

Audrey Ingram (31:47)

I think about them often. I've never written a book thinking that it was going to be part of a series. I always want to write the story that is kind of the most critical time in these characters lives, and that's what I set out to do with this story. But of all the characters I've ever written, they're the ones that I think about the most. And maybe they do have more. More in their future.

Zibby Owens (32:11)

Wow. Any advice to aspiring authors?

Audrey Ingram (32:15)

Yeah, I will say what's worked for me is that books are the best teachers. I like to read. I think whatever genre you want to write in, you should be reading, but you should also be reading much broader than that because you can learn so much from the books you love. But then also the books you aren't enjoying, why aren't you enjoying them? Is there a pacing problem? Are you not connecting with the characters? I think you can learn so much through reading books. And then from a recovering perfectionist, I will say the best writing advice I've ever gotten was you can't edit a blank page. You've just got to write. And sometimes that can be very hard because you're trying to write a perfect sentence, a perfect story, but you really just need to get it out. And then you can always go back and edit it and so just. Just be okay with it being messy and imperfect. That's exactly the way it should be when you're first writing it.

Zibby Owens (33:05)

I love that. Well, Audrey, I'm so excited for the book to come out. I'm so excited for you and all your hard work to come to fruition despite everything you were going through all along. The summer rebrand is so great. It's as beautiful as the COVID and we're just so excited to be cheering you on as you go through this.

Audrey Ingram (33:25)

This. Well, thank you so much. It's really just been such a joy and I'm so excited for readers to get this story in their hands.

Zibby Owens (33:32)

Me too. Thank you, thank you, thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have Time to Read Books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review. Follow me on Instagram, Iby Owens and Spread the Word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books foreign.

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Audrey Ingram (34:50)

Nearest Lululem hey, it's Paige from Giggly Squad.

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