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- [00:01]
Zibby Owens
Clips from the Totally Booked Live series are now up on Instagram totallybooked with Zivi. Check it out.
- [00:11]
LinkedIn Advertiser
Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void? Well, with LinkedIn ads you can know you're reaching the right decision makers. You can even target buyers by job title, industry, company seniority skills. Wait, did I say job title yet? Get started today and see how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get started at LinkedIn.com results terms and conditions apply.
- [00:42]
Hannah Berner
Hi guys, it's Hannah from Giggly Squad with some around the corner. I wanted to tell you guys how I'm staying comfy and stylish. Lululemon is my secret weapon. There are plenty of copycats out there, but nothing compares to the Lululemon fabrics and fit. I've literally had my pair of Lululemon since college and I'm out of college. I know I don't look it, but I am. The quality is next level. I especially love the Lululemon Align Collection. It's made with this weightless, buttery, soft nulu fabric that feels like next to nothing. It's so soft, whether you're in Align pants, shorts, a bra, tank, skirt, a dress, you get non stop flexibility in every direction so you can stretch the summer limits align even wicks sweat and as a sweaty girl. I love this. You know it's going to be my best friend when I play tennis this summer. Shop the Align collection online@lululemon.com or your nearest Lululemon store.
- [01:37]
Farah Pets Advertiser
You were made for going the extra mile for your pet and Farah Pets was made to do the same. Fera Pets supplements are vet created with innovative ingredients that combine eastern and western therapies so your pet can thrive. After all, you would do anything to help your pet feel their best. And so would we. Visit Farah Pets.com pod to get 20% off today. That's F E R A pets.com pod Farah Pets we Were made for this.
- [02:09]
Zibby Owens
Hi, this is Zibby Owens and you're listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have Time to Read Books. In my daily show I interview today's latest best selling, buzziest or underrated authors and story creators who work I think is worth your time. As a bookstore owner, publisher, author and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to stay in the know, get insider insights and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zibbymedia.com and follow me on Instagram. Iby Owens Brian Kelly is the author of how to Win at Travel. He is the founder of the Points Guy, the leading voice in loyalty programs, points miles, credit cards and travel. He has grown TPG the Points Guy to be a powerhouse travel and lifestyle media platform that reaches over 10 million unique monthly visitors around the world. Kelly has found a distinctive way to reach his audience and inspire millions to live their best lives through his supercharged personality and deep industry knowledge and extensive worldwide travel. He has been recognized with awards and accolades like Forbes Number 1 Travel Influencer, Travel and Leisure's Most Notable People in Travel Adweek's Young Influentials list and as an Out 100 recipient. He recently did an event at Zibby's Bookshop and was so kind because he donated all the book profits from the event to help the LA Fire Department after the fires. So thank you so much to Brian for being so generous and giving credit to those firefighters who deserve it for all of their bravery and we are so happy you came and visited us at the store. Welcome back to Totally Booked with Zippy. I am so excited to be here with Brian Kelly today, the Points Guy to talk about how to Win at Travel. So exciting. Congratulations.
- [04:06]
Brian Kelly
Thank you so much.
- [04:07]
Zibby Owens
Oh my gosh, I have so many questions. I travel all the time and this is on my mind constantly in every way, shape or form. But first, how did you become the points guy starting the whole company? Take us back. I know you write about it in.
- [04:22]
Brian Kelly
The book so before I was the points guy I was the points kid. So in the 90s I was just that 11 year old who was on the Internet. I mean my parents knew nothing about technology and I became the kind of computer genius of the family. I was on AOL those days when you used to have to put a modem in a computer and a phone line. The kids these days have no idea what we went through to get on the Internet.
- [04:46]
Zibby Owens
They don't, they have no respect.
- [04:47]
Brian Kelly
And long story short, my dad, I grew up outside of Philadelphia. He ended up getting a job for startup outside of in Chatsworth, California. So he was going back and forth, Louisiana, Philly, Road Warrior Travel and one day he came to me and said I have all these frequent flyer miles, I have no idea how to use them, I'm too busy. But I guess he just his 12 year old son who knew everything. Technology was like, if anyone can figure it out, it's Brian. And that's a tip I give a lot of parents these days, maybe not plan the entire trip to young kids, but giving them a portion of the trip to plan itinerary. I think so many of the skills around travel and planning, good trips and research are great for kids. So I took that and ran with it and I booked. I'm one of four kids. I booked our family of six. We went to the Cayman Islands for free. And I just remember thinking, how incredible is this? My dad had to miss so many basketball games. But every year on his points, our family of six took this epic trip to the Caribbean. So that's where I got my stripes and points. Never in a million years did I think many years later I would turn this into my business.
- [05:53]
Zibby Owens
But it was all because of your dad's pride in you, the original points guy. And you did it. Look at this trip.
- [05:58]
Brian Kelly
Oh, he loves coming to the book events. He will tell people that he's the original points guy. But yeah. So that's where I learned the basics. And then in 2007, after I graduated college, I ended up getting a job at Morgan Stanley where I was basically my dad. I was traveling nonstop. I learned very quickly how to maximize my corporate card choose. I was Delta. I was diamond when they first came out with that. And that was interesting time because during the Great Recession, I luckily had a job that I was still traveling and most business travel went off a cliff. So I all of a sudden had super elite status. And the airlines and the hotels were giving out tons of free flights. But interestingly, because I had all this business travel, but I wasn't getting paid money because I was in HR for a bank in 2008. And every year the banks were like, congratulations, your bonus is not getting laid off. Come back again next year. So I'm in my 20s, but I had all these miles. So it was a really interesting time in my life. I was living a double life because I had so many frequent flyer miles, elite status. I was leaving on the weekends to fly to stay in hotels where I would get the penthouse suite. So I'm in my 20s, I'm broke. But my points, it was cheaper for me to fly first class to London for a weekend where my breakfast and afternoon lounge at the hotel would get most of my meals and on the plane than it would be for me to stay in New York and have that dreaded going out to dinner with friends where everyone splits the bill. And I'm like really running tight. So I was points rich, cash poor. And finally in 2010, my ex at the time was like, you're a genius with this point stuff. You should start a business on it. So the points Guy started in 2010, and originally it wasn't even a blog. It was just I was a travel agent for points. So I would work at Morgan Stanley, come home, and as the points guy, I would charge you $50 a ticket. So people like you would come to me and say, I'm busy, I have all these amex points. I want to take my family to Italy. But when I go on Delta's website, it says nothing available. And in 2010, that was the years of it was feast or famine. So it was blackout dates. So you really had to be an expert. There were all these super expert tools that I knew. So that was my side hustle. I would come home, book people trips, and for me, and to this day, booking award trips. It's a crossword puzzle. It's like doing the crossword. And the satisfaction you get when you can beat an airline, you know, like the airline beating the airlines at their own game is just so joyful, you know, when they, you know, give us fees non stop and change fees, but like when you can use their program against them. So that's how the points guy started. And then a friend quickly told me this. He's like, this is 2010. He's like, I beg you to start a blog. This is when travel or fashion bloggers were starting to sit front row at fashion shows. It was this. I didn't know it at the time. I could sense there was something changing in media. But the way my friend looked at me, who's a very smart friend, he goes, I urge you, blog every day the same time and you will build the audience. Because. And it was true. Everywhere I went, people would be like, I have points, I don't know how to use them. So there were plenty of other points bloggers out there. People think I'm like the first one to kind of make this mainstream. But it was True.
- [09:11]
Zibby Owens
June of 2010, I thought you were just the best.
- [09:13]
Brian Kelly
Yeah, I mean, there are plenty of smarter people out there. But what I learned to do very quickly is leverage media. So the New York Times had reached out to me because the common media narrative in 2010 was, points are useless, blackout dates, you can't go anywhere. And there was huge frustration. And so I was kind of the voice saying, okay, in the media, stop writing these articles that are just Points are useless. Well, what if they're not? And I told you how. So the New York Times wrote a piece about the points guy in early 2011 and that post changed my life because unbeknownst to me, that New York Times link to an up and coming little blog just shot me into stardom in the sense that Google's main in 2011, the algorithm, if a blog had a link from the New York Times, it meant. So all of a sudden my traffic just went through the roof. And at the same time, the credit card companies started approaching me because I knew their products as a road warrior in and out. So when I authentically talked about the Delta credit card you need to have for the companion ticket, I'm using this companion ticket to fly to Hawaii first class was much more effective than them running a full page ad in the Wall Street Journal on just the credit card ad. So this was the new age of affiliate marketing which most media publishers, it felt a little spammy at the time. All the major travel pubs, they had huge traffic, so it was all display ads. But I came in and started a business around. I had a smaller audience but very engaged and I figured out very quickly that in the media I could be a new voice for this counter narrative. And it's pro consumer at the end of the day. To this day and why I wrote this book is there are still so many people leaving money on the table and points and miles. This whole loyalty ecosystem, it is the future. If you look through the pandemic, every single airline exists today because they leverage their loyalty programs to sell billions of dollars worth of miles to the credit card companies. These credit cards are not going away. In fact, especially with the softening economy now, the airlines more than ever are doubling down on loyalty. So if there's one message you get from the book, it's there's never been a better time. Get in now stop the narrative in your head that this game is over because a lot of people think, oh well, everyone's doing it now, therefore I missed the boat. And that couldn't be further from the truth.
- [11:38]
Zibby Owens
Well, you are so impressive. I want you to come in and help me with the book industry. If you don't mind spare time, you can.
- [11:43]
Brian Kelly
I have learned a lot about the book industry as a data and analytics person. Every day it's very interesting, the pipes or lack thereof in the industry to get real time signals. But I am happy to see book events. From what I hear, books are back and it was so cool to be able to go to so many independent shops like yours in Santa Monica and having standing room only crowds. So kudos to you for creating a really special community.
- [12:10]
Zibby Owens
Oh, thank you. That's so nice. Okay, points. So do I need the Delta credit card?
- [12:16]
Brian Kelly
So you know, credit cards are the foundation of any good point strategy. And there are like three simple flavors of credit card. The one that you everyone needs is a transferable points credit card. So that's not a Delta credit card. Because when you use a Delta credit card, you're earning only in Delta miles. Whereas with these transferable points credit cards, this is the Amex card Gold card. The Amex Gold card gives for example, four points per dollar on all dining and groceries. And those are two categories. We all spend a lot of money and the beauty of getting an Amex point is that you can transfer to delta one to one as if you had used a delta card or 32 other partners. So when you have these bank points that allow you to transfer to a number of carriers, it gives you so much more flexibility. Because while Delta is great, say you want to fly not Air France because they're partners, but Air France actually you could transfer Amex points to Air France and fly the same flight that you would fly with Delta for 50,000 points, whereas Delta now charges 350,000 to go to Europe. So 1/7 the price for the same exact flight just by using different loyalty programs. So I know it sounds confusing or if you want to ever fly the Emirates A380 with the shower in the sky, you can transfer Amex points to Emirates and all these different partners. So in order to get the most value out of your points these days, you need to have a diversified currency. So that's Amex membership rewards, Chase Ultimate Rewards, the Chase Sapphire preferred and reserve cards are amazing. Capital One Venture X, that's two points on every dollar you spend. Now I'm not saying you shouldn't have a Delta Amex. There are the airline co brands, the hotel co brands, and these cards are good, not really for points because you're earning one simple currency. And as much as I love Delta, Delta miles just keep going down in value because every month they're increasing the amount of miles you need to go anywhere. But they do have really valuable perks. So I have co brand cards, but they're not my workhorse cards that I'm spending most on every day. You know, the free checked bags, the Loungex, perks like that can absolutely make sense on spending on those Delta cards. But in the book I teach people the overall Economics. And you should understand as a consumer, there's an opportunity cost. So some Delta flyers may say to me, Brian, I understand I could be earning way more valuable Chase points, but by spending on a Delta card, I'm able to just barely get diamond status. And that diamond opens up $10,000 a year in value because I get to use those upgrades, you know, to upgrade to Europe or Tahiti, which is fine. But what I want everyone to do is there's no one size fits all answer. And I want people to understand the value of the perks they're getting and understand that if you're going to get perks from a hotel credit card, just make sure that they outweigh the value of the points you could have had by using much better cards for points earning. And in general, you should probably have a couple different credit cards. I know people, this is where people start to get uncomfortable. I have 28 credit cards and a near perfect over 800 credit score. And this is the beauty of this game. And the US is the global epicenter for points and credit cards. This is what I want to let people know that we are living. If you talk to any of your friends in any other countries, they are jealous because they only have a handful of points cards. And in the US we've got probably 25amazing credit cards. And the joy of it is you can get signup bonuses for a credit card that are worth well over $1,000, especially if you're married. We call this two player mode. Don't just have one person getting a credit card, but the biggest thing is your credit score goes up. And I talk about this a lot in the book, and this is the joy of the points game is when you play this smartly and you have to pay your credit cards off in full every month to avoid the interest. If you're paying interest on your cards, you're losing at the points game. But if you know how to budget your money, you put point, you know, purchase on a credit card, you get the points, you pay it off, you avoid the interest. In fico, the number two factors of your credit score, paying your bills on time. So just make sure you pay them on time, which, and your available credit to debt ratio, this is your utilization score. So the more credit cards you have open, the more available credit you have and you're not using it because you're being very responsible and paying it off in full, your score goes up. So this is the joy of the points game for consumers, especially consumers who in this time of inflation were finding it hard to make ends meet to do that family trip. You can get credit cards, get the huge signup bonus, then start earning points on category bonuses because a lot of these credit cards will get 4x here and your credit score goes up. So when you want to get a mortgage, your actual mortgage rates go down. So I have this saying like winning at travel, winning at points is winning at life because I firmly believe it engages you in our financial system. It gives you that mentality of understanding how the system works and how to get your fair share out of it.
- [17:25]
LinkedIn Advertiser
Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void? Well, with LinkedIn ads you can know you're reaching the right decision makers. You can even target buyers by job title, industry, company seniority skills. Wait, did I say job title yet? Get started today and see how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get started at LinkedIn.com results terms and conditions apply.
- [17:56]
Hannah Berner
Hi guys, it's Hannah from Giggly Squad with some around the corner. I wanted to tell you guys how I'm staying comfy and stylish. Lululemon is my secret weapon. There are plenty of copycats out there, but nothing compares to the Lululemon fabrics and fit. I've literally had my pair of Lululemon leggings since college and I'm out of college. I know I don't look it, but I am. The quality is next level. I especially love the Lululemon Align collection. It's made with this weightless buttery soft nulu fabric that feels like next to nothing. It's so soft. Whether you're in aligned pants, shorts, a bra, tank, skirt, a dress, you get non stop flexibility in every direction so you can stretch the summer limits align. Even wicks, sweat and as a sweaty girl. I love this. You know it's going to be my best friend when I play tennis this summer. Shop the collection online@lululemon.com or your nearest Lululemon store.
- [18:51]
Farah Pets Advertiser
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- [19:24]
Zibby Owens
Is there an actual points game? Is there a board game or a computer?
- [19:29]
Brian Kelly
There should be.
- [19:30]
Zibby Owens
Why is there not?
- [19:31]
Brian Kelly
Yeah, well because the game itself is the game, you know, like people it is, you know, just understanding but the.
- [19:38]
Zibby Owens
Game that you are playing is at a level that like I'm like I'm following, I'm following, you know and I. What if there was just a game.
- [19:47]
Brian Kelly
That was like that's good to just to get people used to it like a monopoly of points. That, that's, that's a good idea. That's as you know writing, writing and promoting a book is a full time job. So once this is fully done then I'm gonna, I'm gonna create the game. But it's, this is a game like I joke that this is like cross. Some people have crosswords and I mean I love the New York Times games every morning. That's my ritual to do my. But the beauty of the points game is your prize isn't just like bragging to your family friend group on text that you got wordle in three or two. The winning at the points game is saying I'm going to Florence and it was $29 in business class. And that's what I just tell people is that endorphin rush you get when you finally crack it. You know the code and it's not always just first class trips to Italy. I want everyone to understand points are an insurance policy when you have a bunch of points. Because one of the best things that come out of the Pand is that the airlines now let you, all the major US Airlines, you can cancel your points reservations up until departure for free and you get all your points back. So follow me here. You're at the airport, you're flying an airline and all of a sudden you're delayed, delayed, delayed. I talk about, I have a whole chapter on when things go wrong. I want people to think when you have points and a big points currency and you've really got to get to Salt Lake to see family and you know there's a flight on another carrier. What I do is I instantly will just check to see what other flights on other carriers later that day and I book it just so I have peace of mind that I'm getting to Salt Lake today because I need to be at that event. If your flight goes out on time, you can just click one button in the app, you cancel and get your points and miles Back. But this is why people expect the airlines to take care of you. And you're going to wait in an hour long line, you're going to get a surly agent who's like, no, you can fly standby tomorrow. And you're like, no, no, no, that's not how it's going to work. You know, like. But instead of fighting with that agent, you have to become your own best advocate. And when you have points and when you're on a family trip in Europe and you get a call that a family member's sick and you need to come back to the US if you call the airline on a paid ticket, they're going to fleece you, they're going to charge you $5,000 a ticket to get that last minute trip. But what people don't know is that airlines are also releasing tons of first class award tickets at the lowest levels. Last minute procrastinating, last minute bookings are some of the best times to use points to get home. And so if you ever have to come home or you want to come home early, you really miss your kids, you call the airline to change your ticket and they're like, it's going to be $6,000 a person. You're like, okay, well, I don't really want to get home that much. But when you use points, you go on the app and you'll say 60,000 points to fly Swiss Air Business class. Done points. And when you get this world, it'll change your mentality and kind of give you more confidence in traveling because the feeling of without breaking the bank or spending a fortune, I can get anywhere I need in the world or fly my family members here on a minute's notice without it. Throwing my budget for the year out of whack is pretty incredible.
- [22:50]
Zibby Owens
I'm just always afraid that if I spend them, there'll be a time where I really need them later.
- [22:55]
Brian Kelly
Yeah. So that's a part of our points hoarding epidemic. And I'm sure there are some points hoarders here. Yeah, I can see you. Look, I get that it feels good to see these big balances, but there is a downside to that FOMO of a later deal. Because in general, as I mentioned, these frequent flyer programs I want everyone to understand airlines these days are essentially loyalty programs that have some planes that fly. And airlines make way more money printing these frequent flyer miles and selling them to banks than they do actually flying planes. Almost every airline in America would be unprofitable if it were not for their loyalty. And Their credit card program, Delta leads the pack. I mean, 1% of total US GDP goes on a Delta AMEX card. But what does that mean? That means every single day billions of new Delta miles are being printed by everyone using their credit cards. Delta doesn't have that many more planes. They actually can't get enough planes. So the capacity on flights is staying the same. But so many more miles are being. Since the start of this podcast, billions more miles. So how does Delta. And it's a brilliant business model. Delta can click a computer and say, okay, well that flight from LA to JFK, that used to be 40,000 miles, it's now 50. So that overnight there are what called devaluations where the airlines just keep increasing the amount. So for all of you who are holding points for a future date, just understand this would be like putting your retirement funds in a checking account. You would lose all day, every day to inflation if you did that. So by just letting your miles sit there in accounts that don't earn interest and that are being devalued every day, you're doing yourself a disservice. So that's not to say go out and just, you know, burn them on gift cards or something, but put them to use. Take the money off the table today, even if it's for domestic tickets for your kids or whatever. Instead of spending this 600 bucks or whatever, just take that money today. Think about that money saved. You could put it in investment account but it is a losing proposition over time to save them for an unknown future use.
- [25:08]
Zibby Owens
Why are you not like the same CEO of United?
- [25:15]
Brian Kelly
That would be no fun. I much prefer people are always like, why do you want to become a pilot? I'm like, no, I like drinking champagne in the lie flat bed. I couldn't drink champagne and enjoy myself. I love working for consumers and I have the best job in the world. I truly, when I get to walk through the airport and people come up to me and they're eyes light up because I'm teaching people how to get value that's in front of them today. And there's no greater joy when it clicks with people. And that's why I wrote this book, you know, the points guy started 15 years ago actually this week. And you know, we have so many blog posts over time and it's really confusing. So to me this book is like the on ramp for everyday people. Like you can't have an excuse. I made it pretty simple. It can still get a little complex in the book. But what I tell you about this, like with anything financial, you can't just Google, what's the best mortgage for me right now. Just give it to me. I don't want to do any research. Right. Like we all have to do a little bit of, you know, taking time to understand these systems and how to get the most out of us. There is no best one mortgage for everyone because it depends on where you live and your credit and that's the same for the points world. But once you get it, and then once you start flying, and I will warn everyone listening, the points will allow you to start flying business class when you might not otherwise be able to afford it. But I will warn you now, once you start turning left on a plane, it is very hard to go back. So if you fly economy today and you're like this, I'm fine with it. Stay there.
- [26:53]
Zibby Owens
Yeah, for us.
- [26:56]
Brian Kelly
But yeah, so I love being in this in between of being able to help consumers navigate this crazy, constantly changing space. And yeah, no, I wouldn't want to work for an airline.
- [27:11]
Zibby Owens
Okay, great. All right. You keep doing you.
- [27:15]
Hannah Berner
Brian.
- [27:15]
Zibby Owens
Thank you so much. Thank you for all you do to help all the rest of us live better lives.
- [27:19]
Brian Kelly
Thank you so much for having me.
- [27:21]
Zibby Owens
Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have time to read books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram, Ibby Owens and Spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.
- [27:43]
Hannah Berner
Hi guys, it's Hannah from Giggly Squad. With summer around the corner, I wanted to tell you guys how I'm staying comfy and stylish. Lululemon is my secret weapon. There are plenty of copycats out there, but nothing compares to the Lululemon fabrics and fit. I've literally had my pair of Lululemon leggings since college and I'm out of college. I know I don't look it, but I am. The quality is next level. I especially love the Lululemon Align collection. It's made with this weightless, buttery, soft nulu fabric that feels like next to nothing. It's so soft. Whether you're in align pants, shorts, a bra, tank, skirt, a dress, you get non stop in every direction so you can stretch the summer limits. Align even wick sweat and as a sweaty girl. I love this. You know it's going to be my best friend when I play tennis this summer. Shop the Aligned collection online@lululemon.com or your nearest Lululemon store.
- [28:38]
Farah Pets Advertiser
You were made for going the extra mile for your pet, and Farah Pets was made to do the same. Farah Pets supplements are vet created with innovative ingredients that combine Eastern and Western therapies so your pet can thrive. After all, you would do anything to help your pet feel their best. And so would we. Visit farahpets.com pod to get 20% off today. That's F-E-R-A pets.com P O D Farah Pets we were made for this. Every idea starts with a problem. Warby Parker's was simple. Glasses are too expensive, so they set out to change that. By designing glasses in house and selling directly to customers, they're able to offer prescription eyewear that's expertly crafted and unexpectedly affordable. Warby Parker glasses are made from premium materials like impact resistant polycarbonate and custom acetate, and they start at just $95, including prescription lenses. Get glasses made from the good stuff. Stop by a Warby Parker store near you.
- [29:40]
Zibby Owens
Clips from the Totally Booked Live series are now up on Instagram. Totally Booked with Zivi. Check it out.