Totally Booked with Zibby: "Train Dreams" – Clint Bentley, Joel Edgerton, & Teddy Schwarzman

Date: December 15, 2025
Host: Zibby Owens
Guests: Clint Bentley (director/co-writer), Joel Edgerton (lead actor), Teddy Schwarzman (producer)

Episode Overview

In this special episode, Zibby Owens presents a conversation—moderated by her brother, producer Teddy Schwarzman—about the critically acclaimed film adaptation of Dennis Johnson’s novella Train Dreams. The discussion features director/co-writer Clint Bentley and lead actor Joel Edgerton, focusing on the creative journey of adapting and making the film, the allure of ordinary lives in storytelling, and the unique artistic challenges of bringing such a subtle, expansive literary work to screen.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Genesis of the Adaptation

How Did the Project Start?

• Clint Bentley shares his early connection to Dennis Johnson's novella, describing it as a "strange, beautiful little book" that lingered with him for years. While he had read all of Johnson’s work, adapting Train Dreams did not initially occur to him due to its unconventional structure—116 pages spanning 85 years, told in a fragmented, stream-of-consciousness style.

  • “It’s just such a strange, beautiful little book. But it also, like, stuck to me. And over the years, I would always think about it.” (09:17)

• The opportunity arose post-Jockey when producers approached Bentley about the adaptation. He felt a combination of responsibility to honor the source and "freedom… to be true to the spirit of the book and then… do what needed to be done to put it into a new medium.” (09:17)

What Drew Them to ‘Train Dreams’?

• Joel Edgerton was gifted the novella after directing another adaptation (Boy Erased) and was immediately captivated by its meditation on an ordinary life.

  • “When someone gives you a book, you know, it’s different from walking into a bookstore. It feels like the person knows you and maybe they think that this book might mean something to you. And it did.” (14:20)

• Edgerton even tried to acquire adaptation rights years beforehand and was “weirdly” offered the lead role four years later, deepening his emotional connection to the story.

Thematic Resonance: Ordinary Lives on Screen

Finding the Profound in the Everyday

• All three guests emphasize the film's celebration of “the dignity and the majesty of a simple life.”

  • “We don’t often see that in cinema. In cinema, we often are looking to view the life, fictional or true, of somebody who did something amazing, who saved something, who invented something, who stands on a higher shelf than most of us…” (15:44)

• The film, like the book, depicts an “intimate slice of life,” portraying a man whose achievements are not recorded in history but whose existence is nonetheless meaningful.

Universal & Personal Connections

• The discussion repeatedly returns to how the story becomes different things for different people—about family, work, grief, loss, or resilience—depending on the viewer’s perspective and life experience.

  • “It can become quite a personal thing for you about any number of things, about the environment, about life and work and family and grief and all these things…almost all of the things that Robert goes through, a person with a long life will have experienced.” (15:44)

• Edgerton reflects on “imposter syndrome” and how everyone, even those seen as extraordinary, relate to feeling ordinary.

  • "All of us are extraordinary…it levels everybody, CEOs, kings, you know, masters down to everybody that lives below the ground floor in the spectrum of social life.” (21:16)

Adapting the Unadaptable: Literary Structure & Writing Process

Adapting an Episodic, Non-Linear Novella

• Clint Bentley describes the challenge of converting the book’s loose, sweeping chronology into a movie structure.

  • “It encompasses 85 years in a person’s life…stream of consciousness, it’s all over the place.” (09:17)

• The adaptation process included extensive outlining and dividing scenes between writing partners, then swapping and refining.

  • “We do a lot of outlining since it’s two of us…then we take it in chunks. One person will take these three scenes, I’ll take these two scenes, and then we’ll swap them…” (29:58)

• Bentley’s mentor’s advice: “Don’t do that. This book is about life. Like, that’s the magic of it, is that it is about everything…if you try and whittle it down to one thing, it’s gonna ruin it…” (31:23)

Maintaining the Book’s Ambiguity

• The team deliberately avoided reducing the story to a single theme, wanting to preserve the novella’s “blank canvas aspect…for people to reach in.” (33:11)

Directing & Cinematic Choices

Visual Approach: Aspect Ratio and Natural Light

• Bentley chose to shoot in a rare 3:2 aspect ratio, creating a “window” effect, and used almost entirely natural lighting (“magic hour”), sacrifices made for both artistic and budgetary reasons.

  • “You were actually giving us a window…that required our focus and drew us in.” (38:13)

  • “We would start by shooting inside the cabin when it was brighter out and the light wasn’t as good…and then when it got like 4:35, and you’ve got that last, like, two hours of the day, we just shoot as much as we could in the magic hour and into blue hour…” (43:34)

• Shooting at such narrow time frames required adaptability from cast and crew, with actors often learning new scenes on the fly due to changes in weather conditions.

Shooting on a Shoestring

• The film was made for a fraction of the “normal” budget, forcing creative efficiency and a focus on capturing authenticity in every frame.

  • "We’re trying to make a $25 million movie for much less, and we’re trying to make this epic in miniature.” (41:20)

Ensemble and Performance

On Acting and Collaboration

• Joel Edgerton describes acting not as fun, but as “very pleasurable”—an escape, a puzzle, and a collaborative dance with the ensemble:

  • “It’s a chance to go somewhere else for a short time…when you get to be in a scene with someone like William H. Macy, with Felicity Jones…It only becomes a living, breathing thing if the writing is great and the filmmaking as a community is…at the top of their game.” (45:45-48:14)

Building the Cast

• The combination of Bentley’s directorial vision and Edgerton’s talent drew a strong ensemble (Felicity Jones, Kerry Condon, William H. Macy), and a sense of camaraderie despite the serious subject matter.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Creative Responsibility

• Clint Bentley:

  "I felt a ton of responsibility to it out of love for the material and out of love for the author, and did not want to do a bad version of not only this book, but any of Dennis Johnson’s books.” (09:17)

On the Majestic Ordinary

• Joel Edgerton:

  “The celebration of a normal, otherwise ordinary person and the dignity and the majesty of a simple life, to me, was really extraordinary. And we don’t often see that in cinema.” (15:44)

On Adaptation Structure

• Clint Bentley:

  “This book is about life…if you try and whittle it down to like one thing, it’s gonna ruin it and you’re gonna lose the magic of it.” (31:39)

On Artistic Risk

• Teddy Schwarzman (on aspect ratio):

  “You were giving us a window into this character and into this world that required our focus and drew us in…” (38:13)

On Performing with Ensemble

• Joel Edgerton:

  “It only becomes a living, breathing thing if the writing is great and the filmmaking as a community is…at the top of their game…between action and cut, there is nothing more pleasurable.” (47:00)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [07:10] Teddy Schwarzman introduces the purpose: a real-time look at adaptation as a creative case study for readers and writers.
• [09:17] Clint Bentley discusses discovering Train Dreams and responsibility in adapting it.
• [11:41] Why adapt Train Dreams? What does it offer the world?
• [14:20] Joel Edgerton recounts being gifted the novella and his personal investment in the story.
• [15:44] Edgerton on the film’s celebration of ordinary life.
• [21:16] Edgerton connects Robert Grineer’s story to universal feelings of ordinariness.
• [29:58] Bentley outlines the adaptation process—finding the plot's shape, writing collaboration.
• [31:39] Bentley's mentor’s advice: the book’s magic is that “it is about everything.”
• [33:11] Edgerton on preserving the story’s ambiguity; letting viewers find their own meaning.
• [38:13] Unique cinematic choices—aspect ratio and all-natural light.
• [43:34] Practical filmmaking: shooting with natural light, magic hour logistics.
• [45:45] Edgerton on ensemble acting and the joy in performance.
• [48:14] Wrap-up: gratitude for viewers and the importance of sharing stories like Train Dreams.

Conclusion

This intimate and insightful conversation uncovers both the artistic reverence and fearless innovation behind Train Dreams. The team’s dedication to authenticity—whether in adapting a nuanced novella, shooting for magic hour, or honoring the richness of ‘ordinary’ lives—shows the passion required to transform subtle literature into powerful cinema. The episode stands out as a case study in adaptation, collaborative process, and why stories of “ordinary” people matter deeply.

“Do not disregard anyone, whatever their shape, color, gender, size, origin. Everyone has a great story inside of their life…”
—Joel Edgerton, [21:16]