Totally Booked with Zibby

Episode: Confronting High-Functioning Depression with Rachel Tzvia Back
Air Date: February 23, 2026
Guest: Rachel Tzvia Back, author of The Dark Robed Mother
Host: Zibby Owens

Episode Overview

In this deeply moving episode, Zibby Owens sits down with poet, translator, and professor Rachel Tzvia Back to discuss her memoir The Dark Robed Mother. The conversation explores the realities of living with high-functioning depression, the nuances of grief and loss, the intergenerational impact on families, and the power of literature to create connection and understanding. Rachel shares both the intellectual and personal roots of her memoir, highlights the importance of giving language to underrepresented experiences, and offers a candid look at mothering, partnership, and enduring sibling loss.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

The Genesis and Meaning of The Dark Robed Mother

• Rachel explains the title's origin: drawn from the ancient Hymn to Demeter — Demeter, the goddess who loses her daughter annually to the underworld.

  "The title, the Dark Robed Mother, is one of the epithets that is given to Demeter in the Ancient Hymn to Demeter... it's the story of Demeter's grief, the mother, which is a big story. But there's this girl who is taken into the underworld, Persephone... What has drawn her? What has pulled her down there? Why is she living in darkness?" (04:01)

• Rachel describes how these myths revealed new perspectives on darkness, depression, and the stories that are left untold—particularly those of the ones suffering in silence.

High-Functioning Depression: Personal and Literary Context

• Rachel’s depression begins postpartum:

  "I descended into darkness about two months after the birth of my first child. I didn't understand what was happening... I was suffering in very serious ways." (05:54)

• She describes the experience of being functional while profoundly unwell, and the dangerous invisibility of high-functioning depression:

  "...very confusing to everybody and can be overlooked in dangerous ways. And it's terrible for the people living in close proximity to it, and it's terrible for the person who is suffering." (09:02)

• Writing as salvation and representation:

  "...I write the book we want to read." (09:01)
  "I knew I wanted to give my children representation and I knew I couldn't tell their story for them..." (12:19)

Family Dynamics: Partnership and Motherhood

• On the impact of depression on marriage:

  "And then when you went to that therapy session and he asked... how he felt about you now, and he said, 'I'm just so disappointed.'... It makes it feel like there was something you could do about it." (09:57)
  "It was a powerful moment, but it was also a good moment because he needed to be able to say that. And it's true. And it's okay... And then I fell apart and darkness descended upon me... And poor Yanni had to live with that." (10:30–11:51)

• Interviewing her children for the memoir:

  "This was not a dialogue... This was theirs. And I think it was a gift for them... It was a wonderful, wonderful opportunity for them and for me." (12:19–16:09)
  "If people can take away from this book, like, this is something you can do. I think that we think about interviewing our parents as they get old... Well, interview your children. I love that." (16:09)

Grief as a Distinct and Unending State

• The loss of her sister Adina:

  "Adina was my soulmate, and her early death is unacceptable... there's a lot of confusion about what is depression and what is grief. And how do the two... How are the two similar? How are the two different?" (20:23)
  "There are griefs which are legitimate... Nobody talks about sibling loss. And for some of us, that's the center of our being, and how can it not be acknowledged?" (21:30)

• Disenfranchised grief:

  "The notion of what is called disenfranchised grief, that there are griefs which are legitimate... Nobody talks about sibling loss." (21:30)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the fusion of metaphor and lived experience:

  "At first, it feels like I'm standing in a shadow, and I can't seem to step outside of it. I can see that there is light to the left and the right of me, but not where I stand... It has seeped under the door and into my body."
  — Rachel Tzvia Back, read by Zibby Owens (25:26)

• A mourner’s secret:

  "Everything in me refuses this unacceptable reality. I will continue to refuse Idina's death for the rest of my life, which should have been intertwined with the rest of her life... I have to say my sister is dead, but I don't have to accept it." (25:42–25:59)

• On stigma and the need for honest representation:

  "There is still stigma about depression. It has to be acknowledged. You know, it's not what it was when I first descended in 1991. It's different. I know it's different... but there is still stigma." (26:36)
  "People keep on saying to me, 'You're so brave.'... if I were to write a book about some other illness, would you say that?" (27:28–27:32)

• On the universal reach of memoir:

  "The first time I read William Styron's Darkness Visible... I saw myself in his slender volume. And I, for a moment, was not alone. And that's a great gift that he gave me... and now I'm trying to give back." (28:49–29:49)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:18] — Rachel on the meaning of the book’s title and Demeter’s myth
• [05:22] — Zibby summarizes Rachel’s high-functioning depression and motherhood journey
• [09:36] — Discussion about impact of depression on marriage and Rachel's husband’s perspective
• [12:19] — The process and emotional complexity of interviewing her children
• [19:14] — On the loss of Rachel’s sister Adina and the unique devastation of sibling loss
• [21:30] — Disenfranchised grief and society’s failure to honor certain losses
• [25:26] — Zibby reads favorite, poetic passages from Rachel’s memoir
• [26:24] — What Rachel hopes readers take away; addressing stigma
• [28:49] — The vital power of literary representation and connection

Takeaways and Closing Thoughts

• The Dark Robed Mother provides a rare, multidimensional look at high-functioning depression, pushing against the tendency to overlook those suffering in silence.
• Rachel’s willingness to include her family's perspectives, particularly her children’s, adds layers of honesty, visibility, and hope.
• Grief, especially sibling loss, remains insufficiently recognized in culture; Rachel’s articulation insists upon its legitimacy and the lifelong nature of certain losses.
• The memoir and this conversation serve as testimony to the necessity of naming suffering, of reading and writing as lifelines, and the ongoing need to reduce mental health stigma.

Final Reflections

• As Zibby summarizes:

  "It's not just high functioning depression. It's really severe... And how you can take something that could feel hopeless and turn it into something that you learn to live with and the bad and the good and all of that. And how isn't that really what life is, this mixed bag of what we get and how we deal." (30:11)

• Rachel’s response:

  "Thank you. This was lovely. I feel very, very fortunate to have met you and to be in conversation with you." (30:54)

Find The Dark Robed Mother published by Wesleyan University Press, available at the publisher or on Amazon.

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