David I. Sandberg M.D., BRAIN AND HEART: The Triumphs and Struggles of a Pediatric Neurosurgeon

Summary

Totally Booked with Zibby – Episode Featuring Dr. David I. Sandberg, M.D.: "Brain and Heart: The Triumphs and Struggles of a Pediatric Neurosurgeon"

Release Date: July 22, 2025

In this compelling episode of Totally Booked with Zibby, host Zibby Owens engages in an insightful conversation with Dr. David I. Sandberg, a renowned pediatric neurosurgeon and author of the memoir "Brain and Heart: The Triumphs and Struggles of a Pediatric Neurosurgeon." Joined by a special guest host, Miriam Padberg Owens, Zibby delves deep into Dr. Sandberg's professional journey, the motivations behind his book, and his personal experiences balancing a demanding career with family life.

About Dr. David I. Sandberg

Dr. Sandberg serves as the Director of Pediatric Neurosurgery at the McGovern Medical School, University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston (UT Health). With over two decades of experience, his expertise spans pediatric brain tumors, minimally invasive endoscopic approaches, hydrocephalus, arteriovenous malformations, congenital spinal anomalies, and craniofacial anomalies. A Harvard University alumnus, he earned his medical degree from the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine and has been instrumental in pioneering novel treatment approaches for pediatric brain tumors.

Motivation Behind Writing the Book

Dr. Sandberg revealed that his foray into writing was driven by a desire to document the extraordinary and often heart-wrenching stories he encounters daily.

“I started writing down stories, little tidbits of stories because the stories we see are crazy and memorable. I want families to know what I'm actually thinking as I have these conversations.”
— Dr. Sandberg [04:53]

He aimed to provide transparency and insight not only for families of his patients but also for aspiring medical professionals contemplating a career in neurosurgery.

Training and Communication in Medicine

A significant theme in the conversation was the lack of formal training in patient communication during medical education. Dr. Sandberg emphasized the importance of mentorship and observational learning in developing effective communication skills.

“I received absolutely none [of the training], and when I have these difficult conversations, I bring along the most junior person on our team to learn by watching.”
— Dr. Sandberg [06:24]

He advocates for a personalized approach, encouraging young doctors to develop their own communication styles by learning from experienced mentors.

Work-Life Balance and Medical Regulations

Discussing the evolution of medical training, Dr. Sandberg touched upon the introduction of work-hour restrictions aimed at reducing physician fatigue. However, he pointed out that these regulations inadvertently increased the risk of medical errors due to fragmented communication during handovers.

“The more handoffs there are... the more opportunities for miscommunication, which can lead to disaster.”
— Dr. Sandberg [08:06]

He believes that fostering a sense of ownership and responsibility towards patients is crucial, even amidst regulatory changes.

International Surgical Missions and Ethical Dilemmas

Dr. Sandberg shared his experiences from medical missions in countries like Haiti, where limited resources necessitate difficult decisions about which patients receive surgery.

“We basically had to play God and choose which patients would get surgery and which wouldn't. It is an awful feeling.”
— Dr. Sandberg [10:00]

He underscores the emotional toll of these decisions and the importance of team discussions to cope with the ethical burdens.

Personal Story: A Doctor and a Father

A poignant moment in the episode was Dr. Sandberg recounting a terrifying incident involving his two-year-old daughter, Dalia, who suffered a head injury.

“I was on the phone with Amy, and I could hear Dalia screaming in the background. We rushed her to the hospital, and fortunately, the CT scan was clear. It was a moment that allowed me to empathize deeply with my patients' families.”
— Dr. Sandberg [12:53]

This experience provided him with a personal perspective on the anxiety that families endure during medical crises.

Advocacy for Child Safety

The conversation also highlighted Dr. Sandberg's advocacy for child safety, particularly the use of helmets while biking.

“I've never seen one [a child wearing a helmet] who’s wearing a helmet have a serious head injury. It’s essential for parents to enforce helmet use to prevent life-changing brain injuries.”
— Dr. Sandberg [14:47]

He passionately discusses the increased risks associated with activities like biking and tackle football, emphasizing preventive measures to protect children.

Navigating Medical Malpractice

Dr. Sandberg opened up about his experience with a medical malpractice lawsuit, detailing the emotional and professional challenges it presented.

“After the trial and the verdict in our favor, I felt that we had all lost. I felt for the child and wished I could have done something differently.”
— Dr. Sandberg [27:44]

He critiques the current malpractice system, highlighting its impact on medical practice through defensive medicine and increased mistrust.

Personal Health and Career Transition

In a candid revelation, Dr. Sandberg shared his recent diagnosis of Parkinson's disease and his decision to retire from active surgery to prevent potential harm to patients.

“I decided to stop doing neurosurgery at the peak of my career because I don't want to harm a patient or even have the perception that I would.”
— Dr. Sandberg [21:26]

Looking ahead, he plans to pursue a master's in social work, aiming to address childhood poverty and support underserved children through his newfound focus.

Advice to Future Medical Professionals

Addressing the next generation, Dr. Sandberg offered heartfelt advice emphasizing empathy and patient-centered care.

“Remember, you're not operating on a knee or a hip or a shoulder. You're operating on a person... Treat them as though they're your family member.”
— Dr. Sandberg [28:04]

He encourages upcoming doctors to maintain compassion and prioritize the human aspect of medicine amidst technological advancements and systemic changes.

Conclusion

This episode of Totally Booked with Zibby provides a profound look into the life of a dedicated pediatric neurosurgeon who not only excels in his medical career but also seeks to make a broader impact through his writing and upcoming endeavors in social work. Dr. Sandberg's reflections offer valuable lessons on empathy, ethical decision-making, and the importance of balancing professional responsibilities with personal well-being.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. Sandberg: "I want families to know what I'm actually thinking as I have these conversations." [04:53]
• Dr. Sandberg: "The more handoffs there are... the more opportunities for miscommunication, which can lead to disaster." [08:06]
• Dr. Sandberg: "I decided to stop doing neurosurgery at the peak of my career because I don't want to harm a patient or even have the perception that I would." [21:26]
• Dr. Sandberg: "Remember, you're not operating on a knee or a hip or a shoulder. You're operating on a person... Treat them as though they're your family member." [28:04]

Connect with Dr. Sandberg: For more insights and to follow Dr. Sandberg's journey, visit zibbymedia.com and follow Zibby Owens on Instagram @zibbyowens.

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This summary excludes advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections to provide a focused overview of the podcast episode's meaningful discussions.

Transcript

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[Zibby Owens]

Hi, this is Zibby Owens and you're listening to Totally Booked with Zibby. Formerly Moms don't have Time to Read Books in my daily show, I interview today's latest best selling buzzies, underrated authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time As a bookstore owner, publisher, author, and obviously podcaster. I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to stay in the know, get insider insights and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zibbymedia.com and follow me on Instagram ibioens David I. Sandberg, MD, is the author of Brain and the Triumphs and Struggles of a pediatric neurosurgeon. Dr. Sandberg is a fellowship trained pediatric neurosurgeon who is the Director of pediatric neurosurgery at McGovern Medical School at the University of Texas Health Science center at Houston UT Health. He has a special clinic and research interest in pediatric brain tumors and specializes in minimally invasive endoscopic approaches to brain tumors, hydrocephalus and arachnoid cysts, as well as surgical management of arteriovenous malformations of the brain, congenital spinal anomalies, spasticity, and craniofacial anomalies. The recipient of numerous research grants, he has pioneered novel treatment approaches for pediatric brain tumors and he is principal investigator of several clinical trials. A graduate of Harvard University, Dr. Sandberg received his medical degree at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine.

Welcome David. Thank you so much for coming on Totally Booked with zivi. We are interviewing you. I have a special guest host today, my mother in law, Miriam Padberg Owens. Welcome to you. Thank you, thank you and welcome to David Sandberg.

[David Sandberg]

Thank you so much for having me on your podcast. I'm so honored.

[Zibby Owens]

Oh my gosh, I'm honored to even talk to you. You're such a hero. Seriously, hero. And as we were just saying so my husband Kyle's father, Bernard, is married to Miriam and she was in Haiti when you were there and met you in person as a huge fan and that's why we are doing this together. She happened to be reading your book when I was prepping for the podcast, so it's perfect.

[David Sandberg]

The Crazy Coincidence.

[Miriam Padberg Owens]

Crazy, crazy coincidence. Absolutely.

[Zibby Owens]

So Brain and the Triumphs and Struggles of a Pediatric Neurosurgeon. This book was absolutely gorgeous and instructive, emotional, inspiring. Why don't you tell listeners why did you decide to write this book and what is it really about?

[David Sandberg]

Thank you so much. So I've been a pediatric neurosurgeon for over 20 years and I never thought I was going to be an author. I started writing down stories, little tidbits of stories because the stories we see are crazy and memorable. And I'm like, I want to remember this. Maybe I'll write something about it one day. That's the first thing. And the other is, is I have a lot of difficult conversations with families, a lot of amazing conversations with families too. And during those conversations, I choose my words very carefully. But often there are other thoughts that go through my mind. And I've often thought to myself, it would be very interesting for families to know what I'm actually thinking as I have this conversation. And I thought that those conversations and what I'm thinking would be helpful not only to families of patients I've treated or patients I haven't treated, but who've had children or other relatives with serious medical problems, but also for young people who are considering a career in medicine or a career in neurosurgery or a career in any surgical specialty to see if this is a good fit for them, if this is right for them.

[Zibby Owens]

You wrote something so interesting in the book, which is after you described the many conversations you have with parents, your approach, the honesty, trying to just distill everything, not shroud it like some doctors. You said, despite your many, many years of training, no one ever taught you how to have that kind of conversation.

[David Sandberg]

Yeah, it's kind of crazy. I think these days in some medical schools, but not all, there is a little more training on interaction with patients. I received absolutely none. And actually when I have these difficult conversations with families, when appropriate, I always try to bring along the most junior person on our team, whether it be a junior resident, a medical student, to just sit there with me and I introduce them and I say, is it okay if they're here? And I have them listen to what I say, you know, when a child has died or when a child is his parents being given a terrible diagnosis and what I tell them afterwards, first of all, I check to make sure they're okay. But what I tell them afterwards is, listen. You may have some of these conversations in your career and what you should do is watch other people have them as much as possible and pick out the pieces you like from what I said, eliminate the stuff that I said that doesn't resonate and form your own style. And then I tell them my opinions on what should be included in those conversations.

[Zibby Owens]

You also wrote about even the training of, and then we'll get away from the medical training pieces of it. But I found them so interesting. You talked about how in your day, so to speak, you were 100 hours a week and non stop, and it would stop anything and always would. And that now there are all these guardrails set up for. For residents, you know, to protect their sanity and mental health. And obviously, your Navy SEAL training type life was. Was hard to bear, but that. Is there something lost in regulation of. Of the time and the work life? Can you talk about that a little bit?

[David Sandberg]

There's definitely something lost. I mean, I think the purpose of restricting work hours was the idea that you've got tired residents who are gonna make mistakes because they're tired. But what they didn't account for is that one of the major causes of mistakes in medicine, and there are so many, is poor communication. And the more handouts there are, the more times you're signing out to somebody else instead of staying on yourself, the more opportunities there are for miscommunication, which can lead to disaster. Not to mention the fact that there's a certain ownership that we should take of our patients as doctors. If I have a sick patient in the hospital and that family is depending on me, that's my patient. And it actually doesn't matter what else I have going on or what time I got to the hospital that morning or the day before. And that's an attitude that I think is really important to instill, because these are tough fields that we're in, and it takes a certain mindset, a certain passion for it. Not a shift worker's mentality like, oh, my shift is done. I'm going to leave. No matter what's going on in the hospital, There's a balance, obviously, and I may be a little crazy, but.

[Zibby Owens]

Not at all. You talked in the book, too, about how sometimes, as a doctor, you essentially have to play God in one of those situations. Miriam was there for. And you want to describe what he was saying in the book?

[Miriam Padberg Owens]

Well, in the book, you were. And this is something that I met you at that moment there, and I was so impressed with everything that you were doing for those children. I did not have the background information of all the other children you were unable to help and knowing what their destiny would be and having to say no and move on. And that is something that I'm not sure. How do you compartmentalize that? How do you move forward?

[David Sandberg]

Yeah, I mean, first of all, Miriam, I want to thank you for being kind to our team when we were down there. Kind to me, Bringing us food that we desperately needed to do surgery after surgery, after surgery. And you were just incredibly kind to us. And I will always remember you, and I'm grateful for that. In terms of you know, quote unquote, playing God. When you go to a lower middle income country and do these trips, and the poorer the country, the worst the situation. So in Haiti, there is such an overwhelming need, and there would be maybe 100 patients who would come to be evaluated. Some would come from faraway villages. And we could only stay for a certain number of days, and we could only do a certain number of surgeries, maybe 25 surgeries. A lot of the patients were not good candidates for surgery or they were too s. They had malaria, they had other illnesses that made surgery unsafe. Some children were excellent candidates, and we made sure that they were. Their surgeries were done. There were others that were kind of good in some ways, bad in some ways. Very complicated to explain how we would choose, but we basically had to play God and choose which patients would get surgery and which wouldn't. And it is an awful feeling. And I talked about it with my team all the time. We talked about it at meals, we talked about it beforehand, we talked about it during and after, and we all talked about how awful it was. But the alternative was not helping anybody. And so it's a feeling I've never gotten used to and never want to have.

[Miriam Padberg Owens]

I do want to also mention that this was for you and your team, your personal time off, and then for you to choose to go to countries like Haiti and Guatemala and everywhere else that you've been, makes you and your whole team, each one of you heroes.

[David Sandberg]

I don't know if we're heroes. We're passionate about what we do. I mean, in terms of time off, you know, during the residency years we were, I was working so many hours, I chose to. We used to get a one month block of vacation all at once and then just work for 11 months. It was just easiest for scheduling. They don't do that anymore. It's kind of stupid. But in any case, I went for one of those years. I went to Honduras for my month of vacation to do neurosurgery. It was a joy. It was an amazing experience. I wouldn't trade it for anything else. It's a privilege to be able to go down to these countries and help other people and teach other people how to do these surgeries so that they can do them when you're gone. And it's so rewarding. It's an incredible gift.

[Zibby Owens]

So you are married to a college friend of mine, Amy Scheffler, and I was delighted to see her picture in the book at your wedding. And the amazing story of the girl that you Helped. It was her and her sister were in your wedding and all of that. But you did share the story of when she was with your daughter Dalia, who fell off the bed and became a potential patient of yours. Can you just talk about the fear and how that moment affected you as a doctor and a dad?

[David Sandberg]

Yeah. I'm very lucky to have met your friend Amy and married her. She is the woman of my dreams and she's incredible.

[Zibby Owens]

Oh, that's so sweet.

[David Sandberg]

You know, I had a few moments I shared in the book where the tables were turned very briefly and I got a glimpse of what my patients go through. We take care of so many patients who have head and spine trauma, and it's traumatic not only for the patient, but for the family and the parents. You can only imagine very severe head traumas, minor everything in between. In this circumstance. I was at work. We were in Miami at the time. I was on the faculty at the University of Miami and working at Miami Children's Hospital. And I'll never forget the call from Amy when I could hear Dalia, my two year old daughter, screaming her head off in the background. She was like, you know, Dalia fell off the bed. We had a high bed. She hit her head on the post. It happened so fast. I turned my head for a second and she sprinted off the bed and fell. She was two years old and she has a big goose egg under her skin. I was like, bring her to the hospital right now. We brought her in and we got a CT scan and I was like, oh my God, my daughter is going to have a blood clot in her brain that needs to be removed. Like, I can't believe this. Who am I going to get to do the surgery? Is she going to be okay? And as it turns out, we got a CT scan and it was absolutely fine. There was nothing there and she was fine. But I. It was good for me as a doctor. I enabled. It enabled me to experience for two minutes what the anxiety is that my families go through.

[Miriam Padberg Owens]

Yeah. So originally I'm from Holland, and after reading this book, I literally want to go out and hand out helmets to everybody, all the Dutch people, because they are biking everywhere and no one wears a helmet. Not a child, not an adult. And it's shocking to me. It's absolutely shocking. How can that message be put out?

[David Sandberg]

Yeah, I've been a pediatric neurosurgeon for a long time. As I said, I have never seen. I've seen a lot of kids who are riding bicycles, who are hit by cars right Happens all the time.

[Miriam Padberg Owens]

Yeah.

[David Sandberg]

I've never seen one who's wearing a helmet have a serious head injury. I've seen some minor traumatic brain injuries with helmets, but I've seen so many children who have died who have had life changing, severe brain injuries when they're not wearing helmets. Parents tell me sometimes, you know, but he won't wear it, she won't wear it, wear them. And I was like, I'm like, you're the parent. Take away the bicycle. They can only ride the bicycle if they wear a helmet. It's that important.

[Miriam Padberg Owens]

And especially now with the electric bikes. Goes even faster, Correct?

[David Sandberg]

Yeah.

[Miriam Padberg Owens]

Okay.

[Zibby Owens]

And you also said that you wouldn't let your children play football. I have a son who plays tackle football and I'm embarrassed to tell you that, but now I'm rethinking my decision because you're like, this is the worst idea ever. Which of course I've heard a million times, but just say it in a new way.

[David Sandberg]

No, I mean, let's be honest here. There are some things that there's no controversy about. For head trauma, if you have a gun, you got to lock it up, right? There's no controversy about that. For, for neurosurgeons. With tackle football, if you get a bunch of neurosurgeons in a room, some of them would have no problem having their own children play tackle football, and others would feel strongly against. You know, it's, it's a judgment call for me personally. You know, I tell my own son who wants to play football and I don't let him. You're going to make a living during the week, not on Sundays. You're not going to be a professional football player. And the risks are what I've seen, I've seen, you know, some high cervical spinal cord injuries from tackling, and those patients can't walk, and they're never going to walk. And it's not that many of them, but it's enough. And the concussions and the chronic traumatic encephalopathy that you see in the professional athletes, and we see, we see long term effects in some of the high school athletes too. It hasn't been studied well enough. There's controversy surrounding it. And most people, most kids who play tackle football are fine. So. And it's a great sport and there's a lot of team building and, you know, it's a hard decision. I've made the decision for my son that I wouldn't let him play, but that's because I'm biased by all the Bad things that I've seen.

[Miriam Padberg Owens]

Mm. Yeah.

[Zibby Owens]

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[Zibby Owens]

So this is sort of a random question. Your sister is Sheryl Sandberg, obviously, who is so accomplished and doing so much, by the way, for the Jewish people, which is amazing. So that's wonderful.

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[Zibby Owens]

And you're obviously just so incredibly successful. What are the secrets? What did your parents do right, that raised you Two to be such kind, giving, and also brilliant people. Some genetics, obviously, but like, is there anything looking back, that you took from your parents and maybe you're using for your kids?

[David Sandberg]

My parents are amazing. They're wonderful parents. I don't think there's some magic formula. I'll tell you what they did. They were compared to other parents. I think they were on the stricter side when we were young and as we got older, they were among the most lenient. We didn't have curfews or things like that. I don't know if that matters in terms of the values they taught. Honesty, hard work, service to others. We were constantly being told how lucky we were. We were constantly being taught by their example of service in various ways. They were activists in the Soviet Jewry movement, helping Jews who were persecuted get out of the then Soviet Union. My dad took me with him on three medical missions to Jamaica, the Dominican Republic and Antigua. Those were eye opening for me in high school and college and solidified my desire to become a doctor. They're wonderful parents and wonderful people.

[Zibby Owens]

Amazing. All right. Just hoping for some hacks. Got to get my kids to turn out okay, really. And I understand. I don't know if this was public that Amy put in her email that you have your own health issue going on at the moment. Can you talk about that or not?

[David Sandberg]

I do. So I'm 53 years old. I'm at the peak of my career, and unfortunately, I've recently been diagnosed with Parkinson's disease. I started developing a tremor of my right hand some months ago. It was and still remains very mild and very intermittent. Hasn't affected me doing surgeries. But, you know, you see professional athletes who stay on the field too long and people think, oh, they were amazing, but they should have gotten out early while their skills were still at their peak. I decided that I wanted to be one of those athletes who got out early. Not that I'm an athlete, but I decided to stop doing neurosurgery at the peak of my career because I don't know what's going to happen and I don't want to. To harm a patient or even have the perception that I would even consider entering an operating room if I could possibly harm a patient. So I kind of shocked the world over the last few months, starting in January, and basically I stopped doing surgery cold turkey. I'm finishing my neurosurgical practice at the end of June, mostly saying goodbye to patients and families and making sure they're set up for care, wrapping up Research, studies. And yeah, that's where I am.

[Zibby Owens]

And so what are you going to do? And I'm so sorry that this is happening, by the way.

[David Sandberg]

No, you know, you know, you don't have to be sorry. Look, you know, it was, it was hard to come to that decision because my surgeries were going great and I love doing surgeries. It was hard telling my children, telling my parents, my sisters, my patients, their families, my colleagues. And I had to do that kind of all at once. So it was hard. But once I got through that, I have so much gratitude. Gratitude that this happened in my 50s, not my 30s or 40s. I've had a wonderful career. Gratitude for the thousands of children I've been able to help. Gratitude that my symptoms are relatively mild and hopefully I'm going to live a long time and do good things. So the things that I love most about my job, one of the surgeries, the other, the only thing that trumps that is the relationships with families. And I can still have that and I can still do good in the world. I've decided to go back to school and get a master's in social work. I'm going to be at Houston to get a master's in social work starting in August. And my goal is to do something related to childhood poverty, you know, work with homeless children or children in the foster care system. I haven't defined it perfectly. So that's, that's my plan.

[Zibby Owens]

Wow.

[Miriam Padberg Owens]

I told you. He's a hero.

[Zibby Owens]

I know. You feel like you need that? Do you feel like you, you feel like you need the degree to help? I feel like you could just like get out there. You've already been so helpful.

[David Sandberg]

It's kind of a stalling mechanism because I don't know exactly what I want to do yet.

[Zibby Owens]

Okay.

[David Sandberg]

You know, I'm kind of a one trick pony. I've been doing neurosurgery for 27 years. So what I know how to do well is neurosurgery. I want to learn ways to help people. I like learning. I'm a good student. So I want to go back to school and just kind of look around at different options and, and figure out what I want to do well.

[Zibby Owens]

Your classmates are really lucky that you are going to be in their class. That's all I can say. These like 22 year olds, can you imagine?

[David Sandberg]

Sure. I'll meet some amazing people.

[Zibby Owens]

Do you have other questions about the book?

[Miriam Padberg Owens]

How has writing this book influenced you and work? Because when I guess you're writing things down, you're seeing it from a different perspective. Has it changed anything for you?

[David Sandberg]

I mean, the biggest thing has been the timing, which is crazy. I never thought I was going to be retiring at the time I wrote this book, and it is a memoir. It's been a time of transition and definitely a time of reflection for me. Writing down the stories and writing down the things I've learned over my career. It's just made me more enthusiastic about teaching the next generation of people to do things the way I think they should be done. For example, surgical complications. Every surgeon has them, right? The best surgeons have complications. The question is how you handle them. And I think I've accumulated some wisdom over the years about how to handle them. So I share that in the book in great detail. That's how I would answer.

[Zibby Owens]

The trial was so interesting that you were during one time when something went wrong due to. Not your fault, obviously. And years later you were sued and you were encouraged by peers to settle, and you were like, I can't do that. That's admitting fault. And I was not at fault. And so you went to trial, which sounded incredibly stressful and is sort of a commentary on what is happening with all of these medical malpractice lawsuits. Like, what is the path going forward when at the drop of a hat, people are suing doctors? Like, how does a doctor continue to do all the great work with fear?

[David Sandberg]

Yeah, it's a major problem. You know, luckily I moved to Texas, and in Texas, there's tort reform, and it's actually a better environment for physicians. You know, it's very variable state to state. In New York, you know, you're in New York. In New York, there's. It's terrible for doctors and they're getting sued all the time. And I mean, I think there are mistakes that are made in medicine. And there is a role, I assume, for the medical malpractice system that we have, but there is a lot of defensive medicine practice as a result. Unnecessary tests that are ordered, which can have harm. Some things that are invasive, and it creates a climate of mistrust. Most, I don't. I don't know any doctors who do things that are egregious, like don't come see a patient who's deteriorating or don't do the very best they can. You know, there are always examples in the media and things like that. But most what I see are people doing the very best with the training that they've received that they can. But, you know, as I described in the book, after that Trial went to. After it went to trial and after the verdict was returned in our favor, I didn't have an overwhelming sense of victory or relief. I felt that we had all lost, you know, I felt bad for the child, you know, who had a surgical complication, who's going to have weakness of her hand, you know, for the rest of her life. And I wish I could have done something differently. I certainly did the best I could. It's a tough problem.

[Zibby Owens]

So one of my four kids is applying to college now, and he's pre med. He's going to, like, do a whole medical program this summer, and he wants to be an orthopedic surgeon. What do you say to the next generation of doctors and people in the medical industry with the rise of AI, with all of the new reforms and all of that, like, do you have hope for them? What's your advice?

[David Sandberg]

I mean, there are some people who are pessimistic about medicine. I think that it is such an honor to be a doctor. What I would say to your son, if he were my trainee, is I would say, you know, you might be fascinated by the surgeries that you're going to do. You're going to learn to do all these complex surgeries, replacing knees and hips and, you know, shoulders and doing all these amazing surgeries. Remember, you're not operating on a knee or a hip or a shoulder. You're operating on a person. And that person has a family who's in the waiting room, and they are scared to death about what's going on behind these closed doors in the operating room. And just treat them as though they're your family member and, you know, give them your love and your time and listen to them. That's what I would tell your son.

[Zibby Owens]

Thank you.

[Miriam Padberg Owens]

That's really nice.

[Zibby Owens]

Any last questions from you?

[Miriam Padberg Owens]

No.

[Zibby Owens]

No. David, this is. This has been such a joy. I'm such a huge fan of yours. I can't wait to see what you do to change the world. You've already affected so many people's lives, and I hope that this book and the messages really hit home and that the personal care that you show to patients and the respect with which you treat everyone is something that can be contagious and that can be taught. So thank you.

[David Sandberg]

Zibby, thank you so much for having me on your show. It's so nice to meet you. And, Miriam, it's so nice to see you again. What a wonderful surprise.

[Zibby Owens]

It is.

[Miriam Padberg Owens]

It is absolutely.

[Zibby Owens]

All right. Congratulations.

Thank you.

[David Sandberg]

Thank you very much.

[Zibby Owens]

Take care. Okay. Say hi to Amy. Okay, bye bye.

Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibi, formerly Moms don't have Time to Read Books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram Ibyo and Spread the Word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.

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[Miriam Padberg Owens]

It's Birch Lane's Black Friday in July sale, happening July 24th through 28th. Save up to 70% on timeless furniture and Decor. Shop classic style for joyful living@birch lane.com.

[David Sandberg]

There's a time and a plate for a filet of fish, but breakfast is for sausage biscuits.

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