Podcast Summary: Totally Booked with Zibby — Erin O. White, LIKE FAMILY: A Novel

Host: Zibby Owens
Guest: Erin O. White
Date: December 4, 2025
Episode Focus: The debut novel Like Family by Erin O. White

Episode Overview

In this engaging conversation, Zibby Owens sits down with Erin O. White, author of Like Family, to discuss the making of her acclaimed debut novel. The episode covers the intertwined stories in the book, themes of parenthood, queer domesticity, family secrets, navigating middle age, and the evolution of relationships. White also shares her journey as a writer, her approach to character development, and her experiences in crafting both memoir and fiction. The episode is rich with reflections on life, literature, and the honest messiness of being human.

Main Topics & Discussion Points

1. What Is Like Family About?

[04:01]

• Novel centers on three interconnected couples (two lesbian, one straight) living in upstate New York.
• Couples’ lives are intimately interwoven; the story follows their relationships and family dynamics.
• Highlights include richly drawn characters—Caroline, Ruth, Mike, and their children, especially Luca and Sita.

Quote:

“Like Family is about three couples, sort of interconnected families who live in upstate New York. [...] The three couples move sort of through the book, together and apart in their relationships and the way their families are intertwined.”
—Erin O. White [04:01]

2. Character Development & Emotional Insight

[03:12–08:52]

• Zibby admires the novel’s structure, likening each chapter to a short story with complete emotional arcs.
• Erin describes how she embeds her worldview and spiritual musings into characters—for example, Caroline’s belief that "the soul does not need a mate."
• Discussion of themes such as loneliness in children, the complexities of female friendship, and evolving romantic relationships in early middle age.

Memorable Quotes:

“You had a line in there, something like, 'There’s no pain like a child’s loneliness,' or something. Oh my God. That so got me.”
—Zibby Owens [05:23]

“She’s a person who would want to own something essential about herself for herself…even before I was a mother or wife, I sort of was giving the world my sort of physicalness.”
—Erin O. White on character Caroline [06:14]

3. Representation of Identity and Community

[07:49–10:56]

• Jewish identity is present without being central—a meaningful backdrop, especially for Ruth.
• White wanted to portray characters from diverse backgrounds and experiences in a natural, integrated way.
• Exploration of changing passion and desire as couples age, and how love and intimacy shift over time.

4. Parenting, Secrets, & Teenage Angst

[10:01–13:46]

• Sita’s storyline: She learns her true parentage early; her mom’s past affair comes into the light.
• Erin discusses the chaos and beauty of raising teenagers, the weight of parental mistakes, and the deep tenderness involved.
• Both Zibby and Erin share personal experiences with teenagers, emphasizing the universality and emotional intensity of that phase.

Quote:

“You love a teenager in a way that is just really powerful and all of it…their feelings are so big, but your feelings for them are really big, too.”
—Erin O. White [12:32]

5. Themes of Friendship, Social Comparison & Perfectionism

[13:44–15:46]

• White touches on the competitive, performative aspects of social media and Instagram culture, using a couple in the book as a foil.
• The conversation reflects on how social comparison and “perfectionism culture” persist beyond youth.

Notable Reference:

“Adulthood is just high school with money.”
—Paraphrasing Woody Allen, discussed by Erin [14:25]

6. Erin’s Writing Journey

[20:54–23:13]

• A lifelong reader, Erin initially pursued science and social justice before stumbling into writing through a community class.
• She earned an MFA, did nonfiction work, wrote a memoir (Given Up For You), then transitioned to fiction.
• Like Family was born from a desire to see a queer domestic novel in the tradition of classics by Sue Miller, Mary Gordon, and Laurie Colwin.

Quote:

“I really wanted to write a queer domestic novel…I didn’t know if it would work and I didn’t know if anyone would want it, but it did.”
—Erin O. White [23:00]

7. The Publishing Process

[23:21–24:36]

• Erin’s agent, Claudia Ballard, was instrumental; after revisions, the book sold quickly with interest from multiple editors.
• Whitney Frick at Dial Press became her editor, whom Erin describes as “one in a million."

8. Memoir & Writing From Life

[24:40–27:21]

• Erin’s memoir chronicles her Catholic conversion, social justice work, and coming out in her twenties.
• She finds memoir writing strenuous and revealing, noting the differences between fiction’s flexibility and memoir’s raw reality.
• She recently wrote an essay for The New York Times about giving up on cooking family dinners.

Quote:

“Writing about yourself, creating art from your personal life is really hard…in fiction…you can move things around. When it’s your life, you have to really dig in and make that meaning and really find the story.”
—Erin O. White [27:00]

9. Attachments to Characters & What’s Next

[27:27–28:06]

• Erin is sad to leave her characters but feels she ended their stories in a satisfying place.
• She’s working on a new novel centered around sisters.

10. Crafting Setting & Structure

[28:06–30:23]

• The novel’s setting—a pond and rural homes in upstate New York—is inspired by Erin’s years in western Massachusetts.
• She reflects on using natural and domestic spaces as thematic and emotional anchors throughout the story.

Quote:

“It’s a really fun part of writing to find those settings that you can really see so clearly in your head…and get them onto the page in different ways.”
—Erin O. White [29:13]

11. Life in Minneapolis & Final Reflections

[30:56–32:01]

• Erin currently lives in Minneapolis, does some editing and coaching, and praises the city’s vibrant writing community.
• Zibby expresses heartfelt enthusiasm for Erin’s work and future projects.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On character insight:
  “It’s so fun to muse inside other people’s heads…Nice to get out of my own head.”
  —Erin O. White [07:44]

• On parenthood:
  “Parenting teenagers, you kind of don’t always know what to do…because oftentimes you have made a mistake.”
  —Erin O. White [11:30]

• On letting characters go:
  “I feel like I got them to a great place and I just feel like they should just do what they want on their own.”
  —Erin O. White [27:34]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction to Erin and book praise: [02:31–03:55]
• Explaining the novel’s premise: [04:01–04:58]
• Themes of soul, identity, and character development: [05:23–07:36]
• Jewish identity and richer background details: [07:49–08:03]
• Relationships and evolving intimacy: [08:20–09:47]
• Parenting, secret, and teenage turmoil: [10:01–13:46]
• Social comparison and adulthood’s challenges: [13:44–15:46]
• Erin’s journey to writing: [20:54–23:13]
• Publishing process: [23:21–24:36]
• Memoir writing vs. fiction: [24:40–27:21]
• Saying goodbye to characters and new projects: [27:27–28:06]
• Setting’s role and symbolism: [28:06–30:23]
• Minneapolis writing community: [30:56–32:01]
• Closing affirmations: [31:40–32:01]

Tone and Takeaways

Zibby and Erin’s conversation is warm, insightful, and filled with mutual admiration. The episode is a must-listen for fans of literary fiction, those interested in the writing life, and anyone drawn to nuanced portrayals of family and identity. Listeners are left with both practical insights into writing and a deeper appreciation for the richness of everyday lives as depicted in contemporary fiction.

Final endorsement:

“You have a new huge fan in me. I really think—I mean it. I love how you write. I loved this book and your story, and I’m just going to be cheering you on as the book comes out and all the rest, so congratulations.”
—Zibby Owens [31:40]