B (4:16)

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

A (4:19)

It's my pleasure. Yes. I feel like it was so long ago when we first met thanks to Cori Ajme and you were like, I have this book coming and now like here it is. So exciting.

B (4:29)

I feel the exact same way. I cannot believe that we're almost a week away from pub and yeah, I remember meeting you that day and being like, one day we'll reconnect and like that day is here and it's wild. Yay.

A (4:44)

Oh my gosh, what a journey for you. Wait, so tell everybody what Sisters of Fortune is about and then a little bit about what inspired the book, how you got here, all the good stuff.

B (4:56)

So Sisters of Fortune is a sister story. It's about three young Syrian Jewish sisters who are growing up in Brooklyn. They're all kind of finding their way through dating and marriage, but ultimately it's a story about community and it's a story about traditionalism and modernism. And you know what we as women ultimately want for ourselves and the different paths that we take to get there.

A (5:25)

Well, it's really funny. I mean, you are a keen observer of human behavior and families and all the sort of mishigos of life. Like, it's funny. It's really funny. So, yeah, thank you.

B (5:42)

Thank you so much. I appreciate that. Yeah, I think I grew up around really funny people and people who are unintentionally funny a lot of the time. So, yeah, it's a treat for me. It was a treat for me to observe that growing up and I guess some of that made its way into the book. So I'm glad.

A (6:02)

I particularly appreciated the whole sort of storyline about dieting and weight and image and, you know, I come from a Jewish family and I, you know, I could hear my grandmother's voice and so much of this. Oh, my gosh. Do you mind if I read a couple quick sentences from the, from the book? Okay, you go. As she, as she hand saw the first slice, the mil. The mother in law tells us her new diet is working. She is down to 165 pounds as of last Thursday, which means she's no longer seeing the old doctor, A miracle worker before he was a liar and a crook. And eventually, as these things tend to go, an anti Semite. And then you go, you say 11 pounds lost since the proposal. That's one tenth of my total body weight in three months. But really it's probably more like 12 or 13 pounds given I usually weigh myself in my pajamas. Just a cotton tank and shorts, nothing heavy. But still. Plus if I got on the scale after I pooped, it'd probably be even less then each of us. Each of us women, my sisters, my mother and I walk around the house pretending like we're the only one not on a diet. Nina judges me. I judge our youngest sister, Lucy. And my mother tells us we look good the way we are and then is the first one to compliment us when a quarter of a pound is lost. All right, discuss.

B (7:22)

Okay, yeah, a few things. You know, obviously we are all super preoccupied with our weight and body image in this day and age. I think that for me it was always this duality between, you know, growing up and obviously the book is fiction and I'll probably say that 600 times during this conversation, but there was always this dichotomy between you're not eating enough, eat, eat, eat food. A lot of, we call it pushing, like a food pusher. You know, like you're sitting on the table and your grandmother or your mother is like watching you take every bite and you're not eating enough. And then it was the other side where it was, you know, you get older and when you are living in such a close, tight knit community, you're constantly comparing yourself to other women. Right. You know, as, as we all are. And then you start to become more aware of your own body and how you measure up to others. And then you throw dating into the mix and you throw competition into the mix and you have all these different elements that are confusing and often overwhelming for, you know, young women. And I don't actually think it ever goes away the older you get. So, you know, there was like this extreme preoccupation with weight, with body image, coupled with, you know, in the book, food is such a big deal and gathering around the table is such a big deal. And you know, you know, in terms of hosting and meals and recipes, diet and nutrition has had no part in that. So you are expected to eat and enjoy. And that's such a huge part of Syrian Jewish culture. You know, the food and the flavor and enjoying and not focusing on weight. And then at the same time you are preoccupied with body weight because you're constantly comparing yourself. So I always was fascinated by that dynamic and how those two things, you know, interplayed with one another.

A (9:41)

Yeah, I totally get that. Like, what, you're not having my famous chocolate roll?

B (9:45)

Yeah.

A (9:46)

I mean, the next day being like, oh, have you put on a few pounds? What do you think? I don't know. Have you lost weight? Have you gained weight? Yeah, constant, constant dialogue. Bodies as public territory. So, so to speak.

B (9:57)

Exactly. And then of course, like the chatter around, have you tried this diet? Have you tried that diet? There's always a new fad, there's always a new doctor in town, there's always a new meal plan. So yeah, I think that's something that we all unfortunately deal with.

A (10:14)

And even just the comparison between, among the sisters in general. Right. Trying to measure up, who has this, who's getting married, who has this relationship? What about this guy? Da, da, da. Like, what's wrong with me? What's right with her? How do you even deal with that? And do you have sisters, by the way? What's your whole situation?

B (10:32)

I do have sisters. I have, I am the oldest of three girls and I have an older brother above me. So we're three girls, one boy. And you know, I think it's funny because in promotion for this book and in just speaking to friends and family and, you know, people about the book, I've had so many women be like, I'm one of three girls, and I think I do have a brother. But I think there is this dynamic amongst three sisters in a family where you do feel compelled to set yourself apart in some way. So, you know, going off of the theme of comparison, we're constantly comparing ourselves to our siblings in general. And I have three kids of my own, and I see them as they're little now, but as they grow, I see them trying to carve out their own little niches for themselves, whether that's, oh, I like painting, but my brother likes sports, or I like magnetiles and my sister likes playing pretend. It's human nature to want to differentiate yourself from your siblings, whether that's to get more attention in one area or whatever the reasoning behind that is. And I think with sisters, again, you have that innate desire to differentiate yourself from your sisters. But then you, as the sisters in the book, come of age where they're dating, and whether they like it or not, and whether they want to admit it or not, they are competing with one another in this very small dating pool of eligible men. And, you know what happens when, you know, one of them maybe isn't getting what she wants out of that. And you look at your sister now, it seems to come so easy to her, and why not me? And you don't want to compare and you don't want to have resentment because, you know, ultimately you have this overriding bond and love for one another. But outside factors do come into play. And I think that's a dynamic that was always very interesting to me. And, you know, amongst, you know, I'll speak for myself. And with my own sisters, we're all very different. And from a. From a very young age, we all try to, you know, we. I don't want to say we put ourselves in our own little boxes, but we kind of did. You know, like, one of my sisters is a lawyer. The other one is a skin. A skin therapist. I'll say. I don't know. I have to ask her what the correct term is. I'm a writer. And so anyways, it's just funny to see how, you know, you try and you try and separate yourself from one another and play off your own strengths, but then you come together ultimately in the ways that matter.

A (13:40)

So I love that. Oh, that's so nice. For those listening who don't know exactly what the Syrian Jewish community is versus the Jewish community at large. Like what? Can you explain it a little bit?

B (13:53)

Sure. So the Syrian community is so, first of all, it's a Sephardic community. So our ancestors, way, way back, came from Spain. The Syrian community in Brooklyn is a huge and growing very dynamic community whose descendants mainly come from Aleppo and Damascus. But I will say that within the umbrella term of, you know, people say the Syrian community, but living in the Syrian community are many, many Jews from Egypt and Lebanon and Israel. So there's, you know, it's a broad umbrella, but we say Syrian because the majority of the community has come from Syria. And there were two waves of Jews who left Syria. So post 1948, the establishment of Israel life for Syria's Jews became imaginably very difficult, and they were no longer welcome there. There was restrictions on their behavior, on the way they practiced their Judaism, and so people started to flee. So the first wave, post 1948, people began to escape and ultimately settled in Brooklyn near. You know, a lot of people settled near Bay Parkway. So that was sort of the first iteration of the community here. And then the second wave, which was mainly from Damascus, not aleppo, happened around 1992 when President Assad gave a pardon for all of the remaining Jews to leave Syria. And by that point, the community here was already established and had yeshivas and synagogues and nonprofits who were able to really set up those refugees here. And that's a whole amazing story in and of itself. But the community. What's so unique about the Syrian community and why I think a lot of people are, you know, outside of it, are intrigued by it, is because it is an insular community that does play by its own rules. And that is, you know, mainly. We mainly associate and, you know, we live amongst each other. But unlike other Orthodox communities in Brooklyn, you know, that might come to mind, we do, you know, we do socialize outside of the community. We work outside of the community. So it's sort of like this one foot in, one foot out dynamic that is really interesting. But so many of our traditions and our recipes are very, very important and vital and very much alive today. And we've managed to really hold on to those traditions from Aleppo, from Damascus, and we mainly marry within the community. So, you know, we've managed to. In a time when, you know, a lot of Jewish communities, I think, are struggling a little bit to keep their people together, I think the Syrian community has managed to do that in spades. So does that answer your question?

A (17:07)

Yes, totally. I loved that. Thank you. That was great. No, I love it. It's good for people to get context. You know, people should understand. And anyway, so in terms of writing this book, when did you like, give me a quick up till now story of your life thing? You went to college for writing or you were a journalist? Like, tell me the whole thing.

B (17:31)

I went to college, I went to nyu. I thought I was going to be an environmental science lawyer. Did not think I was gonna. I always wrote my whole life. I never thought that it would be a viable career path, to be completely honest. But I always adored books, adored writing. I would write chapters of stories in my book and my room. Growing up, did not go to college for writing, but I went to Gallatin, which is like a small individualized program at NYU that really allowed me to like explore. And after I graduated, I took a bunch of like satire, comedy, film classes at nyu and I said I really just wanted to make, you know, to create stories in one capacity or another. And then after nyu, I actually got married in my junior year of college. I graduated college in three years, got engaged my junior year, got married at 21, and started this blog as a 21 year old married, living in New York about being this. I called it an accidental housewife. And by that point I was just like writing these stories every day, funny little anecdotes about this place that I found myself in that I did not really think I would be in at 21. And I got my first job through that blog, working at Man Repeller, which I don't know how much of your audience is familiar with it, but for me it was like a dream. First job, I was writing for Leandro Medine, who started the Man Repeller blog about women who defied, I guess, expectation through their clothing and did not dress for the male gaze, I guess I'll put it that way. So that was my first writing job. And after that I did end up going to get my MFA at the New School. And it was there that I really said, okay, I think I really want to take all of these experiences and all this writing I've been doing and turn it into a book somehow. And that was eight years ago. And the book has transformed a ton through that time. But now we're here. And it started as a nonfiction book and then it changed. It was a book of essays, but you know, it had a lot of lives. I'll say. And now we're here.

A (20:11)

So exciting. And you have kids of your own. How old are they?

B (20:14)

I have a seven year old son, a four and a half year old daughter, and a almost three year old son.

A (20:22)

Oh my gosh, you're like totally in the thick of it. And now to do book promotion and writing and editing. I mean, this is a lot, right?

B (20:31)

It's a lot. But I, I like it this way. Yeah, I think stillness is when I start to feel like. And then, you know, it all happens all at once and it's fun. And it's fun for my kids to see too, you know. So that's also been exciting.

A (20:49)

Oh, that's great. Really amazing. Were the paths to publication? Were the different iterations of the book prior to getting a book deal or after getting a book deal? What happened? Today's episode is sponsored by Quince. Fall is in full swing and it is the perfect time to refresh your wardrobe with pieces that feel as good as they look. Luckily, Quince makes it easy to look polished, stay warm and save big without compromising on quality. Quince has all the elevated essentials for fall. Think 100% Mongolian cashmere from $50 washable silk tops and skirts and perfectly tailored denim. All at prices that feel too good to be true. I'm eyeing their wool coats. They look designer level but cost a fraction of the price and the quality just as good, if not better. By partnering directly with ethical top tier factories and cutting out the middlemen, Quince cuts out the middlemen to deliver luxury quality pieces at half the price of similar brands. It's the kind of wardrobe upgrade that feels smart, stylish and and effortless. Quince's sweaters have become staples in my wardrobe. They are reliable and beautiful and I just get excited every time a Quince package arrives. Quince has really become a one stop shop so keep it classic and cozy this fall with long lasting staples from quince. Go to quince.com zibby for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N C-E.com zivie to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com zy Today's episode has been sponsored by Live It Up Super Greens Moms. You do everything for everyone else and somehow your own wellness always gets bumped to the bottom of the list. That's where Live It Up Super Greens comes in. It's a daily habit that actually works. No hassle, no fuss, just scoop, mix and go. Whether you're tackling school drop off, conference calls, Zooms or the laundry mountain, this is one easy win that supports digestion, energy and immune health in just 30 seconds. Live it Up Super Greens is an all natural blend of over 20 superfoods formulated with organic vegetables, probiotics, digestive enzymes and naturally derived ingredients. Just one scoop a day can promote gut health, support your immune system and give you the feel good energy you can count on. It's designed by nutritionists, third party, tested for purity and made to be easy on your stomach. No grassy taste or chalky texture. Mix it with water, milk or a smoothie and make it a healthy habit you'll look forward to. You'd never believe a green drink tastes so good. If you haven't mixed Super Greens into your routine, I Live it up is a must add. It tastes so much better than the others and it's way more affordable. Live It Up Super Greens offers premium quality without the premium price. It's one of the most affordable ways to support your health daily. And by the way, it is absolutely delicious. I love it. Easy to clean up, easy to use, and amazing. Live it up has become a quick and easy way for me to stay on top of my health. So Liv it up is offering you 15% off your first order if you including subscriptions with code booked, shipping is always free. Head to letsliveitup.com booked and use code booked for 15% off your first Super Greens order. These statements have not been evaluated by the fda. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

B (24:23)

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A (24:26)

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B (24:55)

So both When I was in grad school, I originally went. I was a. I was getting my nonfiction degree and I had a professor who just kept on reading my essays and he was like, I don't know, something's. Something's missing. And I think that, I think I always felt I heard people's reaction as I was writing and I just felt very, you know, I felt limited. And I think this is something that all writers have to contend with. You know, ultimately we write what we know, whether it's nonfiction or fiction you're writing from, you're tapping into some experience. And I think for me, I wasn't able to tell the stories that I wanted to tell in the way I wanted to tell them in the nonfiction realm. And so that iteration was pre publication I ended up scrapping all of that and saying, hey, let me try my hands at fiction. And like, it just completely freed me up immediately. So that professor was right. And I think, you know, originally the book was from one perspective. And again, I didn't feel like I was able to tell the story in its entirety the way I wanted to tell it. And then I ultimately included the other sister's perspective. So the book alternates between the three sisters perspectives. And I think. And that was also pre publication, but post a lot of rejection. So all of these things. And not to say that I changed the book to. In order to fit, you know, in order to get published or fit any one narrative, but I think that all of those experiences were helpful and, you know, helped me say, okay, let's take a breath, think about the book, that. Let's think about the story I want to tell and what's the best way to tell that story. So I'm actually thankful for that rejection and all of those different iterations because when I read the book now, it does feel complete to me. And I'm very proud of the story that I'm telling. And I obviously wouldn't have got here if. If I didn't go through all of those different steps.

A (27:19)

And when you think about how many drafts and how long it took and all of that, what is the thing you most want people to take away from the book? What was the cord of it that you were just like, I have to make sure I get this in the book. I need people to read this.

B (27:36)

It's a great question. I think that I really wanted to speak. Speak to the multitude. I think there's like a multitude of A, female experiences, B, Jewish experiences, C, female Jewish experiences. And I think that this culture is so unique in its complexity and also in its joy. And I really wanted these sisters to be seen in all of their complexity and in. And this Jewish community to be seen in all of its joy. I think that I didn't know this maybe when I was writing the book, but now I. Now it's come full circle where I think that we've spent the last two years, like, as an international, worldwide Jewish community, sort of reeling from. From a lot of the negativity and a lot of the bad pr. I'll say. And a lot. Many of us have had less than fun experiences, you know, and I think that for me, it's really, really, really important to get back to the joyfulness of being Jewish. And that doesn't mean that we ignore some of the Ugliness and some of the complexities and some of the, you know, the more, you know, there's peaks and valleys. That doesn't mean that there can't be peaks and valleys, but it does. But I do want to celebrate what it means to be Jewish today. And more specific, specifically celebrate this community that has endured. And, you know, a lot of people don't know that they're is a Syrian Jewish community. I think that we've seen that over the past year. A lot of people want to, I don't want to say, like, whitewash the Jewish experience, but like, that's, you know, and I. And this is a community with a lot of flavor and with a very, very interesting history. And that has. It's a community that has pulled itself up by its bootstraps and that, you know, has not really looked back at the persecution and at the negativity, but that has said, okay, we're here now and what will we do with what we have? And they've done a lot. And so I guess there's a lot of things I want people to take away from it, but those are just a few.

A (30:09)

Amazing. Yeah, very well said. That was great. And now that this book is coming out, what are you working on next? Do you have another book? Are you just gonna go all in on this and just give it a break? What's the plan?

B (30:24)

I am working on another book. I can't wait to. You know, I think that promoting a book is obviously needless to say, very different than the actual writing of it. And I didn't. I'm grateful because I didn't realize how much I missed the actual writing part. I am working on another book. It has to do with a group of 40 year old, 40 year old women who go on a tennis retreat in Boca.

A (30:51)

Oh my gosh. I love that.

B (30:54)

So that's the, the overall pitch. And you know, I'm just in like the fun idea part now where I'm like writing down notes and writing down lines and, you know, I have like all my thoughts scattered around. So it's fun.

A (31:09)

That is really fun. Do you have a title?

B (31:12)

I do.

A (31:12)

What is it?

B (31:13)

I do have. So it's Love comma for. So a little pun for tennis people.

A (31:21)

We have a book that we're publishing that's come by a woman named Jane Costello next year in 2026, and it's called 40 Love.

B (31:29)

Oh my God.

A (31:30)

Sorry. And actually I wrote a novel called 40 Love, which didn't sell, but I wrote it, you know, right before COVID and tried to sell it. Actually, I sent it out the day that Covid started, and people, like, didn't find it on their desks until, like, a year later when they finally went back to the office. Anyway, I threw mine away. But then this submission came to us from an author we had already published. And I was like, oh, my gosh, that's my title. Yes, you should do it. So they did. So we bought it, and now we're publishing it. But anyway, love 40 is great.

B (31:58)

It's gonna be working, Taylor. Love 40. I mean, like, in my book, we're down, and in your book, you're up. Yeah.

A (32:05)

Yeah, that's true.

B (32:09)

So it's a great title then.

A (32:11)

I love yours.

B (32:12)

It's perfect.

A (32:13)

Well, we have to. I have to introduce you to Jane Costello, and the two of you will do events together, and I want to do a whole 40 love tournament or something, so that'll be fun.

B (32:24)

That would be amazing.

A (32:24)

Right?

B (32:25)

Yes. Are you a. I know. Your husband's a tennis player.

A (32:28)

I am a tennis player. We actually played tennis this morning. I'm in my. Tennessee tennis that transitions to regular life outfits. So, you know.

B (32:36)

Very cute. Thank you. Thank you.

A (32:39)

Okay, last question. Any advice to aspiring authors and. Or aspiring Jewish authors?

B (32:46)

Aspiring authors in general. Just write every day. That's one piece of advice that I got that I'm sure you've gotten. But it's the truth. It doesn't need to be two hours at a desk. It doesn't need to be 20 pages on a word document. Write every day. It could be a note in your notes app. Just keep your eyes open and record something. I won't even say write, because I feel like that sounds intimidating and, you know, feels like it has to be perfect in some way, but record something every day. Aspiring Jewish authors. I would just say, don't be afraid to tell your story. Don't be. And, you know, that goes to. You know, you might be afraid of offending the Jewish community. You might be afraid of offending someone. I feel like we're all in this hypersensitive place where we're. So. We're tiptoeing. And I hope to take my own advice as well. Don't tiptoe. I think that there's a Jewish tradition in art of diving into the deep end, and that's what makes such a. That's what makes, I think, Jewish creators and artists so influential, so dynamic, is that we have a history of diving in, not being afraid, saying things maybe that shouldn't be said. And let's continue that tradition going forward. Love it.

A (34:22)

Amen. Thank you so much.

B (34:26)

And thank you for everything that you do for Jewish authors, for all authors. You're incredible and I seriously don't know how you do it. And you play tennis this morning, so it's a double win. You're amazing. Thank you.

A (34:42)

Well, thank you for coming on and for saying that. And I love that this whole thing has come full circle from when we first met. And congratulations. It's really, really awesome.

B (34:52)

Thank you so much.

A (34:53)

Okay.

B (34:54)

All right.

A (34:55)

Bye. Bye. Bye. Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have Time to read Books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram, ibbeowens and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the book. Hey, I'm Paige Desorbo and I'm always thinking about underwear. I'm Hannah Berner and I'm also thinking about underwear, but I prefer full coverage. I like to call them my granny panties. Actually, I never think about underwear. That's the magic of Tommy John.

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