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- [00:00]
Zibby Owens
BetterHelp online therapy bought this 30 second ad to remind you right now, wherever you are, to unclench your jaw, relax your shoulders, take a deep breath in and out. Feels better, right? That's 15 seconds of self care. Imagine what you could do with more visit betterhelp.com randompodcast for 10% off your first month of therapy. No pressure, just help. But for now, just relax.
- [00:42]
Georgia Hunter
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- [01:12]
Unknown
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- [01:45]
Zibby Owens
Hi, this is Zibby Owens and you're listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have Time to Read Books. In my daily show, I interview today's latest bestseller, selling buzziest or underrated authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time. As a bookstore owner, publisher, author, and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to stay in the know, get insider insights and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zibbemedia.com and follow me on Instagram. Ibby Owens Georgia Hunter is the author of One Good Thing, a novel, and she was recently on this podcast for We Were the Lucky Ones, where we talked with her and about the adaptation of her book and all that. When Georgia Hunter was 15 years old, she discovered that she came from a family of Holocaust survivors. Years later, she embarked on a journey of intensive research, determined to unearth and record her family's remarkable story. The result is the new York Times bestseller, We Were the Lucky Ones, which has been published in over 20 languages and adapted for television by Hulu as a highly acclaimed limited series. It was actually just nominated for a Critics Choice Award because I watched her and talked to her right before that happened. Unfortunately, they didn't win, but whatever. One Good Thing is Georgia's second novel. She lives in Connecticut with her husband and their two sons. Welcome back, Georgia. I'm totally fucked with Zimmy. I am delighted to have you back to talk about one good thing Thing. Your amazing novel that is so captivating and oh my gosh, I feel like I've traveled the world having read this, so congrats.
- [03:33]
Georgia Hunter
Oh, well, thank you. Thanks so much for having me back. I'm really excited to chat today.
- [03:36]
Zibby Owens
Sure. I should have been more specific. I feel like I've traveled all over Italy and I would say top to bottom, but I have no sense of geography, so I shouldn't say that. It probably is not.
- [03:45]
Georgia Hunter
That's pretty accurate.
- [03:47]
Zibby Owens
Okay. Talk about why the novel, why here? I loved the picture in the end of you in Rome at age three, by the way. But just the backstory and the story.
- [03:59]
Georgia Hunter
Absolutely. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me back on. It was such a pleasure chatting with you about. We Were the Lucky ones. So my first novel was so deeply ingrained in my personal history. So like, as you know, it was based on my grandfather's Holocaust survival story and his family. And it took me almost a decade to unearth and record it. And so, and then I got to do it again and it was, you know, turned into a series. So I spent like 16 years of my life with this project. And so when my editor Pam over at Penguin said, hey, what's next? I had to really think hard about where I wanted to, you know, allot my head space and my heart space. And because, you know, when you, when you write a book and you know this, like you, you live in that space for a very long time and hopefully you get to keep talking about it for a long time too. And so, you know, I drawn to, I kept coming back to Europe and to the Holocaust and to sort of these untold stories that were waiting to be discovered. And I liked the idea of trying to tell Italy's Holocaust story in particular because it felt the details of that history felt relatively unknown to me. I feel like it's not something we typically learn about in school. I mean, I could name a few big names, Mussolini, you know, like, but that was about it. Like I didn't know much about the history. And I thought it would be really interesting to dive in and try to tell that. That history through the eyes of a kind of an ordinary young woman. I'm also really drawn to Italy. You mentioned the picture with my father. I just posted that to my Instagram yesterday. Italy is a place where my parents first met. So they are both American. They were both living there in the 70s. My mom was running a clothing store and my dad was actually acting in spaghetti westerns and directing films and plays and writing. And they met through the expat community and fell in love and stayed for a combined 17 years. And so I was born, you know, back in the States once I settled back into Massachusetts. But I remember growing up and hearing stories upon stories about life in Italy and the culture and the people and the food and. And so I think this sort of fascination and love of Italy was sort of baked into my DNA. And I took my first trip when I was a toddler and it's. I have a major wanderlust. I have a bucket list a mile long and I love to travel and explore. But Italy is. Has been one of those places I just keep coming back to over and over and over again. And I think it's just. It feels like a second home in some way. So it holds a very special place in my heart. So between sort of the unknown Holocaust history past and then just feeling so connected with this place where my parents spent so much of their time, I felt very drawn to that as a setting.
- [06:43]
Zibby Owens
Well, I'm glad you said that. You also did not know that much about Italian Holocaust history, because I was like, wait, that happened the part with Mussolini and then he was in jail and then got out of jail and he was in power one day. And like all these twists and turns which the country is going through, and as the reader were going through, I was like, who, like, who knew this? I didn't know. So thank you.
- [07:08]
Georgia Hunter
Oh, absolutely. I mean, and it was. It was very confusing. I mean, the history of Eastern Europe, it was very black and white. And especially if you were Jewish at the time, you know, with occupation, your life was at risk. And so Italy was much more of a slow build. And you had these laws called the racial laws that were little by little sort of similar to the Nuremberg Laws, chipping away at the rights of Italy's Jews. But life kind of went on until the Germans came and occupied the north. And then the Allies started coming up through the South. And then all of a sudden, if you were Jewish and you Found yourself in the north. You were in a lot of trouble. Your life was at risk. But in the meantime, it was just. Yes, twists, turns left and right. Mussolini in power, in jail, broken out of jail, back in, out of power, in power. Partners in groups, resistant groups, civil war. It was all happening. Honestly, like, I have a. I have a cheat sheet to try to keep track of. Was very confusing for me. And I had to remind myself that. That that confusion was also part of Lily as my main character, part of her worldview. So she was trying to keep up with this history as it was unfolding. And to be honest, there's still debate today, like, about the role, you know, what happened and who, the how and the why, and also the role of the Italian people in protecting the Jews, the role of the church in protecting the Jews. So it's still controversial today, which is also I find interesting. So I really didn't want to, like, pick one side. I really wanted to try to tell all sides of that story through Lily's perspective. So I hope I accomplish that.
- [08:40]
Zibby Owens
Well, the goal, I mean, I fell into the story because of the characters, but I also learned, based on everything that was happening with them. So that was, like, an added bonus. But of course, it's really a story of two best friends and how they became good friends. Like, what they filled in the voids that they filled in each other, which so many friends can understand. Like, oh, this person gives me that, and this person gives me that. And how one of them was sort of inspired by Helena a little bit, which I loved, because I can't get enough of your family characters as characters, which is a creepy thing to say, I'm sure. But it's the lengths we'll go to for the friends that we love so much. And, you know, Lily goes to the nth degree. Right. She'll, you know. So, yeah, tell me about the two of them and the friendship and all of it.
- [09:31]
Georgia Hunter
Yeah, it was really. It was. You know, the first book was based so much on my family, and there were friendships within the family, but it was really. That was. The theme is the family. And it was really fun for me in many ways to lean into the theme of friendship in this novel. And there was still motherhood and survival and all, you know, all these decisions. Decisions that Lily was facing, which. Which paralleled in many ways the decisions that my family faced in the Holocaust. But it was really beautiful to draw upon my own, you know, friendships and that bond that I share with my dearest girlfriends and to try to imagine myself In Lily's shoes. And they really are opposites, right. Lily is kind of like shy and introverted and bookish and very much like a rule follower, which is totally me. And then Esti, who you compared to Helena, who's my great aunt, who's kind of this big, bold personality, defiant to a fault. Right. And won't take no for an answer. And so you have their. Like, they're very opposite in many ways, but they share this incredible bond. And in the beginning of the story that actually the book opens with Estes child being born, the birth of her son Theo. And so he ends up playing this significant role, too, when Lily finds that suddenly, you know, disaster strikes when they're in hiding in Florence. And suddenly Lily is tasked with keeping. Keeping Theo safe. Esti says, I can't. I can't leave this place, but you can you go and try to keep my son safe, please? And so Lily has to sort of like, step into this role of. Of caretaker and mother. And she's a couple years younger. You know, Estie's like the woman, you know, like, in every way and older. The looks, the confidence. And Lily really has to. It's. You know, it's a coming of age for her. She has to kind of step into her courage and her confidence that needs to build for her to even herself believe that she can take care of this child and kind of go on run with him on this epic journey south. You're right along the length of Italy trying to find safety. So, yeah, the theme of friendship was. It was a really beautiful one for me to explore, and I think something hopefully readers can relate to. And it's love at the core.
- [11:37]
Zibby Owens
Right.
- [11:37]
Georgia Hunter
I think that's one of the best takeaways from early readers that I've gotten is you mentioned Italy. Sometimes people say this book, even though set to this pretty horrible backdrop of the holocaust and the war, makes me want to go to Italy. So that. I love that, though, because I feel like I hopefully painted this picture of what Italy was like and is still like this. This. It's like almost like a character in the book, you know? But I feel like, yeah, through Lily's story, we get introduced to the theme of love, and that's with Esti, her best friend. That's with this. Her father, Massimo. I love that I built that so much on my relationship with my own father, with Theo, this little boy who she becomes her son. And then it was fun also to build in a romance with a young American soldier who she meets on the streets of Rome. And that character as well was really built around and inspired by my late father and by my husband, who are like these two very southern gentlemen and the kindest, most big hearted men I know. So even though I say this book was very different in the that it was, you know, it was not my family history. I wasn't unearthing it and trying to just do my family story justice. I was definitely inspired by my dear friends, my two little boys, my father, my husband. I mean, I don't know how to do it any other way. New to this writing world, but to be inspired by real people, I find so much joy and I draw so much from the people and the places and the experiences I've had in my life. So that's how I know to do it.
- [13:13]
Zibby Owens
I mean, there is no right or wrong to creativity, right? And who knows what happens in our brains, but it has to come from somewhere, right? So exactly. I mean, strangers, you might as well take it from people you know and write. But no, the theme of love is so powerful. And also, how many decisions, right? I was so struck because they went to so many places, they made so many choices, and to think that they were doing all this, I mean, it sounds so obvious, but it's not like they could check the news on their phone. It's not like they could check maps. I mean, they were just out there and trusting, you know, this person at this church and this neighborhood and this guy who says, this is okay and okay, let's go this way. And all those, you know, throughout all of Holocaust history, that is like, one thing that always stands out to me is the split second decisions were all life and death in the end.
- [14:06]
Georgia Hunter
Absolutely. It's amazing. And with my family story, all those decisions ended up playing out for them where they absolutely may not have. Like, there could have been 100 of those little decisions and big decisions and last, like you said, split second decisions that ended differently for them. They got very lucky. And for Lily and Esti, you know, I. I thought long and hard about how their story should end. And I won't give it away, but I just feel like the making those decisions amidst so much uncertainty. Oh, just like again, when I put myself in Lily's shoes, that was almost the hardest part. It's like sliding doors moments left and right. You're like, if I choose this, my life goes that way. If I choose this, my life goes that way. And in the worst case scenario is, is you're caught and shipped to a camp, you know, like, so it was the worst case scenario, that was if you chose wrong. So trying to make informed decisions amidst so much uncertainty and trying to figure out who to trust, where to put, you know where to put that trust. I can only imagine how hard that was for so many millions of people experiencing it.
- [15:15]
Zibby Owens
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- [18:54]
Georgia Hunter
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- [19:27]
Zibby Owens
And the love you mentioned with her dad, I found that to be such a poignant element of the story. And you know, even when you say how the dad had gotten sort of frailer and you know, during at one transition I won't give things away either. But just as he's gotten older and what it's like to watch your parents getting older, which you know, you don't have to be in the Holocaust to see. This is a natural passage of time. But just the love for each other and wanting each other to be happy and all of that, it was just so real.
- [20:00]
Georgia Hunter
Thank you. That means a lot to hear that. And it really, I think, you know, amidst all the darkness and that uncertainty, I think we cling to those things that are real and like your love for your family is real or maybe the conversation you're having across the table with a stranger who happened to let you into her house is real. Like, whatever's in front of you at that moment. But I do feel like Lily, and, you know, she loses touch with everyone and everyone she knows, Like. Like she has nobody for a long time. And I also thought about, you know, you learn right away that her mother has passed. Like, her mother passed at university. She doesn't have. When she loses touch with sd, it's really her father who she leans on for that kind of support. And at one point, she's even having a conversation with her. Her late mother in her head, wishing she had that presence. So there was just, like, so many dynamics. It was really interesting to play around with in her narrative. And I had the freedom to do that, which was, you know, again, in the first book. And we were the lucky ones. Like, I took no creative license there. I mean, I had to, a little bit, try to imagine their dialogue. And all the entire history was based on what was passed down to me through my research and oral. Oral histories. And here I really had the. The luxury of deciding where she would go and what would happen to my main charact, which was equal parts very freeing and also terrifying.
- [21:22]
Zibby Owens
It would be neat if you could. Which is, like, impossible if you could, like, organize tours, because I feel like this is a geographic journey as well as emotional, and it would be so neat to go and retrace Lily's steps and where she went and all these small towns and villages. Like, I would love to do that. Not that I have time, but I.
- [21:43]
Georgia Hunter
Would love to do it. Yeah, they love that. And that was my. One of my favorite parts of my research. My. And I went over and traveled together throughout the length of Italy. And stopping in all the places where Lily stopped and sort of imagining it through her eyes was really, really beautiful. I mean, Italy, you know, it's. It's got these. The big cities that we've all seen and pictures or been lucky enough to visit it. But sometimes it's these tiny little towns that are little specks on the map and so exploring those places, and they're very small. So, like, everybody knows everybody. And so, you know, if Lilly lands in one of these little towns, like, people are going to talk, and do they. Do they pose as Aryan or do they not? You know, they have to make all these decisions, but you just also like walking around them and. And also knowing that there was this whole network of underground workers, people, Christians, Catholics, Jews alike, working together to try to protect the Jews who are in hiding in that little town. You know, I remember reading about a town called Assisi where there's. There's a gentleman helping to print false IDs secretly from the back of his shop. And this tiny little town was hiding over 300 Jews. I'm like, 300 people. Like, where were they? I walked down these tiny little side streets, and you could walk the village from start to finish in five minutes. Like, where were they? You know, so just. Yeah, it would be very cool to, like. I recommend going to some of these places in this. In the book, even if it's not a tour.
- [23:09]
Zibby Owens
Yeah, exactly.
- [23:10]
Georgia Hunter
Listeners, email me. I'll happily give you some tips on.
- [23:13]
Zibby Owens
Where to go when you're there.
- [23:15]
Georgia Hunter
But yes, just the whole imagining it then and now was just wild.
- [23:20]
Zibby Owens
Well, when I watched We Were the Lucky Ones, there was a scene where the Nazis sort of come into their neighborhood and they all run to the window of their, like, beautiful apartment, and they're looking down and the Nazis are, like, right there. Do you remember? You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, yeah. And that scene, like, totally stayed with me. And then. And I was trying to imagine it, right? I was, like, sitting on the couch here, like, oh, my gosh. Can you imagine if they were, like, right there? And then, like, fast forward, not too long, and there were protesters, like, right out my window. And we had the same thing of, like, going to the window, and my kids were here and, like, calling and facetiming, you know, I was like, oh, my gosh. I thought this was just in a book or a movie or whatever, and now here we are. So I'm just wondering how you feel about where we are today in relation to this, especially with all the anti Semitism publishing world and all of that, too.
- [24:15]
Georgia Hunter
I know, I know, I know. First, I mean, obviously with the Lucky Ones, I think it was 2008 when I set off to start interviewing relatives, and they never, ever would have thought that the book and the themes in the story, in their lives, what they faced, would feel so relevant today. Like, that was just impossible in my mind. But here we are. It does. It's crazy. It feels like the world's moving backwards and the statistics, when you start to read them, are horrifying. Not only about anti Semitism, which is just rampant, but with how little, like, younger generations even know about the Holocaust. And so for me, it's kind of just. And also, it's. It's. I feel this urgency because we're 80 years out, right? It was just Holocaust Remembrance Day and we celebrated the 80th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz. So the survivors are fewer and fewer and I feel an urgency now more than ever to tell their story for that, that reason and also just because if we can find ways to reach younger audiences especially, I just feel like often the stem of anti Semitism is lack of knowledge and if we can at least try to share a bit of history in a way that doesn't feel like we're forcing it down people's throats or that doesn't feel like we're, we're painting it in statistics, but that just feels human. It's just a human story about what it was like to be there. Perhaps we can raise awareness and, and not only that, but find ways that as readers or watchers or if you're going to see the play, whatever medium it is, that you can relate. But they feel like we can relate to the story, then we can empathize and then the conversations can be had and then the world can like inch its way toward a better place. Do you know what I mean? Like, we just need more empathy. And when you don't know about something or you have a very narrow minded view on it, there's just no, there's no path toward relating and toward empathy. So I, you know, I just, it's, it's heartbreaking and it's scary where we are right now. But I'm trying to draw hope from stories like Lily's, from stories like my own families that I'm very lucky enough to still be talking about today and actually like talking a lot in schools today. So I'm getting invited to a lot of middle schools, high schools, colleges to talk about it. And we're developing a curriculum even around it. So that brings me so much hope that like the conversations are being had. And you know, popular culture is a way for us to decide as a society what's important. Like what should we be talking about. So if I can sort of keep telling these stories in ways that feel colorful and modern and relevant, then sort of how I feel. It's how I sleep at night.
- [26:52]
Zibby Owens
No, that's great. I mean, I feel the same way. Like if you really put yourself in someone's shoes, how can you just blatantly hate them? I mean, that's an oversimplification, but that we have to create more empathy. I 100% agree. Have you, have you felt like you have been a victim of any anti Semitism as a result of writing these books or anything like that?
- [27:15]
Georgia Hunter
I have not thank goodness. I have not. And I feel very lucky about that. How about you? I mean, I feel like. Have you? I'm sure.
- [27:24]
Zibby Owens
Yeah.
- [27:24]
Georgia Hunter
Well, your book just came out that was literally called On Being Jewish. Right?
- [27:28]
Zibby Owens
Yeah. I mean, I think one of the biggest, most blatant thing is all the stores who are unwilling to take it. And we've had a lot of bookstores who don't want to take any books I publish because I'm Jewish, which is crazy because even the authors are not Jewish. I mean, so, yeah, we've had.
- [27:45]
Georgia Hunter
It's real.
- [27:46]
Zibby Owens
It's real. It's very real and very open. People will literally say, like, we're not going to carry your books anymore. And I'm like, I can review your book or. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, not to mention all of that. And, yeah, I can't.
- [27:58]
Georgia Hunter
I'm certain that that's. That's happening. I haven't personally felt it. And I'm glad.
- [28:04]
Zibby Owens
I don't want Jewish author, you know, because a lot of people are now scared. A lot of other Jewish authors are scared to even dip their toes in the water because they're afraid. And so it's great to have experiences that are untarnished. So that's good.
- [28:17]
Georgia Hunter
Yes. Yeah, for sure. I feel very lucky.
- [28:20]
Zibby Owens
What are you working on now? Are you working on another book? Or you just. Are you going to not just promote, but, you know, all of that?
- [28:26]
Georgia Hunter
Oh, yeah. We're ramping up. I'm a month away from launch here, so there's a lot happening. And I'm actually heading out to LA tomorrow for the Critics Choice Awards for fun. So we got. We're lucky enough to get a couple nominations there. So I'm really still balancing both projects. The series, the book of the first one, and then now one good thing. And I'll be traveling a bunch in March for a book tour, and I have ideas circulating for a third book. I'm not sure yet. I'm not ready, ready to put a stake in the ground. But my kids are sweet. My boys are 13 and 7, and they really want me to write a children's book and they want to write it with me. So perhaps. Perhaps I kind of laughed it off for the first few times that they suggested it, and when they stuck with it, I was like, you know, maybe there's something there. So I have some ideas that perhaps might lead to a children's book or a young adult or. We'll see. But again, I think I keep coming back to that audience. I just. Seventh grade. I Don't know. There's just so such a pivotal age for. I can see it in my son and I remember from when I was that age. So finding a way to reach that audience would be pretty, pretty neat.
- [29:33]
Zibby Owens
I have written children's books and am now doing a graphic novel with different various kids of mine. And it is, I highly recommend it whether or not anything happens with the projects. But like My daughter, who's 11, We've been working on this really fun graphic novel and we got it colored and illustrated and like, it's been the greatest thing to work on something with her and to have her ideas in there. So I would recommend doing any projects with the kids because at the end of the day, what are we going to remember? Like the novel I have in a drawer that I never want anyone to see or, you know, this manuscript.
- [30:06]
Georgia Hunter
So time that we spent working on it together, that is probably the nudge that I need. So thank you.
- [30:11]
Zibby Owens
You're welcome. Do you have any advice for aspiring authors, especially in historical fiction and your genre?
- [30:18]
Georgia Hunter
Yeah, I think, you know, when something piques your, your interest or your curiosity, follow your nose and see where it takes you. You know, for me, Lily's story actually started very differently in my mind of where she would go, where she would begin and end, and how the story would unfold. And so I think also be open minded to, as you get into the nitty gritty, just see what feels right. You know, work with them. Work with a good team too. If you have, if you, if you happen to have an agent, amazing. If not, find a book, a writing group or someone who you trust and love to read your work and share some feedback. But I think it's important, you know, to pick, pick a subject or a theme that means something to you. So don't try to write for anybody. Don't try to, you know, pick a subject that's relevant today because trust me, by the time your book comes out, it's probably not going to be relevant. The whole, the whole process is so long and you're going to live with it for a long time. So pick something that settles in your heart that you kind of feel like, wow, I wouldn't mind spending time with this, or I really feel like I need to get this out and take the time and do the research and do the writing and read, Read Bird by Bird by Anne Lamott if you're new to this, because she will hold your hand and tell you it's okay to write, like really ugly first drafts. She uses a better word than that. But and kind of talk you through the process and then just have the faith that if you keep, keep going and see where it and and maybe it'll be a book or maybe it'll be a podcast or maybe it'll be a play, like maybe it'll be a series. There's so many ways that content can come to life now that it's. It's exciting. It's an exciting time to be creating it because I feel like there are so many different outlets. So again, kind of trusting your heart to see what feels right there. But surround yourself with people as you start asking the questions, as you start sharing your work, who love you and who support you. And I think that. And then let things bubble up from there.
- [32:07]
Zibby Owens
Love it. Well, good luck at the Critics Choice Awards. I hope you televised. I will definitely watch. I am like show junkie.
- [32:15]
Georgia Hunter
Be fun to be at the table and just there was so much hard work put into that show. So I'm just proud to like have that recognized.
- [32:21]
Zibby Owens
Aw. Well, it's well deserved. So good and so powerful, like all your stuff. So congratulations and thanks for coming on.
- [32:28]
Georgia Hunter
Thanks for having me.
- [32:30]
Zibby Owens
My pleasure. Okay, bye. Georgia. Thank you. Thank you for listening to Totally booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have time to read books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review. Follow me on Instagram, Iby Owens and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books. This is Paige Desorbo from Giggly Squad. This episode is sponsored by Boost Mobile, the newest 5G network in the country. With compelling deals for new lines, Boost Mobile makes it easy to switch. Today, Boost Mobile is no longer that prepaid wireless company you remember. They've invested billions into building their own 5G towers across America. With Boost Mobile's networks, customers enjoy the speed and service they'd expect from the big three. Plus groundbreaking benefits you'd only get from a true challenger of the industry. Boost Mobile will let you try the network risk free for 30 days. So visit your nearest Boost Mobile store or find us online@boostmobile.com today.
- [33:33]
Unknown
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- [34:05]
Georgia Hunter
Race the rudders.
- [34:06]
Zibby Owens
Raise the sails. Raise the sails. Captain and unidentified ship is approaching.
- [34:11]
Georgia Hunter
Over. Roger. Wait. Is that an enterprise sales solution? Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors. With LinkedIn ads, you can target the right people by industry, job title and more. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get started today at LinkedIn.com results, terms and conditions Appreciate.