Podcast Summary: Totally Booked with Zibby

Episode: James Frey, NEXT TO HEAVEN: A Novel
Date: December 22, 2025
Guest: James Frey
Host: Zibby Owens (with guest host Sydney)
Duration: ~33 minutes (Core content 02:44–32:44)

Episode Overview

In this popular episode, Zibby (with Sydney) interviews the controversial and best-selling author James Frey about his new novel, "Next to Heaven." The discussion ranges from the themes of wealth and addiction to Frey’s rebellious writing style and his reflections on controversy, truth, and the creative life. As always, Frey is candid, brash, insightful, and determined to push boundaries both on the page and off. The conversation offers listeners a compelling mix of literary insight, personal philosophy, and a behind-the-curtain look at the real-life town that inspired his latest book.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing James Frey and "Next to Heaven"

• James Frey’s Reputation: Known as "America’s most notorious author" and "the bad boy of American literature."
• The Novel’s Context: Inspired by living in ultra-wealthy New Canaan, CT, and spurred by a Hollywood producer who recommended Jackie Collins’s "Hollywood Wives."
• Style & Expectation: Frey promises the book is "funny, sharp, dangerous, [and] highly entertaining."
• Quote [04:04]:

  "The book is about wealth. The book is about money. The book is about how money... is the most addictive drug on the face of the planet." —James Frey

2. Literary Influences & Intent

• Jackie Collins and Danielle Steele: Read as research; praises their work as "fucking good," entertaining, and bold.
• Departure from Previous Works: "Next to Heaven" is lighter, funnier, and dirtier than earlier novels but still driven by the same obsession with human nature and emotional extremes.
• Writing as Experience:

  "When I write a book, the goal is never to write a book. It's to create something, to string words together in ways that provide a reader with an experience that they have never fucking had before." —James Frey [06:37]

3. Distinctive Writing Style

• Rejection of Literary Conventions: No quotation marks, no paragraph indents, repetitive for poetic effect — all intentional to "overwhelm" the reader and reflect speech and thought, not written tradition.
• Philosophy of Style:

  "A lot of what I do is very specifically designed to do certain things to the reader and it mimics language, but not written language... I remove the artifice of all that shit that we're supposedly required to use." —James Frey [08:19]
  "I write fast, I bombard you, I overwhelm you. I don't give you a chance to take a fucking breath." —James Frey [09:31]

• Singularity as Artistic Ideal:

  "…the goal for me as a writer and an artist is to leave the world differently. It's to write in a way that's unlike anything anyone's ever seen." —James Frey [10:16]

4. Truth, Fiction, and Artistic License

• Enduring Controversy: Frey's career famously straddles the lines between fiction and memoir.
• Subjectivity of Truth:

  "Truth is a subjective word... fact is a documentation of a verifiable event. Truth is however anyone interprets that event..." —James Frey [11:38]

• Art over Fact: Frey treats his novels as art, refusing to divulge "what's real and what's not," inviting readers to engage on their own terms.

5. Themes in "Next to Heaven": Disappointment, Wealth, and Reflection

• Character Disappointment: Every major character is disappointed in their lives.
• Personal Fulfillment: Frey contrasts the malaise of his characters with his own sense of accomplishment and peace.
• Quote [16:09]:

  "No, very much the opposite. But I have a great life... For all the madness of my life, I've had a crazy life. I had addiction very young... I have three children I love. I've met all kinds of cool, crazy people... I've had the life of my fucking dreams." —James Frey

6. Wealth, Unhappiness, and Societal Critique

• Mirror to Society: Frey dissects the dissatisfaction of the ultra-wealthy around him, noting that even among the highest achievers, “they’re still not happy.”
• Taoist Philosophy:

  "If you chase after money, your heart will never unclench." —Paraphrasing the Tao Te Ching [21:05]

• Role as Artist:

  "My job as an artist is... to hold a mirror up to the society I live in. And I hold that mirror up and I don't pass judgment..." [21:56]

7. Impact on His Hometown and Local Reception

• Inspiration for New Bethlehem: Frey's fictional town is modeled on New Canaan, CT (renamed for narrative freedom).
• Locals’ Reactions: Curiosity mixed with anxiety about who inspired characters.
• Community Mirror:

  "Half the town is going to pat you on the back and shake your hand. And half the town's gonna think you're a piece of fucking shit. And I sort of giggled. And I was like, perfect, man. Just the way I like it." —James Frey [31:45]

8. The Experience of Writing

• Feverish Creativity: Describes the act of writing as “magical,” “intense,” and “deeply personal.”
• Memories of the Process over Product: He doesn’t reread his books—memories are in the act, not the finished pages.
• Characterizing His Books:

  “A Million Little Pieces is... a long scream... I describe this book as a little giggle.” —James Frey [27:44]

• Why He Writes: Only creates when he has something new to “bring,” valuing the experience and risk over commercial routine.

9. Memorable and Humorous Moments

• On 'O Connecticut' Poem:

  “I don’t really remember what I said. I wrote about, like, trees and birds and shit. But just to do that—I don’t remember what I wrote. But I remember when I was writing it... it was just delicious.” —James Frey [27:11]

• On Getting Local Facts Wrong:

  “Imagine if I had called it New Canaan and some motherfucker’s going to come up to me while I’m trying to buy... shampoo, and they’re gonna be like, you got it wrong. Waveney Park's trail is this. Not this. So I called it New Bethlehem... fuck off, man, it's a book.” —James Frey [28:33]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:44 – Host and guest introductions, Frey’s reputation, background on "Next to Heaven"
• 04:04 – Frey describes the book’s premise and genesis
• 06:24 – Expands on themes: wealth, marriage, relationships, and intention to create unique reader experiences
• 08:02 – Host on Frey’s style; Frey on rejecting literary conventions
• 11:27 – Discussion on truth, fact, memoir, and fiction
• 15:43 – On disappointment (in the book and life); Frey’s reflections on his own happiness
• 21:05 – Analysis of wealth and unhappiness; Frey as societal mirror
• 23:46 – Frey on local reactions, New Bethlehem as New Canaan, and community impact
• 27:44 – "O Connecticut" poem story; the joy and process of writing
• 31:45 – Gossip, local reception; polarizing reactions anticipated
• 32:32 – Closing thanks and acknowledgments

Notable Quotes

• On Artistic Freedom:

  "I have the freedom to make the book as bold and as dirty and as dangerous as I want. And that's what I did." —James Frey [05:33]

• On Literary Rules:

  "There are no paragraph indentations because that half second it takes for your eye to move slows you down... There are no quotation marks because they're unnecessary... They don't in any way mimic actual language. It's just some arbitrary bullshit somebody said we have to do. Well, I don't accept it. So I wrote the way I write." —James Frey [09:10]

• On Truth and Art:

  "I write books. I make art with words. I tell stories that are designed to thrill and terrify and turn on and break readers..." —James Frey [12:25]

• On His Experience:

  "My memories of my books are not the words on the page, but the experiences I had writing them. And each of them has been very, very different." —James Frey [27:55]

Takeaways for Listeners

• "Next to Heaven" is both a satire and a drama about obscene wealth, social bubbles, and the universal search for meaning.
• James Frey remains uncompromising in his approach to literature, challenging conventions and reader expectations in both form and substance.
• The novel is rooted in real places and personalities, but ultimately, Frey insists on the prerogative of fiction and the importance of reader interpretation.
• Both fans and critics of Frey’s past work will find familiar provocations, but in a more playful, comedic, and locally-inflected mode.

For readers and listeners who appreciate literary risk-takers, social critique, and a bold, singular voice, this episode offers an unfiltered look at James Frey’s creative ethos and the provocative new world of "Next to Heaven."