Podcast Summary: Totally Booked with Zibby

Episode: Jane Hamilton, THE PHOEBE VARIATIONS: A Novel
Date: October 9, 2025
Host: Zibby Owens
Guest: Jane Hamilton

Main Theme / Purpose

This engaging episode features a live conversation at the Whitby Hotel between host Zibby Owens and acclaimed author Jane Hamilton, who discusses her much-anticipated new novel, The Phoebe Variations. Published by Zibby Publishing after nearly a decade in the making, the book examines powerful girlhood friendships, the complexities of adoption, and the impact of looking back at formative relationships from adulthood. The interview explores the book’s themes, creative process, and Hamilton’s notable literary career, peppered with warmth, humor, and insight.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Jane Hamilton’s Return and the Writing Process

• The Long Road to Publication
  • Hamilton shares she worked on The Phoebe Variations for about nine years, describing it as a book she “couldn’t get to work” for a long time.
  • The story’s early iterations were vastly different, including a version set in New York with Phoebe living with a comedy duo—ultimately, she “had to kind of put Spanx on the book and really focus...I just needed to be in that house in this Oak Parkish place and then see what happened.” (04:32)
• Exploring Setting and Character
  • The final version is set in the 1970s, portraying Phoebe as an 18-year-old on the verge of adulthood—intensely close with her friend Luna.

Central Themes in The Phoebe Variations

• Profound Friendships and Power Dynamics

  • The novel’s heart is the deep, pure friendship between Phoebe and Luna, exploring how these bonds “make you feel you can be your best self and you feel unselfconscious.” (05:20, Jane Hamilton)
  • Both characters are obsessed with Jane Eyre:

    “Jane Eyre is the perfect book...because it concerns Jane Eyre’s conflict, tension between wanting to have autonomy and also thinking she has to be submissive. And I think that really probably resonates very deeply...with Phoebe as she’s coming of age, because her friend Luna is very powerful.” (06:19, Jane Hamilton)

  • The older Phoebe looks back, questioning the power dynamics and choices of her youth.

• Narrative Structure – Framing and Time

  • Zibby points out early narrative “teasers” about Luna’s eventual fate, a decision Hamilton says was “more about timing and organization than deliberate plotting.”

    “All writing is an organizational problem. And when are you going to dispense the information? Is the big question, really.” (08:25, Jane Hamilton)

Authorial Reflection and Parallels with Phoebe

• Hamilton’s Own Artistic Journey
  • When Zibby asks if writing was ever a second choice for Hamilton, paralleling a passage in the book, Hamilton replies:

    “No, writing is my heart’s desire. Okay. Phew. Although I would have loved to have been as talented and as disciplined a piano player as Phoebe...but I always knew that I would write throughout.” (10:31, Jane Hamilton)

Family, Motherhood, Adoption, and Regret

• Evocative Scenes of Motherhood
  • Zibby reads a passage about Phoebe’s eruption of anger toward her young son. Hamilton relates, sharing her own experiences—“I threw my son in the lake when he was five...He’d say, ‘Can I have 20 bucks? You threw me in the lake.’...It’s over. You can’t go back. Anyway, they turned out okay.” (12:11, Jane Hamilton)
• Complex Adoption Narratives
  • Phoebe’s resistance to learning about her birth parents is unusual; Hamilton observes, “She does not wish to have any fantasies about what could be or what was...her mother, Greta, pushes her to engage with the family, which feels kind of brutal to her.” (25:10, Jane Hamilton)

Notable Supporting Characters

• Hertha the Cleaning Lady & The Role of Gossip
  • Hertha, the German cleaning lady who moves through the neighborhood relaying secrets, is beloved by both the author and host:

    “Hertha's the cleaning lady in this 1970ish Oak Park-ish place. She cleans for many. She tells each household what’s gone on...so she is, you know, just the...town crier. And so Phoebe learns valuable information from her and also takes care of her at the end of her days.” (25:57, Jane Hamilton)

  • Hertha was inspired by a real person Hamilton met while working at Marshall Fields.

Reflections on Being an Oprah's Book Club Author

• Career Impact & Personal Story
  • Hamilton describes the life-changing experience of being chosen twice by Oprah’s Book Club, earning “a million readers.”

    “She gave me...a million readers. That's remarkable...she makes you feel like you are loved, you are best friends, you're the most interesting person she's ever encountered...It's remarkable to be in the presence of that.” (18:10, Jane Hamilton)

Starting Out as a Writer

• Family Influence and ‘Pre-Email’ Determination
  • Hamilton’s mother and grandmother were writers. With initial rejections, she kept writing on a farm, sending stories “over the transom” into literary magazines, eventually getting her break at Harper’s, thanks to an anonymous intern.
  • “This was pre-email. We were free. I look back and I just think that was really great...” (20:36, Jane Hamilton)

What The Phoebe Variations Offers Readers

• Lasting Emotional Resonance
  • When asked what she wants readers to take from the book, Hamilton says:

    "Although there's sorrow in this book, my feeling, my vibration...is that it's warm. There's a warmth to it....I would just—I mean, that would make me really happy if there was a percentage of readers who held it to his or her heart.” (27:58, Jane Hamilton)

On Publishing and Collaboration

• Hamilton offers high praise for her editor, Cory Hunter, calling her “the ultimate shepherd” and marveling at her detailed, insightful editing. (29:12)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Sometimes you just have to kind of put Spanx on the book and really focus.” (04:32, Jane Hamilton)
• “Jane Eyre is the perfect book...it concerns Jane’s conflict between wanting to have autonomy and also thinking she has to be submissive. I think that really...resonates with Phoebe...” (06:19, Jane Hamilton)
• “All writing is an organizational problem. And when are you going to dispense the information? Is the big question, really.” (08:25, Jane Hamilton)
• “No, writing is my heart's desire.” (10:31, Jane Hamilton)
• “I threw my son in the lake when he was five...Anyway, they turned out okay.” (12:11, Jane Hamilton)
• “[Oprah] makes you feel like you are loved, you are best friends, you're the most interesting person she's ever encountered. And it's remarkable to be in the presence of that.” (18:10, Jane Hamilton)
• “Hertha's the town crier...Phoebe learns valuable information from her and also takes care of her at the end of her days.” (25:57, Jane Hamilton)
• “That was really great to come up in this time where you just put your head down and did the thing.” (20:36, Jane Hamilton)
• “Although there's sorrow in this book...my vibration is that it's warm...I would be really happy if there was a percentage of readers who held it to his or her heart.” (27:58, Jane Hamilton)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:09 – Jane Hamilton joins, discusses book’s origin after a long break
• 04:27 – Early versions of the story and why the setting matters
• 05:20 – The intensity and nuances of girlhood friendships
• 06:19 – Why Jane Eyre is central to the story
• 07:35 – Narrative choices and when to reveal key information
• 10:31 – Hamilton on writing as her true calling
• 12:11 – Reflections on motherhood, regret, and forgiveness
• 18:10 – Experiences with Oprah’s Book Club
• 20:36 – Getting started as a writer and early publishing journey
• 23:55 – Adoption, found family, and the search for identity
• 25:57 – The character of Hertha and the power of gossip
• 27:58 – What Hamilton hopes readers take from the novel
• 29:12 – Praise for editor Cory Hunter and behind-the-scenes acknowledgments

Conclusion

This episode delivers a heartfelt, humorous, and deeply insightful look at Jane Hamilton's creative life and latest novel. Listeners are treated to vivid behind-the-scenes anecdotes, thoughtful explorations of universal themes like friendship, family, regret, and identity, and a sense of the warmth that Hamilton hopes will linger after the last page is turned. Highly recommended for fans of literary fiction and for anyone interested in the art of writing and the stories that shape us.