Totally Booked with Zibby – Episode Summary
Guest: Jennifer Oko, author of Just Emilia
Date: September 22, 2025
Host: Zibby Owens

Episode Overview

This episode features author, journalist, and filmmaker Jennifer Oko discussing her latest novel, Just Emilia. The conversation delves into the book’s origins, its inventive narrative structure exploring stages of a woman’s life, the emotional complexities of mother-daughter relationships, and Jennifer’s multifaceted creative career. The episode is filled with insights on writing, memory, compassion, and the challenges and joys of storytelling.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Spark Behind Just Emilia

• Elevator Inspiration:
  Jennifer recounts the book’s origin story, explaining how a fleeting moment stuck in a D.C. metro elevator led her to imagine a novel where a character is trapped with versions of herself from different ages.
  • Quote:

    “By the time I got home… I was thinking this could be a really interesting premise for a novel. Stuck in an elevator with people. And then I was like, who would be the hardest person to be stuck with? And I thought myself probably.” (03:37 - Jennifer Oko)

2. Crafting Three Versions of the Same Character

• Intergenerational Encounter:
  Zibby highlights the book’s premise—a woman, on the day of her mother’s death, is confronted by her teenage and older selves.
  • Jennifer reflects on the emotional connections between mothers and daughters and how writing the “middle” character was a natural extension of her own experiences as a mother.
• Impact of Key Events Across Time:
  Jennifer describes wanting to see how a singular traumatic event would reverberate through a character’s life—especially as memories and guilt evolve.
  • Quote:

    “I loved the idea of one incident having this impact throughout stages of her life… How did that impact her at 17? At 47 and 17… what happens with our memories, with our guilt, with our experiences as we go on in life.” (05:14 - Jennifer Oko)

3. Writing Process and Environment as Muse

• Blending Fact and Fiction:
  Jennifer clarifies that although the "middle" character draws loosely from her own life, her family dynamics are not strictly autobiographical.
• Navigating Writer’s Block & The Flow:
  She talks about juggling multiple book projects and choosing to immerse herself in Just Emilia during the pandemic because of its natural momentum.
  • Quote:

    “Sometimes you get the flow. And sometimes you don’t. It came naturally to get rolling with it. And then obviously, there are lots of hiccups as you go. And I’m very much the kind of writer who writes herself into a corner and then tries to figure out how to write herself out of it.” (07:10 - Jennifer Oko)

• DC’s Past, Present, Future:
  The narrative leaves the elevator to explore D.C. at various points in history, which Jennifer found creatively stimulating.

4. Professional Trajectory & Memoir Writing

• From Newsroom to Novelist:
  Jennifer began her career as a journalist (ABC News, CBS), which provided a grounding in storytelling and a “creative outlet.”
  • She wrote her first book, a memoir, Lying: My Russian Affair, after returning from Russia, inspired by her diary entries, which she developed through workshops and classes.
  • Quote:

    “It was an incredible experience publishing, writing and publishing that book and putting it out into the world. But it was also, it made me very vulnerable. Like a memoir is, it’s a lot. Right?” (11:29 - Jennifer Oko)

• Making Room for Creativity:
  Jennifer discusses balancing her documentary film work with creative writing, and the importance of maintaining creative outlets outside her primary profession.

5. Documentary Filmmaking

• Current Projects:
  Jennifer shares that she is finishing a major documentary project on corruption in family court and starting another on undocumented internet migrant laborers who help rebuild after hurricanes.
  (16:14 - Jennifer Oko)

6. Real-Life Inspirations in Just Emilia

• The Ginkgo Tree:
  Zibby asks about a recurring tree in the novel, which Jennifer reveals is based on the troublesome ginkgo tree at her home.
  • Quote:

    “We have one of those ginkgo trees that drops the fruit that has been the bane of my existence since we moved into the house...it’s literally the stuff of nightmares in the book.” (17:25 - Jennifer Oko)

7. Reflections and Takeaways

• Lessons for Readers:
  Jennifer describes how interacting with readers has been moving, especially when people reflect on what they might say to their younger or older selves.
  • Quote:

    “A lot about not being so hard on ourselves, especially from women. That’s a big through line. And I feel like writing the book has actually made me more compassionate for myself.” (18:11 - Jennifer Oko)

• Embracing Change and Compassion:
  Zibby and Jennifer affirm the value of acceptance and self-compassion, particularly for women as they age.

8. Future Projects

• Next Novel in Progress:
  Jennifer’s upcoming work explores Jewish identity, family secrets, and historical intrigue involving the Jewish mafia and the Borscht Belt, set in the 1990s.
  • Working title: “The True Life of Phoebe Weiss.” (19:38 - Jennifer Oko)

9. Advice for Aspiring Writers

• The Irresistible Pull of Storytelling:
  Jennifer recounts meeting a young man at her book launch who wrote games and struggled to keep going creatively.
  • Quote:

    “If we stop telling stories, if we stop engaging in narratives, I think life gets pretty dull... We all tell stories... Whether you are writing the stories or whether you’re just telling your friends what happened to you, it’s really—everybody tells stories.” (21:04 - Jennifer Oko)

  • She encourages writers to focus on the act of storytelling rather than on external approval—“Let them,” referencing Mel Robbins’ advice.

Notable Quotes

• “Who would be the hardest person to be stuck with? And I thought myself probably.”
  — Jennifer Oko (03:37)
• “What happens with our memories, with our guilt, with our experiences as we go on in life.”
  — Jennifer Oko (05:14)
• “I’m very much the kind of writer who writes herself into a corner and then tries to figure out how to write herself out of it.”
  — Jennifer Oko (07:10)
• “We all get in the way of ourselves, right? Writing. And it’s so hard to write and not think about what people are going to think of it. ...Let them. Hope that they hear your message and enjoy it.”
  — Jennifer Oko (21:04)

Timestamps of Major Segments

• 03:28 – Genesis of Just Emilia; elevator inspiration
• 04:30 – Structure of the novel: meeting oneself at multiple ages
• 06:54 – The protagonist's marital storyline and pandemic writing
• 10:40 – Jennifer’s writing beginnings & transition from journalism
• 14:03 – Filmmaking and documentary career
• 17:19 – Ginkgo tree anecdotes and real-life inspiration
• 18:06 – Lessons and themes for readers; self-reflection
• 19:38 – Next novel project: Jewish mafia, Borscht Belt, and secrets
• 21:04 – Writing advice and audience Q&A moment

Memorable Moments

• Jennifer’s humorous aside about her husband’s reaction to the book:

  “My husband is wonderful. When he read the book, he was a little like, totally not you. It’s totally not him.” (07:10)

• The universal problem of the ginkgo tree:

  “If we ever were to sell, we can’t sell in the fall because that’s when the berries start to drop and it’s just horrible.” (17:25)

• Zibby’s suggestion for mother-daughter book clubs inspired by the novel’s multigenerational theme (23:26–23:30).

Conclusion

This episode offers an engaging and thoughtful look into Jennifer Oko’s creative process, the emotional layers of her latest novel Just Emilia, and the broader themes of memory, compassion, and the art of storytelling. Jennifer’s candid reflections make the episode insightful for readers, writers, and anyone interested in the journeys that shape both fiction and real life.