Lake Bell (4:01)

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I love the rainbow behind your head. I like that we're holding this. You know, the other night was the first night that marked my seeing, you know, the physical element. You know, I have all the kind of proofs and everything, so it was quite special to open it up and I haven't shown it to my children yet, so.

Zibby Owens (4:22)

Oh my gosh.

Lake Bell (4:23)

Yeah, the actual, you know, hardcover.

Zibby Owens (4:25)

But so I got, I got to show my kids before you showed your kids Seems wrong. That seems like it shouldn't happen that way.

Lake Bell (4:32)

It happens a lot. You know, we, we have a two home household with my kids, so they were daddy's house and you know, so when they come to my house. But we have like a very like kind of extraordinarily loving co parenting, unusual synergy between our two homes, as it were. But anyway, so yes, this book is wholly inspired by the little children we're talking about right now, which are my daughter Nova and my son Ozzie. I include him in that. Even though this is a book about neurodivergence and neurodiversity. And yet Nova, my daughter has epilepsy and Ozzy has had to live with a sister with epilepsy. So equally, there is a unique experience.

Zibby Owens (5:29)

In their childhood, you know, 100%.

Lake Bell (5:32)

Yeah.

Zibby Owens (5:32)

Well, I have to say I read this to my son who's 10 last night and he, whenever There was a, a word, like, I can't remember which one, where I would say it out loud. And I'm thinking to myself, I wonder if he knows what that is. He would say like, what is such and such? And then you would say, what is such and such in the book? And it was like perfect. Like you read his mind. And then after, we kept going through page by page because you have it that there's a group of kids sitting in a circle and the teacher is sort of facilitating this conversation. Everybody shares what's special and they all have something neurodiversity related to share. So as I went one person to the next, finally my son was like, what are the odds that everyone would have something at the show and tell day?

Lake Bell (6:12)

The odds are pretty high.

Zibby Owens (6:15)

And I was like, well, I don't know, maybe it's a special school. Just go with it, it's fine.

Lake Bell (6:20)

Well, what's interesting about that is that he's making a good observation, which is of course for your listeners. The book does involve a group of children kind of sharing on, on Share Day when you think, sure, you can share your dinosaur that farts, or you could also share something kind of that's experiential, which is, oh, I, I have a thing, you know, I have a unique experience of how I walk through life and how I see the world. And that can be a share as well. And so obviously, you know, as, as I have a household with a, with a daughter with a unique brain. And then my son is, is dabbling with dyslexia, as it were. And I personally have dyslexia and felt it in school and at these ages so much because this is where you are crafting your ability to express yourself and to ingest information. And so it is pivotal to have a pediatric neurodivergence, you know, that that is sometimes hindering and then sometimes really kind of bolstering your ability to do certain things. And so I, I see that in Nova certainly, and I in myself too, because I was dyslexic and I grew up in a really rigorous all girls school that, you know, academics were so, you know, pridefully difficult. And of course it was a time where, you know, if you were dyslexic, you know, you're kind of in. I was literally in something called like the slow class or something like that, you know, like the slow readers.

Zibby Owens (8:12)

Like, I can't believe that that was the way it was back then, you know, I mean, like it wasn't that long ago, right? No.

Lake Bell (8:19)

And I was like, you know, But I remember it so well. I felt so dumb. Honestly, I did. And, you know, I've grown up to become a writer, which is, you know, when I write screenplays or I write, you know, articles or, you know, now books, you know, it's interesting that it. It really forced me to. I move slower in. In how I read, but it means I picture everything. So as a filmmaker, when I'm reading something and I'm writing something, I'm writing it with pictures all over, like just robust, multi dimensional. And so that's just how it shows up for me because I have to move a little slower because, for instance, of just in thinking about spelling and how things are crafted and things like that. So Nova actually, you know, fun fact, and she will share this. She has a cocktail of three of the things that you could tell your son there were. She actually has three things from here. She has adhd, epilepsy, and dyslexia. So she's got a little shaker in her mind.

Zibby Owens (9:31)

We have these scattered. We have some cocktails. I have four kids. I have four kids. There's like, no one gets out on skates, just basically.

Lake Bell (9:40)

Yeah. But it's true that if you're sitting in a group of children in our age and in our ability to decipher and decode and understand the brain better, that, yeah, there is a likelihood there is some shade of anxiety or some kind of diversity from a neurological perspective. And it's like, I look at it because I look around at my friends and I, and when we sit at a round table ourselves as grownups, we all have a sprinkle of something as well.

Zibby Owens (10:11)

A hundred percent. Yes. Actually, my son reading this was like, wait, doesn't everyone have anxiety? I was like, basically. I mean, no, but, you know, and.

Lake Bell (10:22)

Nova also suffers from anxiety, too. But the point is, you know what?

Zibby Owens (10:26)

There is so much comorbidity in all of these. Right. Because when you're going through the world and with essentially, you know, your hands tied behind your back, Right. You're at a disadvantage in some ways. It can be anxiety provoking. And then you end up with that sensor part of your brain being more developed.

Lake Bell (10:43)

Yeah. And I think that my real goal with this was, I remember when Nova was you didn't have to have a formal diagnosis, but certainly because when you have a seizure disorder, you're like, you're having seizures. So there's your diagnosis right in their house. Because epilepsy is just, as we as many know, is just kind of a fancy Word for saying you get seizures in some way, shape or form, and you suffer from a condition where your brain misfires and causes these electrical charges that cause a multitude of different types of seizure activity. Convulsions. Sometimes they can be absent. They kind of look like you're checked out for a beat where your eyes just kind of stop and stare and then come back. So what I really admired in Nova's journey is going from a place where seizures are a big, bad, scary thing that are anxiety causing and helping. I remember Scott and I, my ex and I, when she first fell from her big first seizure, first she had febrile seizures. And just for people to know this. So those are fever seizures and those are pretty common. They're not as extraordinary people, kids who have a spike in fever, it's so scary. And they have a grand mal seizure and they fall over and oh my God. But they grow out of that at six years old usually. And so we were waiting because Nova was someone who got fever seizures and boy, were they just horrific and so scary.

Zibby Owens (12:26)

How did you feel seeing your, your daughter have a seizure?

Lake Bell (12:29)

So I can't explain. I mean only, you know, I have friends who have, you know, there's a community in the, in the epileptic, in parents who have children with epilepsy and whatnot. But thank you for asking that question. It's so traumatizing, I can't even tell you. You feel utterly out of control. I've learned so much about seizures though. And you know, the one thing I can say is that once you understand that the seizure itself is not the monster that is hurting your child, that it's just an occurrence that is happening that's not hurting her or him, that it just needs to get through that wave and on the other side of the wave they're just going to be tired. But the actual seizure itself is not the knife, you know, so once you realize that, your anxiety as a parent can kind of settle because you understand that there's a timestamp, that it's going to happen and then it ends. But there are constant little pockets of ambiguity, right? So if this is the one seizure that's going to go for over two minutes, then you have to administer a drug that's like a Valium, that's an emergency thing that we have in the house that you have to put through the rear. It's like a suppository type thing to get it to stop. Because if it goes up to four minutes, we never had that knock wood. But that's when you're like, for the brain that's too much activity, you need to stop it in its tracks. But with smaller seizures, you don't need to. It's not a problem.

Zibby Owens (14:15)

But it's not like you're turning on the timer on your iPhone, is it? I mean, do you do that now? I mean, no.

Lake Bell (14:22)

Now she's currently in. Let's all knock wood. She's currently seizure free. So she. For the past two years. And this is the other thing about brains, all about brains is that they are wonderfully unpredictable. Like, it's like your brain, my brain, and Nova's brain, who has activity. We could have a picture. We could do an mri and things could look. The MRI could look pretty similar, but our EEGs will look different. So it's interesting, and I speak about this in the book a little bit, that brains themselves, it's not like Nova's brain is blue and sparkly. They all can even in an MRI picture, look similar or so different. And yet you and I kind of. We speak and relate and intellectualize the same way. So when she would fall into seizure, I think the only place where it really changed for me as a parent was when she started having seizures. Where, by the way, just little fun fact. So you've got grand mals, which are the big fancy, big kahunas, where they fall over, they become unconscious and convulse and they can't. Your main job there is just to make sure where they fell. Like, you'd want to make sure that their head didn't hit anything. But there's no. Just to kind of disappear. You don't have to put like a wallet in someone's mouth. That's not a thing. You know, the tongue and all that. It's more about getting them on their side and making sure that their air passage is straight. You're just like, just breathe through it. You know, let them get through it physically and get them on their side. So there was one moment where Nova, I asked Nova, can you hear me when you go under in the station? Can you hear mommy when. Because I started in the beginning, I'd be like, you know, you know, and. And that was initially. And then once she said to me, she goes, yeah, I can. I can hear you sometimes I can hear you. And I was like, oh, okay.

Paige Desorbo (16:32)

Hey.

Lake Bell (16:33)

And so then I thank God I'm an actor. So the next time, you know, I remember there's one time she was in my closet when I had my new way of how I was going to take this on. And she was looking at something. And then she came to me with her eyes like, it's happened. It's coming. The wave is coming. And I. And I was like, okay. And I took her and I held her on her side as she seized. And I was. Colin's a cue. Clever. I was like, you are having sparkles in your brain right now. You're doing great. It's almost done. Yeah, you're doing great, honey. We're almost there. You know, And I held her. And by the way, it was really good for me, too. Good lesson for all of us. And it kept my limbic system, you.

Zibby Owens (17:20)

Know, you just calmed me down. Thank you for that. I'm just going to replay this scene whenever I need.

Lake Bell (17:25)

Exactly when you're supposed to be.

Zibby Owens (17:27)

Yeah.

Lake Bell (17:28)

And then she came out of it and, you know, I had trust in the process and she had trust in the pro, and it was so much better. So she kind of taught me that by saying, like, I can hear you.

Zibby Owens (17:40)

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Lake Bell (22:22)

But really and truly Nova in her. When Scott. So, so when Scott and I started this whole process with her, you know, she was so little, you know, she was one and a half when she had her first seizure, febrile seizure. And you know, we did. Scott was with her for that one and he thought she was passing. Like it was just horrible. You don't coming from. And she's turning blue and you're not able to understand it and it's. You're like, this is it. And. And then as we understood it more, you know, we some. The mom kept yelling for the ambulance every time a grandma would come. But then we started to learn more and then when we were trying to get rid of them, we had to get Nova on big girl medications. And that's hard for a family where you go, gosh, here's a family that's like, is that cabbage organic? And then all of a sudden here's a huge pharmaceutical anti seizure drug that I'm going to give my 5, 6 year old. And we worked with CBD which actually did manage medical grade CBD actually did have extraordinary management in the grand mal seizures, but kept the. But we couldn't get rid of the myoclonic seizures, fancy word for kind of stutter seizures that are more. They would. If I'm talking to you, you right now like that and it would show up in that kind of. You're trying to express yourself, right. So it kept hitting. And also a huge proponent in her anxiety. When you're trying to express yourself as a six year old, you know, and you knew that if you cluster, if you get a cluster of a lot of little ones, then a big kahuna is coming. So then that adds to the anxiety, right? So when we first were talking to Nova about it, she would have a seizure and say there was a certain point in her little epileptic career where she'd say I'm sorry, after she had a seizure. No, no. Because I think the general consensus was like, we're fighting these seizures, we're going to figure it out, we'll get rid of them. And we didn't know any better at that time. We just were, how do we get rid of them? Maybe try this medicine, try that medicine. Right? And when they wouldn't go, she was like, sorry. And that really caused us to reframe. I was like, we need to have a family meeting. And Scott and I came together and we were like, okay. Did some research. And it was thought that Joan of Arc had epilepsy among other people too, like Edgar Allan Poe, but we don't need to talk about him. And also I think Napoleon, but he was really difficult. So the point is, a lot of major leaders and warriors had it. And so I said, what if I'm going to sit her down and I'm going to say, no, here's the deal. Your brain is so unique that it works so hard and has such sparkly magic that it causes these seizures. And you're not alone. I'll tell you who else. And then I started talking about Joan of Arc and. And all these amazing writers and thinkers and leaders, you know, and. And I was like, so when you have seizures, let me know, like, when you feel one of those stutters or whatever, because it just means you're a little smarter today, you know? And I was like, you know, so then it turned into this thing of she would have one and she'd go, mom. Because we'd have to log them. She's like, mom, I just had a seizure. I just had a stutter one. And we called them a mini. I had a mini. And I went, look at you firing on all cylinders today. You're a little bit. Got some sparkle in your step. She was like, you know, it started. And so then I heard her talking to her friends in a shared day. And it was during COVID so they were all on Zoom, and, you know, everyone was sharing things. And because the Epilepsy foundation has these little badges that you get for advocacy and for, you know, teaching about, you know, other kids about seizures and things like that, she wanted to get one of those. And so at share day, she said, well, yes, I have a share, you know, and. And lo and behold, she said, I have epilepsy. And everyone. All the other kids. What's that? You know, she lives. It means I get seizures. And what's a seizure? You know, and the kids this. In this incredible peer to peer conversation happened, and thank God the teacher kind of let it occur, where Nova described that she had these electrical charges in her brain that misfired and caused convulsions. And she's like, it's just kind of like sparkly magic. And everyone has a brain that has unique qualities, but that hers does this thing. And she talked about Joan of Arc, and she talked about how she just had some ownership over it. And it was the first time where I Just, I mean, of course, I was crying in the sidelines. And then, you know, she got her badge and she felt definitely empowered, and her friends were really understanding, asked good questions, and totally unafraid. And I think that there is stigma even today on neurodiversity and different types of conditions that the brain can imbue. And I was very proud of her in that moment. I was proud of the children who were listening. You know, I. And then, you know, it was this kind of share of, you know, one of her friends has dyslexia. And it, you know, I remember the parent being like, well, we don't like.

Zibby Owens (28:31)

To talk about it too much.

Lake Bell (28:32)

We don't want her to think that she had, you know. But the truth is, is like, Nova's went to a school where everyone was neurodiverse and had dyslexia, adhd, and all of them together and dysgraphia and dyscalculia. And I asked that school, actually. I was like, how do you handle that in terms of. There's a fear, I think, as parents, to make your kids feel like they're. You're telling them they have a desert, they have a disability of some sort. You're telling them that they have a disadvantage rather, and, you know, and will that hinder them? You know, and their philosophy was just kind of the opposite. It's like, no, it's just everybody kind of has a thing. You know, lots of people have stuff, and that's okay. You just have to learn how to adapt so that you can do the things you want to do in life. And so, yeah, it's just a fancy word called, you know, dyslexia is just how cool that's for. The scientific positioning we have in our society is that we get to define them and then help diagnose a little, but then also live with it. Like, how do I adjust how I read in order to just read all the books I want to read, but just. I have just, you know, it's like, it allows you to feel in control, to have more understanding about who you are, you know, and how your body works and how your brain works. So I liked it. I felt better, you know, hearing that. Certainly in her learning career, I mean.

Zibby Owens (30:02)

It'S essentially like your parenting strategy became something that she adopted, and then it all became this book. So that. That's like an A plus on the mom day. You do what? I mean, like, you know, you don't. We don't always, like, get it right 100% of the time, but like, moments like that. Now you have it documented.

Lake Bell (30:21)

Totally. And I. I feel, you know, I. I think the. The, like, little lake too, like, you know, wanted this book as a kid, being dyslexic and also being just, like, feeling a little shame around that or something, you know, being. I have a lot of friends who are writers now, and I'm now a voracious reader, you know, but I was really scared to read, like, just books. And I know that's a lot of. You're all you're saying, really. I felt intimidated about it because I was slower. And I felt like, you know, my mom is this extraordinary woman who is so smart and so inspiring on so many levels, and she really shows up. We talk every day. And, you know, she is like an Olympic reader. So she can. When I was growing up, she'd be, you know, War and Peace in an afternoon, really just going through. And I used to ask her, how do you do that? You know, and sure, of course, I was like, my brain just does not work like your brain. She. She's able to kind of like, just fly through. And I just was very aware of it very, very young. And now with my children, especially because my son has his mom's dyslexia, and my daughter has it as well. She's now reading so well and so fast and so enjoying it. But, yeah, I. I try to read with them, but also just around them. Like, I'm just like, I'm reading a book. Like, you're welcome to bring a book in. I was like, I need my reading time so, you know, so that they can just see it.

Zibby Owens (32:06)

I agree. I think that's the most important thing. People are always like, how do I get my kids to read more? And it's like, well, do you read exactly? You know, like, you know, how do they eat healthy food? Well, what do you. You know, it's the same thing. Like, we have to model, impart the things that we really want.

Lake Bell (32:19)

And then it gives. Because I was, see, you know, like, reading all about you. And I was like, then it gives them an opportunity. It gives you an opportunity as parents to just, like, read a book.

Zibby Owens (32:28)

Oh, yeah, I know. I'm so lucky.

Lake Bell (32:32)

Like, I'm reading this book, and then sometimes I'll be like, you know, reading my book, and I'll be like, okay, this is crazy. I cannot believe this woman is doing this. So. Because, you know, because sometimes when you're reading a book, you need to talk to someone. So then I'm like, oh, my God. So in this chapter, like, I'm so frustrated with her. She's making such bad decisions. Well, what is she doing? I'm like, well, first of all, she was dating this guy.

Zibby Owens (32:53)

I am the same exact guy. And I love. Oh, my gosh. I was reading Broken country, which just came out, which is so good. Anyway, there's like, a trial scene, and the verdict was coming, and I was like, my heart was pounding and I couldn't. So I literally gave it to my son, who's like, my one huge reader. And I was like, you have to read it. What's the verdict? I can't. I can't look. And then he read it out loud, and I was like, no.

Lake Bell (33:18)

I love that so much. What's your favorite? Just sidebar. What are you reading in fiction right now that you really love?

Zibby Owens (33:29)

That's one I just finished that I loved. Broken country by Claire Leslie hall and also Wild Dark shore by Charlotte McConaughey. I just finished. They're both. There's some sort of mystery to it. Like you're trying to figure something missing out all along.

Lake Bell (33:46)

Would you mind saying the second one again, please?

Zibby Owens (33:48)

Sure. Wild Dark Shore. And that has, like, an environmental component. It's not something I normally, you know, like, oh, it's an abandoned island in the middle of nowhere with an environmental spin. And it's kind of slow start, but, man, I was like, flipping those pages.

Lake Bell (34:03)

Did you read Bright Objects?

Zibby Owens (34:05)

No, I did not.

Lake Bell (34:07)

Ruvy Todd. I thought that was wild. And I just, you know, just like female fiction. And then I did Long Island Compromise. Cgv.

Zibby Owens (34:15)

Oh, I love that. I love that. That was dark. Very dark. But yeah, I know.

Lake Bell (34:20)

But yeah. Okay, cool. So I will thank you for the sidebar.

Zibby Owens (34:25)

Thank you for the sidebar. That was great.

Lake Bell (34:28)

Yeah. This is really interesting. I'm so excited to take this book to. To, like, you know, I'm interested to see how it plays in. In schools and stuff, you know, because.

Zibby Owens (34:39)

I think, yeah, it's going to be great. Like, I'm going to give this to all the kids schools, like they should. Everybody should know and learn it early. Then you're just like, oh, yeah, okay. So then when you see it in seventh grade, it's like, not that big a deal as opposed to absolutely the lack of knowledge.

Lake Bell (34:54)

I did also feel like in making the book, I wanted to make sure that it felt it wasn't like, some bunnies are different. You know, it's like I wanted to be like, no, there's these kids, and they're really kids and they really have the. The real word is, you know, autism. You know, the real word is dyslexia or whatever. Adhd. Let's talk about it. And let's, let's acknowledge that there's a lot of super high functioning and magical people who imbue the same diversities.

Zibby Owens (35:29)

And, and P.S. this isn't only good for kids. Like, there are a lot of grownups who can use this.

Lake Bell (35:34)

I know.

Zibby Owens (35:34)

So. And I can think of a few. So, I mean, that's why it's a.

Lake Bell (35:39)

Good, I guess, like, read it to your kid kind of thing, you know. And, and, and yeah, I do have just. I'm excited. I'm excited about it and I feel like Nova, who's gonna come with me to some of the press hits on, will be able to be proud to, to sort of speak her truth and stuff.

Zibby Owens (35:58)

Oh, what? You should do a story time at my bookstore. Aren't you in la?

Lake Bell (36:01)

I'm. Well, I'm coming to New York. You're in New York, right?

Zibby Owens (36:04)

I'm in New York now, but my bookstore is in la.

Lake Bell (36:06)

Oh, yes.

Zibby Owens (36:07)

Add to that Santa Monica. Okay.

Lake Bell (36:09)

Yeah, I would love that. And you know, we inova can join, but I will also be in New York, just FYI. I'll be shooting an HBO series there for like three bucks.

Zibby Owens (36:18)

Oh, amazing.

Lake Bell (36:19)

Yeah. So if there's any like, fun bookie.

Zibby Owens (36:22)

Oh, yeah, let's do something in New York. That'd be great.

Lake Bell (36:24)

Well, thank you so much.

Zibby Owens (36:25)

Okay. Thank you.

Lake Bell (36:26)

Anything else I should say for the.

Zibby Owens (36:28)

No. This was amazing. The book is amazing and all about brains. A book about people. Really awesome. Congratulations.

Lake Bell (36:36)

Thank you.

Zibby Owens (36:37)

Loved it. And more to come.

Lake Bell (36:39)

I want to be part of your book club.

Zibby Owens (36:41)

Oh, be part of my book club. So nice to meet you. Okay. All right, take care. Bye. Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have Time to Read books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram Iby Owens and just spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.

Paige Desorbo (37:09)

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