Podcast Summary

Podcast: Totally Booked with Zibby
Episode: Leigh Bardugo and John Picacio, THE INVISIBLE PARADE
Date: January 12, 2026
Host: Zibby Owens
Guests: Leigh Bardugo (author), John Picacio (illustrator)
Book Discussed: The Invisible Parade

Episode Overview

In this episode, Zibby Owens hosts bestselling author Leigh Bardugo and acclaimed illustrator John Picacio to discuss their collaborative work, The Invisible Parade. The conversation traces the book’s origins, its unique approach to grief and memory, the synergy between words and art, and the deeply personal and cultural influences underpinning the project. Together, they explore how this genre-blending picture book resonates with both children and adults by confronting themes of death, remembrance, and finding joy in connection.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Origin of Collaboration

First Meeting and Mutual Respect (04:52 – 07:23):
- Bardugo recounts meeting Picacio for the first time at a George R. R. Martin fan party during WorldCon in Reno. She was just an unpublished fan, and Picacio was already well-known.
  - “He really treated me as a peer as opposed to a nobody, and that made a huge impression on me about the right way to behave as a person in the literary world and how much that kindness means.” — Leigh Bardugo (05:56)
- Picacio highlights Bardugo’s “electric” presence and how their connection led to a sustained friendship.
  - “She was electric, and I just enjoyed… I was enjoying her more than my company that I had at the time, honestly.” — John Picacio (06:59)
Genesis of The Invisible Parade (07:23 – 09:44):
- The idea to collaborate arose years later. Picacio pitched Bardugo on doing “a story that’s like The Wizard of Oz in a graveyard.”
- Bardugo admits initial wariness about joint projects, but the concept interested her, especially as Picacio envisioned a narrative that evolved in her hands.
- The story began as a girl “trying to overcome the fear of death” and transformed into a tale about “how we process grief,” inspired by Bardugo’s own experiences with loss.
  - “When Leigh gets a hold of it… it becomes a story about how we process grief, which is far more Mexican… that came from Leigh.” — John Picacio (09:31)

Writing About Grief for Kids and Adults

Crossover Audience and Purpose (11:56 – 13:28):
- Bardugo emphasizes how stories “tell you what they want to be,” and The Invisible Parade naturally addresses both adults and children on processing loss.
- She recalls her father’s passing and the daunting “silence” after initial condolences—a feeling that inspired the narrative.
  - “When somebody dies, there's all this noise…then all of a sudden, it goes so quiet. And so we started thinking about what that silence would mean for a kid…” — Leigh Bardugo (12:23)
- The book aims to open a gentler, more adventurous conversation about grief, rather than a strictly philosophical or didactic one.
Adventure and Emotional “Toolkit” (13:28 – 14:45):
- Picacio reiterates the duo wrote a story not only for young readers, but also for themselves as adults grappling with family mortality.
- He frames the book as a “toolkit” for processing the complexities of grief—something he wanted to offer to his own daughter.

Artistic Vision & Emotional Journey

The Importance of Color and Design (18:09 – 20:57):
- Picacio and Bardugo discuss how color palettes and visual symbolism trace the protagonist Kala’s emotional arc—from numbness (sepia tones) to catharsis (explosions of technicolor).
  - “If you strip away all that stuff and just look at the color palette…the story tells you Kala's emotional journey.” — John Picacio (19:38)
- Bardugo describes how the book’s central “gatefold” illustration marks Kala’s transition from grief toward joy and reconnection.
  - “That was the anchor of the entire book…this was the moment of catharsis.” — Leigh Bardugo (21:00)
Reimagining Iconography (18:16; 21:38 – 22:51):
- The Four Horsemen in the story serve as non-traditional guides—blending Mexican cultural motifs with universal fears and lessons, serving multiple narrative layers for readers of all ages.
- The intention was to reflect how children and adults can both face fears, not just of death but of loss and hunger, and how stories can aid in this.
Personal and Cultural Resonance (22:51 – 24:52):
- Bardugo shares how a friend invited her to a Dia de Muertos celebration amid her grief, introducing her to a different mode of remembrance.
  - “It was like she was throwing me a lifeline and inviting me into this space and a very different way of looking at death.” — Leigh Bardugo (23:16)
- The story fuses personal experience with tradition, while simultaneously inviting all readers—regardless of heritage—into communal commemoration and shared humanity.

The Book’s Impact and Memorable Moments

Reader Reactions & Universal Need (25:38 – 26:31):
- Picacio describes a poignant response from a reader who purchased the book to honor their mother’s memory on the anniversary of her death:
  - “He says, ‘I'm crying, but I just wanted to let you know that this…was what I was saving this book for.’” — John Picacio (25:41)
- Both creators note the dearth of stories that address grief honestly and lovingly, and The Invisible Parade fills this gap.
Enduring Grief and the Stories We Tell (26:31 – 28:14):
- Bardugo relates how grief is ongoing and unpredictable, and how the metaphor of sharing unfinished stories with departed loved ones lies at the book’s core.
  - “Grief is the dirty fighter…you think you've knocked it out…then all of a sudden, you're crying in a Panda Express parking lot.” — Leigh Bardugo (26:33)
- Zibby and the guests swap moving anecdotes about the meals they would make for their lost loved ones, echoing the tradition of ofrendas and keeping memories alive through food.
  - “That is the cake that would bring him back from the beyond.” — Leigh Bardugo (fruitcake for her father, 28:24)
  - “Pork tamales, chili pequins…those were his jams.” — John Picacio (29:07)
  - “He was a meatloaf, mashed potatoes, root beer float kind of guy…” — Zibby Owens (29:49)

Closing Thoughts

Future Collaborations (30:30 – 30:55):
- Both creators express intent to work together again, though currently focusing on promoting The Invisible Parade and individual projects.
The Power of Everyday Kindness (30:55 – 31:37):
- Zibby highlights how their partnership began with a simple gesture of kindness and how such moments can yield lasting, meaningful creative connections.
  - “We all have those opportunities every day to be nice and generous…as soon as you open the door, like great things happen even ten years later.” — Zibby Owens (31:00)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

“He really treated me as a peer as opposed to a nobody…that made a huge impression on me about the right way to behave as a person in the literary world...” — Leigh Bardugo (05:56)
“I want to be with someone I laugh with. I want to be with someone I trust…and she was the one.” — John Picacio (07:23)
“The story becomes more profoundly personal and culturally resonant…That came from Leigh.” — John Picacio (09:44)
“When somebody dies, there's all this noise…then all of a sudden, it goes so quiet.” — Leigh Bardugo (12:23)
“If you strip away all that stuff and just look at the color palette…the story tells you Kala's emotional journey.” — John Picacio (19:38)
“It was like she was throwing me a lifeline and inviting me into this space and a very different way of looking at death.” — Leigh Bardugo (23:16)
“Grief is the dirty fighter…you think you've knocked it out…then all of a sudden, you're crying in a Panda Express parking lot.” — Leigh Bardugo (26:33)
“That is the cake that would bring him back from the beyond.” — Leigh Bardugo (fruitcake for her dad, 28:24)
“He was a meatloaf, mashed potatoes, root beer float kind of guy…” — Zibby Owens (29:49)

Important Segments & Timestamps

Intro/Guest Bios (03:20 – 04:39)
How Bardugo & Picacio Met (04:52 – 06:31)
Genesis & Development of Collaboration (07:23 – 09:44)
Unique Approach to Grief (10:49 – 14:45)
Artistry: Color and Thematic Design (18:09 – 22:08)
Cultural Bridges and Personal Influence (22:51 – 24:52)
Memorable Reader Impact & Ritual of Remembrance (25:38 – 28:14)
Traditions: Meals for Lost Loved Ones (28:14 – 30:30)
Future Collaboration & The Power of Kindness (30:55 – 31:37)

Tone and Style

The conversation is heartfelt, candid, and marked by humor and warmth, embodying the same blend of honesty, adventure, and emotional resonance that characterizes The Invisible Parade itself. Both Bardugo and Picacio freely share personal anecdotes, inviting listeners into their creative process and their ongoing journeys with grief, remembrance, and storytelling. Zibby’s hosting is empathetic and engaging, drawing out both the serious and joyful aspects of collaboration and connection.

Final Thoughts

The Invisible Parade emerges as a singular work that bridges generations and cultures, offers new language for grief, and celebrates the possibilities of connection—both on the page and between creators. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in how art and storytelling can heal, comfort, and unite.

Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Origin of Collaboration

First Meeting and Mutual Respect (04:52 – 07:23):
- Bardugo recounts meeting Picacio for the first time at a George R. R. Martin fan party during WorldCon in Reno. She was just an unpublished fan, and Picacio was already well-known.
  - “He really treated me as a peer as opposed to a nobody, and that made a huge impression on me about the right way to behave as a person in the literary world and how much that kindness means.” — Leigh Bardugo (05:56)
- Picacio highlights Bardugo’s “electric” presence and how their connection led to a sustained friendship.
  - “She was electric, and I just enjoyed… I was enjoying her more than my company that I had at the time, honestly.” — John Picacio (06:59)
Genesis of The Invisible Parade (07:23 – 09:44):
- The idea to collaborate arose years later. Picacio pitched Bardugo on doing “a story that’s like The Wizard of Oz in a graveyard.”
- Bardugo admits initial wariness about joint projects, but the concept interested her, especially as Picacio envisioned a narrative that evolved in her hands.
- The story began as a girl “trying to overcome the fear of death” and transformed into a tale about “how we process grief,” inspired by Bardugo’s own experiences with loss.
  - “When Leigh gets a hold of it… it becomes a story about how we process grief, which is far more Mexican… that came from Leigh.” — John Picacio (09:31)

Writing About Grief for Kids and Adults

Crossover Audience and Purpose (11:56 – 13:28):
- Bardugo emphasizes how stories “tell you what they want to be,” and The Invisible Parade naturally addresses both adults and children on processing loss.
- She recalls her father’s passing and the daunting “silence” after initial condolences—a feeling that inspired the narrative.
  - “When somebody dies, there's all this noise…then all of a sudden, it goes so quiet. And so we started thinking about what that silence would mean for a kid…” — Leigh Bardugo (12:23)
- The book aims to open a gentler, more adventurous conversation about grief, rather than a strictly philosophical or didactic one.
Adventure and Emotional “Toolkit” (13:28 – 14:45):
- Picacio reiterates the duo wrote a story not only for young readers, but also for themselves as adults grappling with family mortality.
- He frames the book as a “toolkit” for processing the complexities of grief—something he wanted to offer to his own daughter.

Artistic Vision & Emotional Journey

The Importance of Color and Design (18:09 – 20:57):
- Picacio and Bardugo discuss how color palettes and visual symbolism trace the protagonist Kala’s emotional arc—from numbness (sepia tones) to catharsis (explosions of technicolor).
  - “If you strip away all that stuff and just look at the color palette…the story tells you Kala's emotional journey.” — John Picacio (19:38)
- Bardugo describes how the book’s central “gatefold” illustration marks Kala’s transition from grief toward joy and reconnection.
  - “That was the anchor of the entire book…this was the moment of catharsis.” — Leigh Bardugo (21:00)
Reimagining Iconography (18:16; 21:38 – 22:51):
- The Four Horsemen in the story serve as non-traditional guides—blending Mexican cultural motifs with universal fears and lessons, serving multiple narrative layers for readers of all ages.
- The intention was to reflect how children and adults can both face fears, not just of death but of loss and hunger, and how stories can aid in this.
Personal and Cultural Resonance (22:51 – 24:52):
- Bardugo shares how a friend invited her to a Dia de Muertos celebration amid her grief, introducing her to a different mode of remembrance.
  - “It was like she was throwing me a lifeline and inviting me into this space and a very different way of looking at death.” — Leigh Bardugo (23:16)
- The story fuses personal experience with tradition, while simultaneously inviting all readers—regardless of heritage—into communal commemoration and shared humanity.

The Book’s Impact and Memorable Moments

Reader Reactions & Universal Need (25:38 – 26:31):
- Picacio describes a poignant response from a reader who purchased the book to honor their mother’s memory on the anniversary of her death:
  - “He says, ‘I'm crying, but I just wanted to let you know that this…was what I was saving this book for.’” — John Picacio (25:41)
- Both creators note the dearth of stories that address grief honestly and lovingly, and The Invisible Parade fills this gap.
Enduring Grief and the Stories We Tell (26:31 – 28:14):
- Bardugo relates how grief is ongoing and unpredictable, and how the metaphor of sharing unfinished stories with departed loved ones lies at the book’s core.
  - “Grief is the dirty fighter…you think you've knocked it out…then all of a sudden, you're crying in a Panda Express parking lot.” — Leigh Bardugo (26:33)
- Zibby and the guests swap moving anecdotes about the meals they would make for their lost loved ones, echoing the tradition of ofrendas and keeping memories alive through food.
  - “That is the cake that would bring him back from the beyond.” — Leigh Bardugo (fruitcake for her father, 28:24)
  - “Pork tamales, chili pequins…those were his jams.” — John Picacio (29:07)
  - “He was a meatloaf, mashed potatoes, root beer float kind of guy…” — Zibby Owens (29:49)

Closing Thoughts

Future Collaborations (30:30 – 30:55):
- Both creators express intent to work together again, though currently focusing on promoting The Invisible Parade and individual projects.
The Power of Everyday Kindness (30:55 – 31:37):
- Zibby highlights how their partnership began with a simple gesture of kindness and how such moments can yield lasting, meaningful creative connections.
  - “We all have those opportunities every day to be nice and generous…as soon as you open the door, like great things happen even ten years later.” — Zibby Owens (31:00)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

“He really treated me as a peer as opposed to a nobody…that made a huge impression on me about the right way to behave as a person in the literary world...” — Leigh Bardugo (05:56)
“I want to be with someone I laugh with. I want to be with someone I trust…and she was the one.” — John Picacio (07:23)
“The story becomes more profoundly personal and culturally resonant…That came from Leigh.” — John Picacio (09:44)
“When somebody dies, there's all this noise…then all of a sudden, it goes so quiet.” — Leigh Bardugo (12:23)
“If you strip away all that stuff and just look at the color palette…the story tells you Kala's emotional journey.” — John Picacio (19:38)
“It was like she was throwing me a lifeline and inviting me into this space and a very different way of looking at death.” — Leigh Bardugo (23:16)
“Grief is the dirty fighter…you think you've knocked it out…then all of a sudden, you're crying in a Panda Express parking lot.” — Leigh Bardugo (26:33)
“That is the cake that would bring him back from the beyond.” — Leigh Bardugo (fruitcake for her dad, 28:24)
“He was a meatloaf, mashed potatoes, root beer float kind of guy…” — Zibby Owens (29:49)

Important Segments & Timestamps

Intro/Guest Bios (03:20 – 04:39)
How Bardugo & Picacio Met (04:52 – 06:31)
Genesis & Development of Collaboration (07:23 – 09:44)
Unique Approach to Grief (10:49 – 14:45)
Artistry: Color and Thematic Design (18:09 – 22:08)
Cultural Bridges and Personal Influence (22:51 – 24:52)
Memorable Reader Impact & Ritual of Remembrance (25:38 – 28:14)
Traditions: Meals for Lost Loved Ones (28:14 – 30:30)
Future Collaboration & The Power of Kindness (30:55 – 31:37)

wavePod

Leigh Bardugo and John Picacio, THE INVISIBLE PARADE

Summary

Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Origin of Collaboration

Writing About Grief for Kids and Adults

Artistic Vision & Emotional Journey

The Book’s Impact and Memorable Moments

Closing Thoughts

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

Important Segments & Timestamps

Tone and Style

Final Thoughts

Transcript

Summary

Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Origin of Collaboration

Writing About Grief for Kids and Adults

Artistic Vision & Emotional Journey

The Book’s Impact and Memorable Moments

Closing Thoughts

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

Important Segments & Timestamps

Tone and Style

Final Thoughts