Podcast Summary: Totally Booked with Zibby
Episode: “Midlife Reinvention Mixed with ‘90s Princeton University—and Running”
Host: Zibby Owens
Guests: Ali Frank & Asha Youmans
Date: March 12, 2026
Location: Recorded live at the Whitby Hotel
Overview
In this engaging live episode, Zibby Owens sits down with acclaimed co-authors Ali Frank and Asha Youmans to discuss their latest novel, Run for Your Life Callie Kingman. Their conversation explores midlife reinvention, the complexities of Gen X womanhood, interracial and cross-cultural relationships, and the realities (and humor) of collaborative writing. The episode is packed with laughter, candid reflections, memorable stories, and insights both on the writing process and about embracing change in life.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. About the Book: Run for Your Life Callie Kingman
- Premise & Themes ([05:09], [06:47]):
- A love letter to Gen X women.
- Follows Callie Kingman, a scholar who falls in love in the ‘90s at Princeton, later marries someone else and moves to Sacramento, feeling stifled and unfulfilled.
- A health scare prompts Callie to join a running club, setting her on a journey of community and self-rediscovery.
- The book is told in a dual timeline: ‘90s Princeton campus and present-day Sacramento.
- Explores themes of first love, midlife transformation, the rural/urban divide, interracial relationships, and the “comeback” after feeling lost.
“It is a story of a young scholar who meets the love of her life in college... finds a new man, follows him to Sacramento—what she feels is the dullest city in America... And after a health scare joins a running club, finds her community, changes her life, rediscovers herself and it's a beautiful story about her comeback.”
—Asha Youmans [05:09]
2. Setting and Reception ([06:13], [06:17]):
- Sacramento is humorously cast as a "dull city," which drew some defensive readers, particularly from California.
“We have a few defensive readers on Amazon and Goodreads. We have been unwelcomed to the entire state of California.”
—Ali Frank & Asha Youmans [06:17]
3. Interracial and Cross-Cultural Relationships ([07:42], [09:29]):
- The book’s central romance is not only interracial but also highlights a rural-urban divide (Porter from rural North Carolina, Callie from NYC).
- The authors delve into societal challenges, familial resistance, and characters' navigation between worlds.
- Memorable in-law character, Delsey Beaumont, and her complex response to her son's relationship.
“We wanted to explore not just the differences between an interracial relationship in the '90s... but something in America that we're still not really comfortable talking about is the differences between rural America and urban America.”
—Ali Frank [07:42]
“Delsey Beaumont lets it be known that, you know, this is still my son. You know, you won't have him unless he makes you a wife. And the look she kind of gives and the vibe she gives to Callie is that Callie will never occupy that spot.”
—Asha Youmans [09:29]
4. The Authors’ Writing Partnership ([11:01], [12:44]):
- Ali and Asha joke about their “writing marriage”—a long-standing partnership between black and white co-authors.
- They met at The Bearchi School in Seattle; Ali was assistant head, Asha was a pre-K teacher.
- Began writing together after decompressing from admissions work, leading to their first novel, Tiny Imperfections.
“We started writing together in 2017... we met working at an independent school in Seattle, Washington... from those stories and just decompressing... we ultimately came together to write our first book, Tiny Imperfections.”
—Ali Frank [11:01]
- Their partnership pivoted through different life stages and locations, adjusting their process with each new book.
5. Writing about Difficult Topics with Humor ([14:08], [14:51]):
- After the racial awakening of 2020, Ali and Asha committed to tackling difficult issues (race, religion, privilege, parenting) with humor and heart, preferring to “laugh and learn” instead of “cry and learn.”
- They jokingly call themselves the “Will and Grace of race.”
“Asha and I really believed that you can just as easily learn about people who are different than you through humor and comedy and laughter... We dubbed ourselves the Will and Grace of race.”
—Ali Frank [14:08], [15:24]
6. Midlife & Gen X Women: Representation and Real Talk ([20:42], [21:09], [21:56]):
- The novel is set in the Gen X experience, especially early ‘90s college campuses, but resonates beyond: readers from younger and older generations identify with its themes.
- Discussion of Gen X women’s contradictions: urged by their mothers to seize new opportunities but still pressured to “have it all” (successful careers, marriages, motherhood, maintaining beauty and fitness).
“We had mothers who really were champions of us going off... because they didn't have those same opportunities. But at the same time, they wanted validation for how they had lived their lives... so they also wanted to make sure that... we were the ones taking care of the children.”
—Ali Frank [21:56]
“Remember the Anjou Lis commercial? I can bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan. Well, no, I can do one or the other. I’m not doing both.”
—Asha Youmans [22:38]
7. Collaborative Writing: The Mechanics and Magic ([23:38], [25:12], [26:10]):
- Their process involves playing to each other’s strengths: Asha writes longhand with notebooks everywhere, Ali is more tech-savvy and manages the story’s structure.
- They leapfrog chapters, then spend 6–8 rounds reading the manuscript aloud—Asha as the dramatic reader, Ali at the keyboard—fine-tuning every detail, especially for authenticity and tone.
- Key: Both must defend every sentence, especially on sensitive or “spicy” topics, ensuring mutual comfort regardless of the character’s background.
“We probably spend six to eight times reading the book out loud. So Asha’s an unbelievable actor, and so she is the reader, and as we say, she’s the diva. I’m the accountant... we have to make sure we agree on every comma, every adjective, everything we put in there.”
—Ali Frank [26:10]
8. Taking a Stand in the Industry ([28:12]):
- They declined a TV/film deal because the studio refused to give them a title card (on-screen credit), standing firm on acknowledgment for their work.
“We got everything else we wanted, but that one thing that did not cost a dime, they would not bend on.”
—Ali Frank [28:33]
9. On Running—Literally and Metaphorically ([30:49], [31:11]):
- Allie is the athlete (runner, former ski champion, rodeo queen!), while Asha is a reluctant runner, only running “if there’s a large dog chasing me.”
- Their contrasting attitudes toward running influenced the way they wrote Callie’s running journey in the novel.
10. Advice for Aspiring Co-Authors ([31:44], [31:58], [34:33]):
- The partnership was serendipitous—what worked for Ali and Asha may not for everyone, but trust and complementary strengths are key.
- For aspiring co-authors: be prepared to put the project ahead of your ego; be willing to risk the friendship if that’s necessary.
- For all writers: “Just start.” Skip the over-prep. Like running, progress comes from doing, not just preparing.
“Have you sat your ass in the seat and started writing? ...All those things are great but they don’t actually move the ball forward... So just start doing it.”
—Ali Frank [34:33]
“You have to be willing to maybe lose a friendship, and if you're not willing to lose a friendship, don't write with a close friend. It can be tough, but I have become... part of her family over these years.”
—Asha Youmans [34:33]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “We are the longest standing black and white co-authorship in publishing.”
—Ali Frank [11:04] - “Why is my husband’s job and what he wants to do determining my whole life? That, I think, is not as prevalent now.”
—Ali Frank [23:18] - “If we ever did [fight], I would win every time.”
—Asha Youmans [23:58] - “It was a very good year.”
—Asha Youmans, on living in 1994 (re: writing by hand) [26:06] - “If you write for yourself for the love of writing, great. If you write because you’re going to change careers, make sure you have a little savings under your belt. It is a privilege that I recognize that I can write full time.”
—Asha Youmans [35:36] - “She closed down the Bat Mitzvah with getting up and reciting Maya Angelou’s Phenomenal Woman. It was awesome.”
—Ali Frank [35:15]
Timestamps for Important Segments
- 05:09 – Book summary and themes: Callie’s journey, Gen X love letter
- 06:47 – Dual timeline structure (Princeton ‘90s & Sacramento now)
- 07:42 – Interracial and rural-urban relationship dynamics
- 09:29 – In-law dynamics: Delsey Beaumont and family tension
- 11:01 – How Ali and Asha met and began writing together
- 14:08 / 15:24 – Commitment to humor and “Will and Grace of race”
- 20:42 – 23:38 – Gen X women: generational expectations and midlife issues
- 25:12 / 26:10 – Writing process: leapfrogging chapters, reading aloud, collaboration
- 28:12 – Walking away from a TV deal (refusing credit)
- 30:49 / 31:11 – Who’s the runner? (Allie vs. Asha)
- 31:44 – 35:36 – Advice for co-authors and aspiring writers
Final Thoughts
The episode is a vibrant, insightful, and humorous reflection on friendship, creative partnership, reinvention, and the generational experience of women. It’s a must-listen for fans of contemporary fiction, women’s stories, and anyone curious about the realities of co-authorship.
“Figure out why you're doing it. If you write for yourself, for the love of writing, great... but choose your reason why and stick with it.”
—Asha Youmans [35:36]
For more on Totally Booked with Zibby, visit zibbymedia.com.