Podcast Summary: Totally Booked with Zibby – Nicole Madigan, TORN: Four Women's Stories of Why They Left – or Why They Stayed

Episode Date: September 29, 2025
Host: Zibby Owens
Guest: Nicole Madigan
Episode Focus: Nicole Madigan’s new book, TORN: Four Women's Stories of Why They Left – or Why They Stayed
Podcast Tone: Compassionate, introspective, supportive, and candid

Main Theme & Purpose

Zibby Owens sits down with Nicole Madigan to discuss TORN, a deep and empathetic exploration of the agonizing indecision women face in long-term relationships after betrayal, deception, or disappointment. The episode unpacks the psychological, emotional, and societal pressures behind the pivotal choice to stay or leave—and why so many women find themselves trapped in a painful liminal state.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Nicole Wrote TORN

• Nicole explains that the book centers on "that period of time in a long-term relationship between when we first sort of get that little feeling... usually as a result of some sort of betrayal... and when we decide whether or not we can live with what's happened and we stay in that relationship or we leave" (03:58).
• She describes this “middle period of indecision” as incredibly painful and isolating.

2. The Personal Backstory

• Nicole shares her own journey through marital dissolution, highlighting how childhood ideals clashed with adult realities.
  • “I had all these sort of ideas in my mind... If someone cheated on me, I would leave...but it took me years before I decided to leave that relationship.” (07:07)
• Her experiences motivated her journalistic quest to find out if others shared this protracted indecision and emotional struggle, leading to TORN.

3. Emotional Barriers and Societal Expectations

• Zibby and Nicole discuss the instinct to conceal relationship struggles for fear of judgment and the desire for stability:
  • ”You don't want people to think badly of your partner so you don't tell anyone, but by not telling anyone, you're not getting to sort of get a realistic viewpoint or get those feelings off your chest and... you're not at peace.” —Nicole (04:56)
  • “It's calming to have things the same... We want that, but yet it doesn't always work out that way.” —Zibby (05:33)

4. Selection of Stories

• Nicole was intentional in presenting diversity—in age, background, situation—among the four women profiled:
  • “I wanted to explore different ages and different generations and also different reasons for that feeling of indecision.” (10:24)
  • Focused on betrayals—infidelity, substance misuse, gambling—to examine how breaking trust shapes decisions.

5. Shame and Secrecy

• Both host and guest underscore shame as a central, corrosive force:
  • “There's shame in leaving...the shame of having to spill the beans...but then there's the shame in allowing certain things to happen and not knowing what you're supposed to... the shame and secrets themselves are so corrosive.” —Zibby (16:08)
  • Nicole echoes this: “It's not your fault if somebody lets you down...but we do tend to blame ourselves. And I think the more we share, the more that shame gets taken away.” (16:57)

6. On Trusting Nicole with Vulnerabilities

• Nicole reflects on how the women in her book found a sense of freedom and solidarity in confession:
  • “It's just amazing how willing they are to share what they've been going through. I think it can be really freeing...” (12:24)

7. Career and Journalistic Background

• Nicole details her progression from local newspapers to investigative journalism focused on women’s issues and domestic violence advocacy, culminating in authorship on stalking (Obsession) and now TORN (18:59).

8. Reception, Distribution, and Next Steps

• The book’s print, eBook, and upcoming audiobook versions are discussed. Zibby expresses enthusiasm about recommending and positioning TORN for wider US distribution (20:56).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the experience of indecision:
  “That kind of limbo purgatory period where you're just—not at peace...in a state of turmoil all the time.” —Nicole (04:56)

• On universality of these struggles:
  “You can feel just as strongly about leaving as you do about staying...that's normal, I guess. I wanted to show people that these experiences were universal.” —Nicole (12:24)

• On the lasting impact of shame:
  “Even the language that you tend to use, like, I couldn’t believe, you know, I got it wrong. But it’s not really that…We do tend to blame ourselves.” —Nicole (16:57)

• Zibby's admiration for Nicole’s work:
  “I really love this book and I’ve already recommended it to so many people.” —Zibby (21:06)

Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------| | 03:34 | Zibby welcomes Nicole and expresses her excitement about TORN | | 03:58 | Nicole summarizes the book's core: the painful limbo between betrayal and decision | | 07:07 | Nicole shares her personal marital backstory, setting up the book’s context | | 10:24 | Discussion of the diverse four women’s stories and their selection | | 12:24 | On the freeing aspect of sharing and the women’s vulnerability in the book | | 16:08 | Zibby and Nicole discuss shame and secrecy in relationships | | 16:57 | Nicole on how sharing reduces shame and self-blame | | 18:59 | Nicole’s career path in journalism and women’s issues | | 20:56 | Book reception in Australia and US, plans for wider distribution | | 21:06 | Zibby's praise and recommendation for the book |

Episode Takeaways

• TORN illuminates a nearly universal, yet rarely discussed, emotional struggle among women: the period of confusion after betrayal, made all the more difficult by societal pressures, fear, and shame.
• The episode highlights the value of openness in destigmatizing personal crisis, and the power of storytelling for solidarity and healing.
• Nicole's journalistic rigor paired with deep empathy makes TORN both an act of advocacy and a practical companion for anyone navigating turbulent relational waters.

For listeners who haven’t heard the episode:
This conversation is a thoughtful, deeply human look at why leaving or staying in a relationship after a breach of trust is so complex—and why women owe themselves compassion for grappling with those decisions. Nicole Madigan’s book and her own journey offer validation and hope for those feeling “torn.”