Penn and Kim Holderness, ALL YOU CAN BE WITH ADHD

Summary

Totally Booked with Zibby:

Penn and Kim Holderness, ALL YOU CAN BE WITH ADHD
November 28, 2025

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Episode Overview

This special live episode features Penn and Kim Holderness, creators, authors, and viral video stars, celebrating the release of their new children’s book, All You Can Be with ADHD. Stepping in for host Zibby Owens, Emma Rosenblum leads a warm and candid discussion. The conversation dives into why Penn and Kim wrote a kid-focused ADHD book, their creative process, personal experiences with ADHD, and their hopes for how the book will help families and schools foster understanding and confidence in neurodiverse kids.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reading from the Book & Its Purpose

• [04:36] Kim opens by reading aloud from All You Can Be with ADHD, inviting kids to a “clubhouse” for those with ADHD—affirming belonging, adventure, and the idea of “secret powers.”
  • “If your brain’s like ours, you don’t know it yet, but you have secret powers.” (Kim Holderness, [05:41])
• The book is aimed at making children feel part of a cool, supportive club—counteracting feelings of exclusion common among kids with ADHD.

2. Why a Children’s ADHD Book?

• [06:41] Penn recounts the success of their adult ADHD book and feedback from families who wished for a resource for younger readers.
  • Realized during book tours: “These 8-year-olds were trying so hard to read it because they wanted to learn about their brain... We're so dumb. We should've started with a kid's book.” (Penn Holderness, [07:09])
• Emphasizes the rising early diagnosis rate and the lack of accessible, positive resources for children.

3. Personal Connection to ADHD

• [07:52] Kim shares the emotional inspiration behind the book, reflecting on her childhood confusion and isolation due to undiagnosed ADHD.
  • “If that little kid had any idea what was going on, the playground would have been a little bit easier. The classroom would have been a little easier. The times when he felt overwhelmed would have been a whole lot easier.” (Kim Holderness, [08:05])
• Both stress the power of naming and understanding one's neurodiversity for kids and their classmates.
  • “Just having a name for something and understanding why something is happening in your body and brain is so powerful.” (Penn Holderness, [08:43])

4. Dreams for the Book’s Impact

• [09:52] Kim expresses her hopes: children will see themselves in the book, gain confidence and self-awareness, and feel less ashamed or alone.
• Teachers and neurotypical classmates can learn empathy and awareness from shared reading experiences.

5. On Becoming Authors & the Creative Process

• [10:58] Penn and Kim talk about their lifelong love for storytelling, but admit children’s books are harder than they look.
• [12:06] Kim gives an honest (and humorous) breakdown of ADHD’s role in their writing:
  • Explains the distinction between “fixation” and “hyperfocus.”
  • First draft written in a three-hour burst due to “hyperfocus.”
  • “You could have driven a truck through my office when I was writing the book. It was one of the most spontaneous, creative, inspirational moments I’ve ever had in my life.” (Kim Holderness, [13:32])
• Acknowledges the collaborative editing and illustration process with their publisher, Little, Brown, and illustrator Vin Vogel.

6. Rhyme, Illustration, and Collaborating as a Couple

• The decision to keep the book in rhyme was intentional—despite advice that rhyming “is out” for kids:
  • “We’re kind of rhyming, sing-songy people, so we kind of held fast.” (Pen Holderness, [14:17])
• Discusses the thrill of selecting an illustrator who could capture the right emotional tone—especially important for kids with ADHD.
• Kim and Penn detail their division of labor: Penn handles the “fun stuff” and rhymes, Kim focuses on research, notes for parents/teachers, and back matter ([19:22]).

7. ADHD in Their Family & Destigmatizing the Diagnosis

• Their son, who has ADHD, grew up with open conversations at home but still experienced the typical “heavy” framing of diagnosis in clinical settings.
• “It gets delivered as... this really serious medical condition. And he gets in the car and he’s like, oh. And so, yeah, it was in the book. And so... I was like, oh my gosh, high five. You’re one. Like, you’re just like me.” (Pen Holderness, [23:04])
• Deeply motivated to reframe ADHD as a difference (not a deficit) for other kids and families.
  • “It’s a difference. It’s not a deficit, it’s not a disorder. It’s just a difference.” (Pen Holderness, [23:22])

8. The Movement and What’s Next

• The success of the previous books has fostered a sense of mission: to help destigmatize ADHD and provide empowering, accessible resources for kids and parents.
• Next book in the works will focus on practical “hacks” and gamifying daily life for kids with ADHD.
  • “If we find things interesting, if we find them novel or of personal interest, things are easier for us... so there’s ways to ‘gamify’ chores and responsibilities.” (Kim Holderness, [24:56])
• Penn and Kim see their viral content and podcast as vehicles for building community, visibility, and support for neurodiverse families.

9. Authenticity & Joy in Creative Work

• Both describe their ADHD and content creation as deeply entwined with their real life and marriage:
  • “We just talk about what’s happening in our life... helps us process, I think, to say things out loud. So it all happened very naturally.” (Pen Holderness, [27:32])
• Emphasize their joy in working together and how creativity is constantly sparked (sometimes more quickly than is “normal”).
• Lightheartedly imagine recording a podcast together in a retirement home, “talking to ourselves because it’s fun.” ([28:30])

10. Favorite Children’s Books Growing Up

• Both share beloved childhood authors and books:
  • Penn: Are You There God? It’s Me, Margaret, Gone With the Wind
  • Kim: Dr. Seuss, Shel Silverstein—especially Where the Sidewalk Ends
    • “Dr. Seuss and Shel Silverstein were my two favorite authors—and they exclusively rhymed.” (Kim Holderness, [29:21])

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “If your brain's like ours, you're in the right tree. You're part of the same club, you and me and everyone else who has ADHD. There are millions of us in this pretty big tree.” — Kim Holderness reading from the book, [05:41]
• “With understanding comes a little bit more confidence and a little bit less shame, right?” — Kim Holderness, [08:37]
• “Our dream is that a teacher's reading this in the class... so these kids can feel more seen, like everybody can understand a little bit more about what's happening.” — Penn Holderness, [08:43]
• “Your secret power is also your downfall—and why you forget to go to a restaurant pickup without wearing shoes.” — Kim Holderness, about living with ADHD, [12:17]
• “It’s a difference. It’s not a deficit, it’s not a disorder. It’s just a difference.” — Penn Holderness, [23:22]
• “This is our lived experience at home. This is our lived experience in our marriage... We just talk about what’s happening in our life.” — Penn Holderness, [27:32]
• “Dr. Seuss and Shel Silverstein... they exclusively rhymed.” — Kim Holderness, [29:21]

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Major Timestamps

• [04:36–06:21] — Kim Holderness reads from All You Can Be With ADHD.
• [06:41–07:42] — Why write a children's book about ADHD.
• [07:52–08:43] — The personal inspiration behind creating the book.
• [12:06–13:58] — ADHD’s influence on writing habits; the “flurry” of creation.
• [14:17] — Embracing rhyme in children’s books despite publishing trends.
• [19:22–20:16] — How Kim and Penn collaborate as a couple and choose illustrators.
• [21:14–23:16] — Their son’s diagnosis; making ADHD a positive family conversation.
• [24:50–25:56] — The next book and practical approaches to ADHD.
• [28:38–30:04] — Favorite children’s books and the influence of rhyme.

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Summary

This episode offers an uplifting, honest, and humor-filled look at how Penn and Kim Holderness channel their lived experience with ADHD into projects that empower kids and families. All You Can Be with ADHD is more than a book—it's a movement to shift the narrative from stigma to celebration of difference, to help children see their unique strengths, and to build understanding in classrooms and homes.

The Holdernesses are refreshingly open about their creative quirks, their partnership, and the joys and challenges of blending family, comedy, and advocacy. Their conversation is a must-listen (or read!) for anyone interested in parenting, neurodiversity, or the magic behind positive, relatable children’s literature.

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Transcript

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Zibby Owens]

Hi, this is Zibby Owens and you're listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have Time to Read Books. In my daily show, I interview today's latest best selling, buzziest or underrate authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time. As a bookstore owner, publisher, author and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to stay in the know, get insider insights and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zibbymedia.com and follow me on Instagram ibeowens Pen and Kim Holderness are the authors of all youl Can Be with adhd. This is a special episode. I have already interviewed Pen and Kim in person from last year for their adult book, this is now their kids book. I was supposed to interview them at my pop up store in New York City called Minnie rose on 73rd and Lex, but my stepfather Howard passed away and I couldn't do the event and so I asked Emma Rosenblum, the author and friend and colleague and everything, if she would help out. So Emma Rosenblum, thank you for stepping up and interviewing Penn and Kim Holderness for me that day. Thank you to Pen and Kim for just rolling with it and thanks to everybody who showed up that day for the live event and here is the recording of it. I hope you all enjoy and I'm so sorry I couldn't do it myself. Penn and Kim Holderness are social media creators, New York Times best selling authors and award winning podcasters, game creators and winners of the Amazing Race. Their viral videos have garnered over 3 billion views and have been featured on Good Morning America, the Today Show, Fox News Channel and CNN. The Holderness family currently lives in Raleigh, North Carolina with their children Lola and P.C. and their dog Sunny. They invite you to join them [e-mail].

[Interviewer]

So we're here to talk about the book which is out today. So congratulations.

[Pen Holderness]

Thank you.

[Interviewer]

So I think we should have a little taste of it if you wouldn't mind reading like a page or two just so everybody gets a sense of how sweet this book is. And I think he also reads the audiobook so it'll be like immersive experience.

[Kim Holderness]

Thank you guys so much first of all for coming. This, this really means a lot. As she said, the book is launching Today we haven't really. I haven't read this in front of a lot of people, so I'm like. I don't know why. I'm a little nervous, but I'm gonna try. I'll give it a go. All right, so if you don't have the pictures, I'm gonna hold it up like I do when I read it to kids, if that's okay. So this is about a clubhouse, and if you have adhd, we believe that you are part of a very cool club. I know a lot of children with ADHD do not feel a real sense of belonging sometimes in a world that wasn't made for them. And that's what this book is for. So here we go. Hi there. We're up there in the tree. Just look for the sign that says adhd. We have a big clubhouse. We're pretty excited to have you around. Come on up. You're invited. Just high five the sharks. Trampoline to the perch rope. Swing past the ninjas. They're here selling merch. Climb through that branch, past the snake with the fiddle, then knock on the door. The password is this riddle. I am invisible. I rhyme with art. I start with an F. What am I?

[Pen Holderness]

Very high broken.

[Kim Holderness]

And the kid is going to yell, yeah, now I can turn the page. You may enter. Did you like that adventure? This is our club. And now you're a member. And here is a secret. If your brain's like ours, you don't know it yet, but you have secret powers. If your brain's like ours, then you may be different. You may be fantastic. You may be vociferent. If your brain's like ours, you're in the right tree. You're part of the same club, you and me and everyone else who has adhd. There are millions of us in this pretty big tree. That was my chance to be like Mr. Rogers. Thank you.

[Interviewer]

So this is your second book about adhd. So I think, just to start off, why don't you guys talk about the process of revisiting the topic? You already have a book out about ADHD for grownups that came out last year, Is that right? Yes. So what made you revisit it in. In this different form? What was it about, you know, the topic that continually draws you back?

[Pen Holderness]

ADHD is awesome. Came out, and I have to say, our very generous, wonderful publisher wasn't sure that there would be a market for it, but I know, right? And so, really, and like, trust us, I think it's the book we needed as a family. So it did really well. We heard so much. We got so much great feedback and we had the opportunity to go around the country and do these book signings and every book sign the families brought their kids and they were trying so hard, like these 8 year olds were trying. They were like highlighting and they had stickers like they were trying so hard to read it because they wanted to learn about their brain. And I was like, oh my gosh, we're so dumb. We should have started with a kid's book. And so there was just such a natural extension. I would love to do like a tween book too, but I think kids are being diagnosed earlier and earlier and it's a pretty heavy diagnosis for a kid to hear. But there are so many cool things that the ADHD brain can do. And so we're just hoping that this book does that.

[Interviewer]

And I, you know, I've heard you talk about your own ADHD and about how when you were a kid, it would have been nice to have something like that. Is that part of the inspiration behind it?

[Kim Holderness]

Yes. And the folks at Little Brown made a little mini me in the book. That is part of it. And I get. Part of ADHD is you get emotional really easy. So if that happens to me, I apologize. That's just one of the things that happens with us. But if that little kid had had any idea what was going on, I think the playground would have been a little bit easier. The classroom would have been a little easier. The times when he felt overwhelmed would have been a whole lot easier. Because most children go through their lives with AD convinced that they don't fit in and that there's something wrong with them. There's not a lot of. There wasn't a lot of literature for it back then. There's not a lot of literature for it right now.

[Interviewer]

So it feels like it would fill the nice hole and hopefully will do. So for the kids that are about to buy it and read it, that's.

[Kim Holderness]

The hope that with understanding comes a little bit more confidence and a little bit less shame. Right?

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah. Just having a name for, for me personally, just having a name for something and understanding why something is happening in your body and brain is so powerful. But also my dream is that a teacher's reading this in the class and maybe there's three sweet ADHD kids that require more attention, but then the other neurotypical kids can learn about their friends and feel more so these kids can feel more seen, like everybody can understand a little bit more about what's happening.

[Interviewer]

Totally. I mean, I read the book and I have a 7 year old and a 10 year old, two boys and they don't have ADHD, but they have, a lot of them have ADHD and they, they know that they have adhd, but they don't really understand that. They come to me and said, oh, you know Charlie, he got, he got really mad, but it's because he has adhd. They are talking about it more in schools, which is very sweet, but I think that it would be nice for them to read this book so that they could actually understanding with their friends.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And you said you're going to hopefully go to schools and what, you know, what is your dream about like interacting with kids with this book? How are you seeing it play out and how do you want to see it?

[Kim Holderness]

Well, first of all, we haven't had a lot of kids read it because it just came out. So I'm scared. This is our first book for children and I'm not sure what it is. Maybe Sam can explain this to me just from Little Brown, like why I'm so nervous about this. I think because putting something in the hands of someone so important as a child, there's this new significance. But the dream to me is that they instantly identify with a character or, or a description that comes in this book and it makes them feel seen and understood. And then from there comes self awareness. And sometimes from self awareness comes like the ability to, to understand that, yes, sometimes things that are easy for other people are hard for people like us, but like, maybe they'll be more likely to, to want to work on it. Yeah, that's, that's a long, that's like the long term.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, no, that totally makes sense. And I, I mean this is also. You are both now authors. You know, you are beyond everything else you're doing, you are writing books, which is, I don't know if that's ever something you thought you would do.

[Pen Holderness]

Childhood dream. Yes.

[Interviewer]

That's so amazing.

[Zibby Owens]

Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah. And I thought, but I thought it'd be fiction and kind of like inside family joke is I'm always, even on the way here, I'm always pitching an idea for a fiction book. And he's like, yeah, babe, that's Dune. And I was like, what about a time came up with Dune? He goes, yeah, that's Dune. I'm like, oh, but so every idea I'm pitching is a premise. He's like, yeah, no, they did that in 1998. So.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, so. Yes. Yeah, you have. What about you? Did you Ever think of yourself that you would be a writer?

[Kim Holderness]

I would have loved to have done it. Like, my favorite writers growing up were Michael Crichton and, like, science fiction writers. But I always read the acknowledgments at the end of the book, and it was like, oh, the years of research and all of these people. And I was like, well, I can't do that. And so this is. Yeah, this is.

[Interviewer]

Children's books are harder than they look. So I want to talk to you about this a little bit, because I think everybody walks around. Not only does everybody think they can write the next Dune, people are like, I could write like, you're a parent. And you're like, I'm going to write this, you know, like, and I'll just draw some scribbles. But I know that it's a lot harder than that. So what was the process like for you guys to concept it and to, you know, go forward in that way?

[Pen Holderness]

Should we actually admit this? Okay, our editors here.

[Kim Holderness]

So I need to explain something first about adhd.

[Pen Holderness]

Sam's in the back going, oh, God, what's happening?

[Kim Holderness]

No. She's like, did you write it? I did not use AI to write this. No. Make sure everybody knows that. None. So there's two things that happen to someone with adhd. There's fixation and there's hyperfocus. They're the same thing. We call it fixation when we're not being productive. We call it hyper focus when we are being productive. That just generally is, like, how the lexicon has happened. I struggle with this. I excel with this. It can be like, whatever is your superpower, which we don't like. Your secret power is also your downfall and why you forget to go to a restaurant pickup without wearing shoes. True story. Which is fine with this book. I had a pretty good idea of what I wanted to do after all these tours, and I wrote it in three hours, the first draft, because it was just there. And you could have driven a truck through my office when I was writing the book. But it was one of the most spontaneous, creative, inspirational moments I've ever had in my life. But it was there, and it was waiting to be written. I know that's not normal. We've done a book since, and it normally takes a lot more time. But after that happened, the people at Little Brown obviously knew that it needed quite a few changes, and we spent some time making some edits and then got right into the artwork. So it's apparently really fast. This is one of the fastest, fastest times people have ever turned a book around and put it to market, which was great for us because we normally make a video and we post it the next day. But the speed at which this happened was really impressive on their end because you have to print things and you have to get authors. Am I oversharing?

[Pen Holderness]

No, you did great.

[Kim Holderness]

You did great.

[Interviewer]

That's fine. And then so you wrote it in a flurry of inspiration. And then you have. And you said you definitely wanted it to rhyme, that you were maybe counseled against having it rhyme because apparently rhymes are out, which I had no idea, but now I know.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, he basically written this, presented it, and there were some people who are experts in this space who are like, kids don't actually like to rhyme anymore. I'm like, that's kind of what he does. We're kind of rhyming. Sing songy people. So we kind of held fast. And Sam's like rhyming still.

[Interviewer]

So I will go against a good rhyme. It rhymes correctly, right?

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So. And then once you have the draft, and this is an interesting part, as someone who writes just books without pictures, how does that next part work? Where I'll do you just give it to somebody and they come back, or do you have input? How does it work?

[Zibby Owens]

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[Kim Holderness]

Terms apply. Lounge access is subject to change. See capitalone.com for details.

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[Kim Holderness]

Well, it goes to market.

[Pen Holderness]

So you've got about now we have that done.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah. And so okay, so then manuscript. That's like a manuscript. And then we picked a illustrator. Like the publisher gave us kind of a buffet of choices. And Vin Vogel, who's so talented, I mean from the very we saw his, the way he drew children and they're so expressive, like no brainer. And this is something that AI will never be able to do. So in this book we're like, okay, we want the children and this one page to look, you know, it's very daunting but we don't want them to look scared. So we need a very specific face. We don't want them look mad. But. And he perfectly captured kids expressions in a way that I think like, you know, machine learning would never.

[Interviewer]

So yeah, that's, that's funny that they sort of present an array and then you're like, yeah, this one. But I always feel like in sometimes in those creative situations, the people up top are giving you lots of bad options. And then one good.

[Kim Holderness]

Ask Sam about it.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, no, they were all really good options but they. Yeah, yeah, I, of course it's their first, you know, picture book. So. And our ADHD is awesome. Did. We felt very strongly there should Be. If you've read that book, there's some illustrations, there's some fallouts because it is written for the ADHD brain to be able to get through that. So that's a little different than this. But this illustrator, it was very quick. It was amazing how fast it all went.

[Interviewer]

So cool. And you are co writers on the book. So how does that work as a couple?

[Pen Holderness]

So, okay, here's my contribution. He wrote all the fun stuff, and then there's, I think, something we're proud of in this book. They call it the back matter, which I feel like there should be a different term. But in the back, we. We're hoping teachers and parents will get something. We have a note from Penn, a note for myself, an explanation of, like, what ADHD is. If the key points to dive in further. And then some, like, you know, making the most of your really cool brain and some, like, tips and tricks. So that's where I can contribute. I don't rhyme as well as Pen does, so just being totally transparent.

[Interviewer]

So that. So that's sort of the division of labor where you're doing the more research stuff and you're writing the kind of thing. Song part. And then you worked together throughout the whole process. And you work together. I mean, and I know you guys have obviously another book about a marriage and how that works together, but was there anything about this process in particular that you guys came up against or bonded over?

[Pen Holderness]

This was very clear. But we do work together on a daily basis. We have a podcast together. We make content together. I would say our marriage got better when we hired people to be the tiebreaker, because we are. We kind of dig in and get buried like, this is the hill I'm gonna die on. And it's the stupidest thing of like. Like how a graphic should appear on Instagram or something. And so when we hired people to be the tiebreaker, and so even for this, there was, you know, there. There was worry that maybe that there's something about, like, getting haircuts in the dark. Like, would a kid actually cut their hair in the dark after read something silly. But we needed, like, tiebreakers because naturally our instinct is. I mean, we're both pretty creative and we both really believe our ideas the best. And mine usually is generally the wife is.

[Interviewer]

And your son you talked about had adhd, right? And did he weigh in on the book at all? You know, he seemed to like it.

[Kim Holderness]

You know, like, he. So he. I don't know that he is the prime candidate for this because he's Been trained to understand ADHD since he was very young. We've been talking about it in our content for over 10 years. He asked me if he was ADHD when he was like 8. And I was probably like, you know, we'll get to that. And then when he was diagnosed, I think that a lot of the same things happened to him that happened to other kids, which is. The doctor talks about it like it's a disorder. They approach it in a medical model where they say, okay, there's some stuff you got to work on, but also, here's some pills. Get rid of these symptoms, like, good luck. And really, I think as soon as he got in the car, he was. It was like, but I'm going to be okay. Right. And we'd been trying to tell him that for a long, long time. So when he read it, I think it's kind of cool when you have a 15 year old who's proud of you. But he said, dad, I'm really proud of you. This kind of explains everything.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

So.

[Pen Holderness]

So he's such a sweet boy. He's my baby. Yes.

[Interviewer]

So nice. And also nice again that you can share that with him and that he was prepared more so than a lot of other kids.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah. He was born into the best house to have adhd. But I will say, even we were. We had started doing the research for that first adult book. So we were talking about ADHD all the time. He was singing and dancing about adhd. And then he got the formal diagnosis just because he couldn't need the paperwork for school and all that stuff. And it was, it was just he and I at the. At the appointment and the d. It gets delivered as. As if it's this really serious medical condition. And he gets in the car and he's like, oh. And so, yeah, it was in the book. And so we get home, we get home and Pen's like, oh, my gosh.

[Kim Holderness]

High five.

[Pen Holderness]

You're one. Like, you're just like me. And it, like kind of lift and had a very immediate conversation about, okay, some things are probably really hard for you that are easy for others, but your brain could do this. So.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. And it's the twisting of it and making it feel less dark and like something to embrace.

[Pen Holderness]

And it's a difference. It's not a deficit, it's not a disorder. It's just a difference.

[Interviewer]

Right. And that's basically the whole theme of the book is that, you know, you. You're different, but you can do all these amazing things.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. And then when you are done with the book and you are then now out into the world and you're going to schools and you're doing this, is it like, how. How do you think about the next thing? Are you so in this or you already. You said you already have another book happening. Like, how are you doing that all? And your podcast and your videos.

[Kim Holderness]

Yes. So again, we have help. We have. We have a great team, and they are keeping the lights on while we're gone. You might notice that we're posting videos this week. We're not the ones who are. Someone else is, thank goodness, helping us do that. While we're traveling as far as the next book, we feel like this is a movement that is gaining some momentum that started with our last book that came out last year, where we're really de. Stigmatizing something that millions of children and adults have, stuff that goes wildly undiagnosed, largely in the female population and the black and brown population, and that this is an opportunity to get this message across. So the same way that we quickly put this together, Little Brown has a plan where we have a manuscript already delivered for another one of these, which is more. So this book is. You belong. You're not broken, your brain's fine, right? Can I tell them what the next book is about, Sam? Okay, the next book is about, like, getting it done and having fun.

[Pen Holderness]

So, like, tips, hacks, like, which is brush your teeth. You got to brush your teeth, guys.

[Kim Holderness]

If you guys have anyone with ADHD that you know in your life, things are easier for us if we're interested in them, if we find them challenging, if we find them new or novel or of personal interest. So there's ways to quote, unquote, gamify chores and responsibilities with an ADHD kid. And so it's another. It's same kind of vibe, same illustrator, but showing, like, ways to sort of get things done and have fun.

[Pen Holderness]

But to your point of, like, the. I think we're. We're super all in on that. To the point, like, we'll get an email about book two. And I was like, I'm so confused. Why are you talking about that? But I think for this topic especially, we're incredibly motivated because it's the life we live in our house and it's the conversation we're having with teachers all the time. And so it's sort of surrounds us. So that's very motivating to the point that we, we love the. We love our podcast and we love creating stupid content on Instagram and, like, it makes us laugh. But we are seeing that as a way to get an audience so that we can spread this message. So. Because this I feel like is especially for Pen, like a really cool calling total.

[Interviewer]

I mean, I think your, your journey has been so fascinating because you know, you, you became viral for something completely unrelated to this. But what happens is, and I think like the best example of like content creation and content creators is finding what really is resonates with you but also feels authentic to you. And I think sometimes people don't do that. But it feels like this marriage of, you know, your brand with ADHD like feels so right and natural and it's like nobody else is really doing it. And I don't know if you feel like satisfaction that like you fell into this thing that really like works for you.

[Pen Holderness]

I, I just couldn't see us doing anything else again because this is our lived experience at home. Right. And this is our lived experience in our marriage. I mean, honestly, if we're going to like go to the wayback machine. Our first book came out about like, you know, marriage and how to fight so much out of that is when we learned, oh, ADHD is really executive functioning is really. This is, that's a lot more of the conversation and I have anxiety and all that stuff. So like the neurodiversity was a, a much bigger part of our marriage than we even knew when we were sit standing there saying our vows. So that's kind of how that unfolded and we just, we just talk about what's happening in our life. I mean not to be like too much tmi, but it just helps us process, I think, to say things out loud. So it all happened very naturally.

[Interviewer]

And again, it's the best type because it feels very authentic to you and particularly to you as a, you know, lived experience of ADHD and bringing that to the world.

[Kim Holderness]

It, it's again, it's an interest based nervous system. It's something that we've experienced and that is part of our lives. It's easier to talk about and it's also easier to work on and to like do good work on. It's. I mean it was. You were listing off all these things and we are pretty busy and I think at some point we're going to slow down, but we're not there yet. I think it's. I enjoy working with her. She's. She has this, she's just this endless tree of ideas outside of the books and everything else. Like she'll go on a walk and come back with Three or four really funny ideas, and then we just talk about how to bring them to life. So I think even if we did slow down, we would probably be. We'd probably do like a podcast in the old folks home where they don't.

[Pen Holderness]

Even plug it in. They're not even plugging it in.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. And we're just talking to ourselves.

[Pen Holderness]

That's going to be us.

[Kim Holderness]

Because it's fun.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, it seems like it's a lot of fun. And one more question. What were some of your favorite children's books growing up?

[Pen Holderness]

Love. Oh, my gosh.

[Kim Holderness]

I love this question.

[Pen Holderness]

So I loved. I mean, past picture books. Are you there, God? It's me, Margaret. Right. And so we were in the little brown offices yesterday, and I saw.

[Kim Holderness]

Are you there, God? It's me, Margarita.

[Pen Holderness]

Are you there, God? It's me, Margarita. And I was like, that is really, like the adult turn on it. I have to say, I was a really strange. I read Gone with the Wind in, like, fifth grade. I was.

[Interviewer]

I. Was that a thing people did?

[Pen Holderness]

I don't know. And my mother was always like, what are you do.

[Interviewer]

I did the same exact thing. And it, like, imprinted on me.

[Pen Holderness]

It was. It was so problematic. But, like, I was reading just, like, very different books. What about you?

[Kim Holderness]

No offense to what we are and aren't supposed to be doing now, but Dr. Seuss and Shel Silverstein were my two favorite authors, and they exclusively rhymed.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Kim Holderness]

And I think probably where the Sidewalk Ends was my favorite. You guys are all nodding your heads. Every page was some other different adventure with. Did he. Did he illustrate those or did someone else illustrate those? The illustrations were totally unhinged.

[Interviewer]

I think he illustrated them, too. You need to do one of the author photos that looks exactly like Shel Silverstein. Have you seen his? Okay, you have right after this. Google Shel Silverstein author photo. And you don't see it.

[Kim Holderness]

I can still remember.

[Interviewer]

Iconic, creepy author photo.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay, we'll all look that up when we're done.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

Here. Today. But, you know, he just. He just took you to a different world on every page. And most of the time it was, like, so ridiculous and silly that you had to go tell your mom about it. Like, there was this king who, like, wouldn't stop eating peanut butter sandwiches, and his mouth pried shut from all the peanut butter, and then they pried it open, and the first thing he said was, I want another peanut butter sandwich.

[Pen Holderness]

That stuck, though.

[Kim Holderness]

That's not the thing.

[Interviewer]

The winner. The bread.

[Kim Holderness]

Peanut butter sandwiches.

[Interviewer]

No, clearly you can see that you're influenced by that kind of form. I mean, in your songs and in the book also. So that comes through for sure.

[Kim Holderness]

Thank you.

[Interviewer]

All right, well, thank you so much everyone. And buy the book and talk to them.

[Pen Holderness]

And here's Eva's books.

[Interviewer]

Thank you for coming.

[Kim Holderness]

Thank you so much.

[Pen Holderness]

Thank you.

[Zibby Owens]

Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have Time to Read Books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review. Follow me on Instagram ibeowens and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.

[Kim Holderness]

Ready to order?

[Zibby Owens]

Yes. We're earning unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment with a Capital One Saver card.

[Interviewer]

So let's just get one of everything.

[Shark Beauty Cryoglow Promoter]

Everything.

[Kim Holderness]

Fire everything. The Capital One Saver card is at table 27 and they're earning unlimited 3% cash back. Yes, Chef.

[Zibby Owens]

This is so nice.

[Kim Holderness]

Had a feeling you'd want 3% cash back on dessert.

[Zibby Owens]

Ooh, tiramisu.

[Kim Holderness]

Earn unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment with the Capital One Saver Card. Capital One what's in your wallet? Terms apply.

[Pen Holderness]

See capitalone.com for details.

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