Rebecca Stead, THE EXPERIMENT

Summary

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Totally Booked with Zibby — Rebecca Stead, THE EXPERIMENT

Release Date: October 17, 2025
Host: Zibby Owens
Guest: Rebecca Stead

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Episode Overview

This episode features award-winning author Rebecca Stead, best known for her middle-grade fiction including When You Reach Me, Goodbye Stranger, and her latest book The Experiment. Zibby and Rebecca discuss the arc of Rebecca's career, her approach to writing authentic middle-grade stories, her insight into family dynamics, what inspires her subject matter, and the joys and challenges of engaging with young readers. The conversation offers inspiration for writers and readers alike, diving into both the creative process and the experience of books in kids’ lives today.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Rebecca Stead’s Path to Authorship

• Transition from Law to Writing

  • Rebecca describes starting as a public defender before shifting to writing after the birth of her second son and 9/11, which prompted her to rethink her career path.

    “I was a public defender for the most part... After my second son was born... I decided to leave the office in the Bronx. That whole time I kind of had this back burner writing going on.” (04:44)

  • Writing began as a “longing” and was rooted in her lifelong love of reading rather than an aspiration for publication.

• The Importance of Writing Community

  • Rebecca credits taking workshops, especially at the 92nd Street Y, and finding a critique group online for her development as a writer.
  • She describes an act of bravery—flying to Vermont to meet critique group members she had never met in person.

    “I flew to Vermont to spend a weekend with someone I had never met. I guess at that point, my longing to make that first book work overpowered my fears.” (07:59)

2. Capturing the Middle Grade Experience

• Writing for Herself vs. Writing for Readers

  • Rebecca’s authenticity comes from focusing on her characters rather than consciously writing for kids.

    “If you have it in the front of your mind, like, okay, this is a book for children... it generally does not lead to great places... Mostly I'm writing these books for myself.” (09:23)

  • Stead draws on her own childhood emotions and memories but notes she was not a “kid always writing”—her passion was always reading.

• Advice on Staying Genuine

  • She warns against trying too hard for a particular audience: “It’s a real mistake to think about readership too much when you’re writing.” (09:23)

3. The Themes in Rebecca's Books

• Exploring Family and Connection

  • Her personal experiences as an only child of divorced parents shape her depictions of family dynamics, often focusing on “non-traditional families” and the psychology of observing different family structures.
  • Importance of “acting in concert”—moments of collective action or community.

    “I often get teary at the end of a play when the cast comes out, even if the play is not particularly moving... There’s something about that feeling of connection, that community.” (11:18)

• Parents in Middle Grade Fiction

  • Rebecca refuses to sideline parents in her books because, at the ages she writes for, “parents are a huge part of your life.” (13:20)

• Speculative and Science Fiction Elements

  • She enjoys weaving in speculative twists, ensuring surprises feel “organic to the story” rather than betraying the reader. (13:55)

4. School Visits and Connecting with Young Readers

• Mutual Experience in Writing

  • Rebecca explains that writing is a universal struggle across ages:

    “There’s a way in which you don’t ever grow up as a writer... The best part of being with young people is just sharing that experience and just being really honest about the struggle.” (19:44)

  • She values conversations where students share their own creative fears and challenges.

• Funny Moments

  • Kids sometimes brazenly ask for her agent’s name—Stead laughs, never underestimating young ambition.

    “Kids are funny and they, they will say like, you know, can I have the name of your agent?” (22:03)

5. Entry Points into Rebecca Stead’s Work

• Suggested Books by Age and Interest
  • When You Reach Me: Most popular and most connected to Rebecca’s own childhood, recommended for new readers to her work.
  • Bob (co-written with Wendy Mass): Great for slightly younger readers.
  • Goodbye Stranger: Most mature middle-grade, dealing with more complex issues.

    “Bob is the youngest. Goodbye Stranger is probably the most mature and everything in the middle.” (22:52)

6. Thoughts on Required Reading and Encouraging Kids

• Rebecca expresses mixed feelings about her books being “required reading”—while honored, she emphasizes the importance of letting kids choose what they connect with.

  “I hate the idea of a kid, like, suffering through one of my books... I always want a kid to be able to put a book down and to find one that is going to, like, be for them.” (25:02)

• She champions rereading and letting kids enjoy whatever stories delight them, including comics and graphic work.

  “Let them... if they are finding love and safety and happiness in a book... just let them go there as often as they want.” (25:35)

• Special shout-out to Calvin and Hobbes as an inspiration for the friendship in The Experiment.

7. Recommended Authors and Books

• Rebecca shares she is currently enjoying The Nine Moons of Hanyu and Luli by Rena, highlighting her excitement and support for fellow authors. (27:49)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Courage and Community:

  “You have to be brave. And I am not famously brave, but when I found this critique group... I flew to Vermont to spend a weekend with someone I had never met.” —Rebecca Stead (07:59)

• On Emotional Connections:

  “There’s something about that feeling of that connection, that community that has always been really big and central for me.” —Rebecca Stead (11:18)

• On Authenticity in Children’s Literature:

  “Mostly I'm writing these books for myself... when I'm writing at my best, it's because I'm not really worried about who my readers are.” —Rebecca Stead (09:23)

• On Being Included in School Reading Lists:

  “I hate the idea of a kid, like, suffering through one of my books... I always want a kid to be able to put a book down and to find one that is going to, like, be for them.” —Rebecca Stead (25:02)

• On Calvin and Hobbes:

  “Calvin and Hobbes is genius. I'm in awe. And... that's a good example of just how sophisticated, really, a comic can be.” —Rebecca Stead (26:15)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:44] Rebecca discusses her career change from law to writing
• [07:59] The crucial role of bravery and finding community in one's creative journey
• [09:23] How Rebecca approaches writing for the middle-grade audience
• [11:18] The central themes in her stories—family, community, and emotional connection
• [19:44] Reflections on what she loves about school visits with kids
• [22:52] Where new readers should start with Rebecca’s books
• [25:02] Rebecca’s honest view on required reading for children
• [26:15] The impact of Calvin and Hobbes on her work
• [27:49] A current book recommendation from Rebecca: The Nine Moons of Hanyu and Luli

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Tone and Style

The conversation is warm, conversational, and encouraging, tinged with self-deprecating humor and deep respect for the power of children’s literature. Rebecca Stead’s authenticity and Zibby Owens’s genuine curiosity create an atmosphere that is both insightful for adults and sensitive to the world of young readers.

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Transcript

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[C]

Today's episode has been sponsored by Paramount Pictures Corporation. Okay, you guys, there is a movie coming out called Regretting youg based on Colleen Hoover's best selling book of the same name. I know many of you already know about this because I sent out an invitation to a screening when they so kindly gave us some tickets. And over 250 of you asked for tickets even though at the time we only had 20. We got a lot more. Anyway, I know you're all already excited about this movie, but for those of you who don't know, let me tell you more about it. This is about Morgan Grant, played by Allison Williams and her daughter Clara, played by McKenna Grace, as they explore what's left behind after a devastating accident reveals a shocking betrayal and forces them to confront family secrets, redefine love and rediscover each other. Regretting you as a story of growth, resilience and self discovery in the aftermath of tragedy. Also starring Dave Franco and Mason Thames. With Scott Eastwood and Willa Fitzgerald. In theaters October 24th. Are you excited? I am so excited. Director Josh Boone is the one who did the fault in our stars, obviously Colleen Hoover. It's about mother, daughter, relationships, heartbreak, grief, first love, second chances. It's the perfect film to share with your best friend, mom, grandmother, high school niece. It's filled with love and tears and laughter. Everyone will love it. Honestly, I cannot wait to see this movie. Come with us to one of the screenings. Watch it along. Send me notes on Instagram. I want to hear what you say. We'll all watch it together. Check it out. Regretting you.

[D]

Hi, this is Zibby Owens and you're listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have Time to Read Books in my daily show, I interview today's latest best selling buzziest or underrated authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time. As a bookstore owner, publisher, author and obviously podcaster. I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to stay in the know. Get insider insights and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zibbymedia.com and follow me on Instagram ibeowensk Rebecca Stead is the author of the Experiment. She is a New York Times bestselling author, also of when youn Reach Me, Liar and Spy, First Light, Goodbye Stranger, Bob, and most recently the List of Things that Will Not Change. Her books have been awarded the Newbery Medal, the Boston Globe Slash Horn Book Award for Fiction, and the Guardian Children's Fiction Prize. Rebecca lives in New York City where she is always on the lookout for her next story idea. Welcome Rebecca. Thank you so much for coming on Totally Booked to talk about all of your work including the Experiment and when you leave me and whatever else we talk about, I don't know, we'll see.

[B]

It is so great to be here. Thank you so much for having me on.

[D]

Thank you. As I told you before, this is required reading from my kids school and I have four kids so we've had a lot of people go through the books and everything. So this is particularly meaningful to me to talk to you, tell listeners a little bit about you as an author, how you got started, your whole writing career, middle grade.

[B]

Just give us a rundown, I'll give you the story. I grew up in New York City. I actually went to law school after college and I was a lawyer for a while. I was a public defender for the most part. I worked in a few different offices including a terrific one in the Bronx and and after my second son was born. So I have two sons and my younger one who is now 24, was born. I decided to leave the office in the Bronx where I was working and maybe get, I don't know, like a different kind of nonprofit law job. However, that whole time I kind of had this back burner writing going on. I was going to workshops. I took a workshop at the 92nd Street Y. I was doing a lot of reading. I wouldn't say I wrote a lot, but I definitely felt longing to be writing. And I didn't think very much about publication, to be honest. It was mostly kind of an urge that grew out of my reading and loving reading my whole life. So I actually never went back to being a lawyer. 9, 11 happened right in there in those first few months after my son, younger son was born. And so that if you. We all remember that sort of felt like all the cards got thrown in the air and lots of questions and thinking about life. And I started writing my first book for kids right then. And so I was older. I mean, I was, you know, this was my first attempt to sort of sit down and write on most days. I was in my mid-30s, and at one point when I had kind of a messy draft of my first book, I wrote to a woman named Wendy Lam, who I met in one of those workshops that I took. We took a workshop at the 92nd Street Y together and she helped me. She was working in the children's book business at Random House, and she read it for me. She introduced me to other people writing, and it was really wonderful. I didn't know anybody else who was writing. And she introduced me to another writer I had. Then I found an online community that led to a critique group and it was just step by step. And. Yeah, so my first book was published six years after I left that job in the Bronx. So it was a six year, you know, six year gap. Six zeros on my Social Security statement. Might be more than six, actually, probably more like seven or eight. But I've been. I'm not a fast writer, so there's always two or three years between books. So. But I have been publishing steadily since that first one, which is great and really lucky.

[D]

That's amazing. I love that story. See, it all goes to show, you know, you go, you do the work, you sign up for the classes, you're nice to people, you say yes to meeting people, and then things happen.

[B]

Yes, you have to be brave. And I am not famously brave, but when I found this critique group through this online group, I actually flew to Vermont to spend a weekend with someone that I had Never met. I had read her manuscript and she had read mine, and there were a couple of other people. I think there were four of us that first time. And I actually thought I had tiny kids, of course, at that point. And I just thought, are you really doing this? You know, you're leaving. You know, leaving New York of all my goodness, you know, taking a plane to stay with a woman at her house, and you've never met her. And I guess at that point, my longing to, you know, make that first book work sort of overpowered all of my fears, which was a really good thing.

[D]

And how. So now I've read two books of yours. Not all of them, of course, but how is it that you are able to capture the middle grade experience so well, and all those hopes and fears and the friendship dynamics, and even when it's not based in reality, even when the worlds are different, but the emotions are the same. Tell me a little bit about. About that or if it just comes naturally to you.

[B]

I think that a lot of it for me is just about not trying too hard. I think that if you have it in the front of your mind, like, okay, this is a book for children, and I have to remember I'm talking to children here. It generally does not lead to great places in terms of writing and story. I think that it's a real mistake to think about readership too much when you're writing. So mostly I'm writing these books for myself. I was a huge reader as a kid. I loved all kinds of books, and that's where the love started. I did not love writing as a kid. I was not one of those kids who was, like, always writing and had stories and had notebooks and wanted to raise her hand and share. No, not. Not even a little bit. But books were huge. And I think that when I'm writing at my best, it's because I'm not really worried about who my readers are. I'm more focused on the characters in the story, and my characters are children. So I'm trying to channel what I remember about the territory of childhood. But I'm mostly trying to get rid of any artifice. I mean, obviously the stories can get pretty wacky, particularly this new one. But that all comes from, like, a real love of the material, a real love for big twists in science fiction and, you know, thinking about what might be. Those kinds of questions are definitely just, like, a part of me and my. My material. I think we all just have, like, a big circle inside us, and there are many things in that Circle that we could write about. And so I think it's a good idea to stay in your circle.

[D]

Okay, so what are the things for people who don't know you as well? What do you think are the things in your circle?

[B]

Oh, gosh, I'm almost.

[D]

I mean, you set yourself up for that question. I'm just saying.

[B]

Yeah, I guess so. I walked right into that. I almost always am writing about families. Often they're not completely sort of the most typical family I write. I grew up in New York with divorced parents. My parents separated before my memory started. So I've always had two homes and I had stepbrothers and I have a half brother. But I would say that I have the psychology of an only child with divorced parents and terrific, terrific parents. But it was certain kind of view of the world, I think. And I think that a lot of. I think I was always observing families as a kid. Like, how does this family work? How does that family work? This is interesting. When I'm with my mom, these are the rules. When I'm with my dad, these are the rules. It's sort of like there was a depth to my thinking about family. And I definitely write a lot about family, including non traditional families. I'm obsessed with. I've learned from reading my own books with sort of what I would call acting in concert. When people come together to do things, I find it very moving. So, like, I often, you know, get teary. So I get teary at the end of a play when the cast comes out, even if the play is not particularly moving the way that the cat. When the cast comes forward and they bow together, tears spring to my eyes. And there's something about that feeling of that connection, that community that has always been really big and central for me. And so I think that my stories often have these moments of connection where people are acting together. A lot of the time, it's like a big group, weirdly. And so those are definitely. And then lots of relationship stuff. And my parents are almost always real people in my stories. I'm not one of those people who's just like getting the parents out of the way. Think that when you're 10, 11, 12, 9, 8, what? You know, these are my readers most of the time. Parents are a huge part of your life, right? That is one of your central relationships. And it may not be what you're worried about. You know, hopefully that's a relationship you can take for granted. But there's no doubt that those relationships are still central at that age. And So I do have parents who are real human beings in my stories. And then I love science fiction. I love speculative fiction. I love big story turns that feel not like a betrayal of the reader where the, you know, where the. It's like it's a surprise. But also it's. It's not sort of such a turn in the story that you feel like you've been pushed out of the story, you know, I don't know to say that exactly, but things that are surprising but in a way that hopefully feels organic to the story. So that's one of the things I work on a lot when I'm revising.

[D]

So interesting. I'll never watch the end of a play from now on without thinking of you in this conversation. I have the same feeling when sports events, like at a big. When there's a big goal and everybody rushes the field and they're all hugging.

[C]

I'm like, oh my gosh.

[B]

Totally. I love watching. Absolutely. I love watching athletes hug and celebrate and run at each other and jump into each other's arms. All that. It's just like one of my favorite things ever.

[D]

When else do people do that? They don't.

[B]

Yeah. When Exactly?

[D]

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[A]

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[D]

So you do a lot of talking to schools. I know you went to my kids school and everything. What has surprised you or what's something funny that's happened or something? What like, keeps you going when you do school visit after school visit? Like what, what do you hear from the kids that is exciting, all of that?

[B]

You know, I think for me the best part of a school visit is where we're talking sort of writer to writer. That's what I love the most. If kids are willing to go there and talk about their own challenges or fears. And it doesn't have to be about writing, it can be about anything where you're kind of putting yourself out there. But I, I really like hearing kids questions about their own creativity, their own sort of worries, or like when to share your work, who to share your work with, how to receive feedback. Like these are things that, you know, writers, you know, who are working writers. I don't think they ever really solve these questions because these are hard questions and every book is its own journey. But I think what I really love doing with young people is talking about the fact that their experience writing is shockingly like mine. It's not like other things where the experience, you know, a kid's experience doing it is, is wildly different from an adult's experience doing something. This is like there's a way in which you don't ever grow up as a writer. I mean, you get better at believing that it's going to work if you keep going. I think that once you've done that a few times, you can kind of keep the faith, like even when it feels horrible or hopefully, you know, now I have writer friends, which is the best they can say to me. You always reach this point where you want to throw your book away, just keep going, you know. And so if you can say that to yourself, hopefully you have a friend who can say it to you. But yeah, the best part of being with young people is, is just sharing that experience and just being really honest about the struggle. Because, you know, nothing annoys me more than when people say they're just having a ball writing. Yeah, it's, you know, it's super frustrating and lonely and there are great moments and it is the thing closest to my heart, for sure. I mean I have never doubted that. But it's not always fun. And so that's something I like to talk about with kids.

[D]

I love that.

[B]

Yeah, I don't have like a crazy story. I mean kids are funny and they, they will say like, you know, can I have the name of your agent? But I mean who am I? I'm like, you know, I never say never. You don't know who you're speaking to. You should be talking to someone who's going to publish at 15, I don't know.

[D]

So I mean they've got to come, they've got to come from somewhere. Oh my gosh. So if there is a grandparent or an uncle or somebody listening who has a middle grade kid and is like, oh my gosh, I didn't even know about Rebecca's dead. Somehow now I have to start my kid on her books. Where should they start? Like what's the best entree into your work? Or what are the top three you would want to give them?

[B]

I mean it depends a lot on the reader and the kind of story they like. Whether this story is being read to a young person or whether this is someone who's going to read on his or her own. I think that when youn Reach Me is by far my most popular book. In a way it's sort of the most me in that I sort of put my childhood time and place in there and sort of used my own childhood. The material kind of and the all little observations that you make about your world when you're a kid. That's the other thing I share with kids is like a lot of what I use in my, in my work is information that they already have in their heads like that I already carried by their age. And so just just to remember the value of that and that and you know, nobody else has your collection of stuff, you know. But so when you reach me, I think in many ways, I don't know, maybe just because more people have read it, it feels like my most typical book. But Bob is a book that is great for slightly younger readers. I think that's a book that I co wrote with Wendy Mass who has written many, many books including the 11 birthday series and Candymakers and what else? Goodbye Stranger is my, I would say most mature story. It is sort of an older middle grade story. It's about kids who are going through more complicated stuff and it's definitely the most mature. So I would say Bob is the youngest. Goodbye Stranger is probably the most mature and everything in the middle. I Don't know. I kind of have to know. I, I find this so hard to answer.

[D]

That's okay. That was a pretty good answer.

[C]

That was good.

[B]

Okay, good.

[D]

When, when I reached out to you before and said it was required reading for my kids, you said you had mixed feelings about that. Tell me, tell me more about that.

[B]

I do. Yeah. I hate the idea of a kid, like, suffering through one of my books. Like, I, I, I feel like if this story, no matter who wrote it, including me, is not working for you, you know, I always want a kid to be able to put a book down and to find one that is going to, like, you know, be for them. And so I'm always encouraging adults in my life, you know, to let kids just read as they will, including lots of rereading, which I think is a key, wonderful experience as a reader I've had, you know, parenting. To me, my kid just wants to reread. And I always say let them. I mean, that means that they are finding love and safety and happiness in a book. Like, let them go there as often as they want. It doesn't matter. Including graphic work, including silly work, including comic books I loved. I was a huge comic book reader as a kid, and it definitely, you know, fed me in ways that I probably don't really understand. But I was so hungry for those stories. Love them.

[D]

Hence the Calvin and Hobbes references.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Calvin and Hobbes is genius. I'm in awe. And yeah, I mean, that's a good example of just how sophisticated, really, a comic can be. That's a deep friendship. And also just the love in that, the love of, the love between Calvin and Hobbs is something that I loved just holding in my heart while I was writing the friendship between the two boys in the experiment. Because I really, I love writing friendships and I, I love whatever, whatever the genders, it doesn't really matter. But in this, in this book, it's a friendship between two boys, which is strong and pure, and that is something that definitely kept me going through this one. Amazing. Did your son. How, how, how is it going with the book? Which book is he reading?

[D]

He already finished when youn Reach Me at the beginning of the summer. My daughter read it last year and. Yeah, okay. Wow. So it's going well.

[B]

He. I hope it wasn't, I hope there was. Yeah. That it was a pleasure, at least some of the time.

[D]

Yeah. I think the nature of, I think what you're saying, like, the fact that it was required, like, I think he would have Read it anyway. You know, he's a big reader, so anyway.

[B]

Oh, good. Well, that's great. Yeah, I'd love to hear what else he's reading.

[D]

Yeah, he's in a Stuart Gibbs phase as well.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Fantastic. Stuart Gibbs. I'm reading this right now, which I saw on your most anticipated list. Can you read this?

[D]

Oh, yes. The nine moons of Hanyu and Luli.

[B]

The nine moons of HanyU and Luli. This is so I am like complete. Like every time I have five minutes, I'm grabbing it up to read it. Oh, yes. I was so excited to see that one on your list. Rena is also a friend of mine.

[D]

Oh, great. Amazing.

[B]

We're going to a WNBA game tonight.

[D]

Oh, my gosh. We'll have fun. Look at you. Well, Rebecca, thank you so much. Thank you for chatting with me, for all the time you spend with all the kids and all the encouragement you give them. And who knows, your talks have probably produced many writers already, so thank you so much.

[B]

Thank you. And thanks for everything you are doing to, you know, showcase all of all of the books in the world. And there are many, many and many deserving ones. But I feel very lucky to be here and. And to be on your fall list. So thank you so much.

[D]

You're so welcome.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

All right, take care. Okay, bye.

[B]

Bye.

[D]

Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Siby, formerly Moms don't have Time to Read Books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram, ippyowens and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.

[C]

Today's episode has been sponsored by Paramount Pictures Corporation. Okay, you guys, there is a movie coming out called Regretting youg based on Colleen Hoover's best selling book of the same name. I know many of you already know about this because I sent out an invitation to a screening when they so kindly gave us some tickets and over 250 of you asked for tickets even though at the time we only had 20. We got a lot more. Anyway, I know you're all already excited about this movie, but for those of you who don't know, let me tell you more about it. This is about Morgan Grant, played by Allison Williams and her daughter Clara, played by McKenna Grace, as they explore what's left behind after a devastating accident, reveals a shocking betrayal and forces them to confront family secrets, redefine love and rediscover each other. Regretting you as a story of growth, resilience and self discovery in the aftermath of tragedy. Also starring Dave Franco and Mason Thames with Scott Eastwood and Willa Fitzgerald. In theaters October 24th. Are you excited? I am so excited. Director Josh Boone is the one who did the Fault in Our stars, obviously Colleen Hoover. And it's about mother, daughter relationships, heartbreak, grief, first love, second chances. It's the perfect film to share with your best friend, mom, grandmother, high school niece. It's filled with love and tears and laughter. Everyone will love it. Honestly, I cannot wait to see this movie. Come with us to one of the screenings. Watch it along. Send me notes on Instagram. I want to hear what you say. We'll all watch it together.

[D]

Check it out.

[C]

Regretting you.

[A]

Did you know Tide has been upgraded to provide an even better clean in cold water. Tide is specifically designed to fight any stain you throw at it. Even in cold butter. Yup. Chocolate ice cream.

[D]

Sure thing. Barbecue sauce.

[A]

Tide's got you covered. You don't need to use warm water. Additionally, Tide pods let you confidently fight tough stains with new coldzyme technology. Just remember, if it's gotta be clean, it's gotta be tied.

[D]

This Halloween, what's under your costume might just steal the show.

[B]

Wait, is that Glow in the Dark underwear?

[D]

Booyah. Meundies has dropped their spookiest collection yet. Glow in the dark undies and PJs. So comfy it's scary.

[B]

Tricks, treats and buttery soft briefs.

[D]

Exactly. To get cozy and spooky for less, go to Meundies.com Trickortreat and enter code trickortreat to get 20% off your first order. That's 20% off your first order at Meundies.com TrickortREAT code trickortreat Meundies Treat yourself.