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- [00:00]
Zibby Owens
Hi, listeners. We have totally booked live coming up this fall and I hope you'll be a part of it. We have three events in New York City, September 19th, 25th and 30th in New York where I'll be doing six interviews live each day. We also have a petite retreat in Greenwich on October 4th. Go to zibbemedia.com and event or and or eventbrite and search the events and please come. I can't wait to meet you in person.
- [00:31]
Capital One Announcer
Ready to order?
- [00:32]
Zibby Owens
Yes.
- [00:33]
Capital One Announcer
We're earning unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment with a Capital One Saver card. So let's just get one of everything.
- [00:39]
Rebecca Wolf
Everything.
- [00:40]
Capital One Announcer
Fire everything. The Capital One Saver card is at table 27 and they're earning unlimited 3% cash back.
- [00:46]
Zibby Owens
Yes, Chef.
- [00:47]
Capital One Announcer
This is so nice.
- [00:48]
Had a feeling you'd want 3% cash back on dessert.
- [00:51]
Oh, tiramisu.
- [00:53]
Earn unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment with the Capital One Saver Card. Capital One what's in your wallet?
- [00:59]
Terms apply. See capitalone.com for details.
- [01:04]
Zibby Owens
Today's episode has been sponsored by Digipod. As someone who's passionate about books and authors, I'm always excited to share resources that can help bring your stories to life. That's why I am thrilled to tell you about Digipod, a print on demand company that truly understands what authors need to make that happen. Here's what I love about Digipod. They don't just print your books and send you on your way. Their team holds your hand throughout the entire process with incredible customer service. They deliver professional grade printing quality, consistently beat their competitors, turnaround times, and they.
- [01:36]
Sponsor Announcer
Can handle rush orders.
- [01:37]
Zibby Owens
They simplify the whole printing process and make it incredibly easy. To achieve your vision for your books, head over to Digipod Zibby. That's D I G g y p pod.com Zibby set up a free 15 minute printing consultation and get 10% off your first print order. You'll talk with their experts who will walk you through exactly how to set up your print job and answer all your questions. And by the way, I've seen the books and they are amazing looking. If you've been thinking about printing your.
- [02:10]
Sponsor Announcer
Book, this is the support you want.
- [02:12]
Zibby Owens
Again, that's digipod.com zibby for your free consultation. Today's episode is sponsored by the Foxed Page, a podcast and YouTube channel that dives deep into the very best books. It's basically your favorite college English class, but very relaxed and way more fun. No exams, no participation and only books.
- [02:35]
Sponsor Announcer
You really want to read.
- [02:36]
Zibby Owens
Kimberly Ford, best selling author, one time professor and PhD in literature, offers up entertaining, often funny talks that will leave you feeling inspired and a little smarter. She digs right into everything from J.D. salinger to Miranda July, from Demon Copperhead to Madame Bovary, from Pride and Prejudice to Lessons in Chemistry. The talks on individual books are the heart of the podcast, but enriched read segments tackle ideas like unreliable narrators, while old favorite talks treat you to a fresh adult look at childhood gems like Harriet the Spy and Are you there God? It's me, Margaret. Want to get the most out of what you read and be entertained along the way? The Fox page is for you. Hi, this is Zibby Owens and you're listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have time to read books. In my daily show, I interview today's latest best selling buzziest or underrated authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time. As a bookstore owner, publisher, author, and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to stay in the know. Get insider insights and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zibbymedia.com and follow me on Instagram ibbeowensk. Rebecca Wolf is the author of Alive and Beating A Novel. Rebecca is a former journalist whose fiction and essays have appeared in many publications including Apricity and Tablet. She is a volunteer writing tutor for Penn's America's Prison Writing Program, and she lived in Jerusalem as a foreign student before attending Barnard College. She lives in New Jersey with her family. Welcome Rebecca. Thank you so much for coming on Totally Booked to talk about Alive and a Novel. Congrats.
- [04:30]
Rebecca Wolf
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be here.
- [04:34]
Zibby Owens
Well, thank you for this beautiful novel which at times felt like short stories all interwoven in these clever ways. I was reading part of it in the car with my husband and I would be like, oh my gosh. And now this person. Listen to what how this related to this and listen to what happened with these guys and this guy. Oh my gosh. Anyway, it was very, very cool the way you did the whole thing. Why don't you explain to listeners what the book's about and the structure and how you even thought of it all.
- [04:59]
Capital One Announcer
Sure.
- [05:00]
Rebecca Wolf
So the book in a one sentence is about six people that get organ transplants from a victim of a suicide bombing. And it's inspired by the true story of a friend of mine who was killed 30 years ago when we were 20 years old. She was on a bus in Israel on the way to the beach, and her bus was blown up. But her family donated her organs. And that was sort of the most transformative part of the story in that most Jewish people around the world, and certainly in Israel, were not donating their organs. And her death and subsequent donation really changed the way people looked at things. And since then, Israel has gone from being a country that was leading in donor shortages to being a country leading in organ donations. So, anyway, I. I wanted to honor my friend, but I was also very concerned with sort of writing her story when it wasn't my story. So that's why I didn't want to have the traditional main character protagonist and have it be all about her. I also thought this would be an opportunity for me to sort of sow the diversity of Jerusalem and to show how I think we're actually all much more similar than we are. And so by not telling her true story, I was able to kind of hand pick the recipients and try, like you said, weave things together and try to make it a story of hope and of our shared humanity.
- [06:35]
Zibby Owens
I feel like I'm sort of still in the room with an IV in my arm or the bag or however with. Who's the character Yael, who had. Who was getting her transfusions in the Tel Aviv hospital after the car ride and everything, and not wanting to watch tv, not wanting to do any of the things she's not supposed to do, and just like sitting there feeling so suffocated in so many ways. It was such a. I mean, the way you depicted it. And then like the hair salon. I mean, the settings themselves were so revealing. Right. Everything becomes like a microcosm of their stations in life in a way, the way you do that.
- [07:14]
Rebecca Wolf
I think the settings in some ways are another character of the book because. Which is another interesting thing. If someone hasn't been to Jerusalem, it's hard to believe that you could walk almost like 10 minutes in either direction and be in a radically different neighborhood. It almost feels like the weather is different and it's not. And so I felt like the setting was important. And even in our last chapter, the hospital room as a setting, because talk about, you know, stifling and claustrophobic, not even really knowing what the weather is. Oh, it's spring. They can't tell.
- [07:51]
Zibby Owens
Yeah. There's a different sense of time in hospital land. Right. And when you walk, I remember spending a bit of time for one reason. And then I. I, like, got outside, and I'm like, what? It's all.
- [08:02]
Rebecca Wolf
It's.
- [08:03]
Zibby Owens
You know, even the air felt different. It's. I don't know. I have so much respect for people who work in hospitals and do that every day. Like, that's their life when the rest of us pop in and out. But anyway, wait, go back. Can you tell me more about your friend and how you met and what she was like, and then a little bit about the loss and what that did to you?
- [08:23]
Rebecca Wolf
Sure. It would be my pleasure. So my friend's name was Elisa Flato, and we were friends in high school. My maiden name is Geller, so we had lockers F. G right next to each other all four years. And I was a little bit of a grumpy teenager, certainly in the mornings, so I would kind of trudge into school. She was just the opposite. She had big dimples, big eyes, and just a big personality. And so she was a great person for me to have a locker next to in the mornings because she always was just cheerful and started my day off right. So we were very close in high school. And then afterwards, you know, there was no Internet back then, and there was no texting, so we did write letters and we called once in a while. But where.
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Zibby Owens
Where was your high school?
- [09:15]
Rebecca Wolf
So our high school was in New Jersey, in Paramus, New Jersey. It was a small, private Jewish high school, and my grade only had about 100 kids, so we were all pretty close. And then after. Afterwards, I went to Barnard and she went to Brandeis, and for our junior year abroad, we both were taking. She took a semester off and went to Jerusalem to study. She studied, like, Jewish subjects. And I was in London, and I was actually studying terrorism, ironically enough. And so this was April of 1995, and like I said, she was going with some friends. It was just this right before Passover. So her seminary was on break, and she was on her way to the beach, and a suicide bomber drove his truck into her bus. And a lot of people were killed, a lot of people were injured. What was crazy about Elisa's story is that she actually was in perfect condition. And this part I did model my. My character on. But a piece of shrapnel severed her brainstem. So they called her family in America. Her dad jumped on an airplane, came to Israel, and they pretty quickly said, you know, your daughter is not alive, but her body is, and would you consider being an organ donor? And, you know, he called his wife. And I think they really wanted to make it happen because it was like the only thing they could take from this. So they consulted with a bunch of rabbis. And even now, I mean, I would never want to say what is the rule or not the rule. But it seems now there is a series of tests that have to be established, let's say three things, three hours apart, three times to establish brain death. They didn't have that protocol back then, so this was really like creating something new. And Elisa had. She became famous pretty much overnight because she was the first American tourist to be killed by a terrorist in Israel. And then to be also the first religious Jew to do this was just really. She was all over the newspapers. And Prime Minister Yitzchak Rabin spoke, as I say in the last in my author's note, he said, elisa's heart is alive and beating here in Jerusalem. And he actually flew to New Jersey a few weeks later and he paid a condolence visit to the family. So it shows you, like, how groundbreaking it was. So for me as a 20 year old, you know, I know we just had this article yesterday in the Wall Street Journal from Elizabeth Bernstein, who's such an amazing writer. And I know this is supposed to be talking to me, but I'm so curious from you also to hear about your friend Stacy. So as a 20 year old, you're just. First of all, you don't believe it because we're supposed to be invincible when we're 20. And when you're going to the beach, you know, you just, you can't really process it almost. And I definitely think at that age I felt shock and sadness and just such a profound loss. And, you know, it was like she was probably the friendliest person in our whole class. How could she be gone? It was. But later on, I started to think more about what happened after her death. And I started to realize, like, wait, my friend was really a hero. You know, like, she changed the world. Literally changed the world. And I'm so proud of her. I wish she didn't have to do it this way, but I think it's amazing that she did. And so when it came time for me to say, I think I want to write a book, this was the only book I could write. It was just a story that had been in me for so long, and I kept trying to write something else and I couldn't. So eventually I said, let me just. Let me get this off my chest. And it was sort of cathartic.
- [13:27]
Zibby Owens
I will say, wow, well, to your point about invincibility and how shocking, how particularly shocking if it even is, I don't know, maybe it's always as shocking. But when you're that age and you had a line somewhere that said, of course teenagers have to be soldiers because they're the only people who believe they're invincible. And in a way that actually made me feel better because I'm always like, oh my gosh, those boys are so young. And oh my God, you know, we feel, feel it as like, you know, my son's age, you know, like you feel it but they're like, no, it's going to be okay. And then we also, as young, you know, we, we felt like we all had the world ahead of us. And then when someone in our peer group, you know, I don't often chat with other people whose really close friends are killed by terrorists. So you know, hey, right, there's that in common. But it is, it is hard to fathom because it is just, it's hard to put that in life and then, you know, go about your day and.
- [14:27]
Rebecca Wolf
Right. And it's different, I think, than when someone dies from an illness, which is obviously just as sad and the loss is just as profound. But this just had this element of just like pure evil in it that I also was very hard to reconcile because I actually still try to wear my rose colored glasses in life. And I do actually think most people are good. But definitely at age 20, I really did. I had a great view of the world. And so for something like this to happen, I just, I just thought what? Like, how could this happen? Why would someone do this?
- [15:05]
Zibby Owens
Wow. Well, I'm so sorry for your loss. I really appreciate the way that you took that experience and made it into art to open readers eyes. Not just to your friend or that experience, but to the many types of people living in Israel, to how people's stories interact, how there's two sides to every story and also to the illnesses that you draw attention to because there are a whole range of situations medically that now I've learned a little bit more about through the book, which was also interesting. So did you. How do you know so much about all of that?
- [15:41]
Rebecca Wolf
Yeah, that was super interesting to me also. I mean, I love to read and I love research. I'm a librarian's daughter, so I think it like is in my genes. I have a lot of friends who are doctors, luckily someone in almost every specialty. But I just kind of went on, you know, National Kidney foundation and started reading and you you read a lot of patient stories, watch a lot of those videos. And I read a lot of books by people who either are confronting illness or were confronting illness. Like, I'm sure you've read When Breath Becomes by Paul Collins. Like, that's a perfect example of just the most amazing writer and person, it seemed like. And he gave such an incredible insight into all of a sudden going from doctor to patient. And I really, I mean, maybe enjoyed is the wrong word because these were hard books to read. But I have to say, I learned so much from all of those books that I read. I definitely gained an appreciation for my own good health. And I hope that I've become more compassionate to those who don't have it, because. And one of the things I tried to portray in the book is, you know, for some people, literally moving from the bed to the couch is a major accomplishment in the day. And not only do I have to not take that for granted in myself, I have to appreciate that in these people and say that is resilience. Like, it doesn't. It may seem like such a small thing, but it's really not. When you are bedridden, to get to a sitting position is a huge effort. And so I learned so much. But I also learned, you know, back to what we were saying at the very beginning of our conversation about the hospital and how things are different there. I also think in some ways life is easier in a hospital because you're stripped of all that other stuff and they're just people. You're human beings with bodies that are fighting things and you're trying to survive. And I've seen it myself in hospitals and I really tried to portray that in the book, that it's much easier for people to get along there. I don't know if you've seen that in your own experience.
- [17:57]
Zibby Owens
I. I haven't spent enough time, I mean, like, knocking wood here by the. For longer term experiences. But I don't know, I feel like nothing is easier in a hospital. But that's my own bias.
- [18:11]
Rebecca Wolf
That's true bias. Maybe that's. I see what you're saying.
- [18:13]
Zibby Owens
No, no, I know what you're saying. I'm just joking. I mean, not. Yes. Because we are all just fighting for our lives, right? That's what the hospital is. That's it. Like vitals, right? My gosh.
- [18:26]
Sponsor Announcer
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- [19:27]
Zibby Owens
You'Ll look forward to.
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- [21:46]
Capital One Announcer
Ready to order?
- [21:47]
Zibby Owens
Yes.
- [21:47]
Capital One Announcer
We're earning unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment with a Capital One Saver card. So let's just get one of everything.
- [21:54]
Rebecca Wolf
Everything.
- [21:55]
Capital One Announcer
Fire. Everything. The Capital One Saver card is at table 27 and they're earning unlimited 3% cash back.
- [22:01]
Zibby Owens
Yes, Chef.
- [22:02]
Capital One Announcer
This is so nice.
- [22:03]
Had a feeling you'd want 3% cash back on dessert.
- [22:06]
Ooh, tiramisu.
- [22:07]
Earn unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment with the Capital One Saver Card. Capital One what's in your wallet?
- [22:14]
Terms apply. See capital1.com for details.
- [22:18]
Zibby Owens
What were you doing before you were a lawyer? Did I make that up? No, no.
- [22:22]
Rebecca Wolf
I used to make that up. My husband's a lawyer.
- [22:24]
Zibby Owens
Your husband's a lawyer? And he knows my cousin.
- [22:26]
Rebecca Wolf
Right?
- [22:26]
Zibby Owens
He knows my cousin.
- [22:27]
Rebecca Wolf
He knows your cousin.
- [22:28]
Zibby Owens
Amazing. Amazing.
- [22:29]
Rebecca Wolf
My husband is a lawyer and I. I was a reporter before I had kids. I worked for Dow Jones Newswires, which was the wire of the Wall Street Journal. And I covered heavy industries. And it was a great job, but not really my thing. And so when I had my first daughter at the end of 99, I stayed home with the kids and I mostly just over the past, you know, let's say the first 10, 15 years, I just wrote articles about parenting or Jewish subjects, more very light personal essays. And I would say mostly I was a mom. And then when my youngest was about, you know, maybe towards the end of elementary school, getting into middle school, I thought, I really have a lot of time during the day and I need. I need to go do something. And I had always thought about just trying to write a book, and so I decided this is the time to do it. And like I said before, I tried to write something else, and it just. This had to come out of me. So eventually I gave in. I started with the first chapter of the Hasidic Girl because even though I am not Hasidic, I have some friends who are. And that was an easier. I didn't have to do as much research for that as I did, let's say, for the chapter about the Catholic priest. Because I am neither a man nor Catholic nor a priest, so I had to spend a lot more time.
- [23:59]
Zibby Owens
And your ankle is hopefully fine.
- [24:01]
Rebecca Wolf
So there's that. And so it took a long time. It took me about four and a half years to write the book. There was a lot of research between the medical a lot. The locations. I haven't been to all of those places in Jerusalem, even though I've lived there. And just. I don't follow a lot of the rules that you're supposed to follow as a writer. Like, I know you're supposed to have what they call the vomit draft and just get it all out, but I have a hard time doing that. And I need to sort of have something be in pretty decent shape before I move on to the next thing. I'm also not so good always at saying, okay, every day from 9 to 12, I'm sitting down and I'm going to put out at least a thousand words. I think when I was a reporter, it was helpful that I could work under pressure, but now it's a little more of a procrastination. So I tended to write a lot in a few days and then take a few days off and then go back to it. But eventually it got done.
- [25:03]
Zibby Owens
I'm the same way, by the way. I'm like, I have. I need like a long plane flight where I'm. I have no excuse and then I won't be interrupted. But if I have all day at home, I'm like, no, no, no, now I'm gonna email and now I'm gonna do another zoom and I'm gonna do this. And somehow it's like, impossible. Yeah.
- [25:20]
Rebecca Wolf
And especially when you have to research, you don't feel like you're procrastinating because you think, well, but I really need to do this for the book. But it a little bit is because you can keep reading and reading and reading. I also used, I think because I was a journalist, a lot of the stories in my book, probably almost all of them are true. Like, they're all sort of read from the headlines. So anytime I would read something, I had a whole file for myself on my Google Drive of just stories. Like, for example, the girlfriend of the soldier in the liver chapter who was a shooting instructor. That's a real story where someone did this. So that made it easier for me because switching from journalism to fiction writing is hard. And I didn't. Here was Like, I didn't have to use my imagination as fully, and I was able to, like, take something real, but then just build it up and fictionalize it.
- [26:16]
Zibby Owens
Interesting. I like that. Inspired by true events.
- [26:19]
Rebecca Wolf
Yeah. Ripped from the headlines.
- [26:21]
Zibby Owens
Ripped from the headlines.
- [26:22]
Rebecca Wolf
Yes, exactly.
- [26:23]
Zibby Owens
Do you feel now that it's out that you have a new sense of peace with things that have happened? With the loss of your friend, with this itch to write, how do you feel?
- [26:34]
Rebecca Wolf
It's an interesting question. I definitely think it was cathartic for me in terms of a personal loss, I think, with her family. There have been a lot of articles in my local, especially the local, like, Jewish papers, where there have been pictures of her, and a lot of our former classmates have been in touch with her family, saying, you know, I still think about her. I still miss her. So to that extent, it's been really comforting and I think really a nice thing. I mean, it happened to, just by coincidence, come out on the 30th anniversary of her death. So in some ways, like, the timing couldn't have been better, even though I think, wow, it took me so long, but maybe everything's meant to be that way. The other part of it, I'm not sure. I mean, I actually think this book is so relevant for right now because I think it's about our shared humanity. But it was a hard book to get published. It was a challenging process that I would say did not go exactly how I hoped it would. And now it's still a little bit challenging. You know, it's really hard to get out there. I'm grateful to your cousin because it's hard to get on podcasts. It's hard to get in, you know, in papers. It's just really hard. And I think my demographic and my subject matter make it even harder than it would be just for any indie writer.
- [28:00]
Zibby Owens
On the other hand, there is a big market audience, target audience, Right?
- [28:07]
Rebecca Wolf
That's true. Although in some ways, I hope the target audience would be someone who isn't necessarily thinking like me, because in some ways, I would be so happy if somebody that really didn't know anything read this and said, you know, why are we only focusing on, like, the bad stories? There definitely are some good stories here, and there are some people that do get along, and maybe if those people, you know, we focused on them more, we could have something good happen. So. But, yes, I agree with you, and I've gotten really great support from my community, for sure.
- [28:43]
Zibby Owens
I didn't mean to minimize it. It's just. It's always good to have a base.
- [28:47]
Rebecca Wolf
Yeah. No, you're not. I understood what you were saying. And you. I mean, I hope this doesn't sound too solicitous, but, like, you're amazing that I was on a zoom that you were on maybe over a year and a half ago with Hadassah, talking about why you started that book, you know, on being Jewish now and really trying to support Jewish writers. And thank you, because you are sticking your neck out for people and I really appreciate it. So I know a lot of people do, but I have to just, like, say thank you publicly because you recognize that there's an extra challenge there, and so you're doing what you can and using your platform to try to promote people. And I really think it's amazing.
- [29:34]
Zibby Owens
Thank you. That's really nice. I really appreciate it. Also, the books are really good. You know, like, your book is really good. So I'm not taking on books that I don't think are amazing. It just so happens that, you know, as someone Jewish, I find those topics really interesting. Not exclusively, of course. I love reading. Getting to know tons of types of people. But, yeah, I think it's important.
- [29:58]
Rebecca Wolf
Yes.
- [29:59]
Zibby Owens
So thank you for saying that. It's nice. Are you working on anything new?
- [30:04]
Rebecca Wolf
So I do have a book sketched out that I've been trying to get deeper in, but I find it's really hard now that I am trying to have a bunch of events on this book. I'm so married to these characters still, and they're so alive in me that it's a little hard to invest deeply in other characters while these are here. So for the moment, it's more in sketch form as opposed to deep down, nitty gritty writing. But I'm hoping that by mid fall, when, you know, I think things will slow down a little more for me with this book that I'll be able to really get to it.
- [30:42]
Zibby Owens
I mean, no pressure. It's okay. I mean, you spent all this time and now you've crossed the finish line. It's okay. You don't have to like. True.
- [30:49]
Rebecca Wolf
And hopefully it won't take me four and a half years, but I could imagine it would take me two years. Because this book that I'm thinking of also would involve a lot of research. It has a dual timeline. Like, I guess I don't like making things easy for myself, so I'm picking another somewhat complicated format. I mean, it won't be as hard as this. One of the hardest things with this book, and I don't know if you've ever written anything where it was everything had to be at the exact same time. So everything here had to take place in 36 hours because I wanted to get to the urgency of an organ donation. You have such limited time, and there'd be time that I thought I finished something, and I was like, great, this part is done. And then I realized, oh, shoot, you know, it's the night, and it had to be the morning, and I'd have to go back. And it was probably an unnecessary challenge that I put on myself, but it was just part of the vision that I had for the book.
- [31:48]
Zibby Owens
The novel I'm writing now is all within less than 24 hours. So I get it. I totally get it. At the same time, I feel like at least it's a nice container, you know, Like, I have the urgency, too, and like, hopefully the reader as well. Right. That's the bonus. But, yeah. Well, Rekha, thank you. I really, really enjoyed it and happy to help however I can. Alive and beating. Beautiful. Now we have to launch this wallpaper. Somehow. I would totally put this on my wall. Maybe this is.
- [32:16]
Rebecca Wolf
I will call the book designer.
- [32:18]
Zibby Owens
Yeah, call the book designer. I really like it. Anyway, congratulations.
- [32:22]
Rebecca Wolf
Thank you so much. And thank you again for having me. I really appreciate it.
- [32:26]
Zibby Owens
My pleasure.
- [32:27]
Rebecca Wolf
All right, take care. Bye.
- [32:28]
Zibby Owens
Bye. Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibi formerly Moms don't have time to read books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review. Follow me on Instagram ibyowens and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.
- [32:51]
Capital One Announcer
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Zibby Owens
Yes.
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Capital One Announcer
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- [32:59]
Rebecca Wolf
Everything.
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Capital One Announcer
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Zibby Owens
Yes, chef.
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Capital One Announcer
This is so nice.
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Ooh, tiramisu.
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- [33:22]
Zibby Owens
I got new shoes with toes.
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Capital One Announcer
Ew.
- [33:26]
Zibby Owens
He owned a race car that was also a bed. He smelled really familiar. Like my dad. After he washed his clothes, he left them in the washer too long.
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