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- [00:00]
Torre
Want to shop Walmart? Black Friday deals first. Walmart plus members get early access to our hottest deals. Join now and get 50% off a one year annual membership. Shop Black Friday deals first with Walmart plus see terms@walmartplus.com this is what you.
- [00:16]
Marc Jacobs
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- [00:45]
King Green
Welcome to Rap Latte, a deeper conversation about hip hop hosted by Me Torre, a veteran hip hop journalist and King Green, a longtime emcee. We get together every day and talk about hip hop, hot new albums, classic MCs. We're going through every aspect of this culture on a deeper level. Check out this EP about Tyler the Creator's amazing new album, Chromacopia, which Green and I both think is the best hip hop album of the year. Rap Latte is a podcast and a YouTube show, so check out Rap Latte on YouTube. Go to Raplatte to find us or listen to us on your favorite podcast app.
- [01:26]
Torre
I'm gonna get $1 million in the bank.
- [01:29]
King Green
Yo, I think we have heard the greatest rap album of the year.
- [01:35]
Torre
This is the greatest, greatest rap album. I think this is the greatest album of the year. This is album of the year for me.
- [01:39]
King Green
Well, let's slow down because Cowboy Carter came out this year. I don't wanna argue yet. Chromacopia versus Cowboy Carter. You gotta win the division that you're in first, right? If you're in the AFC east, you gotta win the af. You can't win the Super Bowls without getting through the AFC East. You might be a wild card, but you gotta. So, all right. I'm like, yo, this album is beautiful. It's powerful, it's mature, it's thoughtful. It's an amazing group of songs. I love the high energy songs. I love the beautiful, soft, vulnerable songs. I love this conversation about I'm trying to grow up. I love the mom sort of host interlude sort of thing. There's a lot going on here. And I was like, yo, let me look and see what else is coming out this year. We got a Snoop Dogg and Dr. Dre album.
- [02:30]
Torre
Okay.
- [02:30]
King Green
You know, I don't think there's gonna be this.
- [02:32]
Torre
And I don't think, yeah, what if there's a Kendrick album coming this year? What if, I mean, he's gonna wait till February?
- [02:42]
King Green
I have no idea. I mean, if I was Kendrick, I would absolutely do the super bowl and drop the album the next day. Right. But like, you know, maybe he'll drop this year. Who knows? If Kendrick comes out, we reopen the books. But right now I'm like, chromacopia is the best hip hop album of the year.
- [03:00]
Torre
Yes. And I'm saying album of the year. But you can go ahead and say hip hop album of the year because I, I'm not putting Cowboy Carter anywhere, like, in this space. I've. You said it like we were texted and you said it, that the album's already grown on you even more. And that's the, that's the, the note of a great and arguably classic album is when it just keeps on getting better. And this is where it is for me. At first I was like, yeah, this is good. And I like it. Now I'm like, no, no, this is changing things for me and other people around me. This is changing things for him. Like, I know my man sold 300,000 in this first week and it was only four days. It wasn't a full accounted week. Which shows you how much bullshit the whole entire Billboard system and all that system really is. Because it's like you talk about four days, does 300, which is what Kendrick did on his last project, which is what Drake did on his last project, basically. I think it was like three or four or something like that. But if he had a full seven, what would it be? So you just, you tack on those other days, it's gonna be that. So it's, it's, it's, it's just beautiful what's going on artistically, critically, acclaim wise and everything around this whole project.
- [04:11]
King Green
The world of Tyler that he's been sketching out with his music since day one. His father has been the villain of his music. The reason why he's this disaffected, fucked up kid who's mad at the world. Fuck my dad albums about. Fuck my dad. And then this one, he could. Yes, yes, for sure. Figuratively.
- [04:38]
Torre
All right.
- [04:39]
King Green
But then he turns it on its head. In this album, the universe of Tyler has changed in that, no, your father wanted to be part of your life. It's your beloved mother who kept him out. So now Tyler has to reassess what he thinks of his father and suddenly we get this beautiful song like him that deals with the love that he may have for his father and the relationship he may be trying to build with his father. And it's like a. It's a pretty song, it's a loving song. And, like, suddenly the villain of the Tyler universe has completely changed.
- [05:18]
Torre
If you would like to say it's a villain. But it's like, yeah, it's like his. His light, his North Star, his narrator, who's literally a narrator on this album, is telling. Is showing, like, oh, actually, I. I'm flawed. You know what I'm saying? Like, there is. There is a flaw in this story. And as you are flawed, which he's talking about within this, his paranoia, his flaws, his. His idea of himself, his strengths, his light, all of that. He's able to see that in his North Star in. In his mother. And I think that's just an amazing, like, full circle situation, which actually creates a. Wait a minute, what am I going to do now with this information? And that's what you get from that. At first, I was looking at this album like, it just kind of ends. I thought it just kind of ended. And I was like, what is. I see the theme and it just kind of falls flat. But then. And I see a lot of people talk about that when they're critiquing it, but I'm like, he doesn't know, as we don't know what's next. And that's the entire point, you know what I'm saying? It's like I'm. I'm trying to hold. The last track is what I hope you find your way home. It's like, yeah, like, I hope I find my way to. To peace. I hope I find my way to figure out what this was all about. And that's the thing that's, like, amazing about this album is like, at first I'm looking at it, like, almost incomplete. And then as you keep on going, you're like, oh, shit. Yeah. Like, life is incomplete. This album's incomplete.
- [06:41]
King Green
I mean, it's a bit of a Catcher in the Rye sort of situation.
- [06:45]
Torre
Yeah, yeah. On the lip of English class, 9th grade.
- [06:49]
King Green
The catcher in the Rye was a teenager. And he's obviously in, like, early, early, early 30s, right? But, like, should I have children? What will that look like? How will that change my life? You know, like a little bit of a fear of the near future, which is a constant theme throughout literature and music. But Tyler does it in this beautiful way and this powerful way, and somebody who had been this perpetual Child. He. Right. Hip hop for me is like, man children and child men. And Tyler is absolutely one of the child men who's been this perpetual child. And now he's talking about, you know, well, what if I grow up? Maybe I should grow up. I'm nervous about it, but I want to. But I'm thinking about it, and it's really powerful to see the person growing and struggling with that, but allowing it right in front of us. Because so much of hip hop is like, I don't want to grow up. And Tyler's like, I didn't. But now I see. Like, I kind of have.
- [07:52]
Torre
I see why it might be. It's like, I did grow up. Look at how I did grow up and how I don't want to grow up. And chromacopia is almost like. Like I have all these. Something he's talking about. He's like, I have all these options. I can do whatever I want. And that's almost even a chromacopia. Like this light, this bursting of all these things and ideas that I can do. And it's like, I don't want to let go of this light. And is this child or his maturity or responsibilities going to take away this world that I built for myself? That's like, what the battle is, is you're listen. You're like. When I. Now, when I listen to it, I'm like. I'm hearing, like, chroma copia. It's like, that's all that's on his mind. It's a chant that's like this mantra of, like, all these ideas, his life, this. This beautiful artistic world that he's built for himself. And then the album's about the things that can take it away from him. And it's like. Or could take away from him, which is his own maturity, responsibilities, real life, his history. And with. With his past and his mother. It's like, can these things. And how does the album start? Don't let nobody take this light away from you. And I was. I heard that today, and it, like, clicked for me. And I was like, this album is genius.
- [09:02]
King Green
Like, what did you think it means today when it clicked for you?
- [09:05]
Torre
Well, that's what I'm trying to say. Like, this world is this artistic world that he's built from himself, and he doesn't want to let go of chromacopia, chroma copia, chroma, the prefix color, copia being a burst of it. And it's like, this is just an abundance of color and light and opportunity. In his artistic world, he created this. And it's like, this is what you've created for yourself. And the first line is, don't let nobody take this light away from you. You know what I'm saying? It's like this. Like this colorful presentation that you created for yourself. Don't invite. Take that and make you dim it. And then it's like he's battling and tackling the concept of what is actually taking my light and what's actually increasing it. It's like, wait a minute, is the kid going to take that? It's like, oh, actually, will that kid be something good for me? Or is what. Is me knowing my father like, a catalyst to where I'm at right now? Or do I need to, like, make amends with him? And what about my mother? And what about my relationships? And all these things and options that he has in the world that he's built is his chromacopia. And the fact that you. You don't know what's actually in the paranoia of I don't know what's going to take this away from me or what does take it away from me, or what's stopping me from shining or what could stop me from shining.
- [10:26]
King Green
I appreciate the completeness of this project. Which reminds me, again, that Tyler is a complete artist. He comes at you with an album that has a vision. It is an album, not a collection of songs, which is what most albums are nowadays. An album with a vision, with a theme, where I'm making a point about my life, but there's also a color scheme that goes along with it and a font that goes along with it and an outfit and a hair color and a dance or a hair shape and a dance that goes along with it. Right? So I'm giving you this whole complete vision, which is something that a lot of emcees don't do and a lot.
- [11:07]
Torre
Of artists don't do well.
- [11:10]
King Green
Well, when you talk about the great R and B stars like a Beyonce, like a Michael Jackson, not saying Tyler is that their level, but they come out with a complete project that is a 360 vision of where I am as an artist right now. And Tyler is doing that. And it reminds me this is a level of artistic genius and output that is beyond most people in hip hop. And it shouldn't be like, well, you know, I like this song, but not that song. So every song that you don't like, somebody else loves that. I just had this conversation at the gym, Yo, I like this song, this song, this song. And the guy behind the desk was like, well, I like these three other songs.
- [11:50]
Torre
The songs. Yeah.
- [11:51]
King Green
The guy walking by was like, well, I like these others. So Tyler is going to touch somebody.
- [11:57]
Torre
You know how you can tell that's how it's happening is because, like, I think I was texting you about. About this before. Saint Chroma and Noid are on the top ten Billboard charts. Right? And it's the first time he broke the top 10. Saint Chrome is the first song. Noid is the third song, but it's third. But they're the first two songs that came out, so they were just able to get more plays. This entire thing is getting plays and run back over and over again. This is an alb being listened to from beginning to end by everybody. This is an album that you. I don't care what you say. Personally, it's. The stats say that there's no skips. You know what I'm saying? The stats are telling you that Every. Everything's within 5 to 10 million plays of each other. That's just because you're playing it from beginning to end. It's not like, huge. Usually artists have a song or a single, even if they drop the whole thing, something's clearly pushing out more than the other one. This one is not the same way. Even with Tyler, where he had Earthquake. Earthquake was a huge song on Igor, but then other songs started getting bigger as well. But it's Earthquake still stood out.
- [13:05]
King Green
You know, I. I compared.
- [13:08]
Torre
I want to touch on that one thing that you said about the complete artist One more time is like, go ahead. How important the fact that he has a visual aesthetic, graphic aesthetic, and a dance aesthetic for this entire thing. It's just.
- [13:25]
King Green
And a sartorial aesthetic.
- [13:27]
Torre
Yes, It's. It's. It's just. I don't know. Like you said, you have to talk about Michael Jackson and Beyonce because we don't see this. And Kanye, of course. And that's why I say this is like his graduation moment, because it's at that peak where graduation kind of changed everything in hip hop, where graduation verse 50 Cent happened. Right? I forgot that album, that 50 Cent. I forgot the name of the album, the 50 Cent album that it would verse. But when they had that verses and graduation sold 700, it like, changed the direction of where hip hop was going. And I think this is the exact same thing in real time that we're witnessing, that someone with this complete direction, someone with this much motion and artistic merit and drive to have all these things in it is this is a big canon point in hip hop. Like, this is now canon. Like you. I thought this. Go ahead. I thought that just as an album and we'll get into the dissecting the album. Right? But I thought as an album, I'm like, oh, I'm getting another Tyler moment. No, I'm getting a hip hop moment. I'm getting a cultural moment. That's what I'm realizing at this point.
- [14:39]
King Green
It's definitely a cultural moment. It's pushing the boundaries of hip hop a little bit because some of the songs are straight ahead hip hop sticky. You know, there's a bunch of songs that are like, you know, this is. This is straight ahead hip hop. But then there's other songs that are using melody and singing and all these different things that are, like, pushing the boundaries of, like, is this hip hop? Is it? And like, things that Kanye in future and Travis would do would be like, is this hip hop? And like, yes, it absolutely is. And we know hip hop can be anything. It can take on any form. It's like water that way. But sometimes we get so wrapped up in what is traditional or what is straight ahead hip hop aesthetics and.
- [15:26]
Torre
Yeah.
- [15:27]
King Green
Yes. And like, albums like this, like, just remind us, like, anything in hip hop. If you. Yes. If you have the right spirit to it.
- [15:37]
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- [16:08]
Marc Jacobs
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- [16:37]
Torre
100%. There's no rules. And it starts off with Saint Chroma. Like, when you hear it, you hear the marching, like drums and percussion. And he's whispering like he's doing like, we know whispering in hip hop happened so many times with the whisper track and all that, which makes you want to come closer. Right? That's the whole point of Whispering. It's like, come into my world. It's like come into this space. And then eats whispers for the whole time until the explosion of music happens. This crescendo just blow all these. This almost orchestra type of crescendo of all this music. And then he starts rapping over something that seems like a Warp Tribe Called Quest beat at the end. And as just so, so beautifully hip hop. And I'm hearing these jazz chords and rapping and Rest in peace, Quincy Jones. I'm just thinking about the, the. The. The through line between bebop, doo wop and hip hop and how that exists even in Tyler's music and house. How black music throughout is just in this album. Even though people look, I said this.
- [17:38]
King Green
Was the best hip hop album of the year, which kind of violates a rule that I have for myself where I feel like generally we should avoid comparing artists to other artists when we're talking about a very truly artistic, creative person, because that gets into a weird space. Compare the artist to themselves. Right. That's more effective.
- [17:59]
Torre
And yeah, that's what I usually do. Yeah.
- [18:01]
King Green
Is Tyler.
- [18:02]
Torre
But you could say who's. You could say something's the best album of the year, though. That's why I don't even say hip hop, because I feel like it's. You can minimize it.
- [18:10]
King Green
But this is. But more important, this is Tyler's greatest album. This is Tyler's greatest musical statement. This is where he has outdone himself, which is kind of bizarre to be able to do it 14 years into your career.
- [18:25]
Torre
But like, he also started when he was like 18.
- [18:29]
King Green
That's what's most exciting to me, that he came in hot. He's been making great music all along and now he's gone to a whole other level that is being embraced critically and commercially.
- [18:43]
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- [19:30]
Torre
Awkward, isn't it?
- [19:32]
Home Depot
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- [19:39]
King Green
Know the real cost of vapes brought.
- [19:41]
Home Depot
To you by the fda?
- [19:44]
Torre
Yeah, I think that's exactly what this moment is. And that's why I called it a graduation moment. It's just him completely putting everything together to make everything work at all cylinders where some people might not. Really. My harp on like Yo Egor is. Has more melody and it was. It's a more perfectly looped album. Or Flower Boy songwriting, the songwriting in that. Or like Call me if you get lost, I think is more of his hip hop, more rap album he has. But this is all of those put together. Like, I like to say that. See, what's it called? I was gonna see you again. The Flower Boy album. That is like an alt rap album, right? And then the. The Igor album is an alt pop album. And then the Call me if you get lost album is literally just a rap album. It's Tyler's rap album. This one is an alt pop rap album. It is all three. It's everything that he's tried to go in every direction all at one time because he wants to. That's. That's what's interesting about that. And he accomplished that. So I can't. So I can say that it's his. It's his. It's his greatest achievement. I will say that this is great.
- [20:56]
King Green
I saw an interesting Tick Tock.
- [20:58]
Torre
Not my favorite greatest achievement.
- [21:00]
King Green
Wait, what's your favorite. This is not your favorite Tyler album?
- [21:04]
Torre
Nah, it's a tie between Flower Boy and Call me if you get lost. Just aesthetically, the sounds.
- [21:08]
King Green
So this is third at best for you?
- [21:12]
Torre
This is third at best for me as my personal favorite. But like, that's. This is. That's all of his albums. He's like, that's nuts.
- [21:20]
King Green
I got you.
- [21:21]
Torre
I got you.
- [21:22]
King Green
So, so interesting. Tick Tock, guys.
- [21:25]
Torre
You even like his other albums? No, we're good to you. Do you even like his other album?
- [21:29]
King Green
I do like the other albums. I honestly, Doug, I liked Wolf at Goblin more than.
- [21:38]
Torre
That's crazy.
- [21:39]
King Green
Flower Boy, Igor. Like, I like. That's crazy. I like Certain.
- [21:43]
Torre
You're kind of out of focus. I'm a stop you now but I don't know why. Yeah, lean there. There you go.
- [21:49]
King Green
I got too close. I. I like Wolf and Goblin more. They spoke to me so much. I thought they were so funny. What are you, a 15 year old boy? Well, no. Well, I mean, deep down inside, yes. But like, you know, I understood. Oh, he is mocking that sort of vein of hip hop. And I love the gore of it. The mess of it, the fun. I thought it was hysterical. I understood he has gone in a much deeper mission, thoughtful direction. It just wasn't killing me. Like, there were certain songs I wanted to listen to, but I didn't want to sit there and luxuriate over those whole albums. The way that I keep playing Chroma Copia from top to bottom again and again and again and getting wrapped up in the. The highs of Sticky and the beauty of different things. Today I was getting into Judge Judy, which, you know, like. Like you said, like. Like when you get an album that really sticks to you, the whole album, and you start off loving one song and then you move to another song and then you come to it anew on the next day and you start with a different song. You're like, I want to zone in on this other. And I'm finding myself moving around the album and moving from the high energy points to the sweeter, more vulnerable joints.
- [23:07]
Torre
There's a lot of high energy on this. And there was a lot of high energy in the middle of his. I mean, his beginning of the career. Maybe that's something that you kind of to attach. I mean, are attracted to with him as an artist. He is really good at that. And he kind of kind of escaped that a little bit with those other albums, like that type of energy. And he came with energy on this album that really isn't on the other albums if people are really taking in the scope of his work. So I do agree with that. Is that I enjoy the energy on this album and the stickiness of things that are not traditional. Like, there's not this traditional chorus. Like Judge Judy isn't some beautifully written chorus of like the top choruses all time. But it sticks to you. You. And. And same thing with. There's so much of that on here where it's like these thought I was dead. I was like, that means so much. And it's like, what. What are we saying here? But let. Maybe we should like break down tracker track of how we kind of feel it. We talked about St. Chroma right after that is, I believe, Ratata. Right.
- [24:15]
King Green
It's that high energy, like. And it kind of has. There's a lot of this throughout the album of this song specifically. There's different, like movements or moments to it.
- [24:27]
Torre
Yeah, moments.
- [24:28]
King Green
Right. So I'm like listening to it. I'm like, have we gone through three songs? Did I like, go to the next? Like, no, no. This song changes the grows. Do what? Like talk about that?
- [24:39]
Torre
Yeah, that's. And that's my favorite thing of this album, I'll say, is the motion. The linear, gradual, linear, like, progressions that happen here. The moments that he gives you. And when we say moments, we're talking about when you hear a little. A little flute sound come in, and that's the only time it comes out on the. On the track. That's a moment, you know what I'm saying? When he, like, crescendos and then stops and then it just goes down to a breakdown. These are moments, and it happens throughout the entire album. And Ra, from him just rapping, coming in with that energy and that Kanye, like, industrial snare that's hitting the whole time. You just feel. And the roar of the distorted bass. You feel that energy the entire time. And it feels like something on Wolf or like his old stuff, but a little bit more mature in the production. And then he's just like, 40, 000 on me. 50, 000 on me. I'm. I'm in. I'm in at that. At that point. That moment means so. So it's like I said all these things of, like, who I am in this hip hop atmosphere right now. I'm telling you what I've been through. I don't want any of these. I also. I'm also talking tough while saying, yo, I'm not trying to talk tough, but I'm just letting y'all know that I'm like, I'll get something done if I need to have it done. He's saying everything. And then it's. And then it's like almost realizing, man, I'm rich as 40,000 on me, 50,000 on me. I'm like, this. It.
- [26:06]
King Green
It is.
- [26:06]
Torre
It's amazing. And then it culminates beautifully because you can't have this. This emotion without actually having some cerebral thought. I'm paranoid. Like, at the end of it, it's like. Is weird. And I'm parent. Like, I'm just trying to. I'm just trying to show my light. I'm trying to be like, yo, I'm the one. I'm the guy. I'm showing my light. And it's like, wait a minute, why are you around me? Why are these people here?
- [26:30]
King Green
Y'all weird. Are really bumps.
- [26:32]
Torre
Yeah, I'm paranoid.
- [26:34]
King Green
But see, this is. This is part of what I'm talking about with Tyler as an artist. So many times, hip hop is mc gets a beat from the producer. The beat is pretty much done right. The MC rides over the beat in a compelling way, right? Adds on a chorus if necessary, adds on a hook. That's the song.
- [26:55]
Torre
Or get somebody else to get the chorus right.
- [26:58]
King Green
Right. And that's the song. With someone like Tyler, he is making the music and the vocals as one sonic piece because he's an artist, because he's a true musician. So you're gonna have movements and moments in the piece where I know I don't wanna jump ahead, but I killed you. Right. Starts with rhythm and then devolves into this beautiful moment of melody and sweetness, which would be appropriate on a soul music album. And you're like, how did I get from that to this? But like, someone like Tyler can give you a dynamic flow from one musical place to another, where so many songs can be great, but it's like, you know, I made a hot beat, I made a hot rhyme, and then we smushed them together.
- [27:52]
Torre
They're predictable. It's honestly, this is how I knew things changed. Certain other people's musics instantly started feeling bland. Like, other people, new people. Wow. I was listening to new things that came out over the weekend. I'm like, this feels like you ain't got no seasoning. Like, it feels like, where's the sauce? And that's when I realized, yo, this is going to affect so many artists and producers and writers. Because it affected me. Within seven days, I heard other people's music and I'm like, this is bland. It's like, where's the what? He's missing something. Like, I'm like, over here.
- [28:29]
King Green
He's also pushing you to be more vulnerable because he's being extremely vulnerable, which is similar to what we saw on say, Mr. Morale and the Big Steppers. Real, honest, personal vulnerability. Here are mistakes that I have made. Here are things that I am truly struggling with. And that level of confessionalism is really powerful. And I would love to see that become a gauntlet that, like, if you want to be a great high level rapper, you gotta like, put your heart on the track. Like, tell them who you really are and what's really going on.
- [29:08]
Torre
And it's like a progression of that. Cause I think that's always been the case. Right. Like, the personal story has always made you a superstar. Like, you've have, like, you have your black thoughts. You have people who are we all regard as these great spitters, but they're not these personal superstars because they don't. We don't know their story, their narrative.
- [29:27]
King Green
Yes.
- [29:28]
Torre
So that narrative makes you a superstar. But now it can't just be the narrative you want to portray. We need to see the true vulnerability in your story. We need to see like some sort of reality. We gotta. It's gotta get grounded somehow in some way where it's like. No, there's authenticity in that. Because I feel like the story has just been copy and reproduced between every artist. Like, we all have this. We've seen the rags to riches like a mate 8 million times. We've seen the glorified kingpin 8 million times. And those were true stories for certain artists. It's just that now we're getting different stories. And I think that's the actual change. It's like, wait a minute, I'm hearing something else. And being done.
- [30:12]
King Green
We have loved the street guy pitching story. We love. Yeah, right. I mean, there was a period of time, what, 90s early double Os when you had to have come from the corner from.
- [30:27]
Torre
Yeah, late 90s early double Os to.
- [30:30]
King Green
Be a major level MC. Right. Like that had your resume.
- [30:34]
Torre
Yeah, yeah.
- [30:35]
King Green
I mean, maybe they were. Maybe they. But let's at least say that you were.
- [30:38]
Torre
Yeah.
- [30:39]
King Green
Now are we starting to get into. I'm going to have a conversation with you about my real life and, like, what's going on with me, really. And we started to talk about this, that the brother on TikTok who I, who I sent to you said, okay, it's 444 by Jay Z. That really starts this modern era of true confessionalism where people are talking about their real lives. And that is a really sort of deep place to start this whole conversation.
- [31:14]
Torre
I can. I can see that take. I kind of like that take where it's like 444. After what happened in that elevator and those three albums that came out of that is Lemonade, Solange's album and Jay Z's album, which are not my. It's one of my favorite Jay Z albums. It's not the number one, but it's at times I feels like that because I love that album. I love 444. And those two other albums are my favorite from the other artists, Beyonce and Solange. So I'm saying, like, I see that because I know that that album for actual artists who, like Tyler and. And Kendrick, they heard that album, they loved it, they understood what it meant for Jay Z to make this album too. That's the real thing. It's not an artist coming out of nowhere that you don't know. It's not. It's the coolest guy in the world saying, I got to kill Jay Z. The coolest guy. Our whole entire life saying, I got to kill Jay Z. Let me rip out. Let me get some therapy. Let me rip the layers back. Let me talk about all the things that a grown man needs to talk about as well.
- [32:20]
King Green
And the guy who purposefully does not talk about his emotions because he does not want to be hurt, going back to when his father abandoned the family when he was 10. And, like, anything I can do to protect my heart, I will do that. I'm not giving you shit. And now he's like, I had this relationship. This shit happened. Like, that was amazing. And it's amazing that it's spawning other people going in the same direction. It's. It's crazy. And it's. It's. You know, it's a little bit different than what happened with My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy. Right? Because that was. I feel that was emotionally confessional. Like, here's how I feel about what's going on. But did he tell you things that you didn't already know about his life in that moment?
- [33:13]
Torre
To a. To a degree. But I think just because he's. His life is more out there in the public doesn't mean it's not vulnerable. I think Conde is probably the. One of the most vulnerable artists in rap or period. When you. When, like, it's always out on Front Street. Yeah, I don't think he's. I don't think he's telling. The problem is Kanye's not always saying everything with the lyric and the word okay. Sometimes he's saying it with the album in the project. My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy in the name itself tells you how he feels about his life and where he was at that time. Just in the name. It's like, look at everything. It's literally kind of like chromacopia when you think about it. It's like, look at all the things around you. Look at all the things that I've cheated, and is this gonna swallow me up? I'm being swallowed up by my own ambitions, my own desires. I can't cope with. With the. My past, his own personal past. And the people. He. He lost the people and all that. That's. That whole album was about a relationship. The album before that was about a relationship as well as his mom. So you. So it's there. It's in. It's in the writing. It's in the art.
- [34:25]
King Green
You bring up 808s, he'll give it to you in the feeling, right? 808s. I was like, oh, he's talking about his mom. And I think he talks About Alexis more overtly, but you're really talking about your mom. You're really grieving here. But does.
- [34:39]
Torre
Yeah, like, coldest winter, like, goodbye, my love. Talking about you never. Like, you'll never see. It's like, basically, you. You could take that, interpret that as, like, I'm never gonna see my mom for Christmas ever again. On that song, he's saying that, goodbye, my love, will I ever love again? And you're thinking of it as a relationship. It's like, no memories fade in the coldest winter. It's like, my winters are the worst. Like, you got to think about it that way. So it's like, just because it might not be overt writing and so blatant as 444 or Mr. Morale is telling you, like, tell them the truth. This is what I did. You know, I'm trying to say he said it, and he'll. He'll make relations, and he has other people who are writing these words for his life and. And creating these concepts. So I think it's definitely there. And I think that's also an inspiration to all these other artists as well. Obviously, we know that Tyler's influenced Kanye's influences. Tyler album, same course with Ken, same thing with Kendrick and Jay Z. Because I think. I think I just. I heard somewhere that on 444, Jay was wanted. Would have wanted Kanye to do the whole album. And it's like, who do you get if you can't get Kanye? I'm gonna get no id, his mentor.
- [35:56]
King Green
So I want to go through every song of this with you. We're only through two. Can we come back and do the rest of the songs tomorrow?
- [36:06]
Torre
We can make this a double. Double episode. I think it deserves that.
- [36:13]
King Green
For sure, for sure.
- [36:14]
Torre
For sure.
- [36:14]
King Green
All right, let's do that. Let's do the. Let's do the last 12 songs tomorrow and try to come up with a big idea of what is going on in this record. Because, like, one of the great artists of our time is talking and has released something magnum. And I think, you know, you would never put Tyler on the list of greatest MCs of the day. Right? He's not that kind of spitter. But as a communicator, this is a great rapper who is telling deep, interesting, compelling stories about his life that are hitting both of us and millions of other people right in the heart. And that's what a great rapper does, communicate 3,000%.
- [37:00]
Torre
Like, that's. That's exactly what it is. And I think that when we think about, like, spitters we think about lyricism and punchlines and all these. And those are those things. That's its own talent. That's its own muscle. But this person is an amazing writer, and he's he needs to be respected as a lyricist. And like you said, he's a great rapper. So let's get tackle this tomorrow. Let's go through every single track today. We just kind of gave our thoughts about, you know, a week later how great this album is. And it just gets better with time. And that shows you it's a classic. I think it's instant classic already. All right.
- [37:32]
King Green
All right, Rap Latte. We'll see you tomorrow. Thanks for listening to Rap Latte. A deeper conversation about hip hop. Check out me and Green talking about hip hop three times a week as a podcast and a YouTube show.