Loading summary
Transcript171 lines
- [00:00]
Detavio Samuels
Hey, it's Mandy Moore, Sterling K. Brown and Chris Sullivan from that Was Us.
- [00:06]
Toure
Spring is finally here, and if you're like us, you're looking for little ways to bring new energy into your home. Starting with your bed.
- [00:14]
Detavio Samuels
I love everything about Brooklinen. I love the variety of colors, I love the texture. I love the coolness up against my skin. I'm a man who runs hot. These sheets keep your boy cool, and I love them. Brooklinen makes it so easy to refresh your space with layers that feel light, breathable, and so comfortable. Finding sheets you love can be tricky, but Brooklinen nails it every time.
- [00:38]
Toure
Brooklinen offers so many different tones and textures, which is great since new colors can make your bedroom feel fresh and inviting. Plus, their lightweight, airy fabrics are perfect for sun kissed mornings and cozy nights.
- [00:51]
Detavio Samuels
And the best part, Brooklinen has everything you need from soft sheets to the perfect throw blankets. To style and layer your bed effortlessly. It's no wonder they have over 100,000 five star reviews. People love them. So if you're ready to refresh your space, now is the time.
- [01:08]
Toure
Shop award winners and fan faves in store and online@brooklinen.com that's B R O O K L I n e n dot com. Get 15% off your first order today.
- [01:21]
Detavio Samuels
So he is. There's no relationship.
- [01:23]
Toure
There's zero relationship. There's zero connection to the brand.
- [01:27]
Detavio Samuels
Officially.
- [01:28]
Toure
Officially.
- [01:29]
Detavio Samuels
But most people, if you ask them about Revolt, they would still say, oh, the thing.
- [01:33]
Toure
Puff Star, you can never take the fact that he was the founder away. Right, right, right. I mean, that just, that's part of history forever. Right?
- [01:39]
Detavio Samuels
So is there some work that you need to do as a brand to re educate or to get past, like, I know you feel like that about him. That's not part of who we are anymore.
- [01:50]
Toure
I think we're past that work. I think, you know, we made the announcement more than a year ago that he stepped down as vice chairman. We made the announcement in June that he was 100% off the cap table. And so maybe in my 2023 and 2024, we were having to do that work. But today we're not having. The brand is so strong, T Ray. The brand is so strong. Like, one of the biggest blessings that we had as we navigated the last year is we didn't lose any employees, we didn't lose any clients or brand partners. We didn't lose any of our talent. Right. Everybody was there for Revolt. And so no, I think, you know, for me I'm hoping and praying and believing that that period of time, that history is behind us. Victor Ray show okay, though. Detour Ray show okay, though. That might be the best question I've ever been asked. You's a phenomenal person. I mean, you legendary. I am a fan of you, my bro.
- [02:49]
Detavio Samuels
Detavio Samuels is the CEO of Revolt. I want to talk to him about the challenges of running a black media company in this day and age. Dealing with the cold winds of the Trump administration as a media company and what it's like having Diddy as this shadow hanging over the brain. Let's get into it. It's detavio Samuels, the CEO of Revolt on tour. Ray Show. How are you?
- [03:21]
Toure
I'm blessed. I'm blessed. It's good to be here.
- [03:23]
Detavio Samuels
Yeah. How's it going? CEO of Revolt. That's a big job.
- [03:27]
Toure
It's a big job. It's a fun job. I'm blessed.
- [03:30]
Detavio Samuels
How do you get prepared is in your life to be the CEO of a big media company?
- [03:37]
Toure
Yeah, it's one of the, like, I don't know that there's a. A direct pathway. But I'll tell you from my story, I feel like everything God put me in position to do during my entire life prepared me for this moment. You know, I started off my career, I went to Duke Undergrad, Stanford Business School, did an MA in education in my mba, and I came out doing global marketing at Johnson and Johnson. Right. So that one gave me a global view, but made me more importantly for this moment. It taught me how marketers think, how marketers choose ideas, how marketers work with advertising partners, media partners, et cetera. I left there and went to Global Hue. At the time, Global Hue was the number one multicultural agency. We were doing black, Latinx, Asian, all under one roof. No one was doing it. We flipped it from multicultural to doing total market. I was running Jeep general market business in the nation. And the agency side of the business taught me the power of ideas. They taught me how to sell ideas into clients. Right. How do you make a deck and unlock 5 million, 10 million, $15 million from a marketing partner. But then what was happening at Global Hue at the time? This is back in like 2012, 2013, 2014. I was getting tired of making ads, things that people wanted to ignore and skip. And we started doing what we would consider today more like branded content. We were the people behind the deal with Chrysler. We put Beats by Dre speakers and Chrysler's Jeeps and Dodges and Fiats.
- [05:05]
Detavio Samuels
That was your team's idea.
- [05:06]
Toure
Correct. And this is before, you know, the T Mobile deal or any of those deals. We were running around New York seeing young black and brown kids wearing these different headphones. And we're like, that's the thing. And so props to the CMO of Chrysler at the time, Olivier Francois. He took the idea and ran with it and we promoted it through music videos. Will I am 50 Cent, Carly Rae Jepsen. I was seeing how everyone was ignoring our commercials, but 200 million views on the Carly Rae Jepsen video. Right. We had a mini movie with Lenny Kravitz. So I just start seeing the power of branded entertainment. So I start to learn that the intersection of how do you take a brand message but put it into content that people actually want to consume? And then from there, I went to the media side. I went to go work with the legendary Kathy Hughes. Alfred Liggins. Right, exactly. And that's where I really get to learn the media side. That's where I start to develop my digital chops. And that's why, for the first time, get to create content that is with the consumer in mind first versus another advertiser or brand in mind. And also key to what I do now. I built out their digital platform and built an agency inside of a media company. So then Fast forward to 2020 when I come to Revolt. What do I think the assignment is? Take us into the digital world. I just been doing that. Right. We got to grow our advertising business significantly. I've already known or learned, bumped my head a bunch of times trying to figure out how to build an agency inside of a media company. So I know how to run that play. I know how to create decks and sell to marketers, unlock millions of dollars through big ideas. Right. So what I would say is Steve Jobs has this incredible speech from Stanford where he talks about the dots never connect going forward. They always connect backwards. So how did I get prepared? Following my dreams, following my heart, following the things that kept me alive and made me excited. And then I woke up and looked and said, God has prepared me for the very moment that I'm in just by following my heart and the path that was set in front of me.
- [07:09]
Detavio Samuels
That's beautiful. But I want to zoom in on one last part of it. So you before Revolt, you were at.
- [07:16]
Toure
Urban One with Kathy Hughes and not for Liggins.
- [07:18]
Detavio Samuels
So how do you get to Revolt? Is it a headhunter who calls you or you're aware of something?
- [07:23]
Toure
Yeah, that's an interesting story. So about. I hope he doesn't get mad at me for telling this story. I'm not sure I've told it before. I took over the digital business at UrbanOne. I think in 2016. I'm running an interactive one. I1 digital is what we call it now. And we needed an enterprise wide strategy for Urban One. And Alfred Liggins had found a consultant and invited me to come to the meeting with him in D.C. because I ran digital. This guy was going to talk about the enterprise wide digital strategy. Anyways, we're sitting in this room. I walk the consultant out on the way out to the elevator and I tell him, I have your back. While you're here, there's an entire digital company. We all get it. Headquartered out in New York. We will help you be successful on your journey. So me and his gentleman develop a great friendship over the course of 18 months working together. Right. So he probably ejects out of the system. 2018, let's call it right. October of 2019, the folks at Revolt call him and tell them they need him to find them the next CEO for Revolt. He walks out of that room, picks up the phone and calls me and says I found the next gig. You had the first call. The very first call.
- [08:34]
Detavio Samuels
Based on really make sure the relationship was good.
- [08:39]
Toure
That's right.
- [08:39]
Detavio Samuels
Just intrinsically. Not like this person can help me get to here, but just here's the person in front of me. I'm gonna just super serve you too. And then he's like that guy.
- [08:50]
Toure
That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And so, you know, to this moment, to this day, I debate whether I would have even interviewed for the job if it wasn't for him. But because it was a personal connection, because I trusted him, I showed up and interviewed. And so first interviews were October 2019. Again, I was the first one. So I think they weren't convinced. So they weren't looking around for a while. And then we found our way back together in the middle of 2020.
- [09:16]
Detavio Samuels
Wow, wow, wow. It's interesting that you said you might not have even taken the interview if not for the trusted advisor in the middle.
- [09:29]
Toure
Absolutely.
- [09:30]
Detavio Samuels
So you had reservations about the company.
- [09:34]
Toure
Yeah. At the time, to be honest. Right. I'm in Urban One, we're competing every day. I was never running up against Revolt from a competitive standpoint. Right. So they were kind of had lost their way on my own radar, I think. Two, I was always going to have a little bit of pause about working with major talent and celebrities. I think my first boss, Don Coleman, Ex football player was talent. I think Kathy Hughes is talented, but working with the founder of Revolt is talent on a different level. Right. So I always knew. Exactly. So I always knew what celebrity could come with. So I probably would have been hesitant around that. And so I just wasn't sure that it would have been something that I would have jumped at. But with the right relationship got me in the door. I had a conversation with the team Tarek, who was running all of Combs Global at the time, who became my dear brother. And, uh, Harvard mba, first meeting, Harvard mba comes in with a T shirt, sneakers. I'm looking at him going, okay, well if he can be successful here, I can be successful here.
- [10:34]
Detavio Samuels
Right.
- [10:35]
Toure
And so it opened the door to where I am now, and I couldn't be more grateful.
- [10:39]
Detavio Samuels
So on running a network aimed at black people, what is the particular challenge? You know, there are other players in the world, not just all the bets of, of it all, but also There's a whole YouTube world that you have to, that you have to compete with.
- [11:02]
Toure
Sure.
- [11:03]
Detavio Samuels
Right. If I'm. Before I watch Karisha or you know, drink champs, I might think, well, I'll go over here and watch this over here. So how do you see it?
- [11:13]
Toure
Yeah. I think the biggest challenge in running a black owned media company is like every other black owned business in the world. We're resource constrained. Right. So the question is, how do you go to war with people who have nuclear weapons and all you have is a water gun. Right. How do I.
- [11:31]
Detavio Samuels
Who are the superpowers who have the nuclear weapons?
- [11:34]
Toure
All of the big boys that you know, Netflix, billions of dollars into content, Paramount plus Disney, Amazon Prime, Hulu. Right. Massive people.
- [11:43]
Detavio Samuels
You're even in competition with all of that.
- [11:45]
Toure
Yeah, because it's an attention game. Right. Like people don't care how much money you have. It's attention and who can occupy attention. And so when you have people who can put billions of dollars into content and you're working with a fraction of that. Right. It's difficult. So I would say that's the number one challenge. I think there's also a core business challenge. I think it's really difficult, relatively impossible to build a company that is only focused on targeting black media. I think targeting black audiences, I think it's one of the challenges that we've had with black media scaling. And so I think you also have to realize that if only going to focus on our audience, meaning black people, you're always going to run into a plateau. Right. You're always going to have A ceiling. And so that's why Revolt has been very focused on centering black culture, centering our story, centering our voices. But everybody is invited. So we say, you know hip hop, 70% of people consume hip hop are white people.
- [12:40]
Detavio Samuels
Yeah.
- [12:40]
Toure
Right. So for us, it's like the DJs black, the music's black, but everybody's invited. Yeah, that's the only way you can build a media company.
- [12:48]
Detavio Samuels
Everybody's invited. But you have Koresha.
- [12:52]
Toure
That's right.
- [12:52]
Detavio Samuels
You have Soulja Boy, you have Nori. Great talent. I mean, a lot of these people I think are black famous in that white people don't even know who they are.
- [13:03]
Toure
Right.
- [13:03]
Detavio Samuels
And we're like, yes, Nori, yes. We want to hear from Karisha. Like, we all remember Soulja Boy. We know these, but they don't. So I'm. I'm. Yeah.
- [13:12]
Toure
No, so Karisha is one of my favorite ones. Like, I walk into a Fortune 50 company and they're one of the first people to ask me, when is the next episode of Caresha coming? I'm talking about CMOs, I'm talking about VPs, I'm talking about SVP's. It's been really mind blowing.
- [13:27]
Detavio Samuels
So you see a lot of love for Caresha among white folks.
- [13:29]
Toure
For sure. For sure. Surprisingly. What's your number one champion and high power black people? Caresha and drink champs. So if you look at BET award, Hip Hop awards is giving award to the most loved, most popular podcasts over the last two or three years has been drink champs and Karisha basically one and two for the last few years. And those are both the ones that are on our platform. So those are the two. Those are the two bangers.
- [13:51]
Detavio Samuels
Yeah, yeah.
- [13:52]
Toure
And then in terms of like the audience, our audience is 66% people of color, about 33% white. And so our whole story is we reach everybody, we are cross cultural, but we over index with those audiences that people every brand needs. I have the most valuable audience in the world. Right. When you look at who's driving population growth, non Hispanic, white going like this, black and brown going like this. Right. So I touch everybody. Black, white, brown, blue, purple. But my core audience, the 66%, are actually the ones that are driving growth in America.
- [14:25]
Detavio Samuels
The 33% of white folks who are watching you, what is their favorite show?
- [14:30]
Toure
Oh, that one. I don't know.
- [14:32]
Detavio Samuels
Okay, you don't have any. I'm just curious.
- [14:35]
Toure
That was a good question.
- [14:36]
Detavio Samuels
What they're showing up for.
- [14:37]
Toure
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But again, the core of it for Us again, where most of the attention or where a large portion of the attention that revolt gets comes from a drink champs comes from.
- [14:46]
Detavio Samuels
You're primarily millennials, right?
- [14:49]
Toure
Yeah, we would say young millennial, older Gen z. So like 28 is like my bullseye.
- [14:54]
Detavio Samuels
Okay.
- [14:55]
Toure
Yeah. But 18 to 34. But 28 is like my bullseye.
- [14:58]
Detavio Samuels
Okay, so what is, what are some of the challenges specifically to broadcasting to that younger millennial, older zoomer person?
- [15:09]
Toure
Yeah, one of the biggest challenges is just that trying to get their attention. And as people are younger, a lot of times they haven't really bought into. Let me. That's exactly it. Right. So it's social media, it's creators, which is why we have an entire strategy that is fueled by creators. Right. So if you think about the way that most media companies talk about their programming, they talk about it from a show perspective. But we very often are very like, it's the creator, it's Karisha. Karisha's audience. If you love her, if you're a fan of her, come over here. It's Nori's audience. If you're a fan of Nori, come over here. Right. If you're a fan of Soulja Boy. So we're very creator driven and it's one of our big kind of ways to kind of break through the clutter and find the audience that we bring.
- [15:56]
Detavio Samuels
To bring to people, not the show.
- [15:58]
Toure
That's exactly right.
- [15:59]
Detavio Samuels
Because they'll be interested in Koresha more than the show.
- [16:04]
Toure
Yeah. If you have, even if you just have something like a drink Champs was very popular. If you, if you don't know Drink Champs, I don't know that you see a show that's just, that's, that's anchored in drinking and hip hop stories and decide to tune in. But if you love Nori, if you love DJ efn, you show up. Right. I'm trying to think of another show that we can use as a, as another reference point. We have Overtime Hustle with Speedy Mormon, of course, my show the Black Print, but very much again, just been anchored in. It's the creator that fuels it. Here's a great example. This week we've been talking about the launch of Revolt Sports. We launched Revolt Sports this week with a flagship show called I Am Athlete. It's Revolt Sports Weekly powered by I Am Athlete, but the creator behind it is Brandon Marshall. So we spent the whole week doing press with Brandon Marshall because it's not just about the show, it's about, it's about the creator for us.
- [16:58]
Detavio Samuels
That's the O Cinco show, right, for them.
- [17:02]
Toure
No, no, it's. It's four, but not O Cinco.
- [17:05]
Detavio Samuels
Okay.
- [17:06]
Toure
Yeah. This is Brandon Marshall, Kayla, Nicole, trying to think with. Yeah. The other two. Michael Sims, and what's my other brother's name? She'll tell me in a second. But you got Fat Joe. We had Fat Show. Fat Joe. Fat Joe is a. Is. Is. Is a testament to the revolt, like legacy. And so when revolt, think, and because we're so creator driven, the way that we want to see our legacy left impacted in the world is that we took these creators in, maybe when they were small, maybe when nobody was paying attention to them as content creators. You pay attention to Fat Joe as a musician, but you pay attention to him as a content creator. Right? We got Fat Joe. Fat Joe starts doing this show on Instagram. Instagram lives. We grab that show, bring it over to Revolt, turn it into linear tv, Cable. Cable television. And now my man's launching a show on Starz. Right. That, for us, is a victory because we feel like we got to play a role in this tremendous evolution.
- [18:04]
Detavio Samuels
He left you?
- [18:05]
Toure
Yeah, he. I mean, you could say left. We always tell creators we don't mind. Right. Like, again, this is a. Our job is not to hoard talent. Our job is to take black and brown creators who are impacting culture, get them to the next level, and if we can stay together for 10 years, cool. If in four years, they need to go jump to somebody else, all good. It is our dream to be able to nurture creators during their entire life cycle, from beginning to kind of end. So that's the path that we're working on, but we're definitely not in the business of hoarding talent. We want to set these people up to go win, wherever that is.
- [18:39]
Detavio Samuels
Hey, it's Mandy Moore, Sterling K. Brown, and Chris Sullivan from that Was Us.
- [18:44]
Toure
Spring is finally here, and if you're like us, you're looking for little ways to bring new energy into your home, starting with your bed.
- [18:52]
Detavio Samuels
I love everything about Brooklinen. I love the variety of colors. I love the texture. I love the coolness up against my skin. I'm a man who runs hot. These sheets keep your boy cool, and I love them. Brooklinen makes it so easy to refresh your space with layers that feel light, breathable, and so comfortable. Finding sheets you love can be tricky, but Brooklinen nails it every time.
- [19:16]
Toure
Brooklinen offers so many different tones and textures, which is great, since new colors can make your bedroom feel fresh and inviting. Plus, their lightweight, airy fabrics are perfect for sun kissed mornings and cozy nights.
- [19:30]
Detavio Samuels
And the best part, Brooklinen has everything you need from soft sheets to the perfect throw blankets. To style and layer your bed effortlessly, it's no wonder they have over 100,000 five star reviews. People love them. So if you're ready to refresh your space, now is the time.
- [19:47]
Toure
Shop award winners and fan faves in store and online at brooklinen.com that's B R O-O-K L I N E N.com get 15% off your first order today.
- [20:01]
Detavio Samuels
When I look at your slate, the one person who I'm like, I bet he causes a problem. I bet he's the one who most of phone calls about. He said, what? What am I supposed to do? You know who I'm talking about?
- [20:16]
Toure
No, not yet.
- [20:16]
Detavio Samuels
Yeah, you do.
- [20:17]
Toure
Who?
- [20:17]
Detavio Samuels
It's Jason. Jason Lee. Most most likely to be like. He said what? Right. Out of everybody you got, he's the one most likely to like.
- [20:28]
Toure
Jason Lee has been a good buddy. You know, I know that the reputation can be, that he can be difficult to work with, but from my standpoint, Jason Lee and I have a tremendous relationship.
- [20:39]
Detavio Samuels
I'm not talking about anything off bike. I don't know anything off bike. I just mean when he gets in the show and gets in his thing, you don't know what's gonna come out of his head.
- [20:49]
Toure
No, but we love that. But we love that. That is why creators come to revolt. Because here you are unleashed. Here you are unlocked. You can say whatever you want and be whoever. If you go sign a show with some other big network, they're going to force you into their box. Here you get to be unboxed. That's one of my things that I hate about what I see people do with the culture. Sometimes I use the example of like Snoop Dogg at the super bowl, right? They, they had super Snoop Dogg come to the Super Bowl. We all know Snoop Dogg is three things. Two things we know about Snoop, my man is a crip and he smoke weed. They tell him he can come to the super bowl and perform, but you can't smoke weed and you can't fly your flag, right? Like, why would you do that? Those are the things that we know. Those are the things that we love. And of course, what does he do when he gets on stage? He does exactly that thing, right? So at Revolt, you don't have to do it as an act of rebellion. We are going to accept you the way that you are. It's one of our biggest sales points for creators.
- [21:43]
Detavio Samuels
Okay, so then are you, like, scouting.
- [21:46]
Toure
YouTube to see, like, 100%. Think about this as, like, you know, a core capability is just a. And ring. We think about it a lot. Like, music. Right. Always in the market, whether we're in the clubs, on YouTube, on TikTok, looking for, like, who's getting ready to pop. Fat Joe was an Instagram live show. Karisha Please was an Instagram live show with saucy Santana. Right. Like, so we're finding these things before they pop, and then we're bringing our storytelling and production capability to help these people. Essentially TikTok, who's like, got your.
- [22:21]
Detavio Samuels
Got your eye.
- [22:22]
Toure
Yeah.
- [22:23]
Detavio Samuels
There's people, like, amazing black creators.
- [22:25]
Toure
Oh, there's. There's so many. One of the big ones that, like, we've been focused on. She's big. Tick tock and definitely Instagram. Linnae Venet. Do you know her?
- [22:32]
Detavio Samuels
No.
- [22:32]
Toure
She does, like, parking lot. She used to do this parking lot pimping.
- [22:35]
Detavio Samuels
Oh, yeah, Yeah. I had her on the show for sure.
- [22:36]
Toure
Oh, you had. Oh, yeah. So, like, love parking lot pimping, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Love the work that she's doing. So she's definitely on the radar right now. But we just see TikTok, Instagram, YouTube is, like, super fertile ground to kind of find the next talent that deserves to be stars.
- [22:52]
Detavio Samuels
So there was a period of time when you worked with Puff, of course. Right. And what was that like working with him?
- [22:59]
Toure
Sure. You know, in this moment, it's so difficult to try to figure out how to answer these questions, because I think we live in a world where people only want certain answers or they can only hold one truth. My personal truth is that I met Peff during the Love era, and so we had a great relationship. I would say, you know, if you were to talk to Sean while we were working together, he used to always say, Revolt is DeTavio's project. And so he wasn't in the business. He was pretty hands off. You know, we might talk once a quarter about the business, but he wasn't. He was never in the weeds. And so as he shifted out of the business, it was one of the biggest questions people used to ask, like, what are you going to do now that he's gone? And the answer was more of the same, because the mission is ours, the vision is ours, the team is ours. He was never really hands on, on the business. Right. So from my standpoint, what I would say is, great relationship. And he put me in position to be Where I am today.
- [23:57]
Detavio Samuels
What did he. Because. But he communicated to you what he thought Revolt was or what he wanted Revolt to be.
- [24:04]
Toure
For sure. Was that big for Puff was. We deserve a black free press. Right? We deserve a place for black people to be free and have the conversations that we want to have. We deserve a place where we can celebrate our heroes and our heroines. We deserve a place where we can have the tough conversations, where black people are not a monolithic group, but we are having a tough conversations, and we trust our audience to choose the size or choose the ideas that they want to buy into. I think that was his biggest piece, and I think the team grabbed that and built everything you see around it to now be what you see at Revolt.
- [24:42]
Detavio Samuels
So was there a moment where he's like, I'm not part of this anymore, or. It was a fading away.
- [24:50]
Toure
So when I came, Puff was always pretty hands off in the business.
- [24:54]
Detavio Samuels
Yeah.
- [24:54]
Toure
I think my first year, we probably communicated a little bit more as he was getting used to my style as an executive, as a professional. And then at that point in time, again, it was just intense trust. And the myself and the leadership team that was in place to carry the mission and do what we were doing, we were winning. Like, you know, look, 2020. I come 2021. Between 2021 and last year, advertising sales grow 5,6x. Right. The hold on the culture, you know, grows immensely. You had Revolt Summit, which used to do maybe 2,000, 3,000 people a day. Now we're doing 10,000, 15,000. So we were winning. Right. And so there was no reason to micromanage or get into the work because you had the team that was already doing a fantastic job.
- [25:37]
Detavio Samuels
I mean, it's a testament to you, because I don't know him to not micromanage or at least not be inserting his opinion. Maybe I'm more focused over here on other businesses, but, like, I have an opinion. I've been winning. I know, right? I mean, his taste was so much part of his superpower. So to be like, I need this, do this, do this, do this. He surely had to be.
- [26:02]
Toure
That was a blessing. Again, we had a great working relationship, and I think that we were dreaming big, right? Trying to build the black Disney. We were dreaming big, trying to put black creators on a global stage. And so I think he moves in magnitude, and I think we were moving in magnitude, and with that reality, he just kind of let us be.
- [26:22]
Detavio Samuels
So he sold his stake.
- [26:25]
Toure
Correct.
- [26:26]
Detavio Samuels
So there's no relationship.
- [26:29]
Toure
There's zero relationship. There's zero connection to the brand.
- [26:32]
Detavio Samuels
Officially.
- [26:33]
Toure
Officially.
- [26:34]
Detavio Samuels
But most people, if you ask them about Revolt, he. They would still say, oh, the thing.
- [26:38]
Toure
Puff Star, you can never take the fact that he was the founder away.
- [26:42]
Detavio Samuels
Right, right, right.
- [26:42]
Toure
I mean, that's just. That's part of history forever. Right.
- [26:44]
Detavio Samuels
So is there some work that you need to do as a brand to re educate or to get past, like, I know you feel like that about him. Yeah, that's not part of who we are anymore.
- [26:55]
Toure
I think we're past that work. I think, you know, we made the announcement more than a year ago that he stepped down as vice chairman. We made the announcement in June that he was 100% off the cap table. And so maybe in my 2023 and 2024, we were having to do that work, but today we're not having. The brand is so strong, Terry. The brand is so strong. Like one of the biggest blessings that we had as we navigated the last year is we didn't lose any employees, we didn't lose any clients or brand partners. We didn't lose any of our talent. Right. Everybody was there for Revolt. And so, no, I think, you know, for me, I'm hoping and praying and believing that that period of time that history is behind us.
- [27:34]
Detavio Samuels
So what is the biggest challenge for you?
- [27:38]
Toure
Yeah, I think this year is going to be a difficult year for all the black media as it's going to be for many black businesses in general. Right. I think the rollback against dei, the perception that anybody who is a person of color earned their rightful place, earned their place in whatever place they are because of their color, not because they perform. I think that narrative of what DEI has been so hijacked and weaponized in a negative way, and it's not our truth. Right. We didn't get into position because we were seen as a DEI hired by brands and advertisers. We got into this position because we have the most valuable audience that they need. We got into this position because we have a hold on the culture. We got into this position because we built the best mousetrap for brands and advertisers to connect to this hard to reach audience. Right. And so for us, we'll continue doing more of the same, but I think making sure that that's the story and not some other version of a story that people might try to put on us or the category, I think that's going to be. That's going to be one of the most difficult challenges. What I will say is, again, right now, when you look at my advertisers and brands, they know that we're performers. They know that we have a hold on the culture. And so there's been no flags. There's been no, you know, conversations around separation. Right. And so that I'm grateful for. This year, I'm hoping to be a year where we continue to grow. We've been growing 10, 15, 25% a year. In the beginning, we were growing 100% a year. And so still really believe that this is going to be a year of growth for us. But that's what I have my eye on.
- [29:20]
Detavio Samuels
It's a tough time for.
- [29:22]
Toure
It's tough. All media, media. And then, you know, they always say, like, if it's tough for. If it's tough for white America, right? They got the cold. Black America got the flu. So that's what. That's what I'm. That's what I'm paying attention to this year. Right? That's what I'm watching for.
- [29:38]
Detavio Samuels
Yeah. I mean, it's. It's. It's. It's tricky. It's really tricky. You see a lot of people getting cut, you know, for salaries, major companies being sold.
- [29:50]
Toure
Absolutely. It's a difficult 15 to 20,000 jobs, I think, lost over the last couple of years in media and entertainment. And then because the industry is in such chaos, you're absolutely going to see the power players consolidate and, right. People will look like companies will look very different in two or three years than they look today. And so it's definitely chaotic times. But the thing that I love about chaotic times, Turay, is that when everything is working, when everything is peace, when everything is stable, only the incumbents win. Only the big guys win. In times of chaos, anybody can win. And so I've got this resilient team. I've got this incredible brand. I have this super valuable audience. And so, you know, we're ready for the chaos.
- [30:35]
Detavio Samuels
I was at BET for a while, and, you know, we thought a lot about. I thought a lot about what is the version of blackness that we are putting out to people. And I'm like, I don't see myself reflected in the sort of blackness that we are communicating to people. So I know that a lot of people are like, do I see myself? No. I know millions of people are watching, so millions of people were seeing themselves, but a lot of people were not. What do you think about the sort of blackness that you are communicating through the shows and the things that you're putting together? Do you see as. Do you see yourself? Do you See as broad a vision of black America as you would like to, as you know, the world to be.
- [31:17]
Toure
Yeah. I think we look without question, our North Star is we want to reflect the full experience of black America. I think in one way that we do it is we are anchored in the entire lifestyle. Right. So you can see everything from news to sports to gaming, to faith to information and educate. Right. We're programming in all of those ways. I think what I would love to have is a much larger, more robust programming budget. So the again, I could bet on multiple creators, Right. I think, as you know, you brought up BET as an example. I think a lot of BET's positioning today has become the Tyler Perry Network, right. For us, we would love to see Revolt be like that creator network. All of the iconic black creators, what is their view on the black experience? Not my view, Right. Like Kenya Issa, Donald Glover, Kai Sanat Drewski. Right. We're trying to aggregate those people to tell the story through their lens as opposed to having one person sit in the seat and say, okay, this is what the black experience is. Right. And so I think because we're choosing different creators from different walks of life, we do a fantastic job of showcasing the black experience. And I think we could only do better if we had more money. And then for me, the real gap and the real miss of what I would love to do if we had more money is like the global stories. I just think hidden in our history, all across the world are blockbuster stories. And we don't get to tell those stories right now during programming.
- [32:43]
Detavio Samuels
But black stories from Africa, from any Haiti.
- [32:47]
Toure
Let's tell the story of Toussaint, right? Let's. Right. The only people to Haiti whoop Europeans and send them back to where they came. Let's tell the story of Mansa Musa, right? The richest man to ever live on the planet. And those stories are historical. But even let's tell the stories that come out of what are the most relevant culturally resonant stories coming out of Jamaica, Brazil, Ghana, Sierra Leone. Like, I want to get to a place where we can tell those stories. What the last few years has taught us about media is that we've experienced, like, a globalization of media, right? It used to be that international films were like this thing all the way off to the side. But as Netflix and Hulu and Amazon prime are taking stories and exporting them across the world, we're now so used to consuming content from everywhere, right? And so what happens when you can tell the full black global story and then how do you? And then based on being able to do that, how will you get to shift the narrative in terms of the way that not just people outside of us see us, but how we see ourselves?
- [33:46]
Detavio Samuels
So, so the tele. I understand the business structure. The television business is part of it, right? Is that the main part?
- [33:56]
Toure
Yeah. So from a business standpoint, we break it down into the affiliate linear side of the business. Right. So we have distribution deals with your Comcast, Xfin, Verizon, Philos. Right. Those people have been great partners to us over the years. So that's one revenue stream, the subscriptions. Right. Subscriber side of the business. And then the other side of the business is advertising. Right. Within that, there's absolutely a phenomenal linear cable business. But what we spend the last three to four years doing is building out our digital and social component of the business. Again, if you want to go after, you know, young gen Z or young gen Y, older gen Z, you got to be in digital, you got to be in social. So all of that falls underneath the advertising side of the business. And then this year we're hoping to start building a third revenue stream which is more on like the E commerce and the product side of the business.
- [34:44]
Detavio Samuels
So you're going to, what is that? Like a shop where you're helping?
- [34:48]
Toure
I think there's a ton of ways you can do it. And so we're going to run a bunch of experiments to see what works for us. But yes, it's everything from a shop to, you know, can you create products, find products and drive them through your content? Right. For me, I think of media this simply phase one, advertisers and brands come to media companies because they say, if we can pause your content that gets eyeballs for 30 seconds and run our content, we can drive sales. Phase two was them saying, okay, we don't just want to run commercials in these like advertising slots. We trust you to create content. So now we want you to make branded content. Content that tells our story for us, but in your voice. So now they're coming to you for the interrupt and for the content to sell their product. I think version three is media companies wake up and say, if all these brands and advertisers are coming to us to move product because our, our ad slots are that valuable, because the content we make is that valuable, then you automatically start thinking, okay, well what are the products we need to start moving through our own ecosystem.
- [35:54]
Detavio Samuels
So this is where you can start to have the agency within the company in that it would be better for you if you let us help you with branded content. Like here's the agency. That's what you mean.
- [36:06]
Toure
Absolutely. And so we've built that. We have a best in class branded content agency. We call them Six Zeros. Six Zeros is the hex code for black. Right. So it's everything anchored in a black lens, but again designed to reach and touch the world. And so award winning, run by a really incredible leader named Andre Woolery. They've been critical to the growth we've seen since 2020, basically since 2020. And I don't see that stopping anytime soon. I mean we have, you know, dedicated branded content, custom shows with everyone from Walmart to Amazon to State Farm. Right. So they're doing really phenomenal work on that. So I really do think it's industry leading.
- [36:48]
Detavio Samuels
So. Right, so that's four major revenue streams you said. Right?
- [36:54]
Toure
Yeah. So we would throw the parented content in the advertising. We would see there's a subcategory in it.
- [36:59]
Detavio Samuels
So three.
- [37:00]
Toure
Correct.
- [37:00]
Detavio Samuels
But you and you want to get to four.
- [37:03]
Toure
Oh, two. And we're trying to get to three, the affiliate linear advertising. And then this is the year we're really trying to crack the code on e commerce and product.
- [37:10]
Detavio Samuels
Wow. How many, how many people are able to turn on Revolt right now?
- [37:17]
Toure
Everybody. All over the world. Yeah. So like when you think about it as a cable channel only, which is maybe what we were as early as 2020, sure, we're in 55 million households across the nation, but a big piece of us building out our digital and social platforms were so that we could truly be a global media company. Right. And so we have a large digital audience on YouTube. You talked about how are you competing with YouTube? We're actually not. We're tapping into YouTube because it is the number one streaming platform in the world. Right. So between YouTube, between our social, between apps, mobile, CTV, we really are available everywhere. And that was a big piece of the work that we've been doing over the last few years.
- [38:07]
Detavio Samuels
Were you a leader as a child or as a teenager? Did that come naturally to you?
- [38:15]
Toure
Yeah, I think I've always. Yeah, from the beginning of time, I think I've always been positioned as a leader. And then I think very early on in my life I realized that you could be the best at a craft, but it didn't mean that you should lead. Meaning you might be a really great computer scientist, but it doesn't mean that you should lead. You might be a really good baker, but it doesn't mean that you should leave. But if I could learn how to lead, I could run any company, right? Take this leadership capability and put me over a company that's building ships. You know what I mean? Like, it's the same ideas, it's the same thinking. It's the. The same thought. And so I think very. All my career, all my life, I've been, you know, known or seen as a leader. But I also think very early on, I saw the value in developing leadership capability. And I've been focused on that since my early 20s.
- [39:07]
Detavio Samuels
Who was the basketball star when you were at Duke?
- [39:12]
Toure
Oh, sure, I came during, like, the. Corey Magetty was my year. So that was like, you know, Elton Brand. I'm looking badier. Shane Badier. Who?
- [39:25]
Detavio Samuels
Laitner?
- [39:25]
Toure
No, he. He was right in front of me. The young ones that you would know. So the year below me was like, Jason Williams, J.J. redick. Right. That con, that crew. That's when I was there.
- [39:35]
Detavio Samuels
Did you go to games?
- [39:36]
Toure
I did, but, you know, the Duke games are not easy to get in. Like, those kids camp out. So that's what I didn't do. So I went to every game you could get in without camping out, which typically meant that they were going to be, you know, landslides. Like, they were going to crush whatever the team is. So. So I've never been to a UNC Chapel Hill Duke game. Right. Because you have to camp out for that stuff for, like, 30 days, and it's cold in North Carolina, and I was never gonna do that.
- [40:00]
Detavio Samuels
Now you can go.
- [40:02]
Toure
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Now you could go for really easily.
- [40:07]
Detavio Samuels
There's definitely a chill throughout media around Trump and how he's attacking specific individuals. Companies have let people go because he preferred that, which is insane, or threatened to let people go. How does that cold wind affect your shop?
- [40:31]
Toure
Yeah, Today it's no effect. Today, revolt is known for being rebellious, disruptive, bold, courageous, which means that no matter who's in office, no matter who what's going on, like, we still show up in the same way. And so that's where our focus is. So for me, you know, we're not having a lot of conversations about how we need to shift or change because of who's in office. We're just having conversations around what is it that our audience needs, what is it that our brands and advertisers need and making sure that we can deliver for them.
- [41:08]
Detavio Samuels
Because it's quite frightening.
- [41:09]
Toure
No, no, no. The world is on fire, brother. No question. And I'll be the first one to tell you that I'll be the first one to tell you that I think the world is fire. But I think as a leader, it's imperative for us. You know, I was always taught that no matter how chaotic, no matter how unclear the future is, that as a leader, you don't get to say that, that it is your job to make things abundantly clear to the team, even while you're trying to figure it out, right? And so, sure, the world is changing, sure the world is shifting, and sure there are things that I'm trying to figure out as a leader, but the, the, the sound bite, the feeling, the emotion that I need inside of Revolt is that we are going to be okay. And we're going to be okay because we are going to keep doing the exact same things that God is here. We will expand territory, right? This year we're going to launch into new categories. We talked about sports, we got gaming coming, we've got food. We'll sign new creators again doing more of the same. But, but the, the feeling that I need in this company that is mostly people of color, right? Not only does our audience, not only is our audience majority minority, our company is majority minority. And so as a leader, I think I don't have a choice but to make them feel as stable and as calm as possible while we figure it all out.
- [42:28]
Detavio Samuels
Something really nice. When you are in an office and it's mostly black people.
- [42:34]
Toure
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it's, it's the, it's the, it's the blessing and a curse in this moment. And I'll tell you why it's a blessing, because there's community there, there's tribe, there's a group of people, black, brown, white. If you are one of our white brothers and sisters and you work at Revolt, you down for the mission, right? So all of us in the group, so you have those shared values and that shared tribe. And that's quite nice in moments like this. But then as a leader, what I'm up against is I know the trauma that comes with being in this moment. I know the pain that comes in this moment. And I have a whole company of people who feel that pain. I have a whole company who feel that trauma, right? If tomorrow something happens, God forbid, let's just use something in the past. George Floyd being murdered. I have to tell my team. I know that this was bad. I know that this is tough, but you gotta sit in it, you gotta cover it on social, you gotta cover it. So then I gotta tell them to push past their pain, push past their Trauma. Right. And I think those things are heavy. Again, the blessing for me is that the team is incredibly resilient and good, and so they show up every single day like all stars. But it's a blessing and a curse. We got the shared values in the tribe, but it's also, you know, you got to get to work and look at. Look at the pain, deal with the pain, wrestle with the pain. But you still gotta put work out because the community needs to hear what's going on.
- [43:55]
Detavio Samuels
You, you know, everybody who comes on the show, I talk to them about what it means to be black and where they put that into the work and curious about where that is for you. And you started to talk about black trauma and black pain is gotta be if you're doing black entertainment and living in the current world, like, that's part of the story, like, a lot. But, like, there's, you know, a lot of joy, 100%. What. What does it mean for you and how do you put that into the work?
- [44:28]
Toure
Yeah, I think it goes back to what we were talking about, which is it's about the totality of the experience, right? We can't ignore or walk away from the pain and the trauma. We also won't make that the entire story. There is a lot of joy. There is a lot of beauty. There is a lot of success. And so we want to showcase for our people, both sides, right? We're going to live in. We're going to live in the celebration and the joy, but we also going to communicate and find solutions for the places where there's pain and trauma. We got to do it all. That's the only choice. Can't live in. Just. That's what I hate about, like, a lot of mainstream media companies that take on black stories. They'll be anchored in one side, right? One archetype, one point of the experience. One, like, for us, it's about the totality of it all. All right? We want to see the whole being. We want to talk to the whole being. Okay, we get it. You wake up on Saturday, you want to study some business stuff, we got you. We got content for that. Then you go to the parties. We got music and music videos. Then you wake up in the morning, you want to watch church. We got td like, it's the totality of the experience for us.
- [45:29]
Detavio Samuels
It's beautiful.
- [45:30]
Toure
Thank you, brother.
- [45:31]
Detavio Samuels
Congratulations.
- [45:32]
Toure
Thank you so much, my man. Thank you for having me.
- [45:36]
Detavio Samuels
Thanks so much to Daytavio for a great interview and thanks to you for watching Torre show gives you fuel to power your dreams. Because you can use your dreams like a rocket ship to blast you into a life you never imagined. You can make your dreams a reality. Maybe this show can help. You can find me on TikTok at Torre show and on Instagram at Torre Show. Toray show is written by me, Torre, and produced by Ashley Hobbs. Our editor is Ryan Woodhull, our booker is Ray Holiday, and our distributor is DCP Entertainment. And we will be back next Wednesday with more amazing guests because the man can't shut us down.