The Big Reach

Summary

Podcast Summary: Trace of Suspicion – Episode 5, "The Big Reach"

Host: Josh Mankiewicz (Dateline/NBC News)
Date: March 24, 2026

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Main Theme & Episode Overview

This gripping episode of Trace of Suspicion dives deep into the aftermath of Marine Todd Sommer's mysterious death, the ensuing trial of his widow Cindy Sommer on charges of arsenic poisoning for financial gain, and the astonishing, dramatic turns in the case. Through interviews with jurors, attorneys, and Cindy herself, host Josh Mankiewicz guides listeners through the tense verdict, the fallout, the judicial twists, and ultimately, a revelatory discovery that changes everything.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Jury Deliberations and Verdict

• Atmosphere in the Jury Room ([00:49]–[02:52])

  • Jurors were intensely engaged, analyzING every witness and piece of testimony.
  • “We went through every single witness. I mean, we all had our notes. I mean, I had four notebooks.” — Juror Wendy Alton [02:32]
  • Central question: Did Todd Sommer die from arsenic poisoning? Jury unanimously agreed he did.

• Consideration of Evidence ([02:52]–[03:29])

  • Some expert testimony was liked, some dismissed.
  • Big issue was the lack of a definitive evidential link tying Cindy to arsenic.

• Cindy’s Behavior and Motive ([03:10]–[03:19])

  • Jurors scrutinized Cindy’s lifestyle changes post-Todd’s death, particularly finances and lavish spending.

• Verdict Announcement ([05:59]–[06:35])

  • The courtroom is described as tense and emotionally charged.
  • Judge reads: “We the jury find the defendant, Cynthia A. Sommer, guilty of the crime of murder of Todd Sommer... guilty of murder for financial gain. Guilty of murder by the administration of poison.” — Judge Peter Detta [06:19]

Reactions to the Verdict

• Cindy’s Immediate Response ([06:48]–[07:13])

  • Physically overwhelmed, describing tunnel vision, anxiety, and disbelief.
    • “When he read it, I just felt like I was going to pass out. A tunnel vision and I started sweating and anxiety attack.” — Cindy Sommer [06:48]

• Legal Teams’ Emotions

  • Prosecutor: Intense relief and satisfaction ([07:21]–[07:54])
    • “We were very relieved that the jury had done the right thing...” — Laura Gunn [07:21]
  • Defense: Shock and self-assessment. Bob Udell feels there was little else he could have done ([07:09])

Public and Jury Backlash

• Media and Social Media Impact ([10:26]–[11:12])

  • Jurors, especially Wendy Alton, faced public criticism, online backlash, and personal distress.
    • “It really makes me kind of sad the way that the jury’s been treated. So it’s kind of like I feel like we've been convicted and all we did was our best.” — Wendy Alton [11:02]
  • Some members of the public felt sympathy for Cindy.

• Judicial Reaction

  • Judge received numerous letters and emails urging various outcomes. ([11:54]–[12:14])

Cindy’s Fight for a New Trial

• Change in Defense Counsel ([12:14]–[13:12])

  • Six weeks post-conviction, Cindy fires Bob Udell and hires Alan Bloom, who questions whether the trial focused on facts or circumstantial conjecture.
    • “This case should be about evidence, and before you're going to send somebody to prison for the rest of their lives, you should have facts to support it.” — Alan Bloom [13:15]

• Alleged Legal and Jury Misconduct

  • Alan Bloom identifies holes in the prosecution’s case, notably the arsenic tests and evidence chain of custody ([13:36]–[13:55]).
  • Attorney Udell admits he operated from conviction in Cindy's innocence rather than strict legal analysis ([17:55]).

• Building a Case for Appeal

  • Bloom and Udell agree on a strategy focusing on ineffective assistance of counsel ([18:59]–[19:42]).
    • “Her first attorney was so convinced of her innocence ... he failed to do some of the things that should have been done.” — Alan Bloom [19:21]
    • Udell is willing to admit mistakes in court, risking his own reputation to help Cindy ([19:42])

Allegations of Jury Misconduct

• Potential Improper Deliberations and Outside Knowledge ([20:36]–[22:28])

  • Claims made that some jurors discussed the case before official deliberation and that a retired police officer on the jury considered information not introduced at trial (Cindy's extradition delays).
    • “If you were really innocent, then why wouldn't you have... come back to San Diego right away to fight the case?” — Reported statement, Alan Bloom [21:12]
  • Jurors interviewed deny any impropriety ([22:50]–[23:18]).

• Caught Between Accusations and Defense

  • Feelings of hurt and sadness among jurors about being accused of misconduct ([23:34]).

Courtroom Dramatics: The Motions for New Trial

• First Motion: Jury Misconduct Denied

  • Judge finds no evidence of jury wrongdoing, denying Bloom’s motion ([24:51]–[25:08]).

• Second Motion: Ineffective Counsel Succeeds Against All Odds

  • In a rare decision ([27:03]),
    • “If Cindy were guilty, it might be a different story. But she's not. She didn't kill Todd.” — Bob Udell [27:03]
  • Judge vacates Cindy's conviction and orders a new trial ([28:14]–[29:46])
  • The courtroom is shocked, prosecution stunned, defense elated.
    • “Their mouths were hanging open in literal astonishment, like someone who had won the lottery. Or... lost the ticket in a windstorm.” — Josh Mankiewitz [29:51]

Reflections from Key Players

• Udell’s Redemption

  • Confessional about his trial mistakes, feeling personally responsible, but also relieved by the new trial decision ([30:43]–[31:31]).
    • “Judge Stead, his decision may have restored my faith in the criminal justice system, and maybe I will continue practicing.” — Bob Udell [30:51]

• Alan Bloom’s Surprise and Satisfaction

  • Acknowledges the unique nature of the ruling ([30:30]–[30:43]).
    • “This just doesn’t happen... Not usually.” — Alan Bloom [30:32]

The Revelatory Twist

• Discovery of New Evidence ([32:06])
  • On the brink of the re-trial, both sides discover something astonishing about the original arsenic testing, setting the stage for a stunning new development.
    • “I knew all along that the testing was wrong, and I was just waiting for that to come out.” — Cindy Sommer [32:19]
    • “...when you're holding somebody's life in your hand, it's not about stealing a cookie.” — Alan Bloom [32:23]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Coping After Todd’s Death:
  “Until you’re in someone’s shoes, you don’t know how you would respond. I started drinking, and that was my priority...I didn't want to be in the house...and I didn't want to be sober. I don't want to be sober right now.” — Cindy Sommer [10:06]

• On Legal Regret and Professional Reflection:
  “They thought I was an animated jerk...Jury hated me. They didn’t want to hear a word that I had to say and blew us off.” — Bob Udell [17:21]

• On the Jury’s Responsibility:
  “It really makes me kind of sad the way that the jury’s been treated. So it’s kind of like I feel like we've been convicted and all we did was our best.” — Juror Wendy Alton [11:02]

• On the Importance of Evidence:
  "This case should be about evidence, and before you’re going to send somebody to prison for the rest of their lives, you should have facts to support it.” — Alan Bloom [13:15]

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Important Timestamps

• 00:49 – Introduction to the jury’s dynamic, deliberations begin
• 02:32 – Jurors discuss arsenic question, evidence review
• 06:19 – Jury delivers guilty verdict
• 09:11 – Cindy’s first prison interview after conviction
• 13:08 – Alan Bloom enters the case
• 17:21 – Bob Udell reflects on jury’s perception of him
• 19:21 – Ineffective counsel as the grounds for appeal
• 24:07 – Testimony regarding jury conduct and extradition
• 25:08 – Judge denies motion for a new trial on misconduct
• 27:03 – Bob Udell admits to errors in open court
• 29:46 – Judge vacates conviction, orders new trial (shocking twist)
• 32:06 – Discovery of new evidence on the horizon

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Tone & Narrative Flow

As told through the voices of those closest to the story—jurors, attorneys, Cindy herself, and Dateline’s Josh Mankiewicz—the episode masterfully blends tension, personal introspection, and courtroom drama, maintaining a somber, contemplative tone. The intimate reflections and emotional toll on all parties are front and center, bringing depth to complex questions of justice, doubt, and redemption.

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End Note:
Episode 5, “The Big Reach,” leaves listeners on the brink of another revelation, promising answers in the next chapter of Cindy Sommer’s remarkable legal saga.

Transcript

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[Cindy Summer]

Exactly.

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[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

They saw one another almost every day, made eye contact and nodded in the morning, smiling, said goodbye with a smile. At the end of the day, they were more than strangers, but less than friends. That's because for nearly a month, they were jurors in a murder case, and each held a ringside seat to the biggest show in town, the one thing everyone seemed to be talking about. I think the prosecutors did a wonderful job.

[Juror Wendy Alton]

I think the defense attorney was a little pompous, quite frankly.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

Everyone, that is, except them.

[Alternate Juror]

It's like the second I told them I was on jury duty, I was gonna be out of work for a while. They said, is it this case? It's like, no. People learned not to talk to me, and I didn't talk to them about it.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

Now the lawyers on both sides had made their final pitches, and the case was theirs. The judge had given his instructions.

[Juror Wendy Alton]

We were just ready. I mean, the minute we got in that room, we went, oh, good, now we can talk to each other. It was an amazing jury, a group of wonderful people, smart, intelligent, that worked very hard to do their very best.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

There was a brief moment of spontaneous chatter before jurors got down to the business of picking a foreperson. Then, instead of taking on the question of guilt or innocence, they discussed the issue that seemed central to this case. Did Todd Summer die from arsenic poisoning?

[Juror Wendy Alton]

We needed to make sure that we all agreed on that or not, because if he didn't, then there's no case on that.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

They were unanimous.

[Juror Wendy Alton]

We went through every single witness. I mean, we all had our notes. I mean, I had four notebooks.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

Some of the expert witnesses they liked.

[Alternate Juror]

I do think he was a knowledgeable guy.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

Some they did not like.

[Juror Wendy Alton]

I kind of took what he said with a grain of salt.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

And some of the testimony they simply

[Juror Wendy Alton]

Dismissed because we didn't have enough. There wasn't enough.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

There, on a wall covered in butcher's paper. They listed lies and inconsistencies. They discussed the defendant, Cindy Summer, her behavior, her sex life and her finances, both before her husband died and after.

[Juror Wendy Alton]

The trust fund running out was a big issue. Not necessarily just for breast implants, but for her. I mean, she liked to spend money. It was obvious.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

And they talked at length about the one piece of evidence they did not have.

[Alternate Juror]

They didn't really come up with a real solid link to her with the arsenic.

[Juror Wendy Alton]

No, but you can write arsenic anywhere.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

It went on like that for two days. And then on the third day, they voted.

[Juror Wendy Alton]

It was a blind vote.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

So a secret ballot.

[Juror Wendy Alton]

Yes. Yes.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

In this episode, you'll hear what that verdict was.

[Prosecutor Laura Gunn]

The jury came in and you couldn't tell one way or another.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

You will hear the reactions of those who spent years working on this case.

[Defense Attorney Bob Udell]

It proved to me one thing. You may not win a case in jury selection, but you can certainly lose in jury selection.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

And you will hear how this story took a shocking turn, one that proves an old adage, one that's known to crime writers everywhere. And it is this. There is only one plot. Things are not what they appear to be.

[Cindy Summer]

I think people are always going to believe what they're going to believe, regardless of whatever anyone says to them. There are always people that are going to believe that the moon's made of cheese.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

I'm Josh Mankiewitz, and this is Trace of Suspicion, a podcast from Dayline. Episode five, the Big Reach. Please remain seated and starts now in session. This was the moment they had all waited for. The defendant, the attorneys, the press, and those fixated by this scene. It was a moment of high drama.

[Prosecutor Laura Gunn]

I'm surprised that more lawyers don't have heart attacks while they're waiting for juror brain.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

That is prosecutor Laura Gunn, who spoke with me shortly after the trial ended.

[Prosecutor Laura Gunn]

There was such intense scrutiny of this. My whole family was following it. I had been working on it for two years. The trial took a full month. It mattered a great deal.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

Judge Peter Detta took his seat. And then for two excruciating minutes, nothing happened.

[Judge Peter Detta]

We're bringing in the jury right now, so that's why there's a little bit of a delay.

[Prosecutor Laura Gunn]

I was very nervous.

[Defense Attorney Bob Udell]

Jury's donating.

[Prosecutor Laura Gunn]

Help.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

Everyone rose. Cindy Summer, her hair pulled back in a ponytail and wearing a dark pinstripe suit, watched the jury file in. Her face showed no emotion. Judge Deda smiled.

[Judge Peter Detta]

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Of the jury.

[Juror Wendy Alton]

Good morning.

[Judge Peter Detta]

It's my understanding that you have reached a verdict. Jury number four, could you please hand that forward to my bailiff?

[Prosecutor Laura Gunn]

You know, you can try to read juries coming in, but I've had such bad experiences both ways with trying to guess that I don't even try to guess anymore.

[Judge Peter Detta]

Verdict. We the jury find the defendant, Cynthia A. Summer, guilty of the crime of murder of Todd Sommer.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

Cindy stared vacantly as Judge Detta continued to read from the verdict form.

[Judge Peter Detta]

And we further find that guilty of

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

murder for financial gain. Guilty of murder by the administration of poison. This is what Cindy said the next day to a reporter from NBC affiliate knsd.

[Cindy Summer]

When he read it, I. I just felt like I was going to pass out a tunnel vision and I started sweating and anxiety attack.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

When her lawyer, Bob Udell, heard the verdict, he slumped back in his chair as if stunned. Later, he told reporters, there's nothing we

[Defense Attorney Bob Udell]

did that I wish we hadn't done. And there's nothing we didn't do that I wish we had.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

A few feet away at the prosecution table, there was a palpable sense of relief.

[Prosecutor Laura Gunn]

We were very relieved that the jury had done the right thing and seen the case as we saw it.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

Cindy was frog marched out of the courtroom in handcuffs. Prosecutor Laura Gunn met briefly with jurors and then with reporters who had gathered for a press conference reaction.

[Defense Attorney Bob Udell]

Huh.

[Prosecutor Laura Gunn]

Well, well, I'm so glad that Todd Summer's family has justice finally for the death of their son.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

Gunn told the reporters that even though the case against Cindy Summer was entirely circumstantial, she and others in the San Diego District Attorney's office had felt it was their duty to take it to trial.

[Prosecutor Laura Gunn]

This is a case that absolutely needed to be, you know, tried. We knew that we would be entering into a hard fought battle, but in the end, you know, we had strong evidence and we were happy with the result.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

Do you have any indication about which

[Juror Wendy Alton]

argument resonated most with the jury?

[Prosecutor Laura Gunn]

They didn't spend a lot of time worrying about whether the arsenic was there or not there. They seemed to accept fairly early on that it was there. And once you accept that, all the rest of it just falls into place because really there is nobody else.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

Laura Gunn may well have walked away from the courthouse that day thinking case closed. While Cindy Summer was not about to go away quietly, her name was still at the top of every newscast and would be for at least the next 48 hours. So she let it be known she was willing to talk, to tell her side of this story to any reporter who wanted to bring their cameras to the San Diego county lockup, I really

[Cindy Summer]

want to let everyone know that this really can happen to them. Innocent people go to prison for life, and that's a scary thing.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

There were conditions, of course, those were fixed not by Cindy, but by her jailers. All conversations would have to be done through a Plexiglas window via a phone hookup, and the jailhouse staff would be listening in. Cindy was fine with all of that.

[Cindy Summer]

I didn't think that they would ever come back with a guilty verdict. I don't know how they did. I think that they just took NCIS's word and said, you know, well, they've investigated for this long, and they must be right.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

As for the salacious slurry chock full of her personal behavior after her husband's death, Cindy told reporters that had been her way of coping, a manifestation of her desire to avoid dealing with some monolithic grief.

[Cindy Summer]

Until you're in someone's shoes, you don't know how you would respond. I started drinking, and that was my priority. I didn't want to be in the house. My husband died there, and I wanted to be as far away as possible, and I didn't want to be sober. I don't want to be sober right now.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

Coverage of first the trial and then Cindy's jailhouse charm offensive did have an impact on public opinion. Jurors said shortly after they delivered their verdict, some began hearing critical sniping from friends and neighbors. The comments on social media were brutal.

[Juror Wendy Alton]

This has really been a horrible experience, and I hate to say that because I was very excited to do it. I thought, you know, this is my civic duty.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

That is Wendy Alton, one of the jurors I spoke with after the trial.

[Juror Wendy Alton]

It really makes me kind of sad the way that the jury's been treated. So it's kind of like I feel like we've been convicted and all we did was our best.

[Alternate Juror]

You know, you're talking about the public

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

reaction after the verdict.

[Juror Wendy Alton]

Yes, and it was so surprising to all of us. I mean, I was completely shocked when they couldn't believe our verdict. And, I mean, I was like, what?

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

Prosecutor Laura Gunn was hearing some of that same criticism. Here she is speaking at a press conference weeks after the trial ended.

[Prosecutor Laura Gunn]

This is a case that has generated a lot of attention. I think some people regard the defendant as somebody who's sympathetic. She's a mother, she's a female. And it's not uncommon in a case like this to have people who disagree with the verdict, whatever it happens to be.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

Even judge deda heard from people who had watched the trial on t TV and wanted to weigh in.

[Judge Peter Detta]

Since without verdict in this case, I've received probably 50 letters and emails.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

That's judge deda.

[Judge Peter Detta]

These are essentially letters and emails encouraging me to do one thing or the other with regard to the verdict. Either hold the verdict or reverse the verdict.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

It was during those days of public pushback that Cindy summer decided to fire her lawyer, Bob udell. After all, it had been his blunder that opened the door and allowed the prosecutor to use Cindy's private life as almost corporal punishment in front of the jury. Looking back, Cindy told me she knew Bob udell was not the guy she wanted Working to overturn her newly minted conviction.

[Cindy Summer]

I just thought, I'm gonna fight for 20 years before I can even see daylight again. I'm gonna just die fighting, trying to get out of here, knowing that I didn't do anything.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

So six weeks after her conviction, Cindy's family hired a prominent San Diego criminal attorney named Alan bloom.

[Defense Attorney Alan Bloom]

I think this case should have been about facts. That's what a trial is supposed to be.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

That is the voice of Alan bloom.

[Defense Attorney Alan Bloom]

This case should be about evidence, and before you're going to send somebody to prison for the rest of their lives, you should have facts to support it.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

Bloom told Cindy she had a strong case and should have been acquitted. If he'd handled the case from the beginning, he said, she would have been acquitted. What did Mr. Udell not do that he should have done?

[Defense Attorney Alan Bloom]

He didn't find out about the tremendous holes that existed in the prosecution's case as it related to the evidence here, which has to do with the arsenic testing. They came up with results to show arsenic in amounts that has never, ever been able to be found in the history of arsenical testing before.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

What Cindy needed, said bloom, was a new trial, a do over in golf, a mulligan. And bloom knew getting a court to throw out a conviction is a lot harder than finding a lost ball in some high weeds. However, it is not impossible. Bloom had an idea that might work, but it would require the man he just replaced to make an enormous sacrifice.

[Defense Attorney Bob Udell]

Whatever happens with my reputation will happen.

[Cindy Summer]

Foreign.

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[Willie Geist]

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[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

When Bob Udell flew home after the Cindy Summer trial, he might have thought he'd be able to relax, maybe take a long walk on the beach and let the South Florida sunshine sunshine wash over him. He did not. Udell had a hangover that would not quit. A trial hangover, that is. He simply could not stop thinking about the Summer case, thinking about the things he did and did not do. Most of all, he could not stop thinking about his now former client, Cindy Summer. She was very likely to spend the rest of her life in prison. To Yidel, the guilt was not hers. It was his.

[Defense Attorney Bob Udell]

I've had a hole in my heart. I haven't been paying attention to my wife, my children, my clients, my practice.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

I sat down with Bob Udell a few months after the trial ended. You told me you had trouble sleeping.

[Defense Attorney Bob Udell]

I've had trouble sleeping. Ready today to give up the practice of law and go sell donuts?

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

He acknowledged he had made plenty of mistakes in the trial, and Bob told me he'd felt like a fish out of water in California. He wasn't familiar with the evidence code. He mispronounced the name of a town, and he thought the jurors didn't like him. According to online comments made by some of the jurors, he was right about that.

[Defense Attorney Bob Udell]

They thought I was an animated jerk. They commented upon my glasses and my faces that I make. Jury hated me. They didn't want to hear a word that I had to say and blew us off.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

Slumped in the courtroom, Udell had been bewildered at the trial's outcome. There had been not one scrap of evidence present that linked Cindy to arsenic. And yet.

[Defense Attorney Bob Udell]

And yet the errors I made were because I was so sure she was not guilty and was so convinced the jury would see it, that there were things that should have been done that I didn't do. I tried this case with my heart instead of my head.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

So that was where Bob Udell's head was when one day his phone rang. On the other end of the line was Cindy's new lawyer, Alan Bloom. He Wanted Udell's help in getting Cindy a new trial. He had questions. Why didn't you push back harder on the arsenic evidence, Ask for DNA testing to verify that the tissues tested were actually Todd summers? And why didn't you point out holes in the chain of custody where the tissues might have become lost or contaminated?

[Defense Attorney Alan Bloom]

Alan Bloom, if Bob udell had gone to the point, you would have found out that these huge holes in the testing process Left at situations where you don't even know where the tissues have been.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

Bob udell had no good answers. And over time, the two lawyers recognized the obvious. The best way to get Cindy a new trial Was to argue in their motion that she had received a subpar defense. Ineffective assistance of counsel is the legal jargon for that.

[Defense Attorney Alan Bloom]

Her first attorney was so convinced of her innocence, it was almost as if he felt that he was so sure that she wouldn't be convicted that he failed to do some of the things that should have been done.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

Bob udell did not have to think twice. Yes, he said, count me in.

[Defense Attorney Bob Udell]

Whatever happens with my reputation will happen.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

How difficult was it for you to essentially argue, I didn't do a good job, I should have done more?

[Defense Attorney Bob Udell]

Well, it's always easy to tell the truth. I made some errors.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

The new strategy was, and it's hard to overstate this, A very big reach, Quote, her attorney did a bad job Is almost never a strong enough argument to win in an appellate court. That was only one approach Alan bloom was prepared to take. Shortly after the trial ended, some of the jurors and alternates turned on each other, Leveling accusations of improper behavior Both inside and outside of the jury room.

[Defense Attorney Alan Bloom]

I know that one alternate juror who was on the case the whole time did not deliberate, has come forward to say that she heard two of the jurors discussing some parts about the case when they shouldn't have been.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

If true, that made bloom's case a little stronger, because jurors are specifically told by judges not to discuss cases until it's time to deliberate. And that was not the only disturbing allegation of misconduct by a juror.

[Defense Attorney Alan Bloom]

And then there was one juror who was a retired police officer who never revealed to anybody that he had learned that Cindy had fought extradition in Florida. And his comment to this alternate juror right after the case was over, they're literally walking away from the courtroom. So it's not as if he could have gotten this information after his job was over. He said, and if. Did you know that she fought extradition and that Delayed it four months. And if you were really innocent, then why wouldn't you have come back to come back to San Diego right away to fight the case?

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

And that was not ever introduced at trial?

[Defense Attorney Alan Bloom]

That's correct. It was not introduced at trial and for a reason. The reason is that when she was in Florida, the lawyer there. The lawyer looked at this case in Florida and said, this case is so empty, is so full of holes, I think that we can actually attempt to convince the San Diego people not to prosecute you at all.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

So that's what she was doing, not fighting extradition. Let's assume that what the alternate juror says is absolutely true. What's the significance?

[Defense Attorney Alan Bloom]

Well, the significance is that the jurors didn't do what they should have done. If that's true, then the jurors deliberated and talked about the evidence when they shouldn't have. And in one case, at least one case, one juror, he considered evidence that he shouldn't have.

[Alternate Juror]

Is that enough to get a new trial?

[Cindy Summer]

Maybe.

[Defense Attorney Alan Bloom]

Maybe.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

The jurors I talked with back then said they saw nothing improper taking place in the jury room. One of the other alternates said that one of the jurors was arguing points of the case before the case was

[Juror Wendy Alton]

over, that the case got talked about before. Didn't happen.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

That's the voice of juror Linda Godoy.

[Juror Wendy Alton]

Didn't happen. We talked about everything, but. Oh, gosh, everything. Our children, the weather, trips, clothes, shoes, shopping.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

Did the retired police officer ever talk to you guys about the case before deliberations began?

[Juror Wendy Alton]

No. No.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

Didn't say that Cindy had had to be extradited from Florida?

[Juror Wendy Alton]

No.

[Cindy Summer]

No.

[Juror Wendy Alton]

The first time I heard about that was an email he sent. Long after the two or three weeks after the trial, he sent an email, and that's when he brought it up. My thing about, you know, the accusations, I mean, I found them extremely hurtful because I didn't talk to anybody.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

Hurtful or not, if there was even a teaspoon of truth in those allegations, Alan Bloom thought he might have a shot at getting Cindy a new trial. Finally, in mid November 2007, Alan Bloom and Cindy were side by side back in Judge Deda's court, this time for a dismissal motion based on jury misconduct.

[Prosecutor Laura Gunn]

During the trail itself, did you at any time read or watch any news stories about the summer case or look the case up on the Internet?

[Alternate Juror]

I did not.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

That is prosecutor Laura Gunn questioning the retired police officer who had served as juror number 10.

[Prosecutor Laura Gunn]

Did you ever discuss the case with your Fellow jurors during breaks or out in the hallways?

[Alternate Juror]

No, ma'.

[Juror Wendy Alton]

Am.

[Prosecutor Laura Gunn]

Did you ever say anything about the defendant fighting for extradition?

[Alternate Juror]

No, I did not.

[Prosecutor Laura Gunn]

How certain are you about that?

[Alternate Juror]

100% certain.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

The juror told the court he did not learn of Cindy's extradition fight until weeks after the trial was over. It was only then he said that he mentioned it in an email to the other jurors. Here he is reading that email in the court hearing.

[Alternate Juror]

If anyone went back and read any of the news accounts of this incident, you would have discovered that Cindy fought extradition to California from Florida. This added about another four months in custody. If she really wanted to tell the world she didn't do this, she would have waived extradition and caught the next flight to San Diego.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

After that, Judge Detta made his ruling. He denied Allen Bloom's motion for a new trial on the grounds of juror misconduct. It was one more courtroom defeat for Cindy Summer, who went straight back to the lockup. All Bloom had left now was a hearing on his motion for a new trial on the grounds that Bob Udell had been an ineffective advocate for Cindy. The big reach maybe the biggest. With her formal sentencing now less than two weeks away, time was running out.

[Defense Attorney Alan Bloom]

Foreign.

[Willie Geist]

Hey, guys, Willie Geist here. We're celebrating 10 years of Sunday today by hosting a very special Sunday sit down live event. And our guest is one of the biggest stars on the planet, Ryan Reynolds. We're taking our conversation to the stage in front of an audience of you for one night only at City Winery in New York on April 7th. An intimate in person evening I promise you won't want to miss. Tickets are limited, so grab yours [e-mail].

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

When Bob Udell returned to San Diego in late November 2007 for Cindy's formal sentencing, he was by his own admission, a broken man. Man his former client was looking at a life sentence. Bob was there to try to stop the sentencing by appearing in support of a last ditch motion to get Cindy a new trial. His job? Tell Judge Deda he had been an incompetent lawyer.

[Defense Attorney Bob Udell]

If Cindy were guilty, it might be a different story. But she's not. She didn't kill Todd.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

Is it humiliating to stand in a courtroom and say I screwed up?

[Defense Attorney Bob Udell]

It's not humiliating. I've tried over a hundred cases, so I screwed up one of them. Unfortunately, I screwed up one where the client was innocent.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

When the time came, Bob Udell took the stand and and swallowed a generous portion of humble pie without any sugar coating. He confessed his errors and said Cindy had deserved a better defense than the one he provided. I was in the courtroom that day not because I thought Cindy and Alan Bloom would win that motion. I knew they had pretty much zero chance of that. I was there because many, if not all, the participants in this case would be in the same room at the same time. And many had not yet agreed to appear on Dateline with me. I was there to persuade them to change that. I wore a nice suit and tie. I remember I was trying to look presentable. I sat three or four rows back in the gallery, waiting for this to be over so I could start introducing myself to the people we were trying to book for Dateline. Then the judge started speaking, and I was waiting to hear him say the motion for a new trial was denied. I listened, and I thought to myself, wow, if I didn't know better, I would think he just threw out Cindy's conviction and ordered a new trial. Of course, I knew I had to be wrong. Then I glanced over at the prosecution table. Their mouths were hanging open in literal astonishment, like someone who had won the lottery. Or in this case, like someone who had won it and then lost the ticket in a windstorm. And then, just like that, the judge banged his gavel, and Cindy Summers murder conviction was vacated. A new trial ordered. Alan Bloom was smiling. Cindy looked stunned, at least for the instant I saw her face, she was returned to custody pending trial number two. That moment is crystal clear in my mind. I had never seen anything like it before or since. Twenty years later, it's Cindy's memory that's a little foggy.

[Cindy Summer]

I don't remember. I don't remember anything else about those things.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

I look over at you, and you have your eyebrows up, and I look over at the prosecution, and they must

[Cindy Summer]

have just a look of dread.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

They looked like they'd been tased. They were like. They looked stunned.

[Cindy Summer]

Yeah.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

And then the hearing ended, and they were furious.

[Cindy Summer]

A white bet.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

On the other hand, Bob Udell and Alan Bloom were grinning from ear to ear.

[Defense Attorney Alan Bloom]

We're finally outside of a hole, and I'm breathing fresh air. The fact that she has a second chance is something which is very good.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

This just doesn't happen.

[Defense Attorney Alan Bloom]

Not usually. Not usually.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

How'd you do it?

[Defense Attorney Alan Bloom]

Well, this is a very unique case. As the judge said, the evidence in this case that the prosecution has is very thin, razor thin.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

For Bob Udell, that ruling of a new trial for Cindy felt as if a huge weight had been lifted.

[Defense Attorney Bob Udell]

Judge Stead, his decision may have restored my faith in the criminal justice system, and maybe I will continue practicing.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

And your faith in yourself? Maybe.

[Defense Attorney Bob Udell]

I've never doubted that I'm a good lawyer in the sense that I care, and that's 95% of being a lawyer. I'm certainly not the most eloquent lawyer, and I have mannerisms that some jurors just don't like. But no, I haven't lost any faith in my ability. I tried my hardest. I just got too close to the case.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

But now she's got another chance.

[Defense Attorney Bob Udell]

Absolutely not. The only thing that mattered.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

Over the next few months, attorneys for Cindy Summer and the San Diego district attorney's office dug into those old files, preparing for round two. It was then that an astonishing discovery was made, one that would ultimately turn this rematch into no match at all.

[Defense Attorney Alan Bloom]

Next time, I happen to be standing on the number 17 hole at Balboa Golf Course and I get a call from the court clerk saying that the judge is going to conduct a hearing in 30 minutes. Do I want to be present?

[Cindy Summer]

I knew all along that that the testing was wrong, and I was just waiting for that to come out.

[Defense Attorney Alan Bloom]

And it reminded me of Bart Simpson, who gets his hand stuck in the cookie jar. I didn't do it. Nobody saw me do it. Can't prove a thing. It's funny when Bart Simpson does it, but when you're holding somebody's life in your hand, it's not about stealing a cookie.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewitz)]

This podcast is a production of Dateline and NBC News. Tim Beacham is the producer. Marshall Housefeld, Brian Drew and Meredith Kramer are audio editors. Molly DeRosa is associate producer. Rachel Young is field producer. Adam Gorfin is co executive producer, Paul Ryan is executive producer, and Liz Cole is senior executive producer from NBC News. Audio Sound mixing by Rich Cutler.

[Podcast Advertiser]

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