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Trading Secrets
212. Joan Vassos & Chock Chapple: Newly engaged Golden Bachelorette couple dive into BTS of reality TV, thoughts on retirement, and what the future holds
00:47:15
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- [00:00]
Unknown Speaker
Foreign.
- [00:13]
Jason Tardick
Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. I'm Jason Tardick and welcome to the pre market trading segment where I'm tell you a little bit about our guests. Something you need to know, what's happening out there in the market and an update from my personal life. This episode is awesome, especially if you are a Bachelor fan. We have Joan and Chalk from the Golden Bachelorette. They are now engaged. Are they going to go? Have they talked money? You know, all this stuff that you haven't heard in a very quick interview. 20 minute rapid fire. And then after that I have the one, the only Susanna Summers coming on. She is the guru of numbers, all things pop culture and specifically Bachelor 2 on Instagram. She goes by Bachelor data and pop culture data. We are going to talk all about the ratings of the Golden Bachelor versus the golden Bachelorette. What happened on Dancing with the Stars, where does she see the Bachelor franchise going? And just overall, really interesting information as it relates to ratings numbers. All different shows, what marketers are looking for. I'm telling you, it was a masterclass from Susannah Summers. So make sure that you stay tuned to the recap. Now some stuff that you should know out there. Cyber Monday. Holy smokes. It was the biggest online shopping day ever. $15.8 million were spent every 60 seconds. 13.3 billion in total, up 7.3% from last year. Now we did Spotify wraps. We got some cool numbers here. My listeners are from 114 countries. Top countries, United States. The number one rated episode, the most commented episode out there, episode 200. Mama Kuch in the house. Dale Tardick dives into family and career history. All right. We also talk about the listener age brackets. We have 3% in that 18 to 24 demo. We have 24%, 25, 29, 39%, 30 to 34, 26% in 35 to 44, 5% and 45 to 54 and 3% on 55 plus. We gained 28% listeners, 24% streams and 47% followers this year. Big year for Trading Secrets. 61% new listeners this year. So thank you everyone. Please go give us five stars. Subscribe to the podcast. Make sure that you are following us on YouTube, on Instagram and Jason Tardick on TikTok and Instagram as well. And thank you so much. Personal update. I've been in Art Basel all week. Art Basel is like the super bowl of art. And so it's been fascinating to work with all different brands like, you know, American Express and Capital One and Patron. And we played At DJ Khaled's tournament, golf tournament, which was just fascinating. And so at these big events, there are big brands, and then the big brands are who we work with on the agency side. So that's kind of the business model behind it. Next week, I'll be in Cincinnati for some work stuff. I'm doing some speaking work. I'm really excited about that suit and tie. Jason back on. And then I will be in Florida the following week, and then I'm done. I'm done. Charlotte for Christmas, packing it in. And you know what? 2024. See you later. See you never. Some years you win. Some years you build character. Said by Steve Jobs. I'll leave it at that. Let's ring in the bell with the one, the only, actually, both of them, Joan and Chalk. Joan and Chalk.
- [03:30]
Joan
Congratulations on your engagement. What an unbelievable finale it was. When I'm looking at the numbers, though, I got to ask you guys. We saw 2.8 million viewers of the premiere, 3 point million viewers and the finale. When you hear about these numbers and you think about your journey on reality tv, what was the most unexpected thing that came your way over this period of time?
- [03:53]
Chalk
But I'd be the last man standing. I had no idea what I was getting into. I was ready to find love. But, you know, the story is, my daughter signed me up for this. I had no idea. Hadn't watched an episode before. And so I came in completely unknowing of the whole process. I think it. It was good for me to do it that way, but there were some things that I wish I would have known. But the great thing, Keith, one of my fellow bachelor guys, he'd watched every episode of every series. He knew everything. And so it was a great resource for me, but it was a heck of a ride.
- [04:26]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah. And for me, I came out, like, actually engaged. You know, I went in thinking that, like, my ultimate goal was to find somebody that I wanted to explore a relationship with outside, you know, kind of bachelor. And wasn't sure that you could, you know, go through the journey that quickly and end up really being in love and ready to be engaged. And I actually was at the end.
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Joan
I love that as you go through this process, because we think about people that listen to the show. There's a lot of singles out there, and one thing they ask a lot about is what are some of the tough questions that you should ask or amongst your journey in dating, what are the things you should do to make sure that you're finding the right person? Joan, given the experience that you just had. What advice would you have for those listeners?
- [05:07]
Unknown Speaker
I would say that everybody enters a relationship, like in search of they need something that they get from that relationship and that you're going to have to also give back. So make sure that your partner knows what you need from it and make sure you know what they need from the relationship that you are able to give back what they are looking for.
- [05:24]
Joan
That's amazing. I love it. All right, now we talk finance on this podcast. So I want to ask you, Joan, what type of financial and career conversations you have? Maybe behind the scenes that we didn't see on the show.
- [05:36]
Unknown Speaker
We haven't had like, a lot of, you know, like, how much money do you have? That kind of thing. More about lifestyle. And so you can kind of, you know, figure out that you, you know, expect the life the same lifestyle as you go, you know, as you go forward. I think we both have our own money, so I'm not super worried about it, but I just wanted to make sure that. And so did he, that we have the same, like, goals going forward as far as travel and, you know, how we, you know, the ability to enjoy life like we are both hoping for. And so, you know, actually talk numbers. But we talked about lifestyle.
- [06:06]
Joan
I love it. One question I got for you that it's a fun one. We'll go to both of you guys. Joe, Chuck, what is one thing you think you overspend on? You know, you overspend on it, but unless you go completely broke, you're not going to change it. What is that one thing?
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Chalk
Did you say one thing? What about the bio for the show was he is. He's a shopper.
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Unknown Speaker
Yeah.
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Chalk
And from clothes to sporting goods to watches, the watches to. I got, I'm past the car phase. I don't need that in my life anymore. Had an airplane, had second, third homes. I just like the no drama, just easy, easy lifestyle at this point.
- [06:42]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, I think I spend way well. I'm not going to say I spend too much money. I spend the amount of money that makes me happy. I, I like nice purses. So not a cheap investment.
- [06:51]
Joan
I love that. I love that.
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Unknown Speaker
All right.
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Joan
One thing I always like to ask people after the show is behind the scenes of reality tv. Like when we, we were with a bunch of people from Bachelor Nation last night, we about some of the things that happened behind the scenes. Were there any, like, what was the most memorable thing at Chocolate Star with you behind the scenes of reality TV that you'll take on forever? Just as you think about your process and your journey.
- [07:14]
Chalk
Well, a couple of things is they did show the bromance and the show really, you know, put an emphasis on that. But I will tell you, somebody that lived through this for seven weeks, we were all better friends than really what they could show. And so just getting to know the guys, spend time with them, the stories. Jordan and I called it free group therapy. You know, if there was a one on one date, you had the whole day, you know, you've been a contestant. We had that whole day just to spend with the guys. And then I do like the mansion as far as you've got bunk rooms. I like that because you get to know your roommates. You really do. You spend a good amount of time with them and you get a little bit of their habits and those type of things. But I was roommates with Michael, Charles, L. Gary and Guy. And we really got to know each other because there's times you wake up, you know, we're a little bit older, so you wake up earlier in the morning. We didn't have to do something till 8 or 9 for a couple hours or an hour or two, we just talked to each other. So it was a great way to get to know the fellow contestants.
- [08:11]
Joan
I love that one. Quick follow up to that and then, Joan, I want to hear your answer. But I remember the bowling date and I think there's interesting symbolism there because on the show it feels like some people can become villainized when they're trying to pursue the person they love, which I always thought, quite frankly is a little ass backwards. And in that date it was clear that like you were like, this is it. I'm not here for the boys anymore. I am, I am solely locked in for Joan. Did you feel any like of that brotherhood was kind of losing or was dwindling as the time went on? And how did you handle that and some of the pressure from the other guys?
- [08:47]
Chalk
Well, Guy, at that specific date, Guy came up to me and he goes, can I have some time with Joan? I said, absolutely. And I never took Joan away from any of the other guys. Never did. We just were naturally drawn to each other. Jonathan came out and said, he goes, it was the first time we saw them as a couple. He goes, they look like a couple. And I don't remember the exact quote. And there were some gentlemen on this show that really cared for Joan. And I think that was the tough thing for them to see. It was going to happen sooner or later. It was me. Fortunately, because of our connection but for them to see it firsthand, how close we had really come together and groan, I love it.
- [09:21]
Joan
I love it. And Joan, back to that question about behind the scenes of reality tv. I think people would love to hear that answer from you.
- [09:27]
Unknown Speaker
I think that I don't think anybody really realizes how long the days are. I know you experienced it. You get up early in the morning and you film till really late at night, especially on rose ceremony nights. I mean, it's into the wee hours of the morning. Sometimes it's even light outside. And then how much you don't see. So there are cameras rolling all the time and it's all day long and there's multiple cameras with, you know, you know, filming different things. How much happens that you don't see? You know, when you have a one on one date, it's an eight hour date sometimes, and you see ten minutes of it. So, you know, so much happens that people don't see.
- [10:02]
Yeah.
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Joan
Is it good? Looking back at your journey, is there anything you would have done differently if you could think about one thing? Like, is there one thing you would have changed or done differently?
- [10:10]
Unknown Speaker
You know, I think I ended up exactly where I needed to be, especially when I looked at the guys that were left when I got down to my final four, because those row ceremonies are really, really difficult. And you do second guess yourself a lot during that time. But when I look back and think about second guesses and should I have done something different, I think I ended up exactly where I should be. So in the long run, it was right. But as it was happening, you know, you doubt yourself a lot. You've been there, you get it, you know. You know, you get down to a few people that you're trying to decide between, and you just say, okay, I just got to make a decision. Yeah. So I think, you know, in the long run, I don't regret anything I did. But while I was going through it, I had a lot of angst about it.
- [10:47]
Joan
Yeah, totally. All right, well, one of the cool things about this show is it creates opportunities and we talk careers on this podcast. As you guys have wrapped up your journey on the golden batch, Right. Do you think at all about professionally doing anything within the media space? Entertainment space, digital media, when you think about your professional careers?
- [11:03]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, I kind of do a little bit. I actually had to take a leave of absence from my job, and I think they backfilled me. So I'm not sure if I actually have a job there anymore. So I've thought a little bit about it. And it's not something that I ever gravitated to. In fact, I was actually a really shy person prior to doing this. And now I feel kind of pretty comfortable in the media world. So, like, I don't know how to go about doing this, but I like it. I think it's an interesting space. And I don't know if there's room for somebody my age coming into this, but, you know, if there is, I would certainly like to pursue it a little bit.
- [11:34]
Joan
I could see tv. It's just my. This is my two cents.
- [11:38]
Chalk
And I've. I've never been a house husband, but I think that's my next career. She had a photo shoot during one of the happy couples. And she came back. I met her in the driveway with a glass of wine. I had prepared the dinner, did the dishes and I go, because I've had the career and I still have. I'm involved with a couple of different businesses and I've had that. And it's kind of nice just to slow down.
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Joan
I don't know, Chuck, with that voice, you got that radio voice, you can be hosted. Sometimes I'm like, am I talking to Peyton Manning or am I talking to Josh?
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Chalk
I've heard that.
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Joan
The question I got for you is based on your LinkedIn and the research I did, it looks like you run an insurance agency. And correct me, that is wrong. But we always like to give viewers from a consumer perspective something from someone they look up to within the industry. So is there anything from a consumer perspective as we're looking at specific insurances, we should know that like we otherwise wouldn't unless we heard it from you.
- [12:28]
Chalk
Well, I would first say is invest in insurance company stocks. It's very profitable. And from a detailed micro perspective, insurance companies have had some years where they haven't made money, but they're making money now. And so it's a good investment there, but it still is a commodity. And what we mainly do is sell business to business insurance. I've done that my whole career and had three different businesses. I'm also involved in the construction industry as well. I've done some consulting business wise, I like that. That might be my career in the future. I have a young gentleman that would like to take over the insurance business. We'll see what happens. I always wanted to hold it open for my kids, but they're back living in Charlotte, so I don't know what will happen there. But I'm in a good place, happy, and I still want to work and that's one thing that we've talked about. I will drive Joan crazy if I don't have something to do during the day. We already know that about each other. It's like we're going to Maryland next week and I go, do you have anything I could do? Get anything fixed? What do I need to do?
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Unknown Speaker
I'm like, give me projects probably. Yeah.
- [13:25]
Joan
Literally. Sounds like my mom and dad to it. I love it.
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Unknown Speaker
You got to get a hobby.
- [13:30]
Joan
You got to get a hobby.
- [13:31]
Jason Tardick
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- [14:25]
Joan
I know there's been a lot of discussion about where you guys are going to go next. And I see that at least at.
- [14:29]
Jason Tardick
An article I read that you're looking.
- [14:30]
Joan
At places in New York this weekend. So a question I have for you is when you think about the future, have, do you have an idea of like possibly when you'd want to completely retire and make more of a permanent living situation or are you taking it day by day?
- [14:45]
Unknown Speaker
I, I'll tell you, like, the thought of retiring isn't like something that's super appealing to me. I don't want to think I want to work all time and you know, full time and you know, work a 12 hour day. But I think it keeps you young and makes your life a little more exciting and you know, as long as it doesn't interfere with some of the things that we want to travel and do. I, I think I'm, I don't think I'm ready to retire. But I haven't worked as hard as, as chalk. Like I had a lot of years off when I raised my kids. So I'm kind of a, you know, I'm, I'm, you know, back end loading my career. It seems like, you know, maybe in my 60s at this point.
- [15:17]
Chalk
Yeah.
- [15:18]
Joan
And how about for you, John, when you think about retirement, do you have an age set in stone? Are you thinking about it?
- [15:22]
Chalk
You know, it could be 63 to 65. I sold my first business when I was 50, and I thought I'd retire, and that didn't last very long. I was gone, I think, two weeks, and I started another business. That's just how I made. I love to work, and I'm pretty good at spending money, so I need to continue to work. And that's the way it is.
- [15:41]
Joan
That is the way it is. All right, so if you stayed in reality TV in any capacity, obviously it would be a dating show, but if you did something like, in the challenge space, is there one reality show that.
- [15:50]
Jason Tardick
You, you know, might have your eyes on?
- [15:51]
Joan
You'd be like, that would be fun. I'd love to do that.
- [15:54]
Chalk
Well, after the bowling date, I was nominated for House of Villains.
- [16:00]
Joan
I don't know.
- [16:02]
Chalk
And I'm like, oh, that's not really what I want to do. But what I think Joan would be great at, especially with Bachelor Nation, is consulting, and especially with the ladies that are on the show to give a mature perspective, because there's a lot of emotions and unusual circumstances that come into play. And I'd never been on a TV before, never, ever, and it's a whole different world. And then you start second guessing yourself. You might say something, you might act something a certain way, and then there is the love. Especially with Bachelor, there is the love, and people get rejected. I'm very complimentary of the show having psychologists on staff because there's times that people need it, and especially the ones that get down to the end that really care for the person but aren't selected but are eliminated. That's. It's an emotional ride, and it's real. I will tell you firsthand. It is real. People.
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Unknown Speaker
I feel like I love the idea of consulting, you know, so it's a very unique experience as, you know, and you come out the other end with a lot more knowledge and insight into what worked and what didn't work and, you know, how to handle your emotions. I love the idea of the Bachelor Golden Bachelor in Paradise. And I think that, you know, that's going to be a little bit of a challenge that I think maybe I would love to be part of that. But, like, maybe on the hosting side or, you know, can I be the bartender or something?
- [17:18]
Joan
Wells. Just mixing up kind of sales there.
- [17:20]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, Wells, you can make the drinks. I'll just do, like, the therapy. And so that would be fun. I think I would love to give Dancing with the Stars a shot. You know, a lot of energy. I love that show. I'm a huge fan. I went twice this season already. I absolutely love that. So I maybe, you know, if I'm asked, I would say yes. I'm just putting that out there in the universe.
- [17:41]
Joan
Manifest that. Let's go. Maybe dance with a star Chalk. You'll be on House of Villains. Yeah.
- [17:48]
Unknown Speaker
And I'm not Mormon, but I love the Secret lives of Mormon wives, so I don't think I'm eligible. But if, if they need a token Catholic, I'm ready.
- [17:56]
Jason Tardick
You're ready to go.
- [17:56]
Joan
You're ready to go. This, you're in the boardroom. You're the executive of abc, Warner Brothers, Disney, all the places you got to decide the next Golden Bachelor. Who are you going with?
- [18:07]
Chalk
I've been in a lot of boardrooms. I have eight guys that I think would be perfect at it. I put it in a hat and I pull it out because each one has a different characteristic, different personalities. And you can go from 1, 1 to the right of Charles, Charles Ling to a Keith to a Jordan, to all these guys to Pascal that bring uniqueness to it. And we've talked about this numerous times and we honestly do not have one that we think, you know, it's not that they're not a standout, but I think each one is so individual.
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Unknown Speaker
And I think that, you know, I said it earlier, you don't see so much of what happens in the house. So maybe some of these guys personalities weren't as developed and the nation didn't really get to know him. I mean, obviously Charles is just loved and of course he would be amazing. And Mark was well known before he ever even came on the show because of Kelsey and Joey. So, you know, he's already out there. But I think there's so many guys that were kind of, kind of in the background and you don't notice, like Greg, he was hilarious. He was like two PhDs. He's smart, he has the quickest wit. He's just funny as can be. You know, I don't think Dan was, you know, super highlighted. There's only just so many minutes in an episode that you can show things and, you know, you're concentrating on dates and, you know, other important things that are happening that just these interaction the day to day, you know, guys that we get to see are. There's so many of them. So I, you know, and I'll tell you it could be a little bit of a challenge. There's a lot of these guys that, now that they've come off of the show, have become very popular, and some of them are already pairing off. They, like five of them are dating somebody. Seriously? Yeah. Yeah.
- [19:37]
Joan
Get some tips from these boys. The question for you is being on the Golden Bachelor and then Golden Bachelorette. There are obvious differences that we all know, but what would you say was, like, the biggest difference between those two experiences that maybe wouldn't be so obvious?
- [19:52]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, well, going from being a contestant to the main is huge, but maybe the less obvious one was, like, my apprehension going into Golden Bachelor was so much more significant than it was going as to even be the lead on Bachelorette because I didn't know, you know, really what the heart of the show was going to be. And if we were going to end up looking foolish, like, you know, a bunch of old people coming on TV and dating, and it wouldn't look undignified. And, you know, there's a question in my mind at that point, like, was I being selfish? Do you. Is it really right to think that you get to have a second love in life and, you know, that, you know, everybody thinks that at this age, you should be taking a backseat to the next generation that's coming up and you should be in, like, a support role and to, you know, when you go out and find love and you prioritize your own life, then you're not prioritizing maybe your kids and letting you know the next generation move in. So I was very apprehensive and nervous going on Golden Bachelor. My fears were alleviated pretty quickly. I saw. I got to meet the producers and people working on the show, and I knew that they were sincere and they really wanted us to find love and they were going to make that as easy as possible. So I think the thing that people didn't see was probably how apprehensive and hard it is when you first go on and your second go at it is a lot more comfortable. And, I don't know, maybe you felt the same thing when you did it.
- [21:10]
Jason Tardick
Yeah.
- [21:11]
Joan
Another question that leads to that is the person. We talked a little professional, financial. At the personal side of things, everyone adores and loves. Both you guys need so much support. But also, at any level, when you're on this stage, there's also no. It could just be within your family. It could be one or two haters online. Has any of that impacted you at any extent?
- [21:30]
Jason Tardick
Are you hear some of that stuff?
- [21:31]
Joan
How do you Handle it from a family perspective. Has there been any curveballs that they're like, this is different. This is a little harder than I expected. Seeing mom or dad on TV and seeing someone maybe make a comment or something like that.
- [21:44]
Chalk
I think ABC did a very good job of educating when you start, and they go through social media training and they say there's going to be 90, 10, 95, 5. It's just going to happen. And I mean, I had somebody come at me about my dog. And you're like, really? And my daughter looks at all that for me because after the first week, I go, I'm done. I just, I'm a positive person. And you just can't make everyone happy, especially in TV and reality tv. And, you know, they might be going through a tough time. They just might not like me. We had something unique happen. I'd never watched an episode, never had before I went on the show. We're at a happy couples, and we go, let's watch one of the previous series. And we watched a series, and the first day, the getting out of the limo, it was a female lead and a bunch of guys. Within five minutes, I had five guys I didn't like. So I became a fan going, I don't like that guy. I don't like that guy. You don't even know who they are. It's amazing. This human nature and the psychology of this show is just incredible. So you just have thick skin and you just don't take it personal.
- [22:47]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah.
- [22:47]
Chalk
You know, anything that happens, you can't. You know who you are, and you just have to be positive about the whole experience.
- [22:52]
Unknown Speaker
I was shocked by, you know, again, 95 positive, 5% negative. But the negative, it's so hurtful. And so I try very hard not to look at it, but I want to see the 95. Not because I need the validation, but because so many people have reached out to both of us and talked about, like, how similar their journey, how they've lost a loved one or how hard it was getting back and how hard it was with their families. And, like, I feel like I really want to talk to these people and answer them. And so you have to kind of weed through those negative ones, even if you don't want to see them. You have to. If you want to, like, actually be, you know, a kind person and talk to the other people. Like you have people out there, you're affecting their lives a little bit, which is like such a. Such an honor. And I want to make sure I answer them.
- [23:34]
Joan
Yeah, exactly. And I think to your point and to Chuck's point, it. It's like you don't get enough time that sometimes you're mislabeled. And Even though it's 5% or 2% or 1%, you want to be. You want to step into that. And it can hurt. It's a real thing, and it just comes with the territory. Last question I got before we get a quick trading secret from each of you is wedding. Would you film your wedding? Would you make it a TV series, a show? What do you think?
- [23:57]
Unknown Speaker
I'm, like, gone through a lot of, like, reflection on that because we knew we would be asked that, obviously. And in the beginning, I just said, you know, everything has been so public, and I think it's just like the end of the love story. I really want it to be just about us and our families and our friends. But as I think about it and, you know, I wanted this journey to be not just about, you know, who, myself and whoever I end up with if I end up with somebody. I wanted it to be about, like, the bigger message that, you know, dating at this age and having a great outcome is possible and, like, that message of hope. And I feel like maybe, like, it wouldn't be, like, true to the whole journey. Like, I'd be stopping it before the book ended by not showing, you know, the ending that we actually found love when we got married. So I think I'm open for, you know, maybe a more public wedding.
- [24:40]
Chalk
I have three questions on that.
- [24:42]
Jason Tardick
Yeah.
- [24:42]
Chalk
When? Wear suit or tux. That's all. That's my involvement.
- [24:47]
Unknown Speaker
He wants to have nothing to do with the winning penny, which is just fine.
- [24:50]
Joan
A guy like you, I think the answer is tough. So I just. That's just my guess.
- [24:56]
Jason Tardick
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- [25:46]
Joan
So, you know, we didn't get to.
- [25:47]
Jason Tardick
Talk as much finance and care.
- [25:49]
Joan
I'd love with your perspectives of what you guys have done and how you've changed things over the course of your lives to the good one. Trading secret that's unique to your circumstances. It could be career focused, finance focused, or personally focused.
- [26:02]
Chalk
Don't sweat the small stuff. And before you were to say a negative comment or do something that might affect somebody, sleep on it or really consider the other person's feelings.
- [26:14]
Unknown Speaker
I think for me, I'm more of a relationship person. So I think prioritizing your relationships, you know, the ones that are important, make sure you, you, you know, nurse them and foster them and the, you know, the ones that aren't, you know, aren't giving you what you need out of life. You know, there's only so many hours in a day and, you know, pick your friends, pick your relationships and concentrate on those.
- [26:33]
Joan
I love it. Don't sweat the small stuff and just this idea of like shedding, like focus on the people that really matter most and don't be afraid to lose those relationships. Start bringing value to you. Joe, Chuck, the congratulations on everything. We can't wait to see what's next. I'm ready to see you in a tux on tv getting married.
- [26:48]
Chalk
All right, I'll be there.
- [26:50]
Joan
I love it. Thank you guys so much for being on this episod, your secrets. We appreciate it.
- [26:55]
Unknown Speaker
Thank you.
- [26:55]
Chalk
Have a good day.
- [26:56]
Jason Tardick
We are recapping the Joan and Chalk episode and we're not doing it with the curious Canadian. We are doing with a very familiar face of Trading Secrets, Susanna Summers, AKA Bachelor data, pop culture data, and all things numbers. So, Susanna, thank you so much for being back on Training Secrets.
- [27:15]
Unknown Speaker
Thanks for having me back. It's one of my favorite podcasts.
- [27:17]
Jason Tardick
Oh, it is always, always an honor to have you. But let's get into the numbers, what you do best, especially after just hearing Joan and Chalk after the finale and what's new with them, where they're going. They even talked a little bit about the fact they haven't really talked money, but we'll see where that goes. What I want to talk with you is ratings. So you are the ratings expert and we saw that the first season, the Golden Bachelor performed exceptionally well. And what I read and you could even probably correct this, that the finale reached 9.42 million viewers across all platforms, marking the highest audience for the Bachelor franchise since 2020. So we know Golden Bachelor performed really well. I'm sure you have even more refined numbers. But as we just talked to Joan, how did the Golden Bachelor do in comparison to the Golden Bachelorette?
- [28:03]
Unknown Speaker
So it was a bit of an opposite story when it comes to ratings for Golden Bachelorette. Unfortunately, the big headlines this season was that since the premiere, it was one of the lowest watched premieres in franchise history. But the big story here was actually around the demo number. So when it comes to ratings within US Television, it's all measured by this company called Nielsen. And the big thing to know is how we're measuring the data. So first things first, there's different ways that we can look at the data. The number you were mentioning for Golden Bachelor, the finale, that 9 million number, that's a more extended number. So are we looking at the same day viewing? Are we looking at three days out, seven days out? So the way that I like to look at the ratings is by looking at same plus live day viewing and DVR playback through 3am the reason why I like to look at this number is because this has been the most consistently reported number since the beginning of this show in the early 2000. So it allows us to compare apples to apples. And also important to note as streaming has become a thing, those streaming numbers are being incorporated into the same plus live day viewing and DVR playback. So within those numbers, the two things that we're going to look at that are reported are the total viewers and then the demo number. Now, the demo number this is under we really want to pay attention to because this number is going to refer to the rating for viewership that the figures are for a specific demographic group. So most commonly that's going to be the 18 to 49 age group in the United States. And the demographic number, it's highly prized by the industry because advertisers look at it to look at the representative group that's most perceived to have the highest buying power, brand loyalty and openness to buying new products. So we're going to look at that demo number because it's the number that's basically the bottom line on the financial health of the franchise for the show that we're looking at. So when it comes to the demo number, this is the percentage of a specific demographic group. So that 18 to 49 that's watching the show of Joan's season eight of the nine episodes in her season were some of the lowest rated episodes of all time. So if we look at all the episodes, I think we've had 450 something episodes of this franchise in the lowest 20 episodes ever. Eight of those episodes were in there. So that was the big story this season, is that it didn't just perform badly in terms of viewership. The demo number was not good.
- [30:38]
Jason Tardick
That's so interesting to me because, I mean, you and I both agree. We've talked about it. Joan killed it as the Golden Bachelor. She did such a great job. So what do you think? How do. What parallels do you draw? Like, if you're sitting in the boardroom, I always love to ask you this question, but you're sitting in the ABC boardroom. What parallels are you drawing from the success of the Golden Bachelor then compared to some of these 18 to 24 demo ratings that are like, it sounds like that's the gold, that's the crux of the analytics that performed that badly. What's your draw? What's your takeaway? And then what do you do from here?
- [31:11]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah. So I think the big mistake that the franchise made this year is that they put the Golden Bachelorette on Wednesday night competing against Survivor. So Survivor is a competition show. People want to watch it live. They don't want to get spoiled. So as a result, it was competing against a show that was getting double the amount of viewers and double the demo that Golden Bachelorette was seeing. And we saw the same problem last year with Bachelor in Paradise 2023, which as we all know, didn't happen this year. They took a pause on it. Bachelor in paradise last summer. It was some of the lowest rated episodes and some of the lowest watched episodes. And it was on after Golden Bachelor. So Golden Bachelor was pulling in the same night some of the highest viewership numbers. And then Bachelor in Paradise was tanking because it was on at a bad time on a hard night. So for Golden Bachelorette, if they want to keep this golden franchise coming back, they're going to need to put it on a better night. And the time of the year that they put golden on this year, it's a really competitive time of the year. It's going against sports, it's going against Survivor. There's stuff on each night. There was also one episode that was rated horribly that was against the World Series game that had 18 million viewers. So the first thing is, what night are they putting it on? But the other thing to keep in mind is that Golden Bachelorette came off of some pretty difficult time for the franchise. So first and foremost, we had two people were cast on the show for Joan's season, men that had former restraining orders against them. This was big news. But it was also big news because it came off of the news of Devin on Jen season, Jen's final winner, him having a very troubling past, to say the least, of restraining order and arrest record and still being cast on the show. So I think that also contributed to kind of this loss of steam for the show. And on top of that, we had Golden Bachelor where they pushed the wedding so quickly. And then there was the divorce that came after that. I think kind of all of that combined led to people watching less, which is such a disappointment because I truly think Joan was one of the best leads that we've had, especially compared to Gary last year. I think Joan was fantastic. But the other thing to keep in mind in the conversation of demos with this franchise is that when you have a male led season versus a female led season, the female led season always perform worse than the male led seasons. And I know, hold up, everybody's gonna think, oh, that's so misogynistic. Whenever the woman is the lead, nobody wants to watch. But people need to remember that the majority of the screen time is actually going to the contestants. So personally, I think the Bachelor performs so well, not because it's a male lead, but because the majority of the people that we are watching are women and the people who watch the Bachelor franchise are majority women. So while the Bachelorette is a female led show, the majority of the contestants that we're watching on Golden Bachelorette and Bachelorette are men, which are going to be less engaging for women to watch. Wanting to follow, wanting to know what products they're using, wanting to watch their lifestyle. Women are going to relate less with men than they do with women.
- [34:17]
Jason Tardick
Fascinating information, especially when you consider how much screen time the cast is getting versus the actual lead. It makes perfect sense everything that you're saying. When we think about Wednesday versus Monday, I'm assuming that Monday, Tuesday, those have to be the biggest nights of Nielsen ratings and viewership.
- [34:34]
Chalk
Right.
- [34:34]
Jason Tardick
So it's like comparing apples to oranges. Golden Bachelor versus Golden Bachelorette. If you're airing on different days of the week, Right?
- [34:40]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah. And we've seen that historically in this franchise too. We saw 2022, Bachelor in Paradise. They alternated between Monday and Tuesday. The previous season, most of the episodes were on Mondays, some of them were on Tuesdays. Depending on the week, we've seen kind of that alternating viewership depending on the time of the year. But typically Monday night episodes just perform so well for this franchise. And the time of the year that Golden Bachelorette was on, it was going against, you know, Monday night football, sports, you know, it's tough to compete against that.
- [35:11]
Jason Tardick
I love it. Recently I started looking at my wellness routine to see if there was a way to enhance my results. I looked at the vitamins and realized there just weren't as clean as I thought. The list of ingredients was long with things like gelatin, artificial flavors which have no beneficial value and can cause digestive issues. After doing some research, I came across Vimergy. Vimergy makes liquid vitamins and supplements that use clean ingredients and are not loaded with unnecessary fillers and binders like citric acid. And because they're liquid, they absorb faster than tablets, gummies, and capsules. And unlike multivitamins, you can customize your vitamin routine so you only take what you need and nothing that you don't. They're so easy to integrate into my day. I add them to my morning juice or smoothie or at night in my tea before bed, which by my voice, you could probably tell I need. I am so happy with my results, and I think you will be too, if you give them a try. Right now, Vimergy is offering my listeners free shipping. Just use code trading secrets and you can save up to 12% with their mix and save program. Try them today and tell me what you think. Okay. So as we do if we look forward into this franchise. Right. So you got the Golden Bachelorette, which just aired. We know that Grant season just finished filming, so that will come to fruition here, I think probably in the. The winter. Right. What is the. What does the lineup look like right now? Do you know what is officially announced for the franchise?
- [36:33]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah. So Grant season is going to premiere at the end of January. We just got the premiere date.
- [36:38]
Jason Tardick
Okay.
- [36:38]
Unknown Speaker
We haven't seen a lot of marketing for his season yet, which is a bit odd. The one video that they put out felt very photoshopped to say the least. But we do see better marketing material as we get closer to the premiere. So people need to keep that in mind. I've seen a lot of people being like, oh, they're doing Grant dirty. Hold off, wait until we're about a few weeks out from the show premiering, and then we can start to talk about how much marketing budget it's getting. From what I've been hearing, though, there have been some cuts on the back end. But that doesn't just go for Bachelor. We also heard that there were a lot of cuts for Dancing with the Stars, and yet Dancing with the Stars had one of its best season in years and historic. Not only viewership. Everybody was talking viewership journey into the stars, but their demo numbers were insane this season.
- [37:22]
Jason Tardick
Okay, we're going to talk about Dancing with the Stars in one second because I find it fascinating, especially being at the finale and hearing the team talk about the massive success. Like, I think one of the best shows, best rated shows on ABC network was this past season. Before we go there, we got the Bachelor and then is it slated to go golden? Bachelor, Bachelorette, paradise, or what is the schedule currently look like or what are you estimating that it will look like?
- [37:49]
Unknown Speaker
So they haven't announced the schedule yet, but if they follow what we've seen for the last few years and also historically, we'll have Grant season and then the future Bachelorette, which they haven't announced yet. We don't know who it's going to be, if it's going to be from Grant season or a previous contestant. And then we can probably expect that in the summertime as soon as Bachelorette ends, we'll probably see either paradise come back, which they did announce paradise is happening this year. It seems like they wanted to give a few more years to build up a better cast because they were kind of rushing each season. It doesn't seem like the casts were really producing as much buzz as we've seen. But now that we've had Joey's season, which not only had great ratings, but the contestants were going so viral themselves on social media, I think we're going to see a lot more buy into Bachelor in Paradise this year. And then if I had to guess, they'll do another golden season later this year. But if I had to guess, it might be up in flux after Jones low ratings.
- [38:43]
Jason Tardick
Interesting. So you think we're gonna go golden? Bachelor, Bachelor, Bachelorette, Paradise. Question mark for Golden Bachelor. Golden Bachelorette for the fall.
- [38:52]
Unknown Speaker
All right, yeah.
- [38:53]
Jason Tardick
Okay. There's the prediction from the one and only the Bachelor data, Susanna Summers. Susanna, we did talk a little bit about Dancing with the Stars. You already alluded to the success. Obviously, it was a fun season. Having some friends out there and some people that we work with was just so exciting. But never have I seen, you know, what? I've been watching Dance with the Stars for so many years have I seen this much buzz with Dance with the Stars. Tiktoks, Instagram, the engagement rates on social media, the ratings, all the things I don't know the numbers, but I just saw it everywhere. What did the numbers look like?
- [39:25]
Unknown Speaker
It was absolutely insane. So the premiere got about 5 million viewers, and then episodes two through seven got about 4 million. Now when we get to the finale at the last few episodes, the last three episodes did so well. So the finale got 6.364, so about 6.4 million viewers and a 1.14 demo. Now, that demo number, to compare it to Bachelor, and especially what we were seeing with golden, the lowest rated demo episode was Jen's episode season four at a 0.25. And then Jones premiere got a demo of 0.26. So the fact that Dancing with the Stars finale got a 1.14 demo is insane. That means that that show is so valuable to advertisers and they're going to be getting way more money from the network for future seasons. The other episodes that we saw just before the finale got 5.1 and 5.2 million viewers with a 0.71 and a 0.75 demo. To put that in perspective, the last time that Bachelor has seen a 1.14 demo was Bachelor in Paradise 2019. A lot of the episodes had that rating number. And then Bachelorette 2020, we had a lot of episodes in that rating range. Now, I will say Katie season, the next Bachelorette that we saw after Claire and Tayshia dropped to 0.88. So that was a pretty big drop there. And then technically, Clayton had one episode that hit that 1.14 rating. But the last season where we saw those ratings come in consistently in the Bachelor franchise was Matt's season. So those numbers are fantastic. And I attribute most of it to the TikTok effect and the way that this franchise has really embraced this upcoming generation. Reminder that demo number is 18 to 49 years old. And while a lot of us, myself included, we are starting to age out from that 18 to 20s age range. I'm in my mid-30s. We really need to see the show embracing this upcoming generation for the health of the show. And I know that there's a lot of mixed opinions in the Dancing with the Stars world around the embracing of TikTok. A lot of people are saying we're spending too much time on it. They're getting distracted. They're making dances that are just catering to TikTok audiences and going viral. That's what the show needs to continue to be successful and stay on the show. They have to embrace this upcoming generation.
- [41:53]
Jason Tardick
So as a business takeaway here, it feels as though and we're hearing it too from companies that we work with with. They are all targeting the next generation. Right, The Gen Z's, the gen Alphas. Then what we would likely see is a shift is younger leads, younger contestants. Right, because they're more connected with the younger generation, which will then get more engaged with the show, which will then perform on social media in the ratings. Is that correct?
- [42:18]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, for the most part. But I mean, if we look at Dancing with the Stars this season, one of the contestants that led to the most social media growth, it wasn't just Riley the pro, but it was actually Ilona the rugby player that was the star of the Olympics this summer. The thing that Ilona did differently this season, that we are now seeing everybody else on the show embrace the pros. We're even seeing the music department and the costume departments from Dancing with the Stars embracing this method and comparing especially Ilona to Sochi Gomez and Charli D'Amelio from previous seasons who are young. Embrace TikTok. What Alona did differently is that the amount of content that she makes is insane. This woman, I mean, while she was at the Olympics, it's like a two and a half week stint that she was there. She made 64 videos for Tick Tock while competing in the Olympics. Like here I am looking at my own methodology being like, I can only put out two to three videos a week. What's my excuse? What is my excuse?
- [43:17]
Jason Tardick
64 videos. And the other thing too, like you can put out videos. Her videos are unbelievable. They all cr. Every single one of them are so well thought out. Wow. It's unbelievable.
- [43:27]
Unknown Speaker
That's what we're seeing. The rest of the pros and even the contestants embracing is the volume. And we've seen a lot of the pros that have been going on podcast interviews talking about this is that Alona doesn't think. She doesn't have a drafts folder. She makes a video and she puts it out immediately. And the reason why this is important, if you're listening at home being like, but why does that matter? Maybe I'm not consuming this content. Why is this important to the show? The reason why creating this behind the scenes content in between each episode is important is because it gets people to be die hard fans of the people that they're rooting for. So if you look at something like Survivor, Love Island, Dancing with the Stars, these are competition shows where people are bought in the way that people are still writing multi page think pieces on how certain people were robbed in the Dancing with The Stars finale. Because the way that this show is working, these contestants are making all this behind the scenes content. I can sell you myself. I am tuning into TikTok on a daily basis during the season to see what Riley and Steven are up to because she's doing a day by day blog. She's showing us everything they've been up to. When she hurt her ankle. We're seeing behind the scenes of that. We're seeing little snippets of their dances. We're getting that buy in. That thing leads to us wanting to vote harder for them. So if we look just at social media growth that's come from this Dancing with the Stars this season. Alona, during her time on the show between Instagram and TikTok, she grew 1.7 million followers between the two platforms. Riley, 750,000 new followers. Even the Dancing with the Stars account itself that just posts about the show, those two accounts grew over 600,000 followers. So those behind the scenes content, it gives us more, more content to buy in and fight for the people that we want to win the show. It increases participation from the audience, if that makes sense.
- [45:19]
Jason Tardick
It makes perfect sense. It's unbelievable to see those results. It's also interesting to see, right same network, same like a lot of crossover, but then also see the golden Bachelor, golden Bachelorette and of course Joey season of the Bachelor results this year, this past year and what it looks like moving forward. How do they embrace TikTok? How do they embrace the younger next generation? Do they or do they not? Will they make the changes? Will they not? We don't know. But what we do know is that we will have Susannah Summers back on to tell us if they did what it looks like and what the future holds. It is always so good to talk to you, Susanna. I mean, the information you just provided us was next level masterclass. I know the money mafia will love it.
- [46:00]
Joan
Make sure to go give us five.
- [46:01]
Jason Tardick
Stars and give a shout out to Susanna. And Susanna, you have pop culture data going on. You have rethink data going on. Where can everyone find all the stuff you have going on and tell us what's new in the world of all things. Susanna Summers.
- [46:15]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, so you can find me on Instagram. TikTok mainly on Instagram. We're doing a lot of visual content. Also launching a substack this year, so going to be providing some extra content, talking podcast episodes, written pieces. So if you guys want to follow, just find me on Instagram and then you can find all of our stuff in there.
- [46:31]
Jason Tardick
Okay, go check her out right now. Go follow her. All this information, it's unbelievable. I believe one day all the big media companies are going to be hiring you as the head consultant. This information's invaluable. It's fascinating and it's perfect for trading secrets. Susanna, thank you so much for joining us.
- [46:47]
Unknown Speaker
Thanks for having me.
- [47:16]
Susanna Summers
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Unknown Speaker
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- [47:43]
Chalk
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Unknown Speaker
18/Terms and conditions apply.
- [47:46]
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Jason Tardick
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