221. Brian Kelly: The Points Guy breaks down how to win at travel! From mastering miles to maximizing the potential of points, the expert tips YOU need to know before your next trip.

Summary

Podcast Summary: Trading Secrets Episode 221 - Brian Kelly on Winning at Travel

In Episode 221 of Trading Secrets, hosted by Jason Tartick from Audioboom Studios, entrepreneur and travel expert Brian Kelly, founder of The Points Guy, shares invaluable insights on navigating the increasingly complex world of travel. Released on February 10, 2025, this episode delves deep into strategies for mastering miles, maximizing points, and making informed decisions to enhance your travel experiences while saving money.

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1. Rising Costs of Travel: Understanding the Inflation Impact

Brian Kelly opens the conversation by addressing the significant increase in travel costs from 2019 to 2024. He highlights the disparity between airfare and other travel-related expenses:

• Travel Price Index Increases:
  • Airfare: Up by 20%
  • Lodgings: Up by 11%
  • Recreation: Up by 17%
  • Food and Beverage: Up by 29%
  • Consumer Price Index: Up by 22%

Quote:
"Airfare is just one tiny component of the total cost of flying these days. It's the fees that airlines are raking in billions and billions."
— Brian Kelly [03:06]

Kelly explains that while airfare might appear stable compared to other expenses, ancillary fees—such as seat assignments and boarding—have soared, making overall travel more expensive.

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2. Booking Strategies: Direct vs. Online Travel Agencies

Kelly emphasizes the importance of where you book your flights. He warns against solely chasing the cheapest prices through online travel agencies (OTAs) like Expedia or Priceline, which often lead to hidden costs and reduced flexibility.

Key Points:

• Booking directly with airlines like Southwest can offer better deals in the long run, such as free checked bags and easier rebooking in case of cancellations.
• OTAs might present lower upfront prices but can result in higher overall costs due to additional fees.

Quote:
"Cheap is expensive. By booking through the wrong sites, you might save $20 on basic economy but end up paying $50 for a bag you thought was free."
— Brian Kelly [05:01]

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3. The Value of Travel Advisors: When to Use Them

Travel advisors, now often referred to as travel advisors, can be invaluable, especially for complex itineraries or luxury travel. Kelly outlines scenarios where using a travel advisor is beneficial:

Benefits:

• Problem-Solving: Travel advisors can swiftly reticket you during cancellations without the hassle of lengthy OTA customer service calls.
• Expertise: They possess deep knowledge of destinations, like African safaris, ensuring tailored and optimized travel plans.
• Exclusive Perks: Luxury travel advisors often secure upgrades and exclusive deals that aren't available to the general public.

Quote:
"Luxury travel advisors can be worth their weight in gold because when things go wrong, airlines do not care about you."
— Brian Kelly [09:04]

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4. Flight Booking Tools: Mastering Google Flights and Skiplagged

Kelly introduces effective tools for booking flights, focusing on Google Flights and Skiplagged:

• Google Flights:
  • Explore Function: Allows users to discover the cheapest destinations based on flexible dates and locations.
  • Price Tracking: Provides historical price data to determine if a fare is low, medium, or high.

Quote:
"If you use Google Flights' Explore tab, you can see where all the deals are without searching each destination individually."
— Brian Kelly [14:19]

• Skiplagged:
  • Hidden City Ticketing: Enables travelers to book cheaper flights by exiting at a layover point, effectively saving money.

Quote:
"Skip lagging is not illegal, but it can get you banned from an airline if abused."
— Brian Kelly [22:22]

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5. Consumer Protections: Navigating US and EU Regulations

The episode contrasts US and EU consumer protections in air travel:

• United States:
  • The Department of Transportation (DOT) requires airlines to issue refunds for delays over three hours or cancellations, but offers limited additional compensation.
  • No guaranteed compensation beyond basic refunds.

Quote:
"In the US, the Department of Transportation states if an airline delays a flight three hours or more or cancels it for any reason, you're owed a refund. There is no compensation beyond that."
— Brian Kelly [25:01]

• European Union:
  • EU261 Compensation: Passengers flying out of Europe are entitled to cash compensation for delays and cancellations, providing stronger consumer protections.

Quote:
"If you're leaving Europe on any carrier, you're owed cash compensation from the airline for delays or cancellations."
— Brian Kelly [29:16]

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6. Travel Insurance: Best Practices and Recommendations

Kelly advises against purchasing travel insurance directly through airlines or hotels, suggesting instead reputable marketplaces:

• Recommended Platforms:
  • InsureMyTrip.com: A marketplace offering competitive rates and comprehensive coverage.

Quote:
"Never book travel insurance directly through the airline or hotel. Use marketplaces like InsureMyTrip.com to find the best policies."
— Brian Kelly [35:58]

• When to Purchase:
  • High-value trips with non-refundable deposits.
  • Situations where unexpected events (health issues, family emergencies) might necessitate trip cancellations.

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7. Credit Card Strategies for Travel: Transferable Points vs. Airline Miles

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around optimizing credit card usage for travel rewards:

• Transferable Points:
  • Advantages: Flexibility to transfer points to various airline and hotel partners, maximizing value.
  • Recommended Cards: Amex Platinum, Chase Sapphire, Capital One Venture X.

Quote:
"The number one type of credit card I recommend is a transferable points credit card. This allows you to transfer to tons of different partners, maximizing your travel options."
— Brian Kelly [43:00]

• Airline-Specific Miles:
  • Limitations: Often devalued and tied to a single airline, reducing flexibility.

Quote:
"Spending on an airline credit card earns you just one airline mile. The real value lies in transferable points."
— Brian Kelly [40:59]

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8. Maximizing Points: Transfer Bonuses and Utilizing Tools

Kelly shares advanced strategies for maximizing the value of accumulated points:

• Transfer Bonuses:
  • Periodic promotions can offer up to 40% more points when transferring to specific partners like Virgin Atlantic.

Quote:
"With transfer bonuses, you can get up to 40% more points by transferring to partners like Virgin Atlantic, significantly increasing the value of your points."
— Brian Kelly [44:46]

• Tools:
  • Point Me: Described as the "Google Flights for award flights," it helps users find the best ways to redeem their points across various partners.

Quote:
"Point Me checks the availability on all transfer partners and tells you the most efficient way to redeem your points for maximum value."
— Brian Kelly [46:21]

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9. Hotel Booking Secrets: Leveraging Co-Branded Credit Cards and Perks

When it comes to accommodations, Kelly underscores the importance of co-branded credit cards tied to major hotel chains:

• Co-Branded Cards:
  • Offer immediate perks like free nights and elite status benefits.
  • Examples: Marriott, Hyatt, Hilton co-branded cards provide valuable benefits that often outweigh their annual fees.

Quote:
"For hotels, co-branded cards make a lot of sense because you can get more value from the perks, like free nights and elite status, which often exceed the cost of the card."
— Brian Kelly [49:12]

• Strategy:
  • Use co-branded cards for hotel stays to capitalize on perks while maintaining a separate transferable points card for daily spending to maximize rewards.

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10. Final Trading Secrets: Optimizing Credit Card Usage and Elite Status

In wrapping up, Kelly offers actionable advice for leveraging accumulated points and maintaining elite travel status:

• Spending Points Wisely:
  • Use miles for high-value redemptions like upgrades or award flights, especially before potential devaluations.

Quote:
"Use your points before they devalue. Delta miles are currently worth around one cent each, so redeeming a million miles can be equivalent to $10,000 in flights."
— Brian Kelly [47:05]

• Maintaining Elite Status:
  • Evaluate the true value of elite status against the costs of maintaining it through credit card spend.
  • Consider transferring points to maintain flexibility rather than being tied to a single airline.

Quote:
"Your opportunity cost is high with airline-specific cards. Transferring points to more flexible options often provides greater overall value."
— Brian Kelly [47:20]

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Conclusion and Additional Resources

Brian Kelly's expertise provides listeners with a comprehensive roadmap to mastering travel in an era of rising costs and complex reward systems. By leveraging the right tools, understanding consumer protections, and strategically using credit cards and travel advisors, travelers can optimize their experiences while minimizing expenses.

Key Takeaways:

• Book Directly: Whenever possible, book directly with airlines to avoid hidden fees and gain better flexibility.
• Use Transferable Points: Invest in credit cards that offer transferable points to maximize reward flexibility and value.
• Leverage Travel Advisors: Especially for luxury or complex trips, utilizing a knowledgeable travel advisor can save time and money.
• Stay Informed on Protections: Understand the differences between US and EU consumer protections to better navigate flight disruptions.
• Optimize Hotel Stays: Use co-branded credit cards to unlock valuable hotel perks and free nights.

Resources:

• Brian Kelly's Website: ThePointsGuy.com
• Book: How to Win at Travel by Brian Kelly (Pre-order available)
• Tools Mentioned:
  • Google Flights
  • Skiplagged.com
  • InsureMyTrip.com
  • Point Me

Listeners interested in maximizing their travel rewards and navigating the complexities of modern travel are encouraged to explore these resources and consider Brian Kelly's strategies to enhance their journeys.

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Giveaway Alert: As a special bonus, five copies of Brian Kelly's upcoming book How to Win at Travel are being given away. To enter, submit your biggest takeaway from this episode, include your Instagram handle in the review, and stay tuned for the announcement of the winners in the show notes.

Happy Travels and Smart Spending!

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today we are joined by entrepreneur, author, travel expert, and founder of the Points Guy, Brian Kelly. Brian started the Points Guy as a humble blog while working as an IT recruiter for Morgan Stanley, where he would share his thoughts and insights on maximizing credit card rewards and frequent flyer miles. Over the years, the Points Guy has grown into the leading voice in loyalty programs, points miles, credit cards, and travel. Brian has grown the Points Guy to be a powerhouse travel and lifestyle media platform that's reaching millions and millions and millions of people around the world monthly. If you want Brian's entire full story, we got into it on Trading Secret not too long ago, so check out that episode. But you are now labeled Forbes number one travel influencer, among other rewards and accolades. And, Brian, you now have a new book coming out titled how to Win at Travel, which will be out February 4th. By the way, we're buying five copies right now. So go give us your biggest takeaway from this episode. Put your Instagram handle on the review. We have five copies to give away. But, Brian, thank you for being on Training Secret.

[B]

Thanks for having me.

[A]

Welcome back.

[B]

It's good to be back and in studio. I think the last time I think we did virtual.

[A]

We did virtual. Yeah. This.

[B]

It's much better to be in person.

[A]

You are a handsome man. And you are a tall man.

[B]

I know. Thanks for giving me the sofa so I can.

[A]

How tall are you?

[B]

Six, seven. But true story. I actually think I've got. Most people get shorter with age.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Last several years, I got into stretching. Yeah. In Chelsea, there's a place called stretch space.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So for an hour a week, usually I get professionally stretched, like on a heated table. They theragun you. They stretch you. And I swear my posture's gotten better. So I like, used to always clear door. You know, I have. I have, like, a radar in my head. I can clear most doorways.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm, like, hitting my head on things now that I didn't used to. And. And people that I know are like, I think you're getting taller.

[A]

So now that's a training secret I didn't expect to get from you. Brian was taller instead of.

[B]

They. They actually have the crazy surgery now where they'll hack your, like, legs open and.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So instead of doing that, just go get stretched. It's more enjoyable than a massage.

[A]

You're one for one. That's. That's a training secret I'm going to take to the bank. I could use another inch. All right, let's Talk a little bit. I mean, first of all, your book, I cannot wait to read it. I was, I was reading the synopsis online. So many great tricks, tips and trading secrets in there. But I want to talk a whole first before we get into some of the specific tips. So, percentage change in travel, and this is by specific indexes. This is from June 2024 to 2019. We see that the travel price index is up 20%. We see that lodgings up 11%, recreation 17%, food and beverage, to put in perspective, 29%. And then the consumer price index is up 22%. So we're just in general seeing all things when it relates to travel, at least from these statistics. Prices going up. What are you seeing with all your research? When we look into 2025.

[B]

Interesting. So if you just look at airfare, it's about even to what 2019 used to be. However, if you just say, oh, well, then airfare, we're, we're, we're doing pretty good, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But airfare is just one tiny component of the total cost of flying these days. It's the fees that airlines are raking in billions and billions. So simple things like seating assignments used to be free, and now most airlines charge for it. Boarding. I mean, they're figuring even in business class. Now you fly British Airways, you use your miles to fly British Airways, they're going to charge you to $100 to select your business class seat. So there's now, you know, you, you redeem cheap business class on Emirates and Qatar, they won't let you in the lounge. So they're de bundling everything. So some of those statistics can be okay, well, you know, airfare is actually still pretty cheap, but the reality is consumers are being hit across the board and paying for things that used to be free. So travel has gotten much more expensive. And I see people making so many mistakes that instead of just constantly answering dms, you know, of people having issues. I'm like, it is time for me to write a book to just like teach you from start to finish, like the core foundations of not just how to save money, but enjoy travel because it can be really fun.

[A]

It seems like almost, yeah. Every business that where prices have increased, they have strategically made it more complicated because the more complicated you make it for the consumer, the more profitability typically. Right. That's actually like a basic philosophy of credit cards.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Make it a, a complicated process. Don't educate the consumer and make a fortune off transaction fees and then also a fortune off late payments. Consumers are now getting smarter, there's AI, so that gap is getting tighter, but then they'll find other ways to, to make that money. And you, you already alluded to your book when you talked about some of these things. The biggest mistakes people are making with travel as prices are going up holistically, what are some of the biggest you're seeing?

[B]

I think where you book your travel has huge impacts these days. For one example, you know, and, and people are just so price focused, so they'll buy the cheapest flight they see, right? Or they'll go and just think, well, I always go to the Delta website and, and that's probably the cheapest, right? At most airlines are the same, but. And cheap is expensive. By booking, like you might save $20 on basic economy, but then you're paying $50 for the bag you thought that you'd be able to bring on board. So I think consumers are looking way too myopically. They're booking via the wrong sites. You know, I really talk a lot in the book. So many people still book through online travel agencies and they can make sense if you're saving a ton of money. But in airfare, it's pretty much all the same price. The airlines nowadays, if your flight gets canceled or delayed, if you book with the airline, they'll put you on the next one. So you might be out on the next flight one hour later. If you book through a lot of online travel agencies, you have to call that online travel agency, sit on hold for an hour and you're panicking as that flight is now full and you're missing flights. So people by and people just don't know the difference. They'll Google, you know, cheap flights to Atlanta. They'll land on some random airline. They're, they're booking with spirit. They're having to pay for things where if they just would have spent $30 more on Southwest, they would have two free checked bags, free changes, much more. So I think where people are just looking at the cheapest price and they're missing the boat. You know, so many times people will message me, oh, I'm going on a cruise. I booked the cheapest flight. You've got 59 minutes at Atlanta Hartsfield to connect. And people still do this all the time. And what's going to happen? You're going to miss your flight. Even if you're on time, the gate will be delayed, the agent won't open the door, and you're sprinting across one of the world's largest airports. And then guess what? When you miss your cruise, you're sobbing your whole family trip. And I hate to see that people are still making so many mistakes there. So I talk about it in the book. It's like build in longer connections. The airlines will sell a 60 minute connection, which is in my opinion just gnarly. You know, it's, and it's, it's setting people up for, for failure. So I think the system, our whole travel system is, you know, the numbers are going up and up, everyone's traveling. There's a lot of pressure on the system, air traffic controllers, there's not enough of pilot shortages, aircraft shortage. And back to your point on like most businesses grow through capacity. You like, you know, open up new branches of a restaurant chain. You, airlines can't grow their capacity because they're just not enough new planes to make them more efficient. There's huge, you know, Airbus and Boeing especially is having so airlines are stuck in the spot where they've got to just squeeze more money out of what the existing real estate, which is why all these fees keep coming up. And, and that's why for consumers like you have to know how to play the game.

[A]

I have so many questions and different directions I want to go just in that monologue, but even the what you just ended with, it's interesting. I'm an investor in Delta. I'll talk to you a little about my Delta status and the points. I don't think you're going to be proud of me. We're going to talk about that. I'm going to tell you everything I got and you're going to assess the situation. But Delta's profitability and their stock keeps going up and I always thought some of the issue was the capacity. But like you said, they are finding so many ways to make profit. One of them is a credit card. We'll get into that. But before we do, you touched on an area that no one talks about now, but I've always been curious and it's the idea of working through a travel agency. And so it's so top of mind because my parents just booked a cruise through a travel agent and the travel agent charged them a fee of some sort to do it. And I said to them, I go, listen, I don't know this industry well, but that doesn't seem like the norm because I know on the back end they're getting material commission for actually placing you. They then sent an invoice to my parents. The invoice was done the wrong way and it actually showed. It was, I think a $2,500 commission that they were getting paid for placing. And so talk to me just about a little bit about travel agents. How are making their money and if someone is listening to this and they do decide to use a travel agent, what are some recommendations and things to think through?

[B]

I talked about that in the book because travel advisors is what they're called now. Luxury travel advisors can be worth their weight in gold because when things go wrong, airlines do not care about you. Even if you have top tier elite status, you might get re accommodated. What people don't realize if you're flying to Tanzania on that lifelong vacation, you know the airline loses your bags and you're like stuck in Germany. When you have a travel agent, they can actually often reticket you right away. You don't even have to wait in line at the airline desk begging to get on the next flight. You can call. Your top notch travel agents have the full ability as like an airline agent themselves. So having that ability to fix problems on these mega trips is amazing. Also travel advisors, generally they're getting commission on hotels. That's hotels and cruises are where they're making the most money. A cruise travel advisor should not be charging a hefty fee for cruises. In the book I talk about, CruiseCompete.com actually allows you to put in the cruise you want to go to and then allow different advisors to compete and they'll actually cruise.com so for most average cruises, if you want a travel agent to book airfare and you're flying coach, most will not do it for free because they're not making any money on sure. But if you're booking business class flights, fancy hotels, cruises, most luxury travel advisors would be happy to have your business and and most of the time. And this is back to my point of people making the mistake. I know so many people. I'm going on my honeymoon out of four seasons. I'm going to go to four seasons.com here's my rate book. No, don't do that. Do not do that because you'll get the same rate going through a luxury travel advisor. And when you go to a really good travel advisor, they have such power in the industry and if they have a relationship with the Four Seasons Maui, you're going to pay the same rate, maybe less. They may even have specials. And that luxury travel advisor is going to get you upgraded because they're going to email the GM and as a big time travel advisor in the industry, that GM wants to make sure all their clients are taken Care of. We've got to take care of these people's clients so that you're. The chances of you getting an upgrade, you're going to get free breakfast, potentially thousands more in perks by booking through an advisor at the same exact price.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So on the luxury end, travel advisors shouldn't be charging you a huge fee. Some will if you got a really complicated itinerary that takes them a lot of time. Some do have fees, but they should be very upfront about it. But for the most part, if you're booking, you know, an expensive trip, they get paid based on the commission.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they want to make sure that you're happy. So when things go wrong, you got your credit card company, which we'll get into. You know, the credit card can help reimburse your travel advisor. Your last line of defense usually is the. The airline or hotel itself. You want to have extra protection by booking via the right channel.

[A]

Okay. Is there do you have, like, one rule of thumb with working with a travel. What'd you call it if they're not travel advisor? Is there like a dollar amount? Like, if you. If your trip is over 5,000 or 10,000, should you then consider travel advisor? Like, when do you say it makes sense or it doesn't make sense?

[B]

Yeah. So I think for complicated trips and travel advisors, it's more than just booking really good travel advisors. So you want to go on African safari.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Roar Africa is the top luxury travel advisor group in Africa. Americans who go on safari in Africa. You book the Roar because all of their agents have been to most of these lodges. And every African safari is very different for wildlife, for amenities. So choosing the right African safari is critical. And booking it online, it's dizzying. You're going to look at websites like, what's the actual difference? Especially if you've never been on safari, it is almost impossible to figure out what the best safari for you is. There's no AI today that that'll compare all these small lodges and big ones. So using travel advisors who are experts in their fields and have been to these places makes all the difference. So Virtuoso is the largest network of luxury travel advisors. Generally, you want to use a virtuoso agent.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And one who books a lot of travel. Use a successful travel advisor because they have the connections and they will call the hotel and say, this is a special trip. Make sure you take care of these clients. And if your room's not right or whatever and the hotel's giving you a hard time, if you didn't book through an advisor. You're at the hotel. You know that front desk agent may be having a bad day. If you're not happy with your room, you call your advisor and say, hey, look, this hotel didn't take care of me, and you've gotten. They will rain down on the hotel. So that's like travel these days is just knowing. But if you book directly on that hotel's website, you don't have that extra course of action.

[A]

I like it. We'll get into credit cards, we'll get into hotels. These are all things that are so near and dear to my heart as I constantly travel. So if you're listening for those tips, they are going to come. Let's stick on flights for a second. You kind of mentioned going to the right websites. What are the right websites to buy a flight if you're looking to get the best bang for your buck?

[B]

Yeah. Well, you don't buy through Google Flights. But anyone, if you want to be smart about how you book flights, you need to learn how to use Google Flights. So google.com flights, it's a free tool and it pulls in most airlines. So Google Flights is a great tool because it'll also give you data. Another question people always ask is, oh, I got a flight to Barbados for 500. Is that good? I'm like, I don't know. I don't fly that route a lot. But Google Flights will actually tell you the historical price and whether that price you're seeing is low, medium, or high. And so do you have to search.

[A]

For that or will it show it?

[B]

You can search for that. So whatever your individual route is, it'll give you a bar. Like, this is a good price.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

These days, if you're getting. If it says this is low or like average, that's. That's what it is. For that route. They, you know, they're able to assess billions of data sets to come up with that recommendation. But here's where it gets interesting. You save the most money on flights by being flexible. And Google Flights has this tab called Explore. And this is where it's freezing cold in New York City today. I know a lot of people are like, I just need to get somewhere warm. Like, I have this weekend. I can take off. What is the cheapest place I can go? And instead of having to search one by one every Caribbean island or Mexico, Google Flights will let you put in New York City to Caribbean, and it'll show you a map of every single Caribbean island. And you can filter nonstop you can put business class, and it'll show you where all the deals are. Or you can just say, look, I want to get away a weekend in February. And it'll, it'll rank for you based on destination. So I think when buying flights, too many people will just say, okay, let me check Puerto Rico.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you're like, checking one data point. But, like, if you switch your flight by one day, you could save, you know, hundreds or thousands of dollars sometimes. So figuring out how to use Google flights, that's the tool most travel experts, you know. And you're at an airport, your flight's canceled, you've got to get to la. You go up to an agent, they're only looking at that airline. Sorry, we don't, we don't have flights till tomorrow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Most people would sit there and be like, oh, that sucks. But experts. And what I teach in the book is no pull in all different other airlines. Be your own advocate. And this is why having points is so important. Whenever the airline. I'm stranded by an airline, I immediately get into action. I'll burn frequent flyer miles on another airline two gates down, and then I'll figure out my refund later. But you have to get into this, like, aggressive mentality in travel. And I see too many people in airports. And there is a mentality, once you're in the airport, whatever the agent tells you, when you don't have the information, you kind of assume that that's the truth. But there's so many tools out there that'll tell you how to get to where you want to go. And then later you can get, you'll get the refund from the airline. Now, they canceled or delayed your flight. That's a new rule. So I teach people what are the rules? And also, just like knowing when you're asking for a favor, so many people will scream at the airline agent, you guys always delay my flight. I'm never flying JetBlue again. They don't care. Right. Like in that agent, if you're asking for a favor, you need to use much more different language. And I always. People watch at the gate. So, like, I wanted to teach people in this book, unfortunately, in the US we don't have consumer protections in airlines. You know, the airlines are terrible.

[A]

It's terrible.

[B]

So knowing that, you know, a, we have to have our lawmakers change that. So that's something we should push on them.

[A]

Get to the White House. Let's get this going.

[B]

But I teach people being nice and going up and saying, hey, look Your partner airline has one open seat available and in coach. I just checked. Can you switch me to this airline? I need to get home to my kids tonight. That's going to have a 10x more chance of you getting on that flight. When you show up, you know the data, you know what's available, so they don't even have to do the searching for you and say, hey, you know, then I teach the language of like, there's one Y seat available, which is like the insider word for coach seat. It's showing Y1 on this partner flight. Can you transfer my ticket over? And you ask with a smile. And they can do it with the push of a button, but they're not going to go out on a limb for you if you're screaming at them.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

And that's what I'm really excited for people to start understanding the system can suck, but you, you can figure out how to win.

[A]

And they do have more power than you expect. And I know this because a close friend of mine, he had to get back. His flights were delayed and canceled. And there's one flight left for him to get back to get literally his sperm.

[B]

I don't know, the story just took a turn, like a while.

[A]

No, he had to get like, there was a certain time and day and there was like one or two eggs left with his wife, and he had to get like, he had to go through the process of providing his sperm that morning. And it was that person that got him on that flight. And it was that process that day that led to their now son. And, like, they made it work. So, yeah, that's a good turn. But, like, it's wild to see the power that they do have and the impact.

[B]

But listen, people. So they have that power. But also these frontline agents are now being monitored. Now, technology monitors when they make exceptions.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So what I want people to know is when they go out and make an exception for you, they may have to go to their boss and explain it. They might get dinged. They're taking a risk. So when you're asking for favor and you're saying, hey, use a little bit of that capital you might have.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To get me home. I really appreciate you. You're going to change my life. That's how you ask for it. If you scream at someone and say, I'm never going to fly this airline again, they're not going to go out and use that little piece of capital that they could get in trouble by making too many exceptions. You know, the airlines, they're Trying once again trying to squeeze value out of everyone. They're trying to make people pay an airline waves of fee for you when they probably should have charged you one if you're screaming at them. I wouldn't do it.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Would you go out on a limb and you get in trouble for someone who's rude to you?

[A]

No, of course not.

[B]

Of course not. It's human nature.

[A]

Like, makes perfect sense. Makes perfect sense.

[B]

All right.

[A]

We also talked about like getting your information from Google flights. Those were great tips. Like where you can go where you can look different price points, low, medium, high. Once you have all that information and you've decided, okay, this is where I'm going to go, this is how I'm going to do it. Is Google Flights the, like, what is the actual best place to book direct.

[B]

With the airline in general? Pretty much. So once Google flights will tell you. Okay, you know, United Airlines has the cheapest flight by 200. So you go to united.com book directly because that, the airlines love it when you book direct. So now even if there's like a 20 minute delay on your flight, say you book like a connecting flight to save money, which often happens if your flights are delayed United, especially if you have elite status, but even if you book with them directly in their app, they'll say, hey, Jason, like your flight's delayed today. Do you want to switch? And they'll let you go non stop. That, that can happen if you book through an online travel agency, call your travel agency to rebook. And I just hear so many horrors. And often they're, you know, with weather, wildfires, et cetera. Airlines will issue what's called weather waivers, allowing you to change your flight for free. They're waving. But when you book via an online travel agency, I know people have been in this situation recently, the travel agency won't let you switch even though the airline is now having these really, really flexible rules.

[A]

Interesting. So, so like for an example though, that's like if, let's just use Delta. So if you book direct with Delta or you work to book directly with Priceline, it will be more advantageous for probably like consumer protection, consumer flexibility to go through Delta. You did say, though the airlines like it better when you book through them directly. Is that because they're saving on.

[B]

Yes. So they don't have to pay the travel agent an extra fee. Once airlines, just from a business perspective, they fired their former chief commercial officer because he got too greedy and he was saying any corporation that doesn't book direct, which most Big companies, you have to book their travel agency. American got so greedy and they, they tried to not pay any travel advisors or companies, and it destroyed their business because enough people went to competitors and said so. American actually just this week announced their results. They're still reeling from this. They were too bold, they got too greedy, and they're trying to cut out all the middlemen. But the reality is luxury travelers, corporate travel, you need to book through a travel agency. They're part of the ecosystem. American was trying to make this bold move, like, well, the others will follow us. The others not only didn't follow them, but Delta said, we're going to take your flyers. We're going to take extra good care. We're going to give elite status. Come with Delta. We care about corporate travelers. It was one of the biggest mistakes I've seen made in aviation industry this decade.

[A]

What about Skip lag? So skiplag.com for anyone that doesn't know, it's a site that you can get if you have, I think it's like a direct flight or you're not checking a bag. It'll use all different airlines. So I could fly, you know, JetBlue to New York City and then Southwest to London. Like, what's your thoughts on Skip lagged dot com?

[B]

Yeah. And so, yes, to your point. So say airline pricing makes no sense whatsoever. I guess it makes sense based on your. Your origin and destination. So say you want to fly Charleston to New York, it might be 500 bucks, right. But you could fly Charleston to Buffalo, which there's a lot of, like, you know, smaller carriers with the connection in New York, and it's $200. So what skip Lag allows you to do is buy that flight that goes Charleston, LaGuardia, Buffalo. But get off the plane in, in LaGuardia and you could save 300 bucks.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And just stay in Charleston to LaGuardia, because there's so many business travelers and it's just a higher route. But the Charleston, Buffalo route's way cheaper. So what many people do is drop the last leg. So I'll get off the plane in laguardia. I'm not connecting to Buffalo. Now. You can. What is my thoughts on this? So it's not illegal. There's nothing illegal about it. The airlines hate it. And the airlines say, well, that's against the rules. If you do it once or twice or three times. Generally that, you know, the airlines only really go after people who do this a lot.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And you also have to make sure not to check a bag. Because they will check that bag through Buff to Buffalo, and people have made the mistake. Oh, wait, no, I'm getting off. Pull my bag. They're not pulling your bag off, you know, especially if you're doing something that hurts the airline. So the airlines. You're not going to go to jail for this. But it is possible you could get banned from an airline, take closure your frequent flyer mile accounts. There are risks involved. So I would say casually skip lagging, probably. Okay, okay. But you do it a lot. You. There are risks involved and people should know.

[A]

All right, listeners, you're getting a lot of trading secrets here. You want to save a buck with a little risk? Go to skiplag.com. it seems like a good little trading secret. Now, you talked a little bit about consumer protection, one I recently found out about. I'm a Delta guy, so I love flying Delta. In a rare set of circumstances, I was seeing a friend in Long island and there was only a direct flight out of Islip and ended up taking Frontier. That is the first time I'll take Frontier. That is the last time I will take Frontier. I booked a flight, I upgraded to what their version of first class is, and I had my ticket and I got to the airport and they told me that they didn't have a seat for me. Y. I had my t. I upgraded, paid that. What do you mean you don't have a seat? I paid for a seat assignment. What do you. I literally paid more money for a seat. They didn't have a seat for me. So what they had told me, though, is that apparently this is a typical thing that happens with Frontier and there's consumer protection that you will get three times what you paid for the actual flight back in the form of a check. And so I'm wondering, do you, like, what are some of these consumer protections, even though you said there aren't many.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What are some that we should know as we're flying when things happen?

[B]

I don't know who told you that. Was it an airline agent that.

[A]

Yeah, it was an airline agent.

[B]

I think he was lying to you. Yes. To get you out of his hair. Because.

[A]

Because I was in his hair. I was.

[B]

Yeah. The Department of Transportation states if an airline delays a flight three hours or more or cancels it for any reason, you're owed a refund.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

There is no compensation beyond that that is legally required.

[A]

So.

[B]

And what they say is if you paid for an advanced seat assignment or if you paid for a check bag and they lost your bag, you don't have to pay the check bag fee, so. And Frontier, to the best of my knowledge, does not have a customer service policy that would, you know, give you 3x. The only thing what I'm, what what could be is involuntary denied boarding. So if you did have a seat on the plane, a confirmed ticket and they. The flight still went out without you, you can get voluntary. Oh, so you didn't even get on the plane at all?

[A]

No, they didn't let me on the plane because they said all the seats were full.

[B]

Yeah. So I went to boarding. You can submit involuntary denied boarding compensation. The airline should give it to you directly. If the airline doesn't pay you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Then you just file a complaint with the DOT and that'll force the airline to respond.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So. Yes. In that case, I'm sorry, I thought you just didn't get your front, your, your big seat in the front.

[A]

No, I just didn't get ac. I didn't even get down.

[B]

Yeah. So that's called IDB compensation. In that case, you are owed. I don't know if it's 3x. There's like a sliding scale of compensation for that. But.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And what I'll say the other is denied boarding compensation. This is when you're at the gate and the airlines ask for volunteers.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

If you are flexible and can take the next flight, there's no set amount that they have to pay you. Generally it's like $200, you know, or 400 if it's like a four hour delay. What I always recommend to people, when you take that and you're fine taking that next flight or even in Europe if they're oversold, you can get $800. 1200. Wow. Always ask to be re accommodated on that. Next in first class. Back to like this is the airline asking you for a favor. So this is when you can have negotiating power. So instead of just taking the voucher and saying, yeah, I got my 400 bucks. Always, it never hurts to ask. Always say to the agent, hey, I'll do this for you, because you're doing them a favor.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They don't want to get into a situation where they're pulling people off like they did with you, because then they have to pay three act. And so, yeah, always say, well, I'll do it. And then my final negotiation point is, can you put me in first class? Because once again, click of a button, they can do it. And then, and that's fully justified. You know, if they, if they put you, if they bumped you to another flight, they can put you in first class. And often you'll earn tons of frequent flyer miles because it's a paid first class.

[A]

That's brilliant right there. So if you take volunteer money, make sure you negotiate first class and then get the rewards for it. But business perspective, I always say to myself, sometimes I Hear him go 900,000, 1100. How are they justifying 1100 dollars? Like why are they paying 1100 dollars for someone to give up their seat?

[B]

So I talk about this in the book because it all stems from the Dr. Dow incident on United. So that was the incident, I think it was 20 airlines, they had to kick people off the plane because they needed pilots to get to Louisville, Kentucky. And back then they didn't really have, you know, they didn't really have good compensation where most people on the plane, no, I don't want to take 200 bucks. But they basically just started kicking people off the plane. And that's when the Dr. Dow refused to get off the plane. That's when the airport fake cops beat the crap out of them taking them off the plane. And that went so viral, United settled a multi million dollar suit. The entire industry said from that point on, okay, let's just bump up the compensation because it's cheaper for us to give a thousand bucks than to deal with social media craziness, etc, the brand risk, reputation. You know, these airline vouchers aren't costing the airline that much money. You have to use it within a certain time on that airline. I'm sure there's huge breakage. So, so yeah, when they really need volunteers, they, they're now authorized to go up to $10,000. I know people who have gotten 10,000 when on international flights especially.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And one other point, I want people to know when flying to Europe, there's what's called EU261 compensation, meaning if you're leaving Europe on any carrier, including like United, American, Delta, and the flight's delayed or canceled, you are owed cash compensation from the airline.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Most airlines don't tell you this. And when flying to Europe, if you have the choice to fly Lufthansa or United, always choose Lufthansa. Generally they're better in flight product as well. And when you fly in an EU carrier leaving the US to Europe, you have those same protections.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

If you're flying a US carrier to Europe, you don't get the guaranteed compensation for delays or cancellations.

[A]

Sounds like our protections here in the United States are bullshit, but I like it. That's a good, Another good Tip there. Take, take any type of EU flight as opposed to United States flight because you'll be protected even if you're coming back to the United States. All right, I could stay on this topic forever, but I do have to transition here in a second second. So I'm just gonna like rapid fire a bunch of like, kind of like what I feel like could be BS or just fictional trends that you hear out there. Right. So you tell me some of these that are true, some are false. I'll rattle off a few of them. But like you hear if you use a different VPN when booking on a website, you'll get a cheaper flight if you go incognito that there are certain days you can book. It seems like people have all these little, what they consider tricks and tips to actually getting the best deal on a flight. Are any of those valid?

[B]

Well, I used to always say this was a myth. This is conspiracy theorists. However, you know, Delta just came out. They're working with an Israeli AI startup that is doing predictive pricing based on your personal information.

[A]

Oh, I hate that.

[B]

So they publicly came out. I mean they didn't quite say it, but they said it that they're. Because once again back to this notion of they gotta squeeze revenue and they know that you probably have a lot more revenue to squeeze out of than you know, a once a year traveler who's just trying to go to Orlando. So I think that is happening. And also I talk about in the book flying, booking your flights from certain airports is cheaper and generally booking travel. So if you fly all the time to South Africa, you want to originate in Johannesburg. The flights, if you book Joburg, newark, joburg, it's 4,000 but the same if you book book Newark to Johannesburg to Newark. If you begin and end in Newark, you pay two to three times as.

[A]

Much because they're pricing it on the.

[B]

The economics are more wealthy than South Africans. So and I talk about it, my friends in Dubai do really crazy things called positioning flights. So Sri Lanka is like three hour flight from Dubai. Flights from Sri Lanka in first class on Emirates, you can fly Sri Lanka, Dubai, Geneva round trip for $3,500. But Dubai to Geneva alone is 12 grand. So by taking an extra flight to Sri Lanka now not everyone's going to do this. The business travelers who their companies will pay the 12k. But really savvy frequent flyers who love to travel and on Emirates will take extra trips to save thousands of dollars. These are some of the more expert tips I give in the book. But I had to kind of put in, I just want people to think differently. You're not, not, you know, especially if you're dating someone abroad. It might make sense to start all your trips from abroad when possible because you can price them starting from a, a city that has lower pricing power than New York City, London, etc, where they basically fleece people knowing they have.

[A]

To pay it for for the sake of this example, let's just assume just for the sake and it means nothing but that Rome is one of these cities where you're going to get advantageous pricing because the economics are lower than the economy and the pay and all the things than New York City. Technically what I could do is opposed to booking a New York to Rome, Rome to New York flight. I could book one flight, New York to Rome and I could use like frequent flyer miles, get that for free and then I could book the rest of my Europe travel just as Rome is the starting destination. And in this example it would be significantly cheaper.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Okay, all right, that's a good takeaway.

[B]

And one other thing I want to, I talk about in the book. When using frequent flyer miles, you can often get extra flights for free because it's what called stopover. So when using your points, most people will say okay, I redeemed my points, New York to Paris, I'm also going to go to you know, Istanbul on this trip or whatever. Airlines like Air France will actually let you book that New York to Paris, you can stop for a week if you wanted to and then that Paris to Istanbul flight for free or like a very nominal amount more. So this is a more advanced topic for even if you think you know how to use your points, most people are leaving money on the table by not. We call these the routing rules where you can actually stretch the value add on extra flights for free.

[A]

How, how do you do it?

[B]

You just have to, a lot of times you just have to do multi city trip on the airline website. Okay, but most people are like, let me just get to Europe and then I'll buy like the cheap flights in between. But you don't have to buy those cheap flights. You can stop in Paris for five days and then book that Paris to, you know, south of Italy Palermo flight, you know, all for free.

[A]

People are like, how would I know? Like if someone's listening, you know by.

[B]

Reading the book and you know, okay, these are what the experts in the industry do. It's, they're called routing rules. And so anyone out there today, United has this thing called the excursionist Perk. So if you fly to Australia on United.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They'll actually let you book like Perth to Sydney. So say you want to go on a whole tour of Australia.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You can fly to Sydney and then book in an extra ticket to Perth and then fly home from Perth, all for the same amount of miles. Okay, this is what, this is what takes practice, but I want to let people know, like even if you think you're a points expert, Google, you know Air Canada, which is a transfer partner of Amex, Chase, Capital One and Citi. And another big way to win in points is not just using the Delta I know you love. Delta's a great airline, don't get me wrong. But their miles have been devalued. You know, you're spending 5, 600,000 miles to go to Europe. Europe. What real points experts are doing is you're accruing Amex points and then you're transferring to partners like Air Canada, Aeroplan, which, which still has 60,000 mile business class awards to Europe. Delta might charge you 250,000. So to win at the points game these days you have to think outside the box. The US programs just keep raising the rates, crazy amounts. Okay, once again back to the whole theme of they're squeezing out money wherever they can to get to hit Wall street profits.

[A]

Okay, hold the points. I have a million questions on the points. We're coming to that in two seconds. The last question I got before we go to points because it made some long points, but I love it. You're just every single, every single answer you get. Like I need a notepad to listen to this back and I think the listeners will too. But last thing I got on flights, you go to booking, I take your advice, I go to Google flights. Maybe I use skip flag and then I book the flight. And every single time on Delta, the big question, do I get insurance? I always proudly smack that button and hit no. Tell people why they shouldn't get insurance through the airlines direct.

[B]

I'm not against travel insurance. I think travel insurance can make a lot of sense. But never book it directly through the airline hotel. So often that's not even travel insurance. It's called travel protection and it is crappy policy you're paying a lot of money for. If you and in general the airlines nowadays are a positive post pandemic rule that came out. You can change flights and get get a voucher for on most fares, even frequent flyer miles. When you use points for a trip, most people don't realize you can cancel that for free up until departure.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Taking that. And I wanted to add this expert tip to people. So that friend of yours who needed to get home for that life changing what I do in those situations where I got a big gig, I gotta get here. I'm leaving late in the day. I'm a little nervous because like if that flight gets canceled, I could be out a lot of money. I almost always will book a second flight flight later on a other carrier using my miles as my backup insurance plan. If my flight takes off as planned, I just cancel the other one. I get no fees. All the US programs will let you cancel free of charge.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So think about it. As long as you remember to always cancel your backup plan. That's the best peace of mind. Because say your flight gets canceled, everyone else is in chaos, probably trying to buy seats on the flight that you already had your ticket to.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And if you didn't need that ticket, you cancel before departure, you get all your miles back, zero paid. So it's like having a backup plan. That's the type of insurance I buy for domestic flights.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I don't buy, I use. So in travel insurance for, for big ticket items. Cruises.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you're going to Cabo and you need to get a villa that's like prepaid 20 grand with your friends you're interviewing for other jobs and you're like oh, there's a chance I might get a new job.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

My family member is sick. They're you like when you know that there are some things going on in your life life and you're going to have non refundable. That's when you get travel insurance.

[A]

So that's my parents right now they're doing the riverboat cruise. I think it's like in general say sorry mom and dad spilling your beans around like 20 grand or something. And, and my mom I know right now is saying like hey, should I get a credit card with the best insurance? Or like where do I go to find the best insurance?

[B]

Insuremytrip.com Hands down I have no affiliation with them. But it's a marketplace. So ensure my trip marketplace is the best ways to get people to compete for you. Like CruiseCompete.com insure my trip.com and you might be shocked that 20,000, they can get like $50,000 worth of coverage might be 400 bucks.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And you know when you're spending 20k to just buy the 400 policy that covers you for a lot of these will even cover you for pre existing conditions. If you've got an ailment that might flare up, you got a sick family member, a kid who might, you know, give birth early like you might when there's reasons brewing. And another reason inside of just like, like protecting the value of the trip if you have to cancel is even if you're on the trip, travel insurance will usually cover if you get sick. Most people don't realize our US health insurance, I mean it barely covers us here, let alone abroad. You need to get medevact. Some credit cards do have good evacuation coverage, but having a travel insurance policy for these far flung trips, you, you don't want to ever have to use it. But God forbid something happens, especially to parents, I highly Recommend it's like 5% of the cost of the trip or less. Okay, it's nothing when you tack it on and it gives you that peace of mind. But insure my trip's incredible because it'll give you the best policies and then I, you just have to expand. It'll give you the price on each and then what it covers. Shockingly, the cheapest policies often have better coverage than the most expensive. So price does not always equate. Let me just get the most expensive. It makes no sense. But that's the insurance world, right? You may actually be able to go with a, a policy that's the cheapest. It actually has like double the coverage on, on all the things that matter.

[A]

I love it every time you talk. We got big takeaways here. So ensuremytrip do. If it's insurance directly through an airline, do not do it. Consider buying a backup with points because all us.

[B]

And most importantly, using the right credit card, use a credit card with travel protection. So you know your Chase Sapphire, your Capital One ventures, they have built in insurance coverage. It's not as good as paid travel insurance, but it's still pretty good. If you know, you show up and your vacation rental is horrible. It's not what you looked, it's dirty. You know, you might be lucky to get a refund from Airbnb, but they're not really covering the gap of like getting a last minute rental. A lot of credit card companies will step in, fully refund you and may even cover the gap of having to book a last minute place, that is. But, but in general these days, travel insurance, okay, it's good to have for big trips.

[A]

That's a good transition to credit cards. So let's talk credit cards ever. It's a hot topic. Everyone wants to know about your take on credit cards. I will even touch on insurances and other benefits. But one thing that I actually heard you say in the podcast is that 1% of the US GDP is spent on Delta logo credit cards and that credit cards are becoming a larger business than the actual airlines. Are you still seeing that trend and do you still see credit cards and these frequent flyer programs becoming the main focus of all spending?

[B]

Yeah, I open my book book saying that we're living in the platinum age of travel and I am an optimist in general. While all these negative things might be happening in the industry, travel today is as safe as it's ever been by huge, huge margins. Even though social media make it make it seem like aviation's really dangerous, we are so fortunate and travel still, relatively speaking to the golden age is cheaper. And if you don't need to be super rich to travel like a millionaire, I mean the points game I what I love about the points guys, we now they're college kids studying abroad, flying business class, using points because they know how to leverage their good credit. You don't need to have huge income to get a top tier credit card. And that's I love, I dive into credit because credit, you know, there's over a trillion dollars in credit card debt in America, which is a huge issue. But to play the points game, it's all about being responsible with your credit, treating your credit score like an asset, protecting it. And I do know from doing this now for 15 years when you get into the points game, you become obsessed about your credit, making short payments and that's how your score goes up. So credit card, that's how you win at the game today if you're not playing your cards right, you are losing at at travel because not only can you get thousands of dollars a year in sign up bonuses from these cards, so the points are really valuable, but the perks are potentially even more valuable. So those flight protections when the airline cancels your flight and you need to spend the night at the at the airport, if you use the right credit card, you're getting 500 or a thousand dollars per person on your ticket reimbursed. So you're booking a nice suite at the Westin and know that your credit card is going to refund you versus waiting two hours in line begging for Motel 6 from a crabby airline agent who like might throw a voucher at you. That's the difference of and many of those people in that line have coverage on their credit cards. They just don't know about about right. So points are really Valuable and perks as well. Now back to your point about like the Delta Co brands. Another key message I want people to know though is that spending on an airline credit card, you're earning just one airline mile. The number one type of credit card I recommend and any points expert worth their weight in, in, in points, you have to get a transferable points credit card. So this is, this is the, the, the where the credit card industry has gone because Delta is an amazing airline, but they really have been devaluing their points. You know, it's, it could be a million points to go to Europe in business class, you want to get a credit card Amex Platinum Gold, Capital One Venture X Chase Sapphires Builts of the World because you earn points in the credit card currency that allows you to transfer to tons of different partners. So you're diversifying your points so that, hey, oh, this summer I want to go to Mykonos. I really want to fly that Newark to Athens flight on Emirates. If you have a, you know, a United card, you and you only have United miles, you cannot fly Emirates. You can't then trans. So many people will come to me like, well, I've got 2 million United miles. Let's fly Emirates. Like, how do I do it? You can't. You have accrued a very like, relatively insignificant currency. You should have used a Chase card like a Chase Sapphire, which gives you triple points on travel and dining of which we. And then you could transfer to United one to one instantly or you could transfer instantly to Emirates or Air France or airplane. If you wanted to fly Lufthansa. You get so much more value by having credit card points than you do with airline miles themselves.

[A]

One thing I've heard about transferring points is if you do have airline miles yourself, you can, some places will transfer and they'll do a multiplier. Or if you have American Express points, they'll do a multiplier. Talk to me about the people listening right now that are sitting on a bunch of points and they want to take advantage of these multipliers. How do they work?

[B]

Yeah, so it's exciting because if you have points in Amex, Chase built every month, they usually come out with transfer bonuses and you'll never know what they're going to be. But you could get up to 40% more points by transferring to Virgin Atlantic, for example. So and Virgin Atlantic, actually they, they were running promotions this year. It was like 30,000 points to fly business class on Virgin, which is fabulous. It's like Virgin's new business class sliding doors, great vibe, 30,000 points. But then they also had like a 30 or 40% transfer bonus. It was like 20, let's just say it was 25,000 chase points to fly business class. Like 200 bucks in fees for like a $4,000 business class flight. 225,000 credit card points. And when you redeem for gift cards, it's 250 bucks or less. So I say to people this is why the transferring game, it sounds so crazy and hard, but this is when you can get a $4,000 item or would you rather have a 250? Of course you want this shiny and that's like why people are obsessed with points. In the old days you had to just know this knowledge. But now there are all these tools that'll do it for you and tell you which transfer partner. So point Me is now like the Google flights for paid flights. Point Me is the Google flights for award flights. So it'll if you have Amex points and Chase and Capital One, they all transfer to different partners. It can be, I'm the expert and I get confused. Yeah, I go to Point Me and if you have Amex, you go to Point Me. Amex sign in and it'll tell you instead of spend, you know on a thousand dollar flight, Amex Travel is going to charge you 100,000 points.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But that same thousand dollar flight might be available for 20,000 Aeroplan points. So point Me checks the availability on all the transfer partners and it'll tell you don't spend the hundred thousand. Spend 20 by transferring to this partner does all the heavy lifting for you guys.

[A]

All these sites we will put in the show notes. The last thing I got for you, Brian, before we wrap because I know we took, we have you along here. I'm going to tell you right now, I'm a diamond status at Delta. I got it up right now. I'm a saver. That's why I tell my people on the podcast to do save your money, invest your money. The hoarding I think might be hurting me though. I got one 1.156 million miles here, right there on Delta right now. I just don't spend them. What's the number one thing I should do with these things as we wrap? What do I do?

[B]

Spend your Delta. Spend all your miles. I mean, so there's a fine balance between just don't just blow them on any flight. So when you're redeeming your Delta miles in general, Delta miles are worth a little over like a cent a piece. So if you were to redeem Delta miles for upgrades or to redeem flights for friends, those million miles will be worth $10,000 in flights. Now Delta miles several years ago were probably worth one and a half cents. So they're slowly devaluing. So the longer you hold on to those points, I don't know, next year they might be worth less than 10,000 if Delta keeps. Because what they're doing is Delta once again back to the theme of squeezing value out of thin air. Delta's saying, well, today we allow people to redeem for 1.1 cents. Next year it might only be one. And that's sort of what they've been doing by just increasing the amount of miles. Miles. So use your points, simply put. And also I would say you have enough Delta miles. Instead of spending just on Delta credit cards now you might need to spend on the Delta cards to keep your elite status. That's how the airlines are keeps. That's why so many people spend on the Delta cards. Your opportunity cost. So I would say to everyone is how much is this elite status? How much value is this really bringing me? Because my hunch is if you used cards, cap one venture that's 2x on everything, the Amex Gold, which is 4x dining and groceries, you could still transfer those points to Delta. But no one with points with Amex, very few people with Amex points should be transferring to Delta. You're, you're getting more value by being more loyal to your credit card that allows you to transfer. That's like where the value lies.

[A]

I like it. Those are huge, huge things that I'm going to be doing. We got to get your trading secret, Brian. Everyone that's listening right now, all of this stuff will be all the, the websites, all the tips, we will outline them in the show notes. We'll also recap them. So you can get all this because it's just like so much and that and we are giving five of your books away. Can you give us your trading secret and can it be. I'm going to ask specifically if you have something to add to it.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But can it be something also tied to the best strategy for hotel booking? Because we didn't get to hotels. So maybe a trading secret if you want to give one yourself too. But like specific to hotel strategy, best places to book, things to think about.

[B]

Yes. So hotels. I like staying at nice hotels, boutique hotels. So for me, I mean my tip is, okay, so for hotels, co brands make a lot of sense because you can get more value from the perks off the bat and what I mean by that is Marriott has a card that'll give you. I just redeemed it for free night at the W South beach. It was $1,200 and the card's 600 a year. So it is so easy if you stay even if you stay one or two nights a year at a Hyatt card, a H in or you know Marriott, the free nights that come along as long as you use that one single perk which are very easy, you're getting more than the value of the card. So to to save on hotels, get a co brand card for the chains that you like. And a lot of these big chains you don't have to stay at Marriott branded. You can stay to St. Regis.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

So having a card but the key, the secret is to not put all your spend on that card. It's okay to have credit cards that sit in your wallet or at home home that you're not spending on a lot spend on a more valuable card with transferable points, the sapphire venture built etc. But it's totally cool to have credit cards that are just for the perks, just for like the elite status that you get at the hotel might spend a little bit to get some more perks but you know these, these co brand, the Hiltons, the, even the airline cards have them for the free checked bags etc but be very smart about where you're putting your day to day spend. You want to put that on a card that gives you the most valuable points and gives you a bonus multiplier for the things you spend on whether it's rent, dining, groceries, streaming, etc.

[A]

I love it. It's a hell of a trading secret. For anyone that wants more, let me tell you what I'm going to do. I'm going to read his book how to Win at Travel and then in the recap I'm going to give you my trading secrets that we did not cover in this episode. But Brian, it is always a pleasure to talk to you. Congrats on all the success. This book is going to change lives and save people people tons and tons of dollars. So congratulations. Where can everyone get more of you when they want more of you and the book and everything else.

[B]

Yeah. So obviously the pointsguy.com is the website. We've got an amazing team of writers but me personally at Brian Kelly the book how to win a travel.com you can pre order it anywhere. I narrated the audiobook which is 11 and a half hours. If you're flying to Asia anytime soon. I've got you.

[A]

I love it. It's amazing. We're giving five copies away. Just give us your biggest takeaway from this episode in the reviews. And, Brian, thank you so much for being back on Trading Secrets.

[B]

Thanks for having me. Safe travels.