238. Dr. Josie Horchak: Stepping away from owning her own clinic to rewriting the pet-care model, everything YOU need to know about the veterinarian career path, advice for pet owners, and the $$$ behind it all!

Summary

Trading Secrets Podcast Episode 238 Summary

Title: Dr. Josie Horchak: Stepping Away from Owning Her Own Clinic to Rewriting the Pet-Care Model, Everything YOU Need to Know About the Veterinarian Career Path, Advice for Pet Owners, and the $$$ Behind It All!

Host: Audioboom Studios

Guest: Dr. Josie Horchak – Veterinarian Entrepreneur and Podcast Host

Release Date: June 9, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 238 of Trading Secrets, host Jason Tartick welcomes Dr. Josie Horchak, a seasoned veterinarian with over 15 years of experience, renowned for her exceptional patient care. Dr. Josie recently transitioned from owning multiple veterinary clinics to establishing Concierge Vet in Nashville, offering at-home wellness visits, telemedicine, and personalized services. Additionally, she hosts a successful podcast under the Premier Network alongside Bobby Bones since 2024.

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Educational Path and Financial Investment in Veterinary Medicine

Duration and Costs: Dr. Josie outlines the rigorous educational journey to become a veterinarian:

• Undergraduate Degree: 4 years (Pre-Med at the University of Dayton)
• Veterinary School: 4 years (Ohio State University)
• Optional Specialization: Additional 4-5 years for residencies (e.g., internal medicine, surgery, ophthalmology)

Total Time Commitment: Approximately 8 years without specialization.

Financial Investment:

• In-State Tuition: ~$25,000 per year at Purdue University (not her chosen path)
• Out-of-State Tuition: ~$84,000 per year at Ohio State University
• Total Debt: Most veterinarians graduate with around $250,000 in student debt. (Timestamp: [03:46])

Quote:

"Yes, a couple hundred grand. I got into multiple vet schools and I am from Indiana, so Purdue is my in-state school... the difference, if I had gone in-state, it would have been 25k a year. Going out of state to Ohio State was $84,000 a year." – Dr. Josie Horchak ([03:01])

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Career Trajectories and Salary Insights

Initial Salaries: Upon graduating vet school, veterinarians typically earn:

• Starting Salary: ~$85,000 (as of 2017)
• Current Associates: ~$110,000 - $125,000 in major urban areas ([05:00])

In contrast, Medical Doctors (MDs) often start around $500,000 annually, highlighting a significant disparity between the two professions.

Career Paths:

• Private Practice: Opportunity to become a partner by buying into the clinic.
• Corporate Veterinary Chains (e.g., Banfield, owned by Mars): Typically offer higher salaries due to greater resources, including signing bonuses and advanced technology.

Dr. Josie emphasizes the lack of a clear career ladder in veterinary medicine, noting that most veterinarians enter general practice without extensive business training.

Quote:

"Most veterinarians don't have a great business acumen... usually you get into a practice, you work as an associate. If it's privately owned, then you can have the option to potentially buy in and be a partner." – Dr. Josie Horchak ([06:35])

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Impact of Private Equity on Veterinary Practices

Market Growth:

• US Veterinary Services Market: Projected to reach $66 billion in 2024 with a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of 4.7%.
• Projected Expansion: Expected to grow to $70 billion by 2029.

Private Equity (PE) Influence:

• PE firms are acquiring veterinary clinics to optimize profitability, similar to trends observed in the dental industry.
• Consumer Impact:
  • Positive: Enhanced technology, better resources, and possibly lower costs through economies of scale.
  • Negative: Loss of personalized care, increased prices, and higher patient volumes leading to a depersonalized experience.

Quote:

"TEN THE numbers are showing that people are paying more. The industry is expanding and there's growth in it, which means eyeballs and money is spent in it." – Host Jason Tartick ([26:55])

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Mental Health Challenges in Veterinary Medicine

Veterinarians face higher rates of psychological distress and suicide compared to other medical fields. Dr. Josie discusses the contributing factors:

• Compassion Fatigue: Constant exposure to pet illnesses and emergencies.
• Financial Stress: High student debt coupled with relatively lower salaries.
• Emotional Burden: Difficult decisions, such as euthanizing animals when owners can't afford treatment.

Quote:

"The compassion fatigue that veterinarians face is real. Burnout is definitely happening within our field." – Dr. Josie Horchak ([16:11])

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Entrepreneurial Journey: From Associate Veterinarian to Concierge Vet

Transition to Entrepreneurship:

• Move to Nashville: In 2020, Dr. Josie moved from Chicago to Nashville due to her husband's job.
• Initial Venture: Partnered with a startup, owning 49% of two clinics, handling administrative tasks while focusing on veterinary care. She contributed nearly $500,000 in startup capital and eventually sold her shares to pursue a new venture.

Concierge Vet Model:

• Services Offered: At-home visits, 24/7 availability via personal cell, telemedicine consultations.
• Business Structure: Owns 100% of the concierge service, minimizing overhead by not maintaining a brick-and-mortar clinic.
• Pricing Structure:
  • Platinum Plan: $3,000 annually, covering vaccines, tests, medications, and unlimited consultations.
  • Pro-rated Plans: Reduced to $2,000 for clients outside the primary service area.

Quote:

"My clients are amazing. They really only call me if there's like a major issue. And so having that peace of mind is worth every penny for them." – Dr. Josie Horchak ([32:20])

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Advice for Pet Owners

1. Pet Insurance:

• Benefits: Essential for covering unexpected medical expenses, especially pre-existing conditions.
• Recommendation: Obtain pet insurance for puppies or kittens immediately to avoid exclusions later.

Quote:

"Whether or not you go to a PE backed clinic or a private practice, the cost of veterinary medicine is going up... the only way for us to kind of help consumers with this is to get pet insurance." – Dr. Josie Horchak ([38:38])

2. Vaccinations:

• Core Vaccines: Rabies, Distemper, Parvo, Bordetella (Kennel Cough), and Leptospirosis.
• Importance: Protects both pet and public health; critical even for indoor pets as rabies cases can arise unexpectedly.

Quote:

"There are four core vaccines... They are super duper important... There is no treatment [for rabies], so it's not just for their health, it's for our health, too." – Dr. Josie Horchak ([39:07])

3. Nutrition:

• Recommended Brands: Purina Pro Plan, Royal Canin, and Hill Science Diet for balanced nutrition.
• Avoid: Overly marketed boutique raw foods that may lack regulation and value.

Quote:

"Kibble gets a really bad rap, but if you choose the right brand, it's well-balanced and safe." – Dr. Josie Horchak ([41:22])

4. Dental Health:

• Frequency: Ideally daily brushing; at least weekly to bi-weekly for optimal health.
• Recommended Products: Stewarts Freeze Dried Beef Liver treats, Yomp silicone toys for gentle chewing.
• Costs: Professional cleanings ~$600-$800; tooth extractions ~$1,000-$1,200.

Quote:

"Pets whose owners brush their teeth have exponentially better oral health and can avoid extensive dental procedures." – Dr. Josie Horchak ([54:53])

5. General Care Tips:

• Bathing: Only when dirty; monthly or bi-monthly for dogs, using quality shampoos like Burt’s Bees.
• Avoid Hard Chews: Prevent dental fractures by avoiding hard bones and antlers.

Quote:

"Use a good dog shampoo, and you can't really overbathe them as long as you're using a quality product." – Dr. Josie Horchak ([53:49])

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End-of-Life Considerations

Deciding when to euthanize a pet is emotionally challenging. Dr. Josie advises:

• Consult Your Veterinarian: Seek objective guidance to assess quality of life.
• Use Quality of Life Scales: Tools to quantify and track your pet’s well-being.
• Support Systems: Lean on colleagues, family, and mental health resources.

Quote:

"It's really important to have somebody that can help guide you in that decision." – Dr. Josie Horchak ([51:54])

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Key Takeaways and Trading Secrets

1. Preventative Care: Regular check-ups, vaccinations, and dental care significantly enhance pets' quality and longevity.
2. Financial Planning: High educational costs and rising veterinary fees make pet insurance a crucial investment.
3. Choosing a Vet: Understand the implications of corporate ownership vs. private practice to ensure personalized care for your pet.
4. Entrepreneurial Opportunities: Innovative business models like concierge vet services can offer enhanced pet care and work-life balance for veterinarians.
5. Mental Health Awareness: The veterinary profession demands compassion and resilience, with significant mental health challenges that need addressing.

Final Trading Secret from Dr. Josie:

• Tax Benefits: In 2025, pet owners with certified service animals can deduct related expenses as medical costs, provided they meet specific criteria. Additionally, pets involved in business operations or charitable activities can offer further tax deductions. (Timestamp: [57:09])

Closing Remark: Dr. Josie shares a sobering reminder about the dangers of pets ingesting harmful substances like sourdough dough, emphasizing the critical importance of monitoring pets to prevent life-threatening situations.

Quote:

"You've got a whole dough sourdough loaf growing in their stomach... the yeast releases ethanol, which is alcohol. Alcohol gets absorbed into their bloodstream and they get like life-threatening drunk." – Dr. Josie Horchak ([57:12])

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Conclusion

Episode 238 of Trading Secrets offers an in-depth exploration of the veterinary profession, highlighting the financial, emotional, and entrepreneurial aspects intertwined with pet care. Dr. Josie Horchak provides invaluable insights for both aspiring veterinarians and pet owners, emphasizing the importance of preventive health, financial planning, and compassionate care.

For more detailed discussions and personal stories, listeners are encouraged to tune into Dr. Josie Horchak’s podcast available on various platforms.

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Useful Links:

• Dr. Josie Horchak’s Instagram: @DrJosieVet
• Concierge Vet Services: ConciergeDVM.com

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today we are joined by veterinarian entrepreneur and podcast host, Dr. Josie Horcheck. Dr. Josie has over 15 years of experience in the vet field and is a renowned vet for the exceptional care she provides her patients. Most recently, Dr. Josie stepped away from owning her own clinics to focus on providing quality concierge vet services to a smaller group of clients in Nashville with her company, the Concierge Vet. With this company, she offers at home wellness and sick visits, telemedicine, consults, and more, all at the comfort of the patient's home. In addition to her work as a vet, Dr. Joosse added podcast host to her resume when she started in the vet's office that was picked up by the Premier Network with Bobby Bones in 2024. We are going to learn all about the career of a veterinarian and discuss various tips and tricks to help you with your pets in the most cost effective ways. And I was actually just on her podcast, so you have to tune into that. Dr. Josie, thank you so much for being on Trading Secrets.

[B]

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

[A]

Yes, as a new pet owner obviously rescued my boy from wags and walks. I have, I don't even need these notes. I, I have a million questions, but I will do what we do best here. I'm gonna go in chronological order. Okay. I know right now in the vet space, my understanding is that the amount of vet students that are pursuing this career has decreased and there's a little bit of. Of shortage with vets in general. We'll, we'll get into that. Before we do, you were a bachelor's degree in pre med at University of Dayton, and then you went to vet medicine school at the Ohio State.

[B]

Go Buckeyes.

[A]

Go Buckeyes. Question for you there. How many years of school do you have to go to be a vet? And what did it cost you as far as total school? Dollar amounts.

[B]

Oh, gosh. Hitting me with the hard questions.

[A]

Right early.

[B]

Right, right. And early. I love it. So to be a veterinarian, you do four years of undergrad, and then you go on to do four years of your doctorate, which is your dvm. From there, you have the option to specialize. Okay, so just like human medicine, you can go on and do a residency, whether you want to be an internal medicine specialist, a surgeon, ophthalmologist. We have all of those specialties, just like humans do. And that's another roughly like four to five years. Okay, so very similar to human medicine. I did not pursue a residency. I went right out into general practice. Okay, so eight years in total with college and my doctorate.

[A]

Eight years. So I'm going to guess a couple hundred grand of student. Like, is that what it is?

[B]

Yeah, a couple hundred grand. I, I got into multiple vet schools and I am from Indiana, so Purdue is my in state school. I did not want to spend my 20s in West Lafayette, Indiana fair. And I may or may not have followed a boy.

[A]

It happens.

[B]

And so I decided to go to Ohio State for vet school. Columbus is an amazing city, by the way. Such a well kept secret. Yeah, maybe not so much a secret anymore. And the difference, if I had gone in state, it would have been 25k a year. Going out of state to Ohio State was $84,000 a year.

[A]

Damn, that's a big difference.

[B]

Huge difference. Yeah, that you really, you don't realize when you're 25 years old. And so my parents were wonderful. After, after your first year at Ohio State, they allow you to get residency and then you can pay in state tuition.

[A]

That's good.

[B]

And so my parents said, okay, if you really want to go there, like this is a huge financial decision that has consequences. We'll help you with the three years of in state school, but you have to pay the difference for that. $84,000 out of state. So gotcha.

[A]

All right, So I mean, 84,000, then it goes down, let's say to 30,000 ish. So you're talking. Yeah, around 200, 250K. That's just for the med school.

[B]

Yes, most veterinarians leave vet school with around $250,000 in debt.

[A]

Okay. When you get out of vet school, and I know you had a very entrepreneurial path, we'll talk about it. And for all my dog owners or pet owners out there, we will get into all the specifics, especially at the end of the episode. I'm going to read off questions you guys submitted so you're going to get all the insight. But I also want to dive into the track. When you finish vet school, what is your typical, like, what are like some of your peers and yourself, what do you make right out of school?

[B]

It varies widely. It's starting to go up more. But it's a fraction of doctors. Yes, a fraction.

[A]

I would think it's more.

[B]

No, we leave, we leave with the same amount of debt and we make a eighth of what they make.

[A]

Give me an example.

[B]

So for example, I graduated from vet school and I made $85,000. My first year out, most.

[A]

That is insane.

[B]

Most MDs are making 500k.

[A]

That is wild as just starting. And what year was that that you're making? 85,000.

[B]

I graduated in 2017.

[A]

So like we're not talking about like 10 or you know, that's obviously there's been inflation since then, but that's like 100 grand. Okay. And that is pretty standard. That amount.

[B]

That was standard for then. That was honestly pretty great for then.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so now if I have a new associate, I'm typically paying them. They're making six figures, but probably like 110, 115. And that's in a major urban area.

[A]

Fascinating. Okay, I have a million questions here. Here's where I'm going to start. So you graduate school, you make 85,000 a year. I had a preconceived knowledge that getting into vet school was actually harder than getting into med school. Is that correct?

[B]

That is true.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Well, a. There's only, at least when I applied, there was 26 vet schools in the whole country. So the, the ability to get into vet school, there's just such a dramatically fewer options. Med school, I mean, gosh, there's hundreds of hundreds of med schools and I think, you know, you have just as many applicants and so it's, it's really competitive.

[A]

Okay. There's just a lot of information and detail we have on this space. The US Vet services market is a substantial industry in the market, reaching 66 billion in 2024. And I'll talk about some of the compound annual growth we're seeing in the industry, which is what's attracting some of the big companies to want to get involved in vet services. Before we get into that, talk to me about your typical career track. You know, we've had big athletes on, we've had investment bankers, entrepreneurs, reality stars. We always talk about like what it looks like. So you get out of school and you're making the 85K. You obviously did things different. But what is like your standard blueprint career model for a vet? Do they work their way up to the practice and then become a partner, like almost an accountant, a lawyer? Like, what does that track look like if you're typical? That takes the typical blueprint within their career.

[B]

I think that's a really great question because there's not really a clear cut track for every single veterinarian. I would say the majority in a. Just to preface this, most veterinarians don't have a great business acumen. I'll just generalize that. And so really, the whole focus is let's go to vet school, let's get out, and let's be a veterinarian. And from there, I don't think there's a whole lot of forethought, okay, what's my life going to look like 20 years from now as far as how am I going to work my way up? Because there aren't a ton of, of options to do so. Usually you get into a practice, you work as an associate. If it's privately owned, then you can have the option to potentially buy in and be a partner.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Most practices these days are corporate, in which case you could probably work your way up to being a medical director.

[A]

Okay. So if you work your way up in that regards, there's obviously different tracks. There's, it seems like there's boutiques where you, again, you can work your way and buy in, but there's also some of these, like big corporates, like, like a, like a band field right. Where it's own petsmart.

[B]

To me, it feels like they're owned by Mars.

[A]

Mars.

[B]

Okay, yeah.

[A]

Which Mars is here, right in Nashville. So I don't know. I think about like pharmacists, like, they'll go to like Walgreens or, you know, they'll go to cvs. If you're in the vet space and you go to one of the big corporates, like a Banfield or they're everywhere. Do you get paid more or less?

[B]

Typically you get paid more.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

These big corporate companies have a lot more resources on the back end. So for us as veterinarians, that is a perk that you're going to get a signing bonus usually and you're. And not always. I mean, there are some private practices that pay very, very well. But if I had to say, corporates tend to pay more to their, their staff and their veterinarians.

[A]

That checks. That makes sense. Makes perfect sense. Okay, so they're paying more in corporate. I think it makes sense. It's kind of like if I even bring it to like the influencer model, some of the big, like very desirable brands like Gucci and like all the places people like, would love to have their name associated with, they pay way less than like, what a. I don't know, I just did a Ziploc deal, what a zip company might pay. So it makes sense. It's, it's the same in a lot of industries, but also different. Let's talk about your track. So you're associate veterinarian at Blue Animal Hospital in Chicago. We talked about 85k after one year. Now this I find fascinating. After one year you left and you went to Boulevard Veterinarian in Chicago, also as an associate veterinarian. Now we talk a lot about career tracks, how like you have to zigzag these days. Within one year you left and went to another spot. What was like the career thought process there?

[B]

Well, Blum Animal Hospital is an amazing practice. It's like, it's Blum, right? Blum, Blum.

[A]

Okay. I had it as blue, so Blum Animal Hospital. Okay.

[B]

And they were a staple in the downtown Chicago veterinary community. I mean, it's been around forever and just a really massive. I think when I was there, there was nine veterinarians. And for me, when I was graduating vet school, I said, I want to go somewhere where I'm going to get really great mentorship. And I went there and I got that. I mean, the best veterinarians. One of my mentors is very well known. She lectures around the entire country. So I couldn't have picked a better spot as far as that goes. And then from there, once I kind of got my feet underneath me, I felt really comfortable with practicing. I said, you know, I think I'd like to go somewhere that's a little bit smaller, just not as large of a practice. And Boulevard was fairly new then. It's also a private practice in downtown Chicago. I met their owner and founder, Dylan, and we became friends and then decided to make the move.

[A]

Okay, so you made the move. It sounds like a personal reasons also culture. Do you get a big pay increase when you make a move like that at that age?

[B]

Only a year out of experience, it was not as substantial as you would think.

[A]

Okay, so like I don't know, 100.

[B]

Making like 95k at that point.

[A]

Okay. In when when vets are working, especially as an associate vet, like you're not running the whole show. I've heard a lot about commission structures and bonus structures. Were you in your time not owning, but also being an associate vet? Were those in place and what do those look like?

[B]

Funny enough, most practices do pro sal, so production and salary. So once you make your salary, you get a percent of production on top of that.

[A]

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[B]

That's correct.

[A]

So as a result of that, though, aren't you always then incentivized to prescribe something that would cost more?

[B]

This is such a great question. I'm glad you mentioned it because I always hear, you know, veterinarians are trying to upsell me or they're selling me things that I don't necessarily need, which I feel like we'll probably dig into a little bit more. But I can say I've been working. I started working in a vet hospital and I was 15, so 20 years ago. I have never worked in any other field. I've worked with hundreds of veterinarians. I have never, I don't think ever once encountered a veterinarian that is selling something that isn't necessary for the pet or doing so in order to, like, make production.

[A]

Yeah, I think that's a good plug for all vets out there. I don't think as someone who knows nothing about the industry.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

My heart tells me people do not go through four years of undergrad and then four years of veterinarian school when they could be doing other areas in medicine. And obviously they have the skill set, aptitude, acumen, and brain to do it where they could be making more and then go down the route of being a vet for money. It doesn't feel like money is an incentive for vets given their care, love, respect for pets. Like, I don't think you go in this space to be. Be. To make. If you can make money, great, but you don't go in this as a money motivator.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this is just not a field where you're going to get rich. It's Just not so. I mean, maybe there's a few that have. But for the majority of us, we do it because it's a work of the heart and we love the animals. And so. So I hear what you're saying, and I guess that, you know, I think the general public probably does feel like, oh, well, if they're making production, are they just telling me I need these X rays when I really don't need these X rays? And I would say, I'm sure there's a bad apple in the bunch, but 99.99 of the time, we are making recommendations because that's really what's best for your pet. And as the employer, you have to think, how am I going to incentivize my employees? I mean, it's kind of like a. Yes. We deal with. Okay. The general public is worried about their veterinarians getting production, but it's the same as human medicine as well. I mean, they also get paid on production.

[A]

They do. So doctors get paid on production.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Did not know that.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

All right, as a consumer, what should we then? I mean, if I'm a consumer and I'm bringing my dog to the vet, and I know in the back of my head the number one thing I care about is my dog's health, that's number one. The second thing I care about is equitable, I guess, service, if that makes sense. What are things that I should know or I should do or I should ask if I feel as though maybe production is playing into some of the decision making because I think it's fair for our hearts. Like I'm saying, there's no way that's go in to this business to be charging us more. But at the same token, I'm like, they're incentivized to. So, like, as a consumer, how do I prepare myself or what tools should I have in those situations?

[B]

I think it's important to ask why. Why are you recommending this? Okay, I think that's fair. And we get asked that all the time. And we're not going to take offense to that. Like, we. That's our job is to kind of help educate you on why we're recommending certain tests or vaccines or whatever it may be, medications. So I think asking why is really important. I think it's really important to find a veterinarian that you trust. So that may take a little bit of searching. It's kind of like finding a therapist. Like, sometimes you have to. You have to shop around to find the right one and not. Not all personalities fit every. Every exact expectation. But finding someone you trust and asking why, I would say would be the two things I would recommend.

[A]

Okay, great advice. We're gonna get into your next stop, which is very entrepreneurial, and I'm so excited for that. Before we do, I don't wanna pass this as we're talking about students and vets and the compassion and empathy we have for vets out there, because I read and this is. This. This topic is a little bit morbid, but it's real. I read an article this morning. Not only has past research shown that veterinarians have a higher PMRs from suicide, but a recent Sur. 11,000, 627 US veterinarians also showed that vets were more likely to experience current and serious psychological distress, having a history of depression, having experienced suicidal ideation, compared with other types of professions in the medical field. These are numbers that are coming out now there. We're seeing this whole area change a little bit. There's a lot of articles about vets being worked too much. I just wanted to get your take on the industry from someone who's in it. Maybe the why or just your overall state of the union when you hear something like this.

[B]

Yeah, I think it's real. The compassion fatigue that veterinarians face is real. I've seen it firsthand. And burnout is. Is definitely happening within our field. I can name a couple of veterinarians that I know that have committed suicide.

[A]

And so I'm so sorry.

[B]

You hear these stats and they are, you know, to all of us, just stats, but. But it's definitely happening. And so I think the why. Gosh, it's. There's a lot of factors in it, but I think people have this misconception that veterinarians play with puppies and kittens all day long. And sure, that happens maybe 5% of the time, but the other 95% of the time is, you know, you think you see a new person every 20 minutes with their pet. This person is probably pretty stressed out because their pet's sick. So you have to, in 20 minutes, go in, build rapport. You have to recommend certain diagnostics. They're asking you why, which is well within their rights. You have to convince them to do it. Then you have to do the diagnostics, come up with a treatment plan, get them their meds, get them out, and then 20 minutes later you're doing the same thing. And maybe 20 minutes after that you're euthanizing. And maybe 20 minutes after that, it's a new Puppy. So it's a very grueling. And if you do that 10 hours a day, five days a week, it can be a really taxing job, I would say. And so I think that that probably contributes a little bit to it. The other. The other part in this is that unlike human medicine, we have patients that we know we can treat. They come in, let's say, with diabetes. Yeah, we know how to treat diabetes, but maybe the client doesn't have the means to do that because insulin costs money or because they can't medicate their dog for whatever reason. And so we have to euthanize these pets to maintain. I mean, they would have a terrible quality of life if we didn't treat them. And so I think that can be really taxing on veterinarians as well, knowing, hey, I can treat this pet, but for whatever reason, we're not able to. And so, you know, that's the alternative, is euthanizing them.

[A]

Yeah. In your eight years, have you experienced any type of, like, mental setbacks from the occupation and if so, what it looked like?

[B]

You know, I'm a naturally very, like, anxious person, I would say so, I think. And that's probably what makes me great, too, to some extent.

[A]

Sure. It's like a superpower, too.

[B]

It is, yeah. So, you know, I deal with a little bit of anxiety, but I've been lucky in that, you know, I have a great support system outside of work. I have really prioritized my work life balance as best as I can. So I've been lucky in that I haven't dealt with it as much as others have, but it's definitely. You know, there are some days you come home and you just. You got nothing left to give.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just want to lay in bed like a vegetable. Been talking and dealing all day long with. And I'm sure our human doctors feel the same way that work in the er, and it's very similar.

[A]

Yeah. Well, thank you for your work. I'm glad that you have powered through and continue to have a lot of success. On a more positive note, a cool business move you made is you go from associate vet. You're then in that role for three years at Boulevard Veterinary in Chicago. You're associate vet for a year. We already talked about that, Blum. So now you got. It's like three, four years under your belt, and you decide to start your own practice. Talk to us a little bit about what that looked like. You know, you're an owner and a medical director. You know, just give us the. That's A huge transition. What was like the business case behind it, what it looked like? How much of it did you own? How much did you raise? All the questions.

[B]

So I. My husband and I decided to move from Chicago to Nashville in 2020. And I loved Boulevard.

[A]

What? I'm just. Is this someone that's in Nashville? What drove the move?

[B]

Yeah, my husband's job.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

He was like, we can move to Miami.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We can move to Nashville or we can move to Austin. Like you get a chance.

[A]

No state income tax and all three. Yeah, I see that.

[B]

Tax purposes. I was like, I don't know. We didn't know a soul in Nashville. Nashville had never been. But we just. I like horses.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it wasn't too far from home, so I chose Nashville.

[A]

You could just drive up, then freaking Chicago.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

You know, emergency. Just go.

[B]

So best decision we ever made. And if I had stayed in Chicago, my plan would have been to have been a partner at Boulevard. I really loved that practice. They do such amazing work. But. And then coming here, I said, well, now what?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

So I. I decided I'm going down the path of opening my own clinic. At the time, there was a startup that would be majority owners. They would own 51% and kind of take care of the back of house administrative stuff of a hospital. And so that really takes a lot off the veterinarian's plate. It's kind of like a hybrid model where the veterinarian still has ownership, but you've got this startup that deals with all of the administrative stuff that vets really aren't great at. And so I decided to partner with them, opened up two hospitals here in Nashville.

[A]

And can you share the name of them or.

[B]

No, I'm probably not.

[A]

Okay, that's. It's a fast. So that business concept, you already said, vets don't have a ton of business acumen. So essentially, you give 51% of the company to an operator and they focus on all the business stuff. You continue to be a vet. They run the business side.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Interesting. And they. And this is a model that. Is it just done in Nashville or.

[B]

All over the country? There's multiple companies now that are doing it.

[A]

Okay, fascinating. So when you do that, you get 49. Do you also have to contribute startup capital?

[B]

You do.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I'm sure every place is different. I did, yeah.

[A]

Can you share how much you had to contribute?

[B]

It was a lot.

[A]

Like more than more than a half million?

[B]

A little bit less than that.

[A]

Okay. So that's what you started up. You get 49%. You now own your clinic. What's the hardest part about owning your clinic versus working for a clinic?

[B]

Oh my gosh. Managing people was a big challenge for me. I love my team. I love working with, you know, all of my associates and my nurses, but just dealing with the nuances of different personalities and how some people respond to different feedback than others. Like you don't learn that in vet school. I mean, I can talk to dogs and cats all day long, but when it comes to managing people, it was really a huge learning curve for me.

[A]

Interesting. Did you ever have to hire any vets or were you the sold that? Okay.

[B]

When I Left, there was five of us, five veterinarians. I had a staff of 25.

[A]

Five. Oh my gosh. You hire them just out of school or from other vets?

[B]

I hired. The majority of them were coming from other clinics.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So yeah, we had a team of I think, yeah, 25.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

All women.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, that's cool.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

That is badass. And I'm assuming you talked about starting salary. Is it, was it similar when you were hiring or has the market changed?

[B]

Depends on their experience and how long they've been out for and if they're part time, full time, of course. So it's gone. It has gone up a bit. So I'd say like 125. 130.

[A]

Okay. Okay.

[B]

Like average.

[A]

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[B]

You know, I think with any startup, there's always the peaks and valleys.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[B]

I'm married to an entrepreneur who has done startup after startup. So I see it from all angles. And I think, you know, after growing it for almost three years, it got to a point where I said, I don't know, this is a great fit for me long term. Okay. And so then ended up selling my shares. At this point, they were private equity backed, so sold my shares and decided to go a different route.

[A]

Okay, so you go a different route and when you sell your shares back, we already talked about maybe it's around 500,000 or in that range. I'm assuming it was profitable. Right.

[B]

I left getting what I had put in, getting it back.

[A]

Okay. It was kind of like a break even model.

[B]

It was a break even for me. If I had stayed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For X amount of years, and then we had sold, which was the plan I would have made.

[A]

I don't know much more.

[B]

13 times EBITDA.

[A]

But you were just ready to. It was time.

[B]

Time for me to go elsewhere.

[A]

It was time for you to go elsewhere.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

When you in this venture, which was three years, you obviously got your money back, which is great. You're also paid a salary though, while you're working, right?

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

So in general, like cash flow wise, it was fine for you, right? Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Skin off my back.

[A]

Yeah, no skin off your back.

[B]

Exactly. Okay.

[A]

One thing I do want to ask, and not specific to this deal, but from a business perspective, this is something I'm very aware of and something that some of the people back home might not be aware of. What's happening is not just in your instance. All over the country, private equity groups are seeing the profitability in the numbers within veterinarian clinics and they are rolling them up everywhere. And I get it, especially when I did research on this, this industry. This industry has experienced steady growth with a compound annual growth rate of 4.7%. Essentially what that means is this industry is growing about 5% a year. The annual revenue per patient of$622 has increased drastically from4.99. And professional services, so you're seeing that the market's projected to expand to reaching 70 billion in 2029. All the numbers are showing that people are paying more. The industry is expanding and there's growth in it, which means eyeballs and money is spent in it. For consumers, though, with private equity, and I'm not talking about specific, your clinic, all clinics, what are things we need to know that now private equity companies who are driven by profitability and growth that are running these clinics, like what should we know and what should we think?

[B]

It's. That's a really complex answer. Private equity, it's very similar to where dental was 10 years ago. I would say maybe 20 years ago. Yes, the big roll up strategy is happening. And as a consumer, I don't know how much you feel it as a consumer. I think the one thing that I hear clients say and they call me and they say, hey, I need a concierge vet. Because this practice I've been going to for 10 years, something happened in the last two years. It just doesn't feel the same. It doesn't feel as personal. I feel like a number. And more times than not they've been bought out by private equity or a corporate, corporate backed company. And so I think as consumers, they just start to feel a little bit like a number in a system. And that is at no fault of the staff working in these clinics, of course. I mean, most veterinarians I know are working in corporate owned clinics and they're amazing vets. But the fact of the matter is when PE comes in, they want to maximize their returns. And the way to do that is to increase prices and to see more pets, increase the volume. And so there's only so much we can do as boots on the ground to kind of keep up with that and still maintain that rapport. And so I think consumers, they can start not right away, but over time they're kind of like, hey, it just doesn't feel the same.

[A]

Okay, so maybe if you're feeling. I'm thinking from my standpoint, if I'm feeling there's been a change at the vet, maybe just asking some questions like, hey, like, do you guys still have full ownership Is it owned by PE Et cetera, et cetera? Like I can ask those questions or.

[B]

Yeah, I think. Yeah, that's fair to ask.

[A]

Okay. All right.

[B]

And there are some corporations out there that do a great job.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And the bonus to them is that, you know, you do have more resources, so you're going to have great technology in your clinics. You're going to be able to pay reimbursed tuition for employees. I mean, there's some really great perks to it. It's not all bad.

[A]

It's good. It's a really good point. Like, in general. Right. Private equity. The idea is they will acquire to drive optimization and drive profitability back to the company. But hopefully the idea is that they're using their network, their skill sets, their resources, their tools to actually make the company much better as well. So as a consumer, we might see that in, you know, better X ray machines, better, you know, medicine, maybe there's a facelift in the whole entire clinic, et cetera. So like you said, there's, there's. There's good and bad for all that stuff. I just think it gives a consumer things to be aware of and if you start to see a change, maybe ask a couple questions.

[B]

I think so. And I don't know that it's even that it would be an obvious, tangible change, is what I'm hearing consumers say. It's more of like a feeling. I know that sounds silly, but the culture just seems to change a bit.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

So. And I think that consumers, you know, we feel that.

[A]

Yeah. And I'm sure I'm going to. I'm going to speak on some vets without being a vet, I'm sure, because I know business owners feel it when PE takes over because it becomes a little tougher. And I'm sure vets in some capacities also feel that because you're working more, it feels like you're maybe losing a little touch of, like, why you started here, because become so business and corporate. So. Yeah.

[B]

And I think if anyone in B is listening, like, I think it's important to remember, you know, to. To stay in touch and to talk to the people that are boots on the ground, because they're the ones that drive it, they're the ones that make it go round. And if we don't reinvest in them or we don't listen to their concerns, like, what's going to happen? Yeah, it's not going to be good.

[A]

Exactly. All right, great advice. We're going to get into all the dog tips and tricks Especially from the perspective of a vet. Before we do, got to talk about your concierge service. So then you. You exit that. You get, obviously, everything worked out. You now have a concierge service. Something I've never heard of ever before. The closest thing I've heard about something like this actually reminded me of my grandfather. He was an endodontist and did oral surgery, and he actually never owned a practice. He never. Or he owned his own practice, but he never owned brick and mortar. What he would do is partner with the actual dentists and then he would give them a larger kickback and do the procedure in their office, which I think is kind of cool. But talk to me a little bit about concierge pet services.

[B]

That was very entrepreneurial back in the day.

[A]

Back in the day, this was like, yes, you cleaned up.

[B]

Yeah, go doctor.

[A]

Let me rip. Really smart overhead. Yeah. Keep a lean and profitable smart man.

[B]

I left my last practice feeling, I guess, you know, you asked me did I ever feel burnout. I guess this would be one point in my career I could say, yeah, I felt a little burnt out. And I did a lot of soul searching of what do I want to do? And I have come to the conclusion that I love being a veterinarian. I love taking care of animals. That is my vocation in life. And I want to be able to do that. And I want to be able to offer quality care, really high quality care. And in doing that, like, you have to be able to spend the time with your clients to sort of build that rapport, to be able to, you know, answer their questions or if something comes up on a Saturday night. And so I came up with this business model all on my own. I'm gonna pet my brilliant.

[A]

Let's go, Dr. Joseph.

[B]

And I just, you know, I mean, not all of my own. I will say the human concierge medicine model is very similar. Sure, A little different, but similar. And so I said, you know, I want to take the numbers changing. I want to take X amount of patients and I want to give them really great quality of care. My clients are going to have my cell phone number, my personal cell phone number. They can call and text me anytime if something's wrong with their pet. I'm going to go to their home. I'm going to see them in the luxury of their own home, which is super convenient for them and stress free for the animals. And. And they're going to pay an annual fee for this. And I wasn't sure about the annual fee because there are a Lot of veterinarians that are mobile, veterinarians that do go to people's homes and do what I do, but they don't charge that concierge fee that human doctors do. And as veterinarians, we do get taken advantage of a little bit. We have people call us. If they're your client, they'll call you on a Friday night at 4:00, hey, what's going on? And they're not paying for that consult necessarily. So with this annual fee, it's like you are a member of this, this concierge.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Practice. And you've paid, you've paid for the annual fee. You can call me anytime with any questions you have.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

People are like, oh gosh, do you think, like you're gonna get abused with this? Like, are people gonna know? My clients are amazing. They really only call me if there's like a major issue. And so having that peace of mind is worth every penny for them. And, and it works out for me because now I'm not taking phone calls on a Saturday and not getting, you know, paid for something that I went to school for a very long time to do.

[A]

Right. Do you have any employees right now?

[B]

I have one employee.

[A]

One employee.

[B]

We've been together since we worked together in Chicago at Boulevard and then she came here, she helped me open my last practice and now she works with me at the concierge vet. She is amazing. She's like my right hand woman.

[A]

And do you own 100% of it?

[B]

I own 100%.

[A]

There you go. A little better than 49%.

[B]

A lot better.

[A]

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[B]

Okay. So glad you asked. Jason.

[A]

Let's talk.

[B]

Let's talk.

[A]

What?

[B]

We're recording one pet I recommend. There's the platinum plan, which is $3,000 for the year. It includes all of their vaccines, their heartworm tests, their blood work, their fecal, all of those annual wellness items that every dog needs once a year. In addition to that, all of your visits. All of my visits to your home.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And then you can call and text me anytime. Now, let's say you're in New York and Teddy hurts himself. Yeah, he hurts his paw. He's limping. You can call me. I can look at him on FaceTime. We can do a whole telemedicine visit. I can then call in medications to a human pharmacy. So you don't even have to go to the vet in New York City to kind of save you that. That headache. I have a lot of clients that are in the entertainment industry, whether they're singers, a lot of country singers, of course. So they'll. The other day, I had a client who's on tour. Their dog was jumping out of the bus. He hurt his back. I was able to call into medications to Costco in the city that they were in. They picked him up. Dog's doing great. So there's a lot of, you know, just making your life easier now with you being gone and knowing that he may need to go see another vet in another city, I am totally open to prorating it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So I think what I've been doing for my other clients that I prorate, they are dropping it to $2,000 for the year.

[A]

Oh, interesting. Okay. All right.

[B]

You think about it.

[A]

Let me think about it.

[B]

It is more expensive than a brick and mortar.

[A]

Yeah. But you're also getting convenience.

[B]

Convenience and not to mention, it does include a lot of wellness items.

[A]

And you're getting you and you're getting me, but what do you do if, like. Okay, so everyone, let's talk about this. We're in a situation where when I rescued Teddy, he had some kind of hip issue. From the jump, we've been all over it, and we still don't know exactly what it is. We got X rays. He had to get sedated. The. The vet actually thought they were he. She just thought it was mild hip dysplasia. She's like, there's something going on, but I don't see anything else. The radiologist thought it was the ACL tear, which I know is not the right vernacular for dogs, but ACL tear. Then we sent it to another radiologist, someone that you know, and he was like, I'm not exactly sure what he said that you had said, you need to see. You want to see Teddy. Then you're like, the. The X rays weren't done properly, so we got to redo the X rays. How if you're a concierge ve do things like X rays and stuff like that, like, where would it be done?

[B]

So I rent an or. So any surgeries I have to do.

[A]

Smart.

[B]

Kind of like your grandpa.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I rent an OR at a private practice, and then they also have X ray machines. If they have to have an abdominal ultrasound, I have a specialist where we do it. In your home?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Most things can be done in the home, but anything that requires anesthesia or like an X ray, I do. Out of private practice.

[A]

This is this model's genius. I like it. It's smart. I'm sure it's more profitable and more convenient. Creates a win, win, win. Right. Like, this has got to be your most Prof. Venture so far.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, gosh, it's only. We're eight months in, so we're still in our infancy.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But the overhead is definitely not as nearly as much.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think, you know, if it goes the way I want it to. Yes. I think it will be very profitable.

[A]

Okay. Amazing. All right, well, for all my patient pet owners, we learned so much there. Now we gotta get into the selfish questions.

[B]

Let's do it.

[A]

These are the questions that we have a vet here right now to give us all the answers that we just otherwise wouldn't get. So I am going to just go right into some of the questions that were asked, and I want your perspective. All right. Question number one from the money mafia pet insurance. There is a lot of Noise about pet insurance. Most people can't stand it. They don't cover anything that's outside. Major. Some people are for it. A lot of opinions. What's your take on pet insurance? Any tips you can give us?

[B]

My tip is if you are getting a puppy or a kitten or a new dog, you need to get pet insurance immediately before you even.

[A]

Should I get pet insurance?

[B]

Yes, 100. You should get pet insurance before you even see a veterinarian.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

The reason being is before you go that they don't have any pre existing conditions, but now this limp with Teddy is a pre existing condition. And so anytime Teddy limps going forward, you're gonna have a hard time getting that covered.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

So I strongly, strongly recommend the bottom line here is whether or not you go to a PE backed clinic or a private practice, the cost of veterinary medicine is going up. And that's because our technology, we are getting better. We're using technology that they're using in human medicine and that costs money. And, and so the cost of care is going up and really the only way for us to kind of help consumers with this is to get pet insurance.

[A]

So very pro pet insurance. Okay. Very pro vaccines. I remember I talked about this on my, on your podcast with my other goldens that I had back in the day, Ramen, he had got a vaccine and almost died from the vaccine. And so, and obviously that was a random allergic reaction. And this question came in from Kristen said are pet vaccines actually necessary or are they more harm than good? What's your overall take on vaccines for dogs?

[B]

There are four core vaccines. Rabies, the distemper parvo vaccine, the Bordetella vaccine, which is kennel cough, and the leptospirosis vaccine. Those are four vaccines that I give to my own pets and I recommend to every single one of my patients. They are super duper important. I there is really no case unless they have like life threatening reactions to them that I wouldn't vaccinate for those.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And people say I hear a lot. Oh gosh. Like is rabies really a thing? Like my dog doesn't really go outside. Like what about rabies? Well, I had a patient, a bat got in the house, the bat had rabies and the bat bit the cat.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So it happens. I mean we see it and if humans get, get infected with rabies, we die.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

There is no treatment. So I mean if you go undiagnosed, there's no treatment. So it's not just for their health, it's for our Health, too. It's a huge public health issue as well.

[A]

Okay, great answer. All right, Healthiest dog food brand. And then additionally to this for senior dogs or like, even a teddy when you have arthritis or hip issues. Any type of treatments or supplements for arthritis. So first, healthiest dog food brand and then supplements for, like, arthritis or, like, hip issues.

[B]

The number one question I get asked as a veterinarian is, what should I feed my pet?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I wish I could sit up here and say, feed them the raw food. Feed them these, like, really cute boutique brands that are out there that have amazing marketing. But the fact of the matter is, I don't feed those to my pet. And I. And I don't recommend them.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

So Kibble gets a really bad rap.

[A]

Yeah, it does.

[B]

But Kibble is if you choose the right brand. There's three brands I recommend which are Purina Pro Plan, Royal Canaan, and Hill Science Diet.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

They are all formulated with veterinary nutritionists. They are, like, very regulated, so you know exactly what's in them. And they're well balanced foods that are completely safe to give your pets. If you're like, I do not care. I am so anti Kibble. I won't do it. And you want to feed fresh food. I really like just food for dogs or just food for cats. They do a great job. And they also have a veterinarian on staff helping formulate them. Otherwise, anybody can call themselves a pet nutrition expert and put really cute packaging on it and charge you an arm and a leg and tell you it's grain free and gluten free and you're gonna pay way more for something that probably isn't as good.

[A]

Interesting. Very fascinating. Okay. Why does my dog's nose peel?

[B]

Oh, that's so funny. I have a crusty nose peeling dog at home myself. You know, it's a. It's cartilage and. And it happens whether it's weather change or kind of like if you have a crusty elbow, like, it can just happen. So there's all different kinds of moisturizers you can put on there. I just put Aquaphor on my dog's nose.

[A]

Okay, interesting. Any of those tools, as far as, like, de shedding or any of these things that we got going on, Any of them you're for or against?

[B]

I mean, brushing is super important. I like de shedding shampoos. The Ferminator, which I know we talked about on my podcast. I have seen a lot of pets when they get fermented or deferminated. I don't know what the right verb is there. That, that that brush will cause micro tears in their skin and then they can get infections in their skin. So I kind of stay away from those, like really harsh metal pronged de shedding tools.

[A]

Okay, we talked about this already. Vets are paid a salary and then they're paid a portion of what they bring up. From a sales perspective. Someone is asking specifically, like, what is the commission percentage that they get on that?

[B]

I'd say typically the average is probably around 20.

[A]

20.

[B]

And you don't get 20 on everything. You generate revenue on it kind of. It's. It's usually professional services.

[A]

Okay, forgive me if you said this. I'm just going back to it. Did you go to the arthritis supplement?

[B]

Oh, I didn't. So I really love Dasaquin is a great chondroitin and glucosamine supplement that they can take. It's a chew. They usually love the taste of it. And then Adequan is an injection which is also great for joint health.

[A]

Okay. And best shoes, like, as far as, like, what is your take on either chews and, or treats or some of those like, like big bones, they'll sit and bite forever. What's your overall vet endorsement?

[B]

I tend to steer clear of anything that's super hard. So hard bones, hard antlers. I would throw them in the trash because I see so many dogs that fracture their teeth on them and then I have to go in and take that tooth out, which is so much work. Which we can talk. We should talk about dentals. If we're okay, we're not going to.

[A]

We will.

[B]

And, and so I really like. There's a brand called Yomp Y O M P and they make, make silicone toys and bones that are a little bit more gentle for pets to chew on, but they still kind of get that chewing sensation. So that kind of texture with at least I can put my thumb into it. It's malleable.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Kongs are great. Okay, Trying to think. What else treats? I like Stewart's Freeze Dried Beef Liver treats. You can get those on Amazon.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

Zooks makes good treats.

[A]

Do you like feeding a diet? Do you ever feed your dog human food?

[B]

I wish I could say no.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But sometimes they just look at me and I gotta give them a little piece of cheese. I mean, it depends on the pet. Like, my dogs are really, they're very well trained and they're not gonna sit there and like drool at the table. So I will give them a little bit. I don't ever do it while I'm sitting there eating. But it's like, okay, if I have a teeny little piece, I'll give it to them in their bowl.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I don't recommend doing that on a frequent basis.

[A]

Okay. That's a good idea, too, to give it in the bowl as opposed to, like, feeding on the table. You talked about dental work, and I gotta jump on it now because I'm thinking about it. I remember dog clean. Like an actual professional cleaning. Dogs have to get sedated, and then if a dog has to get a tooth pulled, it's super expensive. So can you walk me through some of the dental health and the cost behind it?

[B]

Yes. I can't begin to stress how important dental health is a. Because they don't have hands like we do. So everything they do, whether it's picking up a toy, giving you a kiss, eating their food, all of that involves their mouth, their teeth, their oral health in general. It also systemically. I've had some dogs with such bad. And cats.

[A]

Cats.

[B]

I always leave out cats. Yeah, cats. This goes for cats, too. My cats, we love our cats.

[A]

Taylor Swift would love this.

[B]

Exactly. He's gonna call me. They. I've had them have such bad dental disease that it affects their blood work. It can affect their. Yeah, I mean, you can see changes systemically from their dental health. So. Dental health is so important. And I can't tell you how many times I go over a treatment plan or a quote with a client and they almost fall over looking at how much it's going to cost to.

[A]

How much does it cost?

[B]

Do a dental. It depends. It varies. I would say roughly, like a couple. A professional cleaning. You're probably looking at like 600, 700, 800.

[A]

Damn. How much to pull a tooth?

[B]

Depends on which tooth it is and how long it's going to take, but you're looking at, like, probably around a thousand. Twelve hundred.

[A]

All right. If you're the kind of person who's always chasing growth, whether it's in business, career, or just betting on yourself, listen up. There's a podcast that just dropped a new season, and it's right in that zone. It's called this is Small Business, hosted by Andrea Marquez. And season six is all about entrepreneurs who took massive risks to build something real. We're talking about raw, unfiltered stories. People who literally quit steady jobs, drained savings, or started with nothing but had an idea. It's the kind of stuff that gives you perspective and will help you fire at the same Time. What I love about this is it's not just hype. It's real strategy, real grit, and real lessons from people who've done the damn thing. So if you're plotting your next move, maybe launching that side hustle, scaling a business, or pivoting hard, go check out this is Small Business. Season six is live right now on Apple podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen. It's one of those shows that actually pushes you to think bigger. And you know, I'm all about that. Okay, how do we. This is the. We talk about this financial transparency podcast all the time. I go back to some of these questions, but how, how the hell am I supposed to know how much it should cost? And then also there's a lot of discussion out there about negotiating with the vet. How do I know how much it should cost in benchmark it? And two, how do I negotiate with a vet?

[B]

Okay, that's a great question. So let me. I'll tell you what goes into the reason these prices are the way that they are is it's not just a cleaning. Like, people hear I go to the dentist. I know what they do. Like, how can this cost $700?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

This pet's coming in. We're running pre anesthetic blood work. They're not sedated. They're under full anesthesia.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Which means I have to pay two support staff to licensed trained nurses to monitor their anesthesia, place an IV catheter, start them on IV fluids, give them all of their anesthetic drugs. Like that in itself, just the monitoring equipment is very expensive. We then take full mouth oral radiographs because a lot of times what we may see on the surface is not telling the full picture of what's going on underneath the gum line. So I got to make sure they don't have any infections around the roots of their teeth. And then from there, if I have to extract a tooth, that's such a bad term for. I'm doing full blown oral surgery. I'm using high speed drills. High speed. It's like I'm sweating bullets. It's like, takes a lot of skill, like a ton of skill. And it takes a lot of time. And then from there we have to recover them. So it's a huge procedure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think as vets, we really do ourselves a disservice by saying it's just a dental, because it's not. So that that's one thing to think about. And then how do you know? That's a great question. I think If I was a consumer and my dog was going in for a dental, I would ask, are you taking full mouth X rays? Every single pet, every single time, Gold standard, standard of care, they should get X rays taken.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Make sure that they are going under anesthesia. And I would ask them, you know, are you. Do you have a designated support staff member monitoring their anesthesia while they're under?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I think that's really important.

[A]

Should you call, like, should I call another vet and be like, hey, how much do you charge for this?

[B]

You can there. It's not wrong. And that some people do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I will say, though, you're probably getting what you pay for. There may be some places that are going to charge you. It's like, it's like plastic surgery. Like, you want to get a nose job.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You go to Tijuana, you're probably going to pay a lot less.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It may be a great job. You might be very happy with it, but there's a chance that you probably aren't. Versus if you go to Dr. 90210 or someone local, like, you're probably going to get the best care.

[A]

How do you know who Dr. 90210 is?

[B]

That's a great question. I again asking, who's taking full mouth X rays?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Do you have designated support staff monitoring anesthesia and also finding a vet that you trust? Because most of the times if you have a vet you trust, you're not just like, you have built a rapport with them and, and they're the ones that are doing the dental procedure. It's not like, that's like on your first go, usually.

[A]

Yeah. Interesting. And then, and then negotiating. I'm sure people have negotiated with you. I just negotiated with you. But on the, on the whole veterinarian, like actual process, like, you know, what happens is I come in, doctor prescribes. Okay, we gotta give him the shot. We gotta do this. Then they have like the closer. I always joke around, he's like, the closer guy comes in, he's like, all this is how much it is. Give me a credit card. Can I negotiate with that guy? And if so, how would I?

[B]

I. You certainly can. I don't think you'll make much headway. Prices are pretty fixed.

[A]

Okay. Okay.

[B]

So could you, I guess, give it a go?

[A]

And I assume you would negotiate before you actually went. I would think I negotiate before I even get to the office.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. But also you have to think, do you negotiate when you go to your human doctor? Do you know, negotiate when you Go to your dentist now, can you?

[A]

Yeah, a lot of people are doing that.

[B]

Like, you're going in for, like, let's say you're going in for your physical exam. They're going to run blood work. They're going to.

[A]

I don't negotiate that. But, like, if you have a big procedure, you can negotiate now. And with your dentist, you can negotiate. Cat, we've had some. Come on. You can negotiate cash up front.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

And. Or if you actually finance with them and don't go through your insurance, they'll give you discounts. There's, like, all different. The biggest place to negotiate right now in health care is hospitals, because hospitals are overcharging exorbitantly, like, at a really nasty level.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, like, checking, like when you go to the hospital, like, making sure you're checking that every line item was actually happening.

[B]

You know, I haven't seen it done yet, and. Yeah, but. And you're the guru on this, so I would like for you to go and report back to me and let me know how it goes.

[A]

I'm going to do a whole thing on it. I'm going to try it. I want to go shave with you. I'll do it with the other vet.

[B]

No, no, no. This is not.

[A]

Yeah. This is not up for negotiation. Okay. This is a tough one. It's a really tough one. And people struggle the most with it is the end of life. Like, how and what advice do you have for someone that's listening to this, where maybe their pet. The quality of life is deteriorating and every pet owner struggles with, how do you know when and how to let the pet go in peace?

[B]

I actually have a dog at home who I'm going through this with. I can relate and certainly empathize with my clients. And, you know, I think it's really important that you lean on your veterinarian and you ask them, what do you think? Sometimes you just need an objective outsider to kind of help guide you in that decision. And I know it's really hard once we speak it into the atmosphere of. And. And just saying, hey, do you think it's time? Or will you let me know when it's time? That makes it feel so real. But it's really important to have somebody that can help guide you in that decision. Even me. I'm a vet, and I have a hard time with my own pets deciding. I mean, gosh, I would do anything for them, and I have the resources because I am a vet to do anything for them. So a lot of times I Have to rely on my colleagues or my husband to be like, no, as an outsider, like, I do think it's time. So that's one thing. And then the other is there is a quality of life scale online. If you just type in quality of life scale dog or quality of life scale cat, it can quantify the quality of life so that you can track different metrics like hydration. Are they, you know, grooming themselves? One thing I always hear owners say is, oh, gosh, my dog, he's still eating, you know, so it's not time. But I know dogs. Like, my one little dog that's sick at home. He will eat till he's going in his grave. And that doesn't mean his quality of life is good. So we can't just chalk it up to just that. I think there's, like, a whole ton of factors we really have to take into consideration.

[A]

That is a great trading secret right there. We'll put that one in the show. Notes. 100%. Two more I got for you is bathing. How often should you bathe your dog?

[B]

People really get hung up on this. I love this. Every new puppy exam or kitten exam I do, they always ask about bathing, which is funny to me. There is, like, no right or wrong here. I say give them a bath when they're dirty. If they're a doodle or they have that kind of hair, they should get groomed every six to eight weeks. Have that as an expectation. And I've never really had a case of a pet getting bathed too much where it's drying out their skin.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

As long as you're using, like, a nice normal, like Burt's Bees makes a great dog and cat shampoo. Honestly, you don't need to bathe your cats ever.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But dog shampoos, like, use a good dog shampoo, and you can't really overbathe them.

[A]

Wait, dumb question. But why? Because they're cats. Yeah.

[B]

Cats are really a huge part of their, like, everyday regimen is to groom themselves. And so if we bathe them, that, like, really throws them off.

[A]

No way. Okay.

[B]

Super clean.

[A]

All right, so if you're me and I have Teddy, how often would you bathe them?

[B]

I would bathe Teddy once a month or two.

[A]

Okay, good. That's all right. Yeah, we could do that. No problem. CBD or THC in dogs I have had.

[B]

It's so interesting. We're, like, at this inflection point in veterinary medicine where I can't legally give you, like, a yes, do THC in your dogs. I will say that I have had clients that have done it with their pets and had really great responses.

[A]

Okay. Teeth cleaning on dogs, like toothbrush and actual, like, using dog.

[B]

Huge.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Game changer.

[A]

How often?

[B]

As your vet, I'm supposed to say every single day.

[A]

That's insane.

[B]

I do not. I don't do that. I try and do it like once a week, once every two weeks.

[A]

I need to step that up.

[B]

It's a game changer. The. The. The pets that I see whose parents brush their teeth have exponentially better oral health and can get away with way less cleanings. They don't have to have oral surgery than the ones that don't.

[A]

Okay, last thing I got for you is flea and ticks. What do you say? What's the prescription?

[B]

So many out there. The one that I prescribe is Simparica Trio. That is not to say that there aren't other ones that do great. Okay, so fleas and ticks are really important. You definitely don't want fleas on your pets. You definitely don't want ticks on your pet. But heartworms are even more important because they are life threatening. And so that's like, really the big one. And Simpirica Trio, which is really nice. It does all three fleas, ticks, and heartworms all in one chew.

[A]

Okay. Amazing.

[B]

Not all preventions do that, so.

[A]

Okay. All right, great advice. We're gonna get your trading secret. Before we do, just one overarching theme. You've seen so many animals, so many pet owners from Chicago to Nashville, and I'm sure you talk to vets all over the place. One theme, one thing in general that you see pet owners do that allow their pets to live longer, healthier, and happier lives. If you had to put it in, like, one thing, what do you think it would be?

[B]

I think it's owners that focus on preventative health. It's not the ones that. And this isn't wrong, but we have. It's like creasters, you know, like the people that go to church on Christmas and Easter but don't go all the rest of your. And I am a christie for sure. But yeah, it's the owners that come in every year for the annual. They run the annual blood work. We have really good baselines on what their pet looks like when they're healthy, so that when they are sick, we can compare back. It's the ones that are doing those routine dental cleanings so that we don't have to pull 10 teeth when they're 12 years old. So I find the ones that are really focused on preventative here. They tend to have great quality of life and live the longest.

[A]

All right, so much information on the industry and its owners and consumers. Honestly, an invaluable podcast. We're going to have to have literally notepad out, take notes on this one so that we can have them forever. Josie, this has been great. Now you and I have to actually go see if our boy over here, Teddy, has got a tour in acl. So I will keep you guys up to date on that. But before we do, you got to leave us with a trading secret. Dr. Josie, it could be anything and everything, but specific to your career track. What can you leave us with?

[B]

I think I have two.

[A]

Oh, I love that.

[B]

Yeah. One of which is I know that tax laws have changed a little bit in 2025 with different. Different write offs for your pets.

[A]

They have. I'm impressed.

[B]

Yeah. So I'll let Jason fill you guys in on all of that.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

I'll probably get it wrong.

[A]

No, but you're exactly right in the recap. David and I will go through all the tax laws and there are different things you could write off. So we'll go over that. That's a good one.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

Glad you gave me two, though.

[B]

Yeah, you're so welcome. And number two is a little bit more case based. All everybody, all the influencers, everyone's making beautiful big baguettes of sourdough right now.

[A]

It's like the hottest thing.

[B]

I feel like the hottest thing. And I've had a few cases now of dogs jumping up onto the counters and eating the raw sour dough. And what happens is that dough goes into their stomach. It cooks in the heat and the acidity of the stomach, it expands.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

So you've got a whole dough sourdough loaf growing in their stomach. The stomach can flip on itself, which is obviously very dangerous. But not only that, the yeast releases ethanol, which is alcohol. Alcohol gets absorbed into their bloodstream and they get like. Like life threatening drunk.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right, so when you're baking sourdough, keep it up. Watch it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Before I wrap with you, you told this story on your podcast and everyone go listen to that. But if you haven't heard it yet, can you just bre. Because I think this is where we should wrap the importance of leash training and an example you recently saw. And then we will wrap this up. Can you just tell people, like, a very quick summary of that story.

[B]

This is a sad story. I was listening back to our episode I'm like, oh, my gosh, this is so depressing. But it's the reality, and it's educational. It is.

[A]

You might save one dog's life with this.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

That's everything.

[B]

So there was a client of mine that was walking his pet off leash. Dog is amazing. Very well behaved. But I always say they still are animals. They will get into things you also don't. People can drive crazy, so just put them on a leash. This pet was sniffing around in a bush. The owner noticed he had something plastic in his mouth. Wasn't able to see what it was, thought it was trash. They come home 30 minutes later, the dog's acting super agitated. He brings him into the clinic like his heart rate's through the roof. His pupils are huge. He has full body tremors. We drug test him and then later come to find out he ate an entire bag of cocaine.

[A]

Unbelievable. And through a multitude of trying to save him, he ended up passing, right?

[B]

Yes. It was like a week's long stay in the ICU trying to do everything we could, but ultimately he didn't make it. And so I think it just really re Emphasizes the importance of keeping them on a leash.

[A]

Keep them on a leash. That's just one story. If you want more stories that are both educational, insightful, you'll have to go check out the podcast in the vet's office. I am on that. We just gave you a tease of just a little bit of that episode. So go check it out in the vet's office. It's a great one. I talk all about Teddy, and I get a lot of advice too. And Dr. Josie, where can everyone find everything else you have going on? Your concierge services, all your handles, Give it to us.

[B]

I have one handle and one handle only.

[A]

Love it.

[B]

At Dr. Dr. Josie Vet.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

On Instagram, all my links are there. Check it out. Send me all your questions.

[A]

All right. Amazing. And then do you have a website for your concierge service?

[B]

I do. It's the Concierge DVM. So, Doctor of VeterinaryMedicine. DVM.com.

[A]

I love it. And then, of course, in the vet's office on YouTube and where you find your podcast, go check us out. Dr. Josie, thank you for trading literally all the secrets in the vet space.

[B]

Thank you for having me.

[A]

Ding, ding, ding. We are closing the bell to the Dr. Josie episode. Lot of action, especially if you are a pet owner, a dog owner, or just have any interest in this field. Just a lot of information there. David, what'd you think Yeah, I thought.

[C]

It was good if you had a dog and if you don't have a dog. No, I'm kidding. I still think that it was good. I think if you had a dog, you were probably writing things down. You had the notepad go, things were flowing, you were making sure your pet insurance was up to go. You make sure you're not cooking sourdough on the counter. Because that story about the sourdough and the dog and it grows in their stomach. Oh my God, that was jaw dropping. Diabolical. Some really interesting, you know, full spectrum from the career of the veterinarian to some really helpful dog, cat, animal, you know, animal for the, for the owners out there. So I thought all around it was good. I thought it was good.

[A]

There's nearly one dog in every two homes in 2025. And they're saying 68 million households, that's about 45.5% of all households own a dog in 2025. So. So, you know, hopefully we can touch that audience a little bit.

[B]

But.

[C]

Dr. Joseph, hold on, hold on, hold on. I'm gonna, I, I got a personal story to tell about that stat. Can you read that stat one more time? One. And out of every, what, two hosts.

[A]

One in every two homes have a dog. There's nearly 89 to 90 million pet dogs nationwide. So about 45.5% of all households in the United States in 2025.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Have a dog in that.

[C]

So we're, this is a safe space. Right. So it's just going to be. We're, we're going to, we're going to tell a little David story time here. And I know people are going to jump and rush to the reviews and say David is the most insincere, unthoughtful, blah, blah, blah. But you got to just let, don't clip the clips, just listen to the story because there's a meaning to it. Did you know that I want, did you ever. By the way, you're, you're obviously looking for the love of your life, correct? Do you have a list?

[A]

A list of what?

[C]

Like things like a non negotiable list. Like they, you know, this is really important. This, this, this non negotiable.

[A]

I think maybe in my head I don't have one on paper. Should I have one on paper?

[C]

No, I don't think you should have one paper. But I always said that I would never be with someone that had, came from a divorced family.

[A]

That's insane. Or insane.

[C]

Or had a dog.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Or had a dog.

[A]

50 of American America gone. 50 again of America gone. These are insane. Wait, you're not a dog guy. What's wrong with you? You're not.

[C]

No, listen, this is. See, this is you. Now, everyone's gonna already be typing out the I hate David thing. Now listen, this is why it's beautiful. Because my wife comes from divorced parents and she has a dog. And so I stubborn thought I was going through life thinking I knew what I wanted, and here I got to inherit an absolutely joy of a dog. Bentley is a miniature Shih Tzu. Yes, he a lot. He's just excited when people come over. But he's snuggly, he's cuddly, he looks at you with those puppy dog eyes. I single David. That was looking. You were wrong. And divorced parents, we can go on a whole topic about that. I came from, you know, my parents been married for almost 50 years. That's great. Your parents are married. That's just what we grow up with. We think that's the only way it can work. My in laws, my mom, my dad, my. My father in law, my mother in law, they get together. They. We still go on family vacations. It's an absolutely loving household. They raised amazing, amazing siblings, and they maintain a great relationship. And I just say that because if there are any people who listen to this episode who aren't dog people, who are angry, they read that we had, you know, someone on to talk about pets or animals.

[A]

That's insane.

[C]

Or, or, or you're listening to this and you're like. And you had a list, too. Throw that list in the garbage. Because it doesn't matter there. It's all about the person you meet. Have an open mind. Live a better life.

[A]

Okay, here we go.

[C]

Dogs for life. Love, love, love, love animals. All right, look at me. I'm a change man.

[A]

You're a change man. That's just growth, baby. That just shows your growth. But I won't be. I won't be the negative Nancy. Just beating the out of you for those comments. I'm gonna take a little bit of a high road and say, hey, I appreciate your vulnerability in a topic that's hard to be vulnerable in.

[C]

Hey, I beat the out of myself. That's why I tell all the. All the listeners. Listeners. But it's a learning lesson. Just like a learning lesson that we take out of the podcast. Learning lesson. Throw the list out. Love the dogs.

[A]

It's a learning lesson. Throw the lists out. Be open to different things. And you might one day look back and Say that guy was wrong. Sounds like he was, but, you know, yeah, man. I mean, obviously I've always been a dog guy. We had a rescue growing up. My rescues growing up was. Was Mindy. My parents always had dogs. They have a cavalier Chloe. My brother's got a dog. And so obviously, like, it's awesome to have Teddy and to hear some of this stuff was really interesting. And as someone who is a pet owner, I was. I was shocked by a lot about it.

[C]

Can we. You just got Teddy back from his trainer. Can we talk a little bit about how amazing that's been? I mean, the videos of him on the golf cart like that, Those are. Come on. Those are the best, dude.

[A]

It's amazing. Like, he is so happy to be back. The training that they did was really, really good for reactivity. Nothing's perfect. He's not perfect, but he is in such a better place as far as reacting to people, to reacting to cars and moving objects. Like, it's a whole different dog. We're still working a little bit with other dogs. There's like, some that, you know, he'll. He'll bark at a little bit and some that he's not fazed by at all. But in general, he's, like, doing so well. I'm so happy he did it. He's in a better place. And as a result of that, I am. And everyone around us is so, like, it was the best investment I can make for a rescue who needed it. I mean, he was neglected, he was beaten, and he was about a week from being euthanized because of overcrowding in his shelter. So I don't know, it all feels. I feel so grateful for it all. And. And he's the man. You gotta meet him. You gotta come to Nashville.

[C]

Well, I think, I think we. We may be making that happen shortly. Stay tuned.

[A]

Let's make it happen.

[C]

Stay tuned, people.

[A]

Stay tuned.

[C]

I can't. I can't wait to meet Teddy. And I know how excited you were to get them back when we were together last week. But one thing I did want to make sure that I brought up because you pointed out in the episode was all of the tax laws and things that are out there that we can write off by being a dog owner, because I think that that is a money saving tip that we like to help our people with. And you were the one that was direct, directed to share that knowledge and the recap. So take it away.

[A]

Yeah. Here's what I'll say. First and foremost, if you have a CPA or you have anybody that's in the tax space, make sure you always talk to them before doing anything or claiming anything or anything of that nature. First and foremost, in 2025, if you have a service animal and medical expenses. So if your pet's a certified service animal that helps with a medical condition that you, you have, you may be able to deduct the costs associated with owning and then maintaining that animal. And those include expenses like purchase or adoption cost training, veterinarian care, food and grooming. And you can claim these expenses as medical costs, but they must be part of your total medical expenses. And they're also, the caveat is that it can't exceed 7.5% of your adjusted gross income. So it can't. That the amount that you're deducting can't exceed that. That. So if you have high medical expenses, this could be huge for a deduction. Especially as we talked about today, the cost of pet care has increased a lot. There's also a lot of pets, David. You know, we've had Doug the Pug on, we have some others coming down the line. But if pets are part of your business operations, you can also potentially bring set tax savings to yourself as well. So let's say your pet serves as like a guard dog for your business or is used in some kind of capacity for business purposes, maybe in marketing. The IRS might allow you to deduct related expenses to food and supplies, veterinarian bills, grooming and training. And then if you foster pets and, or you provide charitable contributions, those can be tax deductible if the fostering is through a registered 501C3, which we know now on this podcast is a non for profit organization. So if you have expenses and you're fostering through a non for profit connected to food, veterinary care, supplies, mileage for trips, et cetera, that's another write off. And then another one is like income generating pets. Like literally the pets that are on Instagram you can have deductions that can include food supplies, grooming and vet bills. So there's a lot of action. Things are, I mean, how crazy is it that there are some, there are some big, big, big pet accounts out there making millions and millions of dollars. It's, it's crazy. Actually, I think one of the best pet accounts is there's this Teddy, this guy who does Teddy, the Golden dude. You gotta check out his page. It is the most creative video work I've ever seen.

[C]

It's unbelievable that, I mean right there that just saving money because you know, and I feel like saving money and doing right by taking care of your. Of your pet is great. And those are just very, very important tips and tricks, and I want to know of those. Do you write anything off for yourself with Teddy? And secondly, is there anything that you learn from this where you're like, oh, I gotta do for Teddy right away.

[A]

I mean, he is a professional trained service dog now. So there's obviously expenses that I can capture from that. I'd love to get him to the place where he's trained and could like go into hospitals and, you know, especially like children's hospitals. That would be a dream. So we'll see. You know, honestly, I'm gonna look at what's out there and then I'll see the expenses. I'm gonna talk to my accountant and then see what we could do. But I do want to give a shot for out to Dr. Josie, who is. Takes care of Teddy, and I work with her and she comes and takes care of him whenever I need anything. Her services are absolutely incredible. She's. She's a rock star. Oh, yeah. Like it's, it's. She has the veterinary services that like, she'll come to my house. Like, she just looked at Teddy the day she came to the house. She'll bring medicine, etc. She's an absolute rock star. And she's just a great person, like badass, Just a cool person. But a question I got for you is, were there. Was there anything that really surprised you? Obviously the sourdough thing, but anything else?

[C]

Yeah, there. There was like, here's a question, like, if you had a daughter or a son, would you want them to go be in the veterinary field after the things that you heard? And I only asked that for two reasons. One, the. The instant answer is yes. If they have a love and passion for animals, it's very rewarding. Two things that caught me off guard. Obviously it seems like it's like the most amount of schooling that you can do in the medical field. And obviously the rate at which you're getting paid at the end isn't equal the one to, as she said, her human counterparts. That was shocking. Number two. And it makes perfect sense and you would never ever realize it unless you listen to the podcast the rates of suicide amongst veterinarians. I mean, that just kind of totally took me off guard. And when she explained it, it made perfect sense. So. So that's the question I have. What would your take be if your little tardic daughter, son in the future says, daddy, I want to Be a veterinarian. What are you going to say? Other than you can do whatever you want to do, Right?

[A]

No, I think the only reason to get into this field at this point is based on what I was just told in this interview, is impact or insane passion. You really want to make an impact for animals, and you're so passionate about. Other than that. If you take those two things away, which turns take those away in the animal space. Right, but we're just talking business here. It is. It's a tough field. I mean, it's very competitive. It's super expensive. It's hard to make money. Vets are not in the vet business to make money. You heard her say it yourself. It's just a hard profession. So I would be like, I don't know, like, unless you're just die hard about doing it, I don't think I would highly recommend it. Unless you're trying to make impact. You're totally in love with it. It seems like a tough profession.

[C]

Yeah, it's one of those things where, like, they say when they're eight, and then you just like, oh, that's great. And then hopefully when they're 13, you ask what they want to be. It's like, please don't say but. Okay, But. But of course. No, if you have, you know, I don't want to be the morbid person in here who doesn't like dogs, who had a list of. Of not liking dogs. And now I'm a dog owner. So I. You can. You can go full circle on that.

[A]

You can still be a dog owner. And I like dogs. Do you like dogs?

[C]

Yeah, no, I do. I do. I do. You don't believe me?

[A]

I'm not sold.

[C]

I don't think that I could ever. I personally, I don't think that I could ever live with a big dog. I also have a story.

[A]

Wait, why though?

[C]

Like, big dogs, Like, I'm just a little, like, I'm sure I would grow to love them. Like, because I'm saying that right now, like, all of a sudden I didn't. They were on my list, and now I live with one. And now I'm saying I couldn't live with a big dog. I probably would love living with a big dog, but the idea of, like, like them, like, ripping around and, like, knocking off shelves and tables and, like, hair everywhere and bringing mud in the house, like, that just me is like, oh, my God. That's a lot. Like, that's like, I look at, like a pet. Like, Bentley's a petty, like, Comes in my lap. It's like cute. I get to pet him. Like he like sleeps in the bed and it's like, it's like cute.

[A]

Yeah. I can't complain to someone who is a, a father. So I can't complain.

[C]

Yeah, that.

[A]

See that? And you can't compare the two. And I, I certainly can't compare the two if I've never had a child. But I could tell you, oh, it's a lot. It's a lot of work. Especially the type of breeds that Teddy is. Like, it requires a lot like this whole training. It does it. Patience and non stop training. Dude, it's over. Almost every action. It's like over and over, making sure that it's repetitive, repetitive. Better repetitive. Repetitive. But I, I mean, he, the things he does. Like, I've said it before and I'll just say it to say I truly can't tell you the things he does for me. Like, like me being with him now, I am so much happier. I feel so much like, I feel so less lonely. I feel like, I feel safer, dude. I just, it's like, I can't tell you what this dog does for me. It's crazy. And I mean it.

[C]

I believe it. And I, and I honestly can say with perspective now, like, thank God I had Bentley before I had a child, because they do prioritize something other than yourself and your selfish habits. And you see the joy and the. In the way that they show you love back. So you see all that and you feel all that. It motivates you to want to do the things that maybe you don't want to do. Maybe it's, you know, you know, take them for walks or sacrifice your time to give them attention or pick up their poop or deal with them when they're sick. Like, those are all things that when it does come to parenting a human, they do all come into play.

[A]

Yeah. 100.

[C]

Yeah. Love it.

[A]

100. Well, we're at that 15 minute mark. David, I appreciate your vulnerability. I know it's not easy to say these things. It's not easy to come out. I want to smack you in the face for saying you're not a dog guy, but, hey, that's who you are. And you're. You've learned to become one.

[C]

Oh, yeah. And, and you, and when you come.

[A]

Visit me, you better love on.

[C]

I appreciate that you are calling it vulnerability when you really want to call it like something else. Stupidity maybe, or, or egregiousness or something like that. But no, it's. You Know.

[A]

It's cat guy. I grew up.

[C]

I grew up with two cats. Yeah. Shout out.

[A]

Wow. You're such. Okay. So much shout out.

[C]

Sushi and pug, yo.

[A]

They never have to be like, an indoor cat, actually.

[C]

Never have to bathe them. You heard it here from her first. I mean, you never made themselves. Yeah, they're ultra clean. My cats were indoor, outdoor cats. When we left for a weekend, we'd leave them outside on Friday and come back Sunday, and they would just be outside the whole time.

[A]

Teddy's ultra clean. I mean, do you like. He gets grooming and you watch. You know, you get there.

[C]

It sounds like you got to send them to the spot spa. You got to give them the food.

[A]

I say owning a pet. And when we talk about finances, money, my God, it is not cheap. It is a very, very, very expensive thing. Especially when you have unexpected health expenses, which we talked about. The deduction like those.

[C]

You got to get Teddy some. Some health insurance there.

[A]

Yeah, I do. I actually do.

[C]

I'm actually shocked that you have all, like, doesn't have that.

[A]

I think it's because I've had so much going on. Like, that was on my list. I can't believe I fell through. Wow.

[C]

Yeah. We don't have health insurance for Bentley. Pet insurance.

[A]

Interesting pet.

[C]

Pet. Health insurance for Belly. He's getting old, too.

[A]

Yeah, but he's just such, like. Teddy's just such a wild man that, like. Yeah, he's a wild man. Like, he'll tear his ACL or whatever in two seconds. Like, he's just. He's a wild man. So anyway.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I can't wait for you to meet Teddy. He's gonna change me, too. Your perspective on big dogs. He's a badass.

[C]

I. It's not. It's not that I don't like big dogs. It's. I don't think I could own a big fair. I also. I also have a story. My. One of my. One of my best friends in seventh grade. His name is Brody Gower. He had a dog named T. Rex.

[A]

Love that name.

[C]

You can imagine how big this dog was.

[A]

Damn, I love the name T. Rex.

[C]

T. Rex jumped me from behind and tackled me to the ground and put a paw so deep in my face into the mud. That is why, truly, we've talked. We've had a lot of therapists on the show. We've talked a lot about childhood trauma. I have childhood trauma for big dogs, and it's because of T. Rex. And I was scared of dogs for a long Time.

[A]

Wow. Interesting. That's a real thing.

[C]

My mom, my mom is terrified of dogs. My mom can't even go to my father in law's place because he's the two dog big dogs that jump on you. My mom can't even go there for dinner anymore. Yeah, it's really sad. So that's kind of where I got it from. I inherited it and then I experienced it myself and so then I was like all dogs are written off. And then Bentley's showing me love. And I, I do love like I do love dogs. I just don't think I could own a big one until I owned a big one. I probably love it, but I think.

[A]

That'S like, well again that makes so much more sense. Like if there's a childhood trauma connected to it. That makes so much more sense.

[C]

Yeah. Hopefully people were listening this far through so they can hear my comment at the 3 minute mark. Doesn't it now makes a little more sense.

[A]

Sounds okay. I love it. Yeah.

[C]

That's actually a test for our listeners.

[A]

Let's see, let's see if they made it. If they did make it. I got some stuff to give away cuz I'm in a move right now. So make sure you give us a five star review. Let us know your biggest takeaway from this episode. And I got some stuff to give away that we will give away next week on the recap. David, thank you for tuning in to this episode and thank you for recapping with me. Anything before we wrap.

[C]

Happy Father's Day to all the followers out there. Sunday, treat your fathers. Treat him. Treat them out there. There. Say I love you. Get them a nice gift. Tell them what you love most about them. Tell them your favorite memory of them. Happy Father's Day.

[A]

Happy Father's Day. Perfectly said. And that Monday we are following it with Dale Tardick, 65th. So a lot of action, good stuff ahead. Next recap we'll touch on some personal stuff because there's been a lot of optic. Maybe David, just maybe we do like a little halfway tell all or something. Oh, you know what, you know, then a lot of action.

[C]

You know, is it, it almost is halfway.

[A]

I think we, maybe we do that in July.

[C]

I think it, I think it just did. I think the halfway point just passed. Yeah. June 21st. Longest day of the year coming up. Summer sold us.

[A]

Didn't know that.

[C]

Yeah, I read books actually don't read books.

[A]

There's that. Yeah, we know that on this. For anybody that listens to this podcast knows you don't read books. You're all right. Thank you. But I love you. All right. Thank you for tuning to another episode of Trading Secrets. Fun you can't afford to miss.

[B]

And now a next level moment from AT&T business. Say you've sent out a gigantic shipment.

[C]

Of pillows and they need to be there in time for International Sleep day. You've got AT and T5G so you're.

[B]

Fully confident, but the vendor isn't responding. And International Sleep Day is tomorrow. Luckily, AT&T 5G lets you deal with any issues with ease, so the pillows will get delivered and everyone can sleep soundly, especially you. ATT 5G requires a compatible plan and device coverage not available everywhere. Learn [e-mail] 5GNET Network.

[A]

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