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Trading Secrets
264. Jake Cohen: From the Culinary Institute of America to best-selling cookbook author, the true BTS of the culinary industry, his unconventional career path, & the shocking $$$ behind it all
01:30:17
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Podcast Host (Ad Voice)
Foreign.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. This is the free market trading segment and I got the one and only the curious Canadian with me. So do a little banter here before we ring in the bell with the one and only Jake Cohen, one of the best chefs out there with some of the best recipes that does collaborations with some of the biggest celebrities. So if you are a foodie, if you are so curious about the ins and out of the industry, from what dishwashers make to what food reviews and editorials look like, to how someone can build and make the best cookbooks in the entire planet, New York Times bestseller All things food and chef creation coming up here. But a little update from my personal life. I was actually in LA for a little bit, which is a great time. Had the best time there. Had a couple activations in Vegas for F1, and now actually I'll be in Charlotte for Thanksgiving. So that's, that's a fun little update on my end. And David, you'll be in Rochester.
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David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
I'm in Rochester. Happy Thanksgiving to you. Happy Thanksgiving to all of our listeners. But before we talk about Jakey Boy, you, you were in la. You mentioned it. Dancing with the Stars. It's all over the place. I saw you front row, may I add, right behind the judges. That minty green. What is that suede suit popping in our eyeballs? I was loving it. Give us some ins and out. Is it electric in the ballroom? Because you've been in the ballroom a bunch before. Is it change? Does it evolve? Is it leveling up? Give the people a little bit of the insights? Jay, come on.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
I gotta say, I've been to a Bills game plenty of times. Right. And I will tell you that I've been in that ballroom several times too. I've never heard the crowd that loud for the pros and of course for the stars like it was. It felt like at times you had a football game with the roar of the crowd. It was absolutely unbelievable and incredible. I have made a change in my prediction going to this week. We have the finale this week. If you heard this after the finale, that means that you're listening after Tuesday and this episode comes out Monday. My prediction, I thought Robert Irwin was 100% going to win it. I'm going to make a last minute change up and I'm gonna say Alex Earl wins. David, what's your prediction?
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David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
It's been Alex Earl from the start. It's still Alex Earl. Let's not forget if you rewind on these pod on our podcast, I first Sent Jay Alex Earl when she had 30,000 on TikTok. And I said, jay, this girl's an upcoming star and she continues to just evolve and impress. And all the dancers are incredible. I could see Robert winning though. But I got to stick with my girl Alex. I think that she's going to take the cake. But it is peaking interests from a lot of different people. I think they said the semifinal was the most watched season in seven years and. Or most watched episode, sorry, the semifinals in seven years. So I think people are. And there's no clear cut winner this year. I think there's always been a little bit of a clear cut winner. I don't think there is this year. So I, I will be tuning in to the, to the finale.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
We talk numbers on this podcast. Over 7 million active viewers for the semifinal, which absolutely shredded the. The record history book for quite some time. And I think when you talk about winners, the real winner has been Dancing with the Stars. I mean, the show is on fire. All the pros are absolutely killing it in all areas of their career right now. It's one of the hottest shows. And the big question is what comes next? What do you do next with this momentum? When you get stars like Alex Earl and Ro Irwin on the podcast, we'll see. But I don't know. What do you think, David, before we ring in the bell?
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David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
Well, I think that they're in a good place. You know, I think getting Charlie d' Amelio on was massive for that. You know, I don't think there's Alex Earl if Charlie d' Amelio doesn't come. I mean, you have the number one most followed Tick tock. Getting this new generation on. Now you have the Alex Earls who are. Who one day would dream of being the Charlie d' Amelios coming on and who's the next Alex Earl that's coming on that's also getting new eyeballs, new viewers, electrifying the dance floor. You know, they do an amazing job with their casting from, from getting so many different demographics out there. And you know, you got to give it to the pros because they put them through boot camp and you got to give to these contestants. I mean, that is everyone that's ever been on this podcast and said that's the hardest job they've ever had is Dancing with the Stars. So it'll be electric. I think. I think they're in a good spot.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
It's crazy. And in the markets, there's a lot of movement right now. We're starting to see the market shift back a little bit. You even saw bitcoin dip below $90,000 per coin. We are expecting interest rate to probably be pulled back here coming soon. So keep that on the horizon. But most importantly, this is the quarter. This is the month that most people are overspending. So you cannot manage your money if you don't know where it's going. Pull out the credit card statement, see where the cash is flowing, minimize expenses if you can this holiday season and most importantly, make sure all your bet bad debt is paid down. I've been doing a lot of financial reviews with some friends and I'll tell you where people I think are struggling the most right now is their retirement. The cost of living is so high that they are not properly prepared for retirement and savings. And when you benchmark where they're at from a retirement perspective, they are behind. And maybe David will do one one episode where we break into it. Before I kick it back to you, David, everyone here, go give us five stars. I have gift cards to give away. I got Wingstop gift cards. I got raising cane gift cards and a few others. We are going to give those away next episode in the recap. But go give us five stars and let us know. David and I are doing a lot of strategy going into 2026. We're thinking about some big changes, guest type of format, things we want to do. So go give us a review. Let us know what you want to see out of us, but make sure you give us five stars and I have some gift cards to give away. David, anything before we ring in the bell?
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David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
I just got to say, you do these intros, I tune in. People are listening what you just said. Your little talk about inflation and bills and holiday season and making sure you know where your money's going. I just got whacked with the biggest RG&E bill of all time. And for those people who don't know, that's Rochester Gas and Electric. I called in, I was ranting, I was raving. I was trying to find out why I. I learned something new. I didn't know that energy. The energy payment was done off of basically a stock price. It changes every single day. What we're paying for energy. I had no idea.
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Yeah.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
And most of them are done off projection.
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David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
Yeah.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
It's like it's a. It's an estimated projection of what you will use based on your previous use and it connects in price points that are ever changing.
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David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
But I called and I said, how do I get this bill down? And she said, well, you can do daytime, nighttime billing and, or you can do the flat rate. The flat rate was eight and a half seconds. And then the she goes, well, if you do the daytime, nighttime, day is 11, 11 cents and then the nighttime is seven and a half cents. But yesterday it fluctuates. It's all done off the market. So it's like a moving target. I'm paying something different for energy every single day. It blew my mind.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
It's crazy. We're living in a world right now where there are many people thriving and there are many people really struggling and it's a really interesting time. We've never seen. I literally just talked to a big wealth advisor recently. He's like, I've never seen a more disconnect with the highs of where the stock market's trading and how many people are benefiting off that. But where we're seeing some of the economic indicators of the actual strength of the economy. So there's a lot happening which does connect to different topics and things we could be discussing on our Trading Secrets podcast, Instagram and of course on this podcast. But for right now, go give us five stars. You'll be entered to win a gift card. Give us any ideas, themes and or guests and we have a lot to cover. But enough of us. Let's ring in the opening bell with the one and only Jake Cohen. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today we are joined by best selling author, chef and digital creator Jake Cohen. Jake has become one of the most recognizable culinary voices of his generation, building an empire at the intersection of food culture and social media. Jake has used his creativity to turn recipes into a thriving brand. His cookbooks, Jewish I Could Nosh and his recent release Dinner Party Animal became instant bestsellers, earning praise for blending nostalgia with modern flavor and for celebrating heritage beyond food. Jake is a master of brand strategy. Through his Wake and Jake platform, he's launched partnerships with major brands, developed original media content and positioned himself as a culinary entrepreneur, redefining what it means to build a kitchen brand in the digital age. Jake we're going to get into all things business, behind the cookbooks, the economics of social media, what it takes to turn storytelling and authenticity into long term success. We appreciate being on Trading Secrets. It's been a, we've been trying for a while now.
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
I love it.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
We have people on our team that are massive fans of you.
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Amazing.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
So like, anytime your name has come up, they're like, when is it happening? When is it happening? And I do have some you know, we usually get into business conversation, but I got some fun questions from them at least.
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Let's do it.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
All right. Well, I would say, too, when I was going over all your stuff, I'd say you're kind of like living the dream here, right? Like, you. You're hosting a TV show, you have cookbooks that are killing it, you're doing social media collaborations with some of the biggest celebrities out there, all with, like, your interest from day one. So many people have come on this podcast and they pivot or they change their direction. You studied at Culinary Institute of America, you worked in restaurants, and then you got to where you are today. Tell me about your career track and kind of like the financial, maybe successes or burdens and what life was like before this all took off.
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Yeah, I mean, listen, I think that's. That's like the number one thing that happens all the time is people assume. It's like, oh, how'd you fall into this, this job? Because so often it is a pivot for many people who kind of find this world as a result of unhappiness in a traditional route. I never went a traditional route. I always knew this was always the plan, and I just really set myself up for success. I only applied to one college in high school, and that was the Culinary Institute of America. There was no backup. It was just, I'm going to do it, so I'm going to do it exactly how I should be, which is kind of full throttle best education I could imagine. When it came time to, like, work in restaurants, I was like, okay, let's go to a three Michelin star restaurant. Let's get the best kind of skill set for a foundation. I never wanted to have that, like, chef's table experience of owning and running a crazy restaurant, but I knew that I needed to really master a craft. I'm still mastering a craft, but on that journey, I never kind of shied away from challenge.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
I remember growing up, like, when I was young, I wanted to be a professional hockey player, like a professional poker player. That was my dream. When you were in, like, elementary, middle school, and I know you mentioned high school, but, like, even younger, did you know for sure you were going to be in the food business?
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
No, I think. I think a lot of it. And we're going to this. I think it ties in. This is like a through line throughout my life, my career, both personal, romantic, professional. Is this idea of really taking the time to undo a lot of the conditioning that our families, our society has on us in terms of what we're expected to do or what the actual options for careers or for lifestyles can be. And for myself, it really wasn't until high school where I had really leaned into cooking as a passion and as a hobby. And I finally gave myself permission to explore what that would look like. Giving my totality of education profession into a passion versus going to medical school or following in the footsteps of really, I don't know. There's a big conversation around different immigrant cultures and how there are these typically. These shifts of, like, when you look at, like, Jewish Americans, like, when we first came, there was such a. An emphasis on academia and journalism and a lot of these professions. And then eventually it shifted into doctor, banker, lawyer.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Yep. And my. My grandfather always said he wanted to be. He's like, I wanted to be an actor. I wanted to be a performer. My. His grandfather, who was Jewish, of course, was like, you are going to be a doctor, a banker, or a lawyer. And that was his. That was his only option.
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And I think for myself, you know, I don't know. I think the being. I think there is an element of being gay helps because you're already kind of breaking one mold of the. And it's not the norm, but, like, the majority and the societal kind of world that you're kind of raised in to expect. And once you break one, then all of a sudden it's just. It's much easier to be like, all right, well, let's just really have fun with this.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Let's shatter those walls down. Yeah. The first book I wrote is called the Restart Roadmap. It's all about breaking the. The blueprint. Because I think that especially with your career in all areas of life, but, like, society puts you down what this blueprint should be, and if you fall right into it, you could be trapped for an entirety. I was trapped for about 10 years into it. You've taught. You're talking a little bit about kind of how you broke the mold in all areas of your life, personal life, professional life. Did. How early in life did you kind of start breaking that mold? Like, when I had my brother on, I mean, we talked about when he came out, and it was like a senior year in high school. He came out because my mom just went up to him, was like, listen. Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck. Like, talk to me here. So he was kind of pushing the corner. It sounds like you were always at the forefront of, like, just being a leader in what you knew you wanted. Irregardless of what other people wanted. Was that the case early on? Were you always very vocal and were you always funny enough?
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
I came to terms with wanting to go to culinary school before I came to terms with being gay.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Oh, interesting.
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And I think one probably helped the other when I really think about it. And it ties in so beautifully to like building a brand, which is authenticity is the number one thing for not only success, but for sustainability. So in terms of you can build up your idea of how you want to present to the world what is the narrative you're telling. But if you're playing a role that's not true to yourself, it is the most exhausting thing. In the same way of like not being true to yourself when it comes to anything, when it comes to identity, the same thing is professionally. So if you are in a job that you're doing just because it's what was expected of you and you hate it, it starts to manifest in every aspect of your life. And so that's something that I've constantly been really like laser focused on giving deep introspection on what do I love, what do I not love about every thing I do? And so when I think professionally, I went to restaurants. First one was, was Danielle, this three Michelin star restaurant uptown, which was incredible.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Was this your first job out of culinary institution?
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
This was like in between your first and your second year, you have to take about nine months off and just go work.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Okay.
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
I think it's less, but the way it worked is overlapped like summer vacation. So I ended up extending and taking like a nice.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Is that, is that okay? So like I like. Let's talk about the banking world for a second. Yeah. Like when you go to like UPenn or you go to Ivy League, like it's very easy to end up at like a Goldman Sachs. Right. When you're at Culinary Institute of America. Is it, is it relatively easy to end up at a Michelin? Because that's like, it seems that's next to impossible for me.
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
No, no, it's very common because you're doing, you're at the, the, the real bottom, bottom of the barrel when it comes to like what you're doing and, and the, the knowledge that you pick up is incredible. It's so funny because the pay is so bad. We're kind of gone from the, the days of. Well, I'll get to that in a second. But like you're making minimum wage, but.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
I'm working like insane hours. Yeah.
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
So like time and a half. It's Like I was pulling in money as a 18 year old that like could use it. That being said, when I left my last year of college, I had a pretty light workload. And so I started working part time at ABC Kitchen here in Manhattan. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
I've been there with my brother actually. Well, we went to ABC V, of course, of course.
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
This was before V opened. And it's actually funny enough, I was a vegetarian for like a decade from 8 to 18, and I gave it up before culinary school to really kind of just get the most out of my education. And so I started working at ABC Kitchen kind of with the mentality I knew V was in the pipeline of coming. And I was like, great, I'm gonna work for one of the coolest restaurant groups in the city that's about to open one of the coolest vegetarian spots in the city. And so this is where I'm gonna set myself up. And so again, I wasn't even a vegetarian at the time. I just, it was such a crucial part to, I don't know, so much of my childhood. And I was working at, in the, in the restaurant and I pretty much just had the realization of like, this was never my dream. And the second you do that kind of exercise and recognize it, it's like, okay, amazing, so what next? And it's always been what next for me. And in this case I knew the sphere that I'm in right now was always the plan, it was always the end goal. I just didn't know how I was going to get there. And I kind of like everything is kind of an exercise in faith. And I'm big on faith in a, even in a non denominational way. It's such a crucial part of energy in the world and manifestation, which I'm big on. But I took an unpaid internship at this food magazine. Really this was still at the height of print media and it was Sever magazine and it was this like crazy intensive internship that so many people in the industry did.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
And how old are you at this point?
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
I am 20. Out of school, out of school, 20 years old. I didn't like, we'd have to go, I'd have to send another intern to pick up liquor. Cause I didn't even, I wasn't even 21 yet. And I pretty much just put my head down, made sure I was friendly. Whenever there was an opportunity for like a tiny little blurb in the magazine, I would like volunteer to start getting bylines and print. Eventually they hired me on as a freelancer, so I just never left. And then eventually made it onto the masthead as a staff member for the magazine.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Interesting. When you're a staff member, like what exactly in a role like that, what do you do and what can you earn in a spot like that?
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Great, great question. So I was testing all the recipes that go into the magazine. So I was doing recipe development, recipe adaptations, in addition to just like random things like, just like kind of like cooking events that we would do at the magazine or cooking for all the photo shoots for the pictures that were not on site. And I'll never forget, because I was making, I was unpaid. And then there was the big Conde Nast lawsuit. And so they had to start paying us minimum wage. And then when I was hired on as a freelancer, I was making $8 an hour, which eventually I got a raise to $10 an hour. And then when I got the job offer, it was non negotiable. It was a take it or leave it, 30 grand annually.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Did you think, when you got that job offer, did you ever think about, like, maybe I should go back to the restaurant industry? Like, I can, I can.
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
I was making. I was making $10 an hour as a line cook. It's not like that. There were, there was. And again, this has changed a lot. This is 2015. So this is a different. A different world.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Yeah. 10 years ago.
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
I will say, the thing that was so wild to me in hindsight is that the test kitchen manager at the time.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Yeah.
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Who was a nightmare. And I hope she's listening because I honestly, I feel so bad for her as a person. Like, what a sad, sad person. She was in her mid-30s and she had negotiated a pay bump for herself. And then that's when I realized that she was actually making 30 grand was her salary before I got hired on.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
And this is at abc. This is like a.
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
No, no. This is at the magazine.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Oh, at the magazine.
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
This is an editorial. Which again, is not crazy. The editorial world is infamous for these kinds of roles where you're making 20, 30 grand for that. Has it changed?
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Yes, of course.
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Is it still incredibly much a trade off for the actual financial stability of a job versus the opportunity of the kind of platform it gives you?
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Yeah.
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
So I always knew, I always knew that I had this. And I did whatever it took to financially make it. I was working. I was working Monday through Friday at the magazine, Saturday and Sunday at a spin studio in Murray Hill because I was able to get a free membership. So that's the only way I could have A gym membership and that was also extra cash. At one point my sister was transferring schools to Manhattan and my mother called me and she goes, hey, if you let your sister move in with you because my apartment was much closer to her to the campus versus where the dorms were, she's like, I'll let you take her dorm money and put it towards your rent.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Wow.
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
I said yes. It was a 400 square foot studio, bunk beds.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Literally.
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
She threw out my couch and put in, I was in a full bed and she moved in a queen size pull out.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Wow.
- [20:53]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And we did that for a bit. Interesting. You just, you do what you have to do and it wasn't without help and it wasn't without support from my family and I would do whatever I would like do like random private chef odd jobs or I don't know, whatever it took to keep it going to.
- [21:08]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
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- [22:44]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Always.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Always no. Do you got?
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
In my world there's something behind the.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Scenes like you put like hairspray on.
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
There or sometimes some pam Some, like, actual spray, but, like, nothing. Nothing inedible. Okay, that is not the case for, like, commercial shoots.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Sure, that makes sense.
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
That is when things get, like, doctored. But in editorial, I would say in every experience I've had, it's just been actual food. And this is working in editorial for print and digital for a decade plus three cookbooks, like, everything has never been doctored to that degree.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Another question I got for you is you come up with the recipes, you taste the recipes. Did you ever do reviews on restaurants when you worked for them?
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
At one point. So in my trajectory at one point, that's actually. This is a great segue. So I ended up. Throughout my time at Savur, I knew social media was just starting, and they had built up a good platform on their own Instagram for the magazine. And I took as many opportunities as I could to be featured on it, to start to build up my own following and, like, create my own Instagram page for myself. Just my name to do that.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
And what year is this?
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
This is 2015.
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Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Oh, wow.
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
This is. Yeah, 2015. And I started to build up tiny following. We're talking, like 15,000 followers. But. But this was the very beginning of food content on social. The Internet on social. And I kind of leveraged that early on. So I was at the magazine for two years. And then there was a job opening at this website called Tasting Table, which was one of the forefront digital media publications. And it was an email newsletter, one of the largest, other than BuzzFeed, had the largest Facebook presence. And so it was doing just really cool content. And I applied to be their food editor, which was kind of a. It was a stretch for me. And I've always kind of done that where I've gone out for jobs that I'm like, they're kind of like, it's a thumb. So they hired. They hired me at 22 to run the test kitchen and be the food editor. And it was. I mean, listen, I got it.
- [24:45]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Wait, what is that? What is a test kitchen? Like, what is it?
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Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
I have a physical test kitchen. A physical kitchen in which I'm developing all the recipes, testing all the recipes, leading all the photo shoots for the magazine, for the magazine, or in this.
- [24:56]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Case, you really put in your work for your cookbooks. See how this all pieces together, though.
- [25:00]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Exactly. And it is one of the most incredible things, is when you can, every step of the way, take something away. What did I love from this? What did I learn from this? What did I not like from this? That I want no More of. And then you start to continue down a pathway. I always say life is like Plinko. You just have to drop a bunch of the chips and see where they fall. And. And that's what I learned from this experience. It ended up being this interesting realm because I ended up getting laid off with the majority of the editorial staff because there was this huge shift in, I would say, 2017, when it came to the whole realm of food media and media in general. When it came to print. I mean, we're still seeing crazy layoffs in print constantly in addition to digital.
- [25:49]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Interesting.
- [25:50]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And so. So the majority of the staff got laid off, and I took some time, and then I was like, what am I gonna do? And I did freelance for a hot second, which was my first kind of taste of working for myself.
- [26:03]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Okay.
- [26:04]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And then the craziest job opening came up that I applied for, which was to be the Restaurant critic for TimeOut New York.
- [26:11]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Interesting.
- [26:12]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And I ended up getting the job. And I spent a year being the critic for Time out in New York.
- [26:17]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
So as a restaurant critic, like, talk to me about what you're paid, and then you obviously get to expense all your meals. Right, Right.
- [26:23]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Yes, I did. I had a good expense budget when I got hired as the food editor. I got. I was making 45 grand.
- [26:28]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Okay.
- [26:28]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And I knew that was way under market for what a food editor should be paid.
- [26:34]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Yeah.
- [26:34]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
But I was just so. I so needed to get out of that magazine and be in the neck. I needed to level up.
- [26:39]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Sure.
- [26:40]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
That I. I was like, let's do it.
- [26:41]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
You took the reduction in pay, knowing.
- [26:43]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
The experience wasn't a reduction in pay. It was still a 50% increase in pay. But still I knew.
- [26:48]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
A reduction of what you said. The market value.
- [26:49]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Exactly.
- [26:50]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Yeah.
- [26:51]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And then from there, after a year, I ended up getting a 15k salary bump to 60k, which is. The fact that that happened was also one of those things. I was like, wow, I really undersold myself if they're willing to just bump me up.
- [27:03]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Did you negotiate or did they bump you up?
- [27:06]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
They knew that I came into this, and I told my boss. I was like, you know, there's going to have to be a significant increase to market value.
- [27:14]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Interesting.
- [27:15]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And they knew it. So they came appropriate and they came with a number. Could I have probably negotiated more? Yeah. But they came at. They came with such an increase that I was like, okay, we're good. We're good for another year.
- [27:26]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
33%. He's getting 33% increase.
- [27:28]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
We're good.
- [27:29]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
For another year.
- [27:29]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [27:30]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And then I think when I went to timeout, I. I really negotiated, not that much more. I think I went up to 75.
- [27:36]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Because to me, that feels like a dream job. Like getting paid to go to restaurants to review. And now you're making the most money that you're making.
- [27:43]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Is it. You would think. It wasn't for me. Why? Because I wasn't cooking.
- [27:47]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Ah.
- [27:47]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And it was a great exercise in seeing, like, okay. The workload was more than hand. Like, it was so, like, it was easy. It was easy.
- [27:58]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
I mean, what's your workload as a restaurant critic?
- [27:59]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
I mean, again, I was running the whole section of the magazine, so I had an assistant editor or an associate editor underneath me. And we are both doing, like, the main reviews, the bar reviews, the different little pieces of magazine, in addition to all the digital stuff. So, like, all the roundups of best whatever in Manhattan, in Queens and whatever, which, again, is a lot to be doing for even two people. So a lot of it's delegated to experts in, like, freelancers that really kind of can focus on that. I will say it was exhausting. You actually get really sick of eating out.
- [28:34]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
So were you eating out every night?
- [28:35]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
No. No. But again, you have to do, like, one crazy meal a week minimum. Typically two. Plus you have to just be going all out to, like, you get invited to a bunch of things that you have to keep going to see. Like, what are the cool spots in the city? What are the cool new dishes in the city? What are the viral things? Like, everything was kind of constant, and I wasn't cooking.
- [28:56]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Do you. That's a really interesting take. Is there anything. Do the restaurant owners know you're a critic or no?
- [29:01]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
I mean, sometimes yes, sometimes no. I wouldn't use my name for that. I mean, occasionally you would. And we're in a world now where everything is pretty obvious.
- [29:11]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Okay, so what are things that give the people that are listening right now, none of us are restaurant critics, but, like, everyone is a critic. What are things that you think we should look for, especially as the price of restaurants have gone up, like, 40% in the last five years or so? So, like, what are some things we should look at, given that you were a critic?
- [29:26]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
You know, and that's the. The. The main thing about New York. And I. I'm like a piece of native New Yorker who, like, truly thinks we're in the center of the universe by it. Good is bad in New York.
- [29:38]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
That's true.
- [29:38]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And so it's like, if something's just good. It's like I would rather go to Chipotle or Sweetgreen because for my money's worth, a sweet green salad and chipotle burrito never disappoints me. And it's a good price point versus going to a restaurant and spending a crazy amount of money for like a mid meal or even just like a good meal. Like the reason that you're going to a restaurant is for an elevated experience. So that means the hospitality, that means the food itself has to not only taste good, tasting good is the minimum. It also has to be something that's either the best version of what it is or an inventive version of what it is. Or offer you like, what's the vibe you're going for? Are you looking for comfort? Are you looking for celebration and a little bit more of an ornate experience? Are you looking for really, it has to be pinpointed to what are you walking in to achieve. And. And I will pay any price if it really hits it out of the park of what I'm coming there for. I think of like a lot. The craziest meal I've ever had was like Alinea in Chicago.
- [30:45]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
I was just gonna reference Alinea.
- [30:46]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Yeah.
- [30:47]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
You know how you said you started at Alinea? I have a buddy up. Shout him out. Trevor Mooney. He works in finance full time Monday to Friday. And he works on the weekend at Alinea. And he started at as just like a. I don't know what you call it. Just like grade one behind the kitchen. Just cause he's obsessed with food of like. He's like, I can't make a career out of it. And now he's been like moved up, moved up, moved up. And he's like doing really well. But on the weekends he literally works. It's like 30 hours. He works the entire weekend. Like he doesn't stop. And he works at Aline.
- [31:16]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
A choice.
- [31:16]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
But he's loving. He's been doing it for years anyway. But Aline is one of your favorite experiences.
- [31:20]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Yeah. And it was the most exp. One of the most expensive meals.
- [31:23]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
How much was that meal?
- [31:24]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
I think it was 700 a person. Wow.
- [31:26]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
What's the most overrated meal you've had in New York?
- [31:29]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
So there's so many. It's kind of crazy.
- [31:31]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Yeah. Because there are so many social media marketing generated actually vibe type anything that's.
- [31:37]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
A hot spot or a vibe. I'm not looking for a scene. I'm just not. It's just not for me.
- [31:42]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Give me A couple that are overrated, you know?
- [31:46]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And here's my biggest takeaway from working a timeout is you realize the power of your word. And I actually don't do that publicly.
- [31:54]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Interesting.
- [31:54]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
I don't slander places.
- [31:56]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Okay, how about, like, some of the best restaurants you've gone to in New York?
- [32:00]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
I love King Steakhouse. It is still, like, one of my favorite New York experiences. It's, like, where my family goes for, like, celebrations and stuff. The chef from ABC Kitchen went and opened Loring Place on 8th street, which is one of my favorite spots. I'm very close with Mike Solomonov, so I love Lazer Wolf in Brooklyn. I'll say I'm more of, like, a lady who lunches. So I like Emma. I'm like a midday excursion kind of person. So I love, like, even, like, my favorite bakery is Hani's in the East Village. We're actually right over here.
- [32:30]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
And.
- [32:31]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And it's where I have many of my meetings. I love to go to Cafe Pana for affogato sundaes, and I just set that up as the baseline. And then from there, I love a new experience. I love a new meal. I love a new thing. I love Cote, the Korean Barbecue Steakhouse. Really exceptional. That's probably, like, one of my. I would say, in terms of the fancy, that's where I tend to go fancy.
- [32:55]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Okay. For listeners here, we're always looking for value. So think about this answer as it relates to the entire United States. States. When you're going out to dinner and you're trying to. Like you said, you. You know, you're paying more, you're paying for experience, but there's all the items on the menu. Where are you getting your best bang for your buck? When all. I mean, there's. Whether it's pasta, it's sushi, it's the meats. Like, where are you saying you are actually getting overcharged here? Like, stay away from maybe these menu items. You're probably getting pretty good value here, really.
- [33:24]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And. And this is. And it's. It has actually nothing to do with the. The item itself. It has to do in my head. And this is something where you start to think of it as, like, what's the labor cost? Because labor is the main difference of. Because it's. Would I be better off making this at home or should I be going out?
- [33:43]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Interesting.
- [33:44]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And so when you think about some of the price you pay, and you would think, like, oh, there's so much more of a upcharge at a steakhouse on A steak. But, but do you really know how to cook a steak like that at home?
- [33:56]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Do you have that? Do you have all those things when.
- [33:58]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
You spend the amount of money you do on like penne alla vodka at an Italian restaurant and that's something that you can easily do at home. That's in my head at least how I think of it that way.
- [34:08]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
I like it. The labor factor. I've never thought of it. I'm gonna start thinking about it.
- [34:12]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
So again, it's a big thing when it comes to sushi. It's why sushi can be exorbitant. I'll still pay it. That being said, I'm not necessarily looking for this wild omakase versus going to like, like Kazunori and getting like a bunch of hand rolls. Rolls, yeah, that's fine. I'm also not above like I love high end grocery store sushi. Like Butterfield Market on the Upper east side. It's like Jewish erewhon. I go there constantly. It is, I would say it is not cheap. The quality is exceptional. It is one of my favorite places in the city. Their sushi is so good and it's like it's just not, not so pretentious and it's very casual and that's what.
- [34:50]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
I want when it comes to my health. Here's my motto. The more information I could get, the better. The more insight I can give, the more I can do for my body. And routine physicals often skip so many of the parts and information that could be helpful for you. That's why I use Function. What is Function? Well, I chose Function because it's the health platform that gives me data that most people will never get and the insights to start actually doing something about it. Inside function, you get access to test over a hundred plus biomarkers from hormones to toxins to markers of heart health, inflammation and stress. And for an additional fee you can also get access to MRI and chest CT scans. The other thing too is you can get information that could then allow you to make changes as far as maybe that your vitamin D levels need to be higher or that you need more zinc or that you might have a high sensitivity activity to vitamin C. It just provides more information that's going to allow you to better prepare your body, especially as we go into winter season. So you can learn more about joining function using my link. It is a 360 view to see what's happening in your body. And my first 1000 listeners are going to get a hundred dollar credit toward their membership. Just go to functionhealth.com or use code Trading Secrets100 and you can sign up for your own health. Check it out. All right, good. Trading secrets from someone that's been in all areas of the business. We're going to get to the multi millions of followers of social media, the TV show, all that in a second. Before we jump past, I have a couple rapid fire questions from one of our big fans that works at Trading Secrets, Blake. These are coming directly from her and let's just rip them fast. When you're too tired to cook, what are you ordering? What's your go to order in?
- [36:44]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
It's chicken fingers. It's I. It's this place. It's this like chicken shop on the Upper west side. Wow. Chirping chicken. And I get, I get a thing.
- [36:52]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Of junk em into anything like sauces.
- [36:54]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
I'm a barbecue sauce boy, but I get a thing of chicken fingers and a thing of lentil soup.
- [36:58]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Okay.
- [36:59]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And that's it.
- [36:59]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Boom, boom. Chicken fingers. What celebrity would you most want to cook dinner for? We know you've cooked with a lot of them, but would you want to cook dinner for that you haven't yet with?
- [37:06]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And it's going to happen. And I've been saying this on my entire press tour because it's just like the more you put it out into the universe, I'm only one degree away from her, so it's going to happen. It's Fran Drescher.
- [37:14]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Okay, there you go.
- [37:15]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Yeah, Big nanny.
- [37:16]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
There you go. Make it happen. What's one kitchen tool you can't live without?
- [37:19]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
A scale. I think that's the one thing that's missing from everyone's kitchen.
- [37:22]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Wow. Yeah.
- [37:23]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
I think it's so cheap. And it's the secret to all baking is measuring your flour by grams.
- [37:29]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
That means you gotta follow the recipes very tight. Who in the food world inspires you most this moment right now?
- [37:34]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Oh, that's a great, great question. I'm gonna say Martha Stewart because. And then this. It was one of those things where I think she has continued to see, like, brand evolving. We've seen her brand evolve in such a way that I find so inspiring. And I also had like the privilege of going to shoot her show up at her house in Bedford. And I had such a positive experience with her and she has such a positive response to me that I found, I just found it incredibly, incredibly energizing.
- [38:04]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Interesting. In the food creator space on social media. What is a trend right now that you see you like and you're toward Your kind of gravitational. I see you smashing some. You and Benny Blanco are like, smashing some shit.
- [38:16]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Smashing cucumbers.
- [38:17]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Cucumbers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A trend. Smash your food.
- [38:20]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
No, no. But again, in that. And actually there is the perfect thing for that. We're seeing these little mini universes of. And what I mean by that is Benny is a really close friend of mine. It's not like I'm just going to, like, my most famous person I know and being like, hey, will you help me do this?
- [38:37]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
We're good friends.
- [38:38]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And as a result of him being my friend, he wants to help support my dreams in the same way that, like, when he had a cookbook coming out, I was like, great. I moderated his Philly spot. We threw like a bar mitzvah at Zahav in Philly, and we, like, threw it into a crazy party. And I just baked the challahs for his wedding. I'm just like, you show up for your friends in ways. And what we're starting to see is the crossovers of your favorites, hanging out with your favorites in these parasocial relationships online. We need more of that because what it does is it actually creates the best kind of content because it's more organic. These are people that actually like each other. You can kind of tell when someone's.
- [39:14]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Just, let's go collab and get out and never talk again.
- [39:16]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Actually, it's one of my things. And people get so weird about it because I. Based on this background of experience, like a formal training and experience in media and editorial, as well as a savvy when it comes to social, I do kind of cross. I'm in the Venn diagram of, like, chefs and influencers. I fall right in the middle. And so a lot of my. A lot of my community are in either one or the other. And it's hard with a lot of influencers that reach out to me, like, hey, I'm coming to town. I want to do a video with you. And my response is, I don't know you. We can get coffee. I would love to meet you, but I actually don't. I don't make videos with people I don't know.
- [40:01]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Interesting.
- [40:01]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And that's.
- [40:02]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
That's rare. It's very rare in this.
- [40:04]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
It's something that's super important for me, keeping my sanity and also for me, keeping a positive relationship, making content. I hate the Internet. I hate social media. I always say, the second I win Mega Millions, you're out, I'm out.
- [40:16]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
I actually say the same thing.
- [40:17]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
100. Why would we be doing this? Everyone who's watching this, we don't know you. You're strangers. Like, like. Like, that's the whole point. It is. You're letting people in on your journey. And you also still have to keep it real of, like, who are you? What's your actual value? Who's your actual community? I get very hard on people in the industry that are always talking about their friends that are also in the industry. And I'll sometimes be like, have you met them? Have you met them in person? Have you ever spent time with them? And they'll be like, no, but we talk every day on Instagram. You're a pen pal.
- [40:51]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Yeah, exactly.
- [40:51]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
But they're not your friend yet. You have a parasocial relationship with them. And until you take that irl, it's not real.
- [40:59]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
And especially in this industry, the mislabeling for the good and for the bad, that happens because people think something comes with the comment associated with someone, like, either completely mislabeling them for the bad or completely blowing smoke into a direction of, like, pumping someone's tires when they're just not a good human. It happens, like, every single second in this space.
- [41:17]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And the biggest part of that is in the same way. And people don't think of the public sphere like they're personalized. When you see people in your lives and you see who they hang out with, and you're like, ugh, she's hanging out with that guy. Like, he's the worst. Really is. It's like, guilty by association. So you start to see. It's like, if your faves are hanging out with people that you don't like.
- [41:42]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Keep an eye on it. I love it. All right. That's a good transition, though. You don't love social media, but you're damn good at it. Two and a half million followers. Forbes 30 under 30. I saw many cookbooks, New York Times bestseller. At what point you started in 2015. We heard your career track. At what point does social media start to become a business greater than everything else you're doing?
- [42:00]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
I had been focused on that throughout every editorial position. I prioritized building up my personal Instagram brand, continuing with content. That means coming home, shooting stuff. Different eras of different things. This was pre video, so this was all still, like, digital. I'll never forget a tasting table. I launched this initiative that was. Was, when I look back, one of the most brilliant things. And it's actually kind of wild that I haven't talked about this more. We did this thing where they understood tasting table is really the intersection of restaurant chefs and home cooks. And as a result, the first wave of Instagram influencers were restaurant accounts. People that were. Were just taking pictures of cheese pulls and all this.
- [42:48]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Charcuterie boards is like the big thing.
- [42:50]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
But the thing is, none of them know how to cook. And so what I started doing is I started hosting. We had an event space, and we started hosting these nights, and I would do cooking classes for about 20 influencers. Between all of them, millions and millions of followers. And I would set up, we'd pick a theme. So it'd be like, we're making homemade pasta or we're doing X. We're doing. Yeah. And I would set up a photo station. It was something gorgeous. There'd be a crazy charcuterie board. There'd be a beauty of whatever dish we were doing. And then we'd do this cooking class, and we'd have such a fun night. And then I would have. It was great for the brand because they were posting about the brand, they were also posting me. And so all of a sudden, I had, I don't know, 3, 4 million people, 3 or 4 million followers between all these people in one night, posting at J. Cohen, like, oh, my God, A.J. cohen teaching us how to make pasta, blah, blah, blah. And that's how I really learned my skills for cookbook launches. Because it's guerrilla marketing. It's just having one clear moment where you're getting bombarded of everyone's story. You're like, wait, that person's there, that person's there, that person's there. Who is this guy? Because the first time someone sees you, unless they're like, like laser focused for my. Like, unless they see me, they're like, oh, my God, this is exactly my kind of guy.
- [44:12]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Unless you are so niche, that person, they're going to come and go.
- [44:15]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Exactly. And so it's not until, like the seventh, eighth time that they see you, they're like, all right, I guess. I guess there's something about this guy. Let me follow him. And so I was doing that, building up my. My platform. I.
- [44:27]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
When you were doing that, how many followers did you have?
- [44:29]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
I think I was just about to hit 25,000. But maybe we got up to. Actually, I would say probably. I would say. I remember I hit 50,000 followers while working there.
- [44:39]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
I think this theory fits into almost any business and obviously specifically branding. But I think the theory I'm taking here, and tell me if I have this right, is you are a chef by nature. You Went to school for it. You've worked in Michelin restaurants, you've been an editor and you're seeing the social media pickup and you're seeing these people that are doing this on social media, but they're not doing it particularly well. So you create an event in which they can come in which you're teaching them to do it better. So you're providing them massive value to their own platforms and as a result of it, they're now looking at you as a source of credibility. Is that what your thinking was before you did it? Was that the strategy?
- [45:15]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
You know, I think it was more so affiliation of starting to think of me as a peer, but the peer that represented the skill set. So while they all understood it wasn't that they were all trying to become incredible home cooks, it was that they knew their lane and I knew my lane and I knew that I could leverage their platforms to promote because they are showcasing restaurants.
- [45:41]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, gotcha.
- [45:42]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
I am showcasing my own recipes. And as a result there wasn't competition. They might have been in competition with each other.
- [45:50]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Yeah, but not you.
- [45:52]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
But not me.
- [45:53]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
I feel like people can connect with me on this one. You know it's bad. When you're in box hits double digits before 9am you start the day buried in tasks and end it wondering where the time went. This is literally the story of my day. Doing it all yourself. Well, there is a solution out there. Instead of spending weeks sorting through all different tasks and all different inboxes, you can utilize Upwork Business Plus. They can do it for you if you're overextended and understaffed. Upwork Business plus will help you bring in top quality freelancers fast. Get instant access to the top 1% of talent on Upwork in marketing, design, AI and more. Ready to jump in and take work off your table. This is your solution. Think about it in all forms. If you work for a company or you own a company and your plate is too full, there is a time and place to outsource and you could do that today with Upwork Business Plus. Right now, when you spend $1,000 on Upwork Business plus, you'll get get $500 in credit. Just go to Upwork.comSave now and then you'll claim this offer before 1231, 2025. Again, that's Upwork.comSave S A V E and when you do that, you are going to claim that $500 credit. Scale smarter with top talent and get $500 in credit. Terms and conditions apply. Do you charge for these, or did you just say no?
- [47:21]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
They were 100%. They were 100% free.
- [47:23]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
And so you're doing. I interrupted you because I was curious about the strategy, but you were doing around seven or eight, and that's when you started to see massive traction on it. We did.
- [47:31]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
I think we did probably five of them, but from the first one, there was massive traction.
- [47:35]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Interesting.
- [47:36]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Again, this was also the beginning, so people were a lot more. It was much easier to grow followings back then because there was just. The market was less saturated.
- [47:44]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Sure, 100%.
- [47:45]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And then I followed that throughout every editorial position I had. I did that when I was the food critic at Time out, which had a great platform. Same thing when there was another position I had. And I think by this point, I had about 70,000 followers. I had built up a name in the editorial space. I was like, I want to do a cookbook. And I wrote up a proposal, sent it out. It got rejected by everyone. I was like, okay, let's go back to the drawing board. I adjusted it, went back to the market, sold it immediately. Got a tiny advance.
- [48:16]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
What's a tiny advance?
- [48:17]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
I got. Got a $65,000 advance, plus they were paying 30 grand for the photo shoot. Half of that would be held against my royalties. The other half was just paid for by the publisher.
- [48:29]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Two notes on that one. I think what's interesting about cookbooks in general, people don't think about is you have to. Again, yeah, you have to pay. So, like, yeah, they gave you 30,000. I have to spend. I'm sure you spent a lot. I would assume you spent more than 30,000 putting the book together.
- [48:42]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
All right, we'll get to that in a second, actually. So. So when you think about it, I have to pay for all of the groceries, for all the development. It's the time for developing the book. It's not just like, I write these recipes. I have to write them, I have to test them. I have to have them tested, all this stuff. And then for the photo shoot. And that was really important for this was photo shoots are very expensive for a cookbook. And when I think of my first one, I pulled out every favor I could. I went to the staff photographer at Saveur magazine, who had never shot a book before, and I was like, will you shoot this book? This is my budget. And he said it was his first opportunity to do a book. Amazing. I was like, this is the budget. I'll have. Everyone knew me in the industry, so building up that name was important because they wanted to be tied to a project with me. They knew what the budget was and they worked with it. I used a test kitchen space from a brand that I was working with, so I didn't have to pay for the studio. I think I got. I called in favors from every restaurant I know. It's like Bread's Bakery, all this stuff. They were catering the lunches, so I didn't have to pay for lunches any day. So I just did whatever I could to keep costs down. And as a result, it was incredibly unheard of in terms of what I did. Because also, I'll never forget, my editor came to me and he goes, you should assume with this budget you'll be able to get like three quarters of the recipes photographed and the rest won't have pictures. And that wasn't acceptable to me because I knew from my vision that, like, every recipe had to have a photo or else people won't make it. It won't make it. We won't be able to give it for press. We won't be able to do. I won't be able to post about it on Social. If we don't have the images. It wasn't acceptable for me. So I actually went behind his back and pretty much told the team, like, hey, I'll have everything prepped out. We're shooting everything. Wow. And then some.
- [50:29]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Wow.
- [50:30]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And we did it. And it was.
- [50:32]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
And so you got 65 for the advance, 30 for the budget. How much that did you spend? So 95.
- [50:37]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
All I. I think it was all of the 30 went for the shoot. But because of that, my editor had more control on the shoot. So I wasn't paying out versus for my next two books, I got a bigger advance and I was the one cutting the checks. So I was in charge of the team and all of that.
- [50:55]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Interesting.
- [50:56]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Got it.
- [50:57]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
And that's a very special thing. Cause cookbooks cost like when you talk to like an average, like a person.
- [51:01]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
My last book, I think I spent around $75,000.
- [51:06]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Yes. I've heard it's like, yeah, 75,000. Close to 100,000. And how long does it take from starting to finishing the book?
- [51:12]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Two years.
- [51:13]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Two years.
- [51:14]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Again, you have to remember, I am a unicorn. Because of my background. I do everything myself, the majority of people. And this is no shade to them. Sometimes it's a little shade. Like, no, no. Some of your favorites are like, not actually writing their books because they have co authors and they're not even showing. A lot of them aren't even showing. Up to their Coke book show. I'm cooking almost every recipe in the shoot. I have an incredible food stylist, Barrett Washburn. He's the main stylist for the Times I've worked with. Now this, like the same photographer and stylist for all three books. And it's because I love my team. I've been blessed enough to have success and I get a larger budget and as a result, I give them more money to have fun with it. And they have fun with the books because they know how much work I put into these books and how incredible that they come. Yeah.
- [52:05]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
And there's. I mean, they're just. If you go anywhere online and look at reviews of your books, they are just so well received wherever they go.
- [52:11]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
I mean, because that is the goal. This is my art.
- [52:15]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Yeah.
- [52:15]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And. And so it's not. It's hard because it's art through the lens of capitalism, where I also have to be selling books. But at the same time, one of the things I find so interesting, my community are predominantly creatives, but in different fields, very few within my own field, mainly because most of my contemporaries are not very nice, at least to me. And one of the things I found so interesting is I have so many friends that are in Broadway, that are in comedy, that are in prose of just writing novels and all this stuff where what they consider their best work is their least commercially successful.
- [52:55]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Do you find the same with your books? Like, have you made. We talked a little bit about your first advance. Have you made in royalties more than your advance?
- [53:02]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
I mean, I have. That was actually the biggest blessing of having a tiny advance is I paid off that advance in a few months of the book coming out. And since then I just get royalty.
- [53:12]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Checks for majority of your career after school, you know, you're working minimum wage, you're grinding 30 grand, 45 grand, get to 60, get to 75. Is it. I mean, the success story is really cool. Is it fair to say over the three books you've made over seven figures. Fine.
- [53:26]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Over seven figures.
- [53:27]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Come.
- [53:28]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
No, not yet.
- [53:29]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Okay. But you're getting there.
- [53:30]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Not yet.
- [53:30]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
I still think like, that story is incredible.
- [53:32]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Yeah. But again, you have to remember, and this is something that comes up a lot. A million dollars spread across seven years.
- [53:40]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Yeah.
- [53:41]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Is. It's nothing that I'm not incredibly proud of and not incredibly, really, really grateful for, but we also have to level set of like living in New York, producing in New York. It's not cheap, so it's not like the profit margins are.
- [53:57]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
If you Have PR behind or whatever else is coming.
- [54:00]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And I'll say that this is like one of my more controversial things. I'll say just to kind of tie the bow on professionally really. Right before my first book came out, I actually had a job offer and I left my last company for this offer. And it was in the height of the pandemic and it was myself and all these other incredibly popular and public food personalities, cookbook authors, tiktokers. And it was this guy whose background was in gaming and he was going to launch kind of like a culinary hype house. And I signed on for it. And by the time we all signed onto it to the time that we got our contracts, the Internet was exploding in such a way in which our followers were going, were just jumping through the roof. They wanted exclusivity. They couldn't afford us anymore and it fell apart.
- [54:48]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
When you say exclusivity, they would have been able to manage any type of.
- [54:51]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Deal that brand partnership.
- [54:52]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Correct. Gotcha.
- [54:53]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And the brand. And this was at the height of when brand partnerships were just, it was just the wild west.
- [54:59]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Has brand partnerships then been the largest source of revenue for you since pivoting into digital?
- [55:05]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
I would say at first, yes. As I've built up my brand and, and like book advances, all that stuff, I'd say it's probably equal.
- [55:15]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Interesting.
- [55:16]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Which is important because it's actually when you think about the cost of producing the book, I need to have, I need to have that. I need to have that stream of income in order to support the overarching thing which goes into tying it back to the restaurant of the fine dining restaurant, to the fast casual. To me, my books are my three Michelin star restaurant. My social content, content is my. Is my shake shack makes sense. And I just, I need both. I can't just be making TikTok videos or else you just call me an influencer, which is the number. I had this guy, I was, oh my God. And again, this is no shade, but he was like some no name guy who was trying to talk down to me. He's like, I won't be talked. He's like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna be listening to some influencer. I said, first off, that's New York Times bestselling author to you. Second, just because I have some social clout does not define me. And you see it all the time and you see all these actors and everyone who's then getting into the food space starts doing these cooking videos. You don't all of A sudden start calling them influencers.
- [56:24]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Correct. Yeah.
- [56:25]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
But it's just a weird world of where our headspace goes.
- [56:31]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Yeah. I mean it's interesting because there's an identity crisis right now online. Yeah. And people that are, that are true, like their only source of income is influencing, are trying.
- [56:42]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Big mistake.
- [56:42]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Which is a big mistake. Right. Because I mean, if we can, that would be a whole podcast. But yeah, they are having this and let's just say they're making, I know a lot of influencers making millions of dollars, millions of dollars annually, crushing it. And that's their only job. But they're having this identity crisis because they want more. More. And at the same time, there's a lot of people that have more. They have all the credentials, all the credibility. Some of them even like a list celebrities now are actually trying to do cross collaborations with high class A, let's call it influencers because they're trying to get more of the community and following. And it seems like from Hollywood to social media, it's like everywhere in between there's this like massive, massive identity crisis with like what's happening online and what are you.
- [57:23]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
I can distill that down where like the celebrities have typically much smarter teams behind them, resources and they understand that there are physical products that they're selling and pushing and they're leveraging these influencers that get eyeballs but actually haven't figured out how to convert that into money other than clicking. Being a living, breathing billboard.
- [57:47]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Correct.
- [57:47]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And some have done an incredible job crossing over. But I'll say from my own experience as someone who's many friends that then I kind of help talk through in the cookbook space of these are influencers. Tiktokers. They get their first book deal. Some of them take advances that are larger than I've ever taken. And I remember this one guy, I told him, I was like, he was about to take a half million dollar advance and I was like, you do understand you got to sell books. If you don't sell enough books, you're not gonna get another book deal because they bet on you. And it was a bad bet.
- [58:23]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
That's true. And there's really only so many publishers, so they all talk. They'll notice.
- [58:27]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Well, no, no, Everyone knows how you can see numbers are public. And so I was like, take an advance that allows you to. Again, I'm not saying don't take anything. Take enough that you can, that is your salary and pays for the production of the book and then pay it off. Have a book be so successful and get royalty checks. It's better for us to be getting royalty checks than still looking to pay off.
- [58:49]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
How many units are sold on books publicly, though?
- [58:51]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Yes, within the industry.
- [58:52]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Within the industry.
- [58:53]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Within the industry. If you have an agent. If you have an agent, you know, so it's like all these people have access to it. So for me, the hardest part is when I see these people that have so much more social clout than myself. Millions more followers, engagement through the roof they're getting. Each one of their videos is getting. Makes me look like a nobody, look like my mother on Instagram, and yet they're selling a fraction of the books that I sell.
- [59:20]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Interesting.
- [59:20]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Because it's a different relationship with their audience.
- [59:22]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Yeah, for sure. And they. In my opinion, you have. You have. There's a lot of people, a lot of followers. It doesn't mean they actually have direct influence. Like an influence comes a lot of credibility. Right. Which is what you have. Which is why you can move units the way you have. This episode of Training Secrets is brought to you by booking.com I've got to say, if you're looking to grow your vacation rental business, this is the place to be. Booking.com is one of the most downloaded travel apps in the world, and for good reason. Since 2010, they have helped over 1.8 billion vacation rental guests find places to stay. That's billion with a B. But here's the thing. Most vacation rental hosts don't even realize they can list their properties on booking.com and if you're not on the platform, your rental is basically invisible to millions of Booking.com travelers worldwide. After all, they can't book what they can't see, right? But once you start listing on booking.com your property gets seen by a massive global audience of unique travelers. That means more visibility, more bookings, and more opportunity to accelerate the growth of your rental business. And it couldn't be easier. You can register your property in as little as 15 minutes. And nearly half of hosts get their first booking within a week. So if your vacation rental isn't listed on booking.com, it could be invisible to millions of travelers searching the platform. Don't miss out on consistent bookings and global reach. Head over to booking.com and start your your listing today. Get seen, get booked on booking.com let's quickly talk about your TV show. Jake makes it Easy. It's on Hulu, right? It's your second season. It's out right now. Tell us a little bit of how did a TV show like, you know, we've heard everything to this point. How does a TV show find you? And what does that negotiation look like?
- [61:01]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
It's a perfect tie into everything else. So it's like, I. I'll never forget kind of the day there was one specific moment. People always know, like, when did you know things were taking off? Because I. I've. I don't know. It's like. And this is gonna sound. This is gonna sound like, really pathetic. Not pathetic, but, like, shitty. But, like, I've always known I'm a star. Like, I just, like, you have to. You have to know you're your star. Some people. Some people think they're a star and they aren't.
- [61:25]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Yeah.
- [61:25]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And I just think I am. I just. I am.
- [61:28]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
And part of your manifestation.
- [61:30]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And I. My book, my first book is coming out. During the pandemic, I was asked to do a pre record for the Rachael Ray show in which I just, like, filmed myself on an iPhone making a recipe from the book. And this was the launch day, and it was airing on Rachel, and so I sent the video and that's all. And so I'm watching the show live and I'm seeing her set up the segment, and she pulls out my book and she pretty much says that this is like, one of the best books she's seen of recent and kind of just like hypes me up in a way of, like, how obsessed she is with me. And this was one of the three women that I feel like, raised me. Like I was so obsessed with the Food Network as a kid and. And to see someone whose trajectory so represents what I want for myself giving me this kind of praise. I'm not a very emotional person, but I started hysterically crying. And that was the same week that I. Again, I was 27 years old when I hit the times list for the first time. And it was a lot. It was a lot because it was also all happening in private because it's not like I had, like. I just think of my book launched two days ago, was at the Stryker center with 750 people. And the first two books, I mean, well, the first book was completely virtual. So you don't have any actual concept of what's happening around you. There's no actual tangible way to touch its ear to prepare your nervous system for what's happening, which in one sense, I actually think is quite a blessing. But at the same time, it was just. It was weird. So. So Rachel continued to be a huge supporter of mine throughout all of my books and she's blurbed my second and third books. And she had me back on the show a bunch of times. And the last time I was on set, she goes, hey, I'm launching a production company and I want to give you a show. I was like, okay. I was like, we'll see. But again, I've talked to a million production companies. You talk to anyone in the industry, for every greenlit thing, there's a 10,000 that disappear.
- [63:30]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Yeah.
- [63:31]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And I didn't really think anything of it until it actually happened. And it's a real beautiful, simple stand and stir show. Just me cooking recipes. It's on A and E. So I knew it was gonna be linear tv, a different audience on cable with the benefit of after six months, all the seasons go to Hulu and become part of the streaming universe. And so for. It's the same way, it's like you look at reality shows like Love Thy Nadir, that's a freeform show. But no, no, no, no, it's Hulu.
- [64:01]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Yeah.
- [64:01]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Because it's all in the same universe and you do one and you get it all correct. So I knew that's what was part of this plan to be in the Disney sphere. And I didn't have exclusivity, which was a very important part of, of this because it's like, who knows, maybe tomorrow I get asked to be the host of Top Chef. Or maybe tomorrow, the next day I get a million one things. I don't know where I'm going to want to be. I might want to be. I always say it's like I have this deep feeling that I'm going to end up on like Summer House or Survivor in the next year.
- [64:30]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Let me call Kyle, see what we can do.
- [64:33]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
So I just think that for me it was kind of a no brainer. Is it lucrative? Absolutely not. Again, it's the same conversation similar to.
- [64:45]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Your first book advance where you just like, it's less interesting.
- [64:49]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Really. It's. But at the same time, it is creating a piece of content that a has the wildest team behind it. So we have a production team. So the quality of what is being shot with multiple cameras and a culinary producer and what we're able to actually produce is worth it for me because it's not like I am. It's not the same workload that it is of taking a book. It's much less. And so the pay is representative of it. But it also introduced a new audience to me that's not finding me on Instagram. It's a pedigree of like, yeah, I cook on tv now you can go on Hulu and you can watch my shows. You can find me. And when I'm looking for my next projects or next opportunities for someone to go and see proof of concept of, oh, you want to see what I look like Making recipes with a camera up and not having anyone just holding my own. Own go watch on Hulu.
- [65:45]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
I love it.
- [65:46]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
It's.
- [65:46]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
And it's important that call me an influencer.
- [65:49]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
But it. But it's true. And it's like, you see that, and it's like, oh, okay, it's crazy not to do that. And also, this is the. The one thing that, like, I. Someone told me, and I was like, if you want to be like, a professional person who cooks on TV and Rachael Ray's calling you and telling you to do it, you do it.
- [66:13]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
You do it.
- [66:13]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
It's like, you don't ask questions. And there's this other Food Network star that I'm very close with, and I called her up for advice during it, and one of the things she said is, like, have so much fun with this. And just remember, when you look at Bobby Flay and you look at Giada and you look at all these people, I can promise you, you don't actually know the name of their first show on Food Network.
- [66:34]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
That's great.
- [66:34]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Because it wasn't their biggest.
- [66:36]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
That's great. Great. Well, good for you. I love it. I think you clearly have a clear path. It's a wild path, but it's always been a little wild.
- [66:43]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
But that's where the faith comes in. Yeah. I actually don't know what the path is going to be. I know the things that. I know the feelings. I know how I want to feel when it comes to my relationship with my work, and I know what I want to do in terms of feeling fulfilled. And other than that, that's for the universe to kind of bring to me of what's going to happen. Because you'll do something and be like, okay, I love that, that I want more of that, or, I actually didn't feel good about this, even if it made a lot of money. And then it's finding the balance, like, okay, well, this makes a lot of money, but I don't actually like it. How do I reduce that or do that enough in order to support the stuff that I love that might not be as profitable?
- [67:21]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
I love it. It's fascinating. I don't know. I could say I could see, like, a competition Show. Maybe I could see you as the chef on Summer House, but also in the cast. There's a lot. Yeah.
- [67:29]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
I'm not a private. I'm not a. Let's be clear. For all the Bravo producers listening, I will be a cast member, period. Will I also cook? Will I also cook?
- [67:39]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Yeah.
- [67:40]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Yeah.
- [67:40]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
I'm thinking, like, that's like the thing. Like, you could see a hosting, but I could see him being like, oh, he's gonna. He'll be a cast member, but he's also the chef. But then everyone comes to you and they like, of course. Something. All right, here we go. There are. Like you said, there are a lot of cookbooks out there. Rachel Ray gave you compliments, has given you blurbs. The entire industry has. But maybe my listeners haven't heard of your new book, Dinner Party Animal Recipes to Make Every Celebration. So give us the pitch. Why this book? How's it differentiated? Why should someone go this second when they're hearing this and go buy it?
- [68:12]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
It really is the most gorgeous book I've ever made of the three. It's so incredibly inventive. I wanted something that was so focused on community, and to me, the greatest joy in my life comes from cooking for others. And it's something that terrifies people. And so I wanted to take all of the work out of it. And I created 16 menus for 16 different occasions for from brunch to weeknight dinners to celebrations to holidays. And I give you your recipes, your grocery list, your timeline, everything you need to know of, like, you're hosting people three days before, Here are all the steps you're gonna do two days before. Here's everything you're gonna do the night before. Here's what you're gonna do when your guests come. Everything's gonna be ready, and you actually get to be present and have fun hosting. And past that, there are 100 incredible recipes that even if you didn't throw a dinner party and just made a random recipe. Recipe, your cooking is going to get better.
- [69:03]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
I love it. That was a hell of a pitch. I'm ready to buy it right now. It also reminds me my business sense goes to Martha Stewart, someone he looks up to. I think that one of her, like, beginning plays was, I'm going to have the strategy of giving people the best recipe. So when they cooked for their loved ones and their loved ones love it, I'm building power and credibility with them to come back. And I think when you're putting a book together like this, where people are, you're Literally spelling out, just go to the grocery store, buy this, do this. And then their loved ones, they see that reaction, they're going to be coming back.
- [69:32]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
It's really crazy because it's one of the few industries not few, I'd say actually, it's more normal than not. We talk about marketing and using social media. Word of mouth is the most powerful thing still in my industry. Someone is going to make a recipe and tell their friends who cook how much they love this book. And that is the number one pusher of cookbook sales is that it is not. Not you can have. I've done every. Every show, every daytime talk show, all of the stuff, I've done it all. Nothing pushes like word of mouth.
- [70:06]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
So true. We got a wrap with your trading secret, Jake. What can you leave us with? It's specific to you. Can it learn it from a Professor TikTok tutorial or any. Any of those influencers out there? We can just learn from your experience that you just shared with us. What can you leave us with?
- [70:19]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Yeah. So my biggest thing that I do in life is focus on what does my subconscious actually want? And the way that you find that is there are so many different rituals, but ritual is the key about that. It's journaling, it's meditation. It's manifestation through positive, intentional thinking. It's psychedelic work, which is something I'm incredibly passionate about, all to help find. Does this actually serve me? Or is this what I have been programmed to think that I want? And when you do that, that everything becomes easy because you're able to approach every business, every opportunity authentically. And it really is the secret to success because it really. It doesn't matter what you do, as long as you're doing it as your truest self. It's my biggest advice when someone's saying, how do I gain followers on Instagram? You be yourself, and you either find an audience that resonates with that or people don't resonate. That's out of your control, and that's none of your business whether people like you or not.
- [71:23]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Right? Right. It's wild because it's the trading secret we're rapping with touched on the trading secret that we started with. And I think the trading secret that I took from you was everything you just said. But I also think the ability to execute. I think a lot of people can feel it in their gut. They can see it, their eyes, they can understand they're in the wrong place. They can be like, I'm going to be authentic. I'm going to be vulnerable. But the problem is they sit in that place for too long. Sitting there for a lifetime. I think the thing that I've observed from your career is like, you're the speed at which you see it, you hear it, you feel it, your gut tells you and you just go like that. I think that is like your. I mean, there's a lot of. Obviously, no, that is my superpower. You have. But your superpower is to like, see the vision. And even when you're like, what do you mean you're gonna leave? You just got here. How are you gonna not take that role? Or how are you gonna not go to the culinary house? Like, you see it, you instantly, you act. And I think so many people will spend their entire, entire life overthinking and not acting and executing. So you are a testament to just do it. Just do it. We had in this room, literally we had an FBI hostage negotiator talk about like the bits of. He talked about like bits and energy. Like I didn't.
- [72:31]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Energy. Everything is energy. But he talked about everything is energy.
- [72:34]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Can compute something logically. And the speed and the energy at which your gut can compute something compared to your brain. This is an FBI hostage negotiator. I remember numbers. I don't remember terminology. Was 500,000 tokens. Your gut can compute at a 500,000 to 1 range compared to your actual logic and brain. And that's how.
- [72:53]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Or the last thing. The last thing I'll say. So when you think about this, because I do a lot of woo woo stuff. I'm a huge. I did the Hoffman process, which I swear by.
- [73:00]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Oh my gosh, that's wild.
- [73:01]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
And really, when you think of the neuroscience behind that and so much of this work, it is your whole life is. You have created these incredibly reinforced neural pathways of how you respond and how you think about the world around you. And your subconscious can be telling you very clearly that this is wrong, it's the wrong way that you should act to this external stimuli. It's the wrong way you should be approaching an opportunity, all of this stuff, but you don't necessarily have the neural synapses strong enough to create a new response to go for it. And so understanding that you are just a product of your childhood, your parents, the world around you, and the nurture element, you are now in control of creating a new life for yourself. And it's not easy. Nothing comes easily. And even for me, it's like, I think I sounded pretty fucking confident on this. And I think I am pretty confident. That being said, that comes with intense ritual, intense check ins with myself to make sure that I am doing things that are authentically like what I want deep down versus what I just think I'm programmed to go towards.
- [74:11]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Fascinating. Think it, see it, act on it and just keep putting in that work. Jake, this has been awesome. Thank you for being on Training Secrets. Where can everyone find. Have everything you have going on at J. Cohen.
- [74:21]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Google me. It's very easy.
- [74:23]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
I'm on Amazon right now looking at your books. We're gonna give away a couple copies of Dinner Party Animals. Stay tuned to the recap. We'll tell you how you can get those copies. And Jake, thank you for being so much on Charting secrets. Appreciate having you. Ding, ding, ding. We are closing in the bell with the curious Canadian to the Jake Cohen episode. We're laughing because we were just getting fired up before we did this recap. But if you haven't, make sure you enter to win the gift cards we got to give away. Just go to the Apple and or go to oh, David's yelling for a star right now. But go to Apple, go to Spotify. Give us five stars. Let us know your biggest takeaway from this episode and let us know either a theme or guest that you think we should have on. And next week in the recap, we are giving three gift cards away, so make sure you do that. But we got the curious Canadian here with us, the star of the recap to always break down what he's thinking. I'm actually very curious what the curious Canadian thinks about Mr. J. Jake Cohen. David Arden, what do you think of the episode?
- [75:18]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
You must be calling me the star just to gas me up, to get me on the same confidence level of Mr. Jake Cohen. Because let me tell you, this guy might be the most confident person I've ever met in my life. And he had some statements to back it up. I mean, he, he called himself a unicorn. He says, I've always known I'm a star. I mean, this guy was coming out swinging. You know what I got to do now with anybody that comes out this confident that I don't know of before because I, I, I just didn't follow him. And now I'm definitely going to follow him because I got to see what this guy's all about. I got to dive into some cookbooks. I'm even going to try some recipes for this guy because if this guy is this confident, I'm all in. I might have to be all in or I might be all out. And if I'm all out, then we'll, then, then I'm going to let you know. But right now this guy has me hooked and I need some more. I need some more. J. Cohen.
- [76:02]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Jake. Jake, if you are listening to this, let me tell you, the listeners that are still here with us right now, they know that David always has a comment when we have a very confident guest. And, and bring us back 20 years ago when we were in college. David didn't like me at first because of what I will call my confidence. Now we're best boys. It's just how David operates. But I will say he. The confidence is, of course, is there. You drop some of the lines. But the, the confidence is also backed. I mean, he's got tons of, of experience in culinary school, at the best culinary school. He's done his work in the industry. He is one of the few food creators that we see that actually is a chef who's been there, done that with the experience and big time New York Times bestseller, collaborating with some of the biggest and best celebrities in the entire world. And he's done it. So, like, the confidence is backed and it's proof.
- [76:58]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
Is it ever. I mean, why wouldn't this guy be confident? We're talking about one track mindset we've been on. We're talking, we've had Barbara Corcoran on. She's talking about her 26 failures before she landed on what she's going to, to do. This guy knew, he delivered. He's been on the oneway highway. He's hanging out with Benny Blanco. He's got two and a half million. He's. Come on. I mean, yeah, this guy, this guy's backing it up all day, every day. So, yeah, I mean, I learned a ton, you know.
- [77:25]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
You know what I'm most jealous? I'm always curious what you're curious about. That's your job here. But I'm most jealous about, like, what I want to be able to take in my life that he's able to do every single day is just that ability to like, he sees the vision and goes like the pivot. Pivot, go. The pivot execution. I'm good at seeing the pivot. I see the pivot. And then I'll just think and analyze and wonder and call you, David, call my ma, call my dad, hey, what do we just think and go? And I think in this world, the speed at which everything's moving, if you don't just start thinking and going, you're really going to.
- [77:56]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
And I mean that's what he said he was so he's been so successful because he's just been himself. And he says that's this, that's the key to social media in a nutshell is be yourself. And then if you are relatable, you're going to find out because people are going to fall, they're going to want some more of it. So, so yeah, there was, that was one of the takeaways that I got. I do have a question for you that I don't know the answer to. He started out of culinary school at a, a Michelin three star restaurant. What makes a restaurant a Michelin star restaurant? Because I've been pretending like I know what a Michelin star restaurant. And every time someone says Michelin star, you know what I think of? Jay? I think, think. What do you think of the Michelin Man? I think of the Michelin Man.
- [78:39]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
What makes you think of.
- [78:39]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
Because I don't know what a Michelin star is. So people say Michelin. I think of the Michelin man logo, the big white puffy guy with all the rolls and he's with the tires. That's what I think of because I don't know what it is. So I need you to enlighten me on what a Michelin star is and how and what makes it a Michelin star. And then how do we define the stars in a Michelin star?
- [78:57]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Okay, now let me tell you this, I am no Michelin star expert, but I believe what happened back in the day is actually, actually the tire company Michelin was trying to find ways to sell more tires. And they did it by saying we're going to do restaurant reviews. And based on the restaurant reviews, we are going to encourage people to be traveling more to go to restaurants because if they travel more. Yeah. So it is actually connect. Michelin is connected to the tire company. My understanding is that they will come anonymous, they eat and then if they have the credibility from the like quote unquote, like anonymous eaters and inspectors, they will award the stars that I know for sure that they cannot be bought in any way, shape or form. But that is my understanding of the Michelin stars. And then based on the Michelin star review, you'll actually get a certain amount of stars based on how good it is and then they can do the same and they can take the stars away from too. So did you know that about Michael?
- [80:04]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
I was trying to be funny guy David on here. I was trying to say. Yeah, why you think that I thought the Michelin man had anything to do with the Michelin star restaurant. Because if that's actually true, I'm going to be in the deepest rabbit hole of my new best friend Chad GPT for the rest of the night trying to learn about Michelin's. Because this is, this is my brain, my brain, mind. Actually this Jake cone might be rubbing off on me now. I think I'm the smartest person in the world for connecting the Michelin Man Law logo, the white puffy guy that we all know and love, to a Michelin star restaurant.
- [80:34]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
And David, we always talk AI on this podcast. So yes, you are sniffing it, you were feeling it, you were sensing it and you said it. Well, as of mid-2025, according to AI, there are approximately 3,715 Michelin starred restaurants worldwide with about 3,053 holding a one star, 503 holding two stars, and 153 holding, holding three stars. And that exact number changes annually with the release of the new guide which covers a various of regions throughout the year. So a one star means high quality cooking. Two stars means excellent cooking that is worth a detour. Three stars, exceptional cuisine that is worth this special journey. That's five, that's 153 that are holding that. So it's obviously it's extremely prestigious now for my, my, my foodies out there that are listening to this recap, they're like, wow, these guys are a bunch of, bunch of idiots.
- [81:26]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
Yeah, yeah, Correct, correct.
- [81:28]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
That's the, that's the name of the game right there. Have you ever eaten at a Michel?
- [81:32]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
Not that I know of.
- [81:35]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Yeah, I have and it's very, it's, it's, it's a, it's an experience. That's the only way. It's expensive and experience and it's every form of like what they serve is going to be.
- [81:49]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
No.
- [81:50]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Well, I got another fun.
- [81:52]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
We ate at a Michelin Star Rest restaurant at ne.
- [81:58]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Oh we did. That's true.
- [82:00]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
That was a Michel star restaurant. Now question for you is a Michelin Star Rest.
- [82:04]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Well, hang on, one quick one I want to throw at you. Car Carbone, which we know was first awarded a Michelin star restaurant in 2013, but their star was removed in 2020, 2022 and it no longer has a.
- [82:16]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
So that also, also answers my question. I was always under the impression Michelin star restaurant had to be one of these like seven course. You eat like something it's the size of a quarter and like you're, they expect you to be full off it because it's made from like, you know, plants from the Amazon rainforest. So I'm learning, I'm learning. I'm here for it. I'm here for it and I'm hungry. And, and the one thing that I did really appreciate from him was his mentality about how he says, I will pay the price for any meal if it's worth it. I liked how he used the example from Chipotle. He's like, I'll pay for Chipotle anytime. Cuz every time I go, I'm satisfied. I don't care if they charge me 10 bucks, 20 bucks, whatever I want, I get. I it.
- [82:52]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Love, love it.
- [82:53]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
And the same thing with fine dining. I think you and I are similar in that realm. And I did love the fact that he, that he viewed how much he pays at a restaurant based off labor cost.
- [83:02]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
How he says to me that that's going to be my biggest. Like when I go to restaurants now, I think about what he said and I only order something that I think I'll get the value based on. Like, he totally changed shape.
- [83:13]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
My sushi is the best example. Like I'm never going to be able to, to cook sushi. He, he used steak as example. I feel like cooking steak is something that we, that I would love to do. And so going to get a good steak is like, well, I almost want to be able to recreate that because I feel like I could do that. But there is so many things where I'm like, I like that idea. It's like I'm gonna now go and order things that I could never, I could never make on my own. And it's going to help justify the cost of it.
- [83:39]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
I completely agree with that. Like, and I think now I think about pasta. I'm like, why am I, why would I ever order pasta unless, like the pasta dish is just like one of a kind. Like you could so easily make that home. And especially with right now the cost of. I mean, I, I eat out all the time. Right. I could tell you the cost of restaurants are just out of control these days. Like it is out of control how expensive things are in these restaurants. And the markups have gotten just a little ridiculous. So cooking at home is definitely a play. Plus it's a little healthier. But you also got to enjoy your meal too. I don't know. David, let me ask you this. What is, what is your favorite meal? I asked him your number one fast food meal, your number one restaurant. Give me the break. Breakdown.
- [84:18]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
So you know, this varies. I think it varies On. On the season. I think it varies on a lot of things. I. I will say. And I just said it. Ashley, by the time. So we're recording the Sunday night. Monday is tomorrow. Ashley is probably giving birth to our second son this week, and I've been a pretty supportive husband because she can't eat sushi, so you can't eat raw fish when you are pregnant. And I don't like to do things that she can't indulge in. And so I am craving sushi, Jay. And I love sushi sushi more than anything. And I've gone nine months without, like, really good sushi. So right now, in this moment in time, I am craving sushi more than anything. And if we were talking fast food in there, it. I go in phases. It. I mean, for the last 18 months, it's taco Bell. I mean, it's just been Taco Bell. It's Taco Bell every day of the week. It's Taco Bell. I love Taco Bell.
- [85:08]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
I'm so done with Taco Bell.
- [85:09]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
Well, you're a mighty taco guy, so we don't even need to get into here.
- [85:12]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
I. No, but I, like, had him. I had a Taco Bell. Well, phase. I'm just so done.
- [85:15]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
Okay.
- [85:16]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
But I respect the sushi plate. When you're. When she is pregnant, like, when you're on the road for your hockey games, do you ever just, like, sneak in some sushi because it's not in front of her, so it's not gonna, like. No.
- [85:26]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
It's so funny. I actually. A month ago, there was. It was one right by my hotel, and I debated. Even Ash was like, go, go. And I was like, no, because I've been saying her. I was like, our first date night, as soon as we can get out of the house, there's a new sushi spot that opened in Rochester. It looks unbelievable. I cannot wait to go there and try with her and have a nice little date night. Maybe a little sake and. And we'll see. Maybe make baby number three. No kidding. No kidding. We're done.
- [85:48]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
We're done, baby. Are you sure?
- [85:51]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
Trust me. Appointment is booked. I am sure. Oh, wow.
- [85:56]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
All right. We'll have to recap that when that happens. All right.
- [86:00]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
A lot.
- [86:00]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
A lot of personal updates coming here soon. A lot of action, and we're adding a new one to the family. David, anything else on this episode that really.
- [86:08]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
Okay, I'm just gonna end with this. I think another example of doing things free or doing things without any monetary value that you're passionate in that can lead to networking, jobs, opportunities. I think you saw it there. I think he was a master of that. Really, really impressive stuff. And, and then just one last thing that he said that stuck out to me. For anyone here who's working on a side business, who's trying to, who's being an entrepreneur, he said in his career, with how successful he is, that word of mouth marketing has been more impactful than any media, any press store, any talk show, any radio show, any podcast he's ever done, done. Make sure that your product is good. People are talking about it. They want to share it with other people that'll come across with how you treat the customer, how your product is, how people interact with it. I thought that was just a really interesting thing with how successful he's been. So those are my last two takeaways. Jay Cohen, I'm following you. I'm, I'm trying to capture and, and, and bottle this where it's coming from. He also said he was. He has all the makings of a reality TV star. I'm going to need him in front of my TV on a reality TV show, something anytime soon.
- [87:11]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
We will see. I think he's prime for the pickings at a Bravo show, but we will see. David, let's wrap with this. You got a plate in front of you right now. It can't be sushi. What are you putting on that plate?
- [87:21]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
Listen, right now I need. I had a long weekend. I'm going upstairs after this and I'm eating the biggest bowl of cereal that I could find.
- [87:28]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Interesting.
- [87:29]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Football.
- [87:31]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
It's 9pm I just bought a box of Captain Crunch. Crunch berries.
- [87:39]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Yeah.
- [87:39]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
And I'm going, well, I already have in the house, so I'm, I'm.
- [87:42]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
They like, when I eat crunch berries, they like make my mouth like chewed up. It's like word. It's like literally, like, like trading secret.
- [87:50]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
Ashley got me on putting an ice cube in your cereal to make your milk colder. And oh, my God, I realized that I didn't buy milk and I have baby milk.
- [88:00]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
This literally two.
- [88:01]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
That's two. It's like 4% milk. I'm.
- [88:04]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
You're using. You're drinking your. You're drinking your cereal.
- [88:06]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
No, not breast milk. Milk for the baby milk for Carter.
- [88:12]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Like formula.
- [88:13]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
No, like, just like, he just has a bottle. So it's like 4%. It's like, it's like fat. It's like for calorie intake.
- [88:20]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Oh, yeah.
- [88:20]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
What are you, what are you eating? I mean, it's 8:39 on a Sunday night. What are you eating?
- [88:24]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
It's not what I'm telling you right now, what I'm craving. I haven't had a good chicken wing in 60,000 years. I just need like, I need a good chicken wing because you can't get a good chicken wing anywhere in the entire planet other than Buffalo, New York. So I'm just dying for it. But the good news, I will be in Buffalo, New York, Saturday. I should have told you that. Yeah, yeah, probably so. Thursday, Thursday, Thanksgiving, Friday, Friday, Charlotte, Saturday. Going up for Jesse Bagula. They, they have a foundation that they, they get. They raise capital and then they give all the money to rescue foundation. So it's not a rescue, but they raise money in the foundation and give it to rescues. So I'm going to support that. That and all the Buffalo boys will be there.
- [89:05]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
And when are you leaving?
- [89:06]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Yeah, do you want to come? Should you want to come?
- [89:08]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Yeah, I do.
- [89:09]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Yeah. Come up Saturday. It'll be a great day. Big Rob G will be in the house. When are you leaving Buffalo boys? I'm just literally going Saturday and I think I'm coming back Sunday.
- [89:18]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
Or maybe you, maybe you do Saturday there. Sunday, Rochester, a little football. Sunday, theater room. Maybe we chop it up a little bit. Go get your. Go get your chicken wings.
- [89:25]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Very possible. We'll pick this up off the show, but thank you guys for tuning into another episode, sharing secrets. We got gift cards to give away. Go give us five stars. Let us know what you're thinking. Give us all the feedback, different guests. We should have themes. We got 20, 26 on the horizon and boy, we are going to be changing it up for the better. Trading Secrets. It's a good place to be right now. We're ripping and roaring. David. Anything for.
- [89:45]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
Happy Thanksgiving to all of our listeners. Appreciate you guys.
- [89:48]
Host 1 (Trading Secrets Host)
Happy Thanksgiving. I hope we see you this week. And thank you for tuning to another episode of Trading Secrets, one you couldn't afford to miss.
- [90:18]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Ever see an idea so clearly in.
- [90:20]
David Arden (The Curious Canadian)
Your head but struggle to find the.
- [90:22]
Jake Cohen (Guest Chef and Author)
Time to get it all done? WIX helps you go from I'll get to it to done. Build a full site just by describing your idea. Let an AI agent handle daily tasks. Plan your next marketing campaign or help out customers so you can grow your business the way you want without it taking over your life. Try it out@wix.com in business, they say.
- [90:45]
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