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Trading Secrets
269. Jason Gamel: The Business of Timeshares. Myths, Costs & Why the Industry Is Thriving
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Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today we are joined by Jason Gammell, President and CEO of the American Resort Development association, the leading voice for the timeshare and vacation vacation ownership industry. With more than 25 years of experience in hospitality law and leadership, Jason oversees everything from legislative advocacy to industry research, helping shape how millions of Americans vacation each year. Under his leadership, Arda is educating a new generation of travelers about the flexibility, value, and evolving perks of modern timeshare ownership. From exclusive experiences to. To smarter, more affordable travel models, Today we are gonna break down the real business of vacation ownership. What's the myth? What's the fact, and why? The timeshare industry is quietly one of the most resilient sectors in the United States when it comes to travel. And of course, all my listeners that are gearing up for travel plans, especially after the holiday season, you're gonna get all the trading secrets as a consumer. So, Jason, thank you so much for being on Trading Secrets.
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Jason, thank you for having me. All right.
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We got so much to dive into. What we do on Trading Secrets, we always say, do we have someone that people want to learn about, or do we have someone that people will learn so much from? And with you in the travel industry, so much has changed. Timesharing's changed. The cost of hotels have changed. There's just been a whole lot of action. So we're going to break into the myths, we're going to break into the facts, and I think we're just going to dive right into it, because I think in general, when I talk about time sharing on Trading Secrets for the podcast, it seems like there's just a big misunderstanding. You have some people that absolutely love it, swear by it, and will tell me stories of every single place that they've bought timeshare in and the benefits. And other people will be like, nah, I don't trust it. I don't know about it. So you've had decades in the hospitality industry and in law. Break it down to me. What are some of the myths? What are some of the facts? What are some things as consumers we have to know?
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Again, Jason, thanks for the opportunity. There are so many things that I think if you take a look at what people think that the timeshare is like today and what it's really like, it takes a lot of education. It takes a lot of time. But let's just start off with the premise that you talked about, is that you've got a lot of people that love it. I hear from all the time You've got some misconceptions for some people out there who say, well, you know what, it's just not right for me. And a lot of times it breaks down to what is today's modern day timeshare industry and timeshare product. I know, Jason, you had a chance to experience it, but when people look at what it is and the accommodations, the fantastic professional management that takes place at these resorts, the biggest names in hospitality, you look at the flexibility of the product and I think that's one big myth that's out there that most people continue to believe that that timeshare is the same product it was 20, 30, 40 years ago that I've locked into the same place year after year. It's the same time. I have no flexibility. And quite frankly, it couldn't be further than the truth today.
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Yeah, when I went to Key West, I mean, the property was immaculate. What I thought was really cool too is there was a lot of community of people and visitors that had been there in the past, but also a brand new community, like, hey, this is our first time. Have you been here before or not? So it was so different than going to like a hotel and a resort and the fact that you're like trying to navigate the waters, but there, there is like a feeling of almost home, if you will. So let's just start with this. I think one of the misunderstandings or just in the space of time sharing, I think like a lot of industries we cover on sharing secrets, I think people couldn't even define what time sharing is. I think most people are like, okay, tell me what time sharing is. And you get six different definition. So you've been in this industry for now two decades. Why don't you explain to our listeners exactly what time sharing is and what they can expect when they look further into this industry as a vacation.
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It's a fantastic way to start because they think you're right, Jason, and you made two. And I'm going to tell you what the two words you use which I really like, community and home, those two words really describe the timeshare ownership experience. People belong to a community, people having a second home. And when you think about what timeshare is, because the concept itself, let's look at the way that it's really made its way through business today. The idea that of the sharing economy, the timeshare as a concept came around about 50 years ago, the United States. And if you think about it in a real basic way, I get the chance on a annual basis, year after year, I have the right, I own the right to kind of go to these fantastic resorts and have an experience for however much time I'm able to afford or I want to buy. So if you look at it from a real basic, basic standpoint, it's the right to, to go back to a resort on an annual basis year after year. It's sometimes for forever, kind of like any type of real estate ownership. And sometimes there might be a number of years associated with the timeshare product, but it is the chance to vacation in incredible resort like locations with resort amenities and in places where people have a desire to go. It can be drive to destinations, it could be flying. There's so many different ways to experience timeshare. But if you look at the product that way, it's really basic. And if you look at the way it's been copied, it's all throughout society today. I mean, look at Uber, look at Netchats, look at all the different type of co ownership of homes. There's so many different way that you see the way the sharing economy has really taken the timeshare concept and really evolved it.
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Yeah, it's really cool. I had no idea that it's been around for over 50 years. And it is interesting to see all the different models kind of try to replicate it and the highs of those models and maybe some of the lows, like, you know, like an Airbnb model or like going into like another rental or something. Like there was this huge spike and you know, from my analysis, you're seeing a lot of pullback there. So let me ask you this. If I, if I'm. So I'm getting ready to plan a vacation for 2026, it's been a, you know, a crazy holiday. We all know how stressful that could be. And I'm getting ready to go. Or anyone listening to this is what are some major pain points or major descriptive points that you would say, okay, this is how you know as you're planning your vacation that you should consider a timeshare.
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So one, I think if you're looking for, let's start with the space. So we'll do the basic with the accommodations. Because there's a number of ways for us to approach this. If you're traveling with a group and Jason, I've got a couple of kids, I've got teenagers in the house and when we travel, the least, I would say the least thing I'm interested in is having all of us pile in the one bedroom and have, and stay in two Double beds, straight. It just, just is not happening. That's not a vacation for me. That's just a. That to me is just a room to put my stuff in. But if you're looking at the idea of traveling with your family, or let's say friends, multiple people, multiple families, even multiple generations of families, you need bedrooms, multiple bedrooms. It's fantastic to have a living room. Nobody wants to sit there eating their dinner on the bed. So really having yourselves a full kitchen, the opportunity to have a meal in if you want to, or if nothing else, just have some milk and cereal in the fridge. And also to have the safety and security of professional management. And I think that's really important that when you're looking at these type of holiday trips, you want these trips to go off without a hitch. And you don't want to have a leaky faucet, you don't want to have a bathtub that stopped up and someone not getting there to fix it for days. That could absolutely be a deal killer. So if you need that safety and security, you want to know there's professional management, you want to know there's all that space. And quite frankly, if you also want to know about all these experiences you can have once you get to the resort, that's a huge part of whether or not timeshare is good for you.
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I love it. One of the things I've heard a lot of people submitted some questions about this is they were asking, if you go into a timeshare, can you then only go to that specific property, that specific door? Right? Like, is that the case?
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No. And that's one of the things that people, again, the biggest misconceptions kind of goes to, I buy and I can't go back. I have to go back to the same place every year. Now, mind you, there is that product that's out there. But today's modern timeshare product is very flexible. Oftentimes you're buying some kind of real estate, but ultimately it gets presented to you as a points. Just like you've got any hotel rewards program, you've got yourself like an airlines program, your airline, frequent flyers, you get points that equate to a certain number of, let's say, stays or a certain type of unit. So for the traveler who's looking for flexibility, and you buy into these systems, you know, not only can you determine how long you want to go, but you can also go multiple destinations, all, you know, and all in one trip. So you get a chance to sort of piece together your vacation the way you want to. Unless you of course, there's that chance. And this is the flexibility of the product. If you really, really want Ski Week and you really, really want to go to Breckenridge every year, there are products out there that you can get that product. But if you're someone who's looking, and even then, if that's what you've got, there's still some great exchange companies out there. So even if your timeshare, where you own your timeshare system, does it have all the resort locations you want, you can get to thousands of properties all around the world through exchange.
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Yeah, that's what I liked about it. Like, even when I was going through my process of selecting, like where I was going to go, there was options and it was customized. So I took the survey that you guys had, and based on the survey, it kind of told me and put me in the direction of the type of vacation I needed. And then it gave me those options. And what I think in today's world is like customization is so important as opposed to like this cookie cutter approach. And then once I arrived, it did feel like I was in a place that was it like, like an ownership place. Like you owned it, but you had the luxuries of like a resort. Like there was a service, that room service that came in and cleaned everything overnight. So like you had the luxuries of a resort, but you had the feeling of home. And it was a customized approach, which I think is cool. Now I'm into the industry a little further. I did some research, it looks like in 2025, and you being a CEO, president, correct me if there's any numbers that you see on data database that are different than this, but US travel spending is projected to grow 1 this year at $1.35 trillion. And they're saying that the entire US travel spending by 2029 will hit almost $1.5 trillion. So there's a lot of change. But we're also seeing some turbulence too, right? I mean, I think with the government shutdown, I was in the airport. You saw a lot of pullback in travel as well. But we've seen that timeshares have stayed strong. What would you say about this sector has allowed it to be so resilient over this five decades span?
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Yeah, this, this. I would say I've almost 30 years in the industry and every year I think I maybe finally have finally can stop saying that. I'm surprised because after 30 years I think it's more than just a little trend. I think it's, it's a really a thing. And the resiliency comes for a few different reasons. For one, when somebody buys and commits to vacationing through buying and, and I say this through purchasing because you can also rent timeshares and we could talk a little about that in a minute. So it's a great way to try that. But as an owner, I have now committed, whether it's myself, my family, my friends to vacationing every year. And that's one thing that we find, that's the one great thing, Jason, about being in this industry. It's leisure travel. It's primarily leisure travel. And when that's the case, people want to vacation. And even the last two months, let's take it because you and I probably spent a lot of time on airplanes, which, which we could probably talk about for a long time too. Oh yeah. But if you're looking to say, well, these travels difficult or during the pandemic, when we travel again, it wasn't available to go on a plane to get to your timeshare. Well, I live in the D.C. area and I can get pretty much anywhere on the eastern seaboard in a 12 hour drive. So really if you've got drive to destinations that open up a world of resort and vacationing. So if I own, I make a, I made a reservation and I did this during the pandemic. We made a lot of reservations down to Williamsburg, couple hour drive from where I live, chance to get together with family and friends. We had plenty of space, which is fantastic. We had those multiple bedrooms, lots of outdoor activities. That resilience of that prepaid vacation, the not only economics behind it, but the commitment behind it is strong. And when people make that commitment to vacation and you see it in all of the research we do, we've got a great vacation ownership index study that we do on a monthly basis. It shows every single year that when you take timeshare travelers versus the regular traveler, that a timeshare traveler is significantly more committed to making those reservations and to also making sure you follow through with travel.
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Yeah. And I think just in General, like Finance 101 is when you have predictability with costs, you can forecast your costs and then you could do a better job of allocating the right budget towards what you can and can't afford. When you're using things and suggesting ideas of prepaid, you know that the money is going to be spent, you can budget for it and you know what the cash outflow will be. I'm looking at some Statistics out here, it looks like hotel costs have spiked and decreased, but over a decade, they're up over 30%. I think we can all kind of relate to that. Anyone that travels at incapacity, hotel costs are up 30%. Another thing you touched on in your last answer was this ability to also rent. So talk to me about the costs. You know, if I'm looking into timesharing, you've mentioned things like predictability, we've talked about prepaid, we've talked about a rental option, and we know that the costs of all the competitors right now are moving in a direction that's working against our wallet. So talk to me about how timesharing is working for our wallets. Break down the numbers.
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Yeah, so if you look at the numbers, we'll take a look at it. Because of course, timeshare has initial purchase price, and then once after that initial purchase price, you have an ongoing maintenance fee. You pay just like you would if you live in any type of homeowner association or you live in a condo or a co op. You've got monthly fees to make sure that all the common areas are taken care of. And in the case of timeshare ownership, that means that the furniture inside your unit is getting replaced every few years. So that way it stays nice. The pools are getting resurfaced to make sure they're always going to be beautiful for you and your family and friends to use. So if you look at the ongoing cost and you look over time, what happens, especially after you get through that, say, first five to 10 years, once you've paid off your timeshare and you're traveling just on your maintenance fee, that's exactly where I am today. So I know exactly what my maintenance fee is going to be for this year. I know what it's going to be for next year. I know then exactly how much my accommodations are going to cost me. And so year over, year after, if I look at my maintenance fee payment, and even if I took in consideration how much I paid for the timeshare many years ago, I put the two of those together and say, okay, for roughly, in my case, I pay about $2,000 a year in maintenance fees. I can get two to three weeks worth of vacation and a two bedroom timeshare unit in places like Orlando and places if I want to go to the beach or if I want to go to Williamsburg or even travel out West, California, I can get great value for those two weeks. And when I start breaking down what that looks like against a hotel accommodation, Especially over the last several years where we've seen ADRs really skyrocket and how much it costs you're going to spend for a one bedroom hotel unit, well over $2,000 for a one week of vacation. Once you put in all the taxes and fees and everything else you pay, and the same thing kind of goes for a rental. And I'm not even getting that extra bedroom. I'm not getting the kitchen, I'm not getting the living room. I'm not getting all the amenities. So when I look at this, I think, what are you looking for when you go on vacation? And timeshare can be very much that launch pad, as I'm sure you saw when you were in Key West. There's a lot to do in Key West. Did you want to hang around the resort for a couple of days? Because those pools are gorgeous. There's amenities there, got some music, you got lots of things going on, but it acts as a great launch pad. But when you get back to your timeshare unit, especially if you're traveling with some other folks, yeah, it's great to hang out. It's great to have a bite tea, great to have a beer at the kitchen table. At some point in time, I'm gonna go my separate ways to have my own time. And that's what's the nice part about having all this space.
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Yeah, I think one of even my Key west experience, one of the things I always love about traveling is checking out new places and new restaurants. But at the end of the day, it's really hard to differentiate in a breakfast category. So what we always did was we always cooked at the timeshare for, for the breakfast and then for dinner we go to like all the cool spots. So we saved a couple bucks. With that kind of format. I would, I will tell you ironically, last night I've been a dream vacation for me is to go to Hawaii. So I was looking at like the Four Seasons. Why? I was like, I'm just curious. And on the low end, in the last like six months, the price points were $900 a night. On the high end, over 3,000 a night. Like that is real facts from literally last night with the timesharing breakdown of the cost, you got the initial fee up front and then you have your maintenance costs. You told us what your maintenance costs are. $2,000. After the maintenance costs, what other fees do you pay for the places? Or is it specific to where you end up going and booking?
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Yeah. So one of the things that's great and really about ownership and real estate ownership is that you tend not to see all those same fees you're going to find when you say book a rental through a short term rental website or you're looking to go to some of those fantastic resorts that you were talking about. You know, they're going to have resort fees. Oftentimes you're going to have parking fees. You're going to have of course, all the transient accommodations taxes you're going to pay 18, 20%. And there's, and there's fee after fee after fee. As an owner when you're going to those great locations there can. It depends on some of your city. I wouldn't be surprised if in New York City, where there's a lot of timeshare, you could have some parking costs. A lot of times you don't see parking costs. That comes in right with ownership. You're not going to see those resort fees because you pay for, you're already paying for all your whatever amenities are coming through, your maintenance fee. And you're not going to be sort of, I would say, nickel and dimed as if you were a just a guest that was a transient guest that's going to be there for a couple days. That's again the other side of ownership, which is some of those great brands like you stayed at the Hyatt Vacation Club at Beach House when you're there in Key West. Hyatt is a great brand there in the world and they've got great owners. They have loyalty programs. They want people committed to them. They want to be comfortable that you're going to be somebody who's extremely happy with the brand, that you're going to want to come back year after year and hopefully tell your friends about it. So when you're breaking down those costs, you do have your maintenance fees. And that's pretty much kind of it as far as those extra fees and costs that are baked into your vacation. And that's again what makes it so predictable and I think easy on the budget and easy to predict exactly what your vacation costs are going to be. And you know, quite honestly, we go back to Hawaii. That's where I honeymooned. I honeymoon at a timeshare and we sort of saved a lot of money. We were at a timeshare and we bought art. So it was like for now we've got this for well over 20 years. I have an artwork on my walls that I don't think I could have afforded if I had to pay all that money for accommodations. And so that to me, worked out. It worked out great.
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Yeah. Whether it's honeymoon travel, leisure travel, it feels like if you are someone who consistently looks at your year and you think at some point I'm gonna need a break, might be five days, three days, it might be 14 days, you're gonna need a break, you're gonna want to travel. It's in your blood. When we talk about the financials, you're going to get a better return over the long run, assuming that you are someone who enjoys doing a vacation. The other thing too I think about now is with the rising cost of real estate. Yes, there are families and people out there that can afford two homes, a reside in a, in a home that is a vacation home. But to do that effectively and to carry all those costs, given the increase in real estate prices, that's a tough burden to take on. And I think if you're someone that has that dream and has that desire, but financially you're not there. This really serves as a nice unique place to be when you consider that when you talk about, you know, trading secrets, we do talk dollars and cents here. So I got to ask a little bit about this. But the initial costs up front, if someone right now is interested in they're like, listen, I fit the bill for like what would be a good return and good value to pursue this. What can they expect from those initial costs?
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So if you're looking at the average price of a timeshare, give you a two bedroom one week equivalent, around $25,000. That's kind of mark area according to our latest research. And of course that number could fluctuate all depending on what kind of accommodations you're looking for. If they're luxury, maybe something a little bit more mid scale. There's a number and there's a number of people and ways to sort of understand the cost. And a little bit of that too also is looking at sort of where you're buying as to who you purchase with is also important because you've got a lot of great independent hospitality brands that are out there. We also have a lot of brands that are associated with really large hotel and hospitality names. That which is a great, great benefit, a great tie in which is the ability to then move from your ownership into a hotel loyalty program. Take your Marriott timeshare and convert it into Marriott bond volume points. Use your Hilton honors points to be able to convert it into a stay at a timeshare for a Hilton great vacation timeshare. There's a lot of neat ways when you're looking at the value you get for those dollars and the amount of time and what type of accommodations you're looking for.
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Yeah. And I think again, like just going back to the last point, like that's the initial cost, but then once that cost is, is is put to to work, the longer that you are utilizing the product, the more value over the 10 year that you're getting, the more return and like you're in someone like your shoes and you have your maintenance fee and you're good to go. And maybe you might have a couple other things here there. But it's definitely when you look at the long term, which is what you do in finance a lot, especially with spending, it's, it's the play question for you. I ask almost every leader in an industry that I would try to break down is there's so much movement with how Gen Zs are operating this space. Millennials. So talk to me just a little bit of like how has, how have millennials or Gen Z gravitated to the timesharing space and what are some of your observations as a leader in the industry?
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So I'm going to go back, Jason, to the first thing you're the maybe the second comment you made is when we started this conversation about community and home. All right, so let's go back to community and home for a second because if you look at Gen Z and millennials especially, we'll, we'll take that Gen Z population because that Gen Z population right now is in a real sweet spot for timeshare ownership. For one, as we take a look at Gen Zs, they're more likely to have a family at that age. They're more likely to co own, quite honestly, with either someone as someone outside their house, a parent or friends because they're able to share and they're more interested in the space. And what's really great about that generation is that that generation really grew up most likely having parents that vacationed to timeshares and they have a familiarity with the product. They understand how it works, they understand the benefits. They have a very positive feel because they've been able to create all those memories over all those decades in timeshares. So when it comes to ownership, we're finding that that Gen Z and millennial population, they currently make up a little over 50% of all timeshare owners and they make up 2/3 of all new purchasers. So everyone getting into the product right now fits in that world. Gen Z Millennials. And believe me, when I first saw this saw that statistic. I challenged our researchers probably for almost two years straight. Like, are you sure? Is this real? Are you kidding me? Is this real? It surprised me because you didn't quite think of that many people, because, again, that's a misconception that really only say, baby boomers or my generation. I'm in the Gen X world. Are those the people who are buying timeshare? And you realize that not only are they buying it because they love all of the amenities and experiences that come along with it, they're finding that also through branded partnerships. There's some great branded partnerships out there where people are partnering not only with great, I'd say, lifestyle brands, the folks at Travel and Leisure are partnering with, say, Sports Illustrated and an hour to be able to provide sporting experiences near college campuses or incredible experiences for outdoors enthusiasts. And it's really exciting for me because I get to take my kids and we're going to go to the F1 race in Las Vegas, and I'm going to stay at a timeshare resort. The folks at the Hilton Grand Vacations, they have a huge grandstand and viewing area right at the base of their resort right off the strip. And this is an experience that hundreds, if not thousands of owners are going to be there to experience. I myself am able to go there, too, to enjoy it. And, you know, it's an incredible thing. And I think that's what millennials are looking for. That's what Gen Z's are looking for. They're looking for the chance to not only be with friends and family, to share these experiences with others, have the accommodations that they're so accustomed to. And to your last point, when it comes to real estate and the expense of real estate, it's not cheap to buy a first home is a stretch. But to be able to own a slice of real estate or a slice of vacation time that they know every year, they're going to be able to enjoy with friends and family and say it's theirs. That's big.
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B
That's pretty cool. Especially the F1 example. I mean, you hit the nail on the head. We've heard Hilton already, and we've also heard Hyatt. I'm going to get a little bit to how points can be used in this space, because I think that's a really cool crossover. We've had the points guy on. He's talked openly about. Make sure you're using your points appropriately. Before we do that, I do have a question on the initial expense up front that, like, for your example, the one that you gave of 25,000 can for that amount. Do they have any type of flexibility or payment plans or financing for that or is it require cash up front or does it change based on the situation?
- [26:45]
A
Yeah, I think that's something really important to clear up. So if we look at the way that somebody usually purchases, every developer in our industry offers financing at the table in the point of sale to be able to get somebody into the product. Today, however, that financing always comes with no prepayment penalties. So if you decide to go home and you want to get a line of credit, you got an equity, home equity line that you want to use, you got extra cash, you'd rather put it all on a credit card, for instance, and pay it off and get the credit card points. All of those things are available to you. But yes, you can finance it, you can pay by cash. There are very flexible financing options that are available to consumers if they need a little bit of time to pay it off. So at that point in time you're talking about a monthly payment, whatever you decide is best for you. Or you could take advantage of going ahead and paying that thing off right away. If you decide after, oh, six months or a year, you'd rather go ahead and just take care of the debt, I've got a better way to pay for it. You can do that.
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B
No premium, no prepayment penalty is huge. That's a big advantage when you're looking at a cost like that. Okay, so talk to me about, you know, we have the modern day point based system. We've talked a little bit about it. Talk to me about the, just the integration. You have these big names that some of us hold credit cards with or we hold status and, or we hold points like with the High or Hilton. Talk to me just a little bit, how does that integrate into the timesharing experience?
- [28:08]
A
It's been a great evolution, Jason, over the last 25 years, maybe even 30 years when some of the biggest brands got into the business, such as Marriott was probably the first one to jump into the timesharing space. You saw Disney get into the timeshare space, then Hilton, and then it was Wyndham, which is now Travel and Leisure. You also have the folks, you've got Holiday Inn Club which is part of ihg. You've got a lot of folks who are affiliated with Choice, the Blue Green brand and Westgate Resorts, they have partnerships with Choice. So everyone has seen over time, whether you're a hotel branded timeshare to begin with or you're an independent brand that is looking for additional options and flexibility for your owners. You see them moving to rewards programs. So the rewards programs can get you a whole host of of opportunities, accommodations and experiences. So if you look at the way the things you can do today, like you go to your American Express card and I look at what my membership rewards can get me, right, you can buy computers, you can buy experiences, you can do all types of stuff. If you look at the way you go into and I'll just use Marriott Bonvoy for a second because you could use your timeshare ownership, convert them into these Marriott Bonvoy points into special programs available to timeshare owners. Go to the Super Bowl.
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B
Wow.
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Think about that for a second.
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B
Interesting.
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How can I get to these really cool experiences and how can I use my timeshare to get to them? They're these type of ways to do it. And that's what's really cool about the way the industry has evolved is that it's gotten to a place where I can look at my ownership and think, yep, I can swap for another accommodation somewhere. Sounds great. I want to get to Italy this year. What accommodations are available to me? Or do I want to go to some concert or a culinary experience? And those experiences can be through those points or they can just simply be using your ownership or by virtue of being an owner, you get some incredible experiences that are available to you in the sports world, the music world. There's so much to talk about in.
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B
That space that's pretty cool. I mean, you brought up F1, we brought up the super bowl. But you think about private concerts, sports events, culinary experiences. And that's to me like especially when it comes to finance and consuming, you always have to think about like the double dip, triple dip model. Like what do you do? Like if I'm using this credit card today and I'm spending on something, yes, I'm getting that in return. But what are those points doing? Or like a, you know, health savings account, triple tax advantage. You have a triple dip method right there. But when you're thinking about this a vacation experiences and then also utilizing the modern day point system that is like again the triple dip, which I think is so cool. Now let's talk about the opposite side of this.
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A
Okay.
- [30:50]
B
Life changes. I think this is great. You know, I do vacation a lot. I understand the cost, I understand the financing, the no prepayment I'm in. And then my life changes. I have kids and I have two babies and I just can't travel for those years, what can I do? Like my business brain is going, can I rent it? Can I find a way to actually potentially make income or cover my costs by giving another traveler what I already have ownership to. So what does the exit strategy look like and. Or what does it look like if my life changes and I want to actually rent some of my slice of ownership?
- [31:22]
A
Yeah, that's a great example. We'll just call it the continuum or the, or the entire scale of lifetime of ownership. Right. So there's, how do I get into the product? Maybe I rent, maybe I take a vacation, maybe I'm incentivized to go on a tour and I learned about the product and then I buy. And then after I buy, like you said, there could be those years, where could. What do I do if I can't use it this year? You can absolutely put. You'll give it to a friend to use or family member. So you can make a reservation for friends and family. You can 100% rent it. So there is that chance to go ahead and rent and apply those dollars to whatever your needs are if you want to. And that's great. That's a great option for a lot of owners. Then there also is, you know, what happens if I just can't use it all? And many of our active and not all of our active, the members who are in active sales today have options for you. When it comes to the time when you say, you know, this no longer meets my vacation lifestyle, is there an opportunity for me to give it back? Or even can I go on a secondary market and try to sell it? And in some cases, that's a very much a viable option for timeshare owners.
- [32:26]
B
Okay, pretty cool. I think every industry out there does have bad actors. We'll call it that. Right. Like in, in my space, Talent Management Agency, there's a lot of bad actors out there, but there's a lot of really good ones that do it the right way. We know ARDA is one of those. So what are you guys doing to protect consumers? Like I'm going into my. Protect the audience, protect the consumer base. What's Arta doing to protect consum in this space for once in a while? Like every industry, you see a bad actor too.
- [32:53]
A
Yeah, it happens. It's unfortunate. And we've seen them happen in the timeshare space. And what we've tried to do over the last couple of decades is to really create educational resources to bring awareness to consumers. We recently launched a website called thetcpc.org it is the timeshare Consumer Protection Center. And the reason why we started this website is because we wanted to educate consumers. Uncommon, we'll say, either misperceptions or scams that are out there that could end up costing the millions. And unfortunately, we've seen some, a lot of elaborate scams that prey on, I would say, owners who might be in difficult positions or prey on the elderly in scamming them out of tens of thousands of dollars, ultimately millions and millions of dollars overall. So we try to do your best. And you know, Jason, so much of it is unfortunate is common sense. Some of it is if it's too good to be true, then it probably is. Yeah. We also work state by state. We work with all the different attorneys generals across the United States. We work with the Federal Trade Commission, we work with so many different agencies, and we've even worked with the FBI, for instance, is trying to find ways for people to be able to go and really get educated on what's going on. And we do that for both the timeshare industry. But we really have have a strong focus on timeshare owners. We do that through the ARTA Resort Owners Coalition, which is really a group of people and group of owners who help support ARDA in what it does and help support Arda in trying to make sure that the industry is as, I think, viable as possible and doesn't have these bad actors in it.
- [34:30]
B
Yeah, I like that. The fact that you guys have the Art of Resort Coalition is unbelievable. And then I just want to reference the website again. It's the TPC.org yes, that's it. Okay, we'll, we'll reference that in the show notes. I think consumer protection is so important. Before I go to the next topic, I do want to at least ask, number one, trading secret as a consumer, if, if you think that it might legally look like a little bit of a scam or something to be aware of. This is the number one tip you can give someone. Be aware of this. Stay away from this. What would that be?
- [35:02]
A
Yeah, I'm going to say never. If you listen to somebody who's got an offer that's good to be too good to be true and you're still considering it. Never wire funds.
- [35:13]
B
Oh, that's a good one.
- [35:14]
A
And I say that because you can't get the money back. If somebody says you got to wire money to this account, I need you to do it in order. And it's important. This is the only way we could do this deal, you know, right then and there this is a scam because they want you to wire it, because that's the only way they know the money will land in their account. And it's almost impossible to claw back.
- [35:34]
B
That is such a good trading secret. And that, that goes for almost any industry. Like when someone is saying wire, wire, wire, do your due diligence. As someone in the banking industry, I could tell you when that wire is sent, it is gone. It is, you're not getting it back. So make sure you're doing your due diligence. That is a great trading secret. I love that out there. When we think about this space, we talked a little bit about how it's changing for the consumers of Gen Z and millennials. What's the future look like? I mean, travel is at such a fast pace. I think everything guys, honestly, between social currency, social media, the economy, real estate, the travel industry, it does feel like change is the only constant. So when you have your crystal ball in this space, what are some things that we can expect? What do you think it looks like?
- [36:18]
A
I think travel in general looks to be, and you said it earlier, so personalized. Everyone wants a personalized experience when they go on vacation. And that is even more so when they believe and they are an owner. And then we saw that again, that commitment over the last five to six years. When the world shut down in 2020, people believed they had a right to go back to that resort, even though counties, localities shut everything down. And they said, wait a minute, I'm an owner, that's my second home, I get to go back. They did that and they felt that way strongly. So you realize that people have a passion for this product, they have a passion for it to evolve and they have a passion for technology. Let's face it. I mean, everything can be done with their phone these days, right? Just about everything you need. And they're going to want to make sure that they can go access their timeshare ownership, make reservations, maybe even make plane or train or car reservations. Whatever they need to do, they're going to want it in a one stop shop. And that's one of those things that I think as you see this industry evolve, you know the idea of, of what your experience looks like, it's going to involve technology and it's also going to continue to lean on experiences because we see that as being so key. And it's really kind of hard to put that genie back in the bottle once you've gone to that F1 race. Once they take my kids there, I'm afraid I'm never going to get back.
- [37:38]
B
That's going to have to become an annual tradition, that's for sure.
- [37:41]
A
Yeah, that's okay by me. If you look at that, though, and you realize how much people are going to be looking at the experiences of what they get from their, their ownership, and this actually is proven out in our research that vacation ownership Sentiment Index. You see people, I mean, the first of all, I think it was over 80% of the people last month had you said that their time, they had a wonderful experience on their time vacation, which is great to see, especially in such difficult times. But you also see them expecting more on a routinely basis. They say they expect more from their vacation when they go on a timeshare vacation than just either a rental or a hotel room. And that's again, I love that. That means that the timeshare world has done a really good job of giving them a great experience, which means they expect more.
- [38:28]
B
Yeah, I think it's pretty cool. The numbers don't lie either. I did some research on my end too, just to benchmark it. I saw the 90% of timeshare owners report being happy with their ownership and that the average timeshare vacation is 4.3 trips per year, on average, 6.5 days staying. And I just think right now there's so much education on like, health and wellness. And one thing that like every doctor, every expert is connecting health and wellness to is decreased cortisol and decreased stress. And I think that connects to, you know what, get out in the sun. I could tell you when I was out there, it was a beautiful thing in Key West. That was probably my highlight of this entire year. No work, just vibing out. I will. I'm just kind of curious about the industry consumers that are traveling right now. And you've been in this industry for now two decades. What are some of like the biggest differences you're seeing of how consumers want to travel or where to travel? Just kind of interested in some industry insight.
- [39:19]
A
Yeah. I think when you look back at the where to travel. Right. 20 years ago, I believe the accommodations were the destination. Yeah, I see you were traveling to go to a place. You traveled to a resort, and you spent your time at the resort. And to me, what you did after that was secondary. Now when you look at what everything has option, well, we'll stay, we'll go with Orlando for a second. And you just saw the opening of a fourth Universal park. Right. Epic universe. You start looking at all these places and things to do. You've got all these amusement parks, you have all these attractions. You have so much to do, and that's built up so much over the last 20 years that the accommodations are important, but they become more of the launch pad. They become more of the, here's where I'm going to be for a while. But what are we going to do when we get there? Where are we going outside of the resort? The nice part about the timeshare world is it blends it. You know, there are some, we'll call them mega resorts that have well over 3,000 timeshare units as part of their resort. You know, in those areas you've got water parks, golf courses, mini putt putts, arcades. You've got lots of commercial great restaurants all over the place. It ends up being a place where you can spend two or three days where you don't have to get in a car and go anywhere. As a parent, might be awful nice not to have to lug a stroller everywhere you go. So maybe you just end up staying on resorts for a couple days here and there. But I feel like it's nice to have the options and people want, bare minimum, the option, but they really want the experiences that go along with ownership. And I think that's one thing. Or vacationing. And you've seen that over the last 20 years, for sure.
- [40:54]
B
Yeah. It feels like experience is like the name of the game with consumption right now other than Vegas. This is more of a personal question, but other than Vegas and F1 with your family coming up here, what would you say of all the traveling you've done, the one that's been the most memorable?
- [41:09]
A
So, you know, I think one of them too. You know, we had some great vacations. We had the Caribbean with my family. We had a wonderful vacation last year in Colorado in Breckenridge and a timeshare resort which was phenomenal. We had. We used to staycation when we lived in Orlando when the kids were little, we'd just take them on a quick little staycation. And then even during the pandemic, there's three or four trips we made where I was able to work for my timeshare unit and. Which was fantastic and is another real popular trend.
- [41:38]
B
I didn't think about that for work from. For people that work from home. What a double dip. Like if you can actually vacation while actually like just working in another location to keep mental space clear. I think that's. That's brilliant.
- [41:50]
A
Oh, yeah, you see that? As a matter of fact, that's a big reason why I think that Gen Z and Millennial population, because so many of them are growing up in this hybrid work environment where if you're given the chance to go ahead and work from anywhere, then why wouldn't you want to work from the beach or do so You've got separate bedrooms, so you can go and have your privacy. You can do whatever calls and work you need to be done. And it gives you a great option to be able to then just, you know, 5 o' clock comes around, check out and head to the tiki bar. And so I think that's just this fantastic option that you see when you've got timeshares in all types of destinations, whether it's beach, ski, mountain, you name it, outdoors, water parks, a lot of. With indoor water parks up in the Northeast, I think it's great, you know, especially urban locations. New York, you've got them, and you've got a great timeshare resort in Austin, Texas, you see them in San Francisco, you see them in San Diego. So it's really neat. New Orleans, great locations, great city locations, and also some wonderful vacation destinations.
- [42:48]
B
It's brilliant. Yeah. I mean, you said New Orleans, you said Super Bowl. I think about it. We've gone to super bowl with our agency now every year, the last five years. And like, I think when you have an annual place that you go to either with a company or with yourself or with your significant other or family like this, this makes so much more sense and is way more economical. So it's. It's pretty cool. My big question is the call to action. So someone's listening to this. They want to know more, they want to learn more. What's the next steps? Like, where would you suggest we start? Here, I think, because this is one of the first weekends I have off in a long time and I'm writing books somewhere like, you've sold me. Put me on a beach, baby. You're on a beach right now. I'm in.
- [43:25]
A
Yeah, I am, too. It's starting to get cold up here where I am, but I think I'm all ready for warmth. So it is, you know, when you look at, you know, kind of where you want to go, I think the first place you want to start learning about it is we got some great resources on the website called gotimesharing.com it gives you a great way to take a look at, you know, is timeshare right. For me, for instance, and I think that's the first thing you were looking for, and what type of locations exist and what Are the areas where I like to vacation, are they timeshares? There's a great number and you can find them all throughout. Our members and all the members that we mentioned earlier all rent. So you can go directly to their websites, you can go to them and they all have opportunities for you to be able to book a stay rent. Check it out, get an idea for whether or not timeshare might be right for you. And really if you look at it and we get this question quite a bit, you know the difference between short term rentals and timeshares. Are they competitors? Are they in the same set? And I think for your listeners at all, it's kind of interesting to know that if you go on so many of those third party rental platforms and search, I'm looking for a multi bedroom resort style amenity or accommodation, some of the first ones you're going to see pop up are timeshare resorts because they're all there. So you can get to timeshare resorts and you can end up booking stays by doing, by getting there many, many different ways.
- [44:44]
B
Interesting. And again it comes to that, like just that example right there comes down to the customization which I think is brilliant. And I also think like, I'm just thinking for myself personally like going into the holiday season, I'm so much more keen on giving like experiences as gifts as opposed to like material items. And I think this could like make a really cool gift for my parents, like something like this, you know, getting them timeshare, something like that. So gifting is coming up. Everyone get locked in.
- [45:12]
A
Pretty cool.
- [45:12]
B
Really awesome to learn about an industry that I feel like there's, there's so much, so many facts out there, but also there's fiction and to kind of navigate through it and learn more about it is fascinating. Before we get your trading secret, the golden, the blanket question, is there anything about this industry that you can educate our consumers on that we haven't discussed that you think we need to know as we kind of go into vacation planning for 2026, I just happen to.
- [45:37]
A
Go back to some of our earlier points that the misconception that for some reason timeshare is on a moderate way to vacation and I think it's important for them to understand that if somebody says oh no, you don't want to do, do that, it's no good or it's not for you is to consider exactly how you vacation and consider what you're looking for for your family, for your friends. And if it's those accommodations, great accommodations, great Experiences, professional management, safety and security. That's a big one too. Right. And that ability to be able to, if you want to rent it, to check it out or be an owner and be part of that community and a community of owners that are so committed to vacationing. I think it's worth doing the research and checking out to see if it's right for you.
- [46:21]
B
I love it. It's like we talk about this all the time on this show. There's so many just nonsensical, cliche blanket statements out there that are dated and they're just not true. One of them being like, in real estate, don't rent, you're throwing your money away. That's not true.
- [46:36]
A
Actually.
- [46:36]
B
If you look at like price to rent ratio, you understand the city. You have to understand what your needs are, what the costs are. The numbers don't lie. Renting actually might make more sense than buying a home in today's industry. It depends where you're at, what it looks like financially. And I think that's such a good point that these people that just put blanket statements on things, they're just wrong. And you have to understand what it is you're looking for. Then do the analytics of the numbers and see what makes most sense. And I think when we live by these old adages, we can really get caught behind and not be doing the best for ourself as it comes to earning, spending, consuming, and you know what, even vacationing.
- [47:11]
A
Yeah. I think people, they have to do a little work themselves and I think that's what we often tell people is that it's. Sometimes you've got to put a little sweat equity into your research and understanding. The answer won't always be on your Instagram feed or TikTok.
- [47:26]
B
Right.
- [47:27]
A
Yeah. Right away. Is it going to tell you in 30 seconds what's right for you? You've got to kind of do a little bit of research, which is great. Do looking around, I mean, check things out, see what's right for you, do some exploring and, you know, be patient and figure out what's right. And I think once you do that, then you're really happy with your decision at the end of the day.
- [47:45]
B
I love it. And I think we'll wrap with this. Don't forget, if it sounds too good to be true, don't be wiring money unless you've done your due diligence. That gone. All right, Jason, let's wrap with the trading secret. So interesting to learn more about this industry. All the links we discussed here will be in the show notes. Go check them out or the Trading Secrets podcast page. Or you can go to go timesharing.com But Jason, one trading secret could be about the time sharing industry, about your, your experience, whatever it might be. But it's specific to you can't learn it from a textbook or a professor TikTok tutorial online. We can only learn from your experience. What can you leave us with?
- [48:22]
A
I'm going to say my life, both personal, professional, you name it, has always relied upon doing the unusual. And when I look at the way that I got my first job or even my second job or got into some schools that I maybe should or should not have got into, I went, you have to do what everybody else is not doing. For my first job, before I got my first job as a lawyer, I went door to door to law firms in the city where I was living with resumes in hand and went to the front desk and asked to speak to the managing partner of about 30 or 40 law firms. And you know, you realize today when you see the way that so much takes place in business, the fact that there's so many, just, just apply online. We don't want to see you, we don't care.
- [49:04]
B
Yeah.
- [49:05]
A
What is the value of a handwritten note? What is the value of showing up in person? The worst they can tell you is no. And if you didn't think you were shooing for the job to begin with, well, then there was nothing lost. And I think so many people fall into the category of doing what they're told or following that rule that they don't think to themselves, what is it that got people really a job in the first place? And, and I'm reminded of the story, I won't go into the whole one, but there was an entrepreneur who, his name, I'll give his name was Weldon Wyatt is his name. And he was inspirational to me because he's the one that sat in Sam Walton's office for three days in Bentonville, Arkansas. And he was a high school dropout, sat in his office for three days demanding to see Sam Walton because he wanted to build Walmart. And after three days, Sam walked by him, after three days straight, saw him sitting in his office and finally on that fourth day, said, okay, come on in, let's talk. And before you knew it, he ended up building not one, but hundreds of Walmarts and many other things over his career, became incredibly successful at business. But it was all because he first didn't take no for answer or no. He did Something that was unusual, and I think that is extremely important today's day and age. Do something that everybody else is doing, you will stand out one way or the other.
- [50:24]
B
Wow. I love it. I think that Trading Secret also connects to this industry, the one that we discussed. And I think that Trading Secret, like, we have had, you know, we've had billionaires come on this podcast that became billionaires from the pest control business or from a product like raising canes and chicken tenders. We've had some of the most outlying athletes who are hall of Famers and golf, football, and baseball, actors, musicians, comedians, the whole gamut. And I will tell you, one of the biggest trading secrets I always see from all of them is they're doing something different. They think different, they act different, they execute different, and they break. What I always call, like, my mantra to it is like breaking the blueprint. It's doing something outside of the norm to achieve what you want. And if you continue to go through life listening to like some of these old adages or these old things or just doing the blueprint that you're supposed to fit into, you're going to get the results that are. Are so expected, and you're not going to achieve kind of like that outlying feeling of success and differentiate. And I think that connects to your story, that connects to a lot of the guests that we have on the show, but also just like the timesharing industry, you know, So I think that is. That's pretty cool.
- [51:33]
A
And you could do what. I also own, like a timeshare too.
- [51:36]
B
Yeah, exactly, exactly. And I think, yeah, I think one of the trading secrets I took away from this episode, I always like to share. That is, I think I, I love your approach of like, hey, this is what we do. This is how we do it. It's customized. But, like, I don't need to sell you on the industry. The best way to sell yourself on something is just do a little research. Right. I think so many of us are just handed things. Sign here. Press hard. And why are the money like, that's so not a way to be living in today's world, which is so ever changing, which I love that approach. So, Jason, I appreciate you being on Trading Secret. This was so much fun. Where can everyone find everything you have going on and just give us, us all the information that we need to know about Arda, go timesharing.com etc.
- [52:19]
A
Yeah, there we've got some great resources you can find us. Actually, we're on lots of different social media channels. Arda is. Yeah, LinkedIn, Instagram, you can find us on Facebook, our website@www.arda.org and that gotimesharing.com site. You can find everything timeshare there you want to know. And I'm glad that we talked a little bit of all that those consumer protection. That's the TPC.org where we've got all that good consumer information out there.
- [52:46]
B
I love and I post on my personal Instagram page right now, Jason underscore Tardick about how you can enter to win a free vacation. So just go to that go timesharing.com post. You'll be able to get all that information. Jason, thank you so much for being on this episode of Trading Secrets.
- [53:02]
A
Hey, thank you for having me Jason. I appreciate.
- [53:06]
B
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