283. Hayley Scamurra: Olympic Gold & the Business of Women’s Hockey

Summary

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Trading Secrets Podcast Episode 282 Summary

Hayley Scamurra: Olympic Gold & the Business of Women’s Hockey

Date: March 16, 2026
Host: Jason Tartick, Audioboom Studios
Guest: Hayley Scamurra, Olympic Gold Medalist & PWHL Star

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Episode Overview

In this episode of Trading Secrets, Jason Tartick welcomes Hayley Scamurra, a key member of Team USA’s women’s hockey team and professional player in the PWHL. Fresh off her gold-medal win at the 2026 Winter Olympics, Hayley dives into her journey from youth hockey in Buffalo, NY, through her rise in the sport, to the business realities of women’s professional hockey. The discussion covers Olympic triumphs, personal finance, league evolution, pay disparities, mental health, and career navigation as an elite female athlete.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Olympic Experience & Mental Game

• Gold Medal Details [02:39–04:31]:
  • Hayley discusses the physical weight and design of her gold medal, noting that this year’s are silver, gold-plated, and heavier than previous years, leading to some ribbons breaking.
  • Nerves before the gold medal game: Describes unexpectedly calm confidence in herself and her team.
  • Quote:
    “As soon as I started playing, it just felt like a hockey game. I felt really confident in myself and my teammates.” [04:21, Hailey Scamurra]
• Staying Focused Under Pressure [05:06–05:43]:
  • Hayley employs breathing exercises (four deep breaths in and out), positive self-talk focusing on her strengths, and shifting focus onto supporting her teammates.
  • Quote:
    “Focus on others and how you can help them and it’ll help you.” [05:35, Hailey Scamurra]
• Pre-game Rituals & Superstitions [05:43–06:22]:
  • Consistent pregame playlists and routine games like “sewer ball” keep her grounded.
  • Top playlist includes Bad Bunny and Drake.

Olympic Village & Celebration

• Celebration After Gold Win [06:59–08:03]:
  • Champagne and goggles in the locker room.
  • Surreal post-win party where Snoop Dogg and French Montana performed.
  • Hayley was randomly drug-tested immediately after the gold-medal game.
• Interacting with Other Athletes [08:05–08:54]:
  • Connecting with figure skaters Alyssa Liu and Amber Glenn, learning from their high-stakes approach in individual sports.

Career Evolution: Youth, College, and Early Professional Years

• Early Aspirations & Reality [13:54–16:43]:

  • Growing up, she wanted to be an Olympian, playing on boys’ teams coached by her father—a former NHL player.
  • Lack of visible female hockey role models impacted her expectations.
  • Initially anticipated leaving hockey after college, majoring in Speech & Language Pathology at Northeastern.
  • The mindset shift via sports psychology: Focus on excelling where you are, not just chasing the national team.

• Breaking Into Professional & National Teams [16:43–19:47]:

  • After college, drafted by the Buffalo Buttes, making just $3,000–$7,000/year.
  • Living at home, attending grad school, and playing pro hockey at a deficit.
  • US National Team opportunity emerged during grad school; she quit to pursue hockey full-time.
  • Quote:
    “I got nothing to lose. Just leave it all out there...and then that’s how I made my first world roster in 2019. And I quit grad school.” [17:32, Hailey Scamurra]
  • The mental breakthrough (letting go of the fear of mistakes) drove her performance to new heights.

The Business of Women’s Hockey

• Financial Realities & Pay Disparities

  • Pro League Salaries [23:05–24:12]:
    • PWHL average salary: $45,000–$50,000/year, low end $38,000, high end $120,000.
      • Hayley: makes above average ($60,000 in Ottawa on a two-year deal).
    • Women on national team received stipends from USA Hockey (after a hard-won 2017 compensation agreement) and the US Olympic Committee.
  • Olympian Earnings [36:59–37:28]:
    • Olympic gold brings $20,000 from the USOC + $37,500 from USA Hockey (~$57,500 total).
    • Silver medalists get around $22,000 less from USA Hockey.
  • Quote:
    “You waited six years to make an actual decent living as a pro athlete. Which is insane, but that's the reality.” [22:22, Jason Tartick]
    • Early "pro" years were essentially unpaid; only after pro-unionization and league merger did viable salaries emerge.
  • First True Pro League [20:06–22:38]:
    • Formation of the PWHL required years of advocacy and a players’ union.
    • Pre-PWHL, her main income was from national/Olympic stipends, not professional play.

• Player Mobility & Agents [24:43–27:32]:

  • All PWHL players must have agents for contract negotiations and trades.
  • No-trade clauses are not standard; Hayley was traded unexpectedly from Ottawa to Toronto and played her old team the next day.
  • Free agency allowed her to choose Montreal for the 2025 season, but only a few athletes earn true six-figure deals, even after a decade in the sport.
  • Quote:
    “With the trade, we didn’t know. I didn’t ask for a trade, that was completely like out of the blue for me...that by far is one of the craziest games I’ve had to play in.” [25:32–26:31, Hailey Scamurra]

• Retirement & Benefits [29:03–29:31]:

  • PWHL offers a retirement plan, but as an American in a Canadian market, Hayley doesn't fully benefit.

• Endorsements & Post-Olympics Fame [30:01–36:39]:

  • Gold medal leads to a “tenfold increase” in exposure vs. silver, affecting interview requests and sponsorship opportunities.
  • No major sponsorships yet; gifts from brands like Abercrombie, interest from Nike, but no big contracts post-gold—still seeking new deals.

Reflections on Growth, Advocacy and the Future

• Moving the Needle for Women’s Sports [28:16–29:03, 39:28–39:58]:

  • PWHL players begin at better footing, pay-wise, than WNBA and NWSL did in their early years but believe much more is needed.
  • Outspoken advocacy: “We’re done with the breadcrumbs. We want the whole cake... we have to keep elevating.” [39:27, Hailey Scamurra via Billie Jean King]
  • Hayley credits veterans like Hilary Knight and Kendall Coyne Schofield for pushing tirelessly for improved conditions.
  • Trading Secret: “Always fight for what you deserve. Don’t just accept the bare minimum.” [45:49, Hailey Scamurra]

• Olympic Rivalries & Team Dynamics [30:21–33:14]:

  • Friendships across national lines are put aside on the ice; intense rivalry with Canada heightened during Olympic games.
  • Post-gold, Canadian fans and teammates showed nothing but support in Montreal.
  • Relationships temporarily paused on group chats/texts during the games.

• Olympic Village Life [34:48–36:09]:

  • Contrasts between past and current Olympic accommodations: Milan 2026 was “tiny,” akin to college dorms, making for an intimate and communal athlete experience.
  • Dining, mindfulness spaces, and merchandise sponsorships part of daily life.

• Navigating Public Scrutiny & Advocacy [41:50–42:29]:

  • Addressed political backlash (referencing public comments by former President Trump) following the team’s win; focused on the overwhelming support from fans and public figures as a counterbalance.
  • Quote:
    “I think that’s huge because I didn’t love the precedent it set to young girls…I have mentees that I work with as a mentor and they were hurt by that.” [42:01, Hailey Scamurra]

• Looking Forward: Career Ambitions & Mentorship [33:42–34:39, 46:09]:

  • Hayley is open to a mix of continued play (“as long as my body’s feeling good”), coaching, media, and mentoring youth players.
  • Runs a mentorship program and co-hosts “Our Kids Play Hockey” podcast.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Mindset in Big Moments:
  “Name concrete things that you do out there that’s second nature to you. And that always helps me a lot… taking the focus off yourself and focus on your teammates, that's a huge benefit to me as well.” [05:06, 05:35, Hayley Scamurra]

• On Early Career & Professional League Formation:
  “We decided that we deserved a true professional league because the NWHL wasn’t truly professional... it took three years of us just going rogue basically and having showcases while we waited.” [20:06, 20:52, Hayley Scamurra]

• On Pay and Progress:
  “We obviously want to see higher salaries... but we have to keep expecting more because we’re not done yet.” [28:20, 39:28, Hailey Scamurra]

• On Gold vs. Silver:
  “The amount of people I’ve talked to, the amount of interviews, tenfold increase I would say based off getting gold versus silver.” [30:10, Hayley Scamurra]

• On Advocacy & Mentorship:
  “We’re done with the breadcrumbs. We want the whole cake. We’re not satisfied with this. And just because we’re asking for more does not mean we’re not grateful for what we have.” [39:28, Billie Jean King quote via Hailey Scamurra]

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Important Timestamps

• [02:39] – Introduction, gold medal specifics
• [04:02] – Mindset before gold medal game
• [05:06] – Breathing & psychological strategies
• [06:59] – Gold celebration, Snoop Dogg party story
• [13:54] – Youth ambitions, lack of female pro role models
• [16:43, 17:32] – Early financial struggles and journey to Team USA
• [19:01, 23:05] – Team USA compensation, league salaries after unionization
• [24:43] – Trade experience and agent insights
• [27:49] – Free agency and contract realities
• [36:59, 37:28] – Olympic gold/silver monetary rewards
• [39:28] – Advocacy for fair pay and future ambitions
• [41:50] – Navigating negative public attention
• [45:49] – Final trading secret: “Fight for what you deserve.”

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Conclusion: Key Takeaways

• Hayley Scamurra’s path showcases perseverance amidst limited early pay, transformative mental shifts, and steadfast advocacy for women’s pro hockey.
• The business side of women’s hockey is racing to catch up with its surging popularity, but player compensation and benefits still have progress to make.
• Her story is powerful not only as a gold medalist, but as an outspoken proponent for the next generation—and for demanding more than the “breadcrumbs.”
• Through it all, the love of the game, personal discipline, and the importance of community and mentorship shine through.

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For more on Hayley Scamurra’s journey, find her on Instagram @hayleyscamurra and tune in to “Our Kids Play Hockey.”

Transcript

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[Podcast Host]

Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today's guest is an Olympian, gold medalist and and PW HL star Hailey Skamura, a key member of Team USA's women's hockey team that brought home the gold medal in this past Winter Olympics. From the grind of elite training to competing at the biggest stages in sports, Haley has experienced what it takes to chase a dream, represent your country and win at the highest level. Today we're talking about her journey in the medal life. Representing her country, her representing Buffalo, New York. Of course. We got to talk a little bit about the Olympic Village and what it takes to become one of the best hockey players in the world in all things. You have seen this sport within women's hockey grow at a level that is unprecedented. Selling out arenas all across the world. Haley, welcome to Trading Secrets.

[Hailey Skamura]

Wow, great intro. Thank you so much for having me.

[Podcast Host]

It is an honor. The big question I know everyone's going to ask is you do you got the medal? You got the medal around?

[Hailey Skamura]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

Let's go. I heard this is one of the most expensive metals of all time. How heavy is that thing?

[Hailey Skamura]

If you had to guess, I've actually Weighed it. It's over a pound.

[Podcast Host]

That's like pure gold.

[Hailey Skamura]

It's silver but gold plated.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, silver, but gold plated. But there were a lot of rumors in the Winter Olympics this year about medals breaking. Is there validity to that?

[Hailey Skamura]

There is, actually. So this one's good. Apparently they fixed them, but at the beginning when people were celebrating and jumping, the metal falling off the ribbon, they must not have had a strong enough ribbon for the weight of the medal.

[Podcast Host]

Did any of your teammates have that issue or not?

[Hailey Skamura]

Apparently Megan Keller, when she was on snl, they had to sew her ribbon back together because apparently it was breaking.

[Podcast Host]

That is absolutely insane and so many questions to ask you. But while we're on the topic, just going into that gold medal game, the rivalry between Canada and us is unbelievable. The history is long and deep and especially even I could say great. Growing up playing AAA hockey, when we would go play and Bud, where would we go play? We'd go play across the board, Bud Bakewell. We'd play in Ontario, we play Ottawa, go up to Toronto. It was almost like a war. It felt like at times. And those guys hit before us, so they hit hard. What were the nerves going into that gold medal game?

[Hailey Skamura]

You know what? It was one of the more calm times I've probably been before a gold medal game, which I know is insane to say. I just had so much confidence in our whole team. I was like, we've got this. We keep playing the way we've been playing. We've been dominating this whole tournament. We'. So I weirdly felt confident. I think as soon as I stepped on the ice, the moment I'm like, okay, this is the gold medal game at the Olympics. It's really happening. The fans are filled. So then it hit me a little bit then. But then as soon as I started playing, it just felt like a hockey game. I felt really confident in myself and my teammates.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, this is a career in finance podcast, and it's tough to tie on a stage like that to people that are at home. But I will tell you, there are people at home that give presentations. Or it just. It might be a teacher that's doing literally their first day on the job. It could be any type of profession, a nurse that's working with a patient. And people often sometimes crack under the pressure. It gets intense, your palms get sweaty, you lose focus. What are things at that stage that you do at that level? They'll stay dialed and ignore kind of the stage that's set and just focus on what's in front of you. What are some of the tactics or training secrets you got?

[Hailey Skamura]

I focus on my breathing. So if I do ever get nervous, I do four deep breaths, four seconds in, four seconds out. I focus on things that I'm really good at, so I remind myself of my skill set. So I'm a really physical player. So it's okay. As soon as I get out there, I'm going to win my battles, win my board battles. Name concrete things that you do out there that's second nature to you. And that always helps me a lot. And then honestly, even just talking to teammates, just giving them a tap, telling them something that they did really well out there, taking the focus off yourself and focus on your teammates, That's a huge benefit to me as well. And I feel like can go in any workplace is focus on others and how you can help them and it'll help you.

[Podcast Host]

I love it. Superstitions are big amongst hockey players. Do you have any superstitions before the game? You do anything on a routine basis?

[Hailey Skamura]

You know what? I was listening to the same music in the same order on the way to the rink. They were just songs that were really vibing with me, I feel. And I was like, okay, I gotta start at the same song and have it just go in order the whole way. We had a 20 to 30 minute bus ride depending on which rink we were at. But then other than that, I'm pretty chill. We play like sewer ball, which is like a soccer game before our warmups off the ice. And as long as I get a good game in like that, I'm good to go.

[Podcast Host]

People are gonna ask, so I gotta ask you, what's the number one song on that playlist?

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Oh.

[Hailey Skamura]

Oh my gosh. What was it called? Honestly, some bad bunny was on there after his super bowl performance. The Prigunta one, I think is what it was called. I like that one a lot. Yeah, that was on there. Some Drake. Can't go wrong with that money in the grave, I think it was. Yeah, there was more.

[Podcast Host]

That's good playlist. I do have more Olympic questions. I'll save them to the end because I want to hear a little bit more about your story leading up to the Olympics. Before go there though, the last thing I gotta ask you, how do we celebrate? What? I mean, what were we drinking? Do you drink? Did you guys party? Did you party for five days straight? What was the celebration?

[Hailey Skamura]

We definitely drank. There was champagne and beers in the locker room after we had the ski goggles and everything to Celebrate. I actually got drug tested, though, after the Games. That was sad. Everyone gets randomly drug tested throughout the tournament, and mine was after the gold medal game. So sad. However, still party with everyone after. Lots of champagne and drinks, for sure. And then, honestly, we got to celebrate the whole time because we were done with our competition, but we were still there for four more days. So every day, we did something. And so the coolest part was we went to this club, and this was, like, two days after winning, and we had heard Snoop Dogg might show up. I'm like, okay, we'll see. So we get to this club. They cover your cameras, all this stuff. So we're down there, and all of a sudden, he comes in with his posse. People in front of him, behind him, to the side, and he goes up and performs, like, four songs. I was like, this is the best night of my life. We literally are at a concert right now. We're getting all this champagne at our tables. We're with all these other Olympians, the figure skaters, the speed skaters. He's performing. Then French Montana went up and performed. Wow.

[Podcast Host]

That's incredible.

[Hailey Skamura]

Absolutely Olympic level partying. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Olympic level partying. It sounds like that's the dream come true. What is. Who's one athlete? And then I promise I'll go to the next question, but who is one athlete you just. You won't forget meeting that you met that wasn't on your team?

[Hailey Skamura]

Oh, man. There's just so many. I think Alyssa Liu was awesome.

[Podcast Host]

So cool.

[Hailey Skamura]

So was Amber Glenn. We got to meet them and chat with them, and they're just. Their mindset was just so incredible and how they go about their individual performances and even their team performances. I was mind boggled because it's. Their individual performance can affect the whole team. For us, we're out there with the whole team. We have everyone with us. It's so much more supportive and helpful for them. They're on their own. It's almost scarier for the team performance, because if they mess up, they could mess up the medals for the whole team. So I just thought learned a lot from them, and it was really cool to see their mindset going into their competitions.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, now, Hayley, I was reading a little bit, and you first made the Team USA, was it in 2019?

[Hailey Skamura]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

So 2019. And then you go to the 22 Olympics, you go to the 26 Olympics. That's a long time to be a qualified Olympian. What from 2019 to 2026 have you done either physically or mentally to keep you on top of your game.

[Hailey Skamura]

There's so much My journey is definitely unique. I think I made the team later than most people do, and for me I really focused on the mental side of things because I think for that's the hardest part of the game, in my opinion. And I think that was the thing that had to develop the most in order for me to make it to that Olympic level. There's just so much that goes into it to be such a consistent player year in, year out. For every single evaluation, you're always being evaluated in terms of making the team for world championship rosters, for camps for Olympic teams. So you really have to stay on top of it mentally. So I think developing different tools to help me stay calm, help me stay consistent and remind myself why I was there. I think you can get in your head and start comparing yourself to other people, but it's you're there for your game and just remembering why I'm there and continuing to play my game and not trying to be anyone else.

[Podcast Host]

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[Podcast Host]

I love it. One of our common friends is Nate Ruck. Dashiell Nate helped make this introduction and one friend we share in common all through Buffalo, New York is of course Rob Gronkowski. He's been on the podcast and he talked a lot about the the mental aspects of things he did outside of the field to stay in the game. One of the bigger things that he did was what he connects with is just discipline. He's has more discipline than anybody. When you talk about the mental and the physical side of it was there, I don't know, is there anything that you think you would hang your hat on? Do you have, do you have like leadership coaches or therapists or crazy trainers, anything like that?

[Hailey Skamura]

Yeah, I think so. For me, 2019, my dad's always been my coach for as long as I can remember. So he's the one who taught me the discipline and hard work side of things. So I would say my whole life, life I've been really disciplined. That's just something I've always been consistent in and in the hard work side of things. After the 2022 Olympics, I actually started working with my now boyfriend and trainer, Nick Stoop. And he was so helpful in terms of the mental side of things. It's helped me stay so grounded and calm. All the different kind of mental tricks you can do for yourself and remaining confident in different mental affirmations. Actually before this last Olympics we had I am a gold medalist written on a whiteboard and I would write over it every day and kind of say it to myself whenever I would see it or whenever I would think about it. And I think a lot of that was why I stayed so calm throughout the whole Olympics. I just felt so confident in my preparation and. And I just knew it was going to happen. There was just a part of me that knew we were going to win the gold medal.

[Co-host 1]

I love it.

[Podcast Host]

Staying mentally focused, manifesting. Probably helps to have a good trainer and boyfriend on your side too. Living with that 24, seven, that's awesome. You mentioned your dad, right? Former NHL star, had an unbelievable career growing up in Buffalo. When you have a father who played in the league and you aspire to play and you think about little Haley like running around the rink and doing all the things. At that time there really, there wasn't much of a professional scene for women to play hockey at a level that you could possibly monetize and make a career out of. I remember growing up, I would write down I want to be an NHL star. What did it look like for you growing up? What were your aspirations given some of the hurdles, Turtles that even live, especially back then and not any longer, thank God, but in the space of women to play professional hockey.

[Hailey Skamura]

Funny enough, I actually have a little booklet. I was on a boys team that my dad coached and it said I want to be an Olympian. Every other boy wrote NHL player, and I had Olympian. It's crazy. I don't have the memory of it, but it's really cool to see it written out. I clearly was confident in that, and. But I never thought too far ahead. I just played because I loved the game, and I think that's something a lot of women athletes can attest to. For me, my idols were soccer stars, so Abby Wambach was someone I looked up to a lot. There was not really hockey. There wasn't women's players I was seeing on my TV or even, like, in my vicinity. The closest thing was maybe the Niagara College hockey team. But even then, I wasn't thinking, oh, I'll go play college hockey. I didn't know where that would lead. But once I turned 14, that's when people could start recruiting you. And I was like, okay, I guess maybe I'll get a free college education out of it. Why not? And again, no pro league. So I'm just doing it to continue playing the game I love, but also get a free education out of it.

[Podcast Host]

When you're at Northeastern, what did you think? Things change a little bit. Right. That's no longer Haley and the playing with the boys. Right. And that she'll be an Olympian. Things are changing. Things are manifesting. When you're in college, what did you think it would look after college from a career perspective?

[Hailey Skamura]

It's crazy. I. I thought I'd be done with hockey after college, and especially because I wasn't in the US Program at all, so I wasn't making any camps or any evaluations or things like that. And I remember I really sad about it in college, and I actually worked with a sports psych. That was when I first got into the psychology part of things. And his big piece was, be where you are and be the best person you can be and best player you can be for the team that you're on now. And then that will lead you to where you're meant to be. And something so simple just helped me stop focusing so much on, I have to make this US Team in order to be successful. It's like I'm playing Division 1 hockey on a free scholarship. This is incredible. Be the player you need to be for this team, and good things will come out of it. And so I'm really glad I changed that mindset because it just helped me so much, take the pressure off of myself and not focus too far ahead. And that was a huge mental mind shift for me. Going into college and then we found out there was a pro league my senior year, I want to say. So my major at the time was speech and language pathology. And I was like, there's a team in Buffalo, New York, so I'll just tell them to draft me. This is how funny it is, right? They'll know to just pick me. And that's actually how I ended up winning the Isabel Cup. So after my senior year, I had been drafted to Buffalo and literally played in two or three games with them and we won the championship. Say that I went right back to my college classes and then I went to grad school at the University of Buffalo and played for the Buffalo Buttes, making $7,000 a year. Actually, probably less at that point. I bet you it was 3,000 that year.

[Podcast Host]

3,000 a year.

[Hailey Skamura]

A year.

[Podcast Host]

So you're in a. Playing the game of hockey, playing pro women's hockey at that time, you're in a deficit, you're losing money.

[Hailey Skamura]

Correct. And obviously I lived at home. I was doing grad school and I was just like, all right, I'll just keep doing this until I'm done with grad school and then I'll just go be a speech language pathologist. And little did I know, after the first semester, I got recruited by a USA Hockey scout and they wanted me to come to. It was called winter camp at the time. And it was funny because I was at grad school, literally about to take finals. I had taken like a two week break from hockey because I had finals. And I get a call, they're like, they want you at camp, like next week. I go, okay, I guess I'll be ready. And then that's when we had our first rivalry series. So I made a rivalry series roster, which is where we play Canada in a friendly match, if you will. And yeah, it was absolutely insane. So I made that and I go, I got nothing to lose. Just leave it all out there. And then that's how I made my first world roster in 2019. And I quit grad school.

[Podcast Host]

What do you think? Because you see so many pros right now, it doesn't matter what sport they are. You're right. They get picked up when they're 2014, 10 years, when they're 10 years old, when they're 12. I remember growing up in Buffalo, played with Patty Kane. He was in 88 and from squirts to peewees, he was getting picked. What do you think? Obviously you can attest to the fact he became a better teammate. Sports psychologist. But something had to change, right? To get picked, or do you think it was just being seen? How do you back into that?

[Hailey Skamura]

That's such a great point. I think for me, I think the physical piece was always there. I was always in shape. I was always strong. But I think the mental piece didn't allow me to reach my full potential. I think I was always in my head, in a way, afraid to make mistakes, afraid to not be perfect. And once I was able to let that go, I think that's what allowed me to play more free and more like myself and to ultimately play better. And I think scouts could see that, that I was doing more on the ice because I wasn't playing it safe anymore.

[Podcast Host]

Understood. So when you're with the Buffalo Buttes, you said you're making 3,000, 7,000, you're there, you're with them for a couple years. And when you get signed to Team usa, from the financial perspective, how does that look? Do you get a signing bonus? You get paid? What does it look like?

[Hailey Skamura]

So with USA Hockey, I remember, so I don't know how much you know about this, but in 2017, the women's team had to fight for. For pay because they weren't getting paid, like, anything. And they almost boycotted the world championship that year. And then they reached an agreement and were able to get the funding that we deserved in order to play at the highest level. And so what it looked like was we would get a stipend from USA Hockey every month, and then we would also get a stipend from the Olympic Hockey Committee as well. And so that was enough in terms of relatively living wage, I would say, and especially in comparison, obviously, to the professional league, we were making more than that, for sure.

[Podcast Host]

So you're making. At this point, you're making enough to live when you sign?

[Hailey Skamura]

Yeah, but it's nothing crazy.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Okay. Okay. And then. So when you're with the Buffalo Buttes, is it. Is the goal always, of course, to be an Olympian, but is the goal always to then move into Canadian pro league pwhl? What was the career navigation from there that you had your eyes set on?

[Hailey Skamura]

So the NWHL was also. There was also a CWHL at the time. There was two separate leagues happening. So then the CWHL had folded, and then it forced the players to make a decision, and we decided that we deserved a true professional league because the NWHL wasn't truly professional. We're not making enough money. And so we ended up forming a union, which is how the PWHL eventually came to be. Three years later, I Think so. It took three years of us just going rogue basically and having different showcases where we would play against each other and stuff while we waited for this professional league to unfold. And now we're in our third season of the true professional league. So before that the only money I was really making was from USA Hockey and the Olympic committee.

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[Podcast Host]

Trading secrets when you say waiting, I don't think we should overlook this time period.

[Hailey Skamura]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Talking about 2017 right on the Buffalo buttes. And you didn't start playing in the PWHL until 2023. You waited six years to make an actual decent living as a pro athlete. Which is insane, but that's the reality of it. Yeah, okay.

[Hailey Skamura]

Yeah, it was a lot of hard work behind the scenes.

[Podcast Host]

Unbelievable. So then you get. You landed. So the first, I think your first stop was Ottawa. Talk to me about. I mean we, we just don't get to see this stuff and I think it's so important that we do. What does it look like? Finally you're here six years in a lifetime and you're making an actual living playing hockey. Give us perspective. We see these hundred million dollar contracts, we see these 50 million dollar contracts. What does it look like in 2023?

[Hailey Skamura]

So our average salary is probably in the 45 to 50 range. 50,000 a year. The lowest is like 38,000 and then high end, probably they don't. They're not like public yet. Like we're working on that to make it public, but I think it's 120is maybe the highest. So a bit of a range but nothing crazy obviously you hear. But what was really cool. So the first year the league came to be, we had an actual draft. So remember how I told you with the Buttes? It was like I got to tell them where I wanted to go. Not the case. It was a true draft. So we went to. It was in Toronto. Got to go with my family and just sit and wait for my name to be called. And I had no idea which city I'd be called to. And so it was super. Honestly, I think that was the most nervous I've ever been. I was just in my seat just freaking out, not sure when the name's getting called. And then finally hearing it was Ottawa, I'm like, this is real. I'm actually gonna have to move to Ottawa. Like how crazy is this life? But yeah, so I'm like, I'm making a little bit above the average with Ottawa. 60,000 I would say. And signed a two year contract with them for.

[Podcast Host]

First of all, congratulations. Second of all, you guys are paving the way for hopefully what will be very different as we look forward. You sign the contract with them, 60k a year. But then, and this is something I'm just unfamiliar with in the pwhl you get, you got traders a lot, right? You go Ottawa, you go Toronto, then Toronto to Montreal. This is in a three year period. Some questions I have about the business is do you have an active agent that's working for trades on you when you get traded, are your contracts changing? Give us some insight into the PWHL when it comes to that. That.

[Hailey Skamura]

So we all have to have agents. And I actually got my agent. I was one of the first to sign with her with CAA. This was back in 2022. I probably signed with her. But yeah, everyone's required in the league to have an agent to represent you, which is huge, especially with the contract negotiations. She deals with all of that, which is massive. I would not want to have to deal with that. But with the trade, we didn't know. I didn't ask for a trade that was completely like out of the blue for me. I was really happy in Ottawa, so I was definitely sad to leave. And the crazy part of the trade, I don't know how much you read, but we were in Toronto about to play Toronto and I got traded to Toronto the night before the game. So me and my teammate who got traded with me, we had to meet the team the next day at pregame, skate and play against our former team that night.

[Podcast Host]

I can't even imagine. You said that your agent. You have to have an agent and the agents doing the deals. Do you get say or does the agent call you and say, go? Literally go in the other locker room, you're on the other team. Do you get to accept that deal? Or is she just. It's done, it's inked. Go trade. Go put on a different jersey tonight for us.

[Hailey Skamura]

We don't have no trade clauses. We don't have any sort of say at all. So it's just the trade is the trade.

[Podcast Host]

That's insane.

[Hailey Skamura]

There was no choice.

[Podcast Host]

That is absolutely crazy. Okay, so then you go to Toronto and the same night you're playing against your former teammates. It's got to be hard. No? Or are you just, fuck it, let's go. Let's have fun.

[Hailey Skamura]

I was a wreck. I was crying the night before. Oh, my God, it was awful. And then I'm like, how am I gonna play? All these other girls are playing in this game. Like, how is this possible? I couldn't even look at my former teammates. They kept trying to make eye contact with me on the ice. And I go, don't look at me. I don't want to break down right now. I gotta focus. I somehow finished the game, but that, by far, is one of the craziest games I've had to play in.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I literally can't even imagine. But I assume that the players, they have empathy for you. They know you're not making the deal. It's not like you're the Buffalo Bills head coach intentionally to the Patriots in conference. You got traded. It's part of the business.

[Hailey Skamura]

Exactly.

[Podcast Host]

Okay.

[Hailey Skamura]

So I finished the season with Toronto, and then I hit free agency. So is that good?

[Podcast Host]

Usually in professional sports, that's a. That's. They usually means payday.

[Hailey Skamura]

Yes. So that was nice that I actually had control and got to decide where I wanted to go and got to hear the different offers. So again, that was all through my agent and, like, phone was blowing up the day it started, which was super cool. And so getting emails about how much each team would pay me, and then she would counter, and all of a sudden I'm getting a new email, and it was wild. It was such a cool experience. And the first time that I was in the driver's seat, I could decide where to go. And so I took it very seriously. And when Montreal made their offer and I was excited to go to Montreal, I knew some of the coaches there, I knew some of the players there, and I thought it would be a good fresh start for me.

[Podcast Host]

So we finally get this big opportunity now. I want to continue to keep this in perspective because I think it's so important to put in perspective for those that are listening. But you play college, you start playing pro at 2017. It's 2025 that you go to Montreal almost 10 years later.

[Hailey Skamura]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

And at 10 years later, is the deal for the first time over six figures?

[Hailey Skamura]

No.

[Podcast Host]

What the.

[Hailey Skamura]

It's just like I make over six figures with the USA Hockey money combined.

[Podcast Host]

Of course. Yeah.

[Hailey Skamura]

With this salary, that's hugely helpful, obviously. But yeah, no, I would say obviously majority of the girls do not make six figures. I think only a handful of girls make six figures.

[Podcast Host]

And what's your take on that? Before I start going off, what's your take on that?

[Hailey Skamura]

It's hard, right? You just made the point, the perspective how far we have come and we are starting off at a better footing than the WNBA started and the NWSL started. So we're starting higher because of where they've gone. Right. So their starting point was way lower than what our starting point is. So in that sense we're doing well. However, we obviously want to see higher salaries and things that. And it will come. And that's the. The way it goes. Starting at the bottom and starting this process, this historical process to be a part of the ground floor with the pwhl. So in that sense, it's an honor. But yeah, would love to obviously see the players making more money and being able to live comfortably based off of the salary.

[Podcast Host]

Keep fighting, keep pushing for it. It'll eventually get there. Do they get. The NFL players are union and they get some kind of pension. Do they have they worked some kind of arrangement for retirement for you guys yet?

[Hailey Skamura]

They do have retirement plans. However, I have a bit of a thing because I'm American in a Canadian market. And so they only offer a Canadian retirement fund for me, which wouldn't really make sense for me to do. And I can't have it in an American account. Little.

[Co-host 1]

Little.

[Hailey Skamura]

There's little kinks that we would like to have worked out.

[Podcast Host]

I would say they always work the kinks in. All right, so in the 2022 Olympics, you get a silver medal. Correct. And when you win a silver medal like that, does anything else help as far as like outside brand endorsements or do you do for silver medal. I know Team USA gives you a check. It's pretty interior. But does that help the financial trajectory of your career?

[Hailey Skamura]

I would say after a silver you don't hear much.

[Podcast Host]

That's so interesting because now when things with pink you're all over the place. You're left, right and center. So the difference between silver and gold four years later is monumental.

[Hailey Skamura]

Massive. The amount of like support we've had, the amount of people I've talked to, the amount of interviews I've done, tenfold increase I would say based off getting gold versus the silver.

[Podcast Host]

That's unbelievable. I'm glad that's so sweet that you guys got it done. When you're going against going back to the gold medal game a little bit, you've played in living in Buffalo's pretty much living in Canada. Then you've played in Ottawa, you've played in Toronto, you've played in Montreal. You're friendly with a lot of these Canadians that you're going toe to toe with. Does any of that friendship connect in that game or is it full? There's those are checked at the door and it's a whole different element of competition for sure.

[Hailey Skamura]

As soon as those U.S. canada jerseys go on, it's I don't even know them. I completely check out of that. It's full.

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[Hailey Skamura]

We are getting this gold medal. I remember the feeling of silver not happening again. I don't care who I know on that team, I am winning gold. Yeah. It's honestly easier than you would think to put those feelings aside.

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Just go to livemomentous.com and use promo code trading secrets for up to 35% off your first order. That's. That's live. Momentous.com promo code trading secrets. Do you guys. I'm sure you're on text messages and group chats. Some of the Canadian players, like, do you guys just stop communication? You ghost each other until the end of the Olympics? Do you guys talk before the Games? What happens behind the scenes?

[Hailey Skamura]

We weren't really talking much. No.

[Sponsor Voice]

But we.

[Hailey Skamura]

If we saw each other in the village, we would say hi in passing. But we're not texting. We're not doing any of that at all. And then after the fact, it's. We're in the locker room together and it's, hey, congrats. That's you two. And then we let it go. Don't really talk about it anymore after that.

[Podcast Host]

I was going to say, have you seen any type of negative sentiment since going back to Montreal after winning the gold medal?

[Hailey Skamura]

No. No negative. Everyone's been so supportive. They've been so great. Everyone's been congratulatory, which is funny. I obviously have been meeting a lot of the Canadian fans since winning. They're like, we're happy for you. We're sad. I'm like, get it? You don't have to say it. It's fine.

[Podcast Host]

In general, like, the macro level, all Canadians are nice. Right. So sorry. Sorry it happened. So I' glad to hear that stays. That stays consistent throughout. So I can't even imagine what it's like to go back to that world and live in it. But when you look at your career now, what do you think the crystal ball looks like? Where do you want to go with your career? Where do you take it from here? Do you get more focus on brand stuff? Do you keep playing puck? You train for, my gosh, the 2030 Olympics. What does it look like? Give me the crystal ball.

[Hailey Skamura]

Oh, my gosh. I've definitely thought about it. I have a lot of people ask me what I want to do. My mom and my family tell me I'm really good at talking on TV and doing the interviews and things like that, so they really want me in that space. I could be cool. I have no idea. I'm open to exploring. I. I also do. I co host with a podcast about, like, for our kids play hockey, which is fun. I also love coaching and mentoring, so I. I dig into that a lot on my off season. So I'll Do a few camps this summer. Other than that for hockey, I'll keep going as long as my body's feeling good. I don't know what that'll look like yet. Before the pro league, I always thought this would be my last Olympics for sure. But now that we have a pro league league, who knows? And I would love to keep playing as long as USA Hockey will let me. And because I absolutely love representing the country and those teammates are just bought it for life, obviously now and would love to keep playing as long as I could, but definitely professional hockey for a few more years. And excited to see what life looks like after that, though I don't know yet.

[Podcast Host]

In your journal, do you have being Olympian in 2030 written as a manifestation?

[Hailey Skamura]

Not yet.

[Podcast Host]

Maybe I will. You're gonna write it down tonight?

[Co-host 2]

Maybe.

[Podcast Host]

Maybe I will add it tonight. Let's go right here on Trading Secrets. You're gonna add it. You're gonna add it. All right, what about, like, some things behind the scenes in Olympic Village? Obviously, you see all the media, you see the social media, you see the food that t. There's a lot of networking and stuff. Like, what's actually happening behind the scenes? What was your most memorable takeaway when it comes to the food, the actual. The dining, the setup and where you're staying? Come on, give us something we don't know that we would only know from you.

[Co-host 1]

You.

[Hailey Skamura]

Oh, man. My raw reaction when we walked into the rooms, I go, this is small. It was crazy. Me and my roommate could literally hold hands in our beds. And they're these twin XL beds. I'm like, this is right back to college days. This is insane. So that was shocking because in Beijing, we had straight up apartments. We had three separate bedrooms. You had your own room, a big living area. So there was a ton of space. So this was the complete opposite. It. But it's like a college campus. There's like the different residential buildings. There's. There was a little Corona Hut where they did meditations and mindfulness. And I actually had my. A little Corona gold bottle made after we won the gold. It's over there.

[Podcast Host]

Did you Corona sponsorship for that?

[Hailey Skamura]

I should. Yeah, should get me all the sponsors. I would love that. Yeah, it's sitting over there. I gotta get the picture up on Instagram or something.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, put that out there. Let's go, Corona. Pick it up over here. That's actually a question I was wondering about. Has sponsorships come to fruition or brand deals since after the Olympics?

[Hailey Skamura]

Nothing major yet. There's been A lot of kind of gifts sent over. I honestly just opened the Abercrombie package from them. My agency sent over a bunch of stuff from some different companies. A lot of gifts in that sense. No sponsorship deals yet, though. No, but I am looking into. I wore a Nike headband in all my photos. Those. So maybe Nike will send something over. We'll see.

[Podcast Host]

I like it. Nike Corona. Keep that manifesting alive. Don't stop. Keep it ripping. There's something there when you win because there's all these different outlets that speak to it. I'm not sure that you can, but. And there's reports that are certain they didn't have the number down. But when you win the gold, don't you get an actual check for winning the gold? It's not material. It's something small, isn't it?

[Hailey Skamura]

Yeah. So with. We get two separate checks. I think it's all public. So the USOC, the Olympic Committee sends 20,000. And then I think USA Hockey sends 37,500. So it is.

[Podcast Host]

That's a big payday.

[Hailey Skamura]

It's huge.

[Podcast Host]

What's the difference between silver versus gold?

[Hailey Skamura]

Throwing back, I think from. Instead of the 37, it's 22. 21 or 22.

[Podcast Host]

So the pride.

[Hailey Skamura]

Other one is like 15, I think.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, got it. So pride outsets any type of financial incentive, but there is financial incentive when you're playing the game.

[Hailey Skamura]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Pretty sweet.

[Sponsor Voice]

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[Podcast Host]

The buzzer goes off. Just can't.

[Hailey Skamura]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Once in a lifetime, that feeling. Like how. If you could summarize, when that buzzer goes off, what's that feeling?

[Hailey Skamura]

Purolation is the only thing I can think of. Just. I had no control of my body. I just went onto the ice, threw everything off. I've never been so excited in my life. And then also emotional. All of a sudden, started crying. Seeing teammates hugging, what really got me was family. When I saw them in the. I just. I see my mom sobbing. And then I look over, I see my dad. He's smiling really big and waving like this. And I was like, oh, my God, my dream has come true. With my family in the stands, there's just nothing better. It was just amazing.

[Podcast Host]

What a beautiful moment that I'm sure in your brain you'll just never, ever forget. And I'm so glad that you think about the little girl Haley running around, throwing in her little diary, being Olympian. And to have that come to fruition is the ultimate, ultimate dream. Congratulations. How just exciting is that what an honor it is to have that moment that you'll forever, ever have and hopefully be able to impact so many other players that look up to you, and you'll be able to show them that road. So that is so cool. One thing I want to ask you is we talk business on the podcast. So I'm curious. I'm gonna put you. I'm gonna put you in the boss seat. Okay. So you're starting a business, and you gotta look at your teammates. Of all your teammates, who's the one person you're hiring and why are you hiring them?

[Hailey Skamura]

I got two. Can I say two?

[Podcast Host]

Let's hear them. What's your two? Yeah.

[Hailey Skamura]

Hillary Knight and Kendall Cohen Schofield, without a doubt.

[Podcast Host]

Good answers. Why?

[Hailey Skamura]

They just don't stop. They keep going until they get what we deserve. And that's why we have this league. Because of them. There's obviously other people behind the scenes. We always joke with Kendall especially, she just never stops working. She is always going. She's always trying to get what's best for us.

[Co-host 2]

Us.

[Hailey Skamura]

A famous thing we've talked about with Billie Jean King was like, we're done with the breadcrumbs. We want the whole cake. We don't want the crumbs anymore. We're not satisfied with this. And just because we're asking for more does not mean we're not grateful for what we have. That's a huge kind of storyline we're trying to get out of. It's. Yes, we're so happy we have a professional league now, but we have to keep elevating. We have to keep expecting more because we're not done yet. We deserve more. And so those two people are people who work tirelessly for those around them and not for their own glory.

[Podcast Host]

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[Podcast Host]

say that stuff and we hear the theme of this interview, it's a hard question to ask, but it's a question I got to at least is that you guys have fought for pay, you have fought for the league, you have fought for everything. You're 10 years into the league as a top performer in the entire world and you're still working to get that six figure $am when you guys go through what you went through and then win the gold and then we all know what was said by President Trump in the locker room and some of the noise that came with that. What does that mean to you and how do you carry forward given everything that you fought for, not for the 10 years prior and where you are today? Like, how do you interpret it all and what does it mean as you continue to look forward?

[Hailey Skamura]

We were definitely obviously frustrated by that. But I think the coolest part that came out of it was just how much love and support we got after the fact. We had so many people reaching out to us, wanting to send us any sort of support they could. Flavor Flav is inviting us to Vegas now to celebrate. We are just getting love and support from everyone you can imagine, honestly. And I think that's huge because I didn't love the precedent it set to young girls. I have mentees that I work with as a mentor and they were hurt by that. They didn't appreciate that and neither did we. And we're going to stand up for what we deserve, and we didn't deserve that. But the outpouring of love and support we did get after that, we deserved 100% that.

[Podcast Host]

It's such a good perspective because you think about again, what I always love to do in this podcast is take people that are listening and they look up to people like you and how do they apply situations that happen at your life at the literally global level

[Sponsor Voice]

and apply them to their life.

[Podcast Host]

And I think a takeaway there is sometimes the noise or the setbacks or the things that kind of have hurt you the most can actually be a massive propeller to continuing to build momentum behind Everything you've already built, the things that might hurt the most actually created create the best outcome for you. So I think that's one that anyone, no matter how small your world, might feel like some of those biggest setbacks actually might be the biggest thing that changed things for you in the future. So I think that's just such a great perspective to carry on and to continue to rip and roar with. And it feels like there's just. Just complete upside in your future. One quick question. My brain's running. When you're talking about that moment with your parents there that you'll never forget, forget during the Olympics, and you're talking about the dorm room situation, how much of contact do you have? Are you allowed to be with your parents a lot? Are you allowed to be with your boyfriend a lot? Are there certain rules and restrictions? What does that look like?

[Hailey Skamura]

The only restriction is that they just can't come in the village. So you had to have. We had credentials that we went in with and went through security, and no one else can come through the village. However, I could leave whenever I wanted. Obviously. I could go see people whenever I wanted. The biggest thing was, was more conserving my energy at times. So I think sometimes I just didn't see him as often as we got closer to the Metal game because it was like, okay, I'm just gonna be with the girls and stay in the Village and do my thing. I don't need to go explore Milan with everyone. And I also wanted my family to enjoy their time and not wait around for me to be free for one hour. So I let them kind of do their thing. But, yeah, I was free to see everyone as much as I could. I probably saw them, like. Like 10 times throughout the Olympic time.

[Grainger Announcer]

Cool.

[Podcast Host]

Reasonable. What do you think, personally, whether it was in a game or outside of the game, what was the hardest challenge to overcome during the Olympics?

[Hailey Skamura]

Maybe just how big the moments felt at times. I think this Olympics, we had fans in the stands, so in 2022, there was no fans. So that part I think I maybe had maybe underestimated a little bit. I was like, wow, this is very different. Having fans here like this builds up the pressure and the energy a little bit more. So just keeping that in check was maybe a challenge at the beginning, but by the end, I was fine.

[Podcast Host]

Good stuff, Haley. It's so cool to learn about where you've been, where you've come, where you are today, and what the future might look like. Your story is incredible. What would you say the best Part of your game. If you had to put one thing, like, you're on any. You're on the PWHL video game, and you got your little skills. What's your number one skill?

[Hailey Skamura]

Physicality, for sure. I'm, like, the strongest one out there. I'm winning all my battles. Hard on the forecheck. Good shot.

[Podcast Host]

You got any, like, stick tricks? You like little hacks or anything? Anything he could give us for the hockey players back there or. No. A little push on the back of the skates, Little bop.

[Hailey Skamura]

Okay. Hit the back of the knees a little bit. Ankles, get them off balance.

[Podcast Host]

I love it. I love it. Good stuff. Haley, thank you so much for coming on Trading Secrets and telling us everything about your career and where it's going. It's. You're an inspiration to so money. So many continue to pave the way. But we gotta wrap with the Trading Secret. So something that's very specific to you, it could be financial, it could be career, it could be personal, but something that only someone can listen and hear from you. Given your experience, what trading secret can you leave us with?

[Hailey Skamura]

I think always fight for what you deserve. Don't just accept the bare minimum. Always be willing to fight for what you have earned and deserve.

[Co-host 1]

I love it.

[Podcast Host]

It's a hell of a trading secret. It's a hell of an episode. Haley, where can everyone find your podcast and just anything and everything you got going on? Give us the plug. Where can we find it all?

[Hailey Skamura]

So my username is just hayleyscamura. H A Y L E Y S C A M U R R A. I'm on Instagram. I'm on TikTok, but not very diligently, I would say. And then the podcast that I do is Our kids play hockey. And then on my Instagram, I also have a mentorship program that I do with my boyfriend Nick that I mentioned. And then Cameo, I just started.

[Podcast Host]

Amazing.

[Co-host 1]

All right.

[Podcast Host]

There's a lot of places to find you. I think the mentorship and the podcast sounds so cool. So if you guys are listening, go check those out. Haley, we're going to continue to thrive. And now you got to write it down. It's live and exclusive here on Trading Secrets 2030. Let's go, Olympics. You got this. And if you're not playing, we want you coaching. Okay? We want you on that bench, ripping and roaring, showing the girls to be tough as you are. But, Haley, thank you for being on this episode, Trig Secrets. We appreciate having our first ever gold Olympian. Thank you for being on.

[Hailey Skamura]

Thank you for having me.

[Podcast Host]

Ding, ding, ding. We are closing the bell to the Haley and episode. I'll tell you what, David, this is

[Co-host 1]

right up your alley. We're talking Olympics, we're talking hockey. We're talking the breakdown of professional sports, the money behind it, women paving a

[Podcast Host]

lane in a lane that didn't exist.

[Co-host 1]

Tell me everything. I'm sure you have so much to say.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah, it was great. Talk about right up my alley, a hockey player Focus podcast. And there's a lot of correlation. I got to say, I'm wearing my Bishop Carney hockey hat, my Bishop Carney hockey hood hoodie. That is the school that I coach at, that I'm the director of the boys program at, and we have a girls program. And we had eight alumni in the Olympics from our girls program, five of them on Team usa. So five gold medalists from the Bishop Carney selects girls hockey program. We're teammates with Haley. And to hear a little bit of the insights and know that some of those girls were walking the hallways at the school that I represent was a really cool, touching piece for me. But one thing I do love about the POD is I'm sure all of Team USA has done some sort of press, and I think that to be able to talk about the level of detail of her entire career, all of her accomplishments, all the accomplishments from all the women's as it relates to the women's game, is why the podcast is a really special place. So I thought you navigated the interview great. And it was. I learned a lot, too, being a hockey guy. Obviously mostly on the men's side, but I learned a ton, too, so it was a good, really, really great episode.

[Co-host 1]

What was most surprising to you?

[Co-host 2]

I think most surprising was obviously, like, you know, that there's discrepancy in pay. And I think just really hearing from someone who went through it, like, how many times did she think her hockey career was over? And it wasn't necessarily because she didn't love the game or because she wasn't talented enough. It just. There wasn't any options. So I think when it comes to, like, surprising, I just like getting paid $3,000 to play, quote, unquote, professional hockey. And listen, at the end of the day, I have a lot of friends, I've coached a lot of players who've gone on, played, quote, unquote, professional men's hockey, too, from the SPHL to the East Coast Hockey League to the ahl. And the pay for those is not what you would think either. Like, the average east coast hockey league player who's playing in a big market and playing in front of 10,000 fans is only making 15, $25,000 a year. They're making five to $600 a week AHL salaries as well. Like they're the same as the pwhl. Like the average AHL salary for a lot of these guys is that $65,000 mark. Obviously you have more, and it depends on the contract that you sign with your NHL club, if you have one. But the pay in some of these professional sports for the commitment, the dedication and the grind, it just doesn't always equal out. So to, to be in a $3,000 a year professional sport. I didn't know that they really lived off of stipends from USA Hockey and from the Olympic Committee. I thought that was really interesting. But to hear where they've gotten and where they're trying to get to, it's inspiring. And I give credit to everybody on the woman's side that's really driving this forward.

[Podcast Host]

On the Olympic side and the money

[Co-host 1]

side, there are so many things that are surprising to me. Was there anything that like really stuck

[Podcast Host]

out to you or was it what

[Co-host 1]

you just alluded to?

[Co-host 2]

No, I think the biggest thing when you really break it down and get hyper focused on what she was saying from a career point of view and a finance point of view and a money point of view is the difference of winning a 60 minute hockey game silver and gold. You're saying difference between silver, gold where they she won a silver in 2022 and now winning a gold in 2026. And it's not just the monetary. It's like she talked about the four day partying. She talked about going to a nightclub with all the other athletes and Snoop Dogg showing up. And f if you don't win that game, you don't get that experience. If you don't win that game, I'm sorry, you probably don't come on the podcast and not because you're not deserving of that. It's just you're in the limelight. You're. It's all those things. And I coach hockey all the time and the parents in my program, players in my program, even me as coaches in our program, you get so strung up on the wins and losses that if I always say if I started making life decisions off my reactions of wins and losses, I'd probably be divorced 10 times. You just can't control hockey games. Sometimes the puck bounces. One way or another, USA dominated the tournament. Here they are in overtime and it's Just one play, one small play changes the trajectory of these women's lives for the next, at least the next four years. Years. And certainly in the short term, it's just, it's the beauty of the game, but it's also like up in a way where it's just if that goal crosses, if that puck crosses the line on the other end, this girl's life drastically changes, short and long term.

[Co-host 1]

You're a Canadian. When you watch this game and you watch the other games, did you think that USA was going to win in the women's and men's game? Let's start with the women's game. Yeah.

[Co-host 2]

In the women's game, no. USA was going to win that game. The whole way.

[Co-host 1]

Way.

[Co-host 2]

I thought that the men's and the women's game was actually opposite. I thought USA dominated the whole game and should have won and they end up winning in overtime. I thought the men's game, Canada dominated most of the game and should have won. But then us end up winning in overtime. But USA hockey women have been on the uprising, on the charge for a long time. If you go back to world championships and a lot of these rivalry series like she talked about, like, they're really dominating Canada lately on the women's side. I know there's a lot of pride in the USA hockey women's world right now, as there should be.

[Co-host 1]

What's one? We only had Haley for about 45 minutes. What's one topic? If you were in this interview, you would have asked her more about or

[Podcast Host]

you want to know more about.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah, it's a good question. I think more just like from the finance perspective, like being in it, like hockey is a 12 month year sport. So maybe finding out a little bit of the cost associated with all our training, hear about all our earnings, but you don't really hear a lot about the expenses. Equipment is ridiculously expensive. Is she getting all that stuff? Sponsored? All those aspects would be really interesting. Interesting. One of the most relatable things that she talked about was getting traded, which I thought that was a fascinating story of how she was in Toronto playing for Ottawa. She gets treated right where she's playing Toronto. She literally has to. She's already there. Her and her teammate have to go into a new locker room and play her old team. She was like saying how she was like emotional on the ice, like crying on the ice. That for me is relatable. I got traded twice in my junior hockey career before I was even a. I never was a professional hockey player to this day I never got paid to play hockey but I played four years years of junior hockey which for those who aren't aware men's hockey is really messed up. Where after high school you have to go play junior hockey and these random towns across North America and play in these leagues to get scouted and exposure to go to to play college hockey. And for all those of you who have been in college and met college hockey players, yes, we are 21 year old freshmen, 22 year old freshmen who graduate college at 25 years old. That's just the nature of our sport. But I got traded twice in junior hockey. So here I am not making any money money working towards my life goals and you get a call from the gm, you get called in the coach's office like you're treated. You're on a bus to who knows where. You move out of one billet family home to another billet family home. People you've never met before, team teammates you've never met before. And the expectation is performing and those trades are a lot like one. One time I got traded for three players and 25000 and a player to be named later. So it's decent transactions that are happening in the junior hockey level. And it's only getting crazier today. Hearing that story and putting yourself in her shoes in that situation is. It's really not. It's like getting treated is like your whole life. You pack it up and you got to go now. So goodbye against your team and then play against your team and play again. It's just crazy. So finances involved in that. Like where were you living? Where did you move to? Were you subleasing an apartment? Like those are the details where it's just nuts what we do for sports sometimes.

[Co-host 1]

Didn't you have one of your teammates Deco? You got traded. You guys are so sad. You both finished like three cheeseburgers and cried in each other's arms.

[Co-host 2]

This story is hilarious and I'm going to tell it because we got a couple minutes here I was playing in trail British Columbia with my best friend and normal game day we play at 7 o'. Clock, I go get called in the coach's office at 3 o' clock they tell me that I'm traded. I'm the leading scorer of the team, I'm the captain of the team. I couldn't believe it. It was my last year junior hockey. My best friend comes, he's injured at the time, he shows up with 20 cheeseburgers from McDonald's and a handle of Crown Royal whiskey. And he was just so sad. So we got like a drink in a couple cheeseburgers and my new GM coach calls me me and he's like, hey, we're so excited to pick you up. Like we're playing in Prince george tomorrow at 3 o', clock, need you in the lineup. Prince George is a 27 hour car ride from where I was and I, this was at 400pm and we played at 3pm so obviously I couldn't even drive there if I wanted. So he goes, here's what we're doing. We have a bus from Cast Castle Guard to Colon. It's a four hour bus trip. Our owner will pick you up in Colona, take you to the hotel and take you to the airport. You'll fly to Vancouver and then from Vancouver you'll fly to Prince George. You'll get here just in time for the game.

[Co-host 1]

Oh my God.

[Co-host 2]

Long story short, Deco has to drive me to the bus. I literally have my hockey gear, a suit and a backpack. And I had, I had to leave my car and trail. We'll figure out, we'll fly you back and get your car. I take a bus and I'm on this bus and I'm like, what the am I doing in my life? Like I'm 20 years old, I'm taking a bus. This small town owner picks me up, I get to the hotel two in the morning, he picks me up at four in the morning. We go to Colona, fly from Colona, Vancouver, get on the plane, Vancouver to Prince George. I'm so tired. I fell asleep on the tarp tarmac. I woke up two hours later, we're still on the tarmac and I end up getting into Prince George. The game is at three. I end up getting Prince George, landing at two, getting a taxi because the team bus was already at the rink. A taxi to the rink, literally opening up the door. Players to the rink. And all my new teammates are like standing at the gate ready to go on the ice for warm ups. And I was like, hi, guys. So then I like go. I'm getting dressed in this locker room by myself. My teammates are on the ice. The equipment managers fitting me for new gear. Long story short, we go out, I score two goals, I get first.

[Co-host 1]

No way. We win.

[Co-host 2]

We win 3:2. We win 3:2. And then I'm on the team bus. We go back and. And that was it. And then they flew me back to trail. I got my car, I drove it up. Then a couple days later and yeah, that was it. So it's a crazy man. Those stories, those memories that I've had that obviously Haley had in her journeys and playing for three teams in three years and seeing her sport grow and growing into professional leagues, it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. The experiences that this game, the sport gets to bring you in your life.

[Co-host 1]

Life can't make it up. Truly, those stories like that, you can't make it up.

[Podcast Host]

You can't make up what she was

[Co-host 1]

explaining to us during this episode and everything she's undergone just in the last 10 years of professional hockey. And then think about all the youth hockey before that and college hockey and growing up in a family where her dad played pro and seeing that when

[Podcast Host]

she was skating with the boys in

[Co-host 1]

her youth hockey, her dream was to be an Olympian, and she made that dream come true. And from silver medal to gold medal, it's almost like you can write a book on her story, and it feels like her story story has so much more to be untold. So I was inspired by this. I think the timing of it was really cool. So amazing to just see the gold medal. I wanted to bite the thing that looked so badass. And that experience of her being there with mom and dad and the family to watch it can't make it up. And they think about, in life, what's your gold medal moment? Has it happened? And if it hasn't happened, what will it be? And those are things I think about when I get out of this industry interview. Anything else you're thinking before we wrap?

[Co-host 2]

Last thing I got. I just love how she kept going back to how she just played for the love of the game, since there was no PWHL at the time. There was no. Like, she just played because she loved it. And I think that not just in hockey, but a lot of youth sports parents have lost sight that that really should be the goal for your kids. They're looking at it as an investment, and they want to return on their investment. And sometimes the investment is like you're just providing an experience for your kid. And it's not about what you know. It's not always about. My kid plays on this team. Who's ranked this? Or if he doesn't make the NHL, it's a failure if he doesn't get college paid for. Why did I spend all this money? You spent it. I hope you're spending it because you're trying to do every other parent does and provide for your kid because he just loves the game, and that's why he's doing it. So if you lose sight of that, the sports in general will always come back to disappoint you. There has to be a purity behind it.

[Co-host 1]

Perfectly said. I think that also rel, obviously especially in youth sports. Anything about these parents who get like overly obsessive in their kids performance performance and looking at as like an roi, don't do it. Be there for the passion again. Be there for the fun. Be there for the competitive energy. Be there for the foundation it creates for a lifetime.

[Podcast Host]

And I think that a lot of

[Co-host 1]

that honestly connects to work. If you're only chasing the dollar, you will burn out. It won't work, it won't be there. So I think it's a cool way to wrap it.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah, you'll lose the, you'll lose the healthy relationship of why you're doing these things in the first place. Yeah, it was a great, was a great interview. I got nothing but credit and respect for all the women in the women's game right now. How they're growing it. I loved her. Couple of love lines. We're not settling for the crumbs anymore. We want the whole cake. And just because we're asking for more doesn't mean we're grateful for what we've gotten. They're selling out NHL arenas.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that's such a good line.

[Co-host 2]

They're selling out NHL arenas all across, all across the country. So it's getting real proud of the women's game and, and proud of Haley and thanks for coming on, David.

[Podcast Host]

It is. I want you to go play. I want you to go coach for the Olympics. I want you to go coach the NHL or the PWHL. Come on, let's talk. I appreciate what BK's done for you. I'm ready for you to go to the next, next level.

[Co-host 2]

I know, but you know what? My calling in life in hockey is to be there for kids and be there for families who need me. Because it's really a confusing, it's really stressful and is someone needs there to be able to guide these families and give them knowledge and answers. And I would, trust me, I would love to go and coach the Olympics. But helping these teenage kids navigate their lives and they need someone. I love being that person for them.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

And I think, I think, I think that's perfectly said. And I think what's cool about it is like you've been there, you've done that. You've been at that age where you've been looked at by NHL teams and D1 teams and the best junior teams in Canada and the state. So it's like you've been in their shoes, you know what it takes. So I think that's pretty special. And Haley clearly knows what it takes. A gold, Olympian, silver medalist, almost decade in the pros, and of course born

[Sponsor Voice]

and raised in Buffalo, New York. Let's go.

[Co-host 2]

There you go. Speaking of Buffalo, New York, this recap felt a little bit like I was in the ho seat a little bit. It felt like jta, which we were recorded in Buffalo. That will be coming to you shortly. We are putting the finishes on it next week. Next Monday, GTA is going to be released to the people. We hope that you loved this episode. We hope that you'll love that episode. Jay, you want to ring us out

[Podcast Host]

here, give us five stars? Hopefully this was another episode of Trading Secrets, one you couldn't afford to miss.

[Hailey Skamura]

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[Co-host 1]

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[Hailey Skamura]

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[Co-host 2]

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[Hailey Skamura]

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[Co-host 2]

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