← Trading Secrets
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- [00:00]
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- [01:14]
Podcast Host
Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today we are joined by one of the most successful, successful independent DJ duos in the world. To friends Matt Helper and Eli Sones built their brand before college to house parties into a global touring act. From their viral big booty mixes, I know you guys at home know all about those. To sold out tours, major festival stages, they've turned remixes and mashups into a scalable business. But behind the music, there's something even more interesting. They've built a highly profitable independent operation in an that's totally dominated by labels. It's nothing like we've seen on the podcast yet. Matt and Eli, welcome to Training Secrets.
- [01:58]
Matt Helper
Thank you. Thanks for having us.
- [02:00]
Podcast Host
Yeah, you know, obviously there's a lot of business talk, but last time I saw you guys, you were taking the crown championship at Art Basel at the Celsius Padel tournament. Who'd you guys beat in the finals?
- [02:11]
Matt Helper
It was us versus Dwight Howard and Diplo.
- [02:13]
Podcast Host
When you guys won that, do you win any money for that or not?
- [02:16]
Matt Helper
It was for charity.
- [02:16]
Eli Sones
We got to do a 5K to have cancer.
- [02:18]
Matt Helper
Yeah.
- [02:19]
Podcast Host
Okay. I love it. That's good stuff. You're getting paid by Celsius to be there. Do you have a part?
- [02:24]
Matt Helper
We did, yeah. At the time it was part of like a big year long thing where there was a bunch of different, you know, fun shows and pop ups and events.
- [02:33]
Eli Sones
Yeah, it's fun when you know Celsius is great and it's fun when like brands are like collaborative and like, you know, try to lean into what you do. So like obviously for us whether it's DJing, interesting, unique events, like, we. We've done, like, workout classes with them, which have been cool. Yeah, that's how we, like, met, who is actually. I think we defeated him in it.
- [02:52]
Matt Helper
He was good.
- [02:53]
Eli Sones
He was good. Tyler Cameron.
- [02:54]
Podcast Host
Yes, Goodbye.
- [02:55]
Eli Sones
He was. He was good in the tournament. Like, stuff like that where, like, you know, he's, like, leading the class and we're deejaying. So it's cool when brands kind of try to, like, lean into something actually works rather than, I don't know, a million artificial things that don't really feel like it's, you know, anyone's getting it, especially their audience is getting anything out.
- [03:13]
Podcast Host
For sure. I feel like what you guys have done is, like, built this spiderweb. And whether it's DJing workout classes with massive brands or it's national tours or it's partnering with artists, creating your own music, DJing from colleges to massive venues, like you're going to Atlantic City and Palm Tree, like you guys have, it feels like you've been able to create revenue streams and, like, a multitude of categories. Is that accurate?
- [03:37]
Matt Helper
Yeah, definitely. I think it's funny looking back when you first, like, rewind to 2011, it all started just, hey, we like music. We kind of had a different complimentary skill set each. And we're like, all right, we're hanging out. We're best friends in middle school and high school. We're hanging out all the time. Time. Let's mess around with some music production software that early on, you're not thinking big picture. All these other avenues you're going to get involved with, you're kind of just like, let's mess around and have some fun making music. But then I think what was fun and exciting is you kind of quickly learn how, like, entrepreneurial the whole business is making music. Some of it definitely is overwhelming. And there's a lot of times where we're like, oh, my God, I want to turn my phone off. I just want to drown out the noise and finally be able to work on music. Because some days it's like, am I still a musician?
- [04:25]
Podcast Host
Yeah. There's so many moving parts.
- [04:27]
Matt Helper
But the flip side is, it's fun, it's exciting. It's like you're kind of controlling your own destiny in a lot of ways.
- [04:32]
Podcast Host
I love it. We'll get into the weeds of the specifics today. I do want to start a little bit back in time, before it started, before I go there. Just because we're on this topic of conversation, it feels like in the DJ space, you got to have your skill set, but it's a lot of marketing, it's a lot of branding. And someone asked me the other day about DJ Pauly D. They're like, how's he doing? I'm like, I. I've read articles, I've talked some people that know him. He's killing it. Like what? I've seen things about what he might get paid per set, 50k plus. And that's moving in the plus, plus direction, per set. You know, someone like DJ Pauly D, I mean, am I wrong in saying, sure, he's good at what he does, but he has a following, he has a community, he has a brand. Let's put him on that platform that's hot right now and let's build a business around that. Is that accurate?
- [05:14]
Eli Sones
We've never met him, but you got to respect the hustle. Like us.
- [05:17]
Podcast Host
Hell yeah. He's killing it.
- [05:18]
Eli Sones
He parlayed a moment into a career. He's still extremely relevant in the DJ world at least. And I don't even know how long ago Jersey shore, like, hit.
- [05:26]
Matt Helper
15 years.
- [05:27]
Eli Sones
Yeah, whatever it was. So, you know, respect to him and. And there's a lot of people these days that, you know, you get like a moment or something and you got it. It's so stressful. You got to figure out how to like, make it into a career because it goes quick. Yeah. For someone like him, like, he probably had the technical side down and he knew what he was doing. But yeah, then it's all brand. He is a brand. His face is a brand. Like, that's his logo. Half the time, you know, that's a hard thing to do.
- [05:51]
Podcast Host
I think that's a good transition as far as, like, that was his platform. Right. Reality TV show had some skill set, brought it to the, the main stage, brought it to Vegas and everywhere else. You guys buddies in middle school, high school, you're into this DJ thing, you're into making music. What'd you study in school when you went to Vanderbilt? Eli, what'd you study?
- [06:08]
Matt Helper
I majored in human and organizational development.
- [06:11]
Podcast Host
Okay, what did you expect your career
- [06:13]
Matt Helper
to be after school if it wasn't going to be music? Hopefully it would have been in some like semi entrepreneurial startup Y type thing, because that was definitely interesting to me.
- [06:21]
Podcast Host
What'd you study about?
- [06:22]
Eli Sones
Product design? Okay, so it was like creative and a little engineering. But, like, honestly, I think what for me was good was obviously meeting friends, network and stuff, just like pushing you to do stuff you don't know how to do learn things. Because, like, in the end, for all of this and so many other creative things, most of the time, no one's teaching you anything. You're just, like, jumping in, figuring it out. And every year that changes what that means. Like, back then it was YouTube tutorials or, like, really trying to, like, listen and experiment, trial and error. Now with, like, ChatGPT can tell you how to make a sound. Like, you literally say, how do I make the sound? And they try their best.
- [06:55]
Podcast Host
You know, it's changed so much, right? But also when you guys, like, you guys graduate, right? And the idea of being. Or you're in college, let's call it here, the idea of being a DJ is not what it is today, right? It's very prevalent today. The market is huge. It's moving and growing, right? Depending on, like, the way people are consuming alcohol and AI's factor. So we'll talk about that. But back then when you went and told mom, dad, brother, sister, cousin, I'm going to go do this DJ thing, they had to look at you like you had foreheads.
- [07:23]
Sponsor Advertiser
Are they not?
- [07:23]
Eli Sones
Luckily, it was, like, right when this stuff was just becoming mainstream. So, like, our friends, like, knew a couple DJs, but, like, if we did it three years earlier, everyone would be like, I literally don't know what you're talking about.
- [07:33]
Podcast Host
I have no idea. But you guys did it. When did you start to see, like, money come into what you're producing?
- [07:39]
Matt Helper
When we graduated college in 2015. We went right into it. Like, we never really had other jobs. And even then, we were definitely not making money. In fact, we were probably losing money. But I think what was pushing us was, like, the trajectory felt good. So even if we were not making much, it was still growing.
- [07:58]
Podcast Host
What was growing?
- [07:59]
Matt Helper
People listening online, the amount of emails we'd get asking us to perform shows, even if the budgets were low, the amount of managers that were asking us if we had representation. So it was.
- [08:08]
Eli Sones
It's almost like a feeling, you know what I mean?
- [08:10]
Matt Helper
And we never really put, like, a firm deadline or anything, but we kind of were like, all right, we're trying this after college, 100%. This is what we're excited about, passionate about, and we need to, like, give this a real try. In my head, I would say maybe it was like, if two or three years went by and it was really like, nothing changed, we may have had to have a talk of, like, that
- [08:27]
Eli Sones
would have been sad.
- [08:28]
Podcast Host
How long were you guys operating in a loss?
- [08:30]
Matt Helper
So it was about, like, A year and a half after graduating was when we're like, all right, we're now we're like making some money.
- [08:38]
Eli Sones
Probably still at a loss, or not
- [08:40]
Matt Helper
at a loss, but like we still lived at home.
- [08:42]
Podcast Host
What were your expenses though?
- [08:44]
Matt Helper
I would say our expenses actually were not that high. It was more that you just weren't.
- [08:47]
Podcast Host
We weren't making that.
- [08:48]
Matt Helper
Yeah, we would do a lot. We would say yes to pretty much every show at that time.
- [08:52]
Podcast Host
What were you getting paid per show?
- [08:55]
Matt Helper
1500-3000 probably.
- [08:57]
Eli Sones
We would try to like not lose money on the flights and everything, but
- [09:00]
Podcast Host
sometimes, right, because when you in the DJ game, right, when they give you that 3K or 1500, that's gross. You have to pay every.
- [09:06]
Matt Helper
Sometimes every show is different.
- [09:08]
Eli Sones
But those I would say, traditionally, yeah, you're like paying for flights, hotels, often.
- [09:12]
Podcast Host
I'm seeing millions of monthly listeners, two plus million followers all together, touring all over, working with big artists. Vibrate your manager in here right now. I'm like, all right, you're pitching him at 1500 now. What are you pitching him at now? What would he say?
- [09:23]
Eli Sones
Right?
- [09:23]
Matt Helper
Prices these days, it's, it's hard to answer. And we're not trying to dodge the question, but it really like varies so much. We'll have a buddy, someone will hit us up and be like, hey, I know some blah blah wants to book you. What should I tell them? And it's like we can't even answer because it just really, really is a case by case basis. There are some shows still to this day that will do pretty much at a, at break even or even lose because it's like we wanna, we want this new experience that we were never,
- [09:50]
Eli Sones
by the way, that could be like the highest offer we're getting. And it's just we need to bring so much production, but it's such a big look, like you have to do it, you know what I mean? Like we did Lala last summer, we brought 60 crew people because we had a drone show and building all this stuff and it's just like, you know,
- [10:06]
Matt Helper
for that show all in, we probably spent what, close to you, Half a million dollars?
- [10:11]
Podcast Host
Let's just say you're paid a half a million bucks on that. You guys are thinking, we got to spend a half million to make this just epic, right? And you're thinking content and you're the experience. Is that accurate that you might break even at that or even lose money knowing you're investing in general?
- [10:25]
Matt Helper
Yes. Like we look at each year, we kind of need to pick some of the. The highlight moments where we're like, okay, obviously we can't lose money every show or break even on every show, otherwise you never make any money.
- [10:38]
Eli Sones
But someone's not getting paid.
- [10:40]
Matt Helper
But we're like, all right, whether. And so sometimes that's one specific show or festival, sometimes that means it's a whole. Where you're gone for eight weeks on a bus. And overall, that's kind of like your highlight tape that sets the tone. And this is a lesson that our agent, we give him a lot of credit to this day because it was 2017, just a couple years into it, where he sat us down and he was like, look, guys, there's a lot of your peers that, you know, you could get booked at. The clubs you can get booked at, basically they call it soft ticket events where it's. You're gonna go to a place where people are probably already going to these type of clubs. It's a nightclub, people are going out, they're having fun. They don't necessarily care who the DJ is. It might help, you know, certain nights do better than others, but versus the other route, more of like a hard ticket route means you're going into these empty rooms that are basically traditional concert venues. No one's just going to this venue without checking. You know, they're buying a ticket. So they're not just gonna like, be there. They need to buy a ticket for two friends. And he was telling us, he's like, look, that's the two paths. One is you, you know, it's a little easier. You kind of just show up, plug in your usb, get your paycheck. But it's really hard to grow that way. You really need to do something special or different to, like, stand out that way versus this other path is more expensive. You're gonna not make as much in those specific shows. But what that does is it allows you to grow. And yes, you don't make any money here. But now all of a sudden, that same club, instead of offering you the same exact price to come back, you just doubled it because you said, hey, nope, I'm not charging that anymore because I just sold 500 tickets. And now if you do book me for your club, you could charge higher ticket prices or it's going to sell out faster, people are going to buy more tables, whatever it is the funny. I mean, not funny, but just like the thing about his speech was, like, it worked. We started in LA and there's a venue on the Sunset Strip called the Roxy.
- [12:40]
Podcast Host
Okay.
- [12:41]
Matt Helper
And it's 500 people capacity. And we're from LA. We were living there still. We have friends and family. He's like, guys, Roxy, 500 people. What do we think? Do you think, you know, blast it to all your friends and family, market it online? Like, do we think we could sell 500 tickets? And we're like, I don't know, I hope so. We'll try our best. And luckily we did. We sold it out. And then all of a sudden, there's an offer for the net, you know, a size up. It's 800 people now in LA, and then it's 1,200. And then all of a sudden, year by year, we're like, oh, my God, we just did the Kia Forum in la. And you kind of take that mindset for a lot of different cities around the US and it's just like, it works.
- [13:20]
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- [14:25]
Podcast Host
Money is clearly not the motivator here. It's building longevity and brand, which you guys have done extremely well. When was that first moment, though, that you got a call from your manager and like, wait, how much? Like, when was that first moment that you're like, like, yeah, I get it that for the Roxy, we're selling out 500, that 800. But when was that one, like, holy
- [14:45]
Eli Sones
moment for Atlantic City and Florida? There was like a club that had spots in both.
- [14:51]
Matt Helper
Yeah.
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Eli Sones
And it was like an eight show thing. And it was just like, I remember he sent it, it was like late at night, I'm like, oh my God. First of all, the offer was like for that time high. And then also it was like, like a lot of shows at once. I'm like, wow, good work. The offer before was like literally half of it. And this was like eight shows and like double.
- [15:08]
Podcast Host
And we're like, wow, give me an idea of what that is.
- [15:10]
Eli Sones
I don't even know.
- [15:11]
Matt Helper
Probably what, 40?
- [15:13]
Eli Sones
I don't know. Yeah. Or somewhere around there.
- [15:15]
Podcast Host
The reason I ask is like, let's just say it's 40 times 8. And you do the math, right? People listen at this, right? This was a hobby. You decided to take it seriously. And within a two, three year time period of going all in, you're getting, you know, a nice six figure deal. And I think whether it's DJing or whatever it is, someone could listen to this and maybe it's that wake up call. Maybe it's like, whatever it is that you really are passionate about, you really dive in. The reason I ask those money questions because I think it serves as motivation and inspiration for those that like, go fucking do it.
- [15:44]
Matt Helper
Everything is in perspective because do you remember we did a boarding school show while we were still in college and we got booked to do a high school boarding school, like end of year party.
- [15:54]
Eli Sones
Yes.
- [15:54]
Matt Helper
And I'll never forget, the fee was $3,000. And at the time that was like, oh my God, $3,000 for us to go like DJ at a party where they're gonna like, you know, take care of us, take us out to dinner and we get paid $3,000. That was like, I can't believe someone is gonna pay 3,000 whole dollars for this party.
- [16:15]
Eli Sones
Then by the end, like of the flights and everything, you probably break even anyway. But just the concerts.
- [16:20]
Matt Helper
But it's the gossip, because what I was used to hearing was like stories from my older brother where it's like, like a bar would pay him 50 bucks and a case of beer. And it's like, wait, this is like money.
- [16:30]
Podcast Host
You don't forget those deals, right? Now when I think about your branding, I think obviously Big Booty Mix is a big part of that, right? But the question I have before we get into branding is with the Big Booty Mix, that's where you guys start. Everyone here listening has heard your Big Booty Mixes, whether you know it or not. You have. How does the, like, how do you actually make money off that? And are there any licensing issues? Right, because in that what you're doing is essentially taking music that Currently exists. You're mashing it up to make it more entertaining and fun. Do you have to deal with like paying people out using them? How did that work?
- [17:00]
Matt Helper
The short answer is we have never made a dollar from Big Booty. Yeah, yeah, that's been a vehicle to then, hey, come see us at a show. Hey, buy our merch. Hey, yeah, you know, buy into, buy into the two friends world.
- [17:14]
Eli Sones
That's almost like a good, good metaphor for like spend money to make money type, you know, spend effort to like, you know, it builds another avenue. Like I mean a good direction avenue is like we have these like Big Booty Land shows which are the premiere of the mixes and like those ones are, you know, some of our biggest shows every year. Like we, we do one or two now. More like one just because it's too hard to, to do. Yeah, but like we'll put so much time, effort, massive show, massive production and like go all out to, you know, build something in person around something, you know, like a mix. But yeah, music tech is going crazy right now. Like there's this new startup every day and it's hard to see like what's, you know, sustainable. But like things like Apple Music, they are trying to figure that out where it's like the licensing of a DJ mix. If people listen, you know, if there's 50 artists, like will they split up the royalties?
- [18:04]
Matt Helper
50, that's what we want.
- [18:06]
Eli Sones
We want that.
- [18:07]
Matt Helper
All we want is for our mixes to be, to live online easily and not get taken down sometimes. And so but like we can't. We're like pay everyone. But we don't. It's too complicated legally for us to be the ones doing it. So we're kind of just like.
- [18:20]
Eli Sones
But it is a layout for, for the music industry to make more money.
- [18:23]
Podcast Host
Sure.
- [18:23]
Matt Helper
We're kind of waiting for the when, when they're like, okay, anything goes, everyone will get.
- [18:29]
Podcast Host
Just rip it. Your creative genius is saying we're going to see the masters and then we're going to put these brilliant masters together like no one else can do. And that's going to be part of the brand, that's going to be part of the hook. And then when you're buying a ticket to see two friends and you're going to the club or you're buying a table or whatever. The experience it is, it's based on the branding experience, not the fact. I mean you guys write your own music, but it feels like it's more of an experienced brand than it is like an actual Taylor Swift. Fan who's gonna consume her lyrics and sit there and connect with it.
- [19:03]
Matt Helper
That accurate.
- [19:03]
Eli Sones
The DJ world in general leans live. You know what I mean? It's like, because that is what DJing is. A lot of time it's playing other people's music. So obviously we're playing our own. We're playing pieces of big booty mixes, we're playing our originals, we're playing remixes. But in general, you are building a story. But your story is like the experience that could be, I don't know, a night out at a club that you'll never forget. That was great set, great energy, whatever. Or it could be the biggest show in the world where you have every production trick in the bag and it's just like a concert.
- [19:37]
Podcast Host
Let's pause there. This is a softball and a nice little promotional pitch. Anyone listening here that hasn't been to one of your shows?
- [19:43]
Matt Helper
What.
- [19:44]
Podcast Host
What is the experience, the things that people can expect if they do come to one of your shows that they won't get anywhere else?
- [19:49]
Matt Helper
I'm going to flip the question and do the opposite, because this is a funny thing that our tour manager said the other day. He said, if you come to a two friends show and you don't like it, then you're just an asshole.
- [19:58]
Podcast Host
Wow, I love that. The reason you said that, that's a great sales move right there. That right there made me be like, I'm about five tickets. I gotta go.
- [20:07]
Matt Helper
You know, I think we are. It's hard to answer because it really has become kind of just this, like, amalgamation of so many things where it's. You're gonna hear some of our original music, you're gonna hear parts of the big booty mixes. You're gonna hear our saxophonist that we tour with, he's gonna come out and just crush it on sax. We're gonna, you know, some of our bigger shows, we'll bring out the drummers, we'll bring out live singers. You know, we'll have the special effects and the production value. You're gonna hear sing alongs that are nostalgic from when you were growing up. Up. You're gonna stuff like, you know, you're gonna high energy, you're gonna dance, you're gonna sweat, you're gonna cry. Yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah, in a lot of ways, it's. You know, it goes back to. Yeah, it's. It's an experience.
- [20:48]
Eli Sones
I would say we're pretty damn tactical with it.
- [20:52]
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- [22:17]
Podcast Host
What's the big, like, of all the memories you've had of being tactical and being strategic and bringing production, do you have one memory? You're like, that was my Grammy moment.
- [22:25]
Eli Sones
I mean, that's a good question. For tours, we go pretty heavy on, like, really, you know, it takes months for us. Like, we have Google sheets. Every single column's like a new category, and you're trying to fit the perfect thing. You're creating these moments. You're spending hours, like, editing these songs, making custom transitions, build ups. A good example is like, you know, we played Coachella a couple years ago and like, the set time's 45 minutes. But, like, that's like, hard, like, really hard to, like, fit, you know, your best show. And to do that, like, I think we ended up, you know, you're making Google sheets, you're doing math, you're, like, figuring it out. You're, like, doing test sets. You're trying things. So it's definitely not just like, let's try this, let's try that. Sure.
- [23:09]
Matt Helper
But you use the word moment. I think that's a word we use a lot when we're talking about our show, we literally, I know it's kind of maybe sounds a little cornier nowadays, it gets a little overused. But we literally, when we plan a show and we're like, okay, we're going on tour. It's going to be a 90 minute show every night. What are the moments of the show? And, you know, we literally try. We're like, the intro is a moment, then the midpoint, then the end, and then a few sprinkled in. But, like.
- [23:32]
Eli Sones
And what does that mean to you?
- [23:33]
Matt Helper
Yeah, it's like, how do you make something okay, if we're gonna play this song, Any DJ can play this song. It exists. How do we.
- [23:41]
Eli Sones
Well, not always, obviously. You're making, I mean, almost nothing we're playing.
- [23:44]
Matt Helper
No, no. Well, that's my point is if we are. Okay, like for example, Careless Whisper, the sax, you know, do, do, do. So, like, and I'm saying any DJ can play Careless Whisper, but what can we do? Okay, we have our live saxophonist. We're gonna go to Silence. The venue's gonna get dark. A cone made of lasers is gonna create a circle that he appears in with Fog Haze coming up. He's gonna play that by himself. No music. We're hidden. And then all of a sudden, at a certain point that we've kind of built up, we're gonna hit play and a huge backing beat is gonna come in. Flames are gonna go in the air and lasers are gonna come. And it's like, we can't take full ownership. Obviously, that's not our song. But like, that moment we now bring to every show. And it's a highlight every night.
- [24:31]
Eli Sones
You can just tell when, you know, everyone has their cell phone up.
- [24:34]
Podcast Host
Yeah, you can see it, you can feel it, you know it.
- [24:36]
Matt Helper
There's some that are more like music focused moments, but then we also have fun with it. And again, we're like, you know, we don't want to take ourselves so seriously. So we have these other moments in the middle of a show where they're fun for us, but then they're also hopefully weird enough and memorable enough that if you see it at a DJ
- [24:53]
Eli Sones
show, it's like, I want to.
- [24:53]
Matt Helper
So, like, here's an example. At the end of the show, we say, hey, guys, we want to take a picture with you. But we need one person from the crowd who wants to be in this picture. And everyone, you know. Oh, me, me.
- [25:02]
Podcast Host
Yeah, yeah.
- [25:03]
Matt Helper
We pick someone, they come on stage and we're like, all right, we didn't tell you something. We're gonna send you back to your seat unless you can make this basketball shot blindfolded. We bring out a mini hoop, give them a ball, and blindfold them.
- [25:15]
Eli Sones
They're like 20ft away, and we're like.
- [25:16]
Matt Helper
They're like, I'm not gonna make this. I'm like, no, no, try your best. And when we put on the blindfold on the screen, it says, go crazy. Like, they're gonna miss it. Go crazy.
- [25:24]
Eli Sones
I love it.
- [25:25]
Matt Helper
And so they put on the blindfold, they shoot, they airball, smoke blasters go out. Everyone goes crazy. They start jumping up and down, and we're like, oh, my God. Like, get in the picture. You did it.
- [25:36]
Eli Sones
And that's great stuff like that, you know, you try to, like, stand out.
- [25:39]
Matt Helper
FaceTime, our mom's on the screen. We've done so much stuff.
- [25:42]
Podcast Host
Wow.
- [25:43]
Eli Sones
Yeah, we've done a lot of fun stuff, but basically, you know, just trying to stand out or, like, you know, make it memorable. Take. Take little pieces from other genres that,
- [25:50]
Podcast Host
you know, that's a good branding trading secret for anyone. No matter what you're doing or how you're doing it, make it memorable. Do it different and think outside the box. And, like, the. The. The basketball example and the FaceTime example. I know you guys have talked a lot about putting costs into things, which is great. Those things don't cost much, right? Like, sometimes the best creativity hits don't cost much no matter what you are doing.
- [26:09]
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- [26:10]
Podcast Host
We've talked a lot about success. A lot of speakers have come on this show, and a lot of comedians and actors and even TV personalities are anchors. And I'll be like, I'm curious about the one moment they might remember where they completely flopped. Do you have that memory?
- [26:26]
Matt Helper
The horsehead one?
- [26:27]
Eli Sones
Well, we'll try to think of a real one, but a metaphor is, like, everything works. Like, of course we tried, like, at
- [26:32]
Matt Helper
the end of one. This is a little, like, trivial, but we had this idea that was kind of similar to the basketball idea, but it was that we were gonna do a cap shuffle like you do at a baseball game, where, like, on the screen, it hides a ball behind the hats. They shuffle, and you have to say where the ball ended up. And somehow we just overcomplicated this idea. We bought a, like, a rubber horse head mask.
- [26:54]
Eli Sones
Yeah, those, like, masks.
- [26:55]
Podcast Host
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [26:57]
Matt Helper
That was supposed to be so that they couldn't see the screen. Like, it was so bad that, like,
- [27:03]
Eli Sones
we tried the first two shows, and I was like.
- [27:06]
Podcast Host
And our crew was like, what's trivial about that?
- [27:08]
Matt Helper
Well, more that it wasn't like we
- [27:10]
Eli Sones
were trying to trick the person, but they couldn't get that thing on. This is in front of thousands of people, and it's just like.
- [27:15]
Podcast Host
It just didn't land well.
- [27:16]
Eli Sones
It's like you're, like, conducting this, like, magician.
- [27:19]
Podcast Host
I don't know what I'm doing.
- [27:20]
Matt Helper
And they're like, what?
- [27:21]
Eli Sones
Yeah, it's chaos, but basically, I think.
- [27:24]
Matt Helper
But more like big picture lesson is pivot.
- [27:26]
Podcast Host
When you pivot, pivot, the show goes on.
- [27:28]
Eli Sones
Yes.
- [27:29]
Podcast Host
The show goes out.
- [27:30]
Matt Helper
Okay, now, like, more like, more legit. I mean, there's been.
- [27:34]
Eli Sones
I mean, I would say the story of our career has been like, there's obviously wins, but there's not, like, one thing, like, overnight that you're like, holy shit, like, that made it. I almost have felt like that with, like, the losses too. Like, nothing too big, nothing too steady. Steady goes. You know what I mean?
- [27:51]
Matt Helper
I think some of the biggest frustrating ones have been when something just ends up taking so much effort and attention from ourselves and also from the whole team, and then it ends up feeling like that was not worth the squeeze, how much went into it, even if, you know, even if it was financially appealing.
- [28:10]
Eli Sones
We did this awesome show, Sick show, with Fortnite. This was a couple years ago. Honestly, it was a great experience, and the show was actually really fun, and we made an amazing trip, and it was in Denmark. But one thing we learned from an experience like that is, like, it was a huge offer, it was great. Everything was great. And honestly, they were great to work with, but it ended up being what we've seen. It was. Our team was on meetings for, like, three months every week, and they were texting. Like, there was just a constant drag on one show. Like, as in, the resources were just getting drained, and, like, no one could focus on other things. And this is just one show. And this was months in advance, so it almost felt like things weren't getting done that maybe would move the needle more, you know? And it felt like after that show, we're like, well, what about this, this, this, this, this? And it's like, ah, they didn't real. We didn't really get the legwork done when we needed to because their efforts
- [29:07]
Podcast Host
are just all deployed. That comes into entrepreneurship, and that's when you have to not be a dj and you've got to be a CEO, right?
- [29:13]
Eli Sones
CEO be like, yo, this is hanging too much. Less resources here. Focus on this. And it's honestly, that's like something we're like always learning on, especially the last couple of years.
- [29:23]
Podcast Host
It's hard.
- [29:24]
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Podcast Host
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- [30:32]
Podcast Host
Obviously the industry shifted with AI, right? We've seen, I think it was a couple months ago, number one trending song on Apple was literally an AI song, which is wild. So I'll talk about that. But another trend we're seeing especially with Gen Z is the lack of alcohol consumption. Because people are drinking less, they're spent like there's studies, they're spending less on clubs, they're not buying tables. What they did, is that impacting your financial success as a, as a duo?
- [30:57]
Eli Sones
It's hard to say. I mean it was, you can't control it.
- [30:59]
Podcast Host
It'd be consumption, right? So I'm an uncontrollable how that impacts your indirect impact.
- [31:03]
Eli Sones
So it's almost would be hard for us to know, you know what I mean?
- [31:06]
Matt Helper
Here's almost an example is like when we play in Vegas, for example, you might think, oh, they booked us on a Friday night during this busy week, it's gonna crush. And on the opposite side, oh, they booked us on a Wednesday night on a slow week. It's gonna be tough. You never know what's gonna happen because all it takes is this one person decides it's their birthday and they are spending $300,000 on Crazy Magnum sized bottles. And then all of a sudden that's
- [31:35]
Eli Sones
like it was a great night.
- [31:37]
Matt Helper
Wow. Two friends crushed it. And we're like, did we? We just got lucky with this one guy.
- [31:41]
Podcast Host
A lot of like club owners and promoters and stuff. Do they dictate your success based on alcohol spend?
- [31:47]
Eli Sones
I would say in our deal, long term, it probably is relevant. Like, are they making their money or. No. Interesting day to day. Usually. Usually the offers aren't really tied. Maybe there's bonuses, but. But long term. Yeah, for sure. I mean, if people are, you know, spending and there's two different sides of it. Like, there are the people, like, you know, maybe people are not drinking as much. Maybe they don't want to spend 25, $30 on a drink in Vegas. Whatever it is on the table side, I don't know. I think tables are still pretty strong. And I think that's actually like really, like in a Vegas, like where they're really breaking it. They need that because that.
- [32:26]
Podcast Host
That pays the bills.
- [32:27]
Eli Sones
That pays the bills.
- [32:28]
Podcast Host
That pays the bills. The GA is.
- [32:30]
Matt Helper
But that's the balance is like, the GA is like, who's giving you.
- [32:33]
Podcast Host
They're giving the energy.
- [32:34]
Eli Sones
Yes, yes.
- [32:34]
Podcast Host
Right. And I, And I think there's a true, like, if I was a business manager of a dj, I think there's a true argument to say that person spent 350,000. Right. But maybe if they didn't have the vibe the GA going nuts. The guys or girls that come to their table. Oh, yeah, they're not. They're spending a hundred.
- [32:50]
Matt Helper
Right.
- [32:50]
Podcast Host
In that scenario. So there. That connects to you.
- [32:53]
Eli Sones
It's. You need both.
- [32:54]
Podcast Host
Do you guys get like, will you. Do you ask your managers? Do they report to you guys, like alcohol sales?
- [32:59]
Eli Sones
Is that a thing for Vegas specifically? Because the deal is very centered on, like, stuff like that.
- [33:04]
Matt Helper
I think we've really.
- [33:05]
Podcast Host
That's so cool to know that.
- [33:07]
Matt Helper
Right? Year we just started year four at the Wynn Encore and we're like, I mean, again, it's probably part of just. We're interested in this stuff and we want to always be, you know, improving and growing. But we are very involved. Ask for reports. And not only that, but we asked for like, we're like, what you tell us, what should we do? We want your club to do well. We both win. So we're like, you know, if you want us to sometimes we'll go later. You know, we're only supposed to go till here. But if you think there's some good people that you want us to keep going later, we're happy to. If you think, oh, we do like a cheers where we say Everyone go grab a drink and do that. Like, little, you know, they're not like hacks, but we're like, yeah.
- [33:48]
Eli Sones
And we don't know. I don't know if they work, honestly,
- [33:50]
Matt Helper
but we're just like, look, we're. We want it to be the team player, though.
- [33:53]
Eli Sones
Yeah, Team player.
- [33:54]
Matt Helper
No leaf is unturned. We're trying. And, you know, if we did everything we can and you're still whatever. The finances are not there. What? There's only tried our best. The only thing we can do at that point is just zap a hit single and trust us. We're trying.
- [34:08]
Podcast Host
You know that we're trying. I'm just curious now, like, what's the craziest amount you've ever seen someone spend on a bottle service, like a table?
- [34:14]
Eli Sones
Honestly, it's hard for us to know the exact amounts. But it is funny. Like, we have had people where, you know, like, our. Our dude in Vegas. Or like, you know, the. The promoter, the top promoter, Leo's liaisons, who are, like, kind of dealing with us. They'll just, like, whisper in air and be like, this guy is just buying bottles. Like, just hang out with them, bring
- [34:32]
Podcast Host
them up, meet and greet.
- [34:35]
Eli Sones
I don't. I don't know what he was spending. I don't remember his name, but I remember it was like two years ago. We played for so long. Oh, my gosh.
- [34:44]
Podcast Host
What is like, is someone who doesn't know the DJ game. So long means what?
- [34:47]
Eli Sones
Vegas is usually longer than. Than normal. Like, Vegas. Well, at least in our kind of sub genre, but two hours is Vegas standard. And then. And we were usually on at 1am so it's late, so we're usually ending at 3am but this one was like, all right, it's 2:45. Our tour manager kind of nudges. He gives us, like, a phone sign, says, like, hey, you know, there. These guys over there are like, really spending. Sean, our Vegas guy, says, you know, ask if you can keep going. We're like, yeah, sure, no problem. Whatever. Like, we do 15 more minutes. He does another phone. He's like, dude, they just bought, like, five more bottles. And we're like, all right, fine, whatever. Let's just keep going. It ends up being like maybe three, three 45 or three three hours. And like, 40 minutes. And we're like, I have no music left.
- [35:36]
Podcast Host
Yeah. You're like, I don't know.
- [35:37]
Eli Sones
But it's like. And then finally the guy starts, like, not buying as much, and we're like, all right, all right, time to Wrap it up. But, you know, like, we're, you know, you gotta. You gotta make everyone happy and try to do your thing. And obviously it's fun. It's obviously late too.
- [35:49]
Podcast Host
But that's. I mean, it's so co. Some of this stuff. A question if I have for you, then on the. When you're DJing, obviously we're talking about, like, the alcohol, the impact of the industry and stuff. Do you guys, like, do you ever drink when you're DJing? Like, how do you control that? Because, like, obviously DJ four times a week.
- [36:03]
Eli Sones
We have a healthy relationship.
- [36:05]
Matt Helper
Some of it also is, like, nerves. There's a lot of people that, you know, they start as, like, bedroom producers. They're. They're not really the, like, life of the party. Okay. We're putting you on this stage and entertain this event for two hours. So I think that's how it starts for a lot of people is like, like calming their nerves. They want to, you know, get a little. Maybe not like wasted, but, you know, get a little buzz. Yeah. But I think when you get to a point where you don't need that, then all of a sudden you're like, I feel so much better when I.
- [36:31]
Eli Sones
But we will drink.
- [36:32]
Podcast Host
Sure.
- [36:32]
Matt Helper
But like a drink, like one drink.
- [36:34]
Podcast Host
You have a couple drinks or whatever.
- [36:35]
Eli Sones
Yeah.
- [36:35]
Matt Helper
And plenty of shows where it's zero.
- [36:37]
Eli Sones
Yeah.
- [36:37]
Matt Helper
And then plenty of shows, like, tours
- [36:39]
Eli Sones
where it's like five night, five, five a week. Like, you just can't drink.
- [36:43]
Podcast Host
There's just no way. Do it. Yeah, there's just no way.
- [36:45]
Matt Helper
And we want. We, like, like, like in our, like, normal lives, we. We go to bed early, we wake up early. We want to, like, work out.
- [36:51]
Podcast Host
Yeah.
- [36:51]
Eli Sones
We got. It's hard to have a real life. I mean, I. I think, to answer your question with, like, exactly, like, I think we. We just each had a couple experiences where, like, I cannot do this again. Where it's like, you know, you have a show Friday, Saturday, Friday, Saturday, like, Friday night. Like, you know, you drink and then you have a 6am flight. It's like, I am so hungover. This is the worst feeling ever, like, ever. Like, how am I supposed to go through this airport hungover, get on the flight, Go get in an Uber, go to the hotel, do all this stuff and, like, and then go play a show. It's like, no. Like, eventually it'll fail. So, you know, there's a lot of
- [37:31]
Matt Helper
peers that burn out because of the
- [37:33]
Eli Sones
booth or stop drinking completely.
- [37:35]
Podcast Host
Yeah. Yeah. I feel like you got to do one or the other one, follow up question on the window. I was thinking about the win. You do a residency, you don't have those expenses, right? Because they have the club, they have the production. So then how do those deals get structured?
- [37:46]
Eli Sones
Those are kind of the shows where it's like, you know, you're still bringing a show. Like you gotta. You gotta like bring your A game. But at the same time, there's not the same overhead. So, you know, you don't have to bring a lot of people. We have a few people. We'll bring our saxophonist, our tour manager, and our videographer. Compared to something where you have to bring like 20 people or whatever it is. So those are the ones where you can end up making money.
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Podcast Host
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- [39:33]
Podcast Host
When you say four years, are those renewed or do they sign you for four years?
- [39:36]
Eli Sones
No, no. Every deal is different. But we've been doing single deals. Single deals.
- [39:40]
Podcast Host
Single deals. Who would you say is your biggest competition?
- [39:42]
Matt Helper
It's almost like, in a weird way, this is not a cop out, but it's almost like other forms of entertainment are the competition. Like in Vegas. It's like, yes, you could choose Another dj. But it's also like, are you going to the clubs at all or are you going to the magic show and then going to bed? So like, we don't really ever think of like that artist. Well, we want him to quit because I think it's more like you're up
- [40:08]
Eli Sones
against different people at different orders every night. Like you're never gonna hit the same person.
- [40:11]
Matt Helper
It's surprisingly like supportive in the sense that like when other DJs do well, that's good for like the whole scene
- [40:19]
Eli Sones
for the most part, I think.
- [40:20]
Podcast Host
Like, yeah, that makes sense. There are some. So I own a talent agency and what we'll do is a lot of digital sponsored deals for creators, celebrities, et cetera. And their goal amongst the agents right now is they're trying to get a million dollar deal for one post. That's their. And they're getting pretty close. They're getting up there with the talent that they work with. What is your like million dollar proposal? What's your, what's your financial. You're like, I'm really. I want to, I want to get paid this percent or this amount of year. Like what's the money connected to your finance dream right now?
- [40:50]
Matt Helper
The live touring side has been such a majority of our revenue that the goal. And again, it's like, you know, you can't always control this. A little bit of luck, a little bit of timing and obviously, yeah, we're gonna do our best. But like if you get on the original music side, if you get the hit and the follow up hit and the follow up hit, all of a sudden that side of your business can really, really come into play and also be self perpetuating because you're getting royalties on it for the rest of your life. So whereas us, us music has been music, some of our songs have done very well. But like it's kind of just been part of the toolbox again going that like goes into the live show, Come
- [41:31]
Eli Sones
to a show, come buy tickets.
- [41:32]
Matt Helper
You like our songs. You like two friends come to a show. The, the deals we're getting are not like massive on the, on the music, on the music side.
- [41:42]
Eli Sones
So you.
- [41:43]
Matt Helper
We are spending a lot of money ourselves. Like right now we don't have a label. So it's like we were like, all right, you know, we want to do a music video. We don't have to, but we want to because it's going to help the song. Okay, who's paying for that? We are, we want to do a radio campaign. Who's paying for that we are, we don't have to, but like we're trying
- [42:01]
Eli Sones
to metal, you know, spend money to make money.
- [42:05]
Matt Helper
One day when it's like the offer is too good to refuse and they will cover all of that. It would, it would be nice looking long term.
- [42:12]
Eli Sones
Like. And you see in the news like these like iconic artists, old and new, like are selling catalogs. Like, like you want to be in a position to be able to do that and have a catalog worth selling. And in DJ world it's happened. It's definitely happening. Especially the, you know, like Calvin, like Calvin Harris Deadmas just did a huge one with his label.
- [42:31]
Podcast Host
How much did he sell it for?
- [42:32]
Eli Sones
Well, it's not his music only. It was like hundreds. It's his whole label from like 20 years to like hundred. But it was like 50 million. It's crazy. And it would be awesome to have that revenue stream because at some point you stop touring, you know what I mean? Or you tour less that because the
- [42:49]
Podcast Host
revenue stream from the music has come from originals.
- [42:52]
Eli Sones
That stream just doesn't really stop. You know what I mean? It just touring is extremely like, you know, you can't scale it. You are doing exactly.
- [43:00]
Podcast Host
You got to be.
- [43:01]
Eli Sones
Got to be there. Yeah, that side is A, more scalable and then B, forever.
- [43:06]
Matt Helper
In a way, almost feels like if you take a few months off and you don't do shows, like how quickly does it just like it's all apart.
- [43:13]
Eli Sones
I know everyone feels and I think
- [43:15]
Podcast Host
that, I think anyone on social media that has a brand connected to digital feels like that.
- [43:19]
Matt Helper
And so you almost like, like you want to feel like you cross that threshold where you're such like a. Almost like a legacy act where even if you went a couple years without releasing a song, you're still selling tickets because people know your name so well that you don't need to be like so hot and current and keeping up with all.
- [43:36]
Eli Sones
You know, back then there was not as many acts that really pop like Rolling Stones. They don't have to release a song.
- [43:41]
Podcast Host
No.
- [43:42]
Eli Sones
You know what I mean?
- [43:42]
Podcast Host
They're good. Exactly.
- [43:43]
Eli Sones
We'll see where that. You know, now there's billions of artists. Like not billions, but that. Hundreds of millions.
- [43:49]
Podcast Host
Yeah, 100%.
- [43:50]
Matt Helper
But I think, you know, like this is just such a random example, but from when I was in college, like a guy like Afrojack, if I ask my friends, like, oh, you want to go see Afro Jack at this festival? It's like they probably couldn't name a single song, but they were like, oh yeah, Afrojack he's great. Like, of course. And it's like again, that kind of goes into like the brand and each art, you know, you having your thing
- [44:13]
Podcast Host
that's like, that lives on.
- [44:15]
Matt Helper
Yeah, yeah.
- [44:16]
Podcast Host
With your originals, like, you make like make hundreds of thousands. You make tens of thousands. How much you make off originals?
- [44:21]
Eli Sones
It's a great question. I mean, it's.
- [44:22]
Podcast Host
Because it doesn't sound like it's a big part of your business.
- [44:24]
Eli Sones
It sounds like it's. I mean, it's a piece of the
- [44:26]
Podcast Host
brand, but it's not a big piece of the res.
- [44:28]
Matt Helper
It's not insignificant.
- [44:29]
Eli Sones
It's not insignificant, but it's. I would say if they're. If the avenues are like. And these are guesses. I actually don't know, but like merch, touring, music, brand deals. Brand. I would say touring and brand is at 90.
- [44:47]
Matt Helper
Yeah, probably.
- [44:48]
Eli Sones
Yeah.
- [44:48]
Podcast Host
Which makes sense. And then those other areas create and those. But those. It's kind of like the gasoline to those engines, right?
- [44:54]
Eli Sones
Yeah.
- [44:54]
Podcast Host
It gets you the new show, it gets you the new content, gets you a brand deal.
- [44:57]
Eli Sones
You can't do the other without no music. You know what I mean? So.
- [45:00]
Podcast Host
And then you can go to a show and you can go to brands and pitch. This is how many people will be here. This is how many eyeballs. Plus we'll have a social. You can be the headline sponsor of that. Right. And I got to imagine that is actually bringing more revenue than sometimes even the fee to be be there.
- [45:13]
Eli Sones
100%.
- [45:13]
Podcast Host
Right? Yeah. That's the power of digital with your branding, which is brilliant. And I think that's what you guys have done so different. Right?
- [45:20]
Eli Sones
We're learning on the job. It's.
- [45:22]
Sponsor Advertiser
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- [45:22]
Eli Sones
It feels like every day the. The world changes. Like, it's not like we. When we started. So, you know, there's new. There's new places to upload your music, there's new social media platforms, there's new trends. And it's like, you know, you gotta. It's so hard to stay up with it. Whether it's learning yourself, hiring the right people. Maybe that's like been the hardest thing for us growing pains the last couple years is like knowing what to do yourself for, like, versus being like, you know what, dude, I don't want to do this. I don't know how to do this. Let's get someone who can learn. And that's hard.
- [45:54]
Matt Helper
Yeah.
- [45:55]
Podcast Host
Let's end with this topic because it's one we gotta talk about is just AI impact on music. What do you Assume that has to be some form of threat to your business. Is it a threat? Is it not a threat? How does it impact the DJ duo, two friends?
- [46:09]
Eli Sones
Well, like we're saying, like our world is so much more, like our day to day is so much more than just music. Like you're managing a business so we can talk the music side, but also on the other side, like in a lot of ways it's made things way more efficient, you know, instead, like I will do things as easy as now instead of writing a massive list of my thoughts on, you know, whether things from merchandise to notes on a music video to like strategy, things that I think people need to be doing. I'll just like put it into Gemini or ChatGPT and be like, please make this a lot clearer. And it's like, you know, stuff like that is actual real productivity savers. And so I think there's obviously great, great ways to utilize things. On the actual like art side, I think it's on the music side. I mean, people are doing crazy shit already. I think it'll be inevitably a tool 100% and people already are using it. And it, I think in a lot of ways parts of it are inevitable. But I am interested. I think the next year is gonna. If you asked me this in one year, I think we'd already like know an answer in a way, you know what I mean? Of like, you know, things are getting so much better so quick that it's, that it's exponential. Like you can, you know, I'm getting Instagram ads constantly. It's like, all right, just sing like a bad melody without auto tune like into your phone. It's like the perfect saxophone sounding thing with all like the grace notes and everything. I'm like, damn, you know how long that would have taken me to do that in midi, which is like, you know, for a synth. It would be impossible, actually. Impossible to try to get our saxophonists to do it. Well, we have to go potentially you have to, to rent a studio and try to describe it. And that's kind of how we've gone about things most of our career and we have so many like amazing people that we can rely on. But especially if you're like just starting, it's like, damn, you can't like afford it. So like the barriers to entry are getting lower and lower and it's almost, I mean, inevitably the skill will switch. Like how coders are, you know, now the best coders are they have such a deep knowledge of code, but they also know how to use Claude like perfectly. Like how to use it to, you know, and I think inevitably music, at least in electronic music, like, I mean, other music too. Like people are going to figure out how to use it in a way that complements them rather than takes anything over.
- [48:34]
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- [48:53]
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- [49:41]
Matt Helper
There's going to be a scandal one day where it's like a mask dj, like a marshmallow vibe.
- [49:45]
Eli Sones
Yeah.
- [49:45]
Matt Helper
Who has hits on the radio and Spotify and then it's going to come out that there was never even a human.
- [49:50]
Podcast Host
It's just a fraud. It was a robot.
- [49:52]
Matt Helper
It was an animatronic robot and the whole thing was no humans involved.
- [49:56]
Podcast Host
I love it. That's good stuff. All right, well, we're going to wrap with your trading secret. Before we wrap with your trading secret, one contract you'll never forget. It could be the lowest amount, the biggest amount. It could just be a cool brand you like, give me a contract you'll never forget in your career.
- [50:10]
Matt Helper
So the first Vegas shows we ever did were way were like 2015, 2016. And it was at a. It was at the Linq hotel, which doesn't have a real like club in it, especially a day club. It has like the pool, the hotel pool for the guests. And they set up a DJ booth and that was their version of like a day party. And they booked us at fort three shows each were $6,000. It was $18,000. And at the time, that was. Those were the days we were talking about earlier where it was like, you know, $3,000. So it was double per show. And I'll just. We were so stoked. We're like, Vegas, baby. You're paying us double. This is big time.
- [50:53]
Eli Sones
You made it, baby.
- [50:54]
Matt Helper
And then I remember the guy, the liaison guy meeting us in the lobby and being like, I'm so excited. We got you guys, like, you know, we got you at such a steal. I can't believe. Leave only $6,000. And we're like, oh, my God, it's even better.
- [51:09]
Eli Sones
I love it. Like, obviously, tax rage. Hey.
- [51:12]
Podcast Host
He said, yeah, yeah, get on it. Negotiate better. That's awesome.
- [51:16]
Eli Sones
I love it.
- [51:17]
Podcast Host
Trading secret. You've given us a lot, but just like. Like kind of a master class to your. To your life. It could be personally, it could be financially, professionally. It could be branding, marketing. It could be something you just live by.
- [51:27]
Matt Helper
I'll give some examples.
- [51:28]
Eli Sones
But the overall theme is better said eloquently.
- [51:32]
Matt Helper
The overall message is there's no rules. And here are some examples. Maybe these don't sound, like, revolutionary, but early on especially, it came into play where, like, you're not going to wait around for other people to give you golden opportunities. It just doesn't happen. Maybe some people, they're so once in a generation that, okay, everyone's knocking on their door. But I think an example is, like, when we were starting doing shows and we had a college audience, there's no rules. So what we would do is we would copy and paste a message and DM it to. We'd look at the colleges in the area. You know, you got tufts, which is 30 minutes out of the city. You have Harvard, which is in Cambridge. You have bu you have bc. We go on their Instagram. You search the name of that plus other Greek letters.
- [52:20]
Eli Sones
A PI, A Phi Sigma, Chi, blah, blah, blah.
- [52:23]
Matt Helper
Then, okay, you know, then you want to make them feel special. Sorry. If anyone's listening, you got this message
- [52:29]
Podcast Host
and you thought it was only three
- [52:30]
Matt Helper
or seven, but, you know, you say, hey, we love have. You know, we were in fraternities. We love having all the fraternity kids out there. We want to hook it.
- [52:38]
Eli Sones
Specifically. We love having, you know, we love
- [52:40]
Matt Helper
having a Sigma news. You guys are awesome. We would love to, you know, we'd love to have you at the show. If you think there's enough people, we could try to get a group discount for you. And you, the social chair that's reading this message. We'll Hook it up for you. You'll be on our guest list. So that guy now is like, oh, I should take this seriously.
- [52:58]
Eli Sones
I'll get backstage and then, okay, then
- [53:00]
Matt Helper
you do all the frats. Then you're like, you know what? Let's swim team, lacrosse team, women's softball team. Okay, you're done with that. Now you do music club, pre law, pre med. And they would be like, why are you. I'm pre med. Why are you messaging me? We love having.
- [53:15]
Podcast Host
We love the law students jamming out
- [53:17]
Eli Sones
just in case someone gets get sick.
- [53:19]
Matt Helper
Okay, you know, that may sound, like, silly. That was. That ends up. This guy was like, oh, yeah, sign us up for 100 tickets. Sign us up for 40 tickets. Sign us up for 350 tickets. I got all my friends to do it. All of a sudden, show is sold out. And I think that was an example where it's like, maybe now you know all. Everyone's so smart and they're hacking things. But, like, for us, it was like, no one. No one was like, oh, we have a marketing plan. We are going to attack the college demographic. We're just like, all right, we're doing it.
- [53:48]
Podcast Host
All right, that's a good one. I'd give one, like, if my training seeker, anyone's. Listen, we'll keep this one on. Let's call it. My theme of the week is like, the way people treat you are the way that you condition them to treat you, and, like, making sure that as you continue to grow and change, the expectations that you put onto other are being crystally clear. And I think, like, even another one is, you know, especially at the company that I work with, or if I'm even looking at myself to, like, get feedback on the podcast or if I'm doing a speaking event or I'm investing in something or it's. It's creating content. I'm. I think with feedback, it's a very open word used in the business space. You might use it with your managers, right? Or you might go to a venue and be like, guys, give me feedback. I think feedback's only as good as the way that you direct the question to get the feedback. Because if you create an open forum, it's going to be too general. And I think, like, the better questions you can ask to people, like, when it comes to feedback, like, like, if I ask you guys, hey, on this episode, what did you think about, you know, I'm making this up in my. My. My questions. Were my questions unique? Were they different? Did you think, like, I want Specific feedback. And I think you are the captain of receiving feedback based on the question you ask. Those are my, like, those are great. Those are like my this week trading scene.
- [54:58]
Eli Sones
I like that. All right, I, I have a good one. Being able to have the difficult conversations like earlier rather than later because first of all, a lot of people are thinking the same thing, but like, someone just needs to like, say it or do it. And I think now, two years ago, like three years ago, like, we kind of just be like, all right, you know what? I don't control that. I do this, this, this, this. But I feel like nowadays we're more like, you know, we, we kind of being like, this doesn't feel right. Like, let's just say this doesn't feel right or whatever. Let's say it. And we're getting better at it always. But, but if someone's doing a great job, tell them. And if someone is not doing a great job, figure out how you're gonna like either a. Why are they not doing a great job? Is it something I'm doing? Is it something the environment? Is it a lack of passion or a change in the feeling? You gotta figure that stuff out. And they're not fun things to talk about. Especially on the negative side. If someone's feels like it could be your team, it could be a collaborator, it could be whatever. It's like, I don't think they're doing a good job. Like, that's a hard conversation to have. But I think you're only hurting yourself by not having it.
- [56:13]
Matt Helper
Something's not feeling right. You don't want it to keep it a secret until it gets to the extreme of, okay, it's over. It's like, all right, hey, just so you know, blah, blah, blah, let's try to fix this. You know, we, like, we have a few more check ins now with the whole team. We do more like goals calls. We do more of like, hey, here's what we're kind of expecting. And we're not trying to be like assholes. We're not trying to be dictators. But like, we know how much blood, sweat and tears. And we, you know, this is 24 7. That like, we have certain expectations and you know, even financially, we know how much, much certain commissions are, certain salaries are. We're like, yeah, like, you know, let's, let's make sure everyone's feeling good. Yeah.
- [57:03]
Podcast Host
And I feel like if you're gut, actually this is kind of a cool training secret that connects to exactly what you're saying. You're you're saying is like, when you're. When you're feeling it, like, let's. You're being proactive with these conversations. You're not sitting and waiting for an event to have. Like, you're just, like, diving in. Like, you're. It's like, it sounds like you're. You're. You're like, I'm the. I'm the CEO now. Like, I'm. We're making decisions.
- [57:22]
Eli Sones
Yeah.
- [57:22]
Podcast Host
And it also sounds like what you're saying when you're talking about, like. Like how you were so worried about the impact that would have on your career is that you guys have learned that, like, it doesn't matter if there's management or someone you hire, someone you fire. No one controls your career but you.
- [57:36]
Eli Sones
Like, it sounds in a lot of
- [57:38]
Podcast Host
ways, like, you control that.
- [57:39]
Eli Sones
Obviously, you know, we have a great team and everything now, and you are always tinkering and trying things. But, yeah, like, in the end, it's you. And it's funny because, you know, you're saying, like, you know, you're so scared to, like, make this move here and there. And, you know, we. We've had these life experiences now, and we're like, you're still always scared to, like, damn, do I hire this person? It's expensive. Whatever. But, like, I would say now we're at least very aware that, like, we have to at least have these conversations. You know what I mean? We cannot just put it under the rug and be like, I'm just gonna make music on my laptop and assume everything's gonna be okay. Cause in the end, it's just gonna get either worse or things will boil over in a way where it's not as productive.
- [58:21]
Podcast Host
It's true. It's like bleeding doesn't stop until you put the stitches in or you put the band.
- [58:26]
Eli Sones
That's what I should have said.
- [58:27]
Podcast Host
That was good. All right, well, guys, let's wrap with what's going on. Like, where can everyone find everything you have going on? The music, where your next stops? Yeah, talk to us. Where can we find everything?
- [58:37]
Matt Helper
Yeah, I mean, socially. Search two friends. You should find us two friends on Instagram. You know what to do. The two handsome men in the profile picture. That's us on the road. We're pretty much on the road every single weekend. Twofriendsmusic.com tour is where you'll see everything. But we got some big stuff coming. We got Red Rock soon. We got Big Bootyland Chicago soon for the premiere of volume 27. That's probably the biggest show of the year. We got some fun festivals we're kind of doing.
- [59:05]
Eli Sones
We have a ton of music coming right now. We're kind of like in our country era. That's why we're here in Nashville right now. And we released two of the. We're doing this, like, country project, which is pretty sick. We're really pumped on it. So we've released two of the songs. We have, like, a whole project coming, but we're doing some of these big boot sets, which are, you know, any
- [59:26]
Podcast Host
artists you could tease.
- [59:27]
Eli Sones
So we just released a bunch of, like, these, like, awesome, like, I don't know, we've met, like, a lot of people lately because we've been doing this. But we just released a song with Jake Banfield. Released a song with Chris Lane. Both amazing dudes. We have a bunch of stuff we're working on coming up with. Who do we got? Who do we got?
- [59:45]
Matt Helper
Dustin Lynch. We got Jessica Bio. We got Breland. We got Tyler Braden.
- [59:50]
Eli Sones
Tyler Braden. Like, all these, like, awesome, like, killing it. I don't know. So many talented people here. It's, like, pretty.
- [59:54]
Matt Helper
And they're all on national, or not all of them, but a lot of national.
- [59:57]
Eli Sones
That's why we're here.
- [59:57]
Matt Helper
Yeah.
- [59:58]
Podcast Host
All right. But yeah, like, country genre, here we come.
- [60:00]
Eli Sones
Yeah. And then we got a bunch of stuff like this summer. Like, we're not only country guys.
- [60:05]
Matt Helper
We're a little bit above you guys.
- [60:06]
Podcast Host
Do it all.
- [60:06]
Eli Sones
I feel like, for everything.
- [60:08]
Podcast Host
And where can people find, like, your. One of your salad for whatever. Like, for your tour or.
- [60:13]
Eli Sones
Yeah, the show.
- [60:13]
Podcast Host
Your next show. Where can people find tickets?
- [60:15]
Eli Sones
Best place2friendsmusic.com tour. Okay, not. Get this. The StubHub ad. And. And think, there you go. That's. You're just gonna pay triple. And there's no great plug there.
- [60:24]
Podcast Host
That's a trading secret.
- [60:25]
Eli Sones
It's always, I mean, go direct.
- [60:27]
Podcast Host
You're helping the artists, you're helping the small.
- [60:28]
Eli Sones
I mean, I'm just helping you out
- [60:30]
Podcast Host
and you're helping yourself out. Yeah, right?
- [60:31]
Eli Sones
Yeah. For real. But, yeah, we're stoked. We got a lot of cool stuff coming. And then we're kind of playing in 2027 starts.
- [60:37]
Matt Helper
It's crazy because it feels like 2026 just started, but we were on phone calls talking about, what's the 2027 plan? I'm like, well, I don't even know what I'm doing next week.
- [60:46]
Podcast Host
We gotta do next week.
- [60:47]
Matt Helper
What am I doing?
- [60:47]
Podcast Host
I think it all started, you know, from Middle school, high school and college. And now it's been cool to watch. It's been fun to be at your shows. I'll tell you, they're unbelievable. And guys, thank you for being on train.
- [60:58]
Eli Sones
See dude, thanks for having us.
- [60:59]
Podcast Host
Let's. Making that money money Living that dream Making that money money la me Making that money Living that dream.
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Eli Sones
Early Birds always rise to
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Matt Helper
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Eli Sones
Rise and shine.
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