294. Jon Bouffard: From $15/Hour Jobs to 6-Figure Brand Deals & Building a Creator Business

Summary

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Trading Secrets – Episode 294

Jon Bouffard: From $15/Hour Jobs to 6-Figure Brand Deals & Building a Creator Business

Release Date: April 27, 2026
Host: Jason Tartick
Guest: Jon Bouffard

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Episode Overview

In this candid and often hilarious episode, Jason Tartick sits down with Jon Bouffard, whose journey spans from working a string of low-wage jobs (including occupational therapy and teaching aide positions) to becoming one of the internet’s most beloved and successful content creators. Known for his creative partnership with his wife Alex, Jon opens up about their meteoric career shift, their financial journey, content creation business, and the trials and triumphs that come with building a modern brand. The episode is filled with genuine insights, industry “trading secrets,” honest reflections on fame, and sharp-witted banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jon’s Humble Beginnings and Winding Career Path

• Post-college Struggles:
  • Jon graduated with a business degree during the 2009 mortgage crisis, facing a saturated job market and taking a series of low-wage positions: teacher’s aide ($23k/year), Wells Fargo mortgage sales (under the name "Dave" due to another Jon at the office), and work as a vocational counselor ([04:40]–[15:43]).
• Occupational Therapy:
  • Returned to school for a 2.5-year master's in OT after his mom suggested a career shift ([16:29]–[16:46]).
  • OT pay started at $33/hr, later maxed out at $45/hr after several years and job hopping ([16:50]–[17:39]).

"I’ve had shitty jobs my whole life, literally. I never expected any of this to come to fruition."
— Jon Bouffard [04:45]

• Memorable/Traumatic Moments:
  • Describes being held at gunpoint during his vocational counselor days, an event that pushed him closer to a career transition ([13:20]–[15:13]).

2. Meeting Alex—The Origins of the Creator Partnership

• Relationship Spark:
  • Swiped on Tinder, and met Alex while still working OT. She taught Jon the basics of videography, leveraging her film background ([17:44]–[18:17]).
• Wedding Videography Business:
  • Moved to New York/New Jersey area for videography; started at $3k/wedding, eventually charged $10k for premium packages ([18:34]–[24:20]).
  • Describes intense workload—editing one wedding took ~50 hours ([19:56]), leading to a maximum of ~33 weddings/year, with one year earning ~$182k ([24:33]).

3. The Leap into Full-Time Content Creation

• Transition Decision:
  • As TikTok and sponsored content took off, realized that a single brand deal could match a wedding’s payout in a fraction of the time ([19:49]–[21:01]).

"We were grinding... Once I noticed like a deal was just as much as a wedding, I’m like, okay, I could do this in one day versus 50 hours. It’s a no brainer."
— Jon Bouffard [27:46]

• Market Shift:
  • Creator economy was becoming more lucrative than traditional videography ([27:17]–[28:36]).
  • Emphasizes the financial and lifestyle rationale for pivoting away from weddings.

4. Content Strategy & The Business of Creativity

• Division of Labor:

  • Alex is the primary creative/script writer; Jon supports with acting and minor script adjustments ([33:53]–[34:48]).
  • Outsource editing as needed to balance time with their new parental responsibilities ([34:02]–[34:20]).

• Content Evolution:

  • Videos draw from real relationship dynamics—relatable and sometimes dark humor ([35:14]–[49:41]).
  • They actively choose not to feature their daughter, Lucy, due to safety, privacy, and moral concerns—NOT just legal reasons ([35:39]–[37:26]).

"I’m so anti putting your kids online. ...That’s just greed. ...You’re exploiting your child."
— Jon Bouffard [36:39]

5. Navigating the Creator Industry—Brand Deals, Equity, & Identity

• Financial Milestones:

  • First "life-changing" payday: $5,000 with Shark products ([40:39]).
  • Now targets six-figure brand deals regularly; annual brand deals often over $100k ([46:19]).
  • Aspiration: "I would love to make a seven-figure deal." ([41:17])
  • Dream big: If he wrote himself a check, it’d be for $37 million in 10 years ([41:38]).

• Brand Collaboration:

  • Finds most satisfaction when brands allow them creative freedom ([44:28]–[45:34]).

• Traditional vs. Digital Media Crossovers:

  • They’ve dabbled in traditional TV, but find the digital space gives more ownership, autonomy, and growth ([30:02]–[33:20]).
  • Jon notes: "Traditional looks at digital like we're beneath them... but digital is the future." ([32:11])

6. Misconceptions, Burnout, & Life in the Public Eye

• The Grind:

  • Debunks the "easy life" myth; content creation is relentless, requiring constant output to stay relevant ([39:24]–[40:31]).
  • Balance is hard—a theme revisited with the "four burner theory" (family, friends, health, work) ([51:45]–[53:03]).

• Behind the Scenes:

  • Jon handles finances for the business; Alex handles creative ([62:21]).
  • They have open money conversations and similar values around spending ([61:52]).
  • Confesses to being scammed multiple times in "rookie" fashion ([63:00]–[64:08]).

• On Partnerships:

  • Stresses the importance of having a partner who makes you better and being open about money and goals ([69:10]).

"Surround yourself with people better than yourself... I want to be the dumbest person in the room." — Jon Bouffard [69:10]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Wedding Videography:

  "You get one chance. If you miss it—it's all ruined." ([21:07])

• On Creator Consistency:

  "It's just like any other job...You have to be consistent in this space. You want to make money, you have to constantly put content out." ([39:24]–[40:31])

• On Money Mindset:

  "Isn't that up? That's the dream to be at that place...but now you're almost numb to certain numbers." ([46:43])

• On Not Featuring Their Child:

  "You're exploiting your child...They didn't choose that. ...We just wanted to keep her safe." ([36:39])

• On Overcoming Low Points:

  "Lean on your partner. ...I never keep anything inside. ...You eat yourself from the inside out." ([65:08]–[67:42])

• On Their Content Strength:

  "We make the best ads, hands down...because they're just relatable...it's telling a story in a relatable way that people will share." ([48:30])

• On the Industry:

  "It's tough to find people that are the same way in front of the camera as they are behind the camera. The egos in this space are disgusting." ([50:58])

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Important Segments & Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |----------------------------------------------------|---------------| | Jon’s wild job history, including “Dave” at Wells Fargo | 04:40–11:14 | | Held at gunpoint as a vocational counselor | 13:07–15:43 | | Transition to occupational therapy and meeting Alex| 16:29–17:44 | | Breaking into the wedding videography business | 18:17–24:20 | | Wedding horror stories (spitting bride, wardrobe malfunction)| 22:39–24:00| | The leap to content creation and brand deals | 27:17–28:36 | | Digital vs. Traditional media struggle | 30:02–33:20 | | Content process and family privacy boundaries | 33:53–37:26 | | On the grind of content creation | 39:24–40:31 | | First major brand deal and scaling payout | 40:39–41:43 | | Importance of having a better partner | 69:10 | | Surviving dark times, humor as a coping mechanism | 65:08–67:52 |

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The Trading Secret – Jon’s Final Advice

"My trading secret is—find a partner that's better than you. You want to grow, you want to succeed, surround yourself with people better than yourself and acknowledge that. I want to be the dumbest person in the room."
— Jon Bouffard [69:10]

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Why Listen?

This episode goes beyond the typical influencer origin story, offering a rare and honest lens into the emotional, relational, and financial complexities of building a creator business from scratch. With a blend of humor and directness, Jon demystifies viral fame, underscores the value of resilience, partnership, and transparency, and provides a grounded perspective on how the creator economy really works behind the scenes.

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Transcript

[A]

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Published by Capital Client Group, Inc.

[A]

Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets.

[B]

We're off to a hot start.

[A]

Kobe just left. We got the guy who used to be wiping people's butts making 15 bucks an hour. Actually had a gun pulled out at him. We'll talk about that to now one of the biggest content creators on the Internet. Wow. The big question is, how much does he actually bring to the table in his unbelievable quest with Alex online? From making 15 an hour to what I'm gonna say is millions and millions. John Buffard, it is an honored to have you on trading.

[B]

Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. You Keep bringing up 15 an hour. You can keep that down.

[A]

All right, that's probably where we should start, right?

[B]

Sure, go ahead.

[A]

15 bucks an hour, John. I mean, all right, first and foremost, let's start with this. You guys are, you know, I'm going to beat you up a little bit in this interview. I assume I'm going to get beat up back. But you guys are seriously two of the best on the Internet. No one does content like you guys do. It's unbelievable what you do and how you do it. And it's an unbelievable touch of creativity. Right? Real vulnerability and relatability. So congratulations on everything you've accomplished.

[B]

This is so uncomfortable.

[A]

Last time. I'm gonna be nice.

[B]

This is so uncomfortable hearing Jason give me compliments.

[A]

That's the last time you're gonna get it.

[B]

You know what I was thinking first? Thank you so much. Honestly, I couldn't really pay attention because it made me so uncomfortable. But I was also thinking in my head, I'm like, am I gonna start with compliments to Jason or just go right into Destroying him.

[A]

Why don't we start with compliments?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I just went. Felt weird. I'm not used to it.

[B]

I will say, I will say I don't have a lot of friends in this space and you're one of the most genuine people you know. I think that means, that means a lot.

[A]

Cuz this is uncomfortable.

[B]

I don't really like a lot of people.

[A]

Why don't you have a lot of friends in this space?

[B]

I probably need to get out more. I don't know if you've noticed I, I recently had a child. So you even coming here is like the first person coming to. Do you notice we're in my house right now.

[A]

I had to come to you. That's true.

[B]

Well you had to come to me. I had to put the whole podcast together for this guy.

[A]

It's true. That's the first time you've actually ever used these cameras. Because we know Alex does everything in your content creating partnership. That was really nice you though, I appreciate it. I also say before the beautiful Lucy Gray came, we just got to meet her. She's so adorable. You also, you are like an 80 year old man trapped in a 38 year old body. You don't really get out much. That was before, you know, having Lucy. Right? I mean is that fair?

[B]

I wait for you to invite me to things, you know.

[A]

Okay, yeah, so that is fair. But we're going to talk a little bit about this space. I think you do make an interesting point about the, the content side, the creative side, the relationship side and just there's a lot of positivity in this space. There's also some toxicity and negativity in this space. We're going to get to that. Before we do, I am really interested in the first time I heard the story. Honestly it is quite inspiring what you guys have built and how you've built it and what you've done for your life. You used to live in, was it, was it your grandmother or Alex? Alex's grandmothers basement. You worked in there in the basement before that though if you went to your college self and you said to your college self at 38, you're going to walk down the street, you go to a restaurant, you go to airport and majority of people are going to recognize you and you're going to have a very famous personality, an extremely successful career creating videos and doing film in some capacity. What would that college John have said?

[B]

You wouldn't have believed it.

[A]

Was it ever on your trajectory of like yeah, one day this is going Happen for me.

[B]

No, no. I mean, I've had shitty jobs my whole life, literally. I, I never expected any of this to come to fruition. I never even thought that, you know, to even learn how to use a camera, which was all through Alex to then being in front of the camera. No, never in a million years. My family's like healthcare. I assumed at some point I was going to follow suit in that. So complete different direction.

[A]

All right, so let's talk about you. Graduate college, what do you start doing first?

[B]

What I start doing first? Couldn't get a job. 2009 was like. Wasn't that the highest unemployment and the highest amount of college graduates?

[A]

Yeah, it was. Mortgage crisis. It was a disaster. Yeah.

[B]

So I had a business degree.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know if you knew that.

[A]

I did not know that.

[B]

That's right. Surprising business.

[A]

What do you know? What do you know about.

[B]

Nothing. Nothing.

[A]

Do you. We're gonna get into this in a second side quest. Do you run the financials? Yeah. You do. Just scary. That is terrifying.

[B]

Well, she's the creative and I know you're going to get into that.

[A]

We know, yeah.

[B]

So I'm the talent, she's the creator.

[A]

Wow, that's, that's a, that's okay. You're the talent there.

[B]

I just got to tell myself.

[A]

You keep telling yourself that.

[B]

Yeah. Business degree, couldn't find a job. And then friend of my parents was a superintendent school, she got me a job as a teacher's aide.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That was brutal. Lasted six months.

[A]

How much were you making as a teacher's aide?

[B]

Oh, 23, 000 a year. I only lasted six months. Wow. Then I went and worked for Wells Fargo.

[A]

Okay, how long?

[B]

As a financial advisor.

[A]

That's news to me.

[B]

How much mortgages?

[A]

What did you make in that?

[B]

I think that was also like 15 an hour. Fun fact. There was already a john in office, so my name was Dave. Yeah, I was like, hey, this is, this is Dave from Wells Fargo Financial. I heard your FICO scores above whatever I was trying to do like mortgages.

[A]

Okay. Like mortgage sales. Yes.

[B]

And credit cards.

[A]

Selling refinance. You're selling.

[B]

Oh, you know what happened?

[A]

You were slinging credit cards. Yeah.

[B]

You know what happened? That was when Wells Fargo, remember, they got, they got crushed with the credit cards.

[A]

Well, there was credit cards and bank accounts. And so what they were doing is they were selling people more accounts and more credit cards that they needed because they were getting credited for that so they could report it up through their, their, their earnings reports. We have more accounts. We have more credit cards. They got caught doing and got crushed. So you were part of that? You. You are the Wells Fargo fraudulent.

[B]

Was. Not me.

[A]

Okay, so you're Dave working at Wells Fargo?

[B]

Lasted three months.

[A]

Lasted three months. How much were you making there?

[B]

I think it was like $15 an hour.

[A]

Okay, and then. And then where'd you go from there?

[B]

And then I went to my sister's friend, helped me get a job as a vocational counselor.

[A]

Excuse me.

[B]

Are you going to. What the fuck is wrong with you?

[A]

I'm just learning things about you I never knew. Okay, it gets dark. All right, keep it. You tell me more. This explains so much.

[B]

What's your middle name? I never knew your middle. Oh, wait, don't tell, don't tell. I was thinking it was like, Brad or Chad, but if I was, like,

[A]

really on the finance. Brad or Chad?

[B]

If I was really gonna guess. Yeah, I think your middle name would be William.

[A]

William Michael. It's Michael. Oh, okay. Yeah. Wait, it's close. It's Michael.

[B]

Oh, you were like, oh, that's actually a good middle name, too. Michael Tardick.

[A]

All right, so you worked in mental health?

[B]

Kind of, yeah. What I did.

[A]

Sorry, just tell me what you did for work. So what I did,

[B]

I would. I work with. I work with people with the broad

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diagnoses.

[B]

Dude,

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What'd you do? What did you do? What did you do to help? Like, what'd you do?

[B]

What I did.

[A]

What did Dave do?

[B]

Yeah, no, I mean, what I did.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What would happen is we. There would be my clients, and I would try to find them a job.

[A]

Oh, that's great.

[B]

So that whatever it was, these. It would be like dishwasher, cleaning floor, whatever it is, but the employer would get a tax write off.

[A]

Oh, interesting.

[B]

I don't remember what it was.

[A]

This sounds.

[B]

So It's. It's legal. It's a legal job that helps people get jobs.

[A]

Your career checks. Unbelievable. Okay, all right, so you want to work that place where people were dealing with challenges. The company you worked for got tax credits for placing these jobs. All right, from there, where'd your career go? When did you get into occupational therapy? Oh, your resume is amazing. All right, there will be a segment here where I compare his resume to Alex's, and we're going to see how they negotiated for equity. So stay tuned for that, but until we get there, what was your job title at this role? Like, what did you.

[B]

I don't know if I even made it all the way to vocational counselor.

[A]

It was like Vocational counselor.

[B]

Okay, vocational like technician or something? I don't think I fully qualified.

[A]

What do you get paid in this?

[B]

I think like around $15k.

[A]

Unbelievable.

[B]

A lot of lateral move.

[A]

This guy was killing it before Alex came into the picture. All right, so then first off, we

[B]

got to give a huge. A huge disclaimer. We are not making fun of people with any sort of disabilities at all or anything like that. We've just been drinking and Jason can't keep his shit together.

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No, it's.

[B]

Yeah.

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And. Well, I know a lot of these things. It just like curveball, baby. I think the thing is, on a serious note, what's making me laugh so hard is like, when you know John's personality, like I said, an 80 year old and at this point, a 20 year old's body doing all these like random jobs. They. They won't even call you by your name. You have a fake name. You're part of the Wells Fargo fraudulent case. You're working in placement of like a vocational technician. These are just things.

[B]

I.

[A]

As your friend for years, I had no idea. So this is. This is interesting.

[B]

Well, that's where I got the gun pulled on me.

[A]

Seriously.

[B]

As the vacational concert? Yeah.

[A]

No way. What was the story about that?

[B]

I went to pick up this other guy's Jason, bro. We're gonna be here all night. We're gonna be here all night.

[A]

I'm not an actor like you. I can' into character. Okay, tell me the story.

[B]

End scene.

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Yeah. And scene.

[B]

Cut.

[A]

All right. I had to. You good? Yeah.

[B]

I had to pick.

[A]

Had to.

[B]

I had to pick up another counselor's client.

[A]

It's unbelievable. You can't. Did you almost get killed? Did you almost get killed? Let's open that. That'll help.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

All right, I. We didn't take inedible either. All right, Be serious. Come on, we got to be serious. We got to be serious for a second.

[B]

I'm not driving you later.

[A]

Oh, yeah, I'll Uber.

[B]

Or stay, whatever.

[A]

Stay. Okay. All right, serious note. So you get a gun, gets pulled on you. Where were you when the gun.

[B]

This is different. So we gotta.

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It's a mix. We gotta finish this.

[B]

No, this.

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This is.

[B]

This one's different.

[A]

All right, this will be a good laughing break segment. We'll take a pause. Things have never happened in 300 episodes on trading Secrets. Of course, with John B. They happen. Look at this. Take it down.

[B]

The gargoyle.

[A]

Where'd you get that?

[B]

A gift.

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Jesus christ. Okay, cut. That was like the cherry on top I couldn't remember. I'm like, I think it was a gift.

[B]

We could just move on. We could just move on. Honestly, all this stuff happened at work.

[A]

Tell me about what happened. What happened when a gun was pulled out on you?

[B]

I didn't think it was real. What does that have to do with anything? I went to pick up this guy's client and knew nothing about him. I pulled up to the house,

[A]

so.

[B]

You're gonna laugh. So, house number that I was given.

[A]

You're doing this intentionally? What was the house number?

[B]

Sixteen.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But the six fell down.

[A]

Six fell down.

[B]

It was a nine, so I wasn't sure.

[A]

So you were going the wrong house?

[B]

No, no, I was at the right house.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But I was looking. I was looking at the numbers because I couldn't tell, is that a 6 or a 9?

[A]

You're also dyslexic.

[B]

I am.

[A]

You are dyslexic.

[B]

That has nothing to do with this, though, because the number fell down. Irrelevant.

[A]

Wasn't reading.

[B]

Irrelevant to what you're talking about.

[A]

So you're at the front door. Paint the picture.

[B]

Yeah, but he's on the front steps now. This guy's late for work.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I'm going to pick him up. And this guy's in all red and he's doing this. And I'm in a pretty rough area of Richmond, Virginia. I parked the car and he's like, you can't park there. I'm like, no, I just gotta pick somebody up. Are you Billy or what? I'm making a name. Yeah. And he's like, I don't know. No, Billy. And I keep walking towards the door because I'm like, I gotta pick this guy up. And then he just, like. He just. He didn't point out my face. He took his shirt off and pulled his gun out, though. I'm picking up somebody from work. This is a halfway house. There's multiple people there. And so they teach us to not knock on the door. Straight on. So I'm leaning, watching him as he's brandishing his gun.

[A]

Dumb question. Why do they teach you to do that?

[B]

I'm gonna tell you if you. Wait a second. You gotta knock on the frame of the door, so. So somebody blasts through the door in front of it. This is a real job.

[A]

Did you leave the job after this happened?

[B]

No.

[A]

Were you actually scared you're gonna get. I don't know.

[B]

Oh, yeah. It was a rough area.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

But I was more scared that I wasn't getting this guy to work on time. Because I finally. Because you have to find these people jobs.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so it took me six months to find anyone a job, and I finally landed this barbecue place.

[A]

Do you get paid? Will you actually serious, though?

[B]

No. No.

[A]

You compensated?

[B]

No, no, no, no, no. I just get a flat fee.

[A]

This is.

[B]

Don't look too much.

[A]

Yeah, it's like, don't go into this.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

All right. So you. How long after did you quit this job after you got a gun, pulled out?

[B]

A few months. I was talking to my mom. I was like, I gotta do something different. I was lost. I didn't know you're single at this point. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So if you think about this, in this. At this point in your life, money situation, like, what did your money situation look like?

[B]

Nothing.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But I came. My family's great. I. I privileged enough to know I can go and make, you know, mistakes or try new things, and I can always go back and live with my parents.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I'm not going to be like, I have hardship. I didn't have any fucking money. But I knew that. So I was talking to my. My parents about it. My mom was like, what about going into health care? And. And that's kind of when. But I had a business degree. So for I. We. I laid in on occupational therapy because it wasn't as long as physical therapy at the time. It was a master's degree versus doctorate.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And so I had to take pre. Prereq. So I live with my parents for, like.

[A]

She went back to school?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow. Did you. For when you went back to school, did you have to take out student debt?

[B]

Half. My parents helped me with half. Okay, that was nice.

[A]

So you go back to occupational therapy school, you have to get a master's. How long is a master's?

[B]

2 and a half years.

[A]

You come out of that. How much are you making in occupational therapy?

[B]

33 an hour. And then I did that for five years. And I want to say I maxed out at like 45.

[A]

And when you maxed out 45, are you living in New York or you live in Virginia at the time?

[B]

North Carolina.

[A]

North Carolina, that's right. Is that when you met Alex?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So you're swiping away on Tinder?

[B]

Swiping away on Tinder, yeah. But so with. With therapy, how therapy works, you. You have to fight for what you want up front on the initial interview process because it's a 2% increase every year. So I know a guy who's still at the same place. Great guy. And he's been there since we first started, so I don't even know. 2015.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And he maybe is at 45 an hour where I got that from jumping around because I did travel therapy.

[A]

And then at what point did you end up. So you were still working occupation therapy when you met Alex?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then how long were you and Alex together before you started moving into the career? So Alex's background, Right, she's in filmography, videography. She's doing documentaries in Africa. She's doing documentaries on pesticides. She knew her whole life she wanted to be in video and film behind the camera. She then works for other wedding companies. And then you come into the picture. Right. And so she ends up training you while you're still working in occupational therapy. Correct. And so at what point did you say, like, okay, I'm going to actually take a shot at working with her as opposed to working in occupational therapy?

[B]

So we swiped on Tinder. We did it for like, hi, I.

[A]

She's.

[B]

Her timeline's probably better than mine. Nine to ten months, something like that.

[A]

Dating.

[B]

Then we moved to New York. The tri state area. Jersey is like the new. Is the wedding mecca. Like that's where you make money for weddings.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Yeah. Versus like the south.

[A]

What when you're. When you started to work with her. If you shoot a wedding, you're doing video and photography. What do you. What is charging?

[B]

We never did photography.

[A]

You always did video?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. What is video? What are videographers in the tri state area of New York? Go for range wise now.

[B]

I don't even know. We started at three. We ended at like ten.

[A]

Ten grand?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow. And is that. That's like market rate here.

[B]

That's not market rate. We were, we were doing well under Alex's leadership.

[A]

Yeah. What did you contribute to?

[B]

I just little like nudges. What did I contribute? I was the. Just the. The donkey. I was. I just lugged all the around.

[A]

Yeah. No, but actual serious note, you decide to leave occupational therapy.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Was it a financial decision? Was it support decision?

[B]

The company was growing to a point where we either had to hire somebody or I came on full time. But it actually wasn't really. I don't even think it was really that. I think that's when TikTok kind of came into play. We were doing all three podcast content weddings. Oh. And I was still doing therapy.

[A]

So you're still working while doing this?

[B]

Yeah. You know, when we first started, I remember doing an ad for like KFC or something. It was like 10 videos for 10 grand.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But it was, that was more than. Because one wedding would take 50 hours to edit for both of us.

[A]

50 hours.

[B]

Because Alex will do the creative cinematic edit and I would edit the long form wedding. So when you have a wedding, Jason, you have a wedding, what you normally get is this creative edit, the cinematic edit that you show people. It could be like 4 minutes, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, whatever you want. It's more expensive the more you want. But you also usually get the full coverage of the day. That's like clean cut edit.

[A]

It's chopped up, but it's clean. It's a long form, like a YouTube almost, if you will.

[B]

So I do that. The basic edit.

[A]

Okay, gotcha.

[B]

But one film, one wedding would take 50 hours. So the minute we did two weddings at a weekend, we're already behind.

[A]

So you might make $10,000 for the whole video, but then you're putting 50 hours in, but there's no cost, right?

[B]

Well, your overhead's like all of our gear and you have to update that gear. You know, your cameras, your tripods, your, your batteries, all that kind of stuff. But once you're like initial overhead, you're pretty much good.

[A]

So I'm trying to imagine you and Alex at weddings shooting and doing all the stuff and there just had to be cuz weddings are such a high pressure situation. I feel like there has to be at least one horror story from that career.

[B]

Oh yeah. Also I'm naive. I didn't know you get one chance. You get one chance because if you miss it, right.

[A]

It's like it's all ruined. Quick break to tell you about this female founded skincare company called One Skin. I'm actually holding the One Skin Face topical supplement right now. I'm putting it on as I'm actually truly doing this right now. The way I would describe it, it's like when it hits your skin, it's like soft. It's like it's, it's cold, it's soft, it's refreshing and it feels like it's like renewal based, if you will, almost. If you have dry, sensitive skin or certain seasons are bothering your skin, One skin feels like a really good fit. That's from my standpoint. But if you don't want to trust me. They have more than 10,000 five star reviews. People consistently mentioning smoother, firmer, healthier looking skin and how easily the products just fit into daily routines. All of One Skin's products are designed to layer seamlessly or replace multiple steps in your routine, making it just Easier, more efficient at every single age. Skincare gone easy. That is what's needed out here. One skin has also attracted the A list fans like Hollywood icons including Jennifer Aniston and Matthew McConaughey. Born from over a decade of longevity research, OneSkin's OS01 peptide is proven to target the visible signs of aging, helping you unlock your healthiest skin now. And as you age well, for a limited time, you're going to try one skin or give it a shot. 15 off. If you do using code trading secrets at Oneskin Co. Backslash trading secrets. That's 15 off. OneSkin Co with code trading secrets. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support the show by saying, we

[B]

sent you first look, first kiss, first dance. Walking down the aisle. I mean, the horse store we had was just like some crazy brides. We had one bride. We watched. I watched this chick. It was. Let me paint a picture. Sun's coming down, light leaks. They're in front of the sun. Perfect shot, slow mo. Alex is pushing in the camera. I got another angle. They go to do their kiss. Some words were exchanged because it's kind of in the distance. I don't know, but we're zoomed in. I see this chick go in Haugi, slow moving, hits the guy in the face.

[A]

Shut up.

[B]

It was wild. They only lasted like three to six months later that night.

[A]

Wait, hang on, hang on. Unintentionally, right?

[B]

No, unintentionally hocking you wind back and spit in their face. How is that unintentional?

[A]

The bride spit in the GR face.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

At what point in the wedding was this?

[B]

At the. Not at the end, but during, like the party. All the formalities are over. It's like a golden hour. Like, kiss at the end. A nice shot. It's just be a really nice, cinematic, romantic, romantic shot.

[A]

Do you still have that video?

[B]

Yeah. Well, we'll show you.

[A]

I see it.

[B]

I also later that night, she was like dancing and her tits fell out. It was fucking wow, actually. Oh, yeah, it was crazy. She was a mess.

[A]

Holy smokes. Okay, before we go into your next career, Stop. Now you got me curious. Did you guys were you able to actually get a vision for, like making bets if the bride and groom would last? Based on how the experience that day

[B]

was, I don't think we had the energy to even want. We were. Dad. We're like, this is exhaust. We're just trying to get through the day.

[A]

Okay, Think about your video career as a wedding videography. Group in that time for when you weren't doing content, what do you think? Like, the most annually you made doing that was like, at your highest point.

[B]

I think the first year we did 15 weddings. I think we. At the max. We did like 33 weddings. But then, like, that's when we gave like 10 away because that's when we started doing content. At the end, when I finally convinced Alex to, like, we got. We can't do all this. Either we do content or we not. The 10 was like our. We had three packages. The 10 grand was like our max package. I don't know. I. I would say, like, I don't know if my math is wrong. I don't know. 182 something. Nothing crazy.

[A]

Yeah, but. And then at what point are you living at Alex's grandma's basement? And why. And were you paying Alex's grandma to live there?

[B]

No, that's why we over owe her everything. We were in Raleigh, dated for nine months, and then decided to make the company make a go at it. Moved to New York. Wild on my part. Like, move. I don't know soul. I moved on Christmas day, got there at midnight. They're having like a party at grandma's house.

[A]

You moved in with Alex on Christmas day? Yeah.

[B]

And my last day of work was like the day before. And my mom's like, when you just go now I'm like, all right.

[A]

Did you know this, like, day one when you met her? Did you know about getting married?

[B]

Now, that wasn't even a thought. Because when you think of wedding films.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You think uncle over the shoulder. I mean, back in the day, right? So when she showed me one of her wedding films, it's the first time I've ever seen one, I was like, holy, this is a movie. Like, she was amazing. And I. I was just, like, drawn to her talent.

[A]

I mean, that's awesome.

[B]

Besides, like, how much I love her and all that. But I'm like, why you?

[A]

Like, you're special. Like, there's something so special about you.

[B]

Yeah. I know people. This is off topic, but, like, I know people who don't want to be with people that are better than them. And it is the most wild concept to me. Like, don't you want to be with somebody that's going to make you grow and do better? And I saw spending time with Alex was so motivating and made me want to be a better person and do more than I was doing. Also a shot from being an ot. The burnout rate of an OT is Like five years is like, girl, I'll do whatever it literally takes.

[A]

I've wiped asses, I've gotten guns pulled out on me. I'm part of the Wells Fargo fraudulent cases.

[B]

Dave, enough.

[A]

I mean, you did it all, but allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly. All right, so then your full time content creating, you guys move out of the. You don't do any type of videography in any capacity.

[B]

Never touch the camera.

[A]

Okay. Because I did hear on the morning toast that you guys still have that LLC set up though.

[B]

Well, our company is.

[A]

Yeah, you just took that Escort now. Now it's what you're doing today.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. How long did you start creating content before you started to realize this is going to be larger and much larger than any type of videography company?

[B]

Was it Covid, was it 2021? I think when we started making more than weddings and did.

[A]

And how long did that take from day one of creating content until that moment can remember? Like no to guess.

[B]

Two years or something like that.

[A]

I'm just hammering it out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now at that time, especially in TikTok was launching creator funds. There was more being paid off from creator funds than actual ads. So do you remember any like, like we had Katie Feeney on.

[B]

We didn't make from that.

[A]

Really? She made a million bucks in five weeks from Snapchat.

[B]

We were, we're slow burning. And I think that's also a benefit to us too. It's like you're not like an overnight success. We've just steadily grown through the years, so we're consistent in that. But it was never like overnight. I mean, we were grinding. No, I think we got some money from deals. That's when we met our Camille, our managers is when like we saw. We're like, oh, you can make good money. And once I noticed like a deal was just as much as a wedding, I'm like, okay, I could do this in like one day versus 50 hours. It's a no brainer. I think a lot of people get stuck on health insurance and stepping outside of their comfort zone because you don't know content. You don't know are you going to make it? Are you not? But like, when we start seeing consistency, that's when we made the transition.

[A]

Okay, and so how long did you do content in New York before you guys? Because you just talked about being surrounded by people that are better than you and like learning from all these people. And so you guys make the move from la. Why'd you make the move and how long were you in content creation before you made the move.

[B]

We moved like three different times before then. Why did we make the move to la? We were doing decent, but I think we always were like, is moving to LA going to be the, the next step? And we didn't have kids then and we were like, why we should give this a chance now? Why do we move there when I honestly don't remember. We were in Richmond for like a year and we were like, it, let's just give this a shot. Sold the house or townhouse and then moved to la. What was the question?

[A]

So you guys do.

[B]

What was the rest of the question?

[A]

The question was, how long in content were you before you end up going to LA to try and take that next step?

[B]

Two, three years?

[A]

Two, three years? That next step for you has changed a lot. But you guys, if everyone hasn't seen John Alex's content, it's all script based and it's all, it's all technically, technically acting as that role. But you're being yourself. It's relatable. It's couples content, it's marriage content. It was dink content and now it's mom and dad content. And one of the things about that though is your next step was traditional. It was right. Like you guys were looking to get, we thought traditional. Yeah. And what has happened since then did. Have you been in any shows? Are you still chasing traditional? Like, what does that career navigation look like?

[B]

I think we always like to try new things and flex new muscles. So it would never be about money because I would just want to do it, just do it for fun. Like. So we, we were on one episode of Lopez versus Lopez, you know, really cool opportunity. I had like two lines. We were there a week though. I sat in a trailer for a week for two lines. And that's what's tough. I was talking to our team that we have. They're like, do whatever you want. But it always comes back to digital because, like, I own everything. I. My own IPO and all of that brands come to us. We're traditional. There's just like so many cooks in the kitchen when it comes to that. But I, I wouldn't mind doing, doing more traditional work. I did that. I did a progressive commercial. I thought that was really cool. Yeah.

[A]

So we've had a lot of reality stars on scripted scars. Creators come on saying that they want to go to traditional, but it's extremely hard to make that gap. We've had a lot of actors on come on saying what's their why, the why to make that gap yes. The why to make that gap is that they are known in the public for literally playing themselves, and that is their brand as a creator and someone in unscripted. And the idea that you have to go from the whole world knowing you playing yourself to the whole world going to see you in the light of an actual true character is a really hard transition. Also, some of the why of why Traditional wouldn't go to digital creator or unscripted is because the traditional said it's like, four steps back. It's tough to get casted again. What's interesting, though, from my standpoint is the shift is so material and where money is being deployed that now people in Traditional are trying to get into. They want the community have. They want the creative that you have. But my understanding is people that were in this space trying to go into traditional were told, one, good luck, and two, if you come here, you got to stay here and kind of leave that behind. Like, did you ever battle any of that as you tried to move into Traditional?

[B]

Well, first, my why. My. Me asking you the why was why did they want to go to Traditional? What was their reasoning?

[A]

I think more ego. Right? I think it sounds better for identity.

[B]

I get that. You know, I just think traditional looks at digital like we're beneath them. And, like, I do think digital is the future, man.

[A]

There's.

[B]

There's no way of stopping it. But I respect traditional. I would love to do traditional. Your question about did I see any friction or. When SAG had their strike? That was a big moment. Where was it? Fran Drescher, who was. Whoever was the. I want to say it was her. The nanny. She said, I. I want to say it's her. Don't want me or whatever. The. She said something like, if you want to get into traditional, like, talking to digital talent, you're not allowed to work with any Traditional, like, for anything during our sag.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

During our sack strike. And so we weren't allowed to, like, work with any brands at all during that time. Yeah. What you're saying friction, right? Like, was there something with. Between, like, traditionally trying to cross over to, like. I think that was. That was the main thing where, like, I had to not take deals that were offered to me because we want to respect SAG at the time because we're like, oh, we're going to join that in the future, but in the

[A]

next five years, you're gonna be an actor?

[B]

Well, you know, maybe. Yeah.

[A]

Are you an actor right now?

[B]

No, I'll never. I won't call myself an actor.

[A]

What do you call yourself?

[B]

My. My wife's muse.

[A]

Okay, let's talk about that. On a serious note, though, week to week, you guys have some of the best content on the Internet. It's well produced, it's well thought out, it's well scripted, it's well. It's well edited. Pre. Pre production to post production. It's some of the best on the Internet. Talk to me a week in the life looks like. Like, when are you guys filming? When are you scripting? How far in planning? Tell us about that.

[B]

Alex is all. I think I came up with 2, 3 ideas in the years we've been doing this.

[A]

So Alex is like, the creative genius. Yeah, Alex is the creator.

[B]

And is it.

[A]

Is it like every day she's just going and going and putting it out? And when you do, you guys have sessions where you sit down and just chop it up?

[B]

No, we have a editor, Sean, and they. Some. They'll talk back and forth, but even before him, she was doing this. And we'll. She'll come up with concepts, and then we'll. It's so different now because we're navigating our. Our daughter, Lucy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, like, we have her mom helping out. We'll. Alex will come with, like, scripts the night before we'll shoot it, and then she'll send. She'll send some of, like, the regular edits to our editor, and then, like, the more complex ones she'll do. Or, like, the ads that we shoot. We get to a point, like, we used to grind. We used to do post every day, you know, every day. And now it's like, we're just trying to, like, get three, like, really good scripts out. Like a week.

[A]

Three, four. So she'll write the scripts?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You'll sit down, you guys review the scripts. You'll do table reads.

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay. I mean, it feels like. Okay.

[B]

I do. Honestly, I am like a pair. I'll just do exactly what you tell me to do. I'm not gonna, like, analyze something like, what do you want? Do you want me to be happy? Do you want me to be sad? Tell me the emotion you want, and I'll do it to the best of my abilities.

[A]

You film it, and then she'll do all the editing.

[B]

She will. Or our editor will do it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It depends.

[A]

If someone had to ask you, John,

[B]

you know, Jason, I have some questions for you.

[A]

What is it that you. You bring to this dynamic, too? Well, how would you summarize?

[B]

You know, without me, there would not be any content.

[A]

Okay. All right, so you're the talent. All right. On a serious note, I want to talk to you about. You guys have made a very active choice to not put Lucy in your content.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

You played the baby. Now, in California law, there's something called the Coogan Law. This is where California recently just expanded to cover kids that are appearing in social media content. YouTube, tick tock, instagra. And the last. The last I read was at least 15% of the child's gross earnings must be put in a trust. It's called the Coogan account until they are 18 if they appear in any type of monetized online content. This is a. This is a law that was just put in place in California. It does not exist in other states. As a result of that, those entertainers that are doing social media only on digital are leaving California. So this is a big topic. Finance regulation in the space that connects to kind of this podcast. When you guys make the decision to not have Lucy in the content, does it have connection into Coogan Law? Or, like, tell me a little bit about what the thought process is there.

[B]

Oh, I didn't. I didn't think that would affect her at all. She's not. No one knows what she looks like. It shouldn't affect her.

[A]

It won't. It won't.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because she's not in your content.

[B]

That's not why we did it.

[A]

That's what I was asking was children.

[B]

If. First off, I'm so anti. Putting your kids online. I mean, the horrible that's out there. Do you know Tim Tebow?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you see the stuff he was posting about, like within the last six months, the amount of child predators looking up, like children porn. I mean, this absurd. It's crazy. It's scary. And like, like, you should. We should be protecting our children. And then the. The families. I mean, I'll die on this hill. The families that are moving out of California because they don't want to pay the money to their kids. That is crazy. That's crazy. So it's just greed. That's such greed. You're exploiting your child. Your child's not even asking to be online. And they don't have the decision. They don't have a decision.

[A]

Or the mental. Where.

[B]

What are they going to be like when they're older? Like when people know who they are. Like, they didn't choose that.

[A]

True.

[B]

Whatever. I mean, that's how I feel. No, that. Us not putting her in the content. I didn't. It wasn't about the law. We Just wanted to keep her safe.

[A]

Yeah, I think that's, I'm glad I want to talk about that because there's a financial aspect and clearly to you it's a, it's a moral safety and it makes so much sense. I think bringing attention to that in this space is really important because we're seeing it having California. But as the digital space continues to increase, you're going to see things like this happen everywhere. All different types of regulation and the business is changing. Everyone's plate is getting more and more full and that's why you might need some help. Well, hiring help shouldn't be such a headache or a drain on your budget. Upwork makes it easy to hire specialized freelancers quickly so you can get the expertise you need and you need it now without weeks of recruiting or a full time hire. We actually had to put some media decks together and really needed help with some different areas of marketing within the agency that we just didn't have the bandwidth for. So we went to upwork and found an unbelievable freelancer to do it than to do it affordably. Upwork is the one stop platform to find, hire and pay expert freelancers across web and software development, data and analytics, marketing like we did, business operations and more. Upwork will help you grow your business by giving you fast access to specialized talent across 125 plus categories so you can fill all the skill gaps you need, launch projects faster and scale and support up or down without committing to that full time headache of more headcount. So here's what you gotta do. Just visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free. That is Upwork.com to get connected with top talent or ready to help your business grow. Just go to upwork.com that's upwork.com what would you say is one thing most people listening this podcast would not know about the space that you're operating in that you feel comfortable sharing.

[B]

It's exhausting. I don't know, I like it's tiring doing the same thing every fucking day. It's just like any other job. You know, we've been doing it for years so like put a face on every day whether you're fighting with your partner or you know, you just don't want to be creative or like show emotion on screen. I mean, I'm not gonna say it's like every other job, you know, it's our job's really easy and we're very fortunate.

[A]

But do you think there's any thing out there Anyone that misunderstands you or what you guys do on a day to day basis or do you think it's all, do you think it's all pretty consistent, this career?

[B]

I think people, when, when I hear people say like get a real job, like I get, it's look, you know, this is, I'm not a healthcare worker anymore. I'm not a police officer, a teacher, like these very important jobs. But like if you're not in it, you don't understand like how consuming. Like you have to be consistent in this space. You have to, you want to stay relevant, you want to, this is a job. So you want to make money. You have to constantly put content out. Like your vacation. You're still putting content out. It doesn't matter.

[A]

It's filming. What is. What was one time, one payday that you remember, you'll always remember, and it changed your life?

[B]

My first one, what was it? Shark. Okay, five grand.

[A]

And what, why, why was that it?

[B]

It was, I don't remember how many videos it was, but it was like one of our first deals with our managers. And because based off of the amount of work we had with weddings, I'm like, we can shoot this one ad or whatever, a couple videos and it's half the time of a wedding film. And that's really where like the seed was planted in our head about can we, let's make a go at this.

[A]

Do you have a goal as far as when it comes to earnings in it in an annual year, earnings in one deal that you want to one day, like we want to hit this number.

[B]

I would love to make a seven figure deal. That'd be cool.

[A]

Do you have Jim Carrey? I think the number was 10 million. He wrote a check out to himself for $10 million when he went to Hollywood and he's like, in five years I'm gonna hit it. And it was a year, four and a half. Dumb and dumber hit and he hit the 10 million mark.

[B]

No.

[A]

Do you. If you had a check you had to put in your wallet right now, what number would you write?

[B]

37 million.

[A]

37 million.

[B]

And how long? 10 years.

[A]

10 years, right?

[B]

No, I'll be dead 5 years. Why will you be dead? Like you said, 80 year old man, a 20 year old body.

[A]

You know, we do talk often about our back issues, cholesterol issues, all those moving parts, but she didn't notice.

[B]

Know this. The rhino from Ace Ventura is up for sale for three grand.

[A]

Would you buy it?

[B]

I don't have enough space.

[A]

Would you You're a gamer, huh? That's another thing you might know about John, do you. Do you ever stream or do any like that stuff? No.

[B]

No, because I'm not good. Maybe that's why. Just like my cooking. Yeah. Enough about me, Jason. This show's called Trading Places.

[A]

Trading Places.

[B]

Jason, what's your FICO score?

[A]

My FICO score is 812.

[B]

John, what's your Social Security?

[A]

You're sick. You are sick.

[B]

Can I get your company ein number?

[A]

Five years from now, what are you gonna be doing? What's the dream?

[B]

That's a good question. Hopefully acting in one of my wife's movies. That'd be cool.

[A]

Is that a direction she wants to go?

[B]

Oh, yeah, she should be a director.

[A]

She started on that. Yeah.

[B]

I mean we, we had two short films and they got into film festivals, which is crazy to. To be able to do that off the rip two seasons in a row. She's working on like a full length feature film now. I don't know when she's gonna finish that, but. Yeah, we'll see.

[A]

You write the film, you shoot the film, you have to pay for all that. Do you get any type of sponsorship for it or is it automatically a deficit?

[B]

We'll probably just do it out of.

[A]

I don't.

[B]

We'd have to look at like budget wise, like what. How much we think it would actually you've done.

[A]

I'm saying. Oh, no, no, no. Not a pocket for those.

[B]

No Airbnb, because we have all the equipment from filming weddings. So we shot a lot of the. Wow. We were fine. It's a lot of work. I mean, we'll definitely hire. So for if we want to shoot another short film, which we're talking about, we. We have some. We know who we want to hire for lighting. We know who we want to hire for production and shooting. Like, we'll do it differently this time because it was too much, just the two of us.

[A]

Okay. Going back to Shark, Shark was the paycheck. You'll never forget that your members started to change the trajectory of what you're going to do. What would you say is your grammy, as far as a brand deal you've done? You look and you're like, okay, that's the Grammy.

[B]

Well, what do you want to look at? Do you want to look at like how much money you made off a brand deal or like who you like?

[A]

For me, it was capital one. It was close to a hat. Well, it was close to a half a million bucks, so that's one and Then two, it was that I couldn't get a sponsor or anyone to help me support the book. And not only what did it pay me that well, but they put a full production team behind a 8. 8 book tour, 8 city book tour. And so for me, it was like that was something I always dreamed of, but I couldn't do it out of pocket or justify the time and effort of money. So they kind of made a dream come true that I never expected to come true. And I got a life changing amount of money to like help with things. So that's great.

[B]

Working with like a brand that like supports you and like wants your creative to shine. And I see that push that's happening now. It's like I think brands are starting to realize you have to go off of like, what is this creator's skill? Why are people following them? Let them shoot the ad or whatever we want from their direction. Because, like, that's what's going to sell. It's not like how they want it.

[A]

Exactly. All right. So when you think about the best deal you ever did, it doesn't even have to be the biggest dollar amount, but a deal that you won't forget. We're not going to name the brand because I know you got to sign certain contracts and I want to bring brands, but I want to hear like a deal. You'll always remember the dollar amount and the deliverables don't say the brand, but

[B]

the reason why I wanted to work with them, the dollar amount deliverables, I'm not fucking. I made off of this guy so invasive. It was a good amount of money, you fuck. And the reason I like working with them, it was because they let us do it how we want to do it because we know it would perform well. If I'm gonna.

[A]

How much was.

[B]

Was six figures and it was a good amount.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I never hit the seven figure mark.

[A]

What's the most you've ever been paid out of deal?

[B]

I'm not this fucking guy. Hey, I got questions for you. How about this? I actually got a. I actually do have a good question for you.

[A]

There you go, guys.

[B]

Where are we going for your bachelor party?

[A]

Wow, thanks, John. Where do you want to go? Where should we go?

[B]

Oh, I. Well, Lucy, I only got a certain amount of time, so let me know.

[A]

Just like two.

[B]

Two days.

[A]

Two days. Two days.

[B]

No, I got a real question and

[A]

then I'm gonna wrap with 1. 1. One area I want to talk about we haven't talked about.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Since you won't tell me Any we. Okay, how about this? Literally, can you give me $1amount of something?

[B]

What's like I can tell you when's

[A]

the first year you made a million bucks?

[B]

Give me something I can tell you like average. Average.

[A]

Worst training secrets guest ever. God, I pissed myself. I cried myself.

[B]

I'm always scared Alex gonna yell at me. I don't know. We. Most of our deals are I'm 100 or more. Like, I, you know, we're not gonna.

[A]

You've earned it.

[B]

Yeah. I mean it's been years.

[A]

So then when I asked the number, I don't ask the number to just put the number. What is the number one contributing factor to the fact that you guys wouldn't look at a deal?

[B]

Time. Time. We have Lucy where we just have so much going on. So to make it worth it. And isn't that sad though? Like, I remember the shark deal that I made and we were through the roof and now you're almost numb to certain numbers and that's what a wild concept that is. And like, you have to stay like, I'm so appreciative. And so I'm like, where we're at in life, I'm like, dude, thank God. But isn't that up? That's such a weird like mind concept.

[A]

But it's a good. It's a good. That's the dream to be at that place, right? It is. Here's what I want. This is. This is a serious question because I think you could really help people. I'm serious. There are people out there right now that are trying to brand themselves in their company. They're trying to brand their own social. They're trying to brand their company social, whatever it is. You've gotten to a point though where brands want to work with you at your goal is to get paid seven figure from a brand. That's literally the dream for probably majority of kids right now. Like, you know, they want to be creators and influence. What is the reason? If you had to attribute one thing to why you've been this successful, to why people are willing to pay you this amount of money for what you do. What is the one branding thing that you guys have done to differentiate yourself?

[B]

It's not one, but it's consistency, relatability, that's it. Why are you making content? Are you making content for yourself? You got. You need to make content for your followers. Why are they following you? Like, I'm not going to be doing shirtless photos of myself like Jason does for my own vanity with my slicked Back hair I'm doing. I'm making videos where I'm wearing a bow, acting like a child. That's what I'm doing, you know, so there's that. I'm glad I'm winning at the end.

[A]

Coming in hot with a couple punches.

[B]

Yeah. Relatability, I think, is the main thing. Like, are people going to share it? Because I'm gonna. I think we make the best ads, hands down, 100. Like, the best ads that you. Because they're just relatable. You don't know it's an ad until the end when we have to put the hashtag ad or whatever. You know, it's like it's telling a story in a relatable way that people will share because it's stuff that happens in their daily life.

[A]

I know that Alex does do everything she scripts, that she writes it. But what this. I'm actually being and serious when she comes up with the concept. And sometimes you will give feedback or insight. Where do you think it is that she's like, damn, John, that was good. What is it?

[B]

Is it.

[A]

Is it the dark humor? Is it the twist? Is it the clothes? Like, what is John? What is John's thing?

[B]

Your closing has to be huge. I honestly, most of the stuff she writes out, I think is great. I'll just switch some words up because it's coming from my voice. I'm like, this doesn't sound right. Like, I have to act it out first and be like, can we. We got to reword this. But you have to get to the point and get to the point quick. So sometimes if the script's too long, I'll try to, like, let's cut this down a bit.

[A]

But when you work with other creators, you network with other creators, you network with anyone. Not even creators, just people that literally just put content out on a public forum. What is the number one thing that irritates you about, like, this space and those people?

[B]

I just think how fake people are. I think I've seen that a lot. La specifically, again, I said, you're my only friend.

[A]

Yeah. You know, it's tough to know, like, a serious note. It's very tough.

[B]

I'm also old enough. That's the issue. You're old as too, since you don't admit it. But, like, we're old heads. Give me your guy.

[A]

I don't dye my hair, though. You usually have gray.

[B]

You just get spray tans. But we. This guy goes, I was just in Buffalo. I'm like, was there a lot of fucking sun There, but blow me. Yeah. I mean, again, I think the difference is, like, and this is amazing, all the new generations coming in and doing stuff like, I don't relate to. I'm just. We are in the older end of,

[A]

like, I don't think there's anything to do with it. It has anything to do with that.

[B]

You don't know. You're telling me, like, what I don't like about, like, yeah, hang out with younger people.

[A]

But I think not having friends in this space, it's tough to find loyal people. It's tough to find people that are the same way that they are in front of the camera as they are behind the camera.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

It's tough to find people that can put ten toes down and. And just to have a healthy conversation. The egos in this space are disgusting. It's disgusting.

[B]

You go to way more stuff than I do. That's what I'm saying. So, like, you're. What's your thoughts?

[A]

Can. I mean, seriously, like, this space, it's very hard to find good people. It's mostly Alex. But you and Alex are two of the biggest. The best humans that I've ever met in the space. Like, through all your success. And it just keeps going up and up and up, financially and professionally and personally, which is beautiful. You guys are just the best of the best. And it is so hard to find that. It is so hard to find that in that space.

[B]

100.

[A]

And I mean that. One thing I wanted to ask you. There's something called the four burner theory. Have you heard about this?

[B]

No, of course you haven't.

[A]

Did you read?

[B]

No.

[A]

Did you shit your pants?

[B]

Sometimes.

[A]

How often a year would you say you shave?

[B]

How many times I throw underwear out, like once a year?

[A]

Once. I was thinking more than that. Four burner theory. There's your health.

[B]

Oh, wait, yes, I have. And you got to shut one of them off. Which one you shut off? Yeah, that's right.

[A]

Family.

[B]

What are the.

[A]

Friends.

[B]

Okay, health, work.

[A]

Family, friends, health, work. Which of those is shut off the most right now?

[B]

Oh, right now. I was like, if I had to shut one off forever.

[A]

No, I'm just saying, like, which one

[B]

in your life, family, friends, health, work. Which one would I shut off?

[A]

No, which one is shut off? You know what I think people could take away in this episode?

[B]

I don't care.

[A]

You're a great guy, but thank God for Alex.

[B]

Thank God. Oh, I wouldn't last long. I already told Alex, if we get divorced, I'm like, give me A one bedroom apartment somewhere warm.

[A]

I hope she got a prenup.

[B]

No. I have some questions.

[A]

She didn't make you sign one?

[B]

All right, I'm gonna roll. I'm gonna roll into that once I finish your question. What's probably gone right now? Probably friends because we moved from LA to New York. You know, we're just in the trenches right now. Lucy's almost six months old, so not trying to navigate that. So socially we're kind of like, not doing a whole lot.

[A]

Do you think you'll stay in New York?

[B]

I don't know, actually. So what we're thinking about is maybe. Maybe trying to get, like, something in the city to. To be able to go, because there's a lot of events, a lot of things going on, and. And we just want to be around better, like, people better than us that are creative, that we can like, just, you know, city.

[A]

Long Island.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This episode of Trading Secrets is brought to you by booking dot com. I've got to say, if you're looking to grow your vacation rental business, this

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Oh, oh, oh. I was like this guy. Wait, why? You just looked like such a. I'm like a. I look like a. Slicking his hair back like you're Fabio. I thought you'd hate me.

[A]

Yeah, I remember. You're pissed that you liked me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You got me. Like, really? He looked in the mirror like. Like it be better Job.

[B]

I know, it's like, good. Yeah, I defend you. Okay, so you were talking about prenup.

[A]

Did I win you in the divorce?

[B]

No comment. So I saw your episode. I don't watch any of your podcast episodes, but I saw one like, Blake was on your buddy Blake. And I like. But I got to meet him though. He's him and his wife.

[A]

It's great.

[B]

This was a while ago and I was probably drinking when I wrote this, but the question I had was talking about, like, like you're talking to Blake and his wife and I'm start. I was starting to think, how hard is it in this space, what you're doing, what we're all doing. Like, I met Alex before any of this. I met Alex. Neither one of us were successful.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think Alex is making 30 grand a year. And that's when I was a therapist, you know, so we started together and it, I mean, I'm just glad because it makes it everything so much easier for us. Like, yeah, we don't have a prenup. We have not. Like everything is 50, 50 and we're a team. And I don't know what that's like in the space of when you're meeting someone when you're already successful or like already doing what we're doing.

[A]

So what. What I understand the topic. The question is what. How hard is it? Or is it hard?

[B]

Like, what are you. What's your. What's your suggestion if you're going to get married? If you're, you know, I think you're asking me.

[A]

I think what you're asking me is. I think what you're asking me is hard hitting questions. But I still don't understand the question. You haven't asked.

[B]

Are you gonna get married? If you get married, like, what's financially looking. Like, what's your suggestion? You're the financial guru.

[A]

Well, if. Is what? Okay.

[B]

If you're getting married.

[A]

If I'm getting married, we're gonna do a bachelor party.

[B]

And.

[A]

And if I'm getting married. Well, I'm not with someone that's like really in this space right now. Right. So I don't know really what your questions. I have.

[B]

I guess it doesn't have to be.

[A]

But you are saying it's hard.

[B]

You're already, you're already at like a place in like, you're at the. Yeah, I wouldn't say you're at the pinnacle, buddy, but you know, you're like up there, I guess, you know, so, like, I think I would be guarded. Oh, yeah.

[A]

Guarded. Okay. Yeah. I'm guard. Are you kidding me? After the things I've been through, I am beyond guarded. You know, with Catherine and I, we. I met. The first time I ever met her was when I went to go rescue Teddy, and we were friends for a while, and then, like, romantically got involved, and until I could, like, get myself to be, like, lock into a relationship, she would be like, how do you have this many walls up? She's like, I feel like I just want you to see me.

[B]

Did she watch the Bachelor?

[A]

Just like, well, I see you for you, but I've also seen other people for them, and that didn't work out. And my guard is so high from that. I mean, it's. It's the highest. But I think one of the questions too is like, if you're in this space and you're with another person who is a creator.

[B]

Yeah. Let's leave it at that.

[A]

Let's leave it at that is important too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Okay. From podcaster to podcaster, do you enjoy it? Do you find it worth it? What's your motivation?

[A]

Well, you took my questions. I was going to ask you about what you're doing and how I'm doing it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Why do I do the podcast? I do it for branding. I do it because we're in the business category, the entrepreneur category. As far as your rates go in those spaces, rates are always going to be higher. If I look at my past five largest deals, it's going to be insurance deal, it's going to be a bank deal, it's going to be an investment company, it's going to be a credit card company. Those are the highest premiums. So this is also helps brand. I also enjoy it. It allows us to also build relationships to possibly get people to work with our agency. But as far as the monetization from it, it's harder, Right. Because I've done the calculations of cpm, right? You get paid per thousand views. Usually it's around 30, 35, 40 bucks per thousand. And unless you're pumping out podcasts every single day or you have an insane amount of downloads, it's hard to justify because digital pays way more. The premiums are way higher. So it's a lot of work. I love it, though. What do you think?

[B]

That's what's so tough, motivation wise? It's so hard when you skip a step. Like when you, you know, started doing digital, making brand deals, and then you go to do a podcast, I'm like, I see the. The money from brand deals. Versus a podcast. That podcast takes up, like, we did, like, a pie chart at the end of the year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, it was a sliver of our income.

[A]

Podcast revenue.

[B]

Yes. And that's. Oh. Oh, I don't even know.

[A]

Do you make less than 300, 000?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

[A]

And so as a result of that, is that why you're gonna get rid of it? Are you gonna keep with it? You might redo it?

[B]

No, no. We. We love the podcast, and we'll eventually come back to. It's just the time of life we're in right now. It was too much with Lucy.

[A]

Would you ever do anything unscripted? Like, I feel like Alex could be called for. Maybe Real Housewife, maybe.

[B]

I don't think she wants me to, like, embarrass her. She doesn't want to, like, would you ever do unscripted? Yeah, but you're gonna embarrass me.

[A]

Why would you embarrass her?

[B]

I don't know. Say something stupid. Do something stupid.

[A]

What's one show you'd be on?

[B]

Oh, my God, you know what the show I used to watch, Full Metal Jousting.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

You don't even know what that is.

[A]

No.

[B]

If you had to guess what it

[A]

was, it's when you're doing the horses and you're. You joust each other, but real.

[B]

Yeah. You're not.

[A]

That's what you want to do?

[B]

No, I thought it was cool.

[A]

Are you athletic?

[B]

I'm way more athletic than you.

[A]

You are.

[B]

Would you. What do you. What do you do?

[A]

What. What's. What did you play growing up? Wrestled? Yeah. Did you play volleyball?

[B]

I love. I know. I would destroy you.

[A]

That's your game.

[B]

Volleyball, soccer.

[A]

What are your passions?

[B]

Gaming. My family. Volleyball.

[A]

If you had to give a lecture to a Harvard business.

[B]

Don't.

[A]

If you had to give a lecture, what would your lecture topic be?

[B]

Make sure you're going into what. Why are you. What are you going. Why are you going to. What you're going into.

[A]

That's insane. All right, last topic, and then we can wrap up. Unless you have any more questions. Love and money. It's a big part of life. How do you and Alex manage finances? Do you have any hard rules? Do you have any certain communication styles with. What does happen? I hope she negotiated, like, 95% equity based on what she brings to the table. Like, do you have a 50? 50 split? How's it work?

[B]

You know, we talk about, like, how easy our relationship is. It's because we're very similar. We're not like, yeah, I got, like, a nice car, but we're not, like, material. Like, I don't. But we don't buy designer shoes. Yeah, we don't buy stuff. You know, if you're to rob my house, what are you gonna add? My TV on the wall I don't have in here. That's nice. You know, we. We're not frugal, though, but we like to spend stuff on trips and whatnot. So no one's, like, outspending the other. What was the question?

[A]

Do you have adhd? Maybe. Okay.

[B]

You know, this is my first podcast by myself.

[A]

I could tell by myself.

[B]

I usually just let Alex talk.

[A]

I'm like, huh, do you have to go back to the question? Do you have. Do you and Alex have any hard. No rules as far as, like, spending, investing, managing the money? Talking about money? Do you guys connect about it annually, biannually? Like, do you know where you stand financially if someone do it? Like, any type of love and money, things that have worked or don't work?

[B]

No, we just have split roles. Right. She's the creative. She does, you know, everything on then that. You see, I do the finances, and that's not even by choice. I don't even really want to do it. But she knows nothing about it. She has no interest in it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So. And I try to do whatever to take off her plate so she could stay creative. Right. So no, we. That's never been an issue for us ever. But we always had those conversations before we even got married. Do you want kids financially, where you're at, you know, those are like, the big topics you need to have beforehand. And we were on the same page.

[A]

Have you ever had a big financial mishap or like some type of fraud that happened or anything like that?

[B]

Yeah, you have? Well, when I got. Who was it? Comcast?

[A]

What happened?

[B]

Was it Comcast, you say?

[A]

Yeah, like I'm supposed to know.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I. I always get scammed.

[A]

Scam.

[B]

Oh, how'd you get scammed? My credit score. I was buying the. When I went to buy this house.

[A]

Here we go.

[B]

I'm gonna buy this fucking house. And they check my credit.

[A]

How much is the house you buy?

[B]

You owed seven. You seven grand a Verizon. And you. They got like 10 cell phones that you bought. I'm like, there's two of us. Why would I buy 10 cell phones? Somebody got my information and I got hacked and my credit score got fucked. And then I went to fix it, and I got. I thought then someone. McAfee called me, and it wasn't McAfee, it was another guy. I got scammed twice within a week.

[A]

Did you give them credit card information?

[B]

I gave them my information. So when you talk about roles. Yeah. I'm no longer allowed to answer my phone.

[A]

Like, when you wake up, what do you do?

[B]

I throw my phone out the window.

[A]

All right. All right.

[B]

Are we done here?

[A]

Last question. That I'm gonna wrap. All right.

[B]

Wrap.

[A]

And it's. It's actually. It's very serious. It is. No, no, it is. There are people that are going through tough times now. You have gone through very tough times over the last few years. When you're in the darkest point that you've ever been in. What are some things you've done to just overcome that today? It's. It's really hard to dig yourself out of that. And you were in it. I mean, I remember calling you and just talking to you. You were down and out. What are things that you did to kind of get back on track? And I think there's a lot of people. People listening. They look up to you. They watch your content, they laugh with you, but they don't also hear this side of you. And there's obviously a lot of learning and growing you've had to do through those chapters. And.

[B]

What's wrong with you? Because I'm up.

[A]

Yeah. But no, like, I actually.

[B]

I. I.

[A]

You know what? Honestly, I'm gonna tell you my takeaway, and then what you're talking.

[B]

No, you asked me. I don't care about your takeaway. This guy, his pocket has just been chirping this whole time. Lean on your partner. That's the biggest thing. Lean on your partner. I think, you know, someone told me not to toot my. Someone came to me, and they're like, you know what's refreshing about me is I. I don't keep anything. I. I'll say whatever.

[A]

Yeah. And I think no filter.

[B]

I think that's no filter. But also, like, I don't keep anything inside. So I guess Alex calls it trauma dumping on other people. It makes me feel better. But, like, I. I never keep anything inside.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

And when you do that, I mean, you're just, like, eating yourself from the inside out.

[A]

Well, they say, like, name your feelings to drain them. So it sounds like you just automatically do that.

[B]

Yeah, but, like, not to everyone. It's like, you know, with Alex, and when time was right. Yeah. Yeah. You got to communicate.

[A]

It's like, the biggest thing I think, too. What People have seen is in your worst times in life, you still. And even when I asked the question, you kind of laughed a little bit. And the re. I think you've done. And so Alex is so unbelievably well. Is saying, okay, it's all right. That we can use humor as a scapegoat to the worst moments in our life and find ways to also build a community and have people support us and root for us through laughing. Like, I think, like, honestly, I think that is a trading secret that I've learned from you guys because it's very. It's not intuitive. It's very. Almost like contradictory. But it's real and it works. And it's worked for you guys.

[B]

It's a coping mechanism that worked for us. It won't work for everyone, but. But, you know, it's funny now I'm thinking about. Because laughing right now with you like it. It's because I'm also deflecting those feelings.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, when we were on Cameron hall, she had this. She had this, like, montage video. She popped up. I didn't know they were what it was. I mean, I'm in front of this whole crowd and I didn't see it coming. And it gut checked.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was like, whole. I mean, I couldn't really keep it in all the way. And I didn't have the opportunity to, you know, like our dark humor, comedic laughing and like that. So knowing that, like the type of people that we are, it's like, damn. I mean, everyone's different. Yeah. So I don't know where I was going with that, but. Yeah. Lean on your partner, lean on your friends, lean on your family if you want. Whatever makes you feel better. But I think the main thing is don't keep inside.

[A]

Yeah. Let it out.

[B]

Yeah. And. And pain. Like with waves. Everything's in waves. I think that's what the therapist that we paid 150 for told me. I was like. Everything she was telling me, I'm like, this is. I already know. But she was like, you know, drama, pain, everything. Everything comes in waves. And it slowly will hit you less or something. Some. Something like that. I. I took that to heart.

[A]

I love it. It's beautiful. All right, before we wrap up the Trading Secret, any other questions you got for me?

[B]

When are you leaving?

[A]

I'm leaving soon. Very soon. Any other questions?

[B]

My brother.

[A]

Cheers.

[B]

Make sure you tune in to Trading Places with John and Jason Tarnick.

[A]

It's an honor. Trading places salute in 2025. How much you make More than you. It's true. Wait, you got a rapid trade secret face.

[B]

Oh, we're not done.

[A]

Yeah, we're not done. All right, John, Every guest that's. Come on, we'll see 300 episodes here that you got to wrap with a trading secret. You can't learn from Professor. Can't learn from a TikTok tutorial or in a textbook. Only through your life advice. It could be life advice, financial advice, career advice. One trading secret with John.

[B]

Poof.

[A]

That's specific to him. What do you got?

[B]

This guy with the questions. I thought we were just having a conversation. Actually, have a partner that's better than you. Find a partner that's better than you, for sure. Are you just going to dump it all over the table? Like fuck. You're so annoying.

[A]

Give me a trading secret. This is Mahogany Wayfair. Okay, John, give us a trading secret.

[B]

My trading secret is, honestly, is finding a partner that's better than you. Why would you ever find. You want to grow, you want to succeed. Surround yourself with people better than yourself and. And acknowledge that I want to be the dumbest person in the room. It's not that complicated. But, you know, unfortunately, right now, that's not the case. But, like, soon. Soon we'll mix that up.

[A]

We go upstairs.

[B]

Yeah. Soon it will be. Oh.

[A]

All right, John, I'm gonna say this. The trading. What is this? One thing I've learned from.

[B]

My mother's calling me mom.

[A]

Oh, my God. Facetimer. All right, answer the phone, Mrs. Buford. Hi, this is Foo Fart. How are you,

[B]

Mob? Let me call.

[A]

Hey, we're doing a podcast. I gotta ask you a question. One question. One question. What is one thing about John as a child? We wouldn't know, but we could only know from you.

[B]

When he was a little boy, he had to know exactly everything ahead of time.

[A]

So you couldn't just say, we're going here.

[B]

It was like, where? Why? How? And then if we were going somewhere, like, the next day, John would have all of his clothes laid out like a crime scene on the floor.

[A]

Did that worry you at all, or no? No, you loved it.

[B]

All right. That was it.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Anything else?

[A]

No, we're good.

[B]

We're good.

[A]

Thanks. We'll call you later. Great to see you.

[B]

Bye.

[A]

Bye.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

What a way to end it. All right, here's a training secret I learned from you, John. Let me dig it. You always stay in your lane. You're so authentic. No matter who's around you and in all situations, you know how to laugh and make the best of it. And honestly, you're such a piece of shit. I can't believe I've continued to stay friends with you. One of the biggest pieces of shit I met. I'm so glad that I won you in the divorce. So thank you.

[B]

You guys heard it here first, folks.

[A]

Where can people find everything you got going on? John?

[B]

I gotta figure out a better username. Maybe we should do a poll. John Booth. I'm like, was that the best thing I can come up with?

[A]

That's tough.

[B]

J O n Bouff you feel like

[A]

I see you as like the real John Booth.

[B]

It seems like to be honest, guys, you don't want to follow me. You can follow Alex at.

[A]

Just follow Alexandra Madison.

[B]

I don't even know her thing. Don't worry about it.

[A]

Thank you for tuning into another episode.

[B]

Scrap this podcast.

[A]

Episode one you couldn't afford to miss. Save on Family Essentials at Safeway and Albertsons this week at Safeway and Albertsons, Fresh cut cantaloupe, watermelon, pineapple or Melon Medley Bowls, 24 ounces are $5 each and Wild Caught Lobster Tails are $4.99 each. Limit eight member price plus selected sizes and variety of of Doritos, Lays, Cheetos, sun chips and Kettle cooked chips are $1.99 each. Limit for member price. Hurry in these deals won't last. Visit safewayoralbertsons.com for more deals and ways to save. This message comes from Capital One Commercial Bank. Your business requires commercial banking solutions that prioritize your long term success with Capital One. Get a full suite of financial products and services tailored to meet your needs today and goals for tomorrow. Learn [e-mail] commercial member FDIC save on family Essentials at Safeway and Albertsons this week at Safeway and Albertsons Fresh cut cantaloupe, watermelon, pineapple or melon medley bowls 24 ounces are $5 each and wild caught lobster tails are $4.99 each. Limit eight member price plus selected sizes and varieties of Doritos, Lays, Cheetos, some Sun chips and Kettle cooked chips are $1.99 each. Limit for member price. Hurry in these deals won't last. Visit safewayoralbertsons.com for more deals and ways to save.