302. Michael Allio & Jade Chapman on Love After Loss, Building Businesses & Betting on Yourself

Summary

Trading Secrets: Episode 302

Guests: Michael Allio & Jade Chapman
Host: Jason Tartick
Air Date: May 25, 2026
Theme: Love After Loss, Building Businesses, and Betting on Yourself

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Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and inspiring episode, Jason Tartick sits down with couple Michael Allio (widely known from "The Bachelorette") and skincare entrepreneur Jade Chapman. They delve deep into topics of grief, healing, new beginnings, entrepreneurship, blending families, and the financial realities and “trading secrets” they’ve learned along the way. The conversation weaves through personal journeys, business acumen, the power of betting on yourself, and what it looks like to choose love—and a new life—after profound loss.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Transitioning Life and Love After Loss

• [02:33–03:12] Jade discusses leaving Hollywood for Akron, shifting from a decade of LA life to a slower, quieter existence amid a national forest. She describes how their deep friendship laid the foundation for a lasting relationship.
• [04:14–05:18] Both Michael and Jade share why they were initially protective of making their relationship public, balancing authenticity with privacy.
• [05:18–06:39] Michael candidly calls Jade "the love of my second life," addressing the duality of loving someone lost and someone present:

  “There's so much moving forward and so much joy ahead… all of these firsts we're doing. Like raising James together…” (Michael, 05:19)

• [08:17–11:49] Jason asks about societal discomfort with loving again after loss; Michael articulates how “two things can be true at the same time”—holding space for both grief and new joy.

2. Blending Families and Navigating Grief

• [12:09–13:53] Jade shares her approach to blending with Michael’s son, James:

  “My goal was never to have the label of being his mom or his stepmom. It was being his best friend and someone he could come to…” (Jade, 13:00)

• [21:28–22:13] Jade highlights James’s emotional intelligence and resilience, crediting Michael’s open communication about grief and love.

3. Love, Resilience, and Starting Over

• [07:03–07:39] Jade details her motivation to move and start anew for love, describing it as the “dream in life… to find my person”—a sentiment echoed by Michael.
• [14:38–16:58] Jade reflects on her divorce, learning to view all past relationships as building blocks:

  “I really punished myself… but being married taught me so much. I always said, I will only end up with someone that's either been married before and divorced or a widow.” (Jade, 14:38)

4. Entrepreneurship & Building Businesses from Scratch

• [17:00–18:32] Michael and Jason hype up Jade’s entrepreneurial journey, noting the risk and bravery needed to leave her marriage and rebuild in LA from almost nothing.
• [19:13–22:26] Michael introduces "Where the Wild Heart Grows," a book born from bedtime stories he wrote to help his son process grief:

  “I started writing all these little kids' tales... because nature teaches you a lot about the seasons of life.” (Michael, 19:23)

• [25:22–28:07] The duo discusses how the book’s stories (selected by James) convey lessons on growth, forgiveness, and resilience. Notable story: “The Tale of Two Streams.”
• [29:34–30:40] Jade speaks on Michael’s relentless drive as an entrepreneur, his humility, and their shared experience building brands through adversity.

5. St. James Therapeutics: A Healing Venture

• [31:58–36:16] Michael shares the backstory and clinical successes of St. James Therapeutics, a topical treatment for chemotherapy side effects, inspired by his late wife, Laura:

  “We had 78% responder rate—people reported 95% improvement in three days... 100% would recommend it.” (Michael, 33:00)

6. Skincare Entrepreneurship: Jade’s Story

• [37:04–39:00] Jade recounts creating her line after helping her brother’s cystic acne and the all-consuming nature of starting a company:

  “I was the operations, the marketing, I formulated it... I built the business from the ground up. My dad... taught us to do that.” (Jade, 37:52)

7. Trading Secrets: Finances, Partnership, and Bet on Yourself

• [41:06–41:57] Michael’s key financial advice:

  “If you save... $50 a week [for your kid] until they're 18... they probably won't have to invest a single penny in order to be a millionaire.” (Michael, 41:35)

• [42:11–43:36] Jade describes her lifelong frugality and equal partnership in financial matters, emphasizing balance and independence:

  “I don't think a guy has to pay for all my stuff... I can do it. So I like to treat you, and he treats me. It’s very balanced.” (Jade, 43:18)

8. Looking to the Future

• [44:39–46:13] On their future: traveling, more family, and “retired in the woods”—always centered around their bond with James and each other.
• [46:38–47:46] Jason asks if TV is in their future; both are open but noncommittal, preferring to focus on their current joys and ventures.

9. Community, Public Life, and Bachelor Nation

• [48:43–50:49] Jade reflects on the unique culture of Bachelor Nation and the adjustment to public scrutiny:

  “The thing that's different for me is... everyone's opinions about what was. But all your fans have become so supportive...” (Jade, 49:06)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “She is the love of my second life.”
  – Michael (05:18)

• “All of my businesses were a success because they were rooted in believing in myself...”
  – Jade (52:39)

• “Instead of focusing on what you want to attain... think about what you don’t want to regret and work backwards.”
  – Michael’s parting trading secret (52:10)

• “Start over and over and over again until you are fulfilled.”
  – Jade (18:18)

• On partnership:

  “It’s very equal. I don’t… think a guy has to pay for all my stuff. I don’t need a guy to pay for all my stuff, because I can do it.”
  – Jade (43:18)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:04: Jade's move from Hollywood to Akron
• 05:18: Michael on loving after loss
• 08:17–11:49: Navigating public and private grief
• 13:00: Jade on building a blended family
• 14:38: Lessons from past marriages/relationships
• 19:23: Origin & purpose of "Where the Wild Heart Grows"
• 25:22: Explanation and lessons of key stories in the book
• 31:58: St. James Therapeutics clinical triumph
• 37:04: Jade on creating her skincare line
• 41:35: Michael’s $50/week for kids' future millionaire status
• 44:39: Gut instinct, commitment, and future together
• 49:06: Jade on integrating into Bachelor Nation
• 52:10 & 52:39: Final Trading Secrets from Michael & Jade

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Trading Secrets Recap

• Michael:
  Instead of focusing on what to attain for happiness, work backwards from what you don't want to regret.
• Jade:
  If an idea persists, bet on yourself and don’t stop; success comes from self-belief, regardless of difficulty.

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How to Find Them & What’s Next

• Michael: @MichaelAlioL4 | Where the Wild Heart Grows – thewildheartgrows.com
• Jade: kissablecomplexions.com, @jdwady180 on social

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This intimate episode offers an honest look at love’s second acts, the risks and resilience behind entrepreneurship, and the financial and emotional “trading secrets” of forging a life after heartbreak. It’s a must-listen for anyone navigating reinvention or searching for hope after loss.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today we are joined by one of the most emotionally honest couples on social media, Michael Aid and Jade Marie Chapman. Michael first became known to audiences through the Bachelorette and Bachelor in paradise, which you guys know. But over the years, people connected with something much deeper. His openness around grief, fatherhood, healing and rebuilding life after unimaginable loss. Now, alongside Jay, the two are building a relationship rooted intentionality, transparency, and family. Michael's newest project, where the Wild Heart Grows, began as something deeply personal. Stories created to help his son James better understand emotions, change and life's difficult moments. What started as a gift for his son evolved into what Michael calls a modern head heirloom for families everywhere. Michael and Jade, welcome to Trading Secrets.

[B]

Thanks for having us, buddy.

[A]

And it's finally nice in person to meet you. I know we've talked, we FaceTime all this stuff, but, like, it is so nice to meet you in person.

[C]

Truly it is.

[A]

How is the book tour? Would you call this a book press tour?

[B]

Yeah, I think there's going to be multiple stages, but spent the whole weekend in New York just seeing old friends and doing podcasts and news and is so much fun to talk about because I've been working on this thing for years. And then it's like, now your baby's out into the world, so you just share it and then you cross your fingers and hope it lands in the right hands.

[A]

I feel like it's been a little bit of a second since you've kind of done the whole podcast and press. Yeah, Press run. Is that fair to say you've taken a little time off to do your thing?

[B]

Well, I mean, we are building seriously the most beautiful life. I love what we got going on at home, and so it's nice to get out of the house.

[C]

Without a doubt, you've caged me up, dude.

[A]

I'm in Akron, by the way. In Akron.

[C]

It just snatched me up out of, like, the LA social life. Now it's just much more calm.

[B]

It's like the movie Misery, you know, and just keep her locked in there and she doesn't get to leave.

[A]

So you guys started dating? I think it was like, in 2023.

[B]

About two. Two years ago.

[A]

Yeah, about 2024.

[C]

Yeah. We knew each other for, like, five years, though. We met him in, like, 2020. Got together as a couple. Yeah, two and a half years ago.

[A]

Yeah, about two and a half years ago. And then you made the move to Akron, What?

[C]

It's about a year and a half ago.

[A]

And how? That's the question. Everyone's got to know how you're going from Hollywood to Akron. How has it been?

[C]

I was in Hollywood for 10 years, but honestly, I think I was ready to leave because I was a little bit tainted by it. I was just like, okay. I'm, like, done with this city life. So when he came around, I was like, okay. And it was no question. I think a lot of people are surprised how much I like it, but we literally live in the middle of a national forest that's like, walk outside and it feels like Narnia.

[B]

So drop the kayak in, go down. I mean, it's just nice and peaceful after just a long decade of running around.

[A]

I love it. And so from Hollywood to Akron and now life is going great. What do you think it is that makes the relationship work out so well?

[C]

Our connection. Yeah, it's just like it's always there. No matter what, through all the ups and downs, we always come back together stronger. And it's just easy, I think, because we have such a deep rooted friendship. And that's really how it started. Like, that's got to be our North Star.

[A]

Yeah. And I love it. Even the theme of your book. Right. So where the Wild Heart Grows, it does connect to even this storytelling and your twos, both, what you two have gone through in the past. We all have a history of heartbreaks and relationships that work out that lead us to where we are today, which I think is a beautiful thing. When you guys went through the process of, like, you know, it's a crazy thing that we have to do, but it's also the reality of publicly announcing your relationship.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Was that something given relationship history that you guys looked into long and hard about? Was it something you were reluctant to do? Was something you felt like you needed to do? Like, how did you address that?

[C]

I think that we were very protective.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And yeah, I've done that in the past as well. I'm not in the Bachelor franchise, but I've been online for 15 years. Like when Instagram started and oh, gee, being married, very og that. And then going through different relationships. I think you were the first one that I posted in years.

[B]

Yeah. So, yeah. And as you know, anybody that does it, it's like you want to share your. Your life with people online and you help build communities. And it's a really beautiful thing. Thing to show that authenticity. But you also have to understand it comes with risks.

[C]

Scrutiny.

[B]

Scrutiny. I know. You know, man. And so, like, we were wondering back and forth, but There was something very freeing about just, you know, letting our relationship shine that we don't regret whatsoever. And truth is, like, there's no going back. And I love this so much. Cause this woman, I am telling you, she. I started saying this, she is the love of my second life.

[A]

That's so sweet.

[B]

Yeah, well, it's like, it's like life was life for me. It's, it's, it's these different chapters and there's so much moving forward and so much joy ahead. Not just that we're experiencing now, but all of these firsts we're doing.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like raising James together and first time

[C]

doing that with anyone.

[B]

With anybody. With anybody.

[C]

Because he was so young.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, now that he's more developed, I mean, he's almost 10, you know, and this is a. He's a full blown human with thoughts and emotions and everything. It is a first.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. And so when she moved here from la, she's like, what's the blueprint? Give me the manual for what I'm walking into. I'm like, I have no idea. I haven't.

[C]

You literally threw me into it, dude.

[B]

No, I didn't. I don't have the manual. I don't think anybody has the manual because it was the first for me. So it's like, I'm not an expert. You can only write it by experiencing it. And all of these things were first. And you know, there's growing pains. Anybody who has a blended family, whether that's divorce or whether it's being widowed, anything. When you're bringing all these personalities and experiences together, there's a lot to manage. And we have spent the time in the right places and now we're just reaping the benefits of a good connection with our whole entire household.

[A]

And that's one thing. You had to make a lot of transition because you made a transition professionally.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I mean, you still do what you do, but in LA and in Hollywood. Yeah. You close your spot. I go to Akron. But you're also making a big personal adjustment into moving to Akron and. And Michael A's family. Let's talk, talk to me about, like, what from your past has allowed you to be able to be so resilient, to make such a big change both professionally and personally.

[C]

Love.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I will do anything for true love. And like, because our connection was so strong, like, in my gut, I instantly knew he was the one. Even though we were friends for so long and I was in different relationships, our timeline finally collided where we both were available to Navigate or explore that. And so it was really easy for me to make the decision to do that because that is, like, my dream in life, and it always has been to find my person, and I know that that's him.

[A]

So this is beautiful start to a podcast. I feel like this is unbelievable.

[B]

No problem crying right now.

[A]

Yes. Seriously? Yeah.

[C]

Obviously, it's sad to leave that life behind.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

But I've. I feel like I've made a more meaningful life in Akron because it's rooted in, like, community, and this guy's family is unreal. I'm not just getting one person. I'm getting a mini him and then an entire family that is just rooted in so much love.

[A]

So it's beautiful.

[C]

I hit the jackpot.

[A]

Yeah, you guys both hit the jackpot.

[B]

Yes, we do. Yes, we did.

[A]

And, you know, even again, tying in your book, which is a big theme today, is, like, where the Wild Heart Grows. I think something I was thinking about that kind of truly kind of makes me sick is that I think society, and maybe you've seen it here or there, maybe you haven't, but they're often uncomfortable with this idea that you can carry. So such deep love for someone who's no longer with us while still having such love for someone who is with us. And I'm curious just how both of you two have navigated those waters of making sure that you're staying true to you and maybe ignoring the noise of people that get uncomfortable with this idea.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you and I even talked about this when you were on back a couple years ago.

[B]

Yeah. Right, right. And I think everybody will eventually arrive at the fact that. That, like, two things are true at the same time. Duality of life. You can hold a space in sadness for something you lost and also immense hope for something that you have. I mean, are we ever completely happy? During the day, it's like, no. You're stressed, you're running around, you're laughing, you're upset. But that's still a happy life. And those two things have. The duality part has allowed me to really appreciate the moments a lot more, because, you know, life is. Life is very fleeting. And when you're looking for what makes you happy, it's really about what. What don't you want to regret later, not what makes you happy now, but what are the things that, you know at the end of the road that you're going to regret and build your life that way? Because it's a lot. It's a lot simpler, and we're building that I always thought this second chapter would be a compromise. How would I not be able to know that? I thought the second love was going to be something that was comfortable, but not Laura. And this. You fulfill me in every which way because I'm a different person now. I require so many different things. And we're growing together at such a beautiful pace, and there's still so much ahead.

[A]

And I think it's beautiful how you can honor the past with just. Just such lightness.

[B]

And she does such a good job of it, too, with James. I mean, James wants to know his mom, and she holds space for that.

[C]

Yeah, he's always been able to do that. And I think. I mean, the reason why I even found Michael was he was talking about Laura on the tv. My sister was with me watching it, and I just passed by, and I was like, if I can find a man that loves me the way this man loves woman, I will be so happy. So I've always been super inspired by the way that he loves her. And how amazing is it that you get to have two great love stories.

[B]

It's amazing a lot of people don't get that and how appreciative I am of you to be able to allow me that space, to be able to do all of that. And I can't be your hype person anymore. This woman literally got dropped into Akron. Before I knew it, she had tons of friends. She is ingrained in my family. James runs in the front door, and he's like, where's Jay? Just runs right past me. Like, I haven't been, you know, wiping his ass for the last seven years, man. Come on, dude. But I love it because that's when you moved. I said, that's when I know everything will be good, is when James doesn't run to me.

[C]

I still have the screenshot of you saying that. Yeah, I saved it.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

I said, that's. That's. That's when I'll. That's when I'll know everything is. Is right. It won't be a feeling. It'll be a clear action where he runs to her. And that doesn't hurt my feelings at all. That gives him a chance to live a very normal, happy life as a kid.

[A]

And how. I Curiosity, how long does that take to kind of build that connection?

[C]

I mean, James and I have always had a connection.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

When we were doing long distance, and I. I met him, what, when he was like, four or five?

[B]

Yeah, you met him when he was four.

[C]

And I remember you were like, I have an event. Can you babysit him?

[B]

And I was like, dude, I did. I did. Looking back, I mean, that's so horrible.

[C]

Just met him. But I was like, okay, dude, but

[A]

I trust my child.

[B]

Oh, my God. It made sense at the time.

[A]

I don't know. Your gut was speaking to you.

[B]

It really is. It really was.

[C]

But I've never stopped trying to keep that connection alive because it matters so much to me. And my goal was never to have the label of being his mom or his stepmom. It was being his best friend and someone that he could come to and someone that he could tell things to. And you told me this, that I'll come to you and say things that he said. And you're like, he's never told me that.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[C]

Because I want. I want him to be able to feel open enough. Because sometimes he's not going to say. I mean, how many times have we told our parents everything?

[B]

Never.

[C]

You know, so being kind of that outside perspective and extra ear. Yeah. Just getting comfortable with him. I mean, he's my bro.

[B]

They bro hard.

[C]

He comes in, he's.

[A]

They broke.

[C]

And he'll come and be like, bro, get up.

[B]

Yeah, dude, I know.

[C]

Give me five more minutes.

[B]

And one of the funniest things, Jason, is like, you go on Jade's Instagram and it's. It's beautifully feminine. Right. You look in our house, and she is WWF in this thing. You know, they are wrestling and. And she is. She is one of the guys. And you definitely need your. Your women time sometimes, but you can adapt, and you have in such a awesome way.

[C]

Yeah. I grew up with boys by the beach in San Diego, so I do feel like I'm a tomboy at heart.

[B]

You are.

[A]

As you guys are talking, all I want to do is ask you questions about the future and what's going to come. I'm gonna get to that. I can't do that yet because I gonna start with what has happened. And I think that also alludes to your book, too. So before I kick it to you in your book, Jay, tell me a little bit about. You said before that you were married. So what would you say are things for me, like, every relationship there's such appreciation for, because without those relationships, I wouldn't have been able to be the person I am today. I wouldn't have been able to learn from things and try and look in the mirror and do things differently from previous relationships or even being in a marriage. What would you say are some of the biggest lessons that you've learned, that it's carried forward to you now finding this pure state of bliss that you're in in a relationship.

[C]

That's a very good question. Because my perspective is now that I look back, everything really was leading me to this. Wow. All the challenges, everything that I've gone through, they're not mistakes, they're not in a negative. I don't hold them in a negative space anymore because I feel like they truly built me. Like even getting married and divorced, I really punished myself for a really long time making the decision to get divorced. But I feel like being married taught me so much. And I remember like 10 years ago when that happened, I always said, I will only end up with someone that's either been married before and divorced or a widow. I said that 10 years ago.

[A]

No way.

[C]

And now when I look back at it, I really like to be with someone that has experience, someone that's gone through life. Because I have lifed.

[B]

You have lived many lives. Oh, you have.

[C]

And I think looking at each relationship as like a lesson and also even not they were wrong or I was wrong, but what do they teach me? Because everything is a lesson. So I look back often just to appreciate where I am now.

[A]

In the many lives that you've lived, which chapter of that life has made the biggest impact to where you are now?

[C]

Oh, wow. I definitely would say right after I got divorced because when I left, I mean, I had already built my career up very large. I moved from San Diego to Utah to be with him. He was Mormon, I grew up Mormon. And so when I went there, I literally created my first business called Kissable Complexions. Basically I was like a one stop shop for brides events for them to come to me. And I would do airbrush, makeup, artistry, skincare, all of it.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

And I started becoming an entrepreneur at a super young age because my dad was one. He always taught us to do that. But I would say right after I got divorced, I left with less than $1,000 to my name. And I had built my business up large. But I did not want to go through the stress or just the fighting of fighting over money. And I went to Hollywood with barely anything.

[B]

Yeah, she asked for nothing in the divorce.

[C]

Nothing. I walked away.

[B]

Good for you.

[C]

Now I here I am.

[B]

And I'm gonna hype her up even more because I mean, just imagine it's like you look at her online and it's like she has this very successful career. A lot of people think you just land on it, but that's a frightening moment in someone's life when your life gets flipped upside down. You move to Hollywood, you bet on yourself. And she has been able to build up a successful skincare line, an amazing spa like you in your field. I mean, I've seen people stop you, and I think they're coming up to me because of the Bachelor, and they're like, I've been following you for 15 years. Like, you. You did all this. She's the pros pro. She's everybody's professional's favorite professional.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah, she's. She's up in that top. No, you are. You are. I'm telling you, it's incredible to watch.

[A]

Well, I think the strength, especially at that age, you know, not that age should connect to strength, but it's experience, which you talked. The strength to be in a position where you move to Utah, you're married, you're in it. And to say, like, I'm going to choose me, even though choosing me is going to be the hardest thing I ever have to do, like, there's so much courage in that decision. And obviously you've done it with your businesses, too.

[C]

So it's the strength to start over over and over and over again until you are fulfilled.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Whatever that may be. And even with nothing, you know, I feel like when I look back, like I am proud of myself for constantly continuing to trailblaze forward, like, through the flames.

[A]

Yeah. I love it. That's a good question to also ask you. You, too, have had a lot of life chapters, some in the public eye, some private that are now public. I would say, like, through. Especially when you think about your book, like, through all the chapters you've had, which has been the most impactful to the person you are today.

[B]

Oh, geez. I think they all contribute in very unique ways. Loss and having a child that changes your life immediately. I mean, I can't even remember life before James going through loss and the chapter of rebuilding again, that's all entirely new. So, I mean, I'm grateful for all of the phases, I would say.

[A]

Yeah, I love it. So talk to me about how those phases kind of led to this project with your book and the style of the book and the writings, the short. Like, give us the summation of how

[B]

it led you to this. Yeah, I mean, it really was never meant to be a book. I mean, I started this five years ago, and it was really five years ago. Yeah. Because it wasn't meant to be a book. So the whole genesis of it was I didn't Know how to breach. As just a single dad, I didn't know how to breach Difficult conversations with James. And every parent can understand this. You get a kid in a room, you ask them how their day was, they don't tell you. And in the meantime, I'm wondering, are you severely traumatized by losing your mom or what's going on in your life? It's like, I didn't have multiple eyes on James, and so I didn't want to avoid those conversations just because he wasn't bringing them up. So I started writing all of these little kids tales, and we would read them at bedtime. And here's the thing, it's a psychology behind it. When you remove the child from being at the center of it and you make it about a character, they're more likely to talk about it. Like, if I started lecturing to you, you may shut off. But if I tell you a story, then we can talk about the characters together and what's going on, how you're going to support it. And so at bedtime, we would tell these little stories about things that happen in nature, because nature teaches you a lot about the seasons of life. And the overwhelming arc in this book is to appreciate the seasons of life, because in between, like, what you have and what you're getting, that transition period that's uncomfortable in its life. And so it's like there's growing going on even when you're feeling still, there's lessons to be learned, even when you feel like you're alone. And the book is just beautiful. It's very old world storytelling. And the art in there is all hand drawn oil paintings from another dad. It's. It's really stunning.

[C]

I've been with him during the whole project.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And seeing how it's come to life over the last two years and just knowing you and talking to that question of, like the most, you know, pivotal year or whatever, I do feel like grief has shaped you a lot.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And transformed you. And I always was super inspired by the way that he saw life because it's very different. Like, you see it backwards a little bit.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I feel like the lessons that you have taught James, I mean, this child is unreal.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Truly. He's different child because he has gone through so much loss and came out the other end. Like, he's just very emotionally intelligent for his age.

[B]

He's a wise kid.

[C]

That's you.

[B]

Oh, thank you.

[C]

And so this book, it really brings your philosophy, and it's not preachy or anything, but it Brings hard conversations to light that I feel like every parent should have with their kids.

[A]

I feel like it's hard that with. With adults to check in, like business partners, colleagues to check in and just say, hey, how are you feeling? Right. To get people talk about their feelings when they're fully grown, mature adults. Then I'm trying to put like my dad hat on. And I'm trying to think about how challenging it would be with an 8 year old, 7 year old, 5 year old, 6 year old, just be like, hey, how are you feeling today? Then you put on the different layers of communicating with your child about their mom not being there.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And doing it in a way that can work for them. I'm sure there was so many lessons you learned along the way that led you to storytelling, which connected. What are some of those lessons? Like when you were trying to go through your own grieving process and then communicate with your child, understand and check in. What were some of the things that you realized this wasn't working right. That led you to the stories? Like, what was some of that?

[B]

It was really just this deep desire to connect with him in a deep fear that I was coming up short with James because mom wasn't in the picture. And mothers are so insightful.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

I mean they can.

[A]

Instinct. I could say hi to my mom and she'll know just the tone of what she's saying, what's wrong instantly.

[B]

Right every time. Right every time. And I'm like, maybe I don't have that. And I don't want him to be a byproduct of something that's broken. And, you know, these, the stories that are in the book, they're universal truths. They're things that we learned at a very early age about showing up for others, about letting go of grudges, about letting go as a whole. Letting go as a whole. Appreciating the beautiful things, knowing that they don't last forever. I mean, all of these stories are really interwoven and they're things that along the way, adults forget. Because I know I forgot them. And when I was writing this thing, it was really healing me. Yeah, they were the words I needed to hear too. So I think the book is for everyone, people from the age of 4 to 95. Because there's no difference between growing up and growing old.

[A]

Zero of all the short stories, I'm sure all these short stories, at this point, you've read them to James.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Which of the short stories, when you read them, did you notice? Like that kind of clicked and maybe hit the hardest or connected the hardest.

[B]

Well, it's interesting because there's actually 35 stories. James picked these seven.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah. So he hand picked all of these stories because I wanted it to. Since the stories were for him, I wanted him to be a part of the book. And so I was like, which ones we throwing in here, bud? And he's like, that's kind of crazy. And also he's like, that one's trash. I'm like, all right, okay. I appreciate that.

[C]

Very honest.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

But the thing that's kind of crazy is the ones that he chose. It shows, like, your life.

[B]

It does.

[C]

Like there's even one about us in there. There is, and it's really beautiful how it's just been laid out.

[B]

Yeah. There's a story about the tale of two streams, where two streams are best friends and they're going down life together, experiencing all these great things. And then an object lands right in front of them and they all have to go their separate directions. One takes, you know, the high land and the other one goes to the lowland. And all the things that they experience and all of the growth that they happen, that happens individually for each one never would have happened if they would have stayed together.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

And so those are the. Those are the kind of lessons that are taught through just child imagery and easy accessible storytelling that deliver really layered truths. And my goal is that the parent who's reading that, they're not going to see streams. They're going to see something in their own life and how that resonates. And so it's a book that you can come back to at different periods in your life.

[A]

So it's like life experiences that create these feelings and lessons that then connect to just everyday stories that could connect with any age at any time.

[B]

I mean, maybe the Two Streams is about divorce.

[A]

Yeah. Interesting. You know, of any of these stories, I'm curious from lessons you've learned of being in the public eye or from Bachelorette or Bachelor in Paradise. Do any of these stories connect to that chapter of your life?

[B]

Oh, geez.

[C]

I feel like. Yeah. Which one you think maybe the Stones one? Yeah, I feel like that. That one's about forgiveness.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And letting go, judging.

[B]

Then there's the Dancing Dandelion.

[C]

I don't remember what that one's called.

[A]

Tell these two the Stones or the Dancing Dinolite.

[C]

What are those stones? One, because I feel like that one, that one always resonated with me.

[B]

It's about a bird that keeps collecting stones because one time a stone was thrown at them. And so it sits off the tree at the bottom of the hill, sitting on a pile of stones, thinking that it's safe. And he said, if, you know, if there's no stones around, then nothing can be thrown at me. But then it always. That just gave me goosebumps. It meets a friend and a friend starts talking about, like, when I get a thorn in my hoof, it keeps me from running, and that's my favorite thing to do. And so eventually the bird starts letting go of some of the stones so it can fly again. And it's really. You know, I don't want to always tell people what it's about because I want them to create their own meaning. But I think on a surface level, it's really about carrying the weight of resentment, of past guilt, of all of those things that keep you from living a more fulfilled, happier life. Wow.

[A]

Deep. Now I see why it took you five years to write this thing.

[B]

Well, I wrote 35 of them to James. A long time to figure out which ones were good enough. But, I mean, that's what's great about the book. I'm telling you. It's got a very old world, heirloom library feel to it that isn't. I don't see this stuff at Barnes and Noble. And that's why we're proud of it. And we didn't set out to like, hey, let's write a book that doesn't exist at Barnes and Noble. It just happened that way.

[A]

Wow. So tell me about the. Let's talk a little bit. We talk business on this podcast, the business behind the book. Are you working with a publisher? Do you self publish it? Is it in Barnes and Noble? Where can people get it?

[B]

Yeah. So, I mean, I got, I got approached by some of the larger publishers. I talked to you about some of it too. And I don't know, I felt like with this one, I wanted to sell to independent bookstores. I wanted to reward the people that are doing yeoman's work out there. And it's not available on Amazon, so you can buy the book online at the Wild heart grows and wildheartgrows.com and we're currently expanding our independent bookstore presence. But, you know, we want to reward those people that are. That are out there. And the book should be available to ship, I think, probably early to mid June.

[A]

Okay. So we're in pre sale, pre sale territory now.

[B]

But it's, it's. It really is stunning. I'm really, really proud of this thing. Yeah. Thank you, babe.

[C]

This man, the amount of stuff like people don't see, they maybe see like 1% on social media.

[A]

Tell us it. The 99. Tell us all about it. Because he doesn't give us a wee podcast with him. He doesn't self promote enough. So I want to hear more Italian.

[C]

And he's humble. But no, I, I call him the Tank because he just keeps going and going, never complains, Constantly building this unreal company. St. James, you know about it.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And like what he's done with that, it's not by chance.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

It's literally because you never gave up on it. And I respect that so much because I did the same thing with my skincare line and that's really what brought us together was we were building at the same time, going through stuff with labs or finances and we really connected on that. There's just so much stuff in the background that he's doing that I'm just like, no one has any idea. And doing an incredible job at being a parent.

[A]

I mean, let's, let's talk a little bit about these hats. Right. Like you, your father. Yeah. It's maybe in the future here, coming up soon, but for a long time you're going back to back. TV personality.

[B]

Oh, geez. Yeah.

[A]

Creator slash influencer, now author, entrepreneur of your own business, now entrepreneur and co founded St. James Therapeutics. Raising capital now selling your books. Right. Now. What other hats do we not know about? On top of those 15.

[B]

That's, that's enough hats.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I'm good. I'm good at it. I'm, I'm lucky enough. And thanks for the words too. Is all of the projects that I'm working on have, have deep meaning for me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And even though it can get incredibly stressful, I am so happy I have the privilege to work on things that bring me so much joy. The 18 year old self in me never would have guessed this was even possible. I thought I'd be at a cubicle selling widgets for somebody else's dream.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And while like the entrepreneurship as you both know, is really challenging, sometimes it's such an awesome ride and it's like I would, I wouldn't, I wouldn't change it for anything.

[A]

It's the best. It's the best. Where. Give us a little update. St. James Therapeutics, like where are we right now? Because we've seen some stuff online you've shared, like what's the. Exciting man.

[B]

Exciting. So, so St. James Therapeutics, we created a topical therapeutic that offsets a side effect of chemotherapy called hand foot syndrome. It affects about 600,000 people annually. And a lot of chemotherapies cause it. It's burning, blistering hands and feet. It's absolutely brutal. Your fingerprints go away. You can't unlock your phone. That's how brutal it is. And so Laura had it really bad back in 2017. That's what led to this. And we just finished up our first clinical trial.

[A]

Wow. What does the clinical trial look like?

[B]

Oh, well, the results were all independent, run by a CRO, a contract research organization. So we start this thing, what would have been August of last year, looking to collect 50 patients, run them through the whole protocol. And I'm just sitting here like, oh my God, like, waiting for the data, because you don't get to see it biased. It dropped like three weeks ago. We had 78% responder rate.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

People reported 95%. 95% of patients reported significant improvement in their skin within three days.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

And 100% would recommend it. 100% said that they would recommend it to a friend. We also collected some data on about 12 radiation patients that have radiation burns. And it was, it was high 90s success. And we get before and after photos.

[C]

They're insane.

[B]

And it's, it's, it's, it's really incredible. And this is a novel molecule that we're doing. This isn't a white labeled product where you take menthol and steroids now, didn't you.

[A]

And I remember in our last podcast, you did this in your basement.

[B]

Yeah, it started in my basement and it was obviously like, I can't Walter white this thing forever. So, you know, I ended up getting with some real professionals and I've been lucky enough to have a real amazing crew behind me that have the expertise, the background, and the passion to help cancer patients.

[A]

So clinical trial goes well, obviously. Now what do you do from here?

[B]

It went really well. Dude.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, those are crazy.

[B]

I mean, I was in the pharma world for a decade and I'm looking at the, these statistics, just shaking my head like this, this feels weird because it's, it was really positive. And so the next step is we're raising $2 million. We had an investor week last week. We got halfway there.

[A]

Wow. Let's go.

[B]

One week.

[A]

So a billion raised. Million to go. And once you bring that, once you raise $2 million, you'll be able to do what with that capital?

[B]

We're going to do a larger scale, multicentered, double blind placebo. Controlled study. That's physician assisted.

[A]

That's obviously to get more credibility and data.

[B]

Yeah, more data. We may do some animal studies in vitro and vivo.

[C]

No monkeys, dude.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

We have like, old, like, jokes. I created my skincare line from scratch too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

We were constantly like, we can't have animal testing, man.

[B]

Yeah, no, no, animal.

[A]

So what's it. Yeah, I was gonna say what is. Is. Is someone who is dating a powerful woman in animal welfare. What does animal studying mean?

[B]

So human skin is most like pigs.

[A]

Oh, interesting.

[B]

This is a topical, so no harm to animals.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So as there's. There's different tests. You hear animal testing and it sounds

[A]

hopefully benefit to animals. Right.

[B]

If they have helping you, it may be able to be beneficial. I mean, there's. There's certain animal testing that isn't. Isn't cruel. It's not injecting them and.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And them mutating. It may be measuring the response time a pig or a rat when they. When their skin is slightly warmed up to actually move and notice it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's not burning the skin. It's. It's seeing if we're hitting any receptor sites that are pain signals.

[A]

Okay. Fascinating.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's all raise 2 million, go to the next step, more credibility and build it from there.

[B]

We want this.

[A]

We.

[B]

At the end of the day, Laura wanted this to happen. So this started this. I mean, I've been working on it for nine years, man. And it's like, I thought this was gonna be two years and out, but there we go.

[C]

That's not how it works.

[B]

I know that now. And we wanna be able to have people have quality of life while they're going through chemo, not have to compromise on living their life to the fullest and being able to complete treatment. So it's like, if you can manage the side effects. It's called cancer supportive care. If you can manage those side effects and give people that dignity, they can stay on their chemo till the end.

[A]

Amazing.

[B]

Without dose reduction or discontinuation. So it's a really, really exciting time.

[C]

It's the important stuff.

[A]

Yeah. I want you back once you go to next steps. A full episode on that.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I think that's a good transition to skin care. You got beautiful skin. You have been in Skin and Beauty and Salon. I mean, what's. What are. You have beautiful skin too. What? Give us some training secrets here. What's the secret? What are you doing?

[C]

I mean, we do use my line.

[B]

I will say that her Skincare line's insane.

[A]

Tell me about it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

So, you know, I've been in this space for a long time. Estheticians, 17 years, tried everything under the sun. A lot of brands, they would hire me to teach for them. So I would go and do educations, teach other estheticians. So teaching has really been my background and learning about ingredients and all that. And it was probably five years ago, my brother came to me. He had cystic acne. He didn't want to go to school. And I was like, I'm going to try to make something for you. So I started mixing a bunch of stuff in my spa. And it was trial and error. And then we found something and it took away all his acne. And I was like, shit, now I got to make a skincare.

[B]

Yeah, well. And just like my product, it's not. It's not a white label product. This is all novel stuff.

[C]

I sourced just every ingredient. I went to Europe to do it. So once I made that, I was like, okay, now I need to find a lab. But I had no idea what it took to really create a brand. Now that I look back, I mean, I went to school, not school of like, business school. Like, that put me through everything.

[B]

Got your mba.

[C]

I mean, I was the operations, the marketing. I formulated it, like, all the social. And then I really built the business from the ground up. And my dad, having experience seeing an entrepreneur and seeing what it does to you, which there's a negative and a positive. You have to have balance. I'm a little bit of a workaholic.

[A]

Here we are.

[C]

I mean, like, I got through it and I was like, ooh, this is teetering on, like, not. Not a good workaholic. Because it really does take over your life. If it is your dream, you will go to the end even nine years later.

[B]

That's right.

[C]

I mean, I self funded the thing.

[B]

She self funded the whole thing, ma'. Am.

[A]

And where can people, like, where. Tell me about it. Where can people find? And what SKUs do you have?

[C]

So I only created one SKU. I have a second SKU that is not a physical product.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

But I only released to professionals at first because I literally ran through most of my money. I mean, I took over.

[A]

How much did you put into it?

[C]

A couple commas.

[A]

Yeah, okay, yeah, understood.

[C]

But it was either I had two choices because I had built my J.D. wady Inc. Company for so long, doing a ton of, you know, brand deals and education and everything. I was either gonna buy a house or I was Gonna do the brand. I chose to do the brand.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And I'm glad that I did because it literally taught me so much.

[B]

Yeah. And the brand's extremely successful. And betting on yourself, it's so scary. And I, it's, it's so admirable what you've been able to do. I, I absolutely love it. And I love that we get to nerd out and talk about all of these things. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Two entrepreneurs at heart. I mean, developing some form of skin type of product.

[B]

Yeah. Well, even commonalities. Yeah. Even for my company. I lean on her and I'm like, who's the good labs? Like, who?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What other products would be good to add to our existing product for Synergy?

[A]

I love it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

One of the best trading secrets you ever gave or that we've ever had on this show, I'll never forget it, is when you did talk about the fact that Laura was bringing in about 50 of income to the household and that you didn't have life insurance. And your message to everyone out there was, if you have a kid, make sure parents have life insurance. It was one that, like, I'll just. It was ingrained into my brain.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Let's go into any type of, of trading secrets you have on the finance side. It could be individually through your own business ventures, or maybe something that you guys have learned together. Bringing businesses together under one roof, working together. Either one. But just like a financial trading secret. Since your last one, I thought was just so powerful, maybe that you've learned since moving in together, both being individual operators and doing what you do.

[C]

What would you say you're really good at investing? Like you put your money to work.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And you always have been.

[B]

That doesn't, it doesn't talk back. You know, it's like you just put you, you, you put it to work and it yields you more return.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You don't have to convince it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You've always been really smart with that. I remember five years ago, you're trying to help me with that. And I think that's something that your money is always in different areas.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Whether it be buildings or housing and stuff like that.

[B]

Yeah. Real. Real estate. And I think in. Or save, even if it's a little. As early as possible.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, I mean, the numbers are insane. If you have kids at home, and if you save them from the time they were born, $50 a week until they're 18, and then whatever's accumulated by the time you get to 18, they probably won't have to invest a single penny in order to be a millionaire.

[A]

Yep, exactly.

[B]

And so that's just 50 bucks a week. And so getting a comfortable life, I mean, it's possible by just being incredibly disciplined and frugal.

[C]

I mean, you always say that about me.

[B]

She's amazing. When I first time I met her, first time I met her and we went on a date, I'm like, you look expensive. He didn't say that, but, no, that's what I was thinking. I'm like, you look like you have this caviar taste, and I'm like this Podunk guy from Akron.

[C]

I've always been a saver.

[B]

Yeah, she has.

[C]

Even when I started my businesses at a super young age, the only reason I was able to even create the brands that I have is because I saved. And I was always saving for a rainy day, having different money in different areas. I'm very frugal. And even when I go to the grocery store, I'm looking at like, okay, this is a little less sense.

[B]

Yeah. Pay yourself first.

[A]

Pay yourself first. Do you guys have any, like, hard rules at all that you've created as far as, like, love and money goes or anything? Any tips or things that have worked?

[C]

We're very equal.

[B]

Yeah. We're in line.

[C]

Like, when we first met, you were very surprised at how much I picked up the bill. I was like, that. I think I took you out in, like, three dates. This.

[B]

You did. She romanced me, man.

[C]

That's not a thing with us.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like. And I've actually never been like that in any relationship.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But I feel like with you and I, it's very equal. It's very balanced. I don't. I personally, and this is just my opinion, I don't think a guy has to pay for all my stuff. I don't need a guy to pay for all my stuff, because I can do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So I like to treat you.

[B]

I like to be treated. You know, don't we all, buddy?

[C]

And he treats me.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Very good.

[B]

Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

[A]

I gotta tell you, the theme of this podcast is just balance, health, and happiness. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, which leads me to.

[A]

I mean, everyone's asking, even my mom when I told them I was interviewing you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She's like, they gotta get married. Those two are adorable. What is. What are we thinking here? What does it look like? Do you know what kind of ring you want?

[B]

I think she does.

[C]

I. I know what it is.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Already.

[B]

I mean, if anyone's listening and wondering what the future is for Us. Yeah, this is the one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, 100. I knew that a long time ago. We were talking before about, like, this. I'm not. Not trying to get all heady here, but say, like, religion and God and all of that, the existence of it, which. That sounds really heady now, but I think God exists in the gut, the gut instinct, when you have a very powerful gut pull towards something. Because if I were to ask you describe what gut feels like when you have a gut instinct. The words are kind of tricky.

[A]

The words are tricky.

[B]

They're a little bit tricky to pull objective, and it's hard. Yeah. And it's like, my gut has always been her, like, from day one. Everything else has been details. It's been working out our kinks and figuring out how we can grow together in logistics. But the gut has always been strong. And it's like, when that is pulling there, there's the commitment there. The love is there. Everything else is just easy. It doesn't need to get all, like, complicated in a relationship.

[A]

So in five, 10 years, perfect world painted. What does it look like? Oh, five, 10 years.

[B]

We're retired in the woods.

[A]

Kids.

[C]

We talk about it all the time. We have lots of different lives that we do. At one point, we're gonna live in Loretto.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And it's our. Our place. We also would love a place in Chicago, maybe New York.

[B]

Yeah, we got a spot.

[C]

We're traveling.

[A]

James. Let's go.

[C]

James.

[B]

Yeah, I think once he gets to.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Once he gets to college. So. Yeah, Once he gets to 18, 19, I think we're gonna be free to just.

[C]

Just. Yeah.

[B]

You know, Rome. But it's like, we're in that season right now to just hunker down.

[C]

Ends up going to college. We both were saying this, like, we want a place there. I know us three. Like, that's what it is. It's not us, too.

[B]

Good point.

[C]

I always told him, like, James is like, we're like the bread.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

The middle.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And it's just always like, the Trinity.

[B]

It's so. It's so interesting, like, leading up to a trip. We're both talking. We're like. We're so excited to finally get out. Like, we needed this for a couple. Then on the flight there, she's always like, where's James? I miss James. And I'm like, that's beautiful thing. That's just a beautiful thing. She's always saying that, like, in the middle of the night, like, hey, Michael, you up? Like, yeah. I just had to tell you this thing that James told me, and I'm like, okay, yeah, it's cool to share.

[A]

That's adorable. All right, so the future is bright.

[B]

Future bright.

[A]

Found one, which is a beautiful thing. What about. We've seen you on TV before. You think we'll see you on TV again?

[B]

I don't think. Think so.

[C]

Take him.

[A]

I know. I said either one of you. Either one of you.

[C]

Oh, okay. Well.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

You're going.

[A]

I said either one of you. Like, is this. Is this a potential thing?

[B]

Maybe.

[A]

Wait, something you've looked into?

[B]

What? Going on tv. I haven't.

[C]

I will say this. I always joke with him. Yeah. Sign me up for the Bachelor.

[B]

Yeah. Love blind. Yeah, right.

[C]

I'll know who to call.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[C]

I always tell him, though. I'm like, we'd be really good at the Amazing Race. Well, you mean shit at maps and.

[B]

Oh, I'm horrible at directions. I always choose the wrong way.

[C]

He gets lost everywhere.

[B]

Everywhere.

[C]

I just tried to meet him at a coffee shop and he was at the different one.

[A]

Oh, that's how directions aren't your thing.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

No, no.

[A]

Would you say your thing, like, in the, like, relationship? Like, this is my thing. It's, like, history. And that's why you're going to see Hamilton.

[B]

That's right. That's right. What do you mean? I'm a know it all. I'm a good way. I'm a beast.

[A]

Like, a.

[B]

Like, are you. Oh, beast.

[A]

Wow. Yeah. Oh, ye.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How about. And how about you? What is your. Would you say your big thing that you bring the table? You're like, this is my thing. I'm gonna do it.

[C]

I'm more emotional intelligence, extremely deep.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I would say, like, it can have a lot of headaches.

[B]

Nurturing. You got a lot of that.

[C]

A lot of mental health stuff. I'm getting James to do meditation and yoga in the morning.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Breath work.

[A]

I see. Yeah. I see that on Instagram. And then you're doing the facials. And now you've taught him how to do the facials. Oh, my God. Guys, got it teed up.

[B]

I know.

[C]

Truly spoiled. And I love it after.

[B]

After the. After a baseball game, he's like, he'll just start making these noises, like, just waiting for Jade to come over and say, do you need a massage? And he's like, yeah, my back hurts. I'm like, you're getting a massage from. Normally, this would be like $500.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

You just get it on the week

[A]

and you do your Thing. Well, let me ask you this. It's a favorite question that friends always ask Katherine. So I want to ask you.

[B]

I can't wait to meet her.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You guys will love.

[A]

You'll love her. But Bachelor Nation, you're new to it. You're seeing it all, the moving parts, the fans, the people that are from the show, the alumni. What's your synopsis and take on everything? Bachelor Nation.

[C]

You know, I've seen a lot of seasons in the past, and the last one I did watch was yours, and I've always been supportive of it. The thing that surprises me the most is when I meet them in person, and there's so many salt of the earth people. Like, I just met Pete. Pete.

[B]

Pilot Pete.

[A]

Oh, yeah, he's great.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Super nice guy. Yeah. That's sweet.

[C]

And I've known you for a while.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

But I think the thing that's, like, different for me is being with someone on the Bachelor. Everyone, like, they connect your relationships to what they've seen online, and you're going on there for love, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Well, now you've gotten it. But they still have opinions about what was.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

And so that's always been a little bit of, like, messes with my mind because I'm like, okay, he's happy now. Be happy for him. But I think that, like, all your fans have become so supportive now. Like, at first, it's obviously different because most of the Bachelor people end up with them, but you know this. You're not with someone in the franchise, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Have you felt the same?

[A]

Yeah. As far as you're saying, like, the. The following and fan bases. Yeah. I mean, I think the loyal. The loyal community that has, like, stayed with me since day one, like, those who come to my page and DM me and comment on my stuff, they have been incredibly loyal and so kind, and they say the sweetest things and so welcoming to Catherine. And the critics are always going to be critics, right?

[B]

Like, they're always.

[A]

It doesn't matter which way you move. They'll always have an opinion. You do this, you do that. They'll always. And that's just the nature of having some form of public spotlight.

[C]

And you just ride or die for you. I mean, your community has now become mine.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And the thing with the Bachelor fans, they are so ingrained and so loving.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And I think that, like, a lot of people before, they followed me for my beauty stuff. But your guys's community, it's different. Like, they really care about, like, your Life.

[B]

Yeah. Well, I mean, I hope so, but, you know, sometimes I wish they'd care less.

[A]

Well, I think the thing is, like, the. The platform is a derivative of showcasing your life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. Hearing about your family and meeting your family and hearing about your hardships and your losses and your successes, and so building your community. That's it. That's it. And yeah, obviously, like, without them, this podcast doesn't happen. Right?

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And so without them, you know, maybe you don't be able to make the impact that you are with your books.

[B]

St. James, too.

[A]

And St. James.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, like, it's all. It's truly a blessing noise. And honestly, it's like. It's. It's like your story about the stones. It's like, you know what? When you're in this world, there's going to be stones.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, like, don't collect those stones. Just understand people are allowed to have opinions. That's okay. And you can continue to be yourself. And those who support you will support you. And those who don't, won't anyway. And happy. And happy.

[B]

Amen.

[C]

So on. On the Internet and dealing with that longer than you both.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And I learned the hard way.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Not take things literally.

[A]

Exactly.

[C]

It doesn't matter.

[A]

It doesn't matter.

[B]

Live your life well.

[A]

We gotta wrap with a trading secret. I need one from each of you. So one trading secret. Jade, you want to go first?

[C]

I'll have you go first, Michael.

[A]

A1 trading secret. What can you leave us? Whether could be from your story, your life, your current situation, what's coming next, or things you've learned along the way.

[B]

And it's financial.

[A]

It could be anything.

[B]

All right. My training secret is something I said earlier, which is instead of focusing on what you want to attain to make give you a happy life, think about what you don't want to regret and work backwards. And I think it'll give you a visualization of where you should spend your time and where your priorities should go so that you don't spread yourself too thin.

[A]

I love it. It's a great trading secret. Jade, what can you leave us with?

[C]

I would say mine is a little bit more business focused. If you have a dream, if something keeps coming to you like an idea, and you think that it can be something that is worth really working for. Bet on yourself. Because that's what I did with myself every time that I wanted to create something, and it really touched a lot of people's lives. And there can be different ways of celebrating success, whether it be connecting finance Whatever. But for me, I feel like all of my businesses were a success because they were rooted in believing in myself, regardless of how hard it would be. So don't stop.

[B]

Get it, get it.

[A]

No, I love it. And I think the tricks here I learned from you guys is throw out the word conventional right there is like you want to write a book. Doesn't have to be in a year and six months. It could be in five years. You could do it your way. Just start. You know, you have a marriage, it doesn't work out, and you want to leave to choose yourself, choose yourself and continue to choose yourself. And you want to go from skin care, beauty, esthetician, salon in Hollywood to Akan, because your heart and gut tells it. Do it, you know, do it your way and no one else. I love it.

[B]

Yeah. Right, let's go.

[A]

Well, we're going to buy a copy of your book. We're going to give it away, guys. Give us five stars. Let us know your biggest takeaway from Michael A. And Jade, and we will pick someone next week to give that away. But for everyone else, that doesn't win. Where can they find your book?

[B]

You can find it online. The Wild Heart Grows dot com.

[A]

All right, and where can everyone find everything both you two have going on? Jade, we'll start with you.

[C]

Johnny Complexions.com, which is my skincare line. And then social media, JD waiting 180.

[A]

And Michael A. Where can they find you?

[B]

Michael Alio L4.

[A]

I love it. Michael, Jade, congratulations on all your happiness.

[B]

Let's do it.

[A]

Thank you for being on Training Secrets.

[B]

Let's double date soon.

[A]

Double date soon.

[B]

Making that money, money Living that dream Making that money, money

[A]

Making that money Living that dream.