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Trading Secrets
304. Maks Chmerkovskiy: Dancing With The Stars, Losing Money, Building Businesses & The Work Ethic Behind It All
00:57:20
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Maxim Chirakovsky
Foreign.
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Host
Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets.
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Co-Host
Today we are joined by a world
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Host
renowned dancer, entrepreneur, and one of the most recognizable faces in the ballroom of dance, Maxim Chirakovsky. Max rose to global fame as a standout on Dancing with the Stars where he intensely and authentically brought his talent to make him an absolute fan favorite for over a decade. Beyond the ballroom, he's built businesses and empires all through dance studios, live tours and media ventures. We'll talk about that while continuing to evolve as an entrepreneur and performer. And I'll tell you what, Max, while you're not on the ballroom and Dancing with the Stars any longer, your voice is heard from loud in the parks. It feels like every season you are in the mix. My man. Welcome to Trading Secrets. Thanks for coming on.
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Maxim Chirakovsky
I, I mean, every time, every time, it's not. I, I don't know. Listen, I'm used to all of that and especially introductions and all that. I always opt if it's like a private event, hey, we're gonna introduce. I'm like, can I just walk out, introduce myself? But I appreciate it. This is. Every time you get one of these and you, like, you look back, it's almost like a mini resume, if you will. And what I like is that I think I keep doing enough stuff to offset some of the dumb things I've done early in the career. So it seems like those things are gone away and now the verb is changed. It went from whatever that was to, you know, passion, whatever you said, passionately expressive. You know what I mean? No, I like it. Thank you for that. I appreciate it.
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Host
Yeah, no, truly, it's my pleasure. I always come into interviews prepared with the direction I want to go. And then we have conversation like this and I go into a conversation that is sparked from what you just said. But when you say that, obviously you're now it's intense, now it's passionate. Those are the words. But before you had mentioned, I had done some dumb stuff in my early days. Like, when you think about it, was the dumb stuff actually dumb or was it just a result of how intense and passionate you are about this career? And it just took more time to be involved in the space. Like, how would you define that dumb stuff? And how have you grown from it and was it actually dumb?
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Maxim Chirakovsky
Yeah, easy. I mean, it's easy for me to define it now because I'm a father of three little boys that I now see kind of like go through their, you know, shapings and, you know, solidifying their emotions. And I can see that they're going to be completely three different human beings. Right. So, you know, what is the expectation is that in certain ages of your growing growth, whatever development, both physically, mentally, emotionally, there's certain expectations. We expect, I don't know, our 9, 10 year olds to start talking back. We expect our teenagers to be crazy, you know, and just chaotic. We expect a young adult to be what I think, passionate, driven, you know, with incredible work ethic and, and hopefully with direction. Right. Like they know is if they know where they're going and they have a plan, you know, and I think I was all of those things, you know, and so like, I keep going back and forth as an adult with a lot of, you know, now everybody has a commentary and an access for me to hear their comments. Right. Yeah, I do sit back and I do consider, you know, public opinion on certain things and, but over a period of time and looking at it not from like yesterday, I told Len Goodman to retire and what, what am I feeling like today? But, you know, 10 plus years later, 15, whatever it has been to see where I'm today and who I am today and how that represented me at the time when I was all of those things. I was young, I was passionate, I was driven, I was directed by, you know, my background and also a lot of work, work, work, nothing but work. And, you know, I was just trying to get somewhere. And yeah, along the way, if you sprint and you do it consistently, if you trip up, as long as you get up and you keep sprinting, you know, so I think that that's what kind of. I can always fall back on. Yeah, you did some dumb things, but damn, man, you kept getting up and kept sprinting. And I'm like, you know, thank you, thank you to that guy because today I get to, you know, reap the benefits.
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Host
Yeah, it's like a blessing and a curse. The same fire that got you so far in life to keep getting up when you got knocked down. It's kind of the same fire that might have got you in trouble once or twice, but I feel like 100% every professional has that. So it's like you don't want to remove it because that's your special sauce, but also your special sauce might get you into situations where you got to navigate and literally dance a little bit. Let's talk about this, though. I want to go. We'll go back to your early childhood and coming to the States and what your professional career aspirations were, what it looked like from monetization standpoint before we do that. What's happened with Dancing with the Stars in the last two years from my vantage point is it's really unbelievable. It needs to be studied by, like Harvard. Something has happened where the social currency of this show, which has always been pretty prevalent with a little bit of an older audience, has now Storm. Gen Z, Storm. Social currency. There's an argument to say that the pros are now becoming the stars. I own an agency. We do a lot of deals. We just sourced a deal working on Panera side. And the first people that they wanted to work with was Val and Jenna. And we worked, of course, through their management, did it all and brought it to life. But the biggest companies and the biggest places are now wanting to work with the actual pros at high, big paid dollar numbers. What has happened in the last two years that has created this trajectory?
- [05:48]
Maxim Chirakovsky
Dancing with the Stars is a perfect project. I don't think it's, you know, it wasn't a secret why it works. Ballroom is just interesting enough and intriguing enough and has all the elements of dance, physicality, you know, the drama and all that stuff leading up to rehearsal. But dance aside, right, the element that made it work is the, is the, is the celebrity. You know, the celebrity is, you know, our show was able to scratch that meaning of that word from what we were accustomed to, where, you know, unless you're an A list with a name, why are you even there? Right to now where social media took over so much. The general media fell apart. Is falling apart. We don't longer have, you know, five network channels that everybody watches and maybe this CA show called hbo because we're all intrigued, right? No, now we're watching it completely different. We're consuming media completely differently. So Dancing with the Stars was the perfect project that if you cast it right, you're gonna survive the times. You're gonna survive the changes of the, you know, sort of media guard. You're gonna survive the changes of media itself. Everybody wants to watch Dancing with the Stars. It is the only show on air that you can watch with four generations. You and I both went through some similar reality TV background, right. So I did that show as well. Right. So that's, that's limited. Everything that we see that people come from to Dancing with the Stars, they all come and bring their media with them, their fan base with them. And so if you keep putting these things in the pot long enough, what's going to happen is. And I'm going to give you a simple example, I have a finger and a pulse of popularity of the show and my personal, you know, sort of currency where I am in airports, it's very easy for me. I fly extremely often, you know, for all kinds of my businesses, and we fly all the time. So every time I'm in the airport, I see what. The show dipped in ratings because people come up and like, oh, you that guy from Fuller House. Right? Fuller House. I'm like, I did two episodes. I did 17 seasons on Dancing with the Stars. So I saw that moment, and then I see another moment where this lady comes up to me. She has a couple of kids with her, and so she's of certain age. I can already see that. She's like, oh, my God, you're Max. And, you know, I've been watching you with my grandma ever since I was a kid. And I'm like, lady, I am. Geez Louise. I'm like, first of all, thanks for showing me my age. But also, this is crazy. And so that hit me. I'm like, that girl that was watching this was her favorite grandma, you know, and now grandma passed away. She has her kids. That's the pastime she knows. That was the most wholesome, the most. You know, one of the most. But you know what I'm saying, Like, it was a very kind of dear time for her, and she's now passing it on. Dancing with the Stars is here forever. I hate to say it to all the haters out there, but we ain't going nowhere, because this is now time where the granddaughters are growing up. And then finally, I mean, you. You. They identified that TikTok is a star. They identified TikTok being its own platform with its own fan base. They wanted that fan base, and they did the best thing possible. They've invited the TikTok celebrities, the a listers, if you will, and they brought it all in. And I think last season just blew it out of the water. I think Whitney and Mark was so sensational and spectacular and all of the things, and also kind of scandalous and everything. I think it was the resurgence of what we had back in the day. And hopefully this next season is gonna be that alley season. We call it Rest in Peace. But that's sort of like that, as we know. It was the peak of back then, you know, of Dancing with the Stars wave that I was part of.
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Host
I love it. I got a million questions from you just from that answer. But the first one that comes to mind with Whitney and Mark, you see that they're just crushing records at Chicago revenue, records that have never been done by Anybody on Broadway, which is just a. That concept is crazy. You have someone who, two years ago, we didn't know who she was on TikTok. She started blowing up. They go to one reality show and now she's breaking every single box office record for a Broadway show and a hit that's been around for decades, like Chicago. But what's also different is just yesterday Mark was starring in his first show with her. Is to me that Mark is the man. I'm obsessed with Mark. I love his artistry. I think he's a great guy, great husband, good dude and a hell of a professional. But is in your year 17 seasons, have you. Did you see things like that where a dancer would actually go star on a Broadway show because of the success of the previous season?
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Maxim Chirakovsky
I mean, yeah, I did that. You know, I think.
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Host
What show were you on?
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Maxim Chirakovsky
Oh, the little show called Burn the Floor where I met my wife, also Shawna Burgess, also Sasha Farber, also a bunch of other pros that Emma Slater and bunch of pros that we come to love. But look, that's the point. Is it? Right? So we've done 20 years of this and at the end of the 20 years, where are we? And if we're gonna sort of like look back at it. First of all, I just want to put it out there. Mark Ballas is not spring chicken when it comes to Broadway.
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Host
This dude played, you know, he's done it before.
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Maxim Chirakovsky
You know, he's done high level productions. He's a triple threat, always has been. And the fact that we. And I'm gonna attach myself now to like Mark's coattails as well as the entirety of our. Of us, the dancers that have always, you know, done our best to, to, you know, diversify, to be bigger, to be more than just a cha cha, you know, I mean, there's few of us. Derek is a, you know, leading man in our industry in that sense. You know, I did couple of things I'm very proud of. Two Broadway runs, Forever Tango, Attachment and Burn the Floor. So, you know, I don't sing, so that part of me is just not going to happen. But, you know, we also. I'm looking at acting opportunities and stuff. I've been proud of us, you know, of our kind, you know, and this is just Dancing with the Stars personnel. There are a lot of dancers out there that have, you know, many Zieglers of this world and you know, that have done incredible things and have created careers and also created opportunities for others. Right. They're, they're pop Superstars who come from our world, you know, we all know who they are. So my point is, you know, it's been, we've been converting, if I may, for a long time. It's just we are now getting the attention that I think dance world has always deserved. But you know, to be honest, we've always had that attention. I've also had was privy to an incredible interaction with somebody like John Travolta, you know, and we spoke about that. Like this has been a period of time when dance was king. You know, we go all the way back to Frank Sinatra days with Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly's. Right. And then it was a little dip. Then we came back with John Travolta's and his era of dance movies. And then we followed up with, you know, Dirty Dancing which is another like, oh my God. And sort of did another push. And Patrick Swayze was our guy. He was a ballet dancer with dance mom who had a dance studio. Like we own these people in that sense. You know, we like, we hold on to them. So, you know, if we continue that lineage and you know, Mark Ballas is next and Derek is next and you know, I'll have a step, you know, dip my toe in there. Val and Jenna obviously still, you know, very much Dancing with the Stars royalty. But you know, we'll, we'll hopefully have their, their chance and their opportunities. I mean, you know, I hope, I hope we all continue doing that.
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Host
Yeah, it's unbelievable. I mean, the show's taken over, but like you said, dance has always been such a major masterpiece of, of art.
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Maxim Chirakovsky
But, but not to, but not to diminish it. Mark, I want to give him his flowers. Like he's, he's that dude. You know, he's also, we're also very proud of the fact that, you know, he, Julianne as well, by the way, another name. So he, Julianne and Derek, they do have that background. They have that theater background, the musical theater background. So to see him, you know, shine, Mark has always been that man. He's always gonna, would have been, you know, the starting role and for him, that character, the Flynn character in the way they presented, you know, their original, I think they did Chicago piece on her Dancing with Star C. I mean I literally said that. I mean that there's the audition and there's that winning, winning audition and if the show is watching, it's like a no brainer. I hope she got a call literally right then and there. You know,
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Host
I think she did. Yeah. We had, we Had Mark on the show. And like you said, his. I mean, his resume of everything from being in England to his predecessors with his mother, to acting in Harry Potter. I mean, it is composer, writer, singer, a pure artist. And I feel like, yeah, the resume of every pro at this point is getting so. So electric, so elite that the people on this show. Is it fair. Is it. Is it fair to say, like, if you're a pro on Dancing with the Stars, this is. This is the. Like, if you're a hockey player, it's NHL. It's like, you know, you're playing in the NFL, football player in the final. Like, is Dancing with the Stars the. Would you say the premium, the top of the top, like the hall of Famers, right? In the society of the industry of dance.
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Maxim Chirakovsky
I mean, it's. It's probably the. The best dance job that you can get. And I don't mean forever. I mean, for. There's a period of time when this is the. Something that you want to be a part of if you're a dancer growing up. And so we see that also because there's a huge uptick of non ballroom dancers just really working hard in the background. Because I'm always also privy to, you know, seeing some of the, you know, leading dance studios in Los Angeles, New York, and, you know, the Metropolis areas. And I see that, you know, you have these, you know, young talent that is obviously with. And we know who they are. They come from a very elite dance background elsewhere, but they're now trying to get the ballroom background, trying to really understand it and really study it. And so I would be. I'm. I'm happy to. We're gonna be privy to some of that type of dance talent in the future, but that's why. And I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna touch on it or say the names, but that's why I talk shit when the show comes out. I'm like, I just can't keep this to myself. In the opinion about the integrity of this type of process. Like, let me be the guy that keeps pulling it this way, keeps making sure that it's. Yes, the show is fantastic, but it's only fantastic because there's maintenance going on. We keep trying to have the, you know, when Val leaves, right? And Jenna may be coming up to, like, the. The. The days that she's no longer Danny and Pasha, like, who's taking over. Who is the next, you know, Val and Jenna in this point, or Danny and Pasha when they're no longer there, like, who Is that next person, these next people. Right. So I feel like that's important that, that we preserve that and so it doesn't become all the pros will. Then you're not going to be hired on your talent but you're going to be hired on, on some sort of like social media currency. Like that shouldn't happen. You know, we should be able to open these doors for high level ballroom trained professional talent to develop the next Val, the next Mark, the next, you know, the next Derek. I think that that's what we need to do.
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Host
I was going to say you kind of already alluded to it there and without saying any names or getting into any headline nonsense, just the reality, the business brain. If you're on like the head of the board of directors for casting and you have to bring in the next, you have to bring in like and you're, you're, I could see you like Simon Cowell. You're the guy that would rip everyone apart. No, no, no, no. What is the criteria? Like some they, they bring a next dancer on to be a pro. What is the criteria that Max would say? This is what they should adhere to and here's why.
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Maxim Chirakovsky
I mean it has to start with foundation. It has to be simple. You have to be a ballroom professional. You have to have go, you know, levels of understanding why the cha cha is the way it is. And it's so important because the element of it is not just you doing it. I never ever will say that someone that comes from non ballroom background cannot do what we do. That's never what my comments are. My comments are about the other parts of Dancing with the Stars job. You are a coach. You are a, not just a coach but you are a specialist in, in, in adopting the cha cha. If we're talking about that and making it like just fingerprint identity for that specific person, right? And so then that couple becomes that, right? So if I get Kirsty Alley, I teach her the Kirsty Alley, right? And I'm only bringing up myself as examples. But then when I get Meryl Davis, I teach. My church is different, you know. And so that's what I want. I want a professional that has that foundation. But then, you know, where we come from, we come from a unique background and a mix of things that happened. You know, some of us also had this sort of intercontinental migration. I come from somewhere else. Mark and Derek and Julianne had experience somewhere else as well. So we had this sort of melting pot of education and background that also very important, right. So you have to try to. If I. And by the way, I think casting is doing a fantastic job. Shout out Gina Katz. She doesn't need any help, especially not mine. But if I were to say, I would say, look, this few boxes that needs to be checked out and they have to be, they have to start with Ballroom Foundation. It can be something you just, you know, spend a couple of months, you learned you are fantastic enough mover in some other way so you make it look decent, but you're not educating somebody. And that, that's very important to me.
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Host
Yeah, that's a hell of an answer. And yeah, shout out to D. Day Katz. I know she also casts, I believe for Traders too, amongst many other shows. I think she's probably one of the best, best casters in the business.
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Maxim Chirakovsky
She's gotta have a, she has to have a, you know, an Emmy room by now.
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Host
I feel like she should not. Yeah. Not like a little office, a whole freaking room. But you know what? We talked a little bit about Mark Ballas. Last time he was on the show was right after he was a judge on the show. When he came in for the week to be a judge, I asked him, listen, the show's cranking right now. Would you ever go back and be a pro? He said, no. You're, you're. You've been on the 17 seasons of Dancing Star Champion, season 18. We already heard you talk about the success right now. Like, it ebbs, it flows, but right now it's ripping and roaring. You've seen on previous headlines, I read that that ship has sailed. But has that ship sailed? And if so, why? If you're a business guy, like, this is the time to cash in. It's.
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Maxim Chirakovsky
Yeah.
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Host
Why wouldn't you think about going back?
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Maxim Chirakovsky
I think so that. Look, I also live in a very strange generation. I have not seen a 46 year old, you know, be dominant in any kind of format that has to do with movement. Right. Because usually by now you've gone away far enough that you are now, you know, educational, professional. You're now something else. You some, some other things. And so for a very long time, like I'm, I'm not the guy to just like have this spawn on me and tomorrow I can't dance. Right. So I try to lay the tracks and foundation that I don't want to depend on the past career at some point where I can't do it anymore. But I've been saying this for 15 years. At the same time, I've been working really hard to maintain the Fitness level and physicality. And so every time this something comes around and I have this incredible opportunity, you know, to dance with Val. We were in Napa, we put on a great show, we spent three months. It was a high level professional dance. I'm like, damn, you could still do it. Then thoughts come back, right? So the. My answer was always based on the fact I'm just old and can I do it? But I've done, you know, enough life over the past 10 years. Plus I have my kids, plus I've settled down, down into my flow and you know, I know how to regulate a lot of work, right? And also parenting and also being a husband and also have all these other responsibilities. So today, you know, it seems like, it seems like you said, if there's an opportunity and it makes sense, why not, right? But I just can't, I can't say it. I've said it so many times. I'm like, no, bro, no, this. It's just an, you know, maybe, maybe it's already like, it's so far sailed. But again, you know, if the opportunity presents itself and it's a great opportunity, you know, I would love to probably still come out and say, hey, yeah, man, now I have so much more to. You know, I do want to see myself perform. I do want to see if I can do it. This is a very freaking difficult job. People think from the outside it looks easy. This is a 24 7, three months straight. You don't see your family, you see them in odd hours. May, maybe, you know, Peter and I were on a show together. We kept passing each other for two. We were in the same building. We didn't see each other and we had a kid and it was insane. So it just has to be a great opportunity. I really want to judge, I really want to contribute to that part of, part of the show. If it's not in the cards, fine. If in the cards is a participation and say, hey, you know, come back, be a pro and see what it looks like. Like I can't sign a 10 year deal, it's just absurd, right? It doesn't even sound right. But if the opportunity presents itself and it's great, like I said, I'll, I'll probably, I'll probably think about it.
- [24:31]
Co-Host
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- [26:04]
Host
All right, I'm here pushing for it. I'm advocating for it. LeBron's 41, man. You're 40. When you say 46, like that's fine. You could do this. You've done it. Let's go.
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Maxim Chirakovsky
Yo. I'm not doubting myself. I'm not doubting myself. That's why I'm like, I'm putting it out like that. I can't. I just hate that I'm giving long answers. It should be a sound bite. Yes or no? I don't know. I just don't know. I can't. I would love to say yes and then be like, hey, and then we're going to skyrocket to other opportunities. I have fantastic life. I have fantastic opportunities. I have a lot of work ahead of me in the ones that I have and I welcome that work. And I go and I. And I do put out monumental efforts just physically. But you know, dance has always been there and because it's still available to me, that's why I'm hesitant. If it wasn't available to me, it would have been easier to answer. Yeah, my legs don't work. I can't do it. But I got fantastic legs. I'm about to go Work out. I have incredible, you know, flow of things and maintenance and sort of consistency and I just want to see how long I can do it. We have some fantastic announcements with PETA coming up and maybe that'll satisfy both sides us in our output and what we actually want to do and the audience in like, you know what we want to see you do xyz. So maybe that'll satisfy some things. But yeah, Dancing with the Stars is not going anywhere and I feel like for some reason we're not going anywhere with its association. Although people don't understand. I haven't been on dancing star since 2019. It's been a long time and people don't get it.
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Host
So you know, it's, it's, it's what's, what's really a testament to you is that you haven't been on since 2019 but every season you're, you're a main character in the show. Like whether you're on the TV or not, you are.
- [28:00]
Maxim Chirakovsky
I gotta give it to you, you're a fantastic interview. This is also, and maybe I'm, I'm, you know, I've have, I've been having too many little kids so I'm not really pick paying attention. But you're a great interview and this has been an awesome back and forth and you should definitely continue this. You're doing fantastic and I would support you and I hope you're doing amazing. But what a great way that you keep interacting about that. You have the background and an understanding of what we actually did and that's why you see and your questions like yo, look at you guys, look at, look at you guys. Right? And so we don't want to pat our own back. The pros, the, you know, the, the ones that were there from beginning, some of us stuck around. I'm also proud of that. I really am. I, I, it's not with like I'm not being vain or, or, or self. But I'm proud that back from the, from the career of this show is about someone else to now we are. That's also the names that people, people associate their sort of love for dance with or you know, they love us personally for whatever the you know, brand of Max or brand Max and Peter together or Val or whoever it is, we're still here and we're doing it well and you know, we represent right things and I hope I represent, you know, a great father and sometimes I fail at that, you know, at home. But I'm doing my best. I hope I represent you Know, a great husband, you know, because again, I. It's. It's not easy, but I'm doing my best, Peter. And I blinked and it's 13 years later, you know, and so, like, it's so much. It's so much happening. So we're very proud of that. We pray, you know, we. We do understand it, you know, just not in my nature to talk about that. It's just I'm about work and, you know, being busy.
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Host
I get it. I, like, look at looking forward, not backward. But one thing that you blink and it comes is if you go back to the. The early 90s, right, that's when you guys came from Ukraine to Brooklyn. And now it's been over 30 years. And you think about when you came here and the championships you've won, right? Like US National Latin Champion, World Championship finalist. Your list is long. Of all the success you've had in the 30 years we talk money on this podcast and career, what has surprised you the most financially from where you've started to where you are now? Being in the space of dance in the United States, bro, I'm.
- [30:30]
Maxim Chirakovsky
I'm one of the lucky ones. I mean, there was a book outlier, you know, everybody knows if they don't. I don't know. It was a very easy read. Michael My Caldwell, right? Malcolm Calder. And it really set. It's a very sort of easy way to just focus your attention on. Sometimes it isn't about, you know, the talent. It's also about other things. Sometimes it's not about other things, but, you know, it's about. But sometimes also about the place and the time and sort of taking the opportune moment somehow, after being not very, you know, good for up for first 10 years of my dance life, I immigrated. And it was such a traumatic. Just a big event in life. I was insane. I didn't speak English. This wasn't like people come nowadays where everybody seemed to, like, be a person of the world and doesn't matter where we. You know what I mean? We weren't that. We were very much rooted in our town and we left because, oh, by the way, you know, family with two boys would inevitably see their boys be enlisted and then fight somebody's war. And this is exactly what's happening with Ukraine right now. So. But again, not to go there. That's why my parents made this. Our parents made this, you know, move that they didn't want to see that they wanted to see opportunity. And so we landed with no money, no prospects, and kind of like okay, what do we do now? And the opportunity presented itself. There was no ballroom dance in the United States. Brooklyn specifically became the center point where all these young immigrants came to and brought dance with them. That particular type of dance. And that's where it spawned and it grew from there. And the. The Max and the Val of this world came from that wave of immigrants. The Pasha and the Daniel of this world also have to do with that side of Brooklyn. We all grew up together. And so, like, you see these professionals that for the last 20 years, you know, make up a core group, and they keep coming from that sort of very small place outside of Utah. It's either Utah with the Derricks and, you know, Julianne's of this world and everybody else that are coming, Jenna and everybody in between and Brooklyn. And so we. We're also very proud of that. But I believe that I was at the right place, right time, right decade, you know, right body type, I don't know, right opportunity. And then all I knew by then is just work. And that was the best sort of combination of things. Everything else fell in. Into place.
- [33:13]
Host
When did you start to realize, like, it all fell into place, but, like, when did, like, what was that moment? I think we all kind of have that moment. You either get a big paycheck or you sign a big contract that you're like, shit like that. That just changed. Changed things for me for a little bit. What was that moment for you in your career?
- [33:27]
Maxim Chirakovsky
Buy my house. You know, I had an apartment that I already bought that I thought was like the most incredible feat on earth is just being able to gather some money and buy property. And it just blew my. That moment. I gave that apartment to my parents and I bought myself a house. That was bananas and above my. Definitely above my need at that time. But it felt like that was my. You know, I also made a lot of money that year. And by the way, this is for all the kids out there listening. I did the same thing that everybody else does when they fall into. Into money. I kept working, but I did not at all, not for a second gave it any. Any attention. And it went right through my hands. So it wasn't like, you know, I did all the right things. I did all the right things according to life, according to, you know, my community, you know what I mean, like, people around me. But I definitely, you know, had my moments with. With money, because you guys talk about that here. And it took me a while to get out of these moments and, you know, and sort of like, look back and appreciate that I did seize all those opportunities and I did. And they did result in that type of. And financial gain as well. Right. But there's more to life than just work and earn. You have to also know how to keep. Right. And that's another side of adulting that again, I, you know, it took a little, a little while for me to get to that point. I think the moment of realization that, you know, I personally made it, it wasn't me realizing. It was more like, you know, my, for example, my dad's comment, you know, I did a lot of other stuff that isn't really public knowledge and the social media isn't big in those days, but I did like, I was a director for Le Rev at the Wynynn Hotel for eight years. I was privy to incredible opportunities and events in that space as well. And I remember my dad seeing La Rev for the first time. And that was the first time that the show has integrated finally fully all my dance routines and my dance numbers. And I was one of the first, if not the first, to put ballroom into Cirque, like show water and all those elements. And my dad saw it for the first time, came out. I remember he had like teary eyed, and he's not the guy to speak that way, but he's like, look, you know, in his format, he's like, everything you may have done wrong up until this point, like, you've totally redeemed yourself. He was like, it's special and I'm proud of you. And I'm like, I'm tearing up a little because he's not that guy. We've won things, you know. He was like, great, are you practicing tomorrow? And I'm like, can we celebrate the trophy first? But no. So, yeah, that was the moment that I will never forget because it was a big deal for me to hear it from somebody who is a big deal for me to hear anything from. It's been fun.
- [36:23]
Host
Badass. That's bad. That's a good moment to have and never forget. I do want to just like drill down a little bit though, because the finance podcast, you can earn a lot. You can, you can create such value within your own entity that you become such a hot commodity and that'll bring in cash flow. But to your point, you got to keep the cash and then make money on the cash. What were some of the things that you were doing that was falling through? Was it just crazy spending? What type of spending? Like, what actually happened that you weren't actually accumulating it?
- [36:52]
Maxim Chirakovsky
And what was yeah, no, I, I think it was the, is the, the misunderstanding that, you know, money, when they come, they, they don't necessarily produce other money. Like, you have to then keep, keep, keep building, right? It's like you, you planted something and it grew. There shouldn't be a, an expectation that now it's going to keep growing every time. And all you have to do is just keep getting that whatever. So, like, we. I quickly realized that a entertainment industry is very fickle. In these things, nothing's forever. But before that, when you make a million dollars, let's call it that, you have to know how you make another million dollars next year, you know, because if you're going to adjust your. Especially if you adjust your lifestyle, if you're going to adjust your lifestyle in any way, because now look at that check we're balling. Everybody's rich. Everybody. We going out. We're going to celebrate. What are you celebrating? You're going to celebrate 20 left, maybe that you have, that you're gonna have. By the time the check is gone, the party's over, right? And then somebody comes knocking and say, okay, so you owe us X amount of percentage of that, right? And that's called taxes. And so, like, it's not something that I didn't pay attention to in economics class in, in the university. No, it's something that you just need a life lesson. And my life lesson was very expensive. It was very slow because I didn't even see it coming. It wasn't like an overnight thing. And there was a lot to deal with, you know, in the middle of life, in the middle of a lot of other things. But I'm also this guy. I'm like, you know, I remember I jumped off Dancing with the Stars. It was so important to me not to be made to have to do it and to be able to do other things. It was just important for my personality. Like, I felt, you know, like I needed to have some freedom. And because my dance space and TV was completely blocked for me, I went and I started a restaurant in Austin, Texas. I've. I've never been to Austin by then, but I did a lot of steps and I done a lot of things ahead of my time. And so I started a restaurant. I lost a lot of money. It never opened. It went all the way up to creating a kitchen. I have a book about this big with every nail and the color and an item of, of the space. I have the book of the, the menu. I mean, it was, it was just a lot, but that's me, that's my personality. So, you know, I'm never look back and say that was a fail. I'm going to look back and say possibly ahead of my time, possibly, you know, without seeing the, knowing what the end looks like, you know, but also I'm going to look back and say, damn man, you're brave. You know, you did some stuff that I'm not today. I'm not going to, I'm not going to even look in that direction. But the fact that I have that experience of, of, of jumping and throwing myself into things full all the way, I'm just like, you know, I can't look at that as a failure. I'm looking at it as an incredible experience. Experience in that space.
- [40:03]
Host
I feel like that's a lot of your life. Like I feel like a lot of your life mantras like I move 100 miles an hour full speed ahead and if I have to ask for forgiveness or learn a lesson, I'll learn the lesson. But I'm not going to learn the lesson unless I go full speed ahead. So I'm going to continue to go full speed ahead and clearly it's worked.
- [40:18]
Maxim Chirakovsky
I try. Appreciate it. Yeah, I learned somebody told me ask forgiveness, not permission. And I'm like, I ran with that a little too far. We'll see how, how much?
- [40:27]
Host
We talk numbers here a little bit because we can learn through lessons and numbers. How much did you lose on the restaurant?
- [40:33]
Maxim Chirakovsky
Oh, I lost, I lost. You know, I had a fantastic lease agreement because I was going out to real estate conventions for a bunch of years and I would go to like one in Vegas, one in Jacob Javits center in New York and I would go twice a year. I would make real estate deals for my dance studios. I've been in rooms that would pull out a map and it's a management company that manages millions of commercial real estate space around the country. And they would just point out at some. I love looking at demographics reports. I love looking at where through expanding our dance studio company and because we are 14 in eight states and when we expanded into Texas, most of us have never even been to Texas. So that's how I was able to make these real estate deals. I got a really prime space for my restaurant. My restaurant was going to be a high end all day breakfast, if you must know, with a golden champagne line. But this is going to happen at the time when I have enough to feed through myself and not be dependent on circumstantial situations. I think it was like $175,000 just for the breaking of the lease. And I think there was just a lot of other, you know, a lot of other. Yeah, it was a lot. Yeah.
- [41:49]
Host
Good learning lessons, though.
- [41:50]
Maxim Chirakovsky
Great learning.
- [41:52]
Host
Great learning lessons. And again, that's why you talk about money. Because, like, there. Right now, there could be someone that listens to this. It's like thinking about investing in a restaurant because they heard your story, they might rethink it or do something differently, and they might save a couple bucks along the way. So I feel like through numbers, we can learn a lot. A lot of people say in this space that, like, once you're. We talked a little bit about this since 2019, and now you're still a main character in the cast, even though you're not on tv. But there's a lot of misconceptions out there that once you're off tv, financial success goes down because you can only make it if you're on tv. Have you found that financial success? If you look at, like, your income year over year, has it gone down since. Since leaving Dancing with the Stars? And if not, what are some things you've done from a business perspective to keep it moving in the right direction?
- [42:37]
Maxim Chirakovsky
I mean, so one thing I was never privy to is to start a business with a lot of funding. We've never done that. We've always done everything out of pocket. And it was very kind of bootstrapping our dance studios out of pocket, basically. And, you know, we have celebrated a 20th anniversary right now. We're fully set up corporate structure. We, you know, have few steps ahead of us. By the end of the year, we're gonna. We're gonna be, you know, doing other things. But, you know, from personnel, from. From. From the, you know, instructors who've become, you know, regional directors and now company part owners, I mean, like, it. I'm very proud of us to also open doors for a lot of people to learn business, to be successful, to, you know, to grow with us. My vodka company right now, same thing. It's very. It's. It's out of pocket and bootstrap. It's me and my partner. I personally felt like I'm gonna be more proud of how hard it was when it went at the end, you know, and it's not like I don't want all of a sudden a bag of money to fall on my head. You know, I would love that, but it's never been my history. I've never been that guy. I've never, you know, I feel like I've won a lot life lottery, but everybody keeps telling me it's about the journey, not the destination. So, yeah, I want the money and I want it now. And I want security life. I want a buffer zone where I. I can also just go and, you know, watch my kids grow. Because that stuff is something I don't want to blink on. But it's not my journey. It's just never been my thing. My thing was always like, what is hard? It's grinding. But now both Peter and I, we have. She's doing so much with her beauty line. Peter, Jane, beauty. And I'm so proud of watching her getting goosebumps because we don't see each other. She's behind me right now, working out, and she's gonna go because. And I can't, you know, we're gonna intersect for a second in Interact, and then she's gonna go about her day, which is even busier than mine. So, you know, watching us do this, I'm just even more proud of us, you know, because it's so hard because you can't see the grind. Because people think that we. Oh, my God, you guys, everything's perfect. Look at the family you put out on social media. We are perfect. But. But it's not easy at all, you know, and we're perfect because it's so hard because we don't have the freaking assistance and 100 people around us and it's not easy for us to just press play and then just edit that video and put it out. It's so difficult. It's so hard. We have three freaking babies running around. It's nuts. But people don't see that. And I love that. So at the end of the day, I will be proud of how we got here. And by the way, she keeps the shirt. You know, I'm both guys in this shirt. And that's what I'm proud of. I've done the knocking out and I've been knocked out and. But bro, you never, you know, I'm. I'm both of these guys. By the way, Muhammad Ali and I shared the same birthday.
- [45:36]
Host
Oh, that's pretty badass. No, I think you're, you're bang on. Like, that's. If you're not self aware enough in life to realize you've got your ass kicked and you've kicked ass, then I think you need, like, just, you need more looking in the mirror, because that's the story of it. And I think you touched on something really important. Like, especially in today's society with our Phones and social media. We idolize a lot of these powerhouse couples, but the moving dynamics behind powerhouse couples, it's. It's extreme. Like, you and your wife and Peter, you're both so independent. You're both so strong with your brands. You're both so good at what you do. You work in your own lane while working in a family lane, while working in the lane. For the millions of people that watch your social media and hear you guys on your podcast past, it's a lot of moving parts. And I think it's good that you bring awareness to that, because I think people only see the glitz and glam of it. They don't see, like, the hustle, the grind, the. The additional communication, sometimes the conflict of, like, okay, who's gonna watch the kids when I go pursue my career here and you're going here and getting on the same page, It's a lot to manage.
- [46:33]
Maxim Chirakovsky
It's an everyday thing. And I'm also like, my Capricorn and my freaking ocd. It's like, I would love the life where I'm like, I know for the next six months, everything that's coming up, my day, my week, my months and all that, but this is a chaos. Every day we wake up and Milan is. Hasn't slept. Oh, yeah, that's. I mean, here you go. You make plans for tomorrow, and then you spend the entire night not sleeping because one of them decided to have a, you know, a fit or a temperature fit or something, or he just doesn't want to sleep in his bed today. He wants to sleep with Mommy and only in this position. And if not, then he's just gonna start yelling. It's not up to me. Right? But the morning when we wake up, Peter and I look at each other, we're like. Our eyes are like this, and. And we realize that it's go time. It's not. It's never like, you know what? Let me take this morning. No, it's go time. But now go with 0 in your tank and absolutely not having slept. And by the way, that today I gotta go and do that show and that episode and do that thing, right? And so all of a sudden, my emotional state is also exhausted, right? And then. Please don't ask me that question, because I'm not in the state right now to answer the way I want to look back at it tomorrow. You know, it's amazing. It's. Again, I wouldn't have it any other way. We have calluses on our soul right now. That isn't making Us, you know, hardened people. But it's more like I'm a softy that knows how to get punched. You know, I got this. That I. No problem with that.
- [48:11]
Host
Yeah, I love it. Well, as we're wrapping up here, talk about calluses on your soul. In your profile you have Baranova 27, which is a non for profit for Ukraine humanitarian Fund. And I know you were in Ukraine in 2022. Give us a little bit of information as far as like what it was like being down there, what you're seeing today, and what anyone here can do
- [48:29]
Maxim Chirakovsky
to help, you know, because it's four years and it seems like it's become a little bit of a sort of like a normal thing, right? And every time I say this I get these comments of like, but talk to your politicians and you know, blah at times. I don't give a. About any of that. What I care about is that somebody dear to me who she and her kids are in Switzerland as immigrants still and you know, sounds Switzerland. They're in immigrants. And their father is in, in Ukraine and for the last four years. And he's an older man, you know, he's in his 50s, so he's not a 30 year old. When they have kids and they have like a 9 and a 12 year old. So that's that age of two boys and they speak every day. Anyway, so he got, he got stopped and pulled in a van and he's out in the war. And it's just so hard for me to understand, you know, because it's somebody, somebody I know. And it's been the case with that country and for, for four years and for a long time before that is just so unjust, you know, that people lose a debt. You know what we just spoke about the life experience that I'm having that you probably. We're having what A life experience. You know what? You know, my biggest problem is that, you know, Peter and I have different parenting styles. You know, biggest problem in life is like, he should eat. And she's like, you're crazy. Just let him do whatever. And I'm like, but kids have to have structure. And she's like, but they, you know, I'm just being like, just weird, stupid, like everyday stuff. And that's my biggest issue. And, and my biggest issue is hopefully my kids don't get sick. And I'm trying to, trying to make sure that, bro, somebody stopped you, pulled you out of the car, put you in a van and, and you're now going through a month and a Half quick, little, you know, hold the gun training protocol after which you're going to go into, into straight to the front. And in that brigade that he's a part of, he's. They're the ones that get thrown in. And I'm like, and it's not a movie, it's. It's actual situation. And so this person, and she's like, I can't talk to you, I'm gonna start crying. And I'm like, I. And, and you feel helpless, you feel hope, you know, hopeless, you know, so, so that's the reality. And so Abra Nova did a, did a, you know, a small splash in the moment. And you know, I wish this. Not a wish I could have done more or I could do more. It's like, I don't know what to wish for. I just wish it stops and ends right now. You know, I wish that it had. It doesn't have to happen at all, you know, but again, I'm. We're here being philosophers and, and all of that, but I think that the reality is, you know, just make sure that your experience of life. Somebody said, what is the key to happiness? And they're like, it's very simple. It's, you know, it's the quality of the passing of time. That's it. Quality of the passing of time. You take that and you multiply by, you know, if you're healthy, you have many problems. If you're not healthy, you have one problem. Like those two things, that's how I live a life at the moment. And what keeps me grounded and, and not give a. About social media comments is the fact that there's a reality that I'm very connected to that. I'm not gonna say it's, you know, I am, I'm not carrying that flag. But, but that was my conversation yesterday. And today after we're gonna hang up, I'm gonna figure out how to hit her up and again. Hey, how you doing today? If. You know. But what is this conversation about? Her husband is in war, you know, and, and she hasn't said the. To the kids and she. Because they keep saying good morning and good night every day. So it has been, it's been a week. So it's like I cannot imagine with my 9 year old right now not being able to have that interaction. He. He's such an empath and he's so sensitive and to these things. So like. And I see his eyes tearing up if I were to pass. Oh my God, this is too much. Families are still Separated. There's still millions that are, that are out of the country. Amanda's still hopeless inside of that country. It's still, it's still a disaster. And, and, and it needs to stop. And then there's going to be a huge rebuild and everybody's going to be thinking about this stuff. But again, generations are having a terrible life experience.
- [53:06]
Host
Yeah. Well, man, we are running low on time here, so I'm going to wrap with your trading secret. It's been awesome to talk to you. I got a million more questions for you, but we'll have to, we'll have to do it another time. But one trading secret. So everyone that comes on, they give us something that we can learn from your career experience, your finance experience, your life experience that you can't read in a textbook or learn on TikTok or from a professor, but that's specific to you. So, Max, what is your trading secret? What can you leave our listeners with?
- [53:32]
Maxim Chirakovsky
My trading secret is you can't outwork me. That's my secret. It's not, it's, it's not a secret. It's like whatever situation I'm in, if, if it's up, it's just, it's the work ethic, man. It has to go back. It's not my, it's not my pride. It's my, I'm proud of having that, but it's my parents. I'm not holding myself account, you know, with that pride. It's more on them, right? So they, I'm saying, like, my accomplishments are results of their efforts. My sons, I'm gonna take credit for. You better believe that I did that, you know, you know, you know, to extend. No, but I mean, like, all jokes aside, it's the work ethic, you know, it doesn't matter what you don't know if you can work. You will find a way to, to, to, to get that information. You know, I'm also of the huge belief it's not about talent again, it's the work. Work takes over because there are people that come again in my industry come do. And he's got it. I was not that guy. I had to, I had to practice. I hated practice. But I had to have the repetition. So I would seek my repetition to come from, from somewhere else. Like a job. I love working. I love the work. If there's a work to do, I want to do the job. And so my restaurants were, you know, when I got a first dance job when I was 15 on Brighton beach and one of those Eastern European Restaurants, the dinner and the show. I was the show. And I was still in high school. That led me to my success on stage. That led me to my success in, in, in choreograph, in choreography. It led me to my success with audience interaction. It led me to my success with, you know, commanding groups and being able to put on a show in any atmosphere, in any setup. And that's that. 10,000 hours. And so, no, I didn't learn how to be on stage. I got the experience. And so I personally seek out opportunities that I can throw myself in and learn on the job up. And so that's my strength. My, my, my always. I can no matter what. Today as a 46 year old, that's come through a lot of stuff. No matter what happens in life, I can always go, you know, I can always work and I can outwork anybody. And it doesn't matter if, if I'm gonna have to do digging ditches tomorrow or be a plumber, I'll be the freaking best plumber you'll ever see.
- [55:57]
Co-Host
That was incredible. And this episode, episode has been nothing short of incredible.
- [56:02]
Host
Thank you so much for coming on Trading Secrets. Honestly, truly. The pleasure is ours. And hopefully this was another episode of
- [56:09]
Co-Host
Trading Secrets, one you couldn't afford to miss.
- [56:25]
Host
Making that money, living that dream.