306. From Swiftie to CEO: How Olivia Levin Built a Bestseller and Six-Figure Creator Business Around Taylor Swift

Summary

Podcast Summary: Trading Secrets Ep. 306

Title: From Swiftie to CEO: How Olivia Levin Built a Bestseller and Six-Figure Creator Business Around Taylor Swift
Date: June 8, 2026
Host: Jason Tartick (Audioboom Studios)
Guests/Co-host: Olivia Levin (Author, Influencer), Catherine (Co-host, Swiftie)

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Main Theme and Purpose

This episode explores how Olivia Levin transformed her lifelong passion for Taylor Swift and the Swiftie fandom into a thriving business—growing a massive online community, landing a bestselling book, consulting for artists, and innovating in the concert ticket space. The conversation delves into the creator economy, modern influencer monetization, the economics of superfandom, and the business lessons learned along the way.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Turning a Fandom into a Business

• Origin Story: Olivia began her Taylor Swift fan account at 13 on Tumblr in 2013–2014, discovering a community of passionate fans. By 15, Taylor Swift was following her, and at 17, she was invited to Taylor’s house for a “Reputation” secret session.
  • Quote: “By the time I was a senior in high school…I never in a million years thought it would ever lead to making a dime or even guiding my career in a way.” (02:27, Olivia)
• College Years: The account grew in both passion and recognition, though financial potential seemed unimaginable at first.
• Post-College Pivots: After being laid off and dealing with personal loss, Olivia put more of her authentic self into her content and met her brand partnership agent—leading to her first major deals (starting at $5,000, up to $25-30k per deal).
  • Quote: “I started doing brand deals…full time. And all while that was happening…I was helping people get face value tickets…then eventually the book deal came along.” (11:19, Olivia)

2. The Power and Polarization of Swiftiedom

• Why Swifties? The discussion reframes superfandom—arguing that passion for Taylor Swift is no different from sports fanaticism, and underscores the connection, joy, and community Swifties forge.
  • Quote: “It’s no different than…all the guys that are fans of sports.” (04:03, Olivia)
• Hate & Misogyny: Much of the animosity directed at Swift comes from competitive stans of other artists or internalized misogyny.
  • Quote: “It’s also concerning and sad that I feel like so many of her biggest haters are women.” (05:57, Catherine)
• Public Reception: Taylor’s ability to handle being “canceled,” especially during the Kim/Kanye fallout, and parlay it into career-defining triumphs, was widely praised.
  • Quote: “She always gets revenge in such a specific way…her version of revenge is success.” (15:24, Olivia)

3. The Secret Session Experience

• Olivia describes the ultra-exclusive fan listening parties at Taylor’s homes before album releases, calling them “the blueprint” for fan engagement.
  • Quote: “Taylor used to…hand pick fans…invite them to her house, listen to the album a month before its release.” (12:44, Olivia, explaining secret sessions)
• Intimacy & Community: These events were highly personal, involving direct interaction and unique experiences (e.g. singing “All Too Well” together).

4. Monetizing the Swiftie Community

• Brand Partnerships: The main income stream, especially as Olivia’s Instagram following skyrocketed from 32k to 600k during the Eras Tour.
• Consulting: Olivia now works with artists (notably, The Kid Laroi), advising on authentic fan engagement and social strategy.
  • HQ Account Tip: Every artist should have a fan “HQ” account (like Taylor Nation), operated by their team for consistent, engaging, authentic updates. (22:39, Olivia)
• Subscriptions & Ticket Brokering: Olivia launched a $3/month subscription service to connect Swifties with face-value tickets—vetting buyers and sellers to fight Ticketmaster scalping.
  • Quote: “I was providing a service…I am going to make this more of an official ticket business…all people have to do is pay like three bucks a month.” (27:39, Olivia)
• Online Hate: Some fans attacked her for monetizing the ticket service, exposing the tension around creator labor and expectations, especially for women.
  • Quote: “If I were a man who did it, they’d be like…‘You should charge like 30 bucks per month…’” (30:34, Olivia)

5. The Story of How the Book Came to Be

• Serendipitous Book Deal: Inspired by her agent, yet thinking it would be years away, Olivia was approached days later by a literary agent; she landed a Simon & Schuster deal with a ~$90k advance (paid in thirds).
• Marketing Insights:
  • Storytelling is crucial—making the book’s narrative about the collective fandom, not just herself.
  • Leveraged exclusive features familiar to Swifties (like “sprayed edges” on pages, limited editions).
  • Heavy use of “Easter eggs” and authentic videos drove engagement and sales.
  • Pre-order goal: 3,000 (surpassed at launch).
  • Quote: “People love a story where…everything ends up being okay in the end.” (36:47, Olivia)

6. Community, Privacy, & Disagreements in Fandom

• Community Connection: Fandom bridges generations and backgrounds. Being a Swiftie creates an “instant point” of joy and trust—even strangers will help each other out (42:10, Olivia’s airport road trip story).
• Debates Among Swifties:
  • How much access/fans’ right to Taylor’s privacy.
  • Artist’s political advocacy (many say: “separate the art from the artist”; see 46:26).
  • Easter eggs, album drop predictions, personal relationships.
• Quote: “People don’t see her as a human being a lot of the time.” (44:59, Olivia)

7. Future Plans & Creator Economy Lessons

• Scaling the Business: Olivia wants to expand her consulting to more artists and perhaps eventually start her own agency.
• Long-Term Mindset: She keeps plans fluid: “I’m very much a take it day by day kind of person… I know like, you asked me about what’s your long term plan…anything can happen to you at any point in your life.” (49:09, Olivia)
• Advice for Creators: Be authentic, start by following your passion on the side, reinvest into your dream until it becomes sustainable full-time.
  • Quote: “Try to do it on the side until you can eventually…make it a full time job.” (60:19, Olivia)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Taylor Swift’s Enduring Humanity:
  “Her ability to be a human still, first and foremost…but then think about what everyone’s talents are…she somehow can write some of the most profound, humanistic lyrics…and is a marketing genius.” (16:45, Catherine)

• On Taylor’s Resilience:
  “She always gets revenge in such a specific way. And her version of revenge is success.” (15:24, Olivia)

• On Creator Monetization Backlash:
  “Not to play the feminist card, but if I were a man…they’d be like…you should charge like 30 bucks per month…” (30:34, Olivia)

• On Community Trust:
  “You instantly, like, trust another Swifty. They’re cool, they’re nice.” (42:11, Olivia)

• On Blending Passion & Work:
  “Even if you’re not at a point where you can do your passion as a full time job, try to do it on the side until you can eventually…make it a full time job.” (60:19, Olivia)

• On Learning from Taylor: “I think number one thing is storytelling. You know, she’s the best at it.” (36:47, Olivia)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:12] Olivia’s fan journey begins, Taylor follows her
• [07:26] Post-college struggles & breakthrough (brand partnerships)
• [11:44] Why Taylor connected with Olivia
• [12:44] Secret Sessions explained & fan engagement blueprint
• [21:27] Olivia breaks down business revenue streams
• [22:39] Consulting pop stars—“HQ accounts” explained
• [24:29] Account growth from 32k to 600k during Eras Tour
• [27:39] Launching and defending ticket brokerage subscription
• [34:09] The unexpected book deal journey
• [36:47] Applying Swiftian marketing strategies to book sales
• [42:11] Road trip with fellow Swifties—community trust
• [44:19] Common disagreements among Swifties
• [47:28] Business future and scaling plans
• [49:09] Olivia’s mindset on business planning
• [54:18] Favorite wisdom learned directly from Taylor
• [60:19] Final trading secret: Passion and authenticity feed each other

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Final Takeaways & Tone

The episode is lively, candid, and steeped in respect for both Taylor Swift’s savvy and Olivia’s authenticity. It’s filled with practical insights for aspiring creators—highlighting the necessity of passion, the importance of community, the challenges of online business for women, and actionable lessons on niche monetization in the new creator economy. For fans and skeptics alike, Olivia’s journey demonstrates how enthusiasm, resilience, and strategic thinking can transform niche interests into a powerful, lucrative career.

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Where to find Olivia:

• Instagram: @livialevin, @swiftiesforeternity
• Book: The Story of Us available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Target, etc.

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Trading Secret (Olivia’s parting advice, 60:19):
“Be authentic to who you are and try to blend your passion into the work that you do…try to do it on the side until you can eventually…make it a full time job.”

Transcript

[Catherine]

Foreign.

[Jason]

Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today we are joined by a woman who turned her childhood passion into a New York Times best selling career. Olivia Levin, the creator behind the account she Swifties for Eternity and the author of the story of how the Taylor Swift fandom changed our lives. Olivia started her Taylor Swift fan account at just 13 years old. And what began as a Tumblr page has become one of the most followed Swiftie accounts on the Internet. With over 630,000 Instagram followers, a US Today recognition as one of the biggest Taylor Swift influencers in the world, and now a New York Times bestseller. We're talking about how she turned fandom into a full time business, what really goes into monetizing a niche community online, the power of superfans in the economy, landing a book deal, and what her story says about the new creator economy. Olivia, welcome to Trading Secrets.

[Olivia Levin]

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

[Jason]

I'm so excited to have you. It's been a long time coming and I gotta say, once we had this booked, I had to call Catherine and I'm like, Katherine is a major Swifty. She turned me into a Swiftie and so she's my backup resource when I don't know things and specific questions. So we got the whole Swifty crew here.

[Olivia Levin]

I love it.

[Jason]

Ready to go?

[Catherine]

Yeah. My first co hosting gig.

[Jason]

Let's go. You ready to go? All right. I should have let you do the intro.

[Catherine]

I could talk about Taylor Swift all day.

[Jason]

All right, let's go back. So 13 years old, right? You're on Tumblr and you're starting to build this social media account. Obviously a very strong passion of yours. Talk to me about what that was like and when you actually started to get recognition and how that led to Taylor Swift seeing your account to kind of put you on the map in the SwiftUI community.

[Olivia Levin]

So I started that account when I was 13, and just because it's only because I found out that there was a whole community of people who loved Taylor's music online. And it was kind of during the rise of social media, you know, 2013, 2014, and I discovered Tumblr. I didn't know what Tumblr was before I heard that Taylor Swift was on it. And so I joined Tumblr and Instagram around the same time.

[Jason]

Okay.

[Olivia Levin]

And I just was doing it for fun all throughout high school. By the time I was like 15, Taylor followed me on Tumblr.

[Jason]

By the time you're 15?

[Olivia Levin]

By the time I was 15, so I probably had my account for like, over a year, and Taylor found it and followed me on Tumblr and, like, would interact with some of my content. By the time I was a senior in high school, I was 17, and she invited me to her house for a reputation secret session, and then I just kept running that account. Throughout college, I was always known as, like, the resident Swifty. People would come to, like, my dorm room for releases and stuff like that, and I never in a million years thought it would ever lead to making a dime or even guiding my career in a way. So that, just like that. I don't know. That was the universe's plan, I guess.

[Jason]

What a great way to go into college. Like, Taylor Swift is following you. You're the Swifty dorm room. Like, that's. I mean, you got some street cred in college from freshman year on. Oh, yeah, let's do this. There are going to be people that listen to this that are huge fans of Taylor Swift. There are going to be people that might be fans of training secrets that aren't fans of Taylor Swift. Let's start with this. And I'm going to give you a shot at this, too. Anybody that's listening to this today that is not a fan of Taylor Swift, kind of give me. I mean, you have followed her more of your life than not living. And, you know, I feel like talk to those people about why they should give Taylor Swift a chance, maybe what they're not seeing or what they might be missing.

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah, that's a good question. I think it's so easy on the outside for people to judge and, you know, they see what, what Swifties do and go to the concerts and dress up and they're like, oh, that they're crazy, they're obsessed, whatever. But it's no different than, you know, all the guys that, who are fans of sports. Like, you get it? You're like a big Buffalo fan.

[Jason]

Big Buffalo, yeah.

[Olivia Levin]

You go crazy for those games. It's no, no different. It's just a different genre. So I would say, honestly, the easiest answer for me is probably read my book the Story of Us, and you'll understand. You'll. You might not be a Swifty after, but you'll understand why people are. Yeah, well, I don't know. What would your answer be, Catherine?

[Catherine]

Yeah, I think my question for people that don't like her is ultimately like, why? For something that brings so many people tremendous amounts of joy and connection, I would be interested if there's other things in their life that they may be feeling like they're missing. Because if you just, like, look at a bundle of happiness. I don't. I just wish you would also feel that happiness. And it's okay that you don't like her, but I feel like she triggers.

[Olivia Levin]

She does.

[Catherine]

Yeah.

[Olivia Levin]

I always say she has the biggest haters. She has the most passionate fans, but the most passionate haters, which, to me,

[Jason]

like, from someone who's like, a new Swiftie, it doesn't make much sense because, you know, you and I were even talking about this earlier. She's so unproblematic. That's the like, right? Like, there are so many people in this world, whether you don't like their art or their, I don't know, skills or what they bring to the table, they're problematic. And there's a lot of things you can hang your head on as to why you shouldn't like them. She's so unproblematic. That's why I don't understand the polarization of the noise and the magnitude of some of that noise of those that I don't like her. That's what I don't like.

[Olivia Levin]

Keep scrolling if you see something. Remember when she first started dating Travis and they would show her for, like, two seconds on the screen every time the NFL would post something related to her? The comments were filled with men who were pissed that they showed her for two seconds.

[Catherine]

But yet Matthew McConaughey, as, like, a Texas and Texas A and M fan, when he's at a game, he has shown, like, it was, like, 45% more times on screen than, like, Taylor Swift is.

[Olivia Levin]

Yep.

[Catherine]

And, yeah, it's also concerning and sad that I feel like so many of her biggest haters are women. That is a bummer. As someone who, like, loves women and has a business full of women that, like, you understand why some random guy on the Internet who, like, loves drinking beer on Sunday and, like, yelling at his TV isn't a fan of Taylor Swift. But for another woman who's had so many experiences similar to hers, hates her. You're like, what happened?

[Olivia Levin]

I know. And, you know, I would say to that. I think it's at least what I see on social media. It's a lot of people who. Who. A lot of people who hate her are so passionate about another artist, and they. I think they hate that Taylor always, like, outstreams their artists or outsells their artist.

[Jason]

Interesting.

[Catherine]

Yeah. You probably have such a deeper insight into, like, where that hate comes from.

[Jason]

Do you deal with online hate?

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah, I have. And It's. I mean, we'll definitely get into it. But, like, when I started helping people get concert tickets at face value and I started making a business out of it, I got canceled because the people were like, you should do that for free.

[Jason]

That's. Yeah, we'll get into that. I mean, yeah, we'll get into the ticket war. Cause that's a huge part of your story. And. Well, that'll keep everyone listening here. But let's get into how you blew this account up. So talk about people. Like, people that are just trying to learn and understand social media and build a community. What was it that allowed you to blow the account up? What do you think it was that Taylor Swift followed you? And we'll talk about the transition to Instagram, but let's start with that.

[Olivia Levin]

I mean. Okay, let me paint a picture for you really quick about, like, my journey after college. Cause that's when everything really changed. So by the time I was out of college, I probably had around, like, 30k followers. Okay. And I got a remote job, ironically, at, like, this small book publishing company.

[Jason]

Okay.

[Olivia Levin]

And I was doing marketing and pr, and it allowed me to move to Nashville. I wanted to move and meet people and get my life started. And two months after I moved here, my mom was visiting and I was like, I hate my job. I'm so unfulfilled. I don't like working for someone else. I wanna quit. And I don't think I ever would have quit on my own. At least not for a while. But the next day, I got laid off. And I was like, oh, my God. Okay, well, I have to figure something out now. Cause I just moved here. I need to make money. I wanna stay. And so summer keeps going. Then you guys will understand this. Cause you're big dog people. My soul dog died. My best friend, who I had had since I was 5 and I was 23. So I had had her for, like, 18 years. So I had no job, no money, and no dog. And I was like, so down. It's okay. I was like, down in the dumps.

[Jason]

This would be a good dealer switch job.

[Olivia Levin]

No, it would be. It would be. I had no idea what my purpose was. I didn't know what I should be doing when I was applying to other jobs that summer. I wasn't even excited about the jobs I was applying to, like, labels in Nashville. I'm like, but I don't want to work for someone I don't like. It doesn't excite me. So. And I didn't know why and so the ERAS tour had started that year. So that summer, since I had more time on my hands, I started putting more of my personality and my face onto my page and making videos and talking about things, reporting on things. And as that was happening and I was applying to other jobs, I wasn't able to land another job. And one day, late summer, I call my parents and I'm like, I'm done applying to corporate jobs. I'm going to take an online copywriting course, build my own copywriting business and do my own thing. And they were like, so supportive. Okay. They're both entrepreneurs, they're like, go for it. So I took that course, I built my website and everything. I had one client. And then there was this one time I was in LA and I just serendipitously met my brand partnerships agent that I still have today. And she's a big swiftie and had followed my account and she was like, let me rep you and like get you brand deals. And I was like, you think that's going to work on a fan account?

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Olivia Levin]

And she was like, well, let's try. I mean, you started putting your face on it, so let's, let's try and see what happens. And I remember getting back to Nashville and the brand deal started rolling in and I remember my first deal was like 5K and and then they kept rolling in from there and I was like, oh my God, I'm making more money than I ever did in my shitty corporate job.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Catherine]

What brand deals were you getting? Do you remember?

[Olivia Levin]

The most random one off things. Like the first one was with some like health and wellness company in New York that wanted to do a Taylor Swift themed giveaway. Like very niche ones. Then I did bigger ones with like Sweet Laurens, it's the gluten free cookies. I did one with the super bowl for them. I did one with like Jeff Hamilton with the Jack celebrity designer jackets he does. And then I did one with like Evermore Resort in Orlando. It's like a Disney competitor. So very random things but like, I mean most of them were like 5k, some were 10k. I think my biggest one was like 25k, 30k. So I, that kept happening and I stopped doing the copywriting stuff. I was like, oh my God, I don't, I don't have to anymore. So I started doing brand deals essentially full time and all while that was happening. I mean, we can get into the ticket stuff later, but I was helping people get face value tickets and connecting buyers and sellers for free at this point during the ERAS tour and then eventually the book deal came along earlier the next year. But yeah, the brand deals is where it all started. But I think it all comes down to the ERAS tour and then the shitty summer I had it all like came crashing together and led to where I am today.

[Jason]

What do you think it is like? Obviously Taylor has pull like no other human in this entire world. But she decided early on when you're in your teens to follow you. And she also decided to invite you to special events where one of I think 500 people were selected, hand selected by her. What do you think it is about you or your content or your page that Taylor was like this is the person, this is who I gotta connect with.

[Olivia Levin]

I mean my content was probably very different when I was like a super excited 14 year old teen who idolized her than where I am today. I was always though, I will say, like I guess unproblematic. Like I would never spread rumors and be like the tabloids. Like there are some swifties who will speculate on certain things like about her body or about her relationships and all that. And I always like to stay away from that stuff. It's like I don't know her personally. I'm not interested in talking about her personal life like that. So I've always stayed away from that which I'm sure she respects. And I've just always been super passionate about her music. And the secret sessions there was probably like at her Rhode island one that I went to maybe like 40, 50 people I would say. So it was super intimate. And it was after she had kind of disappeared.

[Jason]

There's only 40, 50 people.

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah, yeah, maybe there was 500 between all the houses like all the secret sessions she did. But yeah, it was, it felt very intimate.

[Jason]

Let's, let's first. I know people are going to listen to this not knowing what a secret session is. Can you explain what that is?

[Olivia Levin]

Yes. A secret session is. Taylor used to do them for every album where about a month before an album release she would hand pick fans that she invited from social media that she followed and would invite them to her house to listen to the album a month before its release. And she would kind of go through every song and explain what she wrote each one about. And we would just hang out with her and her family.

[Jason]

That is wild. How much time like in between each song are you like communicating and giving feedback or does she wait till the end or how's that work?

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah, so it was. Well, so she first came down, she was Sitting and we kind of all chatted and listened to where she had been for the last year. Cause she had been in hiding before the Reputation era, You know that. Oh, yeah. Each song, it was probably like, I don't know, a solid five minutes of her talking about telling stories from, like, where she had been or what she had been doing and how this song came to be. And then at the very end, she sang all too well on the piano for us. And we were all around like, I was right next to the piano behind her. She was like, goosebumps, right? We're all like circled around the piano and she starts singing it. And then like halfway in, we all join. And it was. I'll never forget that moment. And then we each had like one on one time with her real quick.

[Jason]

When she took that year off, that was because of Kanye drama.

[Olivia Levin]

Kim Kanye. Yeah, it was all of it kind

[Catherine]

of kicked it off. And then I think it was just like a pile on. People just collectively decided, nope, we don't like her anymore. Every headline on magazines and it was just the. She was so over consumed by the media that then it was this, yeah, collective, we don't wanna see you anymore.

[Olivia Levin]

So she was like, okay, do you remember Snake Gate? Yeah, it was this. All the Snake emojis that people were commenting on on her stuff. And then like, number one trend on Twitter was Taylor Swift is over party. Or like, Rip Taylor Swift, her career's over. And she almost, like, she talks about it in her documentary, Miss Americana. She talks about how she almost quit music. She thought about it because of how bad it had gotten. And yeah, it all came down from Kim Kardashian editing that phone call to make her seem like a liar. And then years later, the full unedited version of the phone call leaked. And the media was like, we all all owe Taylor Swift an apology.

[Jason]

I mean, you see the way that people can be canceled today. I know you've kind of gone through that a little bit. It is unbelievable to me that she was canceled at the stage she was canceled at and made the villain, and 10 years later is the most influential musician walking this planet.

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah.

[Catherine]

It's almost like Taylor Swift as a brand is a trend and she has gone in and out of being trendy. And that is paired with very strong opinions.

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah.

[Catherine]

Except the people who have always loved her.

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah. And I also think it's a testament to one of the lessons I talk about in my book is how she always gets revenge in such a specific way. And her version of revenge is Success. And she'll flip the script. Like, she took what everyone was using to bully her, the Snake, and made it her brand and probably made millions and millions of dollars off of making the Snake her brand and having a sold out reputation tour. And she could have just folded and been like, okay, I'm done. But she was like, okay, how can I use this to then reach new heights and places where people can then not touch me?

[Jason]

Someone asks you, do you think Taylor Swift's a genius? How do you answer that?

[Olivia Levin]

Hell yeah. 100% marketing, business genius. I think she's brilliant in all aspects of what she does.

[Jason]

I don't think there's any question to if she's a genius, like in every single way. I mean, her music abilities, her marketing, her business, her leadership, her ability to speak and inspire. On the documentary, I mean, I was, I was, I was crying on the documentary. I mean, literally tearing the way that she looked at her dancers and her team and built them up. Also, I've just, I think about how busy I get and I'm just like, oh, I don't have time for that. I can't. You know, I'm trying to move 100 miles an hour. The fact she was handwriting every single letter and her mom has is like watching her wax them close, it's like, how does this. What can't she do?

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah, it's crazy.

[Catherine]

Her ability to be a human still, first and foremost. But then think about what everyone's talents are in life. You usually start to lean one way or the other, like you're a numbers guy. I'm not that. And she somehow can write some of the most profound, humanistic lyrics of our generation, but then also is a marketing genius. And to have those within the same person. And I always remember Ed Kelsey talking about how, like, when she would come to the suite, she was always like, cleaning up her dishes and like, putting things away. So you have someone who is just like the culmination of success that is still aware of how they're presenting to this man that she loves and his family. Like, that is. And that's when you go back to like, how does that bother you?

[Olivia Levin]

Right? That's such a good way to put it.

[Jason]

A funny story too, to connect the dots. There is, I won't say the source, but Beyonce was taking her kids to go see Lion King. And when she went to go see Lion King, she went to the snack stand and she asked for, you know, it was like whatever it was, she asked for her kids, like, popcorn and peanuts. She got It. And she left, and they were like, what are you doing? You didn't like. But she was already at the seat. So they went to the person that told me this, and they're like, what are we supposed to do? And the person goes, it's fucking Beyonce. Like, when do you think the last time she went to a store? She doesn't know? Like, do you think she even has a card on her? And so you talk about, like, obviously, Taylor and Beyonce, same world, love them both. But I feel like Taylor would, like, of course, have a car.

[Olivia Levin]

She would tip, like, $100.

[Jason]

It's no shot on Beyonce. It's just like, I think that's how grounded she is. Speaking of the suite, you have been invited to the suite, right, Donna? Kelsey follows you. You've gone to the suite. Was she in the suite? What was that process like?

[Olivia Levin]

So I. I didn't go to the suite that Taylor's in. I went to the Hunt suite because I know Ava and Gracie Hunt.

[Jason]

Okay.

[Olivia Levin]

And so that. That was pretty cool. And then somehow ended up in, like, the Friends and Stairs. So at the AFC Championship last year, the Chiefs won, but they almost lost, as they always do. And then, like, the last few seconds, they pull it together and they win. And I just remember, like, everyone's freaking out, and I look up after the Chiefs win, and I was at that game. You were at that game?

[Catherine]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Jason]

Me and my parents. I was.

[Olivia Levin]

Wait, who were they playing?

[Jason]

The Bills. The fans are very nice, though.

[Olivia Levin]

But, yeah, I look up when the Chiefs win, and Taylor and Donna Kelce are right there, like, in front of me. Five feet in front of me.

[Jason]

Wow.

[Olivia Levin]

And I. I was like, okay. Like, I might say hi if. But okay. So a crowd started forming around her, you know, as it does. And I really wanted to say hi to Donna and introduce myself, because she follows me, and I told myself. I was like, okay, once. Like, she says hi to all these people, and they kind of fizzle away. Then I'll go say hi. And that didn't happen. We all. So she took pictures with people, and then we all kind of headed to the field together. So I was, like, behind her, like, walking to the field. And so I didn't get the chance to say hi, but I'm like, I walked to the field with Taylor Swift. I'm like, that was very full circle for me.

[Jason]

That is pretty cool. Going back to those secret sessions, right? That's what they're called.

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah.

[Jason]

Are you, like, I can't imagine being that big of a fan of Taylor Swift and you're in her house and there's 50 of you actually giving feedback. Like negative feedback. Did that happen?

[Olivia Levin]

Oh, no.

[Jason]

Or constructive feedback?

[Olivia Levin]

Oh, no. I mean, well, the album is done so like.

[Jason]

Oh, so nothing's changing?

[Olivia Levin]

Nothing's changing. She did show us a rough cut of the Red for It music video, which wasn't done, so it was unedited. But no, I. And also like imagine you're in Taylor Swift's house. No one, even if we could give feedback, we wouldn't. Freaking out was so good.

[Jason]

She invites you guys then for, I mean, what's her business strategy? To invite you guys, obviously connect with you, but have you guys connect with your communities through the connection she builds with you.

[Olivia Levin]

For sure. I mean, I like recognize some people from online that I met there, but also, you know, the headlines then say like, taylor Swift invites fans, super fans into her home. And I remember that being everywhere because people were like, oh my God, one of the biggest pop stars on the planet is having fans into her homes. That's insane. She started that and then I. Other artists, like, she started the blueprint for all this kind of stuff and I see all these other artists and they follow everything she's done and it works. But like she, it came from her.

[Jason]

It's amazing. All right, so let's get back to your business. Right, so you graduated, you're 21 years old and you graduate from 22 from Fairfax. 22 from Fair Fee. Yeah.

[Olivia Levin]

In 20. 22.

[Jason]

26 now. Right. So four years you've been going really full time at this. Has the main monetization of your account been through brand partnerships? And if so, of course we know you have your book now. What are other ways you've been able to actually make money from this business?

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah, so number one, brand partnerships, that's probably the leading one. Yeah. Another way is a few years ago Instagram and Facebook started doing bonus bonuses.

[Jason]

Oh yeah.

[Olivia Levin]

So I make money from that. It's all based on like your engage rate and like I have a good engagement rate on all my posts. And then this kind of fits into one of my brand partnerships, but it's a little separate. But the subscription platform that I'm a partner with, I also get money from people who subscribe to me to help get them face value tickets. And then I would say I also, I work with. It's all so full circle. I now work with the pop star and I run all his fan facing marketing strategy, social media stuff.

[Jason]

You now consult with a pop star?

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah. I work with the kid, Laroi.

[Jason]

Oh, wow.

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah.

[Jason]

And you help him with building community and brand.

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah, basically taking everything I've learned as a fan on that side of things, and also watching what Taylor and her team have done over the years and just doing, you know, applying the same kind of skills to building his fan base.

[Jason]

Give us a quick look into a masterclass of some of the things that you consult him on. Like, what are some of the tips and tricks that you provide that maybe someone back home could implement into their business strategy?

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah. So when I came in with him and I pitched myself, he didn't even have an HQ account. And that's like the Taylor Nation of Taylor, you know? So I think every artist should have an HQ account because a lot of

[Jason]

it's an HQ account.

[Olivia Levin]

It's like the head. Do you want to explain it? Yeah.

[Catherine]

Like you would follow an HQ account like the headquarters of that person. So it allows, like, information, engagement, exciting BTs.

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah.

[Catherine]

Giveaways, like, anything.

[Jason]

Taylor Swift has a. Obviously has a headquarter account.

[Olivia Levin]

You don't follow Taylor.

[Catherine]

Taylor Nation, baby. Oh, my gosh.

[Jason]

You gotta coach me better.

[Catherine]

Yeah. So Taylor Nation would be like, it's not gonna be Taylor's voice, but, you know, she's signing off on it. She's approving it.

[Olivia Levin]

It's her team directly.

[Catherine]

Yeah, exactly. So it's just a whole other way for a community to kind of like, latch onto that artist and feel like they're getting more like insider information.

[Olivia Levin]

Exactly. So leroi didn't have that, and I was like, you need that. Cause he's pretty big and he doesn't post that much on social media. Neither does Taylor. And that's kind of the purpose for HQ accounts. You're giving the fans more, like, everyday content and they want to feel like they can connect to the artist. And to do that, you need to post, like, very authentic content. Not everything needs to be so curated, you know, so that. That'd probably be my number one tip for all of social media. It's just like, authenticity first, 100%.

[Jason]

Does your business cycles. This is kind of wild, but your business cycles are moving with Taylor's life. Right? Like, if Taylor. We've. We've talked about some of the polarizing hate she receives, but if she's in, like, let's say, like a negative spotlight, that probably also negatively impacts your business. But with everything happening the way it's happened in the last few years, you probably also see a correlation to your revenue. I mean, do you start planning ahead like, are you starting to think, how can I make sure this business is well positioned for the wedding? Maybe kids, things like that?

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah, I mean, you know, I don't. I have so much going on all the time that I kind of take the Taylor stuff, like, day by day, because you never know what she's gonna do. So with the wedding stuff, like, yeah, I talked to my agent about, like, okay, what brands could we maybe work with around that? And like, there's this one I might work with that's a liquor company and making a French blonde. And. Oh, like, Taylor will probably have those at her wedding. It's one of her favorite drinks. So, like, there's so many ways you can find brand partners that would. You can honestly make any brand refer to Taylor Swift in some capacity in a video. You know, literally anything. Cats, like, what. Whatever it is. So. Yes, but you're right. Taylor's trajectory has changed. My trajectory because at the beginning of the ERAS tour, I had like, 32,000 followers. And by the end of the ERAS tour, I had like, over 500k, 600k.

[Jason]

You're from 32 to over. You're at 600 now from. Just from the ERAS tour.

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah, the ERAS tour changed at all. I mean, my account blew up at the same time as I finally started putting my own personality and face into it. And I was like, okay, I'm just gonna keep doing that. And I was posting so much content every day. Cause it was my main focus for that summer. And boom, it blew up. And then I started doing the concert ticket stuff.

[Jason]

And I think that's probably a good segue to talk about that. So you get involved in this ticket war, and this becomes a big part of your brand, where you got a lot of support for it. But there's also some noise.

[Olivia Levin]

Oh, yeah.

[Jason]

Talk to me about how you got involved, why you got involved, and what the impact of your involvement led to.

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah, so the way it started was people would DM me and say, like, I have extra tickets and I want another Swifty to get them at face value. And so that. I mean, it all started because of those people, because they could have easily gone to, like, StubHub and resold them, you know. And I started helping connect buyers and sellers through my Instagram account. So for a majority of the aerosor, I was doing that for free. And it did take a lot of time. And as we were approaching the end of the era, sort probably the last four months, people were, like, scrambling to see it before it was over. So. And I was Getting so many submissions, ticket submissions, and I couldn't really handle the volume. And at the same time, I got approached by this subscription company and they were like, hey, we want you to use our platform and post exclusive content on it. And I was like, okay, well, exclusive content for a lot of people, that's like bikini pictures. I'm not doing that. I'm not interested in that. Right. I'm not making any Taylor Swift updates. Exclusive content, because like, you can get that online. I'm not doing that. So I started. I just like one day decided. I was like, you know what? I'm probably going to get canceled for this, but I am going to make this more of an official ticket business and have like a Google form with all the questions and everything I need to know to. And then like verification, all that, so I know it's not a scam. And then I am going to only post those tickets at face value on the subscription platform. And all people have to do if they want a chance to get those tickets is pay like three bucks a month. So it's nothing, Nothing. And there was like a bundle deal. Like if you want three months instead of one, it's like, I don't know, $8 or whatever it was. And so I started doing that. And I will never forget, I had just gotten back from a family vacation and I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna post about it. So I make my first grid post about it and I got a ton of subscribers. But then I got a lot of like, hate on. I got texts from people like, are you okay? And I was like, wait, why? What's going on? They're like, you're getting like majorly canceled on Twitter. And I was like, oh, I kind of expected that. And. Cause there were people on Twitter. There was like a team of these four girls that were helping people get tickets and stuff. And I guess they probably were doing it for free, but like, I'm a one man, you know, show. I was doing it all myself. I was getting so many submissions. I needed to make money because I had no job, I had the brand deals. But. And so I, Yeah, I mean, I was providing a service. So it was just mind boggling to me that I got hate for doing, like providing a service for people. And. And I was doing it first and foremost because I wanted to help people see the aerosol. And I hate Ticketmaster. And so I'm like, it all comes from a place of passion. And of course, like, making money comes along with it, but that wasn't like the primary reason why I did it.

[Jason]

Interesting.

[Catherine]

Well, first of all, what is less than $3, like at all anymore? So $3 is so menial when you're thinking about something that to your point, everyone wants to go to, everyone wants access to. And then like your brand also being a swiftie, Taylor Swift's whole thing is like, girl boss, like make money, get your bag. And so for $3, when. Also, how many people got scammed during the eras tour?

[Olivia Levin]

So many.

[Catherine]

Yeah, I had girlfriends. One of my girlfriends sent somebody $3,000. I know, no way. Three grand. And she got scammed. So to also have, like, if it's you and you're connected to a platform, there's safety in this isn't fake. So if I get connected to somebody through this, then I know that it's real. So that, that's.

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah, I'm sorry that happened. It's okay. I mean, you grow from things like that. But I, I learned a lot. But also I would spend so much time verifying those tickets. Like, I would talk to the seller and like go through this whole process, like screen recordings and all. Cause you can't edit those and blah blah, blah. Show me these, this detail, these details, all that. And then when I would connect the buyer with the seller, I would like monitor that entire conversation, make sure they were doing it right. Using PayPal goods and services, doing one ticket at a time. Like all this stuff. I never ran into one Sc that

[Catherine]

actually reminds me of what I do. People all the time, they're like, you have an adoption fee? And I'm like, well, yeah, like it costs me money to take care of the dogs. But it's almost like because you're doing this thing that you love, people get confused like why you wouldn't just do it. And it's like, well, time is money. And that's a lot of work when you have that many people submitting forms.

[Olivia Levin]

And not to play the feminist card, but if I were a man who did it, they'd be like, oh my God, good going. You should charge like 30 bucks per month. You know?

[Catherine]

Exactly.

[Jason]

From my standpoint, I'm like, what do you mean? Because I'm very black and white with numbers. It's like, why would someone not pay for this? What's your alternative? Either get scammed or go pay 4x for a ticket. You have someone that's doing the due diligence to make sure you can get a face value ticket. What do you mean?

[Olivia Levin]

Right?

[Jason]

Like, what is even the argument?

[Catherine]

Airlines want to charge you like $50 a flight to have, like, security of your flight. And you're like, I'm just charging you three bucks to like connect you.

[Olivia Levin]

No one is forced to subscribe. That was my whole argument. I'm like. And in every caption. So every post after that that I would make about like, these are the tickets. I just like, go check them out at the bottom. I would say, by the way, no one is forcing you to subscribe, so stop complaining.

[Jason]

Or just go get the tickets yourself.

[Olivia Levin]

Or that.

[Catherine]

And risk.

[Jason]

And risk. 4, 5, 6.

[Catherine]

You spend your time vetting this person, making sure that the tickets are real.

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah.

[Jason]

So how did you actually get the face value tickets? What was that like?

[Olivia Levin]

It was all because of the Swifties who wanted other Swifties. I couldn't have done it without them. They wanted other Swifties to be able to go at face value.

[Jason]

So you brokered the two then?

[Olivia Levin]

Essentially, yeah.

[Jason]

Interesting.

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah.

[Catherine]

And that also doesn't say something about Swifties. That if I got those tickets and I could turn around and pay my mortgage in the blink of an eye. But I think that collectively the real fans were like, this is such a rare experience. We don't know when she's gonna go on tour again. This tour will never even remotely get recreated. If she ever tours again, it's gonna be like, for an album. Not like I'm gonna get on stage for borderline four hours and do all of my al. That. It was like, this means more to me to give these tickets to somebody for what I paid than to like financially benefit from it. I think shows like, the heart of like, the Family.

[Olivia Levin]

Absolutely. They're good people. Most of them are good people. Yeah. You have the one offs, but yeah. And so I started doing that for other artists that were on tour that people wanted to go see. Gracie Abrams, Sabrina Carpenter. Wow.

[Jason]

And it's the same process. You work with the community base to screen them and make sure.

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah.

[Jason]

So smart. What's the most you've ever paid for a Taylor Swift ticket?

[Olivia Levin]

Oh, well, so I'm lucky. I have a lot of like, good connections with some of the stadium people. So they kind of know me from like when I would go to Taylor's tours when I was 15.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Olivia Levin]

So they always helped me out at getting face value tickets for myself. The most I paid was probably like maybe 1200 for a ticket. And then I got really lucky. I made like my entire family and my friends, like get joined. The waitlist presale thing, the Ticketmaster stuff. And then a lot of Us got lucky with those.

[Jason]

That's amazing. How about you? What's the most you ever paid for a Taylor Swift ticket?

[Catherine]

Her era's tour. And I actually got a good deal with it, too, just through some people that I knew through Wags.

[Jason]

How much was it?

[Catherine]

I was at like the 50 yard line probably halfway up the arena, and I think I paid 900 each.

[Jason]

Okay. Okay. Yeah. Not bad.

[Catherine]

Yeah.

[Jason]

Okay.

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah. I mean, it's crazy because when I used to see Taylor on tour, I'm sure, you know, it was like 300 max to see her front row floor.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Olivia Levin]

So I would go to so many shows.

[Catherine]

Yeah. When I saw her at Ford Field on like the Red tour, it was, I don't know, 200 bucks or something.

[Jason]

Not to mention, you've been in her house, I mean, listening to her.

[Catherine]

That is the first 10 line items of my resume. If I was you would just. Every interaction that you've had.

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah.

[Jason]

And another line item. You got New York Times bestseller. So did you ever in a million years think that you would get a book deal from this account? And how did that book deal come to fruition?

[Olivia Levin]

No. So I never thought I would get a book deal from this account. I never thought anything other than, like my hobby would come from this account. And it's funny, I had like a notes list in my phone of bucket list life goals. One of them was write a book. But never in a million years did I think it would be what it's about. You know, I thought it would be like, down the line, I'd write about the things I've learned through life or wisdom, entrepreneurship, whatever. Not this, but it's even better. I mean, the way it came about was it was January 2024, and I texted my agent and I was like, I want to write a book. And she was like, that's great, Olivia, but you need a book agent, you need to write a book proposal, you need to get a book deal, all this stuff. And I was like, yeah, I don't know shit about that. So I was like, okay. I was 23 at the time. I'm like, maybe I'll table that for when I'm closer to 30 and do something with it. Then three days later, I'm on the phone with my agent and I get an email and I'm like, holy shit. You will not believe the email I just got. It was from a literary agent in Brooklyn, New York. And she was like, hey, Olivia, me and my husband run a literary agency. We read about you in an article and we were a big swiftie family, and we have this book idea, and we kind of want someone to, like, take it and run with it and build it into their own idea, but we want it to be for Swifties, and we think you'd be the perfect person to write it.

[Jason]

Wow.

[Olivia Levin]

So I spent that whole spring writing a book proposal, and then in May, within, like, two weeks of them pitching it to publishers, I met with a couple, and. And I landed a deal with Simon and Schuster.

[Jason]

You've talked a little bit about monetization through brand deals on a book deal. What does monetization look like for you?

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah, I mean, I didn't know before, but, like, you get paid a third upon signing the contract, a third of your advance, and then you get paid the second third when you turn in the manuscript, and then the last third when it's published. So, I mean, it wasn't, like. It wasn't six figures, but it was, like, pretty close. That's awesome. And, yeah, and I would have. I always tell people I would have written it for free. It was such a passion project for me, and our story is so unique as a fandom, and especially, like, what I've personally experienced and. And how I built a career out of it and everything. It's just such a unique story that I want people to know and so, so truly, like, I had the most fun time writing it.

[Jason]

That is so cool. What if. What I would say selling books is one of the hardest things to do. It's easy to sell a lot of things out there. I would joke around. I had two books that I. That I published and went through the whole tour and everything. And I would say, like, I feel like I could sell, like, a $3,000 course easier than a $20 book. It's hard to sell books. What do you think you've learned from Taylor Swift's marketing strategies that you might have deployed with book sales that helped out?

[Olivia Levin]

I think number one thing is storytelling. You know, she's the best at it. And through my marketing, I just told a story in each of my marketing videos for the book, and they were all true stories. It's like, where I started, where I am now, and, like, how this book came about. And it's kind of like. Like, the. People love a story where, you know, everything ends up being okay in the end. Like, the heroes, the hero arc. And I didn't know what I was doing a few years ago. And then I got this book deal and everything and made a career out of this account. And so I Think that's really what I clung to for this. I just. Every single video I would post about this book was either this, my story, or something in the book that would get them excited. I Easter egged a lot, and I learned that from Taylor, too. I would get them excited. And one of the big things, at least for this book, was there's sprayed edges on the edge of the pages. And that was. It's a limited edition thing. And Swifties love little details like that, and they love limited edition things like Taylor's vinyls, which people also complain about all her vinyl variants, but people buy them. So, yeah, I did the limited edition sprayed edges. I knew it would add to the aesthetic, the vintage aesthetic of the book, and I knew that Swifties would cling onto that, and they did. And it helped pre orders so, so immensely. I mean, I surpassed my pre order goal by the time my book was published.

[Jason]

What was your pre order goal?

[Olivia Levin]

My pre order goal was 3,000.

[Jason]

Brilliant. It's brilliant.

[Olivia Levin]

And yeah, I think I was at, like, by the time the book came out, 3600 or something.

[Jason]

Wow.

[Catherine]

I think what's not surprising about any of that is everything that you started was from the root of a genuine passion and, and curiosity, and everything that you've also said has been so authentic. So I think, you know, when you see certain people have this really quick rise, and you shouldn't blame them either, and then they want to write a book or come out with a perfume or whatever it is that like, pertains to what their, their fan base is. But I think that the celebration of you being able to be a successful book writer is so reflective of your story. The entirety of it, you know, is. Is such a swifty thing in and of itself. So it's really impressive.

[Olivia Levin]

Well, thank you. And honestly, they were like, the Swifties who follow me were so supportive about the book. I remember when I teased the announcement of the book and it had like, you know, I posted a video countdown and it had over a million views and everyone in the comments was like, oh, my God, are you starting a podcast? I was like, ooh, maybe one day. But I just, I teased it and some people got it right. They were like, oh, my God, you're writing a book called the Story of Us. Because I had little clues, like friendship bracelets with certain, like, letters and certain things. It was like, I did it the Taylor way. And yeah, it was so awesome to see how everyone, like, celebrated my success and the book and everything. And everyone was so excited about it and I think another thing I did was it's not just about me, it's about all of us. And I think everyone wants to read a story that involves them and, you know, it's relatable. So a lot of times, like when I was marketing it, I'm like. Like, this is our collective story. Like, you want to read about yourself, read the book.

[Catherine]

Give yourself Kudos, though, because I think people are probably also looking at you and celebrating you. And it's like, it's inspiring because most people can't make a dollar from a passion. And as someone who also does my passion for work, yours is even so much more niche is the fandom of it all that I think seeing somebody have that level of success out of something that they just cared about gives a lot of people, I would think, especially younger generations, like, hope of, like, if you really do love something and you. You care about it that much and you're gonna build it in, like, if you're putting the little Easter eggs in, I can't think of anything that reflects what you're actually like then writing about more that people wanna get in on that and support it.

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah. Well, thank you. Yeah. And I will say people could probably tell how passionate I am about it when I talk about it. Cause I am. I still am, even after all these years. So I think that probably comes across on socials too.

[Jason]

It's brilliant. It's brilliant. What story? Of all the stories that you told in the Story of Us, have you seen that readers yemi or message you most about that? They're just like, this is. This is the one that hit.

[Olivia Levin]

Okay. There's so many. But I mean, one of them might be that I briefly. I don't go into too much detail about it, but what I told you about the AFC championship, like, being right next to Taylor, people are like, oh, my God, you were right next door. And I'm like, yeah, I didn't really want to bother her. I guess the secret session people love to hear about. One random story that happened to me was when Taylor was going on the New Heights podcast last August. I was supposed to be on a flight to Connecticut. And I was like, oh, my God. Well, and it was a flight where you don't have WI fi. Like a budget airline can't pay for WI fi. And I was like, I need to be available to, like, report on it. I can't land. And then everyone already watched it and knows what's happening, and I don't. So I moved my flight and I had to Take an indirect flight. And I'm at the Nashville airport, and my first flight is getting delayed, like, again and again. I'm like, oh, my God, I'm gonna miss my second flight. And these two girls come up to me, and they're like, hey, are you Olivia? Like, Swifties for eternity? I was like, yeah, turns out we're going to the same final destination. And I told them I was kidding, but I was like, well, if we missed our second flight, we could, like, rent a car together and drive to Connecticut. We missed our second flight, and we rented a car and drove to Connecticut.

[Jason]

Oh, my gosh.

[Olivia Levin]

Did. So that's it. It's a good story. Because I'm like. It was so cool. Like, you instantly, like, trust another Swifty. They're cool, they're nice. And, yeah, so I watched the podcast from the backseat of the car while I was, like, reporting on it on Instagram.

[Catherine]

Yeah, I just said that to him this morning. I said, there is an instant connection and safety and joy of that. Like, at wags, we have new girls starting all the time. And it's kind of like, are you a Swiftie or you're not a Swiftie? And that. The simplicity of just. We both like this same thing. And I don't really need to know anything else about you now to feel like I. I'm interested in having a conversation and in a world with, like, so much negativity and polarity, it's just this, like, no, we just love the same music.

[Olivia Levin]

She's the one person that brings people together. And it's funny you say that because you and my dad. Last night, I was on FaceTime with him, and he's like, you know, I don't know how I heard, but I heard that the head of some, like, he's. My dad's a lawyer. He's like the head of some, like, other firm. Like, big, big firm is a big Swifty. And so I connected with him over that, and I sent him 10 books for him and all his, like, people, and they loved it. And he's like, it's so crazy that, like, just you find out someone's a Taylor fan and boom, instant point of, like, you can talk about something and, like, if you're not a Swiftie, you know, you know, a die hard Swifty in your life. So there's always, like, oh, yeah, my wife or my sister, my daughter.

[Catherine]

So my dad is 65, and he's a big music collector, and he has an insane amount of, like, Taylor Swift artwork, and he has all of her albums. And so even that right, you have like 65 year old men from Michigan and 9 year old girls in Connecticut that both love her equally.

[Jason]

Yeah, the community, it's like, yeah, it's so special. I think the way that they're engaged is unlike anything. And I think inspiring is a big word. I'm asking a question that kind of goes against this grain. Then what would you say is the biggest disagreement among Swifties for how close they are and how tight that community is? What do you think it is that they disagree most about?

[Catherine]

I'd say like her autonomy and privacy. I think that there are some Swifties that want to just know everything and anything and would be willing to. To your point, even the people who run different accounts and like what they would be willing to say or share or speculate on versus. I think you and I would agree that first and foremost this is like breaking the third wall. But like, I would just want Taylor Swift to like be happy and like live a normal life and like would not feel privy or want the access to her that a fan shouldn't have. And I think some people feel like so obsessed with her that it's like, no, I deserve that information or I should search for that information.

[Olivia Levin]

It's almost like people don't see her as a human being a lot of the time. Some Swifties do, to your point, some don't. I know for me, when I was young and I met her at that point, I idolized her, you know, but as I've gotten older, I'm 26 now, I just respect the shit out of her. I admire her. I think she's so badass in her business and I think she's a great person, but I don't idolize her the way I used to. You know, I just. It's morphed into more of like a respect. I don't need to know about all your private life. Like, go be happy with Travis, you know.

[Catherine]

Wait, no, I know.

[Jason]

I think that feels like that was probably. I feel like when they first got together, a lot of Swifties were divided on if this was the right.

[Catherine]

I think my algorithm didn't pick as much of that up. Most of my. Most of the people in my life that didn't like Travis and Taylor didn't like Taylor or didn't already or already didn't like Travis.

[Olivia Levin]

I think a lot of Travis's fans didn't like Taylor at first.

[Catherine]

I would agree with that. The other thing that we also. No one can agree on is if and When? I think we know now, but I was gonna say reputation.

[Olivia Levin]

Oh.

[Catherine]

When we first started dating, it was like, every three weeks there was, like, a new Easter egg.

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah.

[Catherine]

If reputation was gonna drop and it never did.

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah.

[Catherine]

It probably never will.

[Olivia Levin]

But no one. Hopefully we'll get the vault tracks one day. But I would say from social media, from, like, the stuff that I see, one of the big. I mean, what. What would your guess be as to what the big disagreement is in the

[Jason]

fandom, now that I'm thinking about it? Politics.

[Olivia Levin]

Yes.

[Jason]

Yeah. It took me a second, actually. Yeah, that makes sense. I love your response to this. Always separate the art from the artist.

[Catherine]

Yeah. I would also be interested how many people that are actually Swifties deeply disagree with her politics. I don't really know that you could be like, I'm a true hardcore swiftie, and then have that much of a problem with her politics. So they either put it aside, but I think people who don't like her certainly have the stance of, you're an artist. Don't use your platform. Like, don't use your voice. Like, stay in your lane. Yeah. So I think she. I mean, she's posted every. The last two elections, at least about who she voted for and to vote. Got it. She also, first and foremost, always just says, go vote.

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah.

[Catherine]

I don't think she tries to sway people too much.

[Jason]

Amazing. All right, well, thank you guys for answering that. The future of your business. What, like, what are, like, revenue goals? Where do you want to take it? What's next? You got New York Times bestseller. You're consulting other artists. Talk to me about, like, you're building the business model from a financial. Financial perspective, growth perspective. Walk us through what the plan looks like.

[Catherine]

Yeah.

[Olivia Levin]

I mean, I think I'll always run Swifties for eternity because it's, you know, for eternity. I have to.

[Jason]

You have to.

[Olivia Levin]

But I'm also. I'll always be passionate about the community, and building that community. That's, like, the fun part of my job, actually. Every part of my job, I think, is fun. So I shouldn't say that, but I think now that the book is launched and my goal was New York Times bestseller, that was my goal. So I'm so stoked that I reached that. And now that that's out, I feel like I have so much more time on my hands to. To, like, explore other things. And I think I really want to take on another artist soon. So I have Leroy, but I want to take on another one. And then there's something that I am, you know is in the works that I can't really talk about yet, but that I hope really works out. And everything I always do, I think it'll always come from a place of passion, but I think I'll always want to fight the good fight for the fans. So whether that's. That's like more ticket stuff or anything that the fans would just love and what I would love to see as a fan, I want to do in more of like a. I don't know, an entrepreneurial way and find ways to make the fandom experience even better going forward.

[Jason]

I love it.

[Catherine]

You have such a unique subset of skills for an artist to want to hire. You're almost like the opposite of like an Olivia Pope from Scandal. She's like the PR crisis. You're like the person that has such an insight into, to your point, the largest group of fans ever, arguably. Yeah. And to have that as a. You have that as both the business owner and the user and to be able to pitch that into a business model, I think you could have a ton of success from.

[Olivia Levin]

Thank you. Yeah, I mean, I would love to one day have in my own agency maybe down the line and have, you know, a bunch of. Of artists on. On my roster and. And then eventually hire more. Hire more people to take on other artists when I can't handle all the volume. So I don't know. I'm very much a, like, take it day by day kind of person. I know, like, you asked me about what's your long term plan. I feel like anything can happen to you at any point in your life. Like, the book deal just came. Boom. I like, put it out in the universe. Three days later, it came to me, you know.

[Catherine]

Well, it certainly worked for you too, right? Everything day by day.

[Olivia Levin]

Right. And even when, you know, shit was hit fan a few years ago and I had no idea what my life was gonna look like, everything just worked out better than I ever could have imagined. So I try to just lead life with that kind of mindset. Everything's gonna work out even better than I want it to. And that way I never really worry or stress about what's next because I always know there's opportunities here and there and I get to choose what is worth my time and what I want to invest in and I don't have to just do anything, you know, it's

[Jason]

a great mindset to have.

[Catherine]

Taylor Swift said that on the New Heights podcast. Remember? She was. Everyone or everything deserves your time.

[Olivia Levin]

You're right. Your energy is expensive.

[Jason]

Yeah. That Line.

[Olivia Levin]

Not everyone can afford it.

[Jason]

I love that line.

[Catherine]

That line is great.

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah. Yeah, you are.

[Catherine]

Yeah. Your time is expensive. Treat it as so.

[Jason]

The only thing we gotta. Speaking of expensive time, the only thing we gotta talk about that we haven't talked about is the wedding. Have you done any research? Is there any speculation, anything you can comment on that you might have insight or thought about?

[Olivia Levin]

Let's hear it. I'm asked that all the time. Like, even on the news, they'll be like, so, what do you know about the wedding? I have heard some things, and I don't really know what to believe. But I also don't like to very much speculate about it publicly. I've heard things from, I think, pretty reliable sources, but, yeah, I kind of like to keep that to myself because I don't want to add to the noise. And we'll know when we know. I mean, the rumor that's out there in the media is, like, fourth of July, New York. It would be genius if she spread misinformation on purpose to get people confused, and then the wedding just happens and people find out after. But maybe she doesn't care if people know. I don't know.

[Catherine]

She's 70,000 steps ahead of everyone else.

[Olivia Levin]

I do think it's gonna be soon, though.

[Catherine]

I do, too.

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah.

[Jason]

And what about someone who's in the market for a ring? Tell me about the ring. Do you know much about it?

[Olivia Levin]

About her wedding ring? Yeah, I know. I read articles about an interview from. What's her name? Kindred Lubbock, I think. Is her name something like that? She designed the ring, Travis. It's like. I don't know. It's beautiful. It looks perfectly like Taylor. Like, that's what it reminds me of. Very vintage aesthetic, timeless. I remember reading about something. There's, like 13 something in it. I forget. I'm not good with that dated cushion cut. Thank you. Of course, you know, I'm not in the market for a ring. I'm single, so I don't know anything about rings at the moment, but.

[Jason]

Elongated asterisk. Asterisk. All right, well, let's. Let's wrap with a little bit of rapid. I mean, you gotta have some questions on the rapid fire, but, I mean, I'll start your favorite era.

[Olivia Levin]

Favorite era. Reputation. Because of how intimate it felt between, like, the fans and Taylor. A lot of people in the general public who used to be fans left and, you know, canceled her. And then at the shows, I would recognize, like, half of the floor. They were all Tumblr.

[Catherine]

People.

[Olivia Levin]

And so we would all, like, get together, travel to shows together. So that was my favorite era. And I think Taylor was so grateful to, like, see familiar faces at the shows. Every time she would see us, she would, like, wave at the barricade. So it was cool that we all stayed, even though she had gotten canceled. But I also loved. My favorite album is probably the Tortured Poets Department.

[Jason]

Fair. Fair.

[Catherine]

Same.

[Olivia Levin]

Okay. Good taste.

[Catherine]

We moved on way too fast.

[Olivia Levin]

Way too fast. Way too fast.

[Catherine]

I can listen to Tortured Poets Department like, on the stair Stepper, like, it doesn't matter.

[Olivia Levin]

Oh, I work out to it.

[Catherine]

It's like the sad. It's not the saddest album by a long shot, but it's. I mean, it'. Deep. It's lyrically complicated, but I don't know.

[Olivia Levin]

Oh, my God, it's tragic. It. Honestly, it's like a tragic love story.

[Catherine]

Yes.

[Olivia Levin]

It kind of makes me feel the way I felt when I finished the movie Wuthering Heights. Have you seen it in theaters?

[Catherine]

That's such a good example, right? Yeah, it just, like, leaves you.

[Olivia Levin]

It just leaves you like, oh, my God. Heavy. Yeah. But I'm tortured.

[Catherine]

Yeah.

[Olivia Levin]

But for some reason, I love sad music. I love tragic music. Be. Because I actually don't know why I. I'm not like a sad person, but I. I lean toward sad music.

[Catherine]

I think it's. I think that's very common. I think that people who inherently feel pretty light are like, I need a

[Olivia Levin]

little loyal in my life. Like. Yeah.

[Catherine]

My question would be, you mentioned the all too well and that, like, moment never leaving you, but from all the other little moments that you've had with her or nuggets of information that she's shared, is there anything that has ever really stuck with you? Whether that was something she shared about a song or her life or just wisdom?

[Olivia Levin]

There was something she said at the Reputation Secret session that always stuck with me, and it was that she had learned from, you know, being canceled and her time away from the public eye and the media, that she wanted to have a big career and a small life. And she never thought that. Thought that she could have both of those things at the same time. She. She thought, you need a big life, a big public life if you have a big career. But she mastered the craft of having a big career. I mean, look at her now. And still managing to keep her life small and private. So that always stuck with me. And she's, you know, stayed true to that, True to that ever since.

[Catherine]

I love that.

[Jason]

That's a beautiful Quote. That's a beautiful quote. Any other questions you got?

[Catherine]

No, I think just thanks. I think that, you know, as someone who has loved her also very uncomplicated since she first came out, I think that it's really easy to fall into negativity and pass that along. And I think that you've built your entire life and now career surrounding something that makes people really happy. And I commend that.

[Olivia Levin]

Aw, thank you. Well, you too. I love what you do.

[Jason]

Both of you too.

[Olivia Levin]

I love that we both found a passion and followed it, you know, it's hard to do.

[Catherine]

At least she liked dogs. It's like my biggest.

[Olivia Levin]

That's the thing. I'm a big dog person. I've never been a cat person and I never say that, but I'm saying it.

[Catherine]

I'm allergic to cats. So like, people come into Wags and they're like, you don't save cats. I'm like, well, I don't like, have a vendetta against them, but I'm allergic to them. But yeah, there's like clips actually of Taylor Swift interacting with dogs. And she's always like, ew.

[Olivia Levin]

Ugh.

[Catherine]

Get away from me. I know you're too big. Cuz her mom has like Great Dane.

[Olivia Levin]

A Great Dane named Kitty. I know, it's crazy.

[Catherine]

I do love how passionate she is about, like taking care of her animals, especially somebody at that caliber. They all often, like, are not great pet owners. And Olivia and like, they're always like traveling with her and in her music videos and it's very sweet.

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah. Wait. I have a question for you, Jason.

[Jason]

Yes.

[Olivia Levin]

What's your favorite album?

[Jason]

Oh, I am. Reputation.

[Catherine]

Yeah.

[Jason]

She got. That's how it started. That's how it. That's where it all began.

[Catherine]

I locked him in a car for three hours.

[Jason]

You're driving every single song. Oh, and I was writing notes. I know every single song. I was getting the story about it all. And then as I got the story about it all, I wanted to know more. Then I went down the rabbit hole on Jo. I was like, I wanna know everything about Jo. Where is Jo now? Where did she live? How did it happen? Why did she take off for so long?

[Catherine]

You retain information very easily. So then as I'm telling the story and like characters are coming into the story, it would be like, wait, pause. I'm like, yes. Since everything I've ever wanted is just for people to ask me questions about Taylor Swift. And you love to ask questions. It was a really good harmony of getting him into the I bet you

[Olivia Levin]

had fun explaining getaway car. That's a good one.

[Catherine]

Oh, my gosh. That's. Call it what you want. Especially with, like, the little clip that has always been, like, so cute online. Just like, again, I wish Joe so well.

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah.

[Catherine]

But. Yeah, being able to. Or when she got canceled when talking about, you know, look what you made me do, and all these different. Yeah, all her little. Her little one liners that would pass over somebody else's head so fast. And I'm like, no, that. That's an important one.

[Jason]

And we did it while she was driving, so I had my iPad out and I was just like, firing away with, like, all right, I want to see this video. I want, you know, I want to learn what happened here and what happened here. And I think the storytelling is what brings you in because you just want to know more. Or it's a movie that you just want to keep watching.

[Olivia Levin]

The sequels, and there's always a sequel,

[Jason]

and they're always so connected. It's wild how connected the storytelling is.

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah. Well, I think that's what sets her apart from every other artist, you know, like, even things that don't maybe make her look the best, like Guilty as Sin, one of my favorite songs ever. Um, it. It may not, you know, portray her in the perfect light, but she's not afraid to remain vulnerable and just like, be honest. Because we all have emotions that we wish we could control, but we all experience very similar things at different points in our life. And so I. I think it's so great that she has never shied away from being so detailed and honest in her lyrics.

[Catherine]

Yeah. In the New York Times interview, she was talking about how she's always tried to maintain her level of observation and curiosity surrounding everything that we all have when we're teenagers. Everything is heightened. It's dramatic. And she's like, I've tried to hold onto that with every fiber of my being to continue being a good songwriter. And she also had shared that whenever she has a thought probably similar to Guilty as Sin, it's like, ugh, do I want to put this out there for people to judge, for people to consume and, like, speculate what she's talking about. But she's like, but most humans don't have unique thoughts. We all have things that we've felt that other people have felt. And so she's like, well, if I feel this way, other people probably do too. And I think that's what has maintained her relatability. Even though she's Taylor Swift.

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah. And Everybody. I'm sure a lot of people could relate to a song like Guilty as Sin. You know, you feel like you're trapped in a relationship that you really want to get out of, but, like, it's your comfort and all that and you're having thoughts about someone else. You're like, okay, I probably shouldn't be in this relationship anymore. You know, it's so relatable.

[Jason]

And her brilliance. I think most people take a punch and when you take a punch, you do one or two things. Either, like, I'm going to take the high road and just like. Or you're gonna just punch back. And sometimes that could look stupid. Her brilliance to, like, take the punch and use the punch as a mechanism to platform her to the next level and spin it. The snakes being, snake being example, it's amazing.

[Catherine]

And she's done it over and over and over again. It's like the satisfaction of seeing her to your point, get her revenge, if you will, years and years later into

[Jason]

the ring with Taylor Swift. That is for sure. All right, well, we gotta wrap up the Trading Secret. So one Trading secret. You've had such an interesting career track in such a short period of time. I mean, it hasn't been a short period of time given the fact you started this when you're 13, but since you went full time, think about what you've done in that short period of time. It's amazing. What trading secret can you leave us with?

[Olivia Levin]

There's so many, but, I mean, I guess I kind of said it earlier, but I think being authentic to who you are and trying to blend your passion into what the work that you do, which actually they kind of feed each other, you know, you follow your passion, it feeds your and fuels your authenticity, I think that's what I would say. And even if you're not at a point where you can do your passion as a full time job, try to do it on the side until you can eventually, hopefully one day use the money that you've made from a job you may not like and not be passionate about to later fuel that passion and hopefully one day make it a full time job.

[Jason]

I love it. Perfectly said. This was an amazing podcast. Congratulations on everything you've achieved.

[Olivia Levin]

Thank you so much.

[Jason]

Olivia. Where can everyone find everything you have going on?

[Olivia Levin]

Yeah, well, you can follow my personal Livialevin on Instagram or Swifties for Eternity on Instagram and you can buy the Story of Us anywhere you buy your books, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Target, wherever.

[Jason]

Let's go. Olivia. Thank you. For being on this episode of Trade Secrets. And Catherine, for the first time ever, maybe many more. Thank you for being a co host on Trade Secrets.

[Catherine]

Thank you for having me. You thank and, and so good to meet you.

[Olivia Levin]

So good to meet you too.