← Trading Secrets
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. This one is very different. It is an impromptu State of the Union with the big new Bachelorette announcement. We cover all things on Trading Secrets. A lot of our guests have been from the Bachelor. Bachelorette, Bachelor in Paradise. I myself was an alumni from Bachelor Nation, as most of you guys know, and we do talk often about what is happening from all aspects and of course, the business in numbers perspective. This episode's gonna be a quicker one. We're gonna get some opinions from the one and only the curious Canadian, David Ardouin. But it feels only right to bring on what I would consider one of the top Bachelorette contenders out there and alumni from Bachelor Nation. She is seeing all aspects of it. She's friends with a lot of the people from the show, Kelly Flanagan. So we're getting the curious Canadian. We're getting Kelly Flanagan. We're getting it all. And we're talking about the big announcement, which, unless you're living under a rock, is that Taylor? Frankie Paul from Secret Lives of Mormon Wives and is now our new Bachelorette. So before I kick it over to you, Kelly, I want to kick it over to the one and only David Ardwin, the curious Canadian. I know you are passionate about this franchise. You've been a fan for decades. I'm sure you have an opinion or two. What is your initial take on what this announcement was and specifically who it was and what is next for Bachelor Nation?
- [01:47]
B
Listen, Jason, I. It's 9:00 on a Wednesday night. I got things to do. But the Bachelor franchise, they had to do it again. They had to get me on the edge of my seat. They had to get me with a mic in my hand. I'm lucky enough to have you and Kelly on here. I want to make it short and sweet. I don't know if I'll be able to, but I'm just going to say this. When I saw that announcement, I said, they. They did it to us again. They did it to us OG Die hard fans. They, the. The people who made the franchise what it is. All you got to do is give us what we want. We want love. We want love from familiar stories that we find genuine. We want someone like a Rachel Carcano. It's right there. We had her on the podcast. She's saying that she would have been the lead. We want someone like a Kelly. We want someone like a Mariah. We want somebody. Give us somebody that is a little more familiar with us. Because the last time you listened to us, Joey G. He Blew up. He made your franchise look like gold. You just gotta listen to the people. You don't know if Batch of Paradise is Love island or Survivor or what it is. If you wanna, if you wanna get it right, you should have just included the fans. Let the fans choose and I guarantee you they're not choosing Taylor Frankie Paul. Now look, I don't want to come at Taylor Frankie Paul for this, okay? I. I wanna, I wanna keep her out of it. If she's gonna get offered the role, she should take the role. Good for her. I'm. I'm just a little. I'm just a little upset and a little annoyed at the franchise. You know the term do less? Just do less. You're trying too hard. You're doing too much. It's right in front of your face. And when there's just so adamant about views, that's the only angle that they're going for. You cannot convince me otherwise. If that's what you want, great. You may get views.
- [03:35]
C
But.
- [03:35]
B
But you're missing the plot, you're missing the purpose and that's why your franchise is in the situation that it is. That's my take. I got a hundred more things but I'm. Let the experts go. Take it away.
- [03:45]
A
All right. I'm going to transition over to Kelly in one second though before I do that because I have a million follow ups to what you said. I'm not going to follow up to everything just now because we'll let the conversation organically come about. The one thing I got to follow up on actually. Side note, genius idea of letting the fan base actually pick. That's obviously what Love island does. I haven't heard anyone say that. That is really smart. The second thing I got for you is you kept in that response, by the way. Love the passion. You kept saying views, views, views. What about this decision is making you say that their only focus is the views.
- [04:24]
B
I just think that they feel that they're so desperate to find, to make you always see she's going to save the franchise. She's going to make it relevant to. So they feel like they got to make this splash and what does this splash do for them? It's going to get people like me riled up OG fans because it's controversial and with drama comes views and that's what they think. But everyone who's a true fan of the show, who's watched it for multiple, multiple seasons, not one season because they got a splash multiple seasons, they're hopeless romantics who want to see A love story. And that is why I think they're just chasing the views, because I think they think views is the remedy. But Views doesn't get longevity when your show is based around love. So the whole right reasons thing, well, you can throw that out the window because you just chose someone who, whether she is or isn't, there's people within the franchise, within the family who you could have convinced us is there for the right reasons. And when Alex Cooper is on a promo saying the views are going to be outrageous as a reaction to who the lead is teasing it, I mean, it's right in front of our face. It's tough to get behind. It's just tough to get behind. Now the follow up question is, will you watch? Yeah, I'm probably going to watch. Right? I'm probably going to watch. And I'm. I probably am, but I'm not happy about it.
- [05:41]
A
All right. All right. A lot of opinions. They are coming in hot from David. We'll transition over to Kelly. But I think what's important to think about is the ratings of the show. We know that the last Bachelorette season ratings were down. We know that the last Bachelor season was Ratings were down. We know that paradise this past summer ratings were down. And follower accounts on social media, which of course is the new social currency, were down. So before I transition to Kelly, it's important to go over those numbers. The one and only Kelly Flanagan. Before I even ask your opinion, we both said you should be the Bachelorette. Did they reach out to you? Would you have done it?
- [06:24]
C
No, they did not reach out to me. And no, I wouldn't have done it. Honestly, I can have so many long discussions about this. I try to look from both sides of the perspective and see what would fit. There are parts of me that miss just like this sweet girl, like an Emily Maynard, that she has everything, but she also kind of has a tragic story. She was a single mom, and then all you wanted, she had everything in her life figured out and all you wanted to see was for her to fall in love. That's the only piece that she was missing in her life. And she was just a cute, sweet girl. Now, I don't know if picking a girl at this point like that would revive the franchise. What it definitely. And it definitely needs that. So I think right now this is a hail Mary and I think that they're doing it right. Unfortunately, David, I think that they need someone super, super polarizing to bring attention back onto the franchise. So, you know, the cute girl that's going to have the amazing love story. I don't think that's enough. I don't think people are going to get excited about it. And I think the polarizing figure like Taylor is going to get eyes on the franchise. And at the end of the day, it is a business. They do need the eyes, and I think that's what it's going to bring. Listen, Taylor is not perfect, but she does have a massive, massive fan base. To be honest, one of my great girlfriends is just like Taylor and she's the complete opposite of me. But me and this girl, her name's Sophie, we get along so well. And what I think I'm going to see or we're gonna see with Taylor is a lot of growth that I think a lot of people are going to like. Taylor's definitely made a lot of mistakes in her past. But the one thing that I can't applaud about Taylor Frankie Paul is that she takes accountability. She takes accountability for the things that she screws up and she recognizes it, she communicates it, and she does try to fix it. She is not perfect in any degree, but she is going to be a polarizing figure that I do think could bring the franchise back.
- [08:27]
A
All right, that's a. That's a heck of a take from Kelly Flanagan. I'm going to get into some of the numbers. I know David is chomping at the.
- [08:33]
C
Bit to get back friends with Taylor. I do. She's not perfect. She isn't. She isn't perfect. But I do think that her taking accountability, I really, really respect her in that sense that she does do that.
- [08:46]
A
Yeah. I followed her because I found her extremely entertaining. Like, I was, like, intrigued. I wanted to watch more. I think the big question then becomes, is the Bachelorette the move? Is that the right move? I think something I said earlier today is you can have, you know, everything in one position and absolutely nail it, but can you do it, do it elsewhere? Let's just call it like Wayne Gretzky is the best player of all time but was one of the worst coach. Right. Doesn't really make sense. Is it transferable now we know that Taylor for Frankie Paul immediately, effectively, today is the number one followed Bachelorette ever on social media. The franchise has been around, as everyone knows, 25 some years. And she has 4.2 million followers on TikTok, 430,000 followers on Instagram. She also has two of her castmates, Jen Affleck and Whitney Levitt, who are going to be on Dancing with the Stars. Instagram following for Jen Affleck, 1 million, TikTok, 2.1 million. Whitney 2, 2.3 million. And Instagram over over half a million is my understanding. So they have a lot of followers from this show. And the show that they were on blew up the ratings. As of March 17, 2025, we were looking at a rating of 0.27. Adults 18 to 49 was household rating was 0.56. And we know that the streaming performance ranked number seven on the Nielsen streaming ratings during week September 2nd through 8th in 2024. It performed well. So their show performed well. They perform well on social media. Will it translate to being the Bachelorette? Is the question. I think going back to David's point. And David, I'm going to kick it back to you. From a business perspective, you needed a change. You can't deny that they had to shake something up. Here's the question. I could see him on Zoom right now. He's ready to throw his hat down and throw a fit. Here's the argument, though, from a business perspective, the model of the show, the mission statement, the mission, the business plan, everything since day one, his bet, Bring ordinary people in, show their story, root for them to fall in love, find entertainment along the way, see someone get heartbroken and someone fall in love and watch the person who got heartbroken, who's their fan favorite, eventually find their love and for the right reasons has always been part of the mission statement. Period. End of story. And so I think what we're seeing here is a show that is disregarding and throwing out that business plan. You cannot argue that this is the first time that you're. You're having someone as a lead with millions of followers, massive social currency. First time that you're getting someone that's come from another reality show. And you're definitely throwing that playbook completely out. We think, I think short term, it will work. The question is long term. Do you then lose the identity of everything you work 25 years to have, which has kept you around this long? That, I think is the business question mark. David, you're chopping at the bit.
- [12:05]
B
Well, a couple things. We're about to recap the Bobby Bones episode after this. And he talks about you can't have great attention without negative attention. So I get it. You can business decision me in the face with this. And I'm not going to argue that because Taylor, Frankie, Paul puts asses in the seats. Okay? That is a fact. Okay. But I am coming at it. My job in this is to come at it for, from a, I, I feel like a fan's perspective, the Bachelor's been a, for all intensive purposes, a fugazi love show anyways, because you have more people in relationships that are still together from one season of Love island than you do from 30 seasons of the Bacherette. So it, it, we've been clinging on to this idea that it's a love show anyway. So if we're just going to rip the band aid off and watch an entertainment show, I'm good with that. I'm also, to Kelly's point, she supports it. I, I, I can get behind it too, for entertainment purposes. Like I said, I'm, I'm gonna watch. Right. I'm all for human growth. Right. We can say that she's not perfect. We can detail why she's not perfect. I don't think we're here to do that. We're not here to cast stones. We're not here to judge. We're here to talk opinions and we're here to talk those things. I'm just, I, I think for me, it's not like we ran out of options for choices. I, I've seen them go with really the people's choice and how good it can end up with leads. When you talk about a Gabby, when you talk about a Joey G, when you talk about people that were part of it that people really got excited about, I thought that we had an opportunity to do that. So I just think that they're trying too hard I think that they're trying too hard with paradise and miss the plot. I think all the reviews, whether the money prize or the Love island twists or the, it's just losing the plot a little bit. Everyone knows it needs a shake up, but I don't think it needs a shake up in, in, in reaching where they're going. I think it needs a shake up and going back to what the people want. That's why I go back to let the people vote. People will vote, and that's how things are solved. But we'll, we'll see, man. I mean, we'll see.
- [14:02]
A
Asses will be put in seats, in my opinion. Ratings will go up. Social media currency for the Bachelor franchise will be off the charts. Kelly, I want to ask you this question. If you were going on the show as a castmate, we both agree we would be friends with Taylor, Frankie, Paul. She's entertaining, she's exciting. So you could just watch her. She's her own TV show. My question, though, is a bit of a tough one. If you know, some of the history of Taylor, Frankie Paul. Right. I think there's some out there. You've talked about taking accountability. The question I have for you, if we had the same type of bachelor, would you go on the show as a cast, given that history? And what's your take on that?
- [14:45]
C
That is the hardest question that you probably ever just asked me.
- [14:51]
A
You thrive at hard questions. Our entire friendship is built on having hard conversations.
- [14:58]
C
I mean, listen, I'm gonna answer it, but it's tough when you frame it that way. I'll be honest with you. From my perspective. No, it's not ideal. It's not ideal. If you told me that this guy has been arrested for domestic violence and he has three kids and two different baby mamas, like, I. I don't think that sounds ideal. And I think. I think, you know, Taylor's track record isn't great, but at the end of the day, I think a lot of people are willing to forgive her because they're getting to know her personality. At a core. She is very vulnerable. She is very honest. She shares her mistakes. And I think even though everyone sees the really, really bad, you know, she opens up. You see how I watch Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, and there's definitely scenes where I feel bad for Taylor. The way I've seen, like, her. I think it's her mom and her stepdad, the way that they, like, would come at her at things like. The girl's definitely got a lot of trauma. I think she knows that. And I think she. She's trying her best efforts to become a better person. And I think a lot of people are forgiving because they see that she recognizes her biggest, biggest flaws.
- [16:29]
A
I love that answer. Here's why I asked a question. I'll kick it to you after. David, we've already established that you and I are fans of Taylor Kelly. We are. We are fans of her. We're supporting her. I also think it's terrible to pigeonhole someone into one version of themselves and not allowing to factor in that growth can happen. It absolutely can happen. The reason I asked your question is actually more connected to the business side of things. I think because of your answer. You were. It was hard for producers to work with you because of your logic, because of, like, who you are as a person. You see it all, you know it all, and you're. You're a deep thinker. And you, I mean, just made, like, literally said, like, you probably wouldn't go on. And so I'm thinking about the cast this season. The Cast is gonna, the cast is gonna put asses in seats and the cast is going to be unbelievable to watch. Is my prediction making TV like you can't even imagine. But I do think that again, it's gonna be a whole different shakeup. If we think we've seen good casts in the past, it won't even touch what this cast will be. Do you agree with that, Kelly? Then I'll kick it to you. David.
- [17:51]
C
You know what? I'm, I'm, I hear what you're saying, but I'm a little bit confused as what you're saying. If anything, when you asked me about the cast because I think I saw something. I don't know if it's real or not, but on TikTok, it was something like a producer texted one of the guys and says, hey, now that you know who the Bachelorette is, like, are you still interested? Unfortunately. Listen, I want the best for Taylor and I want her to find her love story again. She's got mess behind her. But at the end of the day, like, I genuinely believe Taylor is trying to grow and I want that love story with her now where my concerns for her are, a lot of guys aren't going to see her track record and not necessarily be a fan of that and they're going to be pushed away. So who are you going to end up with, Jason? You're going to end up with the guys who only want fame, who want to go on the show.
- [18:38]
A
Exactly, exactly.
- [18:41]
C
And they don't care about Taylor and they're probably thinking the back of their head like, oh, this is just going to be fun for me. You know, I'm not going to become like a stepdad of three and care for the kids. Like, I, I worry for her. I genuinely do. Because I think that a lot of guys are unfortunately going to be pushed away because Secret lives of Mormon Wives. I would say the majority of the viewership is female. So I don't think many guys like no Taylor corps. I don't know Taylor at her court, but I genuinely think, I think she's authentic and is trying to overcome a lot of really bad screw ups that she's had.
- [19:15]
A
Exactly. What I was thinking is that if we've questioned for 20 plus season, David, I'm coming to. I know you're ready to break something, but here's what I'm saying. If we have questioned for 20 some seasons why people go on the show for the right reasons, you're only here for fame. You know, in Bachelor in Paradise, couples talking before the show. And then going on the show and saying, you guys strategized as a fan base. We have been so critical of that. People that leave their jobs and then go to influencing couples that break up and get. Immediately get chastised. And I saying there was no validity to their actual love. It was just for career sake. I can go on for another hour. I'll stop. But that is the disposition of the fan base. And now we have the most followed bachelor whose clout is off the charts, whose success right now in the entertainment space is. Is viral. And you're gonna have people go on this show and you think they're gonna be there for any form of the right reason. Good luck. And then when you mix in a lot of the moving factors here, I don't know that we. Maybe we've had like one, two or three. I don't know how many leads there are where we. We know a lot about their religion coming into a lead. Like, we know that she's a Mormon. I think that that definitely limits the dating pool. Right? She's been divorced. That changes dating. Dating preferences. Having kids changes it. Having, like, some of the things that have happened. And so I will question with the deepest analytical thought process everyone's intention that that's going on this season of the Bachelorette. David, you're ready to rip? Go.
- [20:55]
B
Well, my take comes from the show, okay? My, My, My perspective of the show, what you guys are saying about the person is accurate. She's gonna make great tv. She's gonna take this seriously. She's gonna show and, and try and grow and, and. And find, you know, be the person that she wants to be to. To potentially find love. The show, I'm sorry, doesn't care about that. The show isn't casting her to find love. The show is casting her for good tv. There is no other reason why she's being casted. And so the cast that she's going to get is not going to be made up of all the most genuine human beings who, who could look past all of her past. They're going to cast people who make good tv. I genuinely feel bad for Taylor, Frankie, Paul in this situation because she's going to be set up for mental health failure because she has all of these things, things that she's coming into with. She's very open about them. She's going to have a castmate who's there, who is there for their own reasons and the producers, at the end of the day, that we've heard time and time again for the leads, they are there to make good tv. They're there for storylines. They're there for, quote, unquote, the franchise has made the its living on the most dramatic season ever, and that's all that they care about. And so she's going to get put with all the spotlight and attention and buzz and social media presence and people talking about it, and they're going to want good TV because they've clearly moved so far away from the narrative of true, genuine love story that they need to just change the name of the show. So that's really my take at all. Of course she's not going to get it.
- [22:31]
A
What would you change the name of the show to?
- [22:33]
B
Oh, my God. Love in a Blender. Let's just put love in a blender and just blend it all up because we don't even know what it is anymore.
- [22:43]
A
Love in a Blender. All right, let me ask you this. And then, Kelly, I'm coming back to you because I know you're ready to go. David, you are the executive producer. You have a lot of opinions on this choice. I'm going to give you two buckets of decisions you can make. I'm going to give one person you could pick from the Bachelor alumni, excluding Kelly, that you think should have been in this role. And if they made the decision to go outside of the franchise and they went with someone other than Taylor, Frankie Paul, who would you pick? Fire away.
- [23:11]
B
That's a great, that's a great question. I mean, I would pick Rachel. Kirk Connell all day. I think she fits. I think she, her season was one of the biggest seasons when she, when she won with Matt James. I think the, the story of how her relationship ended was the number one trending topic in the world. So don't tell me that she doesn't buzz headlines. She would have been perfect. She's right there. She, she, it would have been a home run.
- [23:36]
A
I will be stunned. I will be stunned if Rachel Kirkonnell is not on reality TV in the next year or two from a competitive network.
- [23:43]
B
Gabby Windy is one of the biggest Bachelor alumni stars that they have. And they, she was a lead on the show because that's what the people wanted. When the people want, they support, they support. They support. And look at her now. If you had to bring someone from outside of the show, oh, my gosh.
- [23:59]
A
I, I, there's options, right? There's Julianne Huff, there's Kristen Cavallari, there's Brooks Nader, all in the franchise.
- [24:06]
B
Brooks Nader now dating Carlos Alcatraz Hot off the press.
- [24:09]
A
Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah.
- [24:11]
B
Tennis player. I don't, I don't have a good one off the cuff right now. Tate McCray. Boom. Massive.
- [24:17]
A
Okay. Tate McCray. A lot of options there from David Kelly. You heard David's take on Love in the Blender? You heard my take on just the cast and everything like that. What's your response? All that? What are you thinking?
- [24:29]
C
You know what? So, David, I think one again, I, I, I feel for, I feel for Taylor. But another reason why I think someone outside of the franchise might work a little bit better too is if Rachel goes on the show. I think Rachel would be a great pick to be Bachelorette, but when you are a contestant on that show, you see what goes on behind the scenes and you know how, like, you're treated. And I think you go in there with your guard up a little bit. So Rachel would go in and Rachel does have a backbone when she needs it. She's a sweet girl. She's so nice. I love her to death, but she knows how producers could sometimes get and I think she would put her foot down now when it comes to Taylor going on. She has experience in reality TV and she knows how production works. But with this whole process, I've heard from other people on reality TV that it is a little bit different. And I think going outside of the franchise, they're, you know, their old tricks will be able to be played on Taylor and they'll eventually get to the conclusion that they want as producers for the ratings versus a Rachel.
- [25:37]
B
100%.
- [25:38]
A
David agrees with you. I will say we have gone out of the franchise. The show's gone out of the franchise. I believe the last, last lead that went out of the franchise was Matt James, right?
- [25:48]
C
Yeah.
- [25:49]
A
Okay.
- [25:50]
B
Inside the franchise, but outside the franchise.
- [25:52]
A
But inside the franchise. I will also say that we just talked about this on the episode last week with Rachel Recchia, other networks and other reality shows. I talked to the executive producers, I talked to the people that, that run unscripted. One of the challenges they have with the alumni from the Bachelor is that we have a polished show. Our fan base is hyper, hyper, hyper, hyper critical of us as a result of it. We come off too polished, too media trained. And I know this fans are going to hear this big. You're kidding me. Do you want me to send you 100 examples of people from the Bachelor franchise that are not media trained or polished? But that's what the producers say. And we are harder to make good TV with because we've seen so much and our guard is so high. So I do agree with you, Kelly, that bringing someone fresh in eliminates those walls that are up. Because the other thing people don't know is the alumni in so many circles we talk so fluently about what was your experience, who was your producer, how did they produce you, what happened here, what did you hear from them? So like we have so much information, the alumni base that it is hard to go into the lead and actually put on a good show.
- [27:04]
C
David and and also if I could chime in here guys. And also too something that I did notice is people who have a strong stance that they know who they are and they know what they want, that's not necessarily favorable for, for the producers. You know, they want you to be, to be able to bend. They want you to be like, do this. And even if that person doesn't necessarily agree with that decision. Listen, I came up with one of the most dramatic scenes seasons ever because it was like this way, that way, this way, that way and everyone loved it. It was polarizing. But I think if you had someone who was extremely strong willed and like it's just, I think it's a producer's nightmare.
- [27:47]
B
I hear that. I back to J to touch on Jason's comment quick about Bachelor Nation alarms being, you know, what seems like polished or walls up. It's because people don't genuinely go on. People who, I think the people who end up going far and becoming, you know, quote unquote celebrities, influencers, well known people from the show don't go, don't go on for the, with the mission to get super famous. Whereas a lot of people who go on Netflix shows are too hard to handle. A love island, etc could be. So I think that that comes with it a little bit where they, they're not yearning for the spotlight incredibly bad when they get off the show. But look, listen, they made the right choice business wise for what they wanted, which is clear, which is ratings because we've never done an emergency podcast before based on the announcement of the Bachelorette. So here we are talking about it. Nick Viall is happy because he said he predicted this three months ago they got Caller Daddy involved, which is one of the biggest podcasts out there. They're doing their job. So haha jokes on me, but I still, I come, I'm coming at it from an OG core of like, what has this show become? It's like sad. It's like when you, it's like when you go drive to your hometown, you see your childhood home you grew up in. And, and they did like, it looks completely different and it just sucks. It just sucks to see that they modernize it so bad that you don't even recognize all the good feelings that you had from it.
- [29:09]
A
I will say this. I think majority of the fan base, the true fans, are not overly thrilled about it. I just looked at my, I put up an Instagram post like, I don't know, a story 20 minutes ago asking if people are excited about it. You know, obviously not all my followings from bachelor nation. Over 10,000 people responded in 20 minutes and the count is 62% said they're not. But I don't think that this decision is made for the existing watchers. I think it's to get new watchers and I think if that is their goal, which it has to be their goal because they need more social currency. They meet, they need more relevancy. Otherwise the show's gone. For business purposes, it's a good choice. The question is how long does that choice last and is it good for the, the long run of the identity? David, I'll kick it to you and then, Kelly, we'll get some last minute thoughts from you.
- [29:58]
B
Yeah, my only question to you too, and I think I know the answer to it, but I'm going to ask it anyways. Do you think that the show has a better chance of being successful long term by maximizing their original audience, their die hard fans who made them what they are, or ignoring those fans and going this new direction and try and make big splashes in a new audience and, and, and capitalize with the social media currency long term, what do they have the better chance to be successful?
- [30:23]
A
Kelly?
- [30:24]
C
I mean, I see both sides on that. I don't really know the answer to that one, but I, you know, I don't think, I think the numbers of the true die hard fans are low right now. So I, I don't know if they just start pertaining to those die hards, you know, I, I don't know if they would just come back with a regular season. So this is a massive switch up. It's, it's a risk, but I don't really have the answer to that one. David. I think something massive need to be done. This is a massive change. And you know what? I just hope, I'm literally, I just hope the producers truly have Taylor's back and they're not setting her up from failure. I watched Secret Lives of Mormon Wives and that girl has gone through so much trauma publicly already. I'm just praying whether it's pulling in old cast or old friends to help her navigate whatever it is. But I genuinely just hope the best for her and I genuinely hope that they have her best interests. And I know a lot of this decision is for ratings, but just, you know, protect her. She's a human at the end of the day.
- [31:31]
B
100% agree.
- [31:34]
A
100% agree. Perfectly said by Kelly. I think that's a. That's a good way to. To kind of end this is. They're making change, David. I don't think if they stayed on the same trajectory that they were with the same model, the show would be around too much longer. But that being said, I will say it feels like a lot of the decisions they've made, staying on the same path maybe haven't been the best. So it's like, did you give it the fair go? We'll see. And then the question becomes, if it works, what do you do?
- [32:07]
B
What's next?
- [32:08]
A
Is the next Bachelor, you know, from the season? Is it Harry?
- [32:12]
B
Harry, Harry, Josie.
- [32:13]
A
Well, you can't do that because he's. No, because he's at a. Right. Don't forget, Secret Lives of Mormon Wives is under the ABC network. So you can't go to Harry. He's got a show at Netflix. So what do you do? Is the question. I don't know. I'll tell you this. I'm excited to watch. I too, agree with Kelly. Have her back. Let's give, like, I really hope for a good ending here on all areas. We want the Bachelor Bachelorette to crush. I'll say this, though. I'm going to be straight up with this one. I'm not really excited at all for Golden Bachelor. No, no, they lost me. That guy lost me at his press conference. Talking about the. The women in ages and looks. You lost me right there. No, it's like, like this one. I get. I get why people. This is controversial. It's polarizing. People are talking about it, but it's gonna put asses in seats. His crush, I think, like Golden Bacher. I'm good.
- [33:06]
B
Yeah. No emergency press conference for that because enough was already said. So.
- [33:10]
A
Okay. All right. Anyone have any last minute thoughts? I'll start with you. Kelly, Wrap this puppy up.
- [33:15]
C
I'm. I'm excited to watch. It's Jason. It's. It's new. It's different. It's, you know, change, which not many people like change. I don't really like change, but I'm weirdly excited for this one. I, you know, you Know my friend Sophie and she reminds me so much of Taylor.
- [33:32]
A
So Sophie would make the best TV of all time ever.
- [33:36]
C
She would make the best or literally opposites. But we love each other so much. But yeah, I, I'm rooting for Taylor and I hope she has a great season. I will be tuned in and I think it's bringing a whole new fan base. I think hopefully it does revive the franchise. I, I, you know, I think that it needs to be done. So it's either that or it's a bust. And I would hate to see that happen.
- [34:00]
A
David.
- [34:02]
B
Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, we want to see this, the franchise do well. So if I have to put a sock in my mouth and say I told you so, then good for me. Okay. I live in.
- [34:13]
A
Kelly's got a question for you. David.
- [34:15]
B
Yeah, I love to hear it.
- [34:16]
C
And you're, in your opinion, what do you think the best thing to do to revive this franchise? You think just going with like a pick that's already been in the franchise is still going to work?
- [34:29]
B
I do, but like I said at the start, I think if they really wanted to, to get an understanding, they would find a way to find out. They would have people be able to vote or submit or have some kind of knowledge. The Bachelor's gonna Bachelor and they're gonna do their things. And I think what they're doing right now is, is smart for the ratings and the views. And my whole energy of this whole thing has came from an OG who watched this for, you know, God forbid I say the right reasons and I know that there's people lined up that a lot of people would love see in that seat. But I'm not gonna sit here and say what they're doing is dumb from a ratings point of view. I just don't see it fitting in the way that we, the Bachelor that we know and love. I don't see the ending ending in that way. And that's okay because it's going to be great. TV and asses are going to be put in the seats and we're all going to be talking about it. But if it ends the way we all think it's going to end, which is not in a relationship because of things that you guys talked about with what this person's going to have to sign up for, lifestyle wise and, and what they're going to have to get through to get there, where do we go next? Do we take another polarizing male and put them in the seed and see how it reacts and put females in the same situation where they're going to have to sign up to date someone with such a past and get over that and want to sign out for that part of life. How, how, how long can that go for? So I guess we'll find out. And at the end of the day, there's a lot of great alums that will still be there if this doesn't work out, if they need to go one step forward to take two steps back to, to figure it out. So.
- [35:58]
A
Yeah.
- [35:58]
C
David, I have another question for you. Do you agree that the fan base choosing is not always going to be the greatest lead for producers?
- [36:11]
B
Oh, yeah, A hundred percent. One hundred percent. At the end of the day, like I said, the Bachelor's gonna bachelor the. I think too what I've heard, and correct me if I'm wrong, the executive producer and the people behind the scenes is so drastically different in the last few years than it was from the show that you guys were even on.
- [36:28]
C
So it's the producer that I was with, they struggled with me, so they put me with one of the exacts and now she's running the game. She's amazing. I actually love her.
- [36:38]
A
She's great.
- [36:39]
B
Yeah. So.
- [36:40]
A
So you can handle Kelly Flanagan. You can handle anyone.
- [36:44]
B
Yeah. So I think that they're doing what they feel that they have to do. And at the end of the day, it is tv. So I can get out of my small little head and realize the bigger picture that it is TV and it's going to be entertaining tv. But like, I err on the side with you. I just feel for her getting put in the situation that she's going to be forced to make good TV with a cast who maybe not be genuine. And I see it for what it is and I get it. I just don't like it.
- [37:09]
C
I just personally think that a person who comes off the show and is absolutely adored the majority of the times in a producer's eyes, would be a terrible lead. And I've seen it time and time again. You see a person that you really, really want the fan base loves. And then producers are like, absolutely not. There's just certain qualities that a lead needs to have and some of them are not maybe the, I don't know, strongest personality. Maybe like not 100% knowing who they are yet, still trying to figure out life still in a mix of trying to figure things out. But when you have someone who totally has their shit together, that's like a. Almost a red flag to producers.
- [37:52]
B
I agree and I Hear that?
- [37:53]
A
I think in TV you need someone that the world is cheering for or you need someone that the world wants to talk about good or bad or someone that they just don't like. Because you need noise, right? Like you just need noise to provide enough win to make a show or to make a brand sale. And if you have no noise, that won't do it. We can all agree this decision has created massive, massive noise in the franchise. The other thing I think it'll do, which we haven't talked about yet, is it will get public figures, celebrities, creators, influencers back talking about the show back in the day, the biggest celebrities, Jennifer Aniston, all these celebrities used to tweet and talk about this. Now it's non existent. You know those people will be there. What we also do know from everything we've seen is majority of the current fan base isn't thrilled about it. So I don't know. We'll see. Does anyone have any last minute thoughts before we wrap?
- [38:56]
B
My last thought, I would rather see Kelly, I'd rather see you as the bachelorette over Rachel, Kirk Connell and Taylor, Frankie, Paul, any day. So there you go. That's my final thought.
- [39:04]
A
David is. David is Team Bachelor alumni. Kelly, final thought.
- [39:10]
C
I appreciate it, that's very sweet of you, but again, I think I'm maybe a little too scarred with it.
- [39:16]
A
A little too scarred, a little too protected. A lot of action here. I'm glad we got to talk the business side of it. It'll be fascinating to see what the numbers look like if we get enough response from this podcast. You guys are interested in us three covering it, Maybe we'll do just that. But thank you for tuning into a. Actually, you know what, guys, it's trading secrets. Give me your trading secret of the week. David, Kelly, who wants to go first? You gotta give me your trading secret of the week. What are you working on? What's. What's hot? What's. What's something you can give the audience. Who wants to go first?
- [39:48]
C
Perfect. I literally just ordered a Lyft instead of an Uber because it was half the price. So sometimes I make sure to look at both to see which one's cheaper. And guess What? Lyft was 50% less.
- [40:01]
A
Oh, I like that. That's a good financial trading secret. David.
- [40:05]
B
The only thing I can think about when it comes to big picture stuff or trading secrets always has to do with my current state of life compared to my past state of life and what my future state of life is going to be. And with A toddler and a baby on the way. I always think about how the good old days are always going to be the present days in your future time. And so just try as hard as it is sometimes when your life is crazy to enjoy where you're currently at, because whether your past has been greater or worse than your current, you have the opportunity to really enjoy those moments because your future, you're in control of. So that's.
- [40:42]
A
I love that. That is perfectly, perfectly said. I'm gonna get a little trinkseek. For me, I feel like the last two years have been. Last seven years of life has been a roller coaster, highs, lows. And I think for me to live in a peace, a state of calm and peace, I've really had to figure a lot out. Some of what I had to figure out I've actually talked in therapy today about actually is just like tolerance with inappropriate behavior and understanding. Like when people are crossing boundaries when things are inappropriate and not building a tolerance for that, because that tolerance will continue to get higher and higher and higher and it'll bleed toxicity into your life in all different ways. So take care of yourself out there. And you know what? Stay present because time is flying. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Training Secrets. One hopefully you couldn't afford to miss.
- [41:30]
C
Money money.
- [41:34]
A
Making that money money Living that dream Making that money.
- [41:43]
B
Making that.
- [41:44]
C
Money Living that dream.
- [41:50]
D
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- [42:20]
E
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