Presenting Up and Vanished Weekly: Peter Van Sant discusses Mark Stover

Summary

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress, and the Bodyguard Hosted by CBS News

Summary

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress, and the Bodyguard delves deep into the dark and complex story surrounding Mark Stover, a renowned dog trainer known as the "Dog Whisperer of the Pacific Northwest." Hosted by CBS News correspondent Peter Van Sant, this six-episode podcast meticulously unpacks a tragic love triangle that culminated in murder, exploring themes of obsession, fear, and the fragility of human relationships.

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Introduction to the Case

The narrative begins on October 28, 2009, in the quiet town of Anacortes, Washington. Stephanie Poor, an employee at Mark Stover's dog training business, arrives at his residence only to find a disturbing scene—bloodstains, fresh tire marks, and the unsettling odor of bleach. Mark Stover is nowhere to be found, setting off a chain of events that would unravel a web of deceit and violence.

Mark Stover: The "Dog Whisperer"

Mark Stover's journey from a troubled childhood to becoming a celebrated dog trainer is central to understanding the ensuing drama. Gifted a German shepherd puppy as a teenager, Mark found purpose and solace in training dogs, eventually building a successful business catering to high-profile clients like Eddie Vedder of Pearl Jam, Chris Cornell of Soundgarden, and Howard Schultz, then CEO of Starbucks. His charisma and expertise earned him the moniker "Dog Whisperer of the Pacific Northwest."

The Relationship with Linda Opdyke

In 1992, Mark partnered with Linda Opdyke, the daughter of millionaire Wally Opdyke, to launch a dog training business. Their professional relationship blossomed into a marriage in 2002. However, post-marriage, Linda began to notice a stark transformation in Mark. He became aggressive, controlling, and obsessively monitored her finances and expenditures. By 2005, after 14 years together, the couple separated. Linda attempted to move on, but Mark's obsession intensified, leading to relentless stalking and threatening behavior.

Linda Opdyke (Timestamp 07:42): "I am so curious about your opinions. And I wasn't gonna ask, but I am so curious."

Introducing Michael Oakes: The Bodyguard

Fearing for her safety, Linda sought the protection of Michael Oakes, a self-taught security expert and single father of four. Michael became Linda's protector and soon the new love of her life. This development further fueled Mark Stover's jealousy and obsession, escalating the tension between the parties involved.

The Fateful Morning: October 28, 2009

On the morning of October 28, 2009, Michael Oakes received a message from Mark Stover, expecting him to bring wedding photos to meet at Mark's residence. Believing he could reason with Mark, Michael complied. However, the confrontation turned violent when Mark, armed with a gun, shot Michael in the Kevlar vest he was wearing. In a dramatic struggle, Michael managed to wrestle the gun away and fatally shot Mark. Panicked, Michael attempted to conceal Mark's body, eventually disposing of it in a nearby waterway. Despite his efforts, inconsistencies in his account raised suspicions, leading to his arrest and subsequent conviction for first-degree murder.

Peter Van Sant (Timestamp 25:40): "So did Michael Ochs act in self-defense or was this a personal vendetta against Mark?"

The Trial and Conviction

Michael Oakes was charged with premeditated murder, pleading not guilty. The prosecution painted him as a vigilante who took matters into his own hands, while the defense argued that Michael acted in self-defense against a dangerous stalker. The trial was intense, featuring 50 witnesses and 700 pieces of evidence. Ultimately, the jury found Michael guilty, sentencing him to 26 and a half years in prison.

Unanswered Questions and New Perspectives

Over a decade later, Peter Van Sant revisits the case through his podcast, Trained to Kill, seeking to uncover unresolved mysteries and discrepancies in Michael Oakes' account. Peter expresses skepticism about the official narrative, highlighting:

• Discrepancies in Michael's Story: Michael claimed to have dumped Mark's body in a slough, but extensive searches with submersibles yielded no results. Peter questions how Michael knew specific details about Mark’s appearance and habits necessary to create a plausible cover story.

• Linda Opdyke’s Role: Linda's unwavering support for Michael and her transformation into a fortress equipped with firearms suggest deeper complexities in her relationship with both Mark and Michael.

• Security Camera Footage: Videos captured Michael at Mark’s residence shortly before the murder, raising questions about his intentions and movements that contradict his claims of self-defense.

Peter Van Sant (Timestamp 37:56): "I do not buy Michael Oakes's story for a moment."

Exploring Human Nature and Obsession

Peter delves into the psychological aspects of the case, emphasizing how base emotions like obsession, anger, and jealousy can drive individuals to extreme actions. He discusses how even successful and intelligent individuals can succumb to these primal instincts, leading to tragic outcomes.

Peter Van Sant (Timestamp 29:25): "It's one of the great levelers of human beings… Obsession and anger, hate, jealousy, envy. And regardless of how successful you are or how important you may be in this world, it's amazing how those emotions can take people down."

The Quest for Truth

Peter aims to shed light on the unresolved elements of the case, hoping that renewed interest and investigative fervor from listeners might unearth new evidence or perspectives. He underscores the importance of questioning established narratives and remaining open to alternative explanations.

Peter Van Sant (Timestamp 39:43): "I believe that he took the body because when he drove back to Linda's place… I believe he pulled off somewhere and dumped the body there. And the reason why he won't even to this day, because we, we asked him… He won't change his story today because that body, if recovered, of course, it would just be bones."

Conclusion

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress, and the Bodyguard presents a compelling examination of a case that intertwines personal relationships, power struggles, and the darkness that can lurk beneath seemingly successful lives. Through meticulous investigation and critical analysis, Peter Van Sant invites listeners to reconsider what they thought they knew and to ponder the complexities of human behavior when pushed to the brink.

For those intrigued by the lingering questions and the possibility of uncovering new truths, Peter's podcast serves as both a tribute to thorough journalism and a call to action for amateur sleuths to engage and assist in piecing together the full story.

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Notable Quotes:

• Linda Opdyke (01:01): "Up and vanish weekly is released every Wednesday and brought to you absolutely free… Thank you for your support."

• Peter Van Sant (29:25): "It's one of the things that in true crime, people can do the smartest people can do the dumbest things. And that's part of the fascination."

• Michael Ochs (26:44): "They’re dead."

• Peter Van Sant (45:50): "It's trained to kill the dog trainer, the heiress, and the bodyguard. I've read it about 15 times."

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Trained to Kill not only revisits a chilling true crime case but also challenges listeners to engage deeply with the intricacies of human emotion and the pursuit of justice.

Transcript

[Peter Van Sant]

The first season of CBS's new hit NCIS Origins.

[Maggie Freeling]

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[Payne Lindsay]

I will not run out nis. What the hell's that?

[Michael Ochs]

Naval Investigative Service.

[Peter Van Sant]

We go where the evidence takes us.

[Maggie Freeling]

We got this 88% fresh on rotten Tomatoes.

[Payne Lindsay]

You don't see folks trying to affect change, but here you are.

[Michael Ochs]

Ready to ride.

[Peter Van Sant]

Got a body waiting for us.

[Payne Lindsay]

Gives welcome to the team.

[Maggie Freeling]

Ready to ride. NCIS Origin Season 1 now streaming on Paramount.

[Peter Van Sant]

Now streaming.

[Maggie Freeling]

When everything's on the line, real heroes.

[Peter Van Sant]

Rise to the occasion.

[Payne Lindsay]

TV's hottest show is Fire Country.

[Maggie Freeling]

We're firefighters. We're gonna find a way to get you out of here.

[Payne Lindsay]

We take the hits together.

[Peter Van Sant]

We're on the same team. I'm right here with you.

[Linda Updike]

No matter what.

[Michael Ochs]

I would never leave you hanging in the deep end.

[Peter Van Sant]

This place is a way of giving you new family. Fire Country. All episodes now streaming on Paramount +.

[Linda Updike]

Up and vanish weekly is released every Wednesday and brought to you absolutely free, but for one week early access and ad free listening. Subscribe to Tenderfoot plus at tenderfootplus.com or on Apple Podcasts if you're already a subscriber. Thank you for your support.

[Michael Ochs]

This podcast discusses mature and sensitive content, including descriptions of violence that may be triggering for some audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Hey y' all. Welcome to up and Vanish Weekly. I'm your host, Maggie Freeling. Today's case isn't a whodunit per se. With a super urgent call to action, we mostly know what happened. Instead, this case is emblematic of the best and worst of human nature. This case is a love triangle and murder that has kept the attention of veteran journalist and award winning correspondent for 48 Hours, Peter Van Sant. Peter has had a nearly 50 year career as a journalist where his true crime and justice reporting is featured across multiple CBS News broadcasts and and platforms. Additionally, Peter hosts the Blood is Thicker podcast and Train to Kill, which we'll be talking about today. So Peter, thank you for joining me on up and Vanish Weekly. We are so excited to have you.

[Peter Van Sant]

I am even more excited to be here. Thanks so much for having me.

[Michael Ochs]

Okay, so to start, I just want to let listeners know, if they don't know who you are, one of the correspondents for 48 hours. For how many years now?

[Peter Van Sant]

Around 20 years. For 48 hours. 41 years with CBS News. I also worked in Idaho, Iowa, Nebraska, Texas and Georgia before I got to the network. So it's been a long journey to say the least. But I love it.

[Michael Ochs]

Nearly 50 years as a reporter and Correspondent. That is amazing. And I just want to list off some of your journalism accolades. Three Murrows, multiple Emmys, a Dupont. I mean, you have done some incredible work that's taken you to North Korea, Bosnia, Albania. You reported on September 11th, Katrina. I guess as a journalist, my question for you is what is that like to report on so many different kinds of stories?

[Peter Van Sant]

I love it. Back in the day, when I joined CBS News, you had to work your way up through local news. And so I had done a couple thousand stories before CBS hired me and working in Washington state and Idaho, Iowa, Nebraska, Arizona. But once you just have that natural curiosity. I'm one of these news nerds. When, when I was about five years old, I used to watch Walter Cronkite the CBS Evening News with my parents. And I started then. And once I got into junior high school, as we called it back then, middle school, we. I started to think, these reporters, they get to go to all these fascinating places and talk to interesting people and tell a story to the world. That's what I want to do. I mean, I'm really lucky. I decided in the eighth grade this is what I wanted to do.

[Michael Ochs]

When you became a journalist, did you ever think you would be in this true crime niche?

[Peter Van Sant]

When I first came to CBS News, honestly, my goal was to hopefully get to 60 minutes. I wanted to. To get there. I was based in London. I covered the world. The Gulf War, the collapse of the Soviet Union, famine in Africa and things. I saw myself on that path. But also, as you're covering the news, true crime is part of the news. To me, true crime is the canary in the mineshaft of our culture, of our civilization. I think why you guys are fascinated with it, why I'm fascinated with it is that it's a daily gut check on the status of our morality and where we are, how kind we are or not kind to each other, our value of human life or not human life. And true crime has become this giant interest with people because it's all about us and the nature of who's committing these crimes, which fascinates me. There's this evolution on our show. More and more women are killing now. We're doing more shows about women planning the murder of a spouse and the importance of what we do. Human life. There's nothing more important. I think it fuels all of us to tell these stories as completely and as honestly directly as we can. And that's what I owe my audience and that's what I love to bring to any project. I'm working on.

[Michael Ochs]

Yeah. So that actually gets us to Train to kill. So 2011 you did a two part series and then you have now come back over a decade later to do it in podcast format. Tell me a little specifically about Train to Kill. How is the podcast different than your 48 Hours investigation?

[Peter Van Sant]

Well, I look at our 48 Hour story as, as a magazine piece and, and podcasts that we do now, that's the movie and we had shot at the time an enormous amount of material. We actually got to Linda Updike, the heiress in this story. And at the center of this love triangle, I interviewed her three times before she had any significant interview with police. I got to interview Michael Oakes before the world heard of his story because he, he told that for the first time in court and I had interviewed him prior to that. To get in all of this detail that we have, you can't fit it in even when you do a 2 hour, 48 hours. We just have so much more to explore. So to have all that material, to have a podcast now where we have six parts is a dream, a journalistic dream for me.

[Michael Ochs]

Right. And I know this particular story is close and important to you. I mean, you've come back and covered it again after a decade. So let's take a few minutes to cover the basics of the case and then we'll get to your experience investigating it. Peter.

[Maggie Freeling]

It's Wednesday, Oct. 28, 2009 in Anacortes, Washington, a small town on Fidalgo Island, 80 miles north of Seattle. The early morning chill still hangs in the air as Stephanie Poor begins her commute to work. Her usual routine was to start her day at her boss Mark's home based business. Stephanie is leaving a voice message for Mark as she approaches the residence. As she nears, she spots a figure loading something into the hatch of a wife white station wagon parked in the driveway. She quickly identifies the trademark coat and brown hat and even from a distance she can tell it looks like Mark. He appears rushed, hurriedly climbing into the car, glancing around before hastily driving down the path. As Stephanie parks her car in the driveway, her eyes are drawn to the fresh tire marks and small spots of blood on the gravel hinting at recent chaos. She makes her way up to the house where she's hit with the unmistakable odor of bleach lingering in the air. When she enters the home, she can see three big dark red spots on the floor. Confused and unsettled, Stephanie's mind races, trying to make sense of the strange sights and smells around her. Then she remembers that Mark's dog, Dingo, has been recovering from a recent surgery. Had there been some kind of complication? Stephanie grabs for her phone, hoping to reach Mark and confirm that everything is alright. But there's no answer. As the morning progresses and Mark remains unreachable, Stephanie and the rest of the employees grow increasingly worried. When the details of the morning's events finally reveal themselves, one thing becomes disturbingly clear. The scene concealed a deeper, darker and more complicated story. From Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta. This is up and Vanish weekly with Payne, Lindsay and Maggie Freeling.

[Michael Ochs]

The story of what happened to Mark Stover, to me, is representative of the worst in human nature. And what can happen to, I believe, any of us when backed up against a wall and feeling desperate. It's a love triangle and so it can be confusing to follow who is who. So let me try to break down who the main players are. Let's start with Mark Stover. Mark had a rough childhood. He lost his father, half brother and sister at a super young age. It made his mom really distant. So Mark's life was basically about survival. When he was a teenager, he was gifted a German shepherd puppy. And Mark and this puppy immediately bonded and he developed a passion for dogs. This dog gave him purpose and helped turn his life around. So Mark eventually studied dogs and became a dog quote guru and started a successful dog training business with high profile clients. Some Seattle local celebrities like Pearl Jams lead singer Eddie Vedder, Soundgarden's Chris Cornell, and Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz. The business was super successful. He was called the dog trainer to the stars or the dog whisperer of the Pacific Northwest. So that is Mark Stover, celebrity dog trainer. Linda Opdyke is the daughter of a multimillionaire, Wally Opdyke. He is an entrepreneur in the Washington state community. And so Linda hires Mark Stover, the celebrity dog trainer, to train her dogs. They meet regularly for dog training and eventually the two of them connect and start building a relationship. In 1992, the couple launches a dog dog business together. And then in 2002, they were married. But after the marriage is when things take a turn. Linda says Mark's demeanor changed. He became aggressive and developed a reputation of threatening and intimidating people. She says he would get easily angered over finances and became obsessive over how she spent money. In 2005, after 14 years of being together, they separated. And by 2006, Linda says she was moving on. But Mark wasn't. She says he virtually started stalking her. He would call her 50 to 100 times a day. With threats. One of them being, quote, this is war. This is God damn war. Her home security camera showed him stalking her house in the night. And at one time he broke into her home in the middle of the night with a gun. A year later, 2007, Mark agrees to a divorce, but is apparently obsessing over their wedding photos and leaves her a message. You know, I'm a guy that can hold a grudge until I'm dead and I can hurt you too. And I know how to do it. Linda calls the police, but they say they don't have enough evidence to arrest him for stalking, which sounds odd to me. She has a video of it, but, you know, either way, Linda starts training herself in self defense. She stocks her home with 20 guns and seeks out more security. This is how she finds Michael Oakes. We'll be right back after a quick break.

[Payne Lindsay]

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[Michael Ochs]

And we're back. Michael Oakes is a weapons expert, self taught security expert. He's a single father to four. His second wife says that Michael has a superhero mentality. He's strong enough to take out any bad guy who's harming the weak. So Michael and Linda, they get in a relationship and he and his children move into her house. At this point, Mark is still in the picture, allegedly stalking Linda. Mark's friends and family say he's moved on from Linda. He's in a serious relationship. He's in a good place. Things are looking good. Up. The new woman who he's with says he was nothing like Linda described and that Linda was the one causing problems. To me, this is a nightmare with children involved, guns involved and desperate people. And this is where things begin to really digress. Here's Rob with more.

[Maggie Freeling]

According to Michael Oakes, once he became involved with Linda, Mark's harassing behavior shifted towards him. He claims that over time, Mark began threatening him and he began to fear for his family's safety. Michael said that eventually Mark contacted him and asked him to meet at his house. On the morning of October 28, 2009 Mark was expecting Michael to bring Mark and Linda's wedding photos. Even though Michael didn't have the photos, he felt he could reason with Mark and convince him to let things go. According to Michael's accounts of events, around 2:30am that Wednesday morning, he left Linda's home in Winthrop, Washington, roughly four hours from anacortes. Around 5:30am Michael stopped at a Walmart in Anacortes. He purchased a backpack, some weights, shin guards, rope and a camo, sweatshirt and pants. He would later state that he purchased the supplies to climb and hide in a nearby water tower in case things escalated. Shortly before 6am Michael parked his black SUV outside of Marsh property and walked to Mark's house. Once he was inside, Mark confronted him about the photos. When Michael told him he didn't have them, Mark told him to wait in the hallway and went outside. When Mark came back, he had a gun and shot Michael, striking him in the Kevlar vest he was wearing. Michael wrestled the gun away from Mark, shooting him during the frenzy. When Michael realized Mark was dead, he felt nobody would believe his story. So he began to load the body into Mark's white station wagon. Around 8am One of Mark's employees arrived and saw Michael loading Mark in the vehicle, so he quickly left. Around 11:45am Michael transferred Mark's body to his SUV before eventually dumping the body in the waterway behind the nearby Northern Lights Casino. Michael parked Mark's station wagon in the casino parking lot before arriving back at Linda's home. Around 11:30pm the following morning, authorities received calls from Mark's girlfriend and his employees with concerns that something had happened to him. When they responded to Mark's residence, they discovered the grisly scene, which included blood in the bedroom, hallway, porch and driveway. They also found that Mark's dog Dingo had been shot multiple times but had somehow survived. At 7:40pm that evening, authorities arrived at Linda's home and asked to speak with Michael. Michael said that he had been in the area visiting his ex wife Jennifer. But during their questioning, Michael began acting strangely. He told police he had to grab some medication from his car and that he needed to roll up his car windows because it was raining. Moments later, an officer witnessed Michael take something from his car and throw it over an embankment. Authorities recovered the item, a bag which concealed a.22 caliber pistol. With strong evidence pointing towards Michael's potential involvement. Michael Ochs was arrested on suspicion of the murder of Mark Stover. But as an investigation ensued, authorities would soon learn that what really happened that morning was Much more tangled than they had first suspected.

[Michael Ochs]

This simplified timeline is only part of the story. Once Michael was arrested, more would be revealed. Authorities would soon discover that on October 24, 2009, Michael traveled to Anacortes at 7pm he arranged to meet with his ex wife Jennifer. And when they met, he told her he was in town for a job, but it was going to be dangerous. He left her home around 10pm telling her he needed to go take care of his job. The next day, Michael sent her an email that the job had failed, but he might be back in a few days. Authorities would state that the interaction with his ex wife in the days leading up to October 28th were very strange and may have been a failed first attempt by Michael to harm Mark. In the aftermath of Mark's death, when we now know that Michael had a close call with authorities. On the afternoon of October 28, when Michael moved Mark's remains to his SUV, he cut through the private property of a nearby residence. The owners of the property saw a man moving things from a white station wagon to a black suv and one of the women stated she felt the men may have been moving a body. So the women called authorities. Around 12:30pm the police located the SUV and pulled Michael over to question him about trespassing. The officer says he denied it, claiming he was making a phone call, but he looked nervous and it looked like his back seat was filled with camping gear. But due to the information at the time, the officer didn't suspect anything out of the ordinary. It wasn't until the following morning that authorities would respond to Mark's home and find the bloody scene. After his close call with police, Michael called his ex wife Jennifer and asked her to meet him at a nearby Starbucks. Jennifer would later state that when Michael arrived, he looked disheveled, had a rust colored stain on his jeans and asked if she knew where he could find some bleach. The two drove to the beach and when they arrived, Michael continued acting strange. At one point he disappeared for 20 minutes to use the bathroom and when he came back, he confided in her that he was in trouble. He told Jennifer that he had been pulled over earlier and said if they knew what was in his car, he would have been arrested and would go away for a long time. Understandably, Jennifer didn't know what to make of all this and she became scared so she didn't ask any more questions. With the revelation of these additional details, authorities felt Michael's account of things wasn't holding weight. But did this additional information point to Michael's guilt. Ultimately, it would be up to a jury to decide. Here's Rob with how the trial unfolded.

[Maggie Freeling]

Michael Ochs was arrested and charged with first degree premeditated murder. He pleaded not guilty and after posting bail, was released pending trial. As the state prepared their case, police continued to search for Mark's remains but were unable to find where Michael had dumped him. Authorities asked Michael for more information, but he refused to work with authorities, stating he wanted to wait until the trial to give more details. Finally, In September of 2010, Michael's trial began. There would be a total of 50 witnesses called and 700 pieces of evidence entered during the proceedings. For his defense, Michael hired attorney John Henry Brown, who previously defended Ted Bundy. When Michael was called to the standard, he began by discussing the nature of he and Linda's relationship. He explained the circumstances of how the two had met, how she had been concerned for her safety, and how he had been hired to help her improve her security. He then explained how over time, Mark began stalking and threatening him and his children. The defense made the case that Michael was a loving father and husband with no history of violence and that Mark was a dangerous stalker with a proven track record of aggression and making threats. When things went south that morning, Michael acted in self defense. In stark contrast to the defense's claims, the prosecution made the case that despite Mark's previous actions, Michael took matters into his own hands and murdered Mark in the act of vigilante justice. They pointed to Michael and Jennifer's multiple interactions on October 24th and 28th and the nature of their discussions. They presented evidence of the shell casings at Mark's house that matched the gun Michael tried to dispose of. A ballistics expert testified that the angle and location of the shot in Michael's Kevlar vest most likely proved he shot himself. Forensic experts explained that the bloodstains on the porch, hallway, walls, carpet and bedroom matched the sample inside Michael's SUV. After a month long trial, the jury deliberated for four days before finding Michael guilty of first degree murder, where he was sentenced to 26 and a half years in prison. But despite the jury's findings, a lingering question remains. On the morning of October 28, 2009, Michael was Mark Stover the hunter or the hunted?

[Michael Ochs]

So did Michael Ochs act in self defense or was this a personal vendetta against Mark? When we come back, we'll bring you the rest of my discussion with Peter Van Santa.

[Payne Lindsay]

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[Maggie Freeling]

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[Payne Lindsay]

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[Maggie Freeling]

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[Michael Ochs]

911 6Emergency yes, somebody killed two girls. My grandbabies and my friend.

[Peter Van Sant]

They're dead.

[Michael Ochs]

They're dead.

[Payne Lindsay]

A Paramount plus original.

[Peter Van Sant]

She wants to find more young women for him to kill.

[Payne Lindsay]

The untold stories of the real cases.

[Peter Van Sant]

Each one he gets away with.

[Payne Lindsay]

He's emboldened the FBI can't shake.

[Peter Van Sant]

It's very satisfying to be able to.

[Maggie Freeling]

Look at a bad guy and go, we never forgot you.

[Payne Lindsay]

An all new season of FBI True streaming now on Paramount plus.

[Michael Ochs]

And now here's John with this week's critical missing case.

[Linda Updike]

So this week's case comes to us from WYFF News 4. According to authorities, on Thursday, May 8, 2025, 18 year old Donovan Dempsey left the Spartanburg, South Carolina area and his family hasn't seen or heard from him since. Donovan's father, David Said, said the last time he spoke to his son was that Thursday. He says that he believed that Donovan was in an Uber heading to his girlfriend's house in Spartanburg. A short time later, Donovan's loved ones lost the ability to track his location on his phone and his phone was eventually turned off. Now, according to his Uber account, instead of going to his girlfriend's house, Donovan took an Uber to Columbia where he attends the University of South Carolina. Donovan was last seen wearing a white T shirt, a gray sweatshirt, black pants and white and black shoes. According to his family, he didn't bring a backpack and he didn't have any other clothes with him. As far as they know, Donovan only had his phone and his wallet. Listeners, we need your help in spreading the word about Donovan Dempsey. You could check out the UP and Vantage weekly Instagram page avweekly. You could see a picture of Donovan and you can share our post. To help get more visibility, anyone with information about Donovan is asked to call South Carolina Crime Stoppers at 1-888-CRIMESC.

[Michael Ochs]

All right, we're back. You've now heard the story of the deadly love triangle between Michael, Linda and Mark. A tragic, avoidable death that doesn't leave a whodunit Question. We know Michael killed Mark, but is there more to this story? That brings us to Peter Van Sant's new podcast, Trained to Kill. Peter backing up. In 2011, you did a two part series for 48 hours during Michael's trial and now you've come back over a decade later to do it in podcast format. And one of the reasons I heard you say is that you wanted to, to do this because you have more room in the podcast to explore the human nature of what happened.

[Peter Van Sant]

I do. One of the great levelers of human beings, whether you are wealthy or poor, whether you're highly educated or not, are the base instinctual emotions that all of us are born with. Obsession and anger, hate, jealousy, envy. And regardless of how successful you are or how important you may be in this world, it's amazing how those emotions can take people down. The smartest and the brightest among us, they can be taken down by these base instinctual emotions. And in this case, that's what you have. A perfect example of. Linda Updike. Her father, Wally updike, owned Chateau St. Michel winery in the state of Washington. It's the largest winery there and one of the largest in the United States. He also owned K2, which was a snow ski, snowboarding company and they sell all over the world. It's interesting because I'm from up there. One of my good buddies, his wife was friends growing up with Linda Updike. And so I had ways of connecting with her because of the fact I was from the state of Washington in the Seattle area and I knew Anacortes so well and I knew people who knew her. She took me to her home, basically her hideout in Winthrop, Washington, about 160 miles from anacortes on the other side of the Cascade Mountains. And I had no idea what I would be running into when I got there, which was fascinating. She, she turned her house into a, an armory, into a fortress. And as we're walking around, she would lift a tapestry and there would be a handgun on a magnet on the wall. She'd open a drawer, there would be a handgun. In a closet would be a shotgun. There wasn't a amount of space more than six feet where she didn't have a firearm that she could get to. But here's someone who had everything and yet she gets caught up in this with these base emotions. Mark Stover, the dog trainer to the stars, Eddie Vedder of Pearl Jam was one of his clients. Ichiro Howard Schultz, who at the time was the chairman of Starbucks. Here's a man who had who had come from poverty, built a, along with Linda, a million dollar a year dog training business. And he falls prey to the most base emotions. And then when, when Michael Ochs joins the fray, he, according to him anyway, is threatened by Stover. Including a reference to possibly harming Oakes kids, which freaked him out. And then all of these people in this churn of emotion, we end up with this tragedy. So it's one of the things that in true crime, people can do the smartest people can do the dumbest things. And that's part of the fascination. And with the time we have to tell this story, you go down that road of obsessive behavior and control. And Mark Stover demanding meeting after meeting. And demanding Michael Oakes turn over. Why this was his obsession, I don't know. His wedding photos with Linda. And they had these meetings after meetings. Because Linda didn't know where the wedding photos were in this move. She thought she'd left them behind. And it turned into this bizarre thing where they would meet and argue and confront. And according to Oakes, that last meeting was another one of these. Where he was coming into Anacortes to meet with Stover about the wedding photos. Then he goes into his house. And then Oakes claims there's this drama, there's this confrontation and a shot is fired. And that he just happened to be wearing a bulletproof vest just in case things got dangerous. And that he wrestled a gun away dramatically, like in a movie. Like the action hero that he is. I don't believe that story for a moment. By the way.

[Michael Ochs]

I am so curious about your opinions. And I wasn't gonna ask, but I. I'm glad you said that. Cause I am so curious.

[Peter Van Sant]

Yeah, I'm not buying. I. I do not buy Michael Oakes's story for a moment.

[Michael Ochs]

Well, so that brings me to two questions I have. I wanted to ask you. Have you ever turned the lens on yourself and thought, am I capable of these things? Knowing how level headed and smart and covering a million of these stories. Have you thought that? Are you. Some of these things you've seen these characters get into.

[Peter Van Sant]

First off, Maggie, you're safe. I don't. No matter how this interview goes, I. When I covered the Gulf War, it was the first time that I came face to face with the dark side. I was with a group of marines. And when we went into Kuwait and they're driving out the Iraqi army. You'd just be amazed when a gunship, one of your gunships goes overhead and they're strafing and you know, on the other side, the enemy who's trying to kill you is being obliterated. You know, it's. It's a whole different side that, that I didn't think was there. You see how quickly people from every walks of life turn into killers. It's those. It's those extremes, right? And in this case, in this story, we have people who believed their lives were in danger. Michael Ochs thought Stover was out to get him. Stover thought he had told his new girlfriend that he thought Linda Updike and perhaps her father were out to get. To get him. Linda Updike thought Mark Stover was out to get her. And she tells a story. When I was at her house, and this house is set in the countryside, and there was nothing really around her. It was just this rural area without trees. And she looks out her window, and there on the hillside is Mark Stover, according to Linda, holding a hunting rifle with a scope on it. And he's got it pointed at her. And she looks at it and the rifle, she's looking at the distance right down the barrel of that rifle. So she thought she was a, you know, a target, that he would eventually come upon her in an area where she was not protected. She believed she was going to be murdered by this man. And so when all those emotions come into play, some instinctual behavior, I would think, goes to the surface, and then anything is possible.

[Michael Ochs]

Besides your connection to Seattle. And knowing a lot of these places and backdrops, why come back to this story? I'm sure there's many you could come to, and this one is seemingly closed. Michael's in prison, so why come back to it?

[Peter Van Sant]

Mark Stover's body has never been recovered. The story that Michael Ochs told on the stand at that trial, I believe is an absolute lie. On the morning in which was the last time people believed Stover may have been alive, the morning that he was, was shot, an employee's at the base of the driveway, and she looks up and she sees Stover's white station wagon. And at the back end of it, she sees Mark Stover loading something into the back of that station wagon. Why did she think it was Mark? Well, because he was wearing his trademark wide brim hat and this. This dark sort of trench coat like thing. Stover closes the back and comes down the driveway, lies right past her. Well, Michael Ochs, how we know now, and he admitted because he said that he shot Stover, put his body in the back of this car, panicked, and he drove off. How would he know to put on Mark Stover's hat? How would he know to put on Mark Stover's trench coat? Who would have told him that? How would he know Mark Stover's patterns in the morning, what time he arrives at work? How would he know about where the dogs are? And the fact that Mark Stover had a Belgian exotic breed that Linda knew that dog was trained, that if Mark uttered one word and the family never told me what that word was, this dog would attack to kill another human being. That dog was shot three times in the head. How would he know all these things?

[Michael Ochs]

Linda maybe.

[Peter Van Sant]

I mean, look, they did this investigation and they questioned her extensively. They questioned her on the stand, I questioned her and in the course of this podcast, I'm very direct with her and she understood that when we were doing this interview, there was no topic that was going to be unchallenged in this. And it's listen to it and see what you think.

[Michael Ochs]

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[Payne Lindsay]

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[Maggie Freeling]

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[Peter Van Sant]

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[Payne Lindsay]

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[Linda Updike]

Hey listeners, if you have a tip or theories about a case you want to share or a case of interest you'd like to recommend to us, then we want to hear from you. Email us casesenderfoot tv, DM us on Instagram avweekly or give us a call at 770-545-6411. You can also join the conversation on our discord at discord gg/upandvanished. Now back to the show.

[Michael Ochs]

I do find it fascinating that Michael will not say where the body is. You know, he said where he put it. Quote, I'm doing air quotes, but it's not there.

[Peter Van Sant]

We know that after he left, he drove down about 30 miles to Everett, Washington to meet with this is Oaks with his ex wife. He says to her, if cops knew what was in the back of my vehicle right now I'm paraphrasing, I'd go away to prison for life. We know now the body was in the back of that vehicle. But at trial he said that he took it down to this. There's a body of water called a slough. It's a river that goes into the saltwater bay there. And he claims that he dumped his body in the slough. Well, it's very shallow, and the bay that it flows into at low tide is all sand. And they took a submersible. They looked everywhere. There's no body there. And I believe that he took the body because when he drove back to Linda's place on the eastern side of Washington State, going through the Cascade Mountain range, there are dozens and dozens of logging roads. I believe he pulled off somewhere and dumped the body there. And the reason why he won't even to this day, because we, we asked him, we spoke with him before we, we did our final act on this, where's the body? He said, I, I dumped it in the river. He won't change his story today because that body, if recovered, of course, it would just be bones. But I, I believe it would have a skull that has a bullet hole in it. It's not the story that he, that he told. And within the podcast, I'm hoping that this will fuel more discussion among law enforcement as well. And because I still think this is a case that has unanswered questions, that there are people living today who know those answers. You know, Maggie, what this is like, People tend over the course of time to tell confidential stories to friends, associates, people they trust, family members or things. I still think the truth is out there somewhere. And I'm hoping that this spurs a greater discussion and perhaps a second look.

[Michael Ochs]

If the body is found, can they resentence him? Like, why won't he say where it is?

[Peter Van Sant]

Once his story is shown to be a lie, could they reopen? I believe they could reopen sentencing on that with dramatic new evidence like this. I think also, if that's a lie, what about other things that we heard during the course of this trial? Are those lies as well? I'm going to let your listeners and viewers use their own imagination because we want to be able to put this on and have that discussion. But it may open up other venues toward other people. In this case, don't forget that after Oakes goes to prison, Linda Updike raised one of his children and financially supported the others. She described their relationship at the time as a love affair that was legendary. That's the word that she used. We were able to speak with Michael Oakes, and he did not want to discuss the nature of his relationship today with Linda. He said, I'm not going to violate her privacy. And he didn't want to discuss the relationship with the children and things. But we Just know that she had, through others, that she raised one of his children. But there's so many currents that are running through this, so many questions still out there in this security camera video. This was not the night before the killing. This was a few days earlier where Michael Ochs is seen putting a case in the back of the his vehicle at Linda's house on the security camera. And it appears to be a gun case. And then they do a hug that goes on forever. And she's six foot tall, and he's five seven, five, six, and she's just draped over him on this hug. And that hug goes on for it's like 30 seconds. I always characterize it. It was like she was hugging her knight who was going off to slay a dragon. And it goes on forever now. I asked her about that. Oh, no. We just hate being apart. We love each other so much. He went over to the west side of the mountains and returned. And we know nothing happened during the course of that trip, but I've always thought that's a little precursor, perhaps, of something that was going to occur a few days later. And all of that is intriguing. And so I want people to get into this. Rack your true crime brains. The people who listen to your show, they're sleuths. They are amateur detectives. Some of them are much more savvy than I am. And let's see where this goes, because I just think this is not over, this story.

[Michael Ochs]

So, Peter, why. Where can folks find the podcast? What is it called? Tell us about it. Where can we go?

[Peter Van Sant]

It's trained to kill the dog trainer, the heiress, and the bodyguard. I've read it about 15 times. Wherever you get your podcasts, you can find this. But for those who are watching this, who are familiar with my work and know how hard I prepare for these things, I'm. I was deeply involved in the production of this, so it has the Van Sant brand on it. I am deeply committed to this story, and I just hope people take the time to listen. I think it is a fascinating tale and to have access like this, that we had to have interviewed Linda Updike three times. And by the way, she comes across in every interview as absolutely credible.

[Michael Ochs]

Mm.

[Peter Van Sant]

Michael Ochs, not so much. But we talk to everyone. The lead investigator, the defense attorneys, all of that. It's a fascinating presentation.

[Michael Ochs]

So what is next for you? You have this podcast out, Trained to Kill. We are also excited to listen.

[Peter Van Sant]

I. I really want to explore podcasting. I really want to get deeper and deeper into this. I'm Right now involved in three different podcasts. Besides Trained to Kill, we do post mor, which is after each 48 hours episode, we do a podcast about, you know, giving extra detail about that show. And then I'm working with another producer on our show. We're doing a podcast about killers that we've interviewed in the past. And we're doing one that I wrote a book on, co wrote a book on some years ago that is really cool.

[Michael Ochs]

Plug the book. What's it called?

[Peter Van Sant]

It's called Perfectly Executed is the name of the book. But it's a fascinating case. And anyway, we're doing a podcast about that. So. But these podcasts, you know, there's a lot of freedom here to be able to tell a story as completely as possible. And I really, I really love that.

[Michael Ochs]

I think that's why I did it too. And I think I've really enjoyed this interview because, you know, all the things that you've said about the human condition and human nature, and that is why I do podcasting as well. I have, I've. I thought about it when I entered this industry and I said, you know, there's something so intimate about a voice being in your ear and not seeing them, not being distracted by backgrounds or setting or like, why is this person in a warehouse for this interview? Things like that that you're just, like, distracted by. And I think that it's just so intimate to have a voice in your ear and that is what you're hearing. And you're creating this world based on what you're hearing. And that's why I like audio personally, and I'm excited for you to dive into that more.

[Peter Van Sant]

Yeah, well, just like in this, you know, when, when we start this thing off, that it's. In the early morning darkness in Anacortes, Washington, this woman arrives for work and she's hearing the howling of these dogs uncontrollably barking like they're werewolves. Now, what can we all do in our minds with that that we could never have done with our video camera? It's it. That's an exciting way to go. And that's why, you know, in radio, back in its infancy and they had all those plays on, on, on radio, the human mind can create the most incredible visuals if you've done a good job describing things that the human mind takes off and it makes for a limitless visual journey.

[Michael Ochs]

Peter, thank you so much for joining me. I could talk to you for five more hours, but I'm going to let you go because I know you are busy.

[Peter Van Sant]

Hey, thank you so much. I appreciate you having me on.

[Michael Ochs]

We may never know the full story of what happened to Mark Stover, and that's why Peter is determined to keep digging. But beyond that, one thing that stands out to me is the desperation these people feel to stay safe and keep their loved ones safe. And I think that's what Peter is homing in on. The story is about human nature and human condition, the things we do for love, for our families, and in instinct to stay alive when authority's hands are tied. There's certainly evidence that Mark was not innocent in all of this. But what's tragic is he seemed to be turning things around round before he was killed. Maybe he was moving on and this was a vendetta on Linda's behalf and a man with a hero complex wanting to save his damsel by any means. To this day, Michael, his four children, and Linda maintain his innocence. Y' all, thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of up and Vanish Weekly. Be sure to tune in next week as we dig into another new case. Until next time.

[Rob]

Up and Vanish Weekly is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Your hosts are Maggie Freeling and myself, Payne Lindsay. The show is written by Maggie Freeling, myself and John Street. Executive producers are Donald Albright and myself. Lead producer is John Street. Additional production by Meredith Stedman and Mike Rooney. Research for the series by Jamie Albright, Celicia Stanton and Carolyn Tallmadge. Edit and mix by Dylan Harrington and Sean Nurney. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Artwork by Byron McCoy. Original music by Makeup and Vanity set. Special thanks to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at uta, Beck Media and Marketing and the Nord Group. For more podcasts like up and Vanish Weekly, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app or visit us at@Tenderfoot TV. Thanks for listening.