The Boyfriend | Blood is Thicker: The Hargan Family Killings

Summary

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress, and the Bodyguard

Episode: The Boyfriend | Blood is Thicker: The Hargan Family Killings
Host/Author: CBS News
Release Date: May 15, 2024

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Introduction

In the gripping episode titled "The Boyfriend | Blood is Thicker: The Hargan Family Killings" from the Trained to Kill podcast series by CBS News, host Peter Van Sant delves deep into a perplexing and dark case that questions the boundaries between love, obsession, and violence. This episode unravels the tragic story of Carlos Gutierrez, Helen Hargan, and the mysterious circumstances surrounding the deaths of Helen’s mother, Pamela Hargan, and Helen herself.

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Carlos Gutierrez’s Desperate Plea for Help

The episode opens with Carlos Gutierrez, a devoted boyfriend in his early 30s, making frantic 911 calls from Dallas, Texas, attempting to save his 23-year-old girlfriend, Helen Hargan, who is in Northern Virginia. On [01:16], Carlos pleads with emergency operators:

Carlos Gutierrez (00:01:16): "Do then is contact your local jurisdiction."

Despite his urgency, Carlos faces dismissive responses from the Fairfax County 911 operators, leading to heightened frustration and fear for Helen's safety.

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Relationship Dynamics and Suspicious Signs

Carlos and Helen met a year prior in Dallas while working together at a local restaurant. Their relationship was intense and deeply committed, with plans to build a future together in Virginia. On [06:07], Helen expressed her aspirations:

Helen Hargan (06:07): "My goal was to work for a defense contractor, just as my mom Pamela had once done."

Despite their strong bond, Carlos later discovers unsettling signs of tension within Helen’s family, particularly concerning Helen’s mother, Pamela. Megan Hargan, Helen’s older sister, reveals the family's disapproval of Carlos, highlighting familial strains that may have contributed to the unfolding tragedy.

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The Tragic Morning and Initial Evidence

On the morning of the shootings, Helen contacts Carlos, sounding frightened and distressed. She communicates that her sister Megan has shot their mother, Pamela, and expresses fear for her own safety and that of her niece, Molly. [19:39] Carlos describes Helen’s state:

Carlos Gutierrez (19:39): "She was trembling, she was sobbing. She was very frantic."

Despite Carlos’s attempts to urge Helen to call the police, Helena becomes unresponsive, prompting Carlos to escalate the situation by calling 911. The lack of concrete information, such as Pamela’s exact address, further complicates Carlos’s efforts to seek immediate assistance.

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Police Investigation and Unsettling Discoveries

Detectives Brian Byerson and Julia Elliott undertake a thorough investigation, uncovering numerous inconsistencies that challenge the initial assumption of a murder-suicide. Key findings include:

1. Blood Patterns and Weapon Placement:
   At [12:16], Detective Byerson notes:

   Detective Brian Byerson (12:16): "We know what that means. We know that means that that phone was placed there sometime after she died."

   The rifle found at the scene was unusually clean, with no blood traces, and was perfectly placed within Helen’s legs, contrary to what would be expected if it were used in a suicide.

2. Suspected Scene Manipulation:
   Detective Elliott points out the disarray in the bathroom juxtaposed with the orderly placement of the rifle, raising doubts about the suicide theory. Additionally, punctured couch cushions and the presence of a long knife suggest potential signs of a struggle or alternate weapon use.

3. Missing Evidence:
   Critical financial documents discovered behind photo albums by Detective Elliott were absent when retrieved later, indicating possible tampering or deliberate removal by the perpetrator.

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Megan Hargan’s Involvement and Family Tensions

Megan Hargan emerges as a pivotal figure in the investigation. Her interactions with Carlos and her dismissive attitude towards his claims raise suspicions. On [08:53], Megan explains:

Megan Hargan (08:53): "This morning, my mom let Helen know that she was canceling the contract on the house she's building because she truly believed that Helen was going to try to move Carlos into the house."

Her refusal to engage with Carlos and the conflicting messages between text communications deepen the mystery surrounding Pamela and Helen’s deaths.

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Carlos’s Unwavering Pursuit of the Truth

Determined to uncover the truth, Carlos discovers text messages that contradict Helen’s last words, indicating possible manipulation by Megan. On [23:32], Carlos reveals:

Carlos Gutierrez (23:32): "When you reported a murder earlier, do you think something happened there? Well, I know for a fact that her sister shot her mom."

These messages expose a possible cover-up, suggesting that Megan may have had a more significant role in the murders than initially perceived.

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Revelations and Police Realizations

As Detectives Byerson and Elliott piece together the evidence, it becomes increasingly clear that the initial narrative of a controlled murder-suicide does not hold. [28:27] Detective Byerson states:

Detective Brian Byerson (28:27): "There is no boogeyman here. It is exactly who we think it is."

This realization points towards Megan Hargan as the likely perpetrator, orchestrating the murders and manipulating the crime scene to obfuscate her involvement.

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Conclusion and Lingering Questions

The episode concludes by highlighting the unsettling nature of the case and the potential for Megan to have murdered both her mother and Helen. The meticulous manipulation of evidence and dismissive family dynamics paint a harrowing picture of familial betrayal and the depths of human obsession.

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Notable Quotes and Timestamps

• Carlos Gutierrez (01:16): "Do then is contact your local jurisdiction."
• Helen Hargan (06:07): "My goal was to work for a defense contractor, just as my mom Pamela had once done."
• Carlos Gutierrez (19:39): "She was trembling, she was sobbing. She was very frantic."
• Detective Brian Byerson (12:16): "We know what that means. We know that means that that phone was placed there sometime after she died."
• Detective Brian Byerson (28:27): "There is no boogeyman here. It is exactly who we think it is."

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Final Thoughts

"The Boyfriend | Blood is Thicker: The Hargan Family Killings" episode masterfully weaves together personal narratives, investigative insights, and compelling evidence to present a case that transcends a mere murder mystery. It challenges listeners to ponder the complexities of trust, the potential darkness within familial relationships, and the relentless pursuit of truth in the face of overwhelming odds.

For those intrigued by true crime stories that delve into the psychological and emotional intricacies of real-life tragedies, this episode offers a profound and unsettling exploration that keeps you engaged until the very end.

Transcript

[Peter Van Sant]

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[Jill]

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[Jill]

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[Peter Van Sant]

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[Jill]

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[Peter Van Sant]

Contains graphic audio and references to family violence. Please listen with care.

[Carlos Gutierrez]

Fairfax county police on fire. How may I assist you? Yes, I have an emergency.

[Peter Van Sant]

More than 1,000 miles from where he believes a crime is unfolding, Carlos Gutierrez is desperately trying to save his girlfriend's life. This was back in the summer of 2017.

[Carlos Gutierrez]

Hello? Are you there? Yes, I'm here.

[Peter Van Sant]

These calls are from emergency services in Northern Virginia. That's where the love of his life, Helen Hargan, lives.

[Carlos Gutierrez]

I'm thinking, my girlfriend's life is in danger.

[Peter Van Sant]

His girlfriend's life is in danger. But Carlos feels like the 911 operator isn't taking him seriously. Why aren't they responding with concern? Okay, sir, what I need you to.

[Carlos Gutierrez]

Do then is contact your local jurisdiction.

[Peter Van Sant]

File a report with them, and tell them that Fairfax county requires a teletype in order to do a welfare check.

[Carlos Gutierrez]

Okay. I think this is like life or death. Like, I think somebody might be dead.

[Peter Van Sant]

Carlos is trying to make sure the operator understands the seriousness of the situation. But instead of quickly dispatching police, the 911 operator tells him to call someone else. Contact your local jurisdiction, file the report.

[Carlos Gutierrez]

Have them send us a teletype, and.

[Peter Van Sant]

Then we will go and check on her.

[Carlos Gutierrez]

Okay, how do I get a hold of my jurisdiction? How to do that?

[Peter Van Sant]

Well, sir, if you don't have their non emergency number, if you dial 911, you'll get your. Your emergency center.

[Carlos Gutierrez]

Okay, thank you.

[Peter Van Sant]

Bye Bye. I would play this. 911 call for Detective Brian Byerson of the Fairfax County Police. He told me this first operator no longer works at the call center.

[Detective Brian Byerson]

Yeah, this one is incontrovertibly horrible. We do not require a teletype number to report a possible homicide. Yeah, that's completely ridiculous.

[Peter Van Sant]

Carlos would call, speak to an operator, and then be told he needed to call someone else again and again. Listen closely because this 911 tape is not exactly easy to understand.

[Carlos Gutierrez]

Is your girlfriend at home right now? Well, that's the thing. She won't answer her phone.

[Peter Van Sant]

According to Carlos, Alex. Hours earlier, Helen had called him to say her mom might be dead. And then she stopped answering her phone. She hadn't called 91 1. Carlos didn't hear from her. And now he was worried. Helen was in danger. In a race against time. Carlos keeps calling the police.

[Carlos Gutierrez]

We're going to need you to call your local police department and. Oh, my God. They're still not there. I'm sorry. You're still not there? How are we supposed to get there? Well, you didn't give us an address. Y'all can't look at the name Pam Hargan and McClain. We looked at the name Pam Hargan and McLean. We don't list individuals by name. We don't record information that way. Okay, I'm sorry. I'm just having a hard time.

[Peter Van Sant]

Finally, more than an hour after his first 911 call, police tell Carlos that they're sending officers to Helen's home. Detective Brian Byerson didn't find out about Carlos's calls to 911 until after he walked through the Hargan house and saw the two bodies for himself. Ultimately, what Carlos had to say would blow a hole in the theory that this was a murder suicide. And that meant a killer could still be on the loose. If true, you have a brutal, vicious killer in this community who could kill again.

[Detective Brian Byerson]

That is correct.

[Peter Van Sant]

I'm Peter van Sant from 48 Hours. This is Blood Is Thicker. The Hargan Family Killings Episode two. The boyfriend, Carlos Gutierrez, is on the phone with a 911 supervisor out of Fairfax County, Virginia.

[Carlos Gutierrez]

Okay, Mr. Gutierrez? Yes. Yes, ma'am. Okay.

[Peter Van Sant]

So she asks him more about his relationship with Helen Hargan.

[Carlos Gutierrez]

How long have you known your girlfriend? For about a year.

[Peter Van Sant]

Carlos and Helen had been dating for a year. They first met in Dallas.

[Jill]

They were working at a local Restaurant together and there were sparks. They hit it off.

[Peter Van Sant]

This is Michelle Sigona. She's a producer for 48 hours and has spent years following the case.

[Jill]

There are cases we will spend months, years on and then they will air. This is one of those that we spent an incredible amount of time prior to it airing.

[Peter Van Sant]

Carlos was in his early 30s when he met Helen. She was 23.

[Jill]

He said that, you know, although maybe he wasn't technically formally living with her per se in Texas, he was at her house 24 7. So they were living together essentially.

[Peter Van Sant]

Helen was attending Southern Methodist University and said on her resume that her goal was to work for a defense contractor, just as her mom Pamela had once done. According to Carlos, they fell in love and were inseparable.

[Jill]

It seemed like Carlos was planning to include Helen in his long term future.

[Peter Van Sant]

The couple were planning to leave Dallas and build a new life together in Northern Virginia.

[Jill]

He was so dedicated to Helen that Carlos was ready to leave his life in Texas and move to Virginia.

[Peter Van Sant]

As Carlos calls 911 the day of the tragedy, he tells the story of the life they had planned.

[Carlos Gutierrez]

We got a house that's getting built.

[Peter Van Sant]

He even mentions the house in Aldi, Virginia that Helen's mother was buying. He said they were serious, committed.

[Jill]

According to Carlos, he had big plans for their future. He was planning to propose to her.

[Peter Van Sant]

At some point after Helen made the move back east. The couple video, chatted, texted and called every day. He said the night before the shootings, they missed each other so much that they spent nearly four hours talking on the phone.

[Jill]

That's a long time to talk to anyone.

[Peter Van Sant]

Ten days before Pamela and Helen's deaths, Carlos went to see Helen in Virginia.

[Jill]

So according to court testimony, Carlos said he came to the area, he did not stay at Pam's house, that he and Helen stayed at a hotel nearby.

[Peter Van Sant]

Carlos said he had no idea that Helen's family had any animosity toward him until after the shootings. But there were signs none of Helen's family came out to meet him. When he and Helen stopped by the house for blankets for a fourth of.

[Jill]

July outing, the blankets were put outside, but Carlos said he didn't think anything about it.

[Peter Van Sant]

Helen's oldest sister, Megan, would bring this up to police.

[Megan Hargan]

They were in the driveway when she came to get blankets for fourth of July. And she said, megan, wait there in the driveway.

[Peter Van Sant]

She's saying her mom told her not to go out and meet him. Pamela had bought Helen a house but was now having second thoughts because Carlos might move in with her daughter. Here's Megan in a police recording taken hours after the shooting.

[Megan Hargan]

This morning, my mom let Helen know that she was canceling the contract on the house she's building her her because she truly believed that Helen was going to try to move Carlos into the house.

[Peter Van Sant]

And my mom didn't want him being there after that. She said Helen was furious her mother had changed her mind, but also said her kid's sister was even mad at her. Why? Megan said she and her husband closed on a house of their own in West Virginia. So while Helen's dream was taken away, Megan. Megan was still getting hers.

[Megan Hargan]

She got mad at me and thought the house was my fault. And you know, mom was like, it has nothing to do with her. You know why, Helen, I can't trust you. And I'm not letting that Carlos move into that house.

[Peter Van Sant]

Megan said that she was leaving to drive to West Virginia that morning. Before she left, she said the door to her mom's home office was closed.

[Megan Hargan]

When I was leaving. Like I said, I saw her office door closed and that usually means she's on the phone, so I just left it.

[Peter Van Sant]

Besides, she remembered how Helen was out on the front porch, very upset.

[Megan Hargan]

I think it was this afternoon when I was leaving the house and she was crying and I went out to the porch and I said, who are you on the phone with? And she was like, Carlos. And I was like, oh, are you okay?

[Jill]

And she's like.

[Megan Hargan]

And I said, and I said, are you. Is everything okay? She was crying.

[Peter Van Sant]

Police had been given two versions of that deadly morning. One where Helen was scared for her life and another where she was the likely killer. But which one did the evidence support? At Designer Shoe Warehouse we believe that.

[Detective Brian Byerson]

Shoes are an important part of, well.

[Megan Hargan]

Everything from first steps to first dates dates. From all nighters to all time personal bests.

[Peter Van Sant]

From building pillow forts to building a.

[Megan Hargan]

Mud for all the big and small moments that make up your whole world. DSW is there and we've got just the shoes. Find a shoe for every you from brands you love at brag worthy prices at your DSW store or dsw.com instacart.

[Detective Brian Byerson]

Is on a mission to have you not leave the couch this basketball season. Because between the pre game rituals and the post game interviews, it can be difficult to find time for everything else. So let Instacart take care of your game day snacks or weekly restocks and get delivery in as fast as 30 minutes because we hear it's bad luck to be hungry on game day. So download the Instacart app today and enjoy zero dollar delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees apply for three orders in 14 days. Excludes restaurants. This particular case, there were things about the scene itself that were concerning to us on day one.

[Peter Van Sant]

Detectives Brian Byerson and Julia Elliott, a forensics expert, looked over the two rooms where Helen and Pamela were shot. Helen was found upstairs in her bathroom, Pamela in the mudroom, found on the floor under a quilt. Oddly, her phone was sitting on top of the quilt in a pool of blood.

[Detective Brian Byerson]

We know what that means. We know that it means that that phone was placed there sometime after she died.

[Peter Van Sant]

But this wasn't the only strange clue. Helen's cell phone was set on the bathroom counter near the sink, and yet didn't have a spot of blood on it.

[Detective Julia Elliott]

And I want to find out who put that cell phone there in that particular place.

[Peter Van Sant]

So you want to check for fingerprints and DNA?

[Detective Julia Elliott]

Yes.

[Peter Van Sant]

What do you find on this phone?

[Detective Julia Elliott]

Nothing.

[Peter Van Sant]

Nothing. Nothing on Helen's phone. She'd find the mother's phone was also clean.

[Detective Julia Elliott]

On the front, we will typically see fingerprints, or at least smudges of fingerprints. On this one, we were able to see smears as if someone had wiped it from side to side.

[Peter Van Sant]

The bathroom was in disarray, with toiletries scattered on the floor. But Detective Elliott noticed that the rifle was neatly placed. Why hadn't it tumbled away when she shot herself?

[Detective Julia Elliott]

The rifle was still laying perfectly within her legs. That, to me, tells me that if she's moving enough to move things off of the back of the toilet, I would expect that gun to have fallen down to the floor. I also have seen suicides done with long guns where they are not able to retain control of the gun.

[Peter Van Sant]

But for detectives, the rifle's perfect placement wouldn't be the only red flag.

[Detective Brian Byerson]

You have a scene that's relatively small.

[Peter Van Sant]

Detective Byerson told me that if Helen had killed herself in such a small bathroom, there'd likely be blood on the rifle.

[Detective Brian Byerson]

There is blood everywhere. It's all over the place. However, there doesn't seem to be any blood on the rifle itself, which is sitting in the middle of all of it, even though there's blood underneath. So that is a huge problem.

[Peter Van Sant]

To the detective, this just didn't make sense.

[Detective Brian Byerson]

We had a generally clean weapon, and then underneath the weapon, there was blood where there shouldn't have been if the weapon was there.

[Peter Van Sant]

So that suggests perhaps someone else shot Helen.

[Detective Brian Byerson]

It suggests that the weapon wasn't there until later on, which doesn't sound like.

[Peter Van Sant]

A murder suicide to Me then, right?

[Detective Brian Byerson]

It does not.

[Peter Van Sant]

And in the basement, another strange sight. Detective Elliott found couch cushions that looked like they'd been slashed with a knife.

[Detective Julia Elliott]

I wasn't sure if someone was taking out some anger or what they were doing.

[Peter Van Sant]

Was it a tear kind of cut, or was it a puncture kind of cut?

[Detective Julia Elliott]

It was a stabbing puncture type cut.

[Peter Van Sant]

Like someone had, what, practiced on it? Yes. And is it true that there was a long knife found in the house?

[Detective Julia Elliott]

Yes.

[Peter Van Sant]

The knife was in plain sight. She took a photo of it still down there in the basement.

[Detective Julia Elliott]

This is the knife, and it's sitting on a bookshelf that was just to the left of the couch cushions in the same room.

[Peter Van Sant]

Detective Elliott believed the killer may have considered using the knife as a murder weapon instead of the rifle. And then when Detective Elliott turned to look at Pamela Hargan's bookshelves, she spotted something else.

[Detective Julia Elliott]

So that center set of books that are kind of gray with the red band, those are photo albums. And I got a little nosy, and I wanted to see what my victims may have looked like in life or as they grew up. So I pulled out one of the center photo albums to look at it and open it up. And behind it was a piece of evidence that ended up being quite important.

[Peter Van Sant]

What was found?

[Detective Julia Elliott]

It was a photocopy of Pamela's spreadsheet that she used for all her accounts, account numbers and passcodes. It was also a photocopy of Pamela's bank statement.

[Peter Van Sant]

This was still the night of the shootings. And while Detective Elliott wanted to dig in and learn more about this bank.

[Detective Julia Elliott]

Statement, financial documents were not on our search warrant. And so therefore, I could not take it. We photographed it as we found it that night. And eventually, a couple days later, came back with a search warrant to recover those papers. And they were not there.

[Peter Van Sant]

They were not there.

[Detective Julia Elliott]

They were not.

[Peter Van Sant]

You found yourself a pretty interesting piece of evidence, right?

[Detective Julia Elliott]

Yes. At the time, we weren't exactly sure what we were dealing with.

[Peter Van Sant]

Detectives were becoming increasingly convinced that both the Hargan women had been murdered. But by who? And what was the motive? It would turn out that Helen's boyfriend, Carlos, had shared a theory with Ashley. Here's Detective John Vickery asking the father, Steve Hargan, about it.

[Detective Brian Byerson]

Tell me again what Carlos says to you.

[Peter Van Sant]

To her?

[Detective Brian Byerson]

I'll tell you exactly what Ashley tells me. That Carlos said to her that Megan, she shot your mother.

[Jill]

The missing child is Lucia Blix, 9 years old.

[Megan Hargan]

Please let her come back home safely tonight. The kidnappers plumbed it, meticulously if money is what it takes to get her back, we're gonna pay it. The secrets they hide. You can't talk about this. You can't write about it.

[Jill]

Are the clues.

[Carlos Gutierrez]

The mother's hiding something.

[Megan Hargan]

I know it. To find her, tell me where she is.

[Jill]

The stolen girl tonight at 10 on Freeform and stream on Hulu.

[Detective Brian Byerson]

Hey, I'm Tank Sinatra here with my.

[Peter Van Sant]

Co host Investigators later and we would like to tell you a little bit.

[Detective Brian Byerson]

About our podcast Psychopedia.

[Jill]

It's true crime infused with comedy, making it a crimedy.

[Peter Van Sant]

And that is our word.

[Detective Brian Byerson]

Thank you.

[Peter Van Sant]

We made it up.

[Detective Brian Byerson]

I do extensive investigative research and go deep into the darkest corners of the.

[Peter Van Sant]

Human psyche and I'm just here to lighten things up a little bit with.

[Jill]

Humor, baby, you know, never at the.

[Detective Brian Byerson]

Expense of the victims though, obviously.

[Peter Van Sant]

Come join our family of little psychos.

[Megan Hargan]

Over on Psychopedia, available on the Odyssey.

[Peter Van Sant]

App or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Earlier that July morning, Carlos had woken up to some messages from his girlfriend Helen. One text read, I wanted to see if by chance you were awake. Call me when you do wake up. Love you. To Carlos, nothing out of the ordinary.

[Jill]

Everything appeared to be okay.

[Peter Van Sant]

Our producer Michelle Sigona read through Carlos's court testimony about that morning. He was at home in Dallas and had slept in. The two played phone tag until after 11 eastern time. When Carlos finally caught her, Helen was beside herself.

[Jill]

Later in the morning, Carlos says specifically that Helen sounded frightened and scared. He used words like, Helen was trembling, she was sobbing. She was very frantic.

[Peter Van Sant]

She immediately told him why and Carlos would tell 911, Fairfax County Police and.

[Carlos Gutierrez]

Fire, how may I assist you? My girlfriend told me that her sister killed her mom and now my girlfriend won't answer her phone.

[Peter Van Sant]

Carlos explained to the operator that Helen told him her sister Megan came upstairs to her room and said that she killed her mother, Pamela.

[Jill]

So if you let that sink in for a minute, she told me that her sister had killed her mother. I can't imagine being in Dallas, Texas while talking to my girlfriend on the phone who was inside this home where something horrific has happened and not really knowing what to do.

[Peter Van Sant]

Carlos even said Helen told him she could hear her mother gasping for life. Things sounded dire.

[Jill]

He was trying to get to the heart of what was happening in all of this.

[Peter Van Sant]

Carlos told Helen to leave immediately.

[Jill]

He was trying to tell her to get out of the house, to call police, to do something. But Helen had hesitation. According to Carlos, Helen was very nervous and possibly scared for her niece, who apparently was also in the home.

[Peter Van Sant]

Helen wanted to protect her niece, Megan's daughter Molly, and that she was worried what her sister might do if the police showed up.

[Jill]

She didn't want her niece to see her mother getting arrested.

[Peter Van Sant]

Soon after, Helen stopped responding, and he called for help. But Carlos couldn't recall Pamela Hargan's address.

[Carlos Gutierrez]

Okay, where do you live?

[Detective Brian Byerson]

I live in Dallas.

[Carlos Gutierrez]

She lives in McLean. Okay, and what's her address? I don't know. She's at her mom's house. Her mom's name is Pam Hargan.

[Peter Van Sant]

Carlos thought his future wife's life was at risk. But this lack of details only left emergency services with more questions. They asked Carlos to call back when he had more information and kept having him speak to different operators, rehashing what Helen had told him. Finally, the public safety supervisor in Fairfax County, Virginia, called Carlos herself. Her name is Lisa Wagner Smith. She wanted to know how this alleged murder had unfolded.

[Carlos Gutierrez]

Okay. Was this just out of the blue? Did she say how she did it or why she did it? She said she shot her. She said she woke up and her sister told her she shot her mom. So your girlfriend is sitting in a house with a dead woman.

[Peter Van Sant]

The 911 supervisor sounded skeptical. Why would Helen stay put if her sister had killed their mom? Carlos would call back with the right information and reach a 911 operator.

[Carlos Gutierrez]

I. I reported a murder earlier, and I didn't have the address. Now I have the address.

[Peter Van Sant]

So what do you mean?

[Carlos Gutierrez]

When you reported a murder earlier, do you think something happened there? Well, I know for a fact that her sister shot her mom. When? This morning. That's what I'm trying to tell you guys. Yeah. This morning she called me and told me that her sister shot her mom and she didn't know what to do. And I told her to call the cops, to get the kid and call the cops.

[Peter Van Sant]

The operator passed Carlos back to Lisa, the supervisor with the address and some information confirmed. After multiple calls from Carlos, 911 was finally able to send help.

[Carlos Gutierrez]

We are sending an officer out there. Is there anything else you can think of that we need to know? No. I mean, I'm just freaking out. I'm thinking something bad happened to my girlfriend.

[Peter Van Sant]

In case you didn't catch that, Carlos said he was freaking out and worried something had happened to Helen. Before they end the call, though, Carlos did think of something else officers needed to know.

[Carlos Gutierrez]

Y'all need it? Like, I have, like, some incriminating texts that her sister sent me.

[Peter Van Sant]

Carlos thought Megan was texting him, not his Girlfriend.

[Carlos Gutierrez]

What does that say? Because after the fact that Helen told me that her sister killed her mom, right? Mm. She. I called her and she wouldn't answer. And so she text me back. Helen did. And it was like, hey, sorry, I'm just arguing with my mom. She pisses me off. Hate her. And I. This is after the fact that Helen told me that her sister killed her mom. So I know that her sister got her phone and was sending these messages.

[Peter Van Sant]

Here's what one of those texts said. Everything is fine. I'm not mad at Megan. I'm mad that my mom paid for her house. She and her husband should buy it themselves. Here is our producer, Michelle Sigona.

[Jill]

Again, based on these text messages he was receiving, they were a huge red flag for Carlos.

[Peter Van Sant]

He just wanted Helen to call him, but all he got were texts, and that started to feel suspicious. I'm not even mad at her, really. The text continued, just effing hate my mom. Carlos didn't think that sounded like the woman he loved. He kept calling Helen's cell.

[Jill]

Finally, he was able to reach someone, but it was not Helen. It was Megan on the other side of the phone.

[Peter Van Sant]

Here's Carlos again.

[Carlos Gutierrez]

Yes, and now I called my girlfriend and her sister answers the phone and refuses to let me talk to my girlfriend.

[Peter Van Sant]

But Carlos persisted and he kept asking.

[Jill]

I need to speak with Helen. I'm having a bad day. I need to speak with Helen. And he's just getting some conflicting information.

[Peter Van Sant]

Carlos doesn't back down. He said he stayed on the phone, pushing Megan to give the phone to Helen for nearly 10 minutes.

[Jill]

He believes at this point that she.

[Peter Van Sant]

Is not okay on that long call. Carlos said Megan told him that that her mother didn't approve of him and that she wasn't going to let them move into the new house in Aldi.

[Jill]

Carlos claims that, you know, Pam had never said that to him or to Helen.

[Peter Van Sant]

The call ended without him ever speaking to his girlfriend.

[Jill]

So none of this is making sense to him. This is why he decides to make a brave move and call 911.

[Peter Van Sant]

Carlos realized that he needed to be the one to call for help and would begin his agonizing journey to sound the alarm with emergency services.

[Jill]

My gosh, can you imagine? I mean, not knowing what's happening inside of that house and trying to call 911 and being told, you have to go through all these steps.

[Peter Van Sant]

Megan told police she left the house around 1:30 that afternoon, headed for West Virginia, and then turned around to go to her dad's after she heard about the sh. Shooting. Ashley was racing to her dad's, too. Carlos had called her while she was in the car, but Ashley had trouble believing his story. Here is Detective Vickery asking Ashley about the call after she arrived at her dad's.

[Detective Brian Byerson]

We heard you received a call from Carlos.

[Megan Hargan]

Yes, And I don't even know. This kid was a stranger off the street. He was saying that my. This sister shot my.

[Peter Van Sant]

By this sister, Ashley meant Megan, who was sitting right there with them.

[Megan Hargan]

She would never do that. Ever. Never. Okay. Obviously, I've known her my entire life, and we've been through hell and bad together. I know. My sister.

[Peter Van Sant]

Ashley told the detective she's been calling her mom. And sister Megan chimed in to say she has two.

[Megan Hargan]

I left voicemails for mom. I was trying to talk.

[Peter Van Sant]

Carlos was saying Megan killed her mother. But in that moment, the sisters were dismissive of him.

[Megan Hargan]

I don't know this guy from Adam. That's what I. That's what I've been saying.

[Peter Van Sant]

Ashley made it clear she didn't believe that Megan is a murderer.

[Detective Brian Byerson]

Do you recall his exact words?

[Megan Hargan]

Megan shot your mom. And I was like. I'm sorry, what? We were together all morning, Meg. I know. Like, it just. Nothing's adding up.

[Peter Van Sant]

Nothing was adding up. Ashley and her dad didn't seem scared of Megan. Police didn't arrest her. And that day, law enforcement told the public that the killer was dead. Patrol officers thought Helen had done it. But given how the crime scene didn't neatly fit a murder suicide and Carlos's 911 calls, Detective Byerson asked himself the question, was Megan the killer? Did she murder both her mom and Helen that morning?

[Detective Brian Byerson]

We have manipulated crime scene in multiple places. The wiped phone, the possibly wiped rifle, the placing of the rifle. We have the fact that mom was covered and that her phone was laying on top of the quilt.

[Peter Van Sant]

A couple days later, they would hear about a suspicious call.

[Detective Brian Byerson]

It becomes very obvious to us that there is no other. There is no boogeyman here. It is exactly who we think it is.

[Peter Van Sant]

From 48 hours. This is Blood is Thicker, the Hargan family killings. Judy Tygard is the executive producer of 48 Hours. Original reporting by 48 Hours producers Josh Yeager, Sarah Ely Hulse, Michelle Sigona and Lauren White. Jamie Benson is the senior producer producer for Paramount Audio, and Mara Walls is the senior story editor. Recording assistance from Alan Pang and Marlon Polycarp. Special thanks to Paramount Podcast vice president Megan Marcus and 48 Hours senior producer Peter Schweitzer. Blood is Thicker is produced by Sony Music Entertainment. It was written and produced by by Alex Schuman. Our executive producers are Kathryn St. Louis and Jonathan Hirsch. Our associate producer is Zoe Culkin. Theme and original music composed by Honsdale Sheeh. He also sound, designed and mixed the episodes. We also use music by Blue Dot Sessions. Kathryn Newhan is our fact checker. Our production managers are Tamika Balance Kolasny and Samantha Allison. I'm Peter Van Sant. If you're enjoying the show, be sure to rate and review. It helps more people find it and hear our reporting. For early and ad free access to Blood is thicker. Subscribe to 48 Hours plus on Apple Podcasts or Wondry plus on the Wondri app. Start your free trial today. Thanks for listening.