← TranscendingX - Raw Conversations and Practical Tips to Break Through Stuttering, Communication Fears, and Become Who You Truly Are
TranscendingX - Raw Conversations and Practical Tips to Break Through Stuttering, Communication Fears, and Become Who You Truly Are
#74 Advocating for People who Stutter with Maya Chupkov
00:54:23
Maya is a writer and storyteller whose work is rooted in social justice and narrative shift. As a woman who stutters, she is a stuttering advocate working to shift societal norms around stuttering and the disability community. Maya lives in San...
Loading summary
Transcript48 lines
- [00:03]
Uri Schneider
Welcome to the Transcending Stuttering Podcast. My name is Uri Schneider. From Schneider's speech. Join me as I explore and learn from the true stories of real life heroes, people from the world of stuttering and beyond. We explore the challenges and the triumphs and most of all, how to transcend stuttering and discover our best self.
- [00:30]
Yeah. We are live here. We are. It's national stuttering awareness week 2022. My name is Uri Schneider and it is my honor and pleasure to host you. We haven't done one of these on Facebook Live in a while. We've been recording in the background, but I felt there's no better time and no better person to bring us back to Facebook Live and share this live than my special guest this week. So this is Transcending stuttering podcast, episode 74. Super excited to have the one and only Maya Chupkov all the way out from the West Coast, Pacific time. So, all my west coast friends, I'm coming at you live. East Coast. Maya's coming out from the West Coast. We got the whole country covered and we are going to cover some really interesting topics today. I'll give you a little bio just in case you've been living under a rock and you don't know who Maya is. She is a force of nature, bringing impact and change on an individual level and on a social level and just having conversations that are worth having. And so it's great and I'm looking forward and I invite Maya to flip the script on me and feel free to change, change it around and interview me if she wants. But Maya is a writer, a storyteller, public relations expert. Her work is rooted in social justice and narrative shift. Love that. As a woman who stutters, she is a stuttering advocate working to shift societal norms around stuttering and the disability community. She is the host, creator and producer of Proud Stutter. When you finish listening, check it out. It's on every podcast platform and all over social Follow, subscribe, drop a. Like, drop a review. It helps her podcast and do the same for this podcast and any others that you want to support. It really does make a difference and it also helps creators like Maya and myself, you know, recognize. Wow, someone's listening. So that's always nice. A podcast about for Proud Stutter is a podcast about shifting the narrative around stuttering. She lives in San Francisco with her fiance and her dog, Little Stu, who I heard might make an appearance trying to get some attention early morning on the Pacific West Coast. Maya, welcome to Transcending Stuttering thank you.
- [03:04]
Maya Chupkov
So much for having me, especially during the best week of the year, National Stuttering Awareness Week. It is an honor to be here with you, and I'm excited to dive in on the conversation.
- [03:17]
Uri Schneider
Awesome. So I love to always ask at the beginning, like, what's one thing you like people to know about you that doesn't show up in your bio or might not be as self evident?
- [03:26]
Maya Chupkov
Yeah. So I actually got asked this question when I first started my job, and my answer was very obvious. Like, I'm a podcaster, but in this way, I have to kind of find another answer because that's what this whole conversation's about. But I guess I can talk about what I do for money and for my day job. I guess, like, I can add in some details about it that you wouldn't quite find on my resume, but my job really involves me talking all day and facilitating meetings, which, as a person who stutters, to be able to, like, try to control a room on a constant basis and be leading and convening people with passionate personalities, it's definitely a struggle as someone that stutters. And even as much as I try to spread awareness about it in my own community at work, like, my colleagues at work know, I stutter and I'm very vocal about it, but with partners outside of the organization that I work with on a daily basis, sometimes it just doesn't get through because stuttering is so complex and nuanced. And so even though you're. Even. Even though I try to, like, spread as much awareness about it as appropriate in those settings, I feel like I still can get misunderstood just a little bit. And I feel like so many of the norms around speech and stuttering is so ingrained in us as humans that sometimes it just takes time to really get people to understand stuttering. And that it's not because I'm nervous, and it's not because I don't know how to convene a meeting, but it's simply because it just takes a little longer for me to say what I want to say. And when you're in a setting where you have to control the room, it's just. Yeah, it's very. It's very. It's hard. And I think a lot of it is internal, too, because I do judge myself a lot in those settings. And so I think it's like a balance of, like, the internal and then external.
- [05:58]
Uri Schneider
That's an incredible comment. And it segues into something I was thinking about as I was really getting jazzed thinking about our conversation. I was thinking about National Stuttering Awareness Week and all the incredible advocacy that's going on and conversations that need to be had about the way society thinks of people who stutter, think about stuttering, are scared to talk about it. Parents are concerned to use the word stuttering when they talk to their kids. And I certainly want to frame this conversation also just for all our listeners. Everything we're going to talk about is probably as pertinent for school age kids, teens and adults, and obviously should be scaled to people's developmental maturity and what they're up for. We shouldn't think of taking one thing and throwing it on everybody. But certainly I want to distinguish the population of parents of young children who stutter. Preschool children who stuttered is a different conversation. And yet it's also an important conversation to listen to because how parents relate to the stuttering child, how teachers relate to the stuttering child can be extremely impressionable and a wonderful opportunity to lay the groundwork of how that young person sees themselves, sees the activity of speech and communication as something that's joyful and natural or lays the foundation of it being something that's extremely loaded and cagey and tenuous and really, you know, ready for anything to come. And it just so it's a really big opportunity with young children who stutter. How we think about it. So, so exciting. So I think most people, you use the word, you know, the inside getting in your own head and then like, what the society think about stuttering. And while we'll talk most of today about society and culture, could you reflect on, like, I think most of the time people think about stuttering. They think about what can that person do to manage their speech, or what is that person feeling? Or the person who stutters is thinking, how can I handle this situation myself differently, as opposed to. And as compared to the recent conversation that we're focusing on about how society can create more space, can create a more safe space, a welcoming space, a supportive space, more understanding space. Can you relate to the two and maybe in your own life journey, like, how that's evolved and the interplay between the two, the inner experience, and then how society and people around you and your community influence the experience of stuttering?
- [08:32]
Maya Chupkov
Yeah, I've been having a lot of conversations with my colleagues that I work with about how we can create safer spaces for people who stutter at work and kind of model for, like, other organizations we work with on how even if it's just like one simple act, like how we can begin to just make people who Stutter. And even other people with disabilities or speech impediments just feel safer, because I think. I think that would go a long way in, like, people who stutter being less in their head and more just doing, you know, like, their work and not having to really worry about those internal judgments. And so one of the things that I really want to start implementing is similar to how in spaces, it's often we say our pronouns like she, her, and so that, like, I'm, she, her, and that has become mainstream, like, in almost every space I'm in. That's just, like, how everyone welcomes each other in this space. And so I think we can do something else around speech or disability. I haven't quite landed on the exact language, but something along the lines of, like, here are my accommodations that I'm seeking today. And so I would say, you know, I have a. I have a stutter. It sometimes takes a little while for me to talk. Like, and so people, like, have the opportunity, everyone, not just me who stutters, to have to be able to talk about, like, what they need space for in the room. And so I think that would go a long way to just. And I know that's, like, another thing to include, but it could be very powerful.
- [10:46]
Uri Schneider
Beautiful. If we were to visit Maya, you know, 7 years old, 10 years old, 17 years old, would you invite us in and, like, take us through any of those moments, Experiences? They could be the challenging moments, they could be the exciting, proud moments, and kind of, like, lead us up to the person that you are today to bring us to this present moment. Because so much of that probably forms your feelings and your passion and your purpose.
- [11:15]
Maya Chupkov
Yeah. It's interesting because when I think back to my childhood, I don't really hear or see a lot of stuttering. I don't know if that's just because I just, like, hid it away in, like, the deep corners of my memory or what. But. But I. My. But I have, like, talked to my mom about it, and she's told me, like, what happened in her view. And so I kind of have a sense. But it's so weird. Like, I try so hard to think back to how it felt to have a stutter at a young age. And it's just, like, I might need to go to, like, some. I don't know what it's called, but some therapy where they help you, like, unlock your. Your memories. And I think that would be an interesting experience. But. But what I do remember very clearly is that in middle school and high school, there were so many experiences I wanted to do, and I just didn't do them because I was afraid to stutter. So that's definitely held me back a lot. Although I did still join Associated Student Body and high school, but I chose roles where I didn't have to talk as much. And I actually ran for senior class treasurer. And I lost because I didn't talk at all about the campaign. Like, it was just, like. I don't know. There's just. Yeah, it was. It was interesting. But the activities that I did do had less talking involved. Like, I did volleyball. I did show a choir, which is like a mix of singing and dancing. And so those types of things I was able to express myself through, not through speaking. And so I tend to gravitate towards those things. And. Yeah, and this continued in college, too. I found a great group of friends, which I never had in high school. I never had. I never dated in high school. Like, the first time I ever dated someone was in college. And I started putting myself out there a little more in college. Although I did turn down a lot of interesting classes because of the speaking part. So I definitely felt myself holding back a lot. And then I don't know how this happened, but I ended up. After college, I ended up in a communications PR internship.
- [14:16]
Uri Schneider
I know that's too good. That's too good to just say, like, I don't know how that happened from the girl running for treasurer who says she lost because she didn't talk enough about the campaign. And maybe that's your story, but, yeah, you land a job in a PR firm. I mean.
- [14:34]
Maya Chupkov
Yeah, I mean, the interview went really well. I really connected with the people that I was being interviewed with. And from what I remember from that interview, I don't think I stuttered very much or I think what I'm. Like, if I got the job, I must have not stuttered. Like, that was my mentality. And so. So, yeah, I. The. The reason I got that job and I applied for in the first place is because I wanted. I know I wanted to live in San Francisco. And so basically what I did was I just applied to every job I could find in San Francisco, like, and any job, and every job. Like, it was just. I just did that. And then this was the job that ended up, like, feeling right to me. And so I. Yeah, and it actually ended up being a very great experience. And I think it was just because it was all learning. Like, I didn't really have a lot of pressure on me. It was an internship. Right. So I just Felt, I think, more relaxed, and I had a great boss and co and colleagues. But then once I started, like, climbing up the ladder and, like, through different PR jobs, that's when the pressure started getting more and more. And I had to talk more and more, and I had to. The worst part was I had to pitch journalists. Like, there's one job where literally my only job was to call journalists and tell them about a story that they should cover. And that was so stressful because I stuttered so much through that experience. And there was even moments where I had to pitch journalists in an open office format where everyone could hear me. And so that was stressful.
- [16:39]
Uri Schneider
And so is that like a phone call that you're making outgoing calls, but, like, you're in an open space so people can kind of hear your call? You don't have the benefit of closing the door.
- [16:48]
Maya Chupkov
Yeah, so that was rough. And we did have small rooms where we could do it alone, but not. They were not always available, so. But I still ended up landing stories for clients I don't like. I know how, because, like, I was good at my job. It's just the stuttering sometimes got in the way, of course. And there was a lot of ableism and in my work, because I would get critiques from my. My boss saying, you weren't prepared enough. If I to lead a client meeting, I would get feedback like, oh, like, you didn't sound like you were confident. You didn't like. So that was. As soon as I started hearing that, I just kind of like, I just like, I was like, I can't do this anymore. I don't want this. So I, like, ended up moving a lot in the PR world because I kept thinking that I couldn't do it. And so there was a lot of moving around. And then I went back to school, and I got my master's in public affairs. So I was like, another public thing, but I loved it so much. And I ended up staying in the communications and just going to the nonprofit world and finding jobs that more aligned with my values. And I was so happy there. And then I had a traumatic experience working for the state government. It was the public advocate's office at the California pucc, and I had a very traumatic experience there. It wasn't really about my stuttering. I think it was just like, being a woman and not being. And like, being in a high leadership position, but not getting treated like it. And so there was a lot of emotional abuse in that job. And I reported it to hr, and they didn't do anything about it. And then I found out two other women before me had the same experience as me. So there's still a lot of that happening, which is really sad. But what kind of kept me there for as long as I did was I met someone that I work with who stuttered too. He kind of was able to hide it a lot better than me, but just having someone that understood me in that way, I think was very helpful.
- [19:51]
Uri Schneider
Can I interrupt for one sec?
- [19:53]
Maya Chupkov
Yeah.
- [19:53]
Uri Schneider
So if he was so good at hiding and you at this time were not talking all the time, you didn't have a podcast at the time. You weren't my proud stutter podcast. So how did the two of you kind of reveal this shared trait?
- [20:10]
Maya Chupkov
Yeah, so I think it was like three months in, and he called me and he was like, like, I hear, like, I hear your stutter. And I just want to let you know that, like, I. He. He said he used to have a stutter, which could be the case. Like, who knows? It's complicated. But yeah, he. He used to stutter, and now he opened up that it comes up. His stutter comes up when he hears other people who stutter. And so that was like. But he, like, opened up how, like, he went through law school, the stutter and all this stuff. So we kind of had a bonding moment at that time.
- [20:59]
Uri Schneider
Which is cool. Interesting.
- [21:01]
Maya Chupkov
Yeah.
- [21:01]
Uri Schneider
You talked about going into public advocacy, and I like, you know, thinking about public, private, inside, outside. Like, self acceptance is, I think, of what goes on on our inner landscape. And then the advocacy, the self advocacy is kind of how we bring it out. I saw a beautiful quote from our friends at my speech, formerly Stuttering Scholarship Association. They're quoting yes Way Jose. I don't remember his last name. Do you remember his last name, Jose? He's like an amazing keynote speaker. He's speaking in Montreal. He's an amazing guy. Look up on Twitter and I think on Instagram, his handle is yes Way Jose. J O Z E. And he said, talk about stuttering or advocate for people to understand stuttering the way you would treat stuttering or something like that. Help people treat it the way you would want to treat it yourself.
- [22:00]
Maya Chupkov
Yeah.
- [22:01]
Uri Schneider
And I think that it just speaks to that inside, outside, it's kind of like love your neighbor as you love yourself and which is one of these, like, very basic first principle kind of things. But if you don't have enough self love, you, you don't regard yourself too highly, you're going to treat everyone else like that, you know, it's got to start inside with how you regard yourself. So that self acceptance and then the advocacy. So it's really interesting to me, Maya, that you don't have a lot of memories, and maybe they're locked in. But what is, like, the first memory where you're thinking, because you did say at some point, let's say at the treasury thing, there was a certain degree of holding back. There was a certain degree of not speaking about the campaign as much as you maybe wanted to. Can you think of times and junctures where that showed up in those earlier years before the work career?
- [22:55]
Maya Chupkov
Yeah, I mean, I know fourth grade was a very challenging year for me, and. But it was. I didn't.
- [23:04]
Uri Schneider
I don't.
- [23:05]
Maya Chupkov
I don't associate that with my stutter, though. I think the only connection I can really make about that year and my stuttering is that I think because I had a stutter, I was an easier target for bullies. And I've actually seen this storyline in other people, too, that, like, when you're. Like, when I was younger, I just, like, I had this urge to, like, want to participate in class. So I, like, did that. But then, like, socially, I was struggling a little bit, and I feel like I was just an easy target because I didn't. I wasn't the most social person or, like, if I was social, like, I didn't have the confidence young. When I was young, because of my speech. And so maybe, like, I think I was just an easy target. And so, yeah, I did experience a lot of bullying in the fourth grade. Almost every day I would come home crying. And, yeah, it was so painful, but I honestly, like. And maybe it's because that experience overshadowed so much of my other experiences. But, like, when I think about my childhood, I immediately think about fourth grade and the pain and. Yeah, so that I think that experience might have overshadowed some of the other experiences I had with my stutter.
- [24:47]
Uri Schneider
So, yeah, the reason I went down this road, and I think it's so powerful, is, like, going back and thinking about, like, what brings us to this moment. I know my. My friend Dan Greenwald, he spoke with me at the NSA last year, do workshops online. And he's like, tell me an age and I'll tell you my stuttering memory. So someone said third grade, he's like, yeah, I'm buying baseball cards. I'm at the. At the bodega, buying the cards. And the person behind me says, what, you forgot your name? You know, and someone's like, okay, like, 10 years old. He's like, yep, that was the time that I was reading in class and the teacher thought I was finished or I lost my spot and chose someone else. But really I just was on delay, you know, it was coming. I just need a little extra response time. So what made me go here, Maya, when you said I loved it, you said, imagine at the bottom of our screen we kind of just like tag it. Just simple, very, very even very neutral. You know, I have a stutter. I'd appreciate such and such accommodation. And I was thinking if you could roll that back to like middle school, junior high school girl who stutters. Whether it's you or someone else, what would be something that might have been impactful or opener, from a peer, from a teacher, from a parent, from an adult, whatever. Like, what would have been something that you feel had you had that and you'd love for the next young person who stutters to have that? You know, what would be that kind of accommodation or that kind of space creator that a person could have offered or created for you or someone else?
- [26:20]
Maya Chupkov
Yeah, I can see like at a young age, like first grade or second grade, to just have a conversation about stuttering with the class and just start very young. And really, because you're a sponge at that age and just trying to create those spaces at a very young age of like, all right, like today we're going to talk about speech and how there's some people that speak differently and that's okay. And then like say, you know, that there's stuttering, there's. And like have the teacher to just like educate that that way. And then opening up the space for others to like talk about their experiences with people that have different speeches and like that could like there could be a person there that's like, oh yeah, like my dad has a stutter. And you know, and then that just opens up the gate for young kids to just talk about that topic. Like any other topic that is brought up throughout that whole year, it's just another topic. It's not like this huge thing, but it's, it's just like, okay, here's. And have it be like a very light hearted thing. Because the more big deal you make it, the more it's like, you know, because stuttering really isn't a big deal. Like, yes, internally it is, but the less we can like make it a big deal and just like a different type of thing, like all these other differences we have, then I think that would go a long way.
- [28:13]
Uri Schneider
Awesome. I'm tempted. Yeah, I'm Going to share one quick story. You might have heard me share it at Stutter Fest. And then we'll go into the topic of like, the idea of advocacy within the stuttering community and then advocacy kind of beyond it. But the story, I'll try to tell it quickly, but people have seemed to enjoy it, so it's worth sharing. A guy reached out and he was a little hard to reach. And I pictured him similar to what you described, answering the phone. And there's people around and he doesn't really want to answer the phone. So you'd answer the phone, click. And on our end, on the other end, it was like, gosh, this guy's getting. He's being hard to reach. But of course, we know better than that. Or like at my office, when people call and don't leave a message, we return every call because I know who knows how long it took to make that call and who knows what emotions are sitting on the other side of that line. So while it may or may not be the typical thing that people might do in life, I think, at least for our practice, I think it's important that we know we return all missed calls. Sometimes it turns out kind of awkward in that sense, but usually people appreciate it. And so this guy was hard to reach. And finally I reached him and he's like, yeah, let me just step outside. And I think he went a stairwell or something and he's like, yeah. So I wanted to know about stuttering therapy. I've been stuttering for my whole life and actually I've done really darn well. Like, I'm at a really high level at this very, very, very prestigious law firm. But I just got a promotion and it's a much more visible position, front facing and also in the company. And the stakes are high. And suddenly what worked until now isn't working the same. And so I just wanted to know, like, is that normal? Can you help? Is there hope? And I said, you know, we talked and we talked about. He said, what are the expectations of speech therapy? And I said, well, I think, I think on the inside that you should feel more at ease. You should feel able to be more present in those situations. You should be able to, like, remember why you're speaking and what you're talking about. And whatever degree you're consumed with monitoring and editing your speech, speech and wondering what reaction you're going to get, that that should be tempered, that that should be in proportion that allows you a lot more space to really communicate and be your best. And then on an outside level, just be a great communicator because probably a lot of the ways you're managing, coping, suppressing, stutter, compromises the greatest communicator you can be. So on the outside you could objectively be a greater communication communicator and leverage things that you already have within you and maybe learn some new skills, some new communication skills that could just add. He says, I think it's the first one that I need the most of. You know, I just need to loosen up because everything will flow from there. It's a very high level guy at this firm. I said, oh, you might enjoy talking to this fellow who was of like a similar, had certain commonality in identity to this gentleman who was a similar physician researcher who got a promotion to nih, does some really cutting edge research and also suddenly found himself, the stakes got really high and his stutterings didn't hold him back before suddenly he wanted to do something. So I connected them and then afterwards I was thinking about it and I said, oh, what about this guy I worked with who finished law school? And he started working at that same firm and when he was working at that firm or going to that firm, he had a good dose of self acceptance, but he was terrified how others would receive him. And the prestige and the reputation of the firm was like, it's so cutthroat, it's so intense. And he was really, really nervous that as much as he was feeling good with himself in his own inner space, this culture and this reputation of this firm in his mind was not going to be accepting intolerant. So here I'm reaching out to him and I'm like, listen, do you want to be a mentor buddy for this guy who's a senior level partner at this firm? Because he's kind of starting his journey of exploring his stuttering and what he can do about it. And on the other hand, he's like a senior level partner track guy at the firm that you just got in the front door. Wouldn't it be cool like you could and like similar to the guy you met. It becomes a little bit of tribalism. Like I, I think you stutter. I think we have more in common than we realize and we have something to talk about that's very intimate, that's a connector that transcends just a thought. So that story to me is very touching. I get chills every time I think about it. But if you want to transition off that into. I was thinking about advocacy in the outside spaces like that firm and the Places you were talking about the classroom, the school, work, families, communities, and then also even within the world of people who stutter, the advocacy within the community. What are your thoughts about that?
- [33:11]
Maya Chupkov
Yeah, I think, like, one of the biggest missions and goals of proud stutter is really just inviting everyone into the space. It's not just for people who stutter. Like, yes, that's like my primary audience, of course, because, like, stuttering, it's such a personal experience. And I want to support people who stutter by telling stories where they feel less alone, less isolated. But it's also for people outside of, like, in the stuttering a community, but, like, don't necessarily have a stutter themselves because there's so many people who don't stutter that are doing so much amazing advocacy for the stuttering community. And there's so many speech therapists that are really transforming stuttering therapy in, like, such positive ways. And so it's a very open space and it's just. And I think that really goes a long way to just this whole creating safe spaces. Because it's like, the more open it is, the more people are willing to, like, the, like, the more change we'll see, right? Like, if we're just staying in our stuttering bubbles, like, we're not going to shift hearts and minds that we need to feel safe as, as people who stutter. And so, and I know, you know, like, everyone's on their own journey and not everyone feels that way. But for me, like, doing all this because, see, it's just like, oh, my God, like, the people that have reached out just from seeing an article like that or a radio segment on stuttering, and they're like, they've never thought of their stutter really in any sort of way other than just trying to hide it. Like, I've had so many people, whether it's just listening to an episode or seeing an article or seeing something where it's like, they're like, oh my, like this shift in them of their stutter. And it's like, that's what proud stutter is all about. And those are the moments that I want to happen for everyone, whether or not. And, you know, like, just because that moment happens for someone doesn't mean they're automatically ready to, like, accept their stutter and like, beyond proud stutter. But it's just like those moments that can, like, slowly, slowly help them get out of their shell. And like, there's one example, I asked this woman if she wanted to be on the show because she had seen my Instagram was like, oh, my God. Like, she just wanted to tell her story to me. And I thought it was so, so powerful. And I asked her, do you want to be on the show? And she said, you know what? I'm not ready yet. And I'm like, that's totally okay. It's okay. And so really proud. Stutter is all about those moments. It's not about getting. It's not about forcing people to tell their stories. It's just allowing people to slowly have this deeper relationship with their stutter.
- [37:06]
Uri Schneider
I watched over the course of COVID how many people would come to these online events and they would sometimes mute their faces and sometimes they mute their voices. And as you said, creating a space and at the outset saying, you're welcome here. And if you want to contribute in the chat, if you want to take yourself off mic or raise your hand, like, creating different ways for people to engage. And some people, by their nature, nothing to do with stuttering. Some people, by virtue of speech difference, are a little more apprehensive. The most beautiful thing is to see the people who are declaratively sending you a private message, like, don't call on me. Don't expect it. I'm not participating. And then it's like 10 minutes into the Q and A, and suddenly you see them show their face, and then they raise their hand, and then they. You hear their voice. So for you, Maya, what was that tipping point that you decided to share your voice and kick off this proud stutter podcast of yours?
- [38:07]
Maya Chupkov
Yeah, it was really. I was still at the job that I hated, and I wanted a creative outlet. And podcasting was just such an accessible thing because anyone could start a podcast. And so I was like, I just. I'm going to do this. Like, I'm going to put. I was making more money then, and so I was like, why not just start the My own projects with this money that I've been saving from this job I've hated into something that's, like, for me. And because I never really thought of myself as creative. And so. But then I realized it's. It's not that I'm not creative, but I just haven't been nurturing that part of myself for a long time. And so once I started nurturing, then I became more confident as an artist. And. And so I knew I wanted to do a podcast, but the. A stuttering. The idea of having it be a stuttering podcast actually came from my fiance, who was like, I think this would be a really powerful way to Shift the narrative around stuttering, that we've kind of talked about it a little bit and my fiance, he stuttered as a kid, but outgrew it. And so there was always that kind of connection there with us. And he's always been really curious about my stutter. And so as soon as he suggested that a light bulb went off and I'm like, okay, I'm doing this. And then I told Cynthia, who's my best friend, about it, and she's like, I would love to be your co host. And I was like, this is great. I have a friend that's going to be there. And then having that outside perspective with Cynthia, it just was perfect because it really set us apart from some of the other stuttering podcasts of having an ally kind of going on a journey with, with us. And so that, and then as soon as I started opening up about my stutter to, to just because, to, to people in my networks, because I knew if I was going to do a podcast around stuttering, it's just out there, so I might as well just start talking about it in my daily life too. And so it just kind of went from me being so hidden to literally like overnight just like being out there. And so there really isn't the best answer beyond that of like why the show started and that shift. I think I have to do a little more like internal thinking about that particular moment of when that shift happened and what that felt like. I haven't quite done that in eternal stuff yet, but. But yeah, now I'm like, yeah, I just feel like a different person. Really.
- [41:28]
Uri Schneider
Wow. What's striking me listening to you is that so many of these transitions, these page turning moments, they were so organic. And I think that, that one of the things you have to be careful of or that I'm always looking out for, for myself to be careful. And I want others to be thoughtful. It's like sometimes people cross a bridge and they start just telling people on the other side, like, come on, it's no big deal. Just jump in. It's gonna be the best thing ever. It's gonna be great for you. You just gotta get over your fear. You gotta, it's gonna be good. Come on. And while it may be true, you can't, you can't push someone into the deep end of the pool that you gotta get there themselves. And I think that's such a special tender thing. And the way you're doing it is just so, so classy, so delicate, so sweet. I was thinking about. Yeah, you're welcome. Think about your fiance is super crafty. Like, he gets to learn more about you, intimate sides of you, even when he's not with you. Like what a and then get to listen to them over and over. Like what a beautiful serenade he set you up for. It's good for you. You're growing and he gets to hear more and more about you. And you said it's a whole new you. It's like amazing. Just amazing. I was Can I share something I wrote after I went running?
- [42:51]
Maya Chupkov
Yes, please.
- [42:54]
Uri Schneider
So I as you see, I keep muting myself. I've got like incredible allergies that turn into a whooping cough and kind of like unwanted interruptions in my speech flow. Different than stuttering, but also pretty wicked. And definitely a big deal for me as I'm hosting this podcast. But the show must go on. There's what to be said. I'm not going to cancel. So this morning I woke up. I had one reason why yes, and it was greater than a thousand reasons why not to go running. So many reasons not to get out. Dust, pollen, allergies, wheezing, car coughing, the expected to do list waiting for me after the morning run. Scarcity of time, ticking clock. That discouraging voice in my head telling me like, who do you think you are to go running? 999 good reasons not to. And then just one good reason to go. That was all I needed to push it over the top. And I think if we can all find that, like why yes, yes, full body. Yes. That's the one thing we need that can transcend, overcome, tip the scales from the inside, out of all the doubt and all the hesitation. There could be 999 of those. Just need one. Heck yes. Full body.
- [44:12]
Maya Chupkov
I love that. I might actually borrow that, if you don't mind.
- [44:16]
Uri Schneider
Go for it. Totally. I wrote afterwards. I said, what's the yes? What was I saying yes to? I said running is always good for me afterwards. Physically, mentally, spiritually, creatively, socially. Even though I run alone, I'm more social when I come back and it's good for everyone around me. Like I have better energy that I bring less stress, more patience clarified focus, abundant mindset, generous spirit. Note to self, just keep listening to the one yes and don't pay too much attention. And I just think about it, as you said, to have an ally, a person who doesn't stutter to go along on the journey. I'm always preaching and trying to live and walk the walk. All of us have our setbacks, our Holdbacks, our fears, our things we're nervous about. And obviously, everyone comes to it with their own special fingerprint of their identity and their own stuff. But we all, all of us, allies, therapists, teachers, parents, can reveal the ways that we're confronting those things for ourselves. That's the most powerful thing we can do, trying to be a guide or a support to others. And on that note, you've been doing some things to broaden even beyond the boundaries of the podcasting arena. I kind of saw a video of you and Nina G. And Bailey and a whole, like, dream team on the steps of the San Francisco City Council. Something about, like, a city resolution. What's up with that? And where are you going with that?
- [45:55]
Maya Chupkov
Yes. So I am an advocate at heart, and I have a lot of experience in organizing and, like, electoral politics. And so I have a lot of friends that are super advisors in San Francisco. And so a local resolution, and I actually interned at City hall for about, like, six months, too, so I kind of knew how things worked there. And local resolutions are just such a powerful way to, like, spread awareness in your own community. And so when planning for National Stuttering Awareness Week, I thought, how cool would it be to follow the footsteps of all the amazing advocates that made National Stuttering Awareness Week happen nationally and do it right here in San Francisco? And so I. I had met a few of the Bay Area Stutters just through the podcast, and so I invited a few of them to. To join me, and we found a sponsor with Dean Preston, who is a supervisor. I wrote the resolution at myself, and we had the National Stuttering association look at it to make sure that I got all the facts right and stuff like that. And so. So, yeah, we wrote it and had a press conference, and just having so many people who stutter share a podium was so powerful and. And really proud. Stutter. The. The vision I see is to do more advocacy beyond the podcast. And I think one step, one natural step is to help other cities do that, the same thing. So I'm working with advocates in Denver right now on something, and then there's someone in Australia that wants to do it, too. So I think my goal for next year is to try to get, like, as many cities as possible to do the similar thing that I did, and to have everyone experience that.
- [48:31]
Uri Schneider
Wow. To have that ability, to have the execution, it was such a great moment, and it got such good exposure, and to think about replicating that and supporting more people doing that. I have some ideas. We could talk. You know, there's this transcending stuttering community has SLPs and people who stutter from around the world create a whole little challenge or side space, people that want to do this locally, and maybe we can replicate some of the initiatives and bring you into that space to activate.
- [49:02]
Maya Chupkov
Yeah, I would love that. And I made a toolkit that is on our website that anyone can, like, read through the different steps that go into it. So I would love to partner. Yeah. And I did have a question for you, if you don't mind.
- [49:21]
Uri Schneider
Oh, I'm getting nervous now.
- [49:24]
Maya Chupkov
I'm just so curious. Since you've, like, been part of the stuttering community for a long time, like, how have you seen it evolve since you first started your practice or just like your first intro to the stuttering community?
- [49:46]
Uri Schneider
Well, that's a really good question. So my story is longer and a little bit unique because I grew up the son of Dr. Phil Schneider, my dad, who I spoke to earlier today. And he's like the greatest of all time and dedicated to people who stutter and dedicated to the profession. So he's been a part of the stuttering community for decades. So growing up as his son, the first impressions I had were of, you know, we didn't. We really weren't into Marvel comics. Like, the superheroes in our lives were the people my dad got behind. The Mike Lebens of the world that got up and gave their valedictorian speeches, stuttering like a rock star, are standing in courtrooms as a Brooklyn DA and rising the ranks, people who lead organizations and movements. So my relationship with stuttering, and I'm proud to say, and I think this ties into something you talk about, the more kids hear different people's speech and different types of speech, the more tolerant and focused open they're going to be, the less jaw dropping there's going to be. So the idea of representation of stuttering in media and it just being something that people hear as opposed to, like, what. What just happened? What's that? You know, something like, freaky. So thankfully for my kids too, like, they're tuned in and they notice it without judgment. So for me, I grew up on that. And what I've seen evolve is really the mutual reaching out of the stuttering community to the professional community, professional community to the stuttering community. And I think we have to be very careful to preserve, nurture, and strengthen those bonds because the history is of a certain amount of distrust and a certain amount of misunderstanding between the two. And I think there are incredible opportunities to be had when we create you know, good alliances there. That's a great question. So I know you need to go shortly, but if you had one banner, Maya, you could rent out, you know, you could cover the Hollywood sign in LA with a banner. What would the banner say? What would be your banner that you'd like to put out there?
- [52:04]
Maya Chupkov
So my banner would be my sign off that I do every show is be proud and be you.
- [52:13]
Uri Schneider
Awesome. Awesome. So if you want to hear more, that was an easy one. It was just. It was like a layup. It was like a layup. If you want to hear more, check out Proud Stutter. It has been an amazing conversation, the first of many and some ideas we put out here, hopefully putting into movement, you know, into, into action. And Maya will share with me those links and those kits and so on. So we'll put those in the show notes. You can check those out at TranscendingX. There is proud Stutter amazing podcast. Subscribe, drop a review. Follow Maya everywhere at Proud stutter. Check out transcendingx.com you can join the community. It's a free community. See what it has to offer you. And I would say signing off, the goal is to make it easy, to make it easier for people who stutter and allies to just do really well real life. And that's what we're here to do. And it's an honor and a privilege to host these conversations. Thank you, Maya.
- [53:12]
Maya Chupkov
Thank you so much. This was awesome.
- [53:15]
Uri Schneider
Thank you. All right, signing off Facebook. Thanks for joining us. Share this if you enjoyed the conversation.
- [53:20]
Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode and you want more, check out transcendingx.com podcast. Sign up for our email. You'll get exclusive clips, invites to events and access to join our community and much more. If you just want to listen to more episodes, you can subscribe and drop a review on Apple, Google, Spotify. Wherever you listen to podcasts, your subscriptions and reviews help us reach more people. Wishing you a great day.
- [53:57]
Sam.